Ed. Forum thread on Michael Kurtz

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Dave Reitzes

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Jul 12, 2010, 9:21:03 AM7/12/10
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Interesting thread started by Jim DiEugenio, a little too unwieldy to
cut and paste:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16155

John Canal

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Jul 12, 2010, 11:13:27 AM7/12/10
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In article <6503fd49-65d5-46ea...@d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Dave Reitzes says...

>
>Interesting thread started by Jim DiEugenio, a little too unwieldy to
>cut and paste:
>
>http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16155

????????????

Ok, so Kurtz supposedly replied, "..that the official autopsy report mentioned
only a small entrane wound in the rear of the skull..."

Really?

That begs the question, "Did Kurtz ever read the autopsy report?" The report
clearly says that the large wound extended somewhat into the occiptal...and they
weren't referring to the entry.

Moreover, if Kurtz wanted to do some more reading for extra credit, he might
have found what Humes said to Specter important. Humes testified that they saw a
severely lacerated flocculus cerebri. Now, because the flocculus is part of the
cerebellum, Humes was in effect telling the world that there was an opening in
JFK's rear skull down near the EOP. [2WCH, p. 355].

John Canal


--
John Canal
jca...@webtv.net

j leyden

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Jul 12, 2010, 11:15:07 AM7/12/10
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Kurtz is the author of one of my favorite bits of JFK assn. nonsense.
In
his "Crime of the Century," he said, "Common sense should be
sufficient to explain that anyone taking the risk of killing the
President would take the precautions necessary to avoid leaving
physical evidence of his guilt." He then argued that the lack of
evidence on the Grassy Knoll proved a gunman had been there whereas
the "plethora of evidence" on the TSBD sixth floor indicated that
Oswald had not been there. It's called "CT Think" and it's incurable.

JGL

Bill Kelly

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Jul 14, 2010, 8:46:12 AM7/14/10
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Hi,

That makes sense to me. Why would Oswald buy a rifle through the mail
using an alias for which he has created a fake ID and a paper trail
right to himself when he could have walked into any department store,
sporting goods or gun shop and bought one with cash and no paper
trail?

That's not how a CT thinks, that's common sense.

At least you read Kurtz's book.

I haven't read Prof. Kurtz's book yet, but I understand that he was in
New Orleans in the summer of '63 and saw Oswald and Bannister together
at Mancuso's Restaurant, where others also saw them together.

I was wondering if anyone knows if the owners of this restaurant is
related to Gordon Novel's girlfriend Marlene Mancuso, whose mug shot
is among the HSCA photo files, and who accompanied the Yahoos on the
Huma Bunker mission. She is a babe.

Or don't you try to answer questions here, and only badmouth
Conspiracy Theorists?

BK

j leyden

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Jul 14, 2010, 12:42:48 PM7/14/10
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On Jul 14, 8:46 am, Bill Kelly <billkel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I haven't read Prof. Kurtz's book yet, but I understand that he was in
> New Orleans in the summer of '63 and saw Oswald and Bannister together
> at Mancuso's Restaurant, where others also saw them together

Oh Boy! In 1980 Kurtz wrote an article on Oswald in New Orleans but never
mentioned any personal sightings. Ditto for his 1982 book, Crime of the
Century. Then in 1993 for the 30th anniversary, of the assassination, his
memory significantly improved and he told "Frontline" that he had seen LHO
& Banister together in Mancusco's restaurant. He increased that to two
sightings -- Mancusco's & LSU -- in an updated version of his book. Said
he actually sat down with them in Mancusco's and chatted, apparently.
Don't these memory lapses make you just a tad suspicious that someone (no
names) is not telling the truth here?

JGL

Anthony Marsh

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Jul 14, 2010, 1:12:58 PM7/14/10
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On 7/14/2010 8:46 AM, Bill Kelly wrote:
> On Jul 12, 8:15 am, j leyden<JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 12, 9:21 am, Dave Reitzes<dreit...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting thread started by Jim DiEugenio, a little too unwieldy to
>>> cut and paste:
>>
>>> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16155
>>
>> Kurtz is the author of one of my favorite bits of JFK assn. nonsense.
>> In
>> his "Crime of the Century," he said, "Common sense should be
>> sufficient to explain that anyone taking the risk of killing the
>> President would take the precautions necessary to avoid leaving
>> physical evidence of his guilt." He then argued that the lack of
>> evidence on the Grassy Knoll proved a gunman had been there whereas
>> the "plethora of evidence" on the TSBD sixth floor indicated that
>> Oswald had not been there. It's called "CT Think" and it's incurable.
>>
>> JGL
>
> Hi,
>
> That makes sense to me. Why would Oswald buy a rifle through the mail
> using an alias for which he has created a fake ID and a paper trail
> right to himself when he could have walked into any department store,
> sporting goods or gun shop and bought one with cash and no paper
> trail?
>

Because he was paranoid about the FBI following him around and the clerk
could identify him as the person who bought a Mannlicher-Carcano.

