The Basic, In-A-(Lone) Nutshell Facts Surrounding The Single-Bullet Theory
David Von Pein
COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
THEORY";
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
"IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
US?
LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on the official evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case, all
of the following things are true:
1.) President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally were
shot by rifle bullets in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on Friday, November 22,
1963.
2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number C2766)
was located inside a building which overlooked the assassination site
(the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC were being wounded
by gunfire.
3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)
4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.
5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
found inside these areas of JFK's body either.
8.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found inside the body
of Governor Connally after the shooting. The only bullet, anywhere,
that can possibly be connected with Connally's wounds is Bullet CE399.
9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
entering the back of John B. Connally.
===========================
#1 through #9 above add up to a logical, common-sense short
explanation to the events in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963
(excluding the head shot that killed President Kennedy).
The nine points above, in my common-sense view, make the Single-Bullet
Theory more than just a "theory" -- it's almost certainly the only
conceivable way that President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John
Connally were wounded on Elm Street in Dallas in 1963.
Any alternative theory that must replace the SBT would be a theory
that is replete with far more guesswork and unexplainable occurrences
than the Single-Bullet Theory possesses.
Such an alternative theory must include multiple disappearing bullets,
plus several "SBT"-like coincidences at the same time. Is that very
likely? Or logical? I say it is not.
The Single-Bullet Theory is based on the EVIDENCE in the actual John
F. Kennedy murder case, as investigated by the Commission assigned to
look into the assassination by President Lyndon Johnson.
And the SBT, in addition to being grounded in the known evidence
surrounding the case, is also based on a whole lot of regular,
ordinary common sense as well.
No "Anti-SBT" scenario has ever come close to matching the Warren
Commission's Single-Bullet Conclusion in the "Evidence" department.
Nor has any alternate theory come close to equalling the SBT in the
"Reasonable", "Workable", "Believable", and "Common Sense" categories
as well.
The Single-Bullet Theory FITS.
The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS.
The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT.
David Von Pein
March 2007
=====================================================
"Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck
by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of
any separate bullet hitting Connally." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; 1986
~~~~~~~~~~
"It's a straight line....it {the SBT} is the only way it COULD have
happened." -- Dale K. Myers; 2004
~~~~~~~~~~
"You call it the theory; I call it the conclusion; it was a theory
until we found the facts; that's why I refer to it as the Single-
Bullet Conclusion." -- Arlen Specter; 1965
Andrew Mason
David Von Pein wrote:
So far so good.
>9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
>rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
>location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
>into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
>choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
>entering the back of John B. Connally.
>
>
This is where the evidentiary support for the SBT is a extremely weak. I
am glad to see that you admit it is based on an interpretation of the
Zfilm. The least you could do, however, is point out that this
interpretation does not fit the witness evidence as to the shot pattern
or as to the time of the first shot or what the first shot hit.
>===========================
>
>#1 through #9 above add up to a logical, common-sense short
>explanation to the events in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963
>(excluding the head shot that killed President Kennedy).
>
>The nine points above, in my common-sense view, make the Single-Bullet
>Theory more than just a "theory" -- it's almost certainly the only
>conceivable way that President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John
>Connally were wounded on Elm Street in Dallas in 1963.
>
>Any alternative theory that must replace the SBT would be a theory
>that is replete with far more guesswork and unexplainable occurrences
>than the Single-Bullet Theory possesses.
>
>Such an alternative theory must include multiple disappearing bullets,
>plus several "SBT"-like coincidences at the same time. Is that very
>likely? Or logical? I say it is not.
>
>The Single-Bullet Theory is based on the EVIDENCE in the actual John
>F. Kennedy murder case, as investigated by the Commission assigned to
>look into the assassination by President Lyndon Johnson.
>
>And the SBT, in addition to being grounded in the known evidence
>surrounding the case, is also based on a whole lot of regular,
>ordinary common sense as well.
