Double Trouble
John McAdams
two of something. You know:
1. Two Oswalds.
2. Two Minox cameras.
3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
Can anybody think of other examples?
.John
--
Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Dave Reitzes
>
>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>two of something. You know:
>
>1. Two Oswalds.
>
>2. Two Minox cameras.
>
>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
>Can anybody think of other examples?
>
>.John
1. Two caskets (Lifton)
2. Two sets of autopsy photos (Livingstone, et al)
3. Two sets of wounds (Dallas vs. Bethesda) (Lifton, et al)
The most extreme "two" theory must be that of Harrison Livingstone, who
writes: "It is my opinion that there are two sets of evidence in the
assassination of John Kennedy, and that evidence has undergone a process
of continuing evolution throughout the years. . . . I think that there are
two versions of the Bronson film, two Zapruder films, two sets of autopsy
pictures, two scoustical tapes, and maybe more. Mistakes might have been
made by the forgers, but the overall purpose was as much to confuse the
evidence as to falsify it. We know that law enforcement in this case often
wrote two sets of documents -- affidavits that say exactly opposite things
from the same witness. They were prepared for all contingencies."
(*Killing the Truth,* p. 312.)
There are also a few cases where two (or more) versions of the same
evidence have led to some confusion. For example, the various transcripts
of the DPD radio tapes (cf. Sylvia Meagher's treatment of why J. D. Tippit
was in Oak Cliff), and the two contradictory FBI evidence sheets with
different counts of spent rounds (originally reported in Shaw & Harris's
*Cover-Up,* pp. 159-60; also Twyman, *Bloody Treason,* pp. 112-13).
Dave
Perpetual Starlight: Original fiction, music and more
http://www.reitzes.com
JFK Online: John F. Kennedy assassination
http://www.jfk-online.com
Peter Fokes
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:3d7abb08...@news.newsguy.com...
> I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
> two of something. You know:
>
> 1. Two Oswalds.
>
> 2. Two Minox cameras.
>
> 3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
> 4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
> of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
> LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
> Can anybody think of other examples?
Two wallets?
Peter F
Herbert Blenner
>From: john.m...@marquette.edu (John McAdams)
>Date: 9/7/02 10:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3d7abb08...@news.newsguy.com>
>
>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>two of something. You know:
>
>1. Two Oswalds.
>
>2. Two Minox cameras.
>
>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
>Can anybody think of other examples?
>
Herbert
Gordon Campbell
LOL....if there are "two lone nuts"....then they are no longer "lone" and
then you have a conspiracy!!!
Kenneth A. Rahn
"Gordon Campbell" <gcam...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:fxOe9.36132$WJ3.8...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> "You forget the two lone nuts, Oswald and Ruby"
>
> LOL....if there are "two lone nuts"....then they are no longer "lone" and
> then you have a conspiracy!!!
May I point out the obvious that it is only a conspiracy if they worked
together?
Ken Rahn
Peter Fokes
"Kenneth A. Rahn" <kr...@uri.edu> wrote in message
news:3d7c...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Incorrect.
Someone could have known both Ruby and Oswald, and yet never told Oswald
or Ruby that he knew both.
In such a case, Ruby and Oswald would not be "working" together knowingly.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
John McAdams
<gcam...@adelphia.net> wrote:
Only if the two lone nuts are acting in concert.
Kenneth A. Rahn
"Peter Fokes" <pfo...@rogers.com> wrote in message
The problem with your answer is that it violates the "lone" tenet in
Gordon's message. It also brings in a third person, which we weren't
talking about, either.
Ken Rahn
Peter Fokes
Gordon's lighthearted response seemed to impose no "tenets" at all.
Surely if they are "no longer lone", as Gordon states, they they are
together, right?
So Gordon's original comment implies the answer you pose in your question.
You obviously missed his double entendre.
Now perhaps you can refocus your attention on what Gordon was really saying,
and what "we" were talking about.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
>
> Ken Rahn
>
>
>
>
John McAdams
John McAdams
>>From: john.m...@marquette.edu (John McAdams)
>>
>>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>>two of something. You know:
>>
>>1. Two Oswalds.