Jean Davison

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Jul 14, 2010, 11:56:07 PM7/14/10
to jjdavi...@yahoo.com
On Jul 14, 7:46 am, Bill Kelly <billkel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 12, 8:15 am, j leyden <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 12, 9:21 am, Dave Reitzes <dreit...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Interesting thread started by Jim DiEugenio, a little too unwieldy to
> > > cut and paste:
>
> > >http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16155
>
> > Kurtz is the author of one of my favorite bits of JFK assn. nonsense.
> > In
> > his "Crime of the Century," he said, "Common sense should be
> > sufficient to explain that anyone taking the risk of killing the
> > President would take the precautions necessary to avoid leaving
> > physical evidence of his guilt."  He then argued that the lack of
> > evidence on the Grassy Knoll proved a gunman had been there whereas
> > the "plethora of evidence" on the TSBD sixth floor indicated that
> > Oswald had not been there. It's called "CT Think" and it's incurable.
>
> > JGL
>
> Hi,
>
> That makes sense to me. Why would Oswald buy a rifle through the mail
> using an alias for which he has created a fake ID and a paper trail
> right to himself when he could have walked into any department store,
> sporting goods or gun shop and bought one with cash and no paper
> trail?
>
<snip>

I've seen it stated many times that Oswald could've bought a rifle in
Dallas and left no paper trail. Who first made this claim and what is it
based on, I wonder? Anybody know?

I recently ran across this affidavit:

QUOTE
>>>>
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
STATE OF TEXAS,
County of Dallas, ss:

I, Albert C. Yeargan. Jr. 1922 Mayflower Drive, Dallas, Texas, being
duly sworn say:

1. I was the Sporting Goods Department Manager at the H. L. Green
Company, 1623 Main Street, Dallas. Texas. from the Summer of 1963
until March 13, 1964. I am now employed by Smitty's Sporting Goods,
111 West Jefferson Avenue, Dallas, Texas.

2. When I worked for the H. L. Green Company, it had in stock and was
offering for sale, a large number of Italian 6.5 mm rifles that were
surpluses from World War II.

3. On November 22, 1963, FBI Agents, Secret Service Agents, and I
examined all sales records and receipt records concerning Italian 6.5
mm rifles.

4. The records showed that the H. L. Green Company obtained its supply
of these Italian 6.5 mm rifles from the Crescent Firearms Company in
New York City.

5. A review of all of the records failed to reflect any record of sale
of a 6.5 mm rifle with the Serial Number C2766.

6. As far as I know, the H. L. Green Company was at that time the only
Company in Dallas that handled any quantity of these Italian 6.5 mm
rifles.

Signed the 21st day of July 1964.
(S) Albert C. Yeargan, Jr.,
ALBERT C. YEARGAN. Jr.
>>>>
UNQUOTE

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/yeargan.htm

Jean

j leyden

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Jul 15, 2010, 12:32:29 AM7/15/10
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On Jul 14, 1:12 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Because he was paranoid about the FBI following him around and the clerk
> could identify him as the person who bought a Mannlicher-Carcano.
>

Given Oswald's reputation for stinginess, I suspect price had a lot to do
with it. He purchased the Mannlicher-Carcano for $21.45 and that included
a scope along for postage and handling. I don't know what a decent
hunting rifle went for in 1963 at, say, Sears & Roebuck but I'm sure it
was more than that.

JGL

Anthony Marsh

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Jul 15, 2010, 8:15:16 AM7/15/10
to
> hunting rifle went for in 1963 at, say, Sears& Roebuck but I'm sure it
> was more than that.
>

I don't suppose you could look at ads from local newspapers for that
time? Nah, that would be too much like research. More fun to guess.


> JGL


mucher1

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Jul 15, 2010, 8:16:03 AM7/15/10
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Here's a similar example of CT thinking. Joachim Joesten in "Oswald:
The Truth", pp.328-9.

(Joesten on)

It is one thing for a violent individual, aroused to white rage by the
sight of a hated office-holder, to dash forward from a crowd,
brandishing a knife or whipping out a hidden pistol. Psychopaths thus
do act on impulse and then is usually arrested or killed on the spot.
So are authentic heroes who bravely sacrifice their lives for a cause
and who proclaim in dying that they have done their duty.

It is something altogether different to conceive a plan, several days
ahead of the prospective victim's arrival in town, for killing him in
an ambush that requires elaborate preparations and precautions.

Why, a whole family of Oswalds could not have carried out the
assassination of November 22, 1963, for the very simple and very good
reason that such an ambush could not possibly have succeeded without
somebody in charge of security looking the other way at the critical
moment and somebody else acting as a lookout to espy the approach of
potential interlopers.

All one really has to do in order to realize the absolute
impossibility for Oswald, acting alone, to have conceived, much less
carried out, the assassination, is to consider the layout of the sixth
floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

We have before us an enormously large storage room, extending the
whole length and width of the building, about ninety feet square.
Moreover, this room is as hard to survey as a dense forest, for it is
filled from end to end with book cases stacked in places eight feet or
more high.

There are three different means of access to it: two freight elevators
and an L-shaped stairway.

Now imagine Lee H. Oswald, all by himself, plotting an ambush to be
executed from the south-east corner of that vast hall, an ambush which
involved the building of a sniper's nest by stacking rows of book
cases near the window, and also the assembling of a disassembled
rifle.

How could he possibly find an answer to the ever-present and
overwhelming problem:

What do I do, if --- ?
If somebody rides up in one elevator, or the other?
Or just walks up the stairway?
Or has been hiding behind a row of cartons and suddenly dashes
forward?

The very least, then, Oswald would have needed to have a fighting
chance of success, would have been a competent lookout, or even two.
But the Commission is quite certain that Oswald had no accomplices and
it therefore credits him, implicitly, with the fantastic performance
of keeping an eye on two elevators and a stairway from a distance of
about ninety feet, across and around man-high stacks of boxes, while
busily lugging boxes to the window, putting his rifle together and
watching the arrival of the motorcade. Superman couldn't have done it
- and Oswald was far from being a superman.

(Joesten off)

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