>
>
If you call rejecting the witnesses who confidently recalled the
1........2...3 shot pattern (44-10-6), the witnesses who recalled seing
JFK react to being hit by the first shot (16-0), and the witnesses who
put the first shot after z190 (22+ - 0), without being able to say why
or how they could all be wrong, "common sense".
>No "Anti-SBT" scenario has ever come close to matching the Warren
>Commission's Single-Bullet Conclusion in the "Evidence" department.
>Nor has any alternate theory come close to equalling the SBT in the
>"Reasonable", "Workable", "Believable", and "Common Sense" categories
>as well.
>
>
The only thing that supports the SBT is the belief, based on the zfilm,
that JBC was reacting to being hit in the back at about z228. That
belief conflicts with a lot of evidence. You should at least acknowledge
the conflict. I am not sure that you understand the conflict.
>The Single-Bullet Theory FITS.
>The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS.
>The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT.
>
>
Not quite:
The Single-Bullet Theory FITS none of the witness evidence and strains the physical evidence.
The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS only if you reject a lot of very good evidence, ignore the trajectory difficulties, lack of evidence and explanation for a missed shot, and gloss over the bullet and wound characteristics.
The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT, only if you believe you can determine what happened from the grainy soundless zfilm better than the people who were watching the events live.
Andrew Mason
tomnln
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/single_bullet.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1173420825.6...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
aeff...@hotmail.com
Given the *fact* some believe the Zapruder film a complete fabrication,
makes the above rather suspect, not to mention Myers cartoon as *useless*
Do a little in-camera original [alleged] Z-film forensic film testing,
determine the results, and we'll do lunch. Till then, I wish Bugliosi well
-- the Posner debunkers are alive, well and waiting and NOT with
baited-breath....
Cliff
http://video.jfk.org/George_Jefferies_film.wmv
As per Posner's SBT.
Jacket down on Elm St....
http://www.jfk-online.com/Towner.mpg
Four plus shots, conspiracy.
cv
Herbert Blenner
> THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
> COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
> THEORY";
>
> CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
> "IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>
> BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
> US?
>
> LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>
>
> Based on the official evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case, all
> of the following things are true:
>
> 1.) President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally were
> shot by rifle bullets in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on Friday, November 22,
> 1963.
>
> 2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number C2766)
> was located inside a building which overlooked the assassination site
> (the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC were being wounded
> by gunfire.
Commander James J. Humes attributed President Kennedy's eccentric oval
entry wounds to tangential entries by bullets that could not have been
fired from the TSBD and struck an upright Kennedy. In particular the
dimensions of the bullet hole in Kennedy's back infers an incidence angle
of about 45 degree. This striking velocity would place the shooter equally
far above as behind an upright victim.
>
> 3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
> inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
> And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
> Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
> Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
> where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)
I read that Darrell Tomlinson did not identify Commission Exhibit #399 as
the bullet found in Parkland Hospital. If this is a factoid then please
post the relevant section of the WC testimony of Tomlinson. I thank you in
advance.
>
> 4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.
Ballistic testing positively linked CE399 to the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle,
s.n. C2766. However, linkage of this rifle to Lee Harvey Oswald via Alek
J. Hidell has a hole. Namely they never showed that one and only one
person used the alias.
>
> 5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
> inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
A finding of organic matter impressed in the soft lead of the exposed base
would have been evidence of transiting Connally. They found none in CE399
while the science of the early sixties detected organic matter in the
atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn from distances of 400,000,000 and
700,000,000 million miles.
>
> 6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
> the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
> Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
> firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
Identification of a person from approximately eighty feet is among the
weakest of eyewitness testimony. However, the witness did not observe the
suspect straight on. Instead they viewed the suspect while looking up at
an angle more than 45 degree. From this vantage point many people could
not recognize their mate from a mere distance of a few feet.
>
> 7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
> back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
> found inside these areas of JFK's body either.
No bullets were reported found in the upper back or neck of John Kennedy.