>>
>>2. Two Minox cameras.
>>
>>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>>
>>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>>
>>Can anybody think of other examples?
>>
>>.John
>
>
>1. Two caskets (Lifton)
>
That's a good one.
>2. Two sets of autopsy photos (Livingstone, et al)
>
Yep.
>3. Two sets of wounds (Dallas vs. Bethesda) (Lifton, et al)
>
I should be able to work that in, but probably not separately from
"two caskets" and "two sets of wounds."
>The most extreme "two" theory must be that of Harrison Livingstone, who
>writes: "It is my opinion that there are two sets of evidence in the
>assassination of John Kennedy, and that evidence has undergone a process
>of continuing evolution throughout the years. . . . I think that there are
>two versions of the Bronson film, two Zapruder films, two sets of autopsy
>pictures, two scoustical tapes, and maybe more. Mistakes might have been
>made by the forgers, but the overall purpose was as much to confuse the
>evidence as to falsify it. We know that law enforcement in this case often
>wrote two sets of documents -- affidavits that say exactly opposite things
>from the same witness. They were prepared for all contingencies."
>(*Killing the Truth,* p. 312.)
>
That's a quote I most certainly will use.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Dave Reitzes
>From: john.m...@marquette.edu (John McAdams)
>Date: 9/9/02 3:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3d7cf88c....@news.alt.net>
Typo alert: "scoustical" should have been "acoustical," of course.
Dave
DRoberdeau
>
>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>two of something. You know:
>
>1. Two Oswalds.
>
>2. Two Minox cameras.
>
>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
>Can anybody think of other examples?
....Good Day John........the 2 highest elected officials of the United States
riding close to each other, each in an open convertible, within the same
motorcade....
....2 USPS mail boxes- each of which had its vital records destroyed against
USPS reg.'s, and, destroyed after being linked to OSWALD/HIDELL....
....2 armed assassins witnessed either together or apart on TSBD-6th floor by
several witnesses....
....2 street turns within DP where the SS did not, according to SS regulations,
adequately protect the President....
....2 headturns by ROSEMARY WILLIS- the first, slower, headturn to her right
circa Zf-190 facing the west side of TSBD, the second, faster, headsnap to her
left facing ZAPRUDER/GK from Zf-214 to 217....
....2 SSA's whom did not leave the SS-followup Cadillac "Queen Mary" after
ROBERTS yelled "HOLD!" during the attack....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that PHIL WILLIS said he heard after
capturing his blast-induced photo at Zf-202....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that HICKEY heard AFTER he turned back
forward....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that BRONSON said he heard after
capturing his blast-induced photo at Zf-229....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that NELLIE CONNALLY heard after first
seeing the President with his hands raised and elbows splayed....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that SSA TAYLOR said he heard after
ALTGENS@Zf-255 was captured....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that SSA HILL said he heard after
ALTGENS@Zf-255 was captured, after he looked leftward away from
TUM/President....
....2 headsnaps by GREER towards the President near/during the end of the
attack....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that WWII D-Day veteran CHARLES BREHM
heard at the end of the attack, the first of which blew apart the President's
head....
....2 audible blasts &/or bow shockwaves that HUDSON, and others, heard at the
end of the attack, the first of which blew apart the President's head....
....2" or so that the President's head appears to move limo-forward from Zf-312
to Zf-313....
....2 seconds (well, probably more like 4 seconds) that CLINT HILL was too late
to place himself "In the Line of Fire"....
....2 different TSBD entrances/exits that at least 1 assassin is
theorized/witnessed to have exited out of each after the attack....
....2 pairs of children who lost their Father.... (KENNEDY & TIPPIT- i think
TIPPIT had 2 children).... (well, actually, 3 pairs of children who lost their
Father, including OSWALD)
Don
CV-67, "Big John," USS John F. Kennedy Plank Walker
Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly
http://members.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg
"....He (EUINS) was telling the motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man
lean out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle. He was telling this to the
officer and the officer took him over and put him in a squad car. By that time,
motorcycle officers were arriving, homicide officers were arriving and I went
over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and he said "Yes,
sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said, "It was a colored man." I
said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He said, "Yes, sir"...."
----01APR63 warrenatti testimony of JAMES ROBERT UNDERWOOD discussing his
conversation with AMOS EUINS minutes after the attack.
"Another man told him he seen a man run out the back. .... Yes, sir. He said
the man had--he said he had kind of bald spot on his head. And he said the man
come back there. .... I got behind there. And then I watched, he did fire
again (3rd shot). Then he started looking down towards my way, and then he
fired again (4th shot). .... No, sir; I told the man that I could see a white
spot on his head, but I didn't actually say it was a white man. I said I
couldn't tell. But I saw a white spot in his head."
----AMOS EUINS during his warrenatti testimony
>
>.John
John McAdams
Good heavens, Don! I think you have something here that surpasses the
"Kennedy/Lincoln coincidences" list.
twalsh
> I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
> two of something. You know:
>
> 1. Two Oswalds.
>
> 2. Two Minox cameras.
>
> 3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
> 4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
> of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
> LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
> Can anybody think of other examples?
>
> .John
If Beverly Oliver is believed there must be two of the FBI agent, I
can't remember his name, who picked up her camera and film because he
had to be in New Orleans and Dallas at the same time.
Tony Szamboti
> two of something. You know:
>
> 1. Two Oswalds.
>
> 2. Two Minox cameras.
>
> 3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
> 4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
> of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
> LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
> Can anybody think of other examples?
Two federal government investigations of the assassination, the Warren
Commission and the HSCA.
Two incorrect theories of the reason for the headsnap being caused by
something other than a shot from the front. That is neuromuscular spasm and
jet effect.
Tony Szamboti
Martha
Beverly Oliver's BL and John McAdam's BL.:)
Martha
"twalsh" <tuchd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:763beff9.02091...@posting.google.com...
John McAdams
McAdams) wrote:
>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>two of something. You know:
>
>1. Two Oswalds.
>
>2. Two Minox cameras.
>
>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>
>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>
>Can anybody think of other examples?
>
OK, my page on this is up. See:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/double.htm
For now, no "two wallets" entry, but only because I haven't studied up
on that enough myself.
Jean Davison has suggested "two bullets" (CE 399 and the "pointed
bullet" that Tink Thompson got Tomlinson to ID).
Constructive criticism is of course welcome, and you are quite free to
post *other* criticism if you want. :-)
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Dave Reitzes
>
>On Sun, 08 Sep 2002 02:54:23 GMT, john.m...@marquette.edu (John
>McAdams) wrote:
>
>>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>>two of something. You know:
>>
>>1. Two Oswalds.
>>
>>2. Two Minox cameras.
>>
>>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>>
>>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>>
>>Can anybody think of other examples?
>>
>
>OK, my page on this is up. See:
>
>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/double.htm
>
>For now, no "two wallets" entry, but only because I haven't studied up
>on that enough myself.
>
>Jean Davison has suggested "two bullets" (CE 399 and the "pointed
>bullet" that Tink Thompson got Tomlinson to ID).
Too obscure, I think.
>Constructive criticism is of course welcome, and you are quite free to
>post *other* criticism if you want. :-)
>
>.John
You might want to consider cutting the La Fontaine rifle item, which is
pretty obscure.
But if you decide to keep it, you might try to work in this quote from a
Russ Burr a.a.jfk post of September 9, 2000:
(quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Actually John, Ellsworth told me he was in on the first search and was
allowed in because he had a good working relationship with the DPD. When I
read him the section you refer to above he was laughing hysterically. He
told me he didn't understand how so called writers could distort what he
said and than try and pass it off as the truth. He said that the only one
rifle was found that day and it was Oswald's M/C. And he said it was found
on the 6th floor in the NW part of the floor, near the staircase...which
is where it was found.
(end quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
One thing worth noting in your Minox item is that Michael Paine says he
received his Minox back from the Feds (but no longer has it), yet
SOMEBODY's Minox camera remains in the National Archives's JFK collection.
(Paine's memory could be mistaken, of course.)
The "two wallets" issue may be worth adding, although it's not all that
well known. It *is* a good example of what you're out to demonstrate,
though. (But don't overlook the fact that film footage at the crime scene
shows the detectives examining SOMEBODY's wallet.)
The claim of the "other wallet" was first made in James Hosty's book, and
covered thoroughly in Dale Myers's *With Malice.*
GMcNally
Dave,
> One thing worth noting in your Minox item is that Michael Paine says he
> received his Minox back from the Feds (but no longer has it), yet
> SOMEBODY's Minox camera remains in the National Archives's JFK collection.
> (Paine's memory could be mistaken, of course.)
Ruth Paine petitioned the FBI to return the items taken, as a matter
of principle. The FBI sent back some of what they took - and itemized
the items on an inventory sheet. The items included many of the camera
accessories, but, not the camera itself. That remains in the Archives.
Michael Paine told me he had no interest in the items as the camera
hadn't worked for years and he had moved on to others, so, he put the
items in a drawer he had in a building he used as a workshop.
This building was subsequently broken into and random items taken,
including the drawer that the camera accessories was stored in.
Michael told me that the shop was in a bad area and burglaries were
common.
Jerry
John McAdams
>Speaking of Beverly Oliver - How about "two Babushka ladies"?
>Beverly Oliver's BL and John McAdam's BL.:)
>
Sounds like one BL to me. :-)
John McAdams
>>From: john.m...@marquette.edu (John McAdams)
>>
>>On Sun, 08 Sep 2002 02:54:23 GMT, john.m...@marquette.edu (John
>>McAdams) wrote:
>>
>>>I'm working on a little web page about conspiracy theories involving
>>>two of something. You know:
>>>
>>>1. Two Oswalds.
>>>
>>>2. Two Minox cameras.
>>>
>>>3. Two brains (ala ARRB)
>>>
>>>4. Two rifles in the Depository (there is actually a generic version
>>>of this, plus the Groden version based on the Mentasana film, and the
>>>LaFontaine version based on AFT agent Frank Ellsworth).
>>>
>>>Can anybody think of other examples?
>>>
>>
>>OK, my page on this is up. See:
>>
>>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/double.htm
>>
>>For now, no "two wallets" entry, but only because I haven't studied up
>>on that enough myself.
>>
>>Jean Davison has suggested "two bullets" (CE 399 and the "pointed
>>bullet" that Tink Thompson got Tomlinson to ID).
>
>
>Too obscure, I think.
>
Dunno. I have seen it repeated with some frequency.
But your judgment on this one may prevail out of inertia. :-)
>
>>Constructive criticism is of course welcome, and you are quite free to
>>post *other* criticism if you want. :-)
>>
>>.John
>
>
>You might want to consider cutting the La Fontaine rifle item, which is
>pretty obscure.
>
I think it's useful just to show how *many* wacky theories one can
produce.
>But if you decide to keep it, you might try to work in this quote from a
>Russ Burr a.a.jfk post of September 9, 2000:
>
>
>(quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>Actually John, Ellsworth told me he was in on the first search and was
>allowed in because he had a good working relationship with the DPD. When I
>read him the section you refer to above he was laughing hysterically. He
>told me he didn't understand how so called writers could distort what he
>said and than try and pass it off as the truth. He said that the only one
>rifle was found that day and it was Oswald's M/C. And he said it was found
>on the 6th floor in the NW part of the floor, near the staircase...which
>is where it was found.
>
>(end quote) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
The Lafs cite a Feb. 1993 "phone interview" on this. I'm actually
inclined to believe them. My guess is that when he talked to Russ he
knew he had said something wild, and changed his story.
I don't trust the Lafs at all, but this is such an oddball thing so
removed for their pet theories that I doubt they would just make it
up.
In the context of the page, however, it's not actually critical
whether he *gave* a wild account, or whether the LaFontaines
misreported a wild account.
>One thing worth noting in your Minox item is that Michael Paine says he
>received his Minox back from the Feds (but no longer has it), yet
>SOMEBODY's Minox camera remains in the National Archives's JFK collection.
>(Paine's memory could be mistaken, of course.)
>
My understanding is that he first said this, and then recanted.
In writing something like this, it's important to keep the narrative
flowing. I want everything to be literally true, and not to be
misleading, but I often have to omit details. If the issue were
Paine's absolute reliability, it would be necessary to discuss this.
>The "two wallets" issue may be worth adding, although it's not all that
>well known. It *is* a good example of what you're out to demonstrate,
>though. (But don't overlook the fact that film footage at the crime scene
>shows the detectives examining SOMEBODY's wallet.)
>
>The claim of the "other wallet" was first made in James Hosty's book, and
>covered thoroughly in Dale Myers's *With Malice.*
>
I've even got a little graphic made for this. Maybe when I study it a
bit it gets added.
Thanks for the help.
.John
--
JS707FL
>Beverly Oliver's BL and John McAdam's BL.:)
>
>Martha
Martha:
As usual, you may be correct.
I've done research trying to find that "lost film" and have dead leads.
However, in Shaw's book "Cover Up" there are 1 or 2 fairly good photos taken
from the knoll area shortly after the assassination. The babuschka lady with
the camera is visible in these pictures.
She is obviously not Beverly Oliver and has bold, manly, ugly features, sort of
like Priscilla McMillan.
There was an early lead investigated by the FBI that the real babuschka lady
was a german tourist who happened to be in Dealey Plaza with her camera, but
that hasn't panned out so far.
If Beverly Oliver really was in Dealey Plaza wearing a scarf during the
assassination, then there were indeed two "babuschka ladies."
Hope you are well. :-)
John
Orlando, Florida
"I, therefore, suggested that these [autopsy] photographs and X-rays be
delivered to the Department of Justice with the suggestion that they not be
made public except by permission of the Kennedy family." - Earl Warren
Dave Reitzes
>From: js7...@aol.com (JS707FL)
>
>>Speaking of Beverly Oliver - How about "two Babushka ladies"?
>>Beverly Oliver's BL and John McAdam's BL.:)
>>
>>Martha
>
>Martha:
>
>As usual, you may be correct.
>
>I've done research trying to find that "lost film" and have dead leads.
>
>However, in Shaw's book "Cover Up" there are 1 or 2 fairly good photos taken
>from the knoll area shortly after the assassination. The babuschka lady with
>the camera is visible in these pictures.
>
>She is obviously not Beverly Oliver and has bold, manly, ugly features, sort
>of
>like Priscilla McMillan.
Supposedly, Bev has denied that these particular photos in the Shaw book are of
her.
>There was an early lead investigated by the FBI that the real babuschka lady
>was a german tourist who happened to be in Dealey Plaza with her camera, but
>that hasn't panned out so far.
Actually (ye gads!), if she had left the country before having her (alleged)
film developed, that would be one helluva dandy reason she never came forward
here in the US.
But then again, such a film (if indeed there were a film, and if it were
reasonably clear) would be far too valuable (not least of all financially) to
keep to oneself.
I tend to think that -- whether the BL was Beverly Oliver, the young lady
described by film processor Jack Harrison, or somebody else entirely -- the
film, assuming there was a film, probably came out poorly, or not at all.
Dave
>If Beverly Oliver really was in Dealey Plaza wearing a scarf during the
>assassination, then there were indeed two "babuschka ladies."
>
>Hope you are well. :-)
Martha
"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021011034004...@mb-mg.aol.com...
Maybe there was something else on the film - incriminating to BL and
others - that someone did not want seen.
Just a thought.
Martha
Dave Reitzes
>
>
>"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com>
Martha, as I think I've said to you in the past, I don't rule out the
possibility that Bev was indeed the Babushka Lady. But if so, I do not believe
that anyone made off with her film, as she claims. Do you?
Dave
Martha
Dave Reitzes
>
>
>"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com>
>> >From: "Martha" m...@comteck.com
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com>
Okay, so when you say there might have been something else on the film
incriminating to Bev and/or others, could you be more specific? By "something
else," are you referring to footage unrelated to the assassination, just on the
same roll of film?
Dave
Martha
Dave
My "guess" would be "yes". There may well have been something else on the
film that someone did not want seen.
I really should qualify my "nope" in answer to your question. It is
possible somebody took the film from the BL but I do not believe it was
federal agents or state agents.
Martha
Dave Reitzes
>
>
>"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com>
>> >From: "Martha" m...@comteck.com
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com>
>> >> >Maybe there was something else on the film - incriminating to BL and
>> >> >others - that someone did not want seen.
>> >> >
>> >> >Just a thought.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Martha, as I think I've said to you in the past, I don't rule out the
>> >> possibility that Bev was indeed the Babushka Lady. But if so, I do not
>> >believe
>> >> that anyone made off with her film, as she claims. Do you?
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Nope!!!
>>
>>
>> Okay, so when you say there might have been something else on the film
>> incriminating to Bev and/or others, could you be more specific? By
>"something
>> else," are you referring to footage unrelated to the assassination, just
>on the
>> same roll of film?
>>
>> Dave
>
>Dave
>
>My "guess" would be "yes". There may well have been something else on the
>film that someone did not want seen.
>
>I really should qualify my "nope" in answer to your question. It is
>possible somebody took the film from the BL but I do not believe it was
>federal agents or state agents.
I'd certainly hate to think that Bev herself (or anyone, really) would have
junked the film just because of something else on the roll.
Joe Zircon
ROFLMAO!
Especially when all one needs do is get out a pair of scissors, cut
the offending part off, and sell the remainder to Life Magazine for
$1.25 million on Saturday, 11/23/63!
Are we to think that elegant million dollar solution didn't occur to
Beverly Oliver (or whomever), so she's simply keeping it locked up
someplace?
Personally, I think the film or photograph was destroyed by the
original owner (if it showed the head wound clearly, as it should
have, presuming the BL knew how to focus a camera) precisely for that
reason, that it was too horrible to view, and they didn't want it to
be part of the historical record. Alternately, perhaps they filed it
away and never mentioned it to anyone. And horrors of horrors, if the
person is now deceased, the film was not recognized as anything
valuable and simply discarded by her heirs.
If they are still alive, then perhaps the film or photo(s) will be
discovered by the eventual heirs, recognised as valuable, and
eventually become part of the historical record.
The BL was, what -- approximately 40 at the time of the assassination?
She'd be about 80 now, so it's quite possible she's still alive and
still in possession of that film or photo(s).
Peter Fokes
"JS707FL" <js7...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021010031519...@mb-mq.aol.com...
> >Speaking of Beverly Oliver - How about "two Babushka ladies"?
> >Beverly Oliver's BL and John McAdam's BL.:)
> >
> >Martha
>
> Martha:
>
> As usual, you may be correct.
>
> I've done research trying to find that "lost film" and have dead leads.
>
> However, in Shaw's book "Cover Up" there are 1 or 2 fairly good photos
taken
> from the knoll area shortly after the assassination. The babuschka lady
with
> the camera is visible in these pictures.
>
> She is obviously not Beverly Oliver and has bold, manly, ugly features,
sort of
> like Priscilla McMillan.
Now there's a thought.
-:)
>
> There was an early lead investigated by the FBI that the real babuschka
lady
> was a german tourist who happened to be in Dealey Plaza with her camera,
but
> that hasn't panned out so far.
Conceivable.
Peter Fokes
<snip>
> Personally, I think the film or photograph was destroyed by the
> original owner (if it showed the head wound clearly, as it should
> have, presuming the BL knew how to focus a camera) precisely for that
> reason, that it was too horrible to view, and they didn't want it to
> be part of the historical record.
THEY?
You are outlining a conspiracy, joe!
Peter F