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J. Edgar Film
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markusp
Mar 27, 2012, 11:25:57 AM3/27/12
to
I've watched it through a couple of times now, and I'm wondering about
Eastwood's presentation of the phone call from Shanklin to Hoover. In the
film, we see Hoover listening intently to an audio recording that the
viewer is led to believe is JFK and Marilyn Monroe having sex. Hoover
accepts the phone call from Shanklin, who states, "...the media hasn't
reported it yet, I thought that you would want to know before the media
reports it."
Question #1: Did this phone call take place?
Question #2: Where was Shanklin during the shooting?
Question #3: Where did Shanklin's call originate from?
Question #4: Since some media were broadcasting live, and essentially the
murder was reported immediately, how could Shanklin assert that noone had
reported it yet?
In a subsequent scene, we see Hoover & Tolson at the racetrack, but this
scene opens w/ a medium closeup of the US flag at half-staff, then the
camera tilts down and pans right to show the racetrack. Eastwood clearly
was demonstrating Hoover's (apparent) disregard to further investigation,
while the flags were still at half-staff.
Question #5: How long were US flags expected to remain at half staff for
JFK's death?
Observation #1: Eastwood is a consumate director and actor. He likely
would not have the viewer see that flag at half-staff merely to add a
scene. I'd speculate it was deliberate to further demonstrate the callous
nature of Hoover. Even if the flags flew at half-staff for a month, this
depiction of Hoover at the track, and not actively investigating the death
of the POTUS, portrays the darkest side of his character.
FINAL QUESTION: Should the US leave Hoover's name on the FBI building?
~Mark
Eastwood's presentation of the phone call from Shanklin to Hoover. In the
film, we see Hoover listening intently to an audio recording that the
viewer is led to believe is JFK and Marilyn Monroe having sex. Hoover
accepts the phone call from Shanklin, who states, "...the media hasn't
reported it yet, I thought that you would want to know before the media
reports it."
Question #1: Did this phone call take place?
Question #2: Where was Shanklin during the shooting?
Question #3: Where did Shanklin's call originate from?
Question #4: Since some media were broadcasting live, and essentially the
murder was reported immediately, how could Shanklin assert that noone had
reported it yet?
In a subsequent scene, we see Hoover & Tolson at the racetrack, but this
scene opens w/ a medium closeup of the US flag at half-staff, then the
camera tilts down and pans right to show the racetrack. Eastwood clearly
was demonstrating Hoover's (apparent) disregard to further investigation,
while the flags were still at half-staff.
Question #5: How long were US flags expected to remain at half staff for
JFK's death?
Observation #1: Eastwood is a consumate director and actor. He likely
would not have the viewer see that flag at half-staff merely to add a
scene. I'd speculate it was deliberate to further demonstrate the callous
nature of Hoover. Even if the flags flew at half-staff for a month, this
depiction of Hoover at the track, and not actively investigating the death
of the POTUS, portrays the darkest side of his character.
FINAL QUESTION: Should the US leave Hoover's name on the FBI building?
~Mark
Gerry Simone
Mar 30, 2012, 1:21:00 AM3/30/12
to
Great post Mark.
I can't answer all your questions but even though I feel absolute power
corrupted Hoover absolutely, I can understand his disdain for communists
or their supporters, from his early experiences with communist acts of
terrorism in the continental U.S.
The Kennedys were going to get rid of Hoover. Hoover going to race track
was probably him just letting off some steam in that he didn't have to
worry about his job security anymore.
Hoover was a great delegator, and although I feel the FBI's investigation
was not what it should have been, he didn't have to be at his desk always
working.
How do I feel about Hoover's name on the FBI Building?
Once I felt it should be removed (there was an episode of 60 Minutes where
a guy they interviewed felt strongly about having it removed), however,
Hoover built the FBI into a dominant crime-fighting body with the
introduction of modern investigative techniques.
You can't erase all the earlier years of dedication to the FBI that he
committed his life too.
I sort of empathized about Hoover after watching the movie. He was only
human. He wasn't perfect. Perhaps what he didn't do in the investigation
was criminal, but he wasn't the only one covering up what they felt was
good for the nation perhaps?
"markusp" <marki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20728862.229.1332860532984.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu20...
I can't answer all your questions but even though I feel absolute power
corrupted Hoover absolutely, I can understand his disdain for communists
or their supporters, from his early experiences with communist acts of
terrorism in the continental U.S.
The Kennedys were going to get rid of Hoover. Hoover going to race track
was probably him just letting off some steam in that he didn't have to
worry about his job security anymore.
Hoover was a great delegator, and although I feel the FBI's investigation
was not what it should have been, he didn't have to be at his desk always
working.
How do I feel about Hoover's name on the FBI Building?
Once I felt it should be removed (there was an episode of 60 Minutes where
a guy they interviewed felt strongly about having it removed), however,
Hoover built the FBI into a dominant crime-fighting body with the
introduction of modern investigative techniques.
You can't erase all the earlier years of dedication to the FBI that he
committed his life too.
I sort of empathized about Hoover after watching the movie. He was only
human. He wasn't perfect. Perhaps what he didn't do in the investigation
was criminal, but he wasn't the only one covering up what they felt was
good for the nation perhaps?
"markusp" <marki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20728862.229.1332860532984.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu20...
Anthony Marsh
Mar 30, 2012, 3:21:40 PM3/30/12
to
On 3/30/2012 1:21 AM, Gerry Simone wrote:
> Great post Mark.
>
> I can't answer all your questions but even though I feel absolute power
> corrupted Hoover absolutely, I can understand his disdain for communists
> or their supporters, from his early experiences with communist acts of
> terrorism in the continental U.S.
>
Maybe you are thinking of Anarchists, not Communists. The two are not
> Great post Mark.
>
> I can't answer all your questions but even though I feel absolute power
> corrupted Hoover absolutely, I can understand his disdain for communists
> or their supporters, from his early experiences with communist acts of
> terrorism in the continental U.S.
>
exactly the same.
> The Kennedys were going to get rid of Hoover. Hoover going to race track
> was probably him just letting off some steam in that he didn't have to
> worry about his job security anymore.
>
> Hoover was a great delegator, and although I feel the FBI's investigation
> was not what it should have been, he didn't have to be at his desk always
> working.
Castro and if that ever came out it would mean WWIII. So he ordered a
cover-up not investigation. He had no way to investigate inside Cuba.
Although he did have a double agent who got close to Castro.
>
> How do I feel about Hoover's name on the FBI Building?
>
> Once I felt it should be removed (there was an episode of 60 Minutes where
> a guy they interviewed felt strongly about having it removed), however,
> Hoover built the FBI into a dominant crime-fighting body with the
> introduction of modern investigative techniques.
>
> You can't erase all the earlier years of dedication to the FBI that he
> committed his life too.
>
>
> I sort of empathized about Hoover after watching the movie. He was only
> human. He wasn't perfect. Perhaps what he didn't do in the investigation
> was criminal, but he wasn't the only one covering up what they felt was
> good for the nation perhaps?
>
>
> "markusp"<marki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:20728862.229.1332860532984.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu20...
> I've watched it through a couple of times now, and I'm wondering about
> Eastwood's presentation of the phone call from Shanklin to Hoover. In the
> film, we see Hoover listening intently to an audio recording that the
> viewer is led to believe is JFK and Marilyn Monroe having sex. Hoover
> accepts the phone call from Shanklin, who states, "...the media hasn't
> reported it yet, I thought that you would want to know before the media
> reports it."
>
> Question #1: Did this phone call take place?
> Question #2: Where was Shanklin during the shooting?
> Question #3: Where did Shanklin's call originate from?
> Question #4: Since some media were broadcasting live, and essentially the
> murder was reported immediately, how could Shanklin assert that noone had
> reported it yet?
>
James K. Olmstead
Mar 30, 2012, 3:27:30 PM3/30/12
to
"Gerry Simone" <newdec...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f74...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> Great post Mark.
>
> I can't answer all your questions but even though I feel absolute power
> corrupted Hoover absolutely, I can understand his disdain for communists
> or their supporters, from his early experiences with communist acts of
> terrorism in the continental U.S.
>
> The Kennedys were going to get rid of Hoover. Hoover going to race track
> was probably him just letting off some steam in that he didn't have to
> worry about his job security anymore.
>
> Hoover was a great delegator, and although I feel the FBI's investigation
> was not what it should have been, he didn't have to be at his desk always
> working.
>
> How do I feel about Hoover's name on the FBI Building?
>
> Once I felt it should be removed (there was an episode of 60 Minutes where
> a guy they interviewed felt strongly about having it removed), however,
> Hoover built the FBI into a dominant crime-fighting body with the
> introduction of modern investigative techniques.
>
> You can't erase all the earlier years of dedication to the FBI that he
> committed his life too.
>
>
> I sort of empathized about Hoover after watching the movie. He was only
> human. He wasn't perfect. Perhaps what he didn't do in the investigation
> was criminal, but he wasn't the only one covering up what they felt was
> good for the nation perhaps?
>
Good comments....Hoover got his start under Palmer, who was just as hated
>
> I can't answer all your questions but even though I feel absolute power
> corrupted Hoover absolutely, I can understand his disdain for communists
> or their supporters, from his early experiences with communist acts of
> terrorism in the continental U.S.
>
> The Kennedys were going to get rid of Hoover. Hoover going to race track
> was probably him just letting off some steam in that he didn't have to
> worry about his job security anymore.
>
> Hoover was a great delegator, and although I feel the FBI's investigation
> was not what it should have been, he didn't have to be at his desk always
> working.
>
> How do I feel about Hoover's name on the FBI Building?
>
> Once I felt it should be removed (there was an episode of 60 Minutes where
> a guy they interviewed felt strongly about having it removed), however,
> Hoover built the FBI into a dominant crime-fighting body with the
> introduction of modern investigative techniques.
>
> You can't erase all the earlier years of dedication to the FBI that he
> committed his life too.
>
>
> I sort of empathized about Hoover after watching the movie. He was only
> human. He wasn't perfect. Perhaps what he didn't do in the investigation
> was criminal, but he wasn't the only one covering up what they felt was
> good for the nation perhaps?
>
then as JEH was during his leadership. We know of some of the attempts on
Palmer...but little on the attempts on JEH life. I had hopes some of that
would
have come out in the movie.
>
> "markusp" <marki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:20728862.229.1332860532984.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu20...
> I've watched it through a couple of times now, and I'm wondering about
> Eastwood's presentation of the phone call from Shanklin to Hoover. In the
> film, we see Hoover listening intently to an audio recording that the
> viewer is led to believe is JFK and Marilyn Monroe having sex. Hoover
> accepts the phone call from Shanklin, who states, "...the media hasn't
> reported it yet, I thought that you would want to know before the media
> reports it."
>
> Question #1: Did this phone call take place?
> Question #2: Where was Shanklin during the shooting?
> Question #3: Where did Shanklin's call originate from?
> Question #4: Since some media were broadcasting live, and essentially the
> murder was reported immediately, how could Shanklin assert that noone had
> reported it yet?
>
Even if the call did not "actually" take place as presented by CE, it served
> "markusp" <marki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:20728862.229.1332860532984.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu20...
> I've watched it through a couple of times now, and I'm wondering about
> Eastwood's presentation of the phone call from Shanklin to Hoover. In the
> film, we see Hoover listening intently to an audio recording that the
> viewer is led to believe is JFK and Marilyn Monroe having sex. Hoover
> accepts the phone call from Shanklin, who states, "...the media hasn't
> reported it yet, I thought that you would want to know before the media
> reports it."
>
> Question #1: Did this phone call take place?
> Question #2: Where was Shanklin during the shooting?
> Question #3: Where did Shanklin's call originate from?
> Question #4: Since some media were broadcasting live, and essentially the
> murder was reported immediately, how could Shanklin assert that noone had
> reported it yet?
>
to illustrate
what was going on, which I think was CE's goal. Both CE and Leo did a great
job
in my opinion. I have all of Eastwoods work, except for some TV episodes in
his
early days as a TV cowboy. Leo is one of two of the greatest child
stars....thru hard work, Ron Howard being the other. Although Leo's role as
JEH does
not surpass Gilbert Grape, I feel I did see JEH in some angles.
> In a subsequent scene, we see Hoover & Tolson at the racetrack, but this
> scene opens w/ a medium closeup of the US flag at half-staff, then the
> camera tilts down and pans right to show the racetrack. Eastwood clearly
> was demonstrating Hoover's (apparent) disregard to further investigation,
> while the flags were still at half-staff.
>
> Question #5: How long were US flags expected to remain at half staff for
> JFK's death?
Congress of the United States.
The following sets forth the existing rules, customs and etiquette
pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of
America.
The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the
President or a former President; ten days from the death of a Vice
President, the Chief of Justice or a retired Chief of Justice of the United
States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of
death until Interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court; a
Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President,
or the Governor of the State, territory or possession; and on the day of
death and the following day for a member of congress. As used in this
subsection,
1. The term "half-staff" means the position of the flag when it is
one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;
2. The term "executive or military department' means any agency listed
under Sections 101 and 102 of Title 5, United States Code; and
3. The term "Member of Congress" means Senator, a Representative, a
Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.
>
> Observation #1: Eastwood is a consumate director and actor. He likely
> would not have the viewer see that flag at half-staff merely to add a
> scene. I'd speculate it was deliberate to further demonstrate the callous
> nature of Hoover. Even if the flags flew at half-staff for a month, this
> depiction of Hoover at the track, and not actively investigating the death
> of the POTUS, portrays the darkest side of his character.
>
the FBI
while he was working for Palmer....the best example was his goal against
Emma Goldman.
> FINAL QUESTION: Should the US leave Hoover's name on the FBI building?
> ~Mark
There has been too much of that imo.
jko
>
>
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