Nevertheless at least one autopsy witness bucked the official version and
reported a bullet found near Kennedy's body. Further the autopsy
documented considerable damage to Kennedy's throat. Not surprisingly, Dr.
Gregory attempted to dismiss this damage to an exploratory surgery.
>
> 8.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found inside the body
> of Governor Connally after the shooting. The only bullet, anywhere,
> that can possibly be connected with Connally's wounds is Bullet CE399.
They attributed clothing fibers in Connally's wrist wound to transit by a
bullet with ragged edges. These edges in the soft lead were prime
locations for embedment of organic matter by stress of the order of
thousands of pounds per square inch. Nevertheless, CE399 tested negative
for organic matter.
>
> 9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
> rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
> location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
> into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
> choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
> entering the back of John B. Connally.
Given the sizes and the alignments of the major axes of the elliptical
back wounds with the spinal columns of the victims, a single bullet event
is trashed. Is this the reason why SB advocates always omit incidence
angle as a consideration?
Confront reality the original version of the SBT advanced by the WC had
bullets entering the backs of Kennedy and Connally at steep downward
angles. These directions at the entrance wounds cannot be reconciled with
a trajectory from the TSBD. The HSCA recognized this fatal flaw and
revised the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and the cause of
Connally's elliptical back wound.
>
> ===========================
>
> #1 through #9 above add up to a logical, common-sense short
> explanation to the events in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963
> (excluding the head shot that killed President Kennedy).
>
> The nine points above, in my common-sense view, make the Single-Bullet
> Theory more than just a "theory" -- it's almost certainly the only
> conceivable way that President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John
> Connally were wounded on Elm Street in Dallas in 1963.
>
> Any alternative theory that must replace the SBT would be a theory
> that is replete with far more guesswork and unexplainable occurrences
> than the Single-Bullet Theory possesses.
The foundations for a SBT were so weak that the HSCA was compelled to
change the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound. Even worse the FPP
contradicted accepted forensic principles and falsely attributed the
elliptical wound on Connally's back to yawed bullet.
>
> Such an alternative theory must include multiple disappearing bullets,
> plus several "SBT"-like coincidences at the same time. Is that very
> likely? Or logical? I say it is not.
I invite you to show how you have determined that the reported shapes,
sizes and locations of the wounds on Kennedy and Connally were physically
possible.
>
> The Single-Bullet Theory is based on the EVIDENCE in the actual John
> F. Kennedy murder case, as investigated by the Commission assigned to
> look into the assassination by President Lyndon Johnson.
>
> And the SBT, in addition to being grounded in the known evidence
> surrounding the case, is also based on a whole lot of regular,
> ordinary common sense as well.
The HSCA had to change the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and
rewrite the book on forensic analysis in their attempt to rectify fatal
problems with the original version of the SBT.
>
> No "Anti-SBT" scenario has ever come close to matching the Warren
> Commission's Single-Bullet Conclusion in the "Evidence" department.
> Nor has any alternate theory come close to equalling the SBT in the
> "Reasonable", "Workable", "Believable", and "Common Sense" categories
> as well.
Are you claiming that the HSCA revision has not come close to matching
the WC version?
>
> The Single-Bullet Theory FITS.
> The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS.
> The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT.
SBT describes what could have but did not happen.
Herbert
Herbert Blenner
> On Mar 9, 10:30?am, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
> > COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
> > THEORY";
>
> > CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
> > "IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>
> > BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
> > US?
>
> > LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>
The distances should be 400 and 700 million or 400,000,000 and
700,000,000 miles.
> Herbert- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
David Von Pein
rather suspect, not to mention Myers' cartoon as *useless*." <<<
A large-sized "LOL" is definitely needed here!
The FACT that some people "believe" (falsely, of course) that the Z- Film
is "wholly fabricated" (words from the back cover of Mr. Fetzer's crazy
"Z-Film Hoax" book) certainly doesn't prove that the film itself is
"wholly fabricated". It's merely a belief (myth) in some people's silly
minds.
But you do bring up a point re. "Z-Film Fakery" that I had not thought
much about heretofore. And that is.....
If the Zapruder Film has been (some how, some way) "wholly fabricated",
and Dale Myers' animation has been based primarily on this "fabricated"
film -- then what do you think the odds would be that Mr. Myers' animation
would be able to perfectly line up the men in the car and trace the SBT
shot back beautifully to the center of the southeast corner window on the
6th Floor of the Book Depository -- ALL WHILE USING A
MADE-UP-FROM-WHOLECLOTH MOVIE AS A GUIDE?!
I guess those film-fakers were really, really good at their detailed craft
indeed! Because the animated "overlays" done by Mr. Myers (almost entirely
based on that film) perfectly support a theory that CTers think is
completely impossible. And if you want to believe the nutty theory of
"Z-Film Forgery", you'll have to believe that the film- fakers were so
good they could line up the (faked) Kennedy and the (faked) Connally in
the automobile just perfectly to make Myers' 3D animation model support
the SBT to a tee.
It's just a shame that those expert film-fakers, who managed to fabricate
the film in a nice pro-SBT manner, couldn't figure out the most obvious
thing of all that needed "faked" -- the JFK rear head snap.
I guess instead of bothering with that critical "head snap", the film-
fakers must've been too darn busy manipulating Mary Moorman's footwear and
also manipulating JFK & JBC in the limo so as to match Dale K. Myers' 3D
computer model (a model that the forgers must have somehow known was
coming in the Digital Age, decades after the fakery was done).
Go figure.
luthie...@yahoo.com
ask the questions here too since he has no answer for it.
''This is the most significant lie in the whole Warren Commission
report,'' said Robert D. Morningstar, a computer systems specialist in
NewYork City who said he has studied the assassination since it occurred
and written an Internet book about it." If the bullet had hit Kennedy in
the back, it could not have struck Connolly in the way the commission said
it did, he said.
this revelation on 07-02-97 means that all their data prior to this
date is invalid. includes:
HSCA analysis (1979)
Rockefeller Commission analysis (1975)
Ramsey Clark Panel Analysis (1968)
and any other data prior to this revelation...
On Mar 9, 10:30 am, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
> COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
> THEORY";
>
> CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
> "IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>
> BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
> US?
>
> LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/zapruder%20film.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1173501290.8...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
luthie...@yahoo.com
"tampering with evidanece and relocating neck wound"
On Mar 10, 1:15 am, "luthier4l...@yahoo.com" <luthier4l...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> > Bullet Conclusion." -- Arlen Specter; 1965- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
Yep. Some guy named Morningstar said the SBT is false, so he must be
right. I'll just take his word for it.
Well, I guess I'd really better tell VB to stop the presses
now...Morningstar has spoken!
But, if it's too late to stop the "RECLAIMING HISTORY" presses, maybe
I can get Vince to add just one more page at the very end of the
book....a page that simply says.....
"Never mind."
Thanks, Luthier. You've spared me so much pain via your fabulous
"Morningstar Said It So It's Gotta Be True" revelation.
You're a peach.
Anthony Marsh
> This is the same post DVP put on another site and ran away from so i will
> ask the questions here too since he has no answer for it.
>
> ''This is the most significant lie in the whole Warren Commission
> report,'' said Robert D. Morningstar, a computer systems specialist in
> NewYork City who said he has studied the assassination since it occurred
> and written an Internet book about it." If the bullet had hit Kennedy in
> the back, it could not have struck Connolly in the way the commission said
> it did, he said.
>
Morningstar is a new-age kook who believes the Zapruder film is a fake
and then sees things in it which no one else can see, because they
aren't there.
r2bz...@sbcglobal.net
> David Von Pein wrote:
> >THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
> >COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
> >THEORY";
>
> >CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
> >"IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>
> >BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
> >US?
>
> >LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>
***The Zapruder film is the best witness. The grains of film captured the
event. Every time the film is played, it has no memory loss or lapses in
recollection. The film is mute, but Connally's expression changes at
Z224. The movement of his body is sudden and violent. The expression on
JFK's face at Z225 is one of shock, followed by rapid reflexive movements,
which mimmic the simultaneous rapid reflexive movement of Connally's right
arm.
As Connally turns around to his right, his right hand bends over limp,
holding his Stetson. Jackie sits staring at Connally as he yells. I
think he is yelling because he is shot and in pain, not because he is
simply trying to warn Jack and Jackie that someone is shooting a them.
The look on Jackie's face indicates she is puzzled why JBC is yelling.
If one looks at the photo from the gunsight camera of Z225, in the WR, the
Connally stand in is in the line of fire of a bullet fired into the mid
line of the JFK stand in. The two may not be positioned perfectly and
they are not sitting in the murder scene limo, but there is enough to
suggest that a person firing from that position, at that moment, would
have hit both occupants.
***Ron Judge
r2bz...@sbcglobal.net
wrote:
> This is the same post DVP put on another site and ran away from so i will
> ask the questions here too since he has no answer for it.
>
> ''This is the most significant lie in the whole Warren Commission
> report,'' said Robert D. Morningstar, a computer systems specialist in
> NewYork City who said he has studied the assassination since it occurred
> and written an Internet book about it." If the bullet had hit Kennedy in
> the back, it could not have struck Connolly in the way the commission said
> it did, he said.
>
> this revelation on 07-02-97 means that all their data prior to this
> date is invalid. includes:
> HSCA analysis (1979)
> Rockefeller Commission analysis (1975)
> Ramsey Clark Panel Analysis (1968)
>
> and any other data prior to this revelation...
>
***I guess his data has been invalidated by the Discovery Channel, which
broadcast a test in which a replica of JFK was shot in the back and the
bullet hit the Connally replica in the far right back, striking the rib
cage as it exited.
***Ron Judge
Peter Makres
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message news:1173501290.8...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
Excellent posts as usual, David. I would only change one word in your
original post: To borrow a quote from Dale Myers' comment in the 2003
Peter Jennings special: "It's not even a single bullet theory; it's a
single bullet FACT".
Blast away, CT'ers..the fact will remain a fact.
PM
eca...@tx.rr.com
rare bird indeed.. A CTer sans
a conspiracy theory:
HEALY ON:-------------
"Given the *fact* some believe the Zapruder film
a complete fabrication, makes the above rather
suspect, not to mention Myers cartoon as *useless*"
HEALY OFF-------------
There you have it folks..
"some believe" "rather suspect"
"Myers cartoon".. The words of
CTer with a CT and just plain
out-of-ammo.. Perhaps Mr Healy
will enlighten us as to just
where the Z film was altered..
Or was a "complete fabrication"..
Or are we back to "some believe?"
MR ;~D
Ed Cage 1624Mar1007
On Mar 9, 8:38 pm, aeffe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 9, 7:30 am, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
> > COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
> > THEORY";
>
> > CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
> > "IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>
> > BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
> > US?
>
> > LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
"Peter Makres" <pmak...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:45f30624$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
===============================================================
> Blast away, CT'ers..the fact will remain a fact.
>
> PM
"Well, your President is NOT a Crook" (Nixon)
==============================================================
Anthony Marsh
> May I present David Healy.. A
> rare bird indeed.. A CTer sans
> a conspiracy theory:
>
May I present Mr. Ed Cage....
A rare duck. A WC defender who believes
that Oswald was the lone shooter, but thinks
that he was acting on behalf of the Russians.
Herbert Blenner
Do you care to address the objections ignorned by David?
> 2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number C2766)
> was located inside a building which overlooked the assassination site
> (the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC were being wounded
> by gunfire.
Commander James J. Humes attributed President Kennedy's eccentric oval
entry wounds to tangential entries by bullets that could not have been
fired from the TSBD and struck an upright Kennedy. In particular the
dimensions of the bullet hole in Kennedy's back infers an incidence angle
of about 45 degree. This striking velocity would place the shooter equally
far above as behind an upright victim.
> 3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
> inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
> And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
> Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
> Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
> where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)
I read that Darrell Tomlinson did not identify Commission Exhibit #399 as
the bullet found in Parkland Hospital. If this is a factoid then please
post the relevant section of the WC testimony of Tomlinson. I thank you in
advance.
> 4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.
Ballistic testing positively linked CE399 to the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle,
s.n. C2766. However, linkage of this rifle to Lee Harvey Oswald via Alek
J. Hidell has a hole. Namely they never showed that one and only one
person used the alias.
> 5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
> inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
A finding of organic matter impressed in the soft lead of the exposed base
would have been evidence of transiting Connally. They found none in CE399
while the science of the early sixties detected organic matter in the
atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn from distances of 400,000,000 and
700,000,000 miles.
> 6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
> the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
> Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
> firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
Identification of a person from approximately eighty feet is among the
weakest of eyewitness testimony. However, the witness did not observe the
suspect straight on. Instead they viewed the suspect while looking up at
an angle more than 45 degree. From this vantage point many people could
not recognize their mate from a mere distance of a few feet.
> 7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
> back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
> found inside these areas of JFK's body either.
No bullets were reported found in the upper back or neck of John Kennedy.
Nevertheless at least one autopsy witness bucked the official version and
reported a bullet found near Kennedy's body. Further the autopsy
documented considerable damage to Kennedy's throat. Not surprisingly, Dr.
Gregory attempted to dismiss this damage to an exploratory surgery.
> 8.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found inside the body
> of Governor Connally after the shooting. The only bullet, anywhere,
> that can possibly be connected with Connally's wounds is Bullet CE399.
They attributed clothing fibers in Connally's wrist wound to transit by a
bullet with ragged edges. These edges in the soft lead were prime
locations for embedment of organic matter by stress of the order of
thousands of pounds per square inch. Nevertheless, CE399 tested negative
for organic matter.
> 9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
> rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
> location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
> into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
> choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
> entering the back of John B. Connally.
Given the sizes and the alignments of the major axes of the elliptical
back wounds with the spinal columns of the victims, a single bullet event
is trashed. Is this the reason why SB advocates always omit incidence
angle as a consideration?
Confront reality the original version of the SBT advanced by the WC had
bullets entering the backs of Kennedy and Connally at steep downward
angles. These directions at the entrance wounds cannot be reconciled with
a trajectory from the TSBD. The HSCA recognized this fatal flaw and
revised the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and the cause of
Connally's elliptical back wound.
> ===========================
> #1 through #9 above add up to a logical, common-sense short
> explanation to the events in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963
> (excluding the head shot that killed President Kennedy).
> The nine points above, in my common-sense view, make the Single-Bullet
> Theory more than just a "theory" -- it's almost certainly the only
> conceivable way that President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John
> Connally were wounded on Elm Street in Dallas in 1963.
> Any alternative theory that must replace the SBT would be a theory
> that is replete with far more guesswork and unexplainable occurrences
> than the Single-Bullet Theory possesses.
The foundations for a SBT were so weak that the HSCA was compelled to
change the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound. Even worse the FPP
contradicted accepted forensic principles and falsely attributed the
elliptical wound on Connally's back to yawed bullet.
> Such an alternative theory must include multiple disappearing bullets,
> plus several "SBT"-like coincidences at the same time. Is that very
> likely? Or logical? I say it is not.
I invite you to show how you have determined that the reported shapes,
sizes and locations of the wounds on Kennedy and Connally were physically
possible.
> The Single-Bullet Theory is based on the EVIDENCE in the actual John
> F. Kennedy murder case, as investigated by the Commission assigned to
> look into the assassination by President Lyndon Johnson.
> And the SBT, in addition to being grounded in the known evidence
> