THE TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM WHALEY
David Von Pein
EXAMINING THE TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. WHALEY:
========================================
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0131a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0150b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0219b.htm
William Wayne Whaley had been a cab driver in Dallas, Texas, for 37
years as of Friday, November 22, 1963. On that date, at approximately
12:48 PM, Mr. Whaley had the very unique experience of having a
Presidential assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, get into his "1961 Checker"
taxicab at the Greyhound Bus Station in downtown Dallas.
For a 95-cent fare, Whaley drove President John F. Kennedy's assassin
from the Greyhound station to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, a
distance of a little less than 2.5 miles. Oswald told Whaley that he
wanted a ride to the "500 block of North Beckley".
But instead of travelling to that exact destination (or to his real,
intended destination of his roominghouse, located at 1026 North
Beckley Avenue), Oswald told Whaley to pull over to the curb near the
intersection of Neely and Beckley (which was originally mis-identified
as the corner of "Neches and Beckley" during Whaley's first session in
front of the Warren Commission). Neely & Beckley was located in the
700 block of Beckley, about three city blocks beyond Oswald's rented
room at 1026 Beckley.
Oswald then backtracked the three-block distance on foot. It's very
likely, in my opinion, that Oswald had two reasons for telling Whaley
to take him past his real destination on November 22nd. One reason
would probably have been so that Oswald could check to see if there
were any police cars near his roominghouse. And secondly, LHO likely
didn't want cab driver Whaley to know for sure just exactly where he
lived in Oak Cliff.
William Whaley has been called a subpar or unreliable or unbelievable
witness by many conspiracy theorists over the years, with those
"CTers" claiming that the passenger Whaley took to Oak Cliff shortly
after JFK was assassinated could not possibly have been Lee Harvey
Oswald.
The conspiracists who say those things about Whaley cite the fact that
Whaley's description of the clothing worn by his passenger doesn't
match the clothing worn by Lee Oswald on 11/22/63. Plus, some CTers
feel Whaley is unreliable based also on his initial error regarding
the street location where he said he dropped off Oswald (the Neches
vs. Neely mistake, which was fully corrected by Whaley, as we'll see
below).
But there's one thing that CTers cannot avoid....and that is the fact
that William W. Whaley POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED (without a shred of
hesitation) Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who was in his cab on the
afternoon of November 22nd, 1963 (as we will also see below, via
Whaley's own testimony).
Let's examine some of Whaley's Warren Commission testimony now (with
some of my comments included along the way). Whaley's testimony
consists of three separate segments of text within the WC volumes,
covering two days' worth of testimony (on March 12, 1964, and April 8,
1964):
==============================
JOSEPH BALL. Look at your manifest and tell me where you were at 12
o'clock the day of November 22, 1963.
WILLIAM W. WHALEY. 12 o'clock I got a call to the Travis Hotel. I have
got it marked 16, which is the Continental bus station, stand No. 15,
55 cents. I unloaded that at 12:15.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go at 12:15, according to you record?
Mr. WHALEY. According to my record, I got a pickup at the Continental
bus station, which is stand 16 and went to the Greyhound, which is 55
cents. I unloaded at the Greyhound; I have got it marked 12:30. See,
there is that 15 minutes you say I am off, I just mark it 15. I don't
put the correct time on the sheet, because they don't require it, sir,
but anywhere approximate.
Mr. BALL. In other words, it took you about 15 minutes to go--
Mr. WHALEY. It actually took about nine minutes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you put the trip ending Greyhound around 12:30?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You remember that trip, do you? You remember the fact that
you took the trip to the Greyhound and parked your car at the
Greyhound or your cab at the Greyhound, don't you?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; I remember it.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing at the Greyhound, at your cab stand at the
Greyhound, long before you picked up another passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; there was no one at the Greyhound stand and when
I unloaded at the door I just pulled up about 30 feet to the stand and
stopped and then I wanted a package of cigarettes. I was out, so I
started to get out and I saw this passenger coming so I waited for
him.
Mr. BALL. He was coming down the street?
Mr. WHALEY. He was walking down the street. ....
Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then.
But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed
in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were
khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in
khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on
it and he had on some kind of jacket. I didn't notice very close but I
think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants. His shirt
was open three buttons down here. He had on a T-shirt. You know, the
shirt was open three buttons down there.
[DVP: I think it might be again worth pointing out these initial words
spoken by Mr. Whaley above: "I didn't pay much attention to it right
then".
So, possibly a grain of salt should be placed next to the detailed
clothing descriptions given by Whaley. However, by the same token,
Whaley did seem to notice details of Oswald's shirt ("a little
silverlike stripe") that would tend to make his testimony about the
clothing a bit more substantial and reliable.
And Whaley also identified CE150--Oswald's brown arrest shirt--as the
same shirt he saw Oswald wearing while he was in his cab on November
22nd.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0270a.htm
The CE150 identification by Whaley is somewhat important, because if
Whaley is correct (and the sum total of evidence in the JFK murder
case indicates Whaley was, indeed, correct on this particular point),
it means that Oswald positively wore the SAME SHIRT all day long on
November 22 (both before and after he quickly visited his lodgings on
Beckley Avenue).
Whaley's contention that Oswald was wearing one or more jackets over
the top of his brown shirt and T-shirt is testimony that is very much
in doubt, however. The sum total of evidence indicates that Whaley was
mistaken about Oswald wearing ANY jacket during the cab ride to Oak
Cliff on November 22 (let alone TWO jackets, which is some strange
testimony from Whaley that we'll get to in a moment).
Oswald, by all reliable accounts, owned just two jackets. One of these
jackets was a light, gray, "Eisenhower"-type zipper jacket (CE162,
below):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0272b.jpg
While the other jacket known to have been owned by Oswald as of
11/22/63 was a heavier dark blue jacket (CE163, below):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0273a.jpg
We know that Oswald could not possibly have been wearing the blue
jacket when he was in Whaley's cab, because that jacket (CE163) was
subsequently discovered inside the Book Depository Building several
days after the assassination of President Kennedy.
It's very likely that Oswald wore that blue jacket to work on November
22nd. He then abandoned it in the TSBD after he shot the President and
made a hasty exit from the building within about three minutes of the
shooting.
CE150, the gray jacket, was found under a car behind the Texaco
Service Station on Jefferson Boulevard shortly after Oswald (per a
huge amount of evidence) shot and killed Dallas policeman J.D. Tippit
on Tenth Street in Oak Cliff.
Earlene Roberts, the housekeeper at Oswald's roominghouse, testified
that Lee Oswald entered his Beckley residence "in a hurry" at
approximately 1:00 PM on November 22nd. And according to Mrs. Roberts,
Oswald was not wearing any jacket at all when he entered the house,
but he WAS "zipping up" a jacket when he hurriedly exited his small
room:
EARLENE ROBERTS. He {Lee Oswald} went to his room and he was in his
shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved
shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it
on--it was kind of a zipper jacket.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen him wear that jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I can't say I did. If I did, I don't remember it.
Mr. BALL. When he came in he was in a shirt?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He was in his shirt sleeves.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/robertse.htm
There is also Earlene Roberts' December 5th, 1963, affidavit, which
indicates that Oswald "did not have a jacket when he came in the
house":]
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0224a.htm
==============================
Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that, will you tell us in your own
words what he did?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, on this which was the 14th trip, when I picked up at
the Greyhound, I marked it 12:30 to 12:45.
Mr. BALL. You say that can be off 15 minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. That can be off either direction.
Mr. BALL. Anything up to 15 minutes, you say?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I wrote that trip up the same time I wrote the
one up from the Continental bus station to the Greyhound. I marked
this 12:15 to 12:30 and started 12:30 to 12:45. And the next one
starts at 1:15 to 1:30 and it goes on all day long every 15 minutes;
the time keeps pretty approximate.
Mr. BALL. Let's take the 12:30 trip; tell me about that--what the
passenger said.
Mr. WHALEY. He said, "May I have the cab?" I said, "You sure can. Get
in." And instead of opening the back door, he opened the front door,
which is allowable there, and got in.
Mr. BALL. Got in the front door?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. The front seat. And about that time an old lady,
I think she was an old lady, I don't remember nothing but her sticking
her head down past him in the door and said, "Driver, will you call me
a cab down here?" She had seen him get this cab and she wanted one,
too, and he opened the door a little bit like he was going to get out
and he said, "I will let you have this one," and she says, "No, the
driver can call me one." So, I didn't call one because I knew before I
could call one would come around the block and keep it pretty well
covered.
[DVP: I've always thought it kind of interesting that Oswald got in
the FRONT seat of Whaley's cab. To tell the truth, I've always thought
it was kind of a strange thing to do, too. Who rides in the FRONT SEAT
of a taxicab when you're a passenger?
But, as Whaley said, it was "allowable there" (in Dallas), so Whaley
apparently didn't think it was too odd. At least he didn't say
anything about it seeming strange to him during his WC testimony.
Some conspiracy theorists have also remarked that they think it was
out of character for a supposed Presidential assassin to have been
willing to give up his cab at that critical "getaway" time if Oswald
had truly just shot the President a short time earlier.
I suppose, if you tried hard enough to forget about all the OTHER
evidence which indicates Oswald was guilty of shooting JFK (and it's
evidence that is abundance in quantity, as everyone knows), a CTer
could make a case for Oswald being innocent based on the very small
fact that he was apparently willing to surrender his cab to a fellow
passenger on November 22nd.
But, frankly, that type of thin, fringe argument is kind of like
taking a drop of water out of the Atlantic Ocean and then expecting it
to suddenly make the Atlantic as dry as the Mojave.]
==============================
Mr. WHALEY. I asked him where he wanted to go. And he said, "500 North
Beckley." Well, I started up, I started to that address, and the
police cars, the sirens was going, running crisscrossing everywhere,
just a big uproar in that end of town and I said, "What the hell. I
wonder what the hell is the uproar?" And he never said anything. So I
figured he was one of these people that don't like to talk, so I never
said any more to him. But when I got pretty close to 500 block at
Neches and North Beckley, which is the 500 block, he said, "This will
do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there. He gave me a
dollar bill, the trip was 95 cents. He gave me a dollar bill and
didn't say anything, just got out and closed the door and walked
around the front of the cab over to the other side of the street. Of
course, traffic was moving through there and I put it in gear and
moved on; that is the last I saw of him.
Mr. BALL. When you parked your car, you parked on what street?
Mr. WHALEY. I wasn't parked, I was pulled to the curb on Neches and
North Beckley.
Mr. BALL. Neches, corner of Neches and North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Which is the 500 block.
[DVP: Whaley was mistaken about the "Neches" reference, because Neches
does not intersect Beckley Avenue:
Whaley meant to say "Neely", not Neches:
And Whaley fully corrected this "Neches/Neely" error in a subsequent
session in front of the Warren Commission on April 8, 1964:]
DAVID W. BELIN. I will take you back to November 22. You turned south
on Beckley and then where did you go as you turned south on Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. I went right up on Beckley headed toward the 500 block.
Mr. BELIN. Then what happened?
Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of
Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here," and I pulled up
to the curb.
Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.
Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of
North Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. ....
Mr. WHALEY. ...I don't think you can understand what I had to put up
with that afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. You mean with the press?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; with everything.
Mr. BELIN. Well, I do understand, sir, and I appreciate that you were
under a great deal of pressure at that time, and I want to try and get
at the actual facts, and that is why we asked you to come back to
testify again, because we wanted to know basically whether or not the
man that you drove in the cab got off in the 500 block or the 700
block.
Mr. WHALEY. The man I drove in the cab got off where I told you he got
off this morning. I picked him up, and I showed you where I picked him
up, and the trip runs 95 cents on the meter. He gave me a dollar and
got off and he never spoke a word to me, except he wanted to go to 500
North Beckley. ....
Mr. BELIN. When did you first ascertain or start thinking about it
that it was the 700 block of North Beckley where you let him off?
Mr. WHALEY. Well, when the FBI man got in my cab and he wanted to go
over the route.
Mr. BELIN. When was this?
Mr. WHALEY. I don't know the exact date, sir, but it was the next
week.
Mr. BELIN. In the next week you told the FBI that it was the 700
block?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; I don't recall. I know I took him to where I let
him out.
Mr. BELIN. You did?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever tell anyone it was the 700 block of North
Beckley?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir. I left it said just like I had it on my trip
sheet. Nobody else asked me about it.
Mr. BELIN. When we went out there today, when we started the stopwatch
from the Greyhound bus station to the 700 block of North Beckley, do
you know about how many minutes that was on the stop watch?
Mr. WHALEY. A little more than 5 minutes, between 5 and 6 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Would your trip that day, on November 22, have been longer
or shorter, or about the same time as the trip we took today?
Mr. WHALEY. It would be approximately the same time, sir, give or take
a few seconds, not minutes. Because the man drove just about as near
to my driving as possible. We made every light that I made, and we
stopped on the lights that I stopped on.
Mr. BELIN. Let the record show that the stopwatch was 5 minutes and 30
seconds from the commencement of the ride to the end of the ride, and
let the record further show that Dr. Goldberg and Mr. Robert Davis
from the Texas attorney general's office and I walked back from the
point where the Deponent Whaley told us he let the passenger off at
[this "at" should really be the word "to"] the residence at 1026 North
Beckley, and that this walk took 5 minutes and 45 seconds. And let the
record further show that after visiting the rooming house at 1026
North Beckley--that is what I call the "long way around route"--was
walked from 1026 North Beckley to the scene of the Tippit shooting,
which took 17 minutes and 45 seconds at an average walking pace, and
this route would be to take Beckley to 10th Street and then turn on
10th Street toward Patton, and this is not the most direct route.
Rather, the most direct route would be to take Beckley to Davis Street
and then turn left or east on Davis, walking a short block to
Crawford, and taking Crawford to 10th, and then 10th east to Patton,
or taking Davis Street directly to Patton, and taking Patton down to
East 10th, and that the more direct nature of the later route appears
from the map which I believe is Commission's Exhibit No. 371, which is
the Dallas street map.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0496a.htm
==============================
Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his
clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left
arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know,
how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny,
you notice things like that.
[DVP: As can be seen in the photos of Oswald below (which were taken
on the day of the assassination, with Oswald still wearing the brown
shirt he was arrested in), LHO is wearing a bracelet on his LEFT
wrist, aligning with Whaley's testimony:]
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bcQ3jJ3rT7Pe/340x.jpg
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald2.gif
==============================
Mr. BALL. Here is Commission No. 162, which is a gray jacket with
zipper.
Mr. WHALEY. I think that is the jacket he had on when he rode with me
in the cab.
Mr. BALL. Look something like it? And here is Commission Exhibit No.
163. Does this look like anything he had on?
Mr. WHALEY. He had this one on or the other one.
Mr. BALL. That is right.
Mr. WHALEY. That is what I told you I noticed. I told you about the
shirt being open, he had on the two jackets with the open shirt.
Mr. BALL. Wait a minute, we have got the shirt which you have
identified as the rust brown shirt with the gold stripe in it.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You said that a jacket--
Mr. WHALEY. That jacket--now it might have been clean, but the jacket
he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he
had this coat here on over that other jacket; I am sure, sir.
[DVP: Now, here is where we're confronted with some very odd testimony
given by Mr. Whaley. As previously discussed, it's highly doubtful
that Oswald was wearing ANY jacket at all when he rode in Whaley's cab
on November 22nd. But here we have testimony from an otherwise
seemingly very observant witness (Mr. Whaley) that indicates the
possibility that Oswald was wearing not only one jacket...but two!
About all I can say here is: Whaley is simply wrong. We know he's
wrong about the blue jacket, because that jacket was found in the
Depository in December '63. (I wonder if some conspiracy theorists
think that the police "planted" the blue jacket in the TSBD's Domino
Room after the assassination? Or maybe they think Oswald borrowed
somebody else's blue jacket for his ride in the cab on 11/22?)
I cannot fully reconcile Mr. Whaley's "jacket" testimony above. But by
far the best indication that Whaley really did carry Lee Oswald in his
taxi on 11/22/63, regardless of any comments made about "jackets", is
this testimony from Whaley:]
Mr. BALL. They brought you down to the Dallas police station?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do there?
Mr. WHALEY. ...They took me down in their room where they have their
show-ups and all, and me and this other taxi driver who was with me,
sir, we sat in the room awhile and directly they brought in six men,
young teenagers, and they all were handcuffed together. Well, they
wanted me to pick out my passenger. At that time he had on a pair of
black pants and white T-shirt, that is all he had on. But you could
have picked him out without identifying him by just listening to him
because he was bawling out the policeman, telling them it wasn't right
to put him in line with these teenagers and all of that and they asked
me which one and I told them. It was him all right, the same man.
Mr. BALL. They had him in line with men much younger?
Mr. WHALEY. With five others.
Mr. BALL. Men much younger?
Mr. WHALEY. Not much younger, but just young kids; they might have got
them in jail.
Mr. BALL. Did he look older than those other boys?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And he was talking, was he?
Mr. WHALEY. He showed no respect for the policemen, he told them what
he thought about them. They knew what they were doing and they were
trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.
Mr. BALL. Did that aid you in the identification of the man?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; it wouldn't have at all, except that I said
anybody who wasn't sure could have picked out the right one just for
that. It didn't aid me, because I knew he was the right one as soon as
I saw him.
Mr. BALL. You don't think that that in any way influenced your
identification?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; it did not. When you drive a taxi, sir, as long
as I have, you can almost look at a man--in fact, you have to--to be
able to tell whether you can trust or whether you can't trust him,
what he is. Now, like you got in my taxicab and I looked you over and
you told me, "Just wait for me here" and went in the building. Well, I
will have to know whether I could just say, "OK, sir." Or say, "Will
you leave me a $5 bill, sir?" When you drive a taxi that long, you
learn to judge people, and what I actually thought of the man when he
got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about
two days. That is the way he looked, sir. That was my opinion of him.
Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that
impression? Hair mussed?
Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't
in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.
Mr. BALL. He didn't run?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty?
Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he
wasn't actually dirty. The T-shirt was a little soiled around the
collar, but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those
winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing
you can do but call the police. The city gets the fine and you get
nothing.
[DVP: Worth repeating:]
"But you could have picked him out without identifying him by
just listening to him because he was bawling out the policeman,
telling them it wasn't right to put him in line with these teenagers
and all of that and they asked me which one and I told them. It was
him all right, the same man." -- William W. Whaley
==============================
Mr. BALL. Can you give me any estimate of the time it took you to go
that 2-and-a-half miles?
Mr. WHALEY. Not actually, sir. I run it again with the policeman
because the policeman was worried; he run the same trip and he
couldn't come out the same time I did. But he was turning off of
Jackson and Lamar when the light was wrong, and he was hitting a red
light at Wood--I mean at Austin and Jackson--and he hit a red light at
Wood and Austin. Then he hit a red light at Houston. Where I wait to
make my turn until the light is right just after it has been green,
almost ready for it to come red, turn right then, then the other
lights turn green just as fast as you get to them, go on right
through, you save about 2 minutes in traffic that way. That is where I
got the 2 minutes on him he never could make up. So I had to go back
with him to make that trip--to show him I was right.
Mr. BALL. How much time, in that experiment, when you hit the lights
right, how long did it take you?
Mr. WHALEY. Nine minutes.
Mr. BALL. Nine minutes?
Mr. WHALEY. Nine minutes.
GERALD R. FORD. Now on this particular trip with Oswald, do you recall
the lights being with you?
Mr. WHALEY. They were with me, sir; for I timed them that way before I
took off. Because I made that so much that I know the light system and
how they are going to turn.
Mr. FORD. So this was a typical trip?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
EARL WARREN. The witness has been driving a taxicab in Dallas for 36
years.
Mr. WHALEY. Thirty-seven, sir.
Mr. WARREN. Thirty-seven.
Mr. WHALEY. You name an intersection in the city of Dallas and I will
tell you what is on all four corners.
[DVP: The above "9 minutes" testimony is from Whaley's first WC
session in March 1964, which means there's about a 4-minute difference
in "re-created cab ride" times from the 9-minute re-creation Whaley
had a policeman perform and the 5.5-minute re-creation that was
performed specifically for the Warren Commission in early April of
'64.
But based on EITHER of those re-created times for the Whaley/Oswald
cab ride, Lee Oswald still would have had ample time to get to his
roominghouse by approximately 1:00 PM on November 22, and then travel
(on foot) the additional 0.85 of a mile to Tenth & Patton to kill
Officer Tippit after leaving his Beckley room.
Although, granted, based on the "9-minute" re-created cab ride, the
timeline is quite a bit tighter for Oswald to have gotten from 1026
Beckley to 10th & Patton by approximately 1:14 or 1:15 PM.
But we must also remember that we have no idea at all how fast or slow
Lee Oswald was walking (or running) when he travelled that 0.85 mile
from Beckley to Tenth Street on 11/22/63. And I believe that some
people who have re-created Oswald's famous Beckley-to-Tenth trek have
been able to make the trip in about 11 minutes, which is just about
right, based on the first timeline listed below.
Let's break it down via both of the re-created times, per Whaley's
testimony shown in this post (keeping in mind that all times of this
nature are only general "approximations" with respect to the actual
amount of time it took Whaley to travel from the Greyhound station to
Neely & Beckley in Oak Cliff on 11/22/63):
VIA THE 9-MINUTE RE-CREATED TIMELINE:
12:30 -- Oswald shoots JFK.
12:33 -- Oswald leaves TSBD.
12:40 -- Oswald gets on bus.
12:44 -- Oswald gets transfer and exits bus.
12:48 -- Oswald gets into Whaley's cab.
12:57 -- Oswald gets out of cab.
1:02:45 -- Oswald arrives at his roominghouse.
1:03:45* -- Oswald leaves his roominghouse "in a hurry".
1:14:30** -- Oswald shoots and kills J.D. Tippit.
VIA THE 5.5-MINUTE RE-CREATED TIMELINE:
12:30 -- Oswald shoots JFK.
12:33 -- Oswald leaves TSBD.
12:40 -- Oswald gets on bus.
12:44 -- Oswald gets transfer and exits bus.
12:48 -- Oswald gets into Whaley's cab.
12:53:30 -- Oswald gets out of cab.
12:59:15 -- Oswald arrives at his roominghouse.
1:00:15* -- Oswald leaves his roominghouse "in a hurry".
1:14:30** -- Oswald shoots and kills J.D. Tippit.
* = DVP's "LHO Was In His Room For Only 1 Minute" estimate, which
differs from the WC/Earlene Roberts estimate, which has Oswald inside
his room for "3 or 4 minutes". I can't buy that. Never did. Keep in
mind that Mrs. Roberts also said during her WC testimony that Oswald
was in his room "just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a
jacket and put it on".
** = Dale Myers' estimate of when Tippit was likely shot (Source:
"With Malice"; Page 382). The other times shown in the above timelines
align with the Warren Commission's timeline estimates, per CE1119-A
(linked below).]
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0058b.htm
==============================
==============================
bill_...@excite.com
> EXAMINING THE TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. WHALEY:
>
> ========================================
>
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_015...
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_021...
>
> William Wayne Whaley had been a cab driver in Dallas, Texas, for 37
> years as of Friday, November 22, 1963. On that date, at approximately
> 12:48 PM, Mr. Whaley had the very unique experience of having a
> Presidential assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, get into his "1961 Checker"
> taxicab at the Greyhound Bus Station in downtown Dallas.
>
> For a 95-cent fare, Whaley drove President John F. Kennedy's assassin
> from the Greyhound station to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, a
> distance of a little less than 2.5 miles. Oswald told Whaley that he
> wanted a ride to the "500 block of North Beckley".
>
> But instead of travelling to that exact destination (or to his real,
> intended destination of his roominghouse, located at 1026 North
> Beckley Avenue), Oswald told Whaley to pull over to the curb near the
> intersection of Neely and Beckley (which was originally mis-identified
> as the corner of "Neches and Beckley" during Whaley's first session in
> front of the Warren Commission). Neely & Beckley was located in the
> 700 block of Beckley, about three city blocks beyond Oswald's rented
> room at 1026 Beckley.
>
> Oswald then backtracked the three-block distance on foot. It's very
> likely, in my opinion, that Oswald had two reasons for telling Whaley
> to take him past his real destination on November 22nd. One reason
> would probably have been so that Oswald could check to see if there
> were any police cars near his roominghouse.
Demonstrably false. Oswald had given his rooming house address to no
one....neither to his employer nor Ruth Paine nor anyone else we know
about. If he was worried about anything, it was that Ruth Paine had --
sometime just prior to November 22 -- made the connection between the
phone number of his rooming house, which Oswald had absent- mindedly given
to her, and the ability of the FBI to determine his address from that
phone number....and that she had then contacted Hosty to give him the
phone number, which would have allowed him to determine where Oswald was
living in Dallas.
Even if Hosty had been given the phone number and determined the address,
it would have required super-human powers of premonition on his part for
him to automatically assume literally within minutes of the assassination
that the shots had definitely been fired from the TSBD, where Hosty knew
Oswald worked, and that it was Oswald who had fired those shots. Your
argument further suggests that Hosty not only made all those assumptions
but had also contacted the Dallas police to arrange a stakeout of Oswald's
rooming house with marked patrol cars....a truly preposterous scenario if
the DPD had any notion of apprehending Oswald when and if he ever
returned.
No, Oswald had Whaley drive past the rooming house because he feared Hosty
might have determined his address and might be waiting for him in an
unmarked car parked either in the driveway of the rooming house or at the
curb or may a few houses down the street....not necessarily to arrest him,
but to question him. That and nothing more. And I can assure you that
had he seen a car parked nearby with a man in a suit inside, he almost
certainly would have glanced at the license plate number to see if it was
the same number given to him by Marina.
John Blubaugh
> EXAMINING THE TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. WHALEY:
>
> ========================================
>
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_015...
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_021...
>
> years as of Friday, November 22, 1963. On that date, at approximately
> 12:48 PM, Mr. Whaley had the very unique experience of having a
> Presidential assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, get into his "1961 Checker"
> taxicab at the Greyhound Bus Station in downtown Dallas.
>
I must have missed something. When was Oswald convicted of
assassinating JFK? It seems to me that the correct wording would be
"assassination suspect." But, I suppose that would not be strong
enough for you. You state opinion as fact all of the time. Why is
that?
JB
Anthony Marsh
So, if Hosty had informed the DPD about Oswald being in Dallas as he
should and Truly told the DPD that Oswald was missing, you think it
would take a rocket scientist to put two and two together? Look at how
quickly they put out an APB on Givens because he had a police record.
And why didn't Hosty forward his information on Oswald to the Secret
Service? Oswald meeting with the head of the KGB assassination program?
Explain Byke. Explain Sarah Jane Moore. The Secret Service interviewed
me simply because I have written so much about assassinations.
David Von Pein
>>> "Oswald had given his rooming house address to no one." <<<
So what? Whaley would have SEEN Oswald's roominghouse and exactly
where it was located had Oz decided to be dropped off at 1026 Beckley.
bill_...@excite.com
The whole point of my post went right over your head....making a loud
"wooooosh-ing" sound. Von Pein stated in his original post that when
Oswald told Whaley to drive past his rooming house, he was probably
looking for police cars camped out at his North Beckley address within a
half hour of the assassination.
I suggested that even IF Hosty had concluded within minutes of the
assassination that Oswald was the assassin...which he most certainly did
not....it would be preposterous for him to arrange a DPD stakeout at his
rooming house with four or five patrol cars in sight....as if Oswald would
be stupid enough to approach his rooming house with cops visibly camped
out there. What Hosty should have done or could have done prior to
November 22 had nothing to do with the issue addressed in my previous
post.
>Look at how
> quickly they put out an APB on Givens because he had a police record.
> And why didn't Hosty forward his information on Oswald to the Secret
> Service? Oswald meeting with the head of the KGB assassination program?
> Explain Byke. Explain Sarah Jane Moore. The Secret Service interviewed
> me simply because I have written so much about assassinations.
What the hell does all that have to do with Von Pein's statement that
Oswald was looking for police cars when he rode past his rooming house?
THAT is all I was addressing in my previous post.
David Von Pein
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>>> "Mr. Whaley had the very unique experience of having a Presidential
assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, get into his "1961 Checker" taxicab at the
Greyhound Bus Station in downtown Dallas." <<<
JOHN BLUBAUGH SAID:
>>> "I must have missed something. When was Oswald convicted of
assassinating JFK? It seems to me that the correct wording would be
"assassination suspect." But, I suppose that would not be strong enough
for you. You state opinion as fact all of the time. Why is that?" <<<
DAVID VON PEIN NOW SAYS:
Because it's obvious that the "opinion" you're referring to here is 100%
accurate (i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald murdered President Kennedy).
"I can tell the readers of this book ["Reclaiming History"] that if
anyone in the future maintains to them that Oswald was just a patsy and
did not kill Kennedy, that person is either unaware of the evidence
against Oswald or simply a very silly person. .... Any denial of Oswald's
guilt is not worthy of serious discussion." -- VINCENT T. BUGLIOSI
bill_...@excite.com
And my response to that remark is also "so what?" Are you actually
suggesting Oswald intended to return to his rooming house later in the
evening....or the next day when his housekeeper and fellow tenants had
seen his photo on TV....and didn't want Whaley to tell the police where it
was?? Why on earth would he give a damn if Whaley remembered the location
of his rooming house?? That was NOT the reason he had Whaley drive past
it.
I was merely trying to expose the sheer emptiness of your suggestion that
Oswald was looking for police cars surrounding his rooming house. To
suggest that Hosty -- if he'd had Oswald's phone number, which he did not
-- would have arranged such a scenario in an effort to apprehend Oswald
when he came home after killing the president of the United States assigns
a level of stupidity to Hosty and the Dallas Police previously not
imagined even in the most farfetched conspiracy theories.
David Von Pein
It's not an empty suggestion at all (IMO). In fact, it's the only
really logical conclusion to reach for why Oswald would have wanted to
SLOW HIMSELF DOWN BY ABOUT 5 MINUTES (5 min., 45 sec., in fact, per
the WC re-creation of the trek from Beckley & Neely to 1026 Beckley)
by telling Whaley to go three blocks beyond his actual destination
after just having committed a Presidential murder.
>>> "To suggest that Hosty -- if he'd had Oswald's phone number, which he did not -- would have arranged such a scenario in an effort to apprehend Oswald when he came home after killing the president of the United States assigns a level of stupidity to Hosty and the Dallas Police previously not imagined even in the most farfetched conspiracy theories." <<<
Why on Earth does James Hosty necessarily have to enter into this
"LOOKING FOR POLICE CARS" equation at all (from LHO's own POV, that
is)? Obviously, Hosty doesn't have to enter into it whatsoever.
Oswald had just shot the President 2.5 miles from 1026 Beckley. He
knows it's been about a half-hour since he did so. He can't possibly
know how how many people might have seen him shooting in the window as
he sticks his rifle out the SN window. And he can't be sure the cops
aren't already aware of his home address as of 1 PM on 11/22 either.
All of these things are "unknowables" to murderer Oswald at 1:00 PM.
Why WOULDN'T he possibly suspect some cops were on his tail almost
immediately?
I can think of no BETTER reason that the "I Better Check The Area For
Police Before I Depart This Cab" reason for Oswald wanting to
intentionally slow down his getaway by 5 or more minutes by having the
cab driver take him 3 blocks beyond 1026 Beckley. Did he want to just
get a little extra exercise that day by walking the extra 3 blocks?
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 24, 8:02 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Oswald had given his rooming house address to no one." <<<
>> So what? Whaley would have SEEN Oswald's roominghouse and exactly
>> where it was located had Oz decided to be dropped off at 1026 Beckley.
>
> And my response to that remark is also "so what?" Are you actually
> suggesting Oswald intended to return to his rooming house later in the
> evening....or the next day when his housekeeper and fellow tenants had
> seen his photo on TV....and didn't want Whaley to tell the police where it
> was?? Why on earth would he give a damn if Whaley remembered the location
> of his rooming house?? That was NOT the reason he had Whaley drive past
> it.
>
You fail to understand that the police often call the taxi cab companies
and ask where a suspicious character was dropped off.
Anthony Marsh
Of course. I have said dozens of times that Oswald was paranoid about
the police and FBI following him around and would want to see if the
roominghouse was being staked out. Standard counter surveillance technique.
> I suggested that even IF Hosty had concluded within minutes of the
> assassination that Oswald was the assassin...which he most certainly did
> not....it would be preposterous for him to arrange a DPD stakeout at his
> rooming house with four or five patrol cars in sight....as if Oswald would
They don't have to be police cars in plain sight. Ever do any stake-outs?
> be stupid enough to approach his rooming house with cops visibly camped
> out there. What Hosty should have done or could have done prior to
> November 22 had nothing to do with the issue addressed in my previous
> post.
>
>> Look at how
>> quickly they put out an APB on Givens because he had a police record.
>> And why didn't Hosty forward his information on Oswald to the Secret
>> Service? Oswald meeting with the head of the KGB assassination program?
>> Explain Byke. Explain Sarah Jane Moore. The Secret Service interviewed
>> me simply because I have written so much about assassinations.
>
> What the hell does all that have to do with Von Pein's statement that
> Oswald was looking for police cars when he rode past his rooming house?
>
His point focused only on Hosty. I am pointing out that if the Secret
Service or DPD had Oswald's name on file it would have popped up
instantly as Givens did.
bill_...@excite.com
> >>> "I was merely trying to expose the sheer emptiness of your suggestion that Oswald was looking for police cars surrounding his rooming house." <<<
>
> It's not an empty suggestion at all (IMO). In fact, it's the only
> really logical conclusion to reach for why Oswald would have wanted to
> SLOW HIMSELF DOWN BY ABOUT 5 MINUTES (5 min., 45 sec., in fact, per
> the WC re-creation of the trek from Beckley & Neely to 1026 Beckley)
> by telling Whaley to go three blocks beyond his actual destination
> after just having committed a Presidential murder.
>
> >>> "To suggest that Hosty -- if he'd had Oswald's phone number, which he did not -- would have arranged such a scenario in an effort to apprehend Oswald when he came home after killing the president of the United States assigns a level of stupidity to Hosty and the Dallas Police previously not imagined even in the most farfetched conspiracy theories." <<<
>
> Why on Earth does James Hosty necessarily have to enter into this
> "LOOKING FOR POLICE CARS" equation at all (from LHO's own POV, that
> is)? Obviously, Hosty doesn't have to enter into it whatsoever.
Because Hosty would have been the only possible means by which anyone
in authority could have possbily determined Oswald's rooming house
address....IF Ruth Paine had given the phone number to him, which she
did not.
> Oswald had just shot the President 2.5 miles from 1026 Beckley. He
> knows it's been about a half-hour since he did so. He can't possibly
> know how how many people might have seen him shooting in the window as
> he sticks his rifle out the SN window. And he can't be sure the cops
> aren't already aware of his home address as of 1 PM on 11/22 either.
If Oswald credited super-human abilities of premonition to Hosty and
the DPD, as you seem to suggest, then why didn't he get out of the
taxi at 1026 N. Beckley....or at most a mere half-block down the
street....when he saw there clearly was not a dozen patrol cars
surrounding his rooming house, which is apparently what YOU suggested
that Hosty and the DPD would have done. You are the one who suggested
this scenario, not me.
And again, Oswald could not have cared less if Whaley remembered the
location of his rooming house. Why would he? Are you actually
suggesting Oswald intended to sleep there that night if he wasn't
caught in the meantime?? Or are you proposing that he planned to go
back later that night -- after his police photo from New Orleans was
plastered all over the TV -- for his clothes and belongings before he
took off for parts unknown? You've offered no plausible reason for
Oswald to care if Whaley had learned his rooming house address.
> All of these things are "unknowables" to murderer Oswald at 1:00 PM.
> Why WOULDN'T he possibly suspect some cops were on his tail almost
> immediately?
>
> I can think of no BETTER reason that the "I Better Check The Area For
> Police Before I Depart This Cab" reason for Oswald wanting to
> intentionally slow down his getaway by 5 or more minutes by having the
> cab driver take him 3 blocks beyond 1026 Beckley. Did he want to just
> get a little extra exercise that day by walking the extra 3 blocks?
I've offered you an explanation in my previous post which you still
don't seem to understand. Rather than repeat myself, I encourage you
to go back and reread what I wrote.
John Blubaugh
I do not hold Bugs in the same esteem you do. He holds on to discredited
evidence and he, like you, states his opinions as facts. You are still way
in the minority in your views. 81% of the American people still don't
believe that Oswald acted alone if he acted at all.
JB
Anthony Marsh
>>>> "I was merely trying to expose the sheer emptiness of your suggestion
that Oswald was looking for police cars surrounding his rooming house."
<<<
>
>
> It's not an empty suggestion at all (IMO). In fact, it's the only
> really logical conclusion to reach for why Oswald would have wanted to
> SLOW HIMSELF DOWN BY ABOUT 5 MINUTES (5 min., 45 sec., in fact, per
> the WC re-creation of the trek from Beckley & Neely to 1026 Beckley)
> by telling Whaley to go three blocks beyond his actual destination
> after just having committed a Presidential murder.
>
Wrong. It was typical Oswald regardless of the assassination. He was
paranoid about law enforcement following him around.
>
>
>>>> "To suggest that Hosty -- if he'd had Oswald's phone number, which he did not -- would have arranged such a scenario in an effort to apprehend Oswald when he came home after killing the president of the United States assigns a level of stupidity to Hosty and the Dallas Police previously not imagined even in the most farfetched conspiracy theories." <<<
>
>
>
> Why on Earth does James Hosty necessarily have to enter into this
> "LOOKING FOR POLICE CARS" equation at all (from LHO's own POV, that
> is)? Obviously, Hosty doesn't have to enter into it whatsoever.
>
> Oswald had just shot the President 2.5 miles from 1026 Beckley. He
> knows it's been about a half-hour since he did so. He can't possibly
> know how how many people might have seen him shooting in the window as
> he sticks his rifle out the SN window. And he can't be sure the cops
> aren't already aware of his home address as of 1 PM on 11/22 either.
>
> All of these things are "unknowables" to murderer Oswald at 1:00 PM.
> Why WOULDN'T he possibly suspect some cops were on his tail almost
> immediately?
>
> I can think of no BETTER reason that the "I Better Check The Area For
> Police Before I Depart This Cab" reason for Oswald wanting to
> intentionally slow down his getaway by 5 or more minutes by having the
> cab driver take him 3 blocks beyond 1026 Beckley. Did he want to just
> get a little extra exercise that day by walking the extra 3 blocks?
>
It is not to slow down by 5 minutes. It is to check his rooming house to
see if there is a stakeout waiting for him.
David Von Pein
in authority could have possbily determined Oswald's rooming house
address....IF Ruth Paine had given the phone number to him, which she did
not." <<<
Meaningless argument....because we're talking about what Oswald would have
been thinking at the time. He can't possibly know all the potential forces
that might be surrounding him a half-hour after he shot the President.
Hosty doesn't need to enter into it at all.
Paranoia on LHO's part is probably going to start sinking in (I would
think anyway). He just shot JFK....therefore everybody in the world is
going to be looking for the person who just shot the President. And who
WAS that person? Lee H. Oswald. (And that's a really good reason to start
getting paranoid about the cops if you ask me.)
>>> "You've offered no plausible reason for Oswald to care if Whaley had
learned his rooming house address." <<<
Tony did it for me earlier -- i.e., cops wanting to know where taxi
drivers dropped their passengers.
All of this Monday-morning QBing is merely a parlor game anyway. The
bottom line facts are: Oswald killed Kennedy and Oswald did tell Whaley to
drive 3 blocks beyond his home.
The "Why?" portion of the scenario can never be answered to everybody's
satisfaction. Nor does it need to be, of course, to decide whether or not
Lee Harvey Oswald was a double-murderer.
bill_...@excite.com
> >>> "Because Hosty would have been the only possible means by which anyone
>
> in authority could have possbily determined Oswald's rooming house
> address....IF Ruth Paine had given the phone number to him, which she did
> not." <<<
>
> Meaningless argument....because we're talking about what Oswald would have
> been thinking at the time. He can't possibly know all the potential forces
> that might be surrounding him a half-hour after he shot the President.
> Hosty doesn't need to enter into it at all.
Wrong yet again. You still don't seem to get it. For the third time --
or is it the fourth? - Oswald knew that he'd never shared his rooming
house address with anyone....and that he'd shared the only means of
determining his address - his phone number - with Ruth Paine, who might or
might not have shared it with Hosty during the past week....so that Oswald
knew if he encountered any unpleasant surprise at his rooming house, it
would have been solely because of Hosty....whose unmarked car with a
certain license number he undoubtedly searched for as Whaley drove him
along N. Beckley.
> Paranoia on LHO's part is probably going to start sinking in (I would
> think anyway). He just shot JFK....therefore everybody in the world is
> going to be looking for the person who just shot the President. And who
> WAS that person? Lee H. Oswald. (And that's a really good reason to start
> getting paranoid about the cops if you ask me.)
That argument, of course, is completely circular. If he was "paranoid,"
why would he risk his freedom to return to his rooming house at all?
> >>> "You've offered no plausible reason for Oswald to care if Whaley had
>
> learned his rooming house address." <<<
>
> Tony did it for me earlier -- i.e., cops wanting to know where taxi
> drivers dropped their passengers.
But again, for the third time...or is it the fourth?...why would Oswald --
from HIS point of view -- give a damn if Whaley told the police anything
at all about dropping him off at 1026 N. Beckley? Again, do you honestly
believe Oswald intended to return to his rooming house later that night or
the next day?? For what conceivable purpose?? To pack his bags for
Mexico?? You seem to struggle with that question because you can't seem
to offer a plausible reason for Oswald not wanting Whaley to know where he
lived. Yet you apparently insist that was the case.
> All of this Monday-morning QBing is merely a parlor game anyway. The
> bottom line facts are: Oswald killed Kennedy and Oswald did tell Whaley to
> drive 3 blocks beyond his home.
>
> The "Why?" portion of the scenario can never be answered to everybody's
> satisfaction. Nor does it need to be, of course, to decide whether or not
> Lee Harvey Oswald was a double-murderer.
And I submit you started this parlor game by proposing a bizarre scenario
involving police cars camped out at 1026 N. Beckley to apprehend Oswald as
he returned to his rooming house....with Hosty and the police apparently
hoping Oswald would casually walk up to his front door before he noticed
there were police cars parked everywhere.
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 25, 11:38 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> "I was merely trying to expose the sheer emptiness of your suggestion that Oswald was looking for police cars surrounding his rooming house." <<<
>> It's not an empty suggestion at all (IMO). In fact, it's the only
>> really logical conclusion to reach for why Oswald would have wanted to
>> SLOW HIMSELF DOWN BY ABOUT 5 MINUTES (5 min., 45 sec., in fact, per
>> the WC re-creation of the trek from Beckley & Neely to 1026 Beckley)
>> by telling Whaley to go three blocks beyond his actual destination
>> after just having committed a Presidential murder.
>>
>>>>> "To suggest that Hosty -- if he'd had Oswald's phone number, which he did not -- would have arranged such a scenario in an effort to apprehend Oswald when he came home after killing the president of the United States assigns a level of stupidity to Hosty and the Dallas Police previously not imagined even in the most farfetched conspiracy theories." <<<
>> Why on Earth does James Hosty necessarily have to enter into this
>> "LOOKING FOR POLICE CARS" equation at all (from LHO's own POV, that
>> is)? Obviously, Hosty doesn't have to enter into it whatsoever.
>
> Because Hosty would have been the only possible means by which anyone
> in authority could have possbily determined Oswald's rooming house
> address....IF Ruth Paine had given the phone number to him, which she
> did not.
>
I wonder if Frazier knew the rooming house address?
>> Oswald had just shot the President 2.5 miles from 1026 Beckley. He
>> knows it's been about a half-hour since he did so. He can't possibly
>> know how how many people might have seen him shooting in the window as
>> he sticks his rifle out the SN window. And he can't be sure the cops
>> aren't already aware of his home address as of 1 PM on 11/22 either.
>
> If Oswald credited super-human abilities of premonition to Hosty and
> the DPD, as you seem to suggest, then why didn't he get out of the
> taxi at 1026 N. Beckley....or at most a mere half-block down the
> street....when he saw there clearly was not a dozen patrol cars
> surrounding his rooming house, which is apparently what YOU suggested
> that Hosty and the DPD would have done. You are the one who suggested
> this scenario, not me.
>
Just getting out at 1026 N. Beckley when he does not see dozens of
police cars gets him gunned down by the undercover agents staking it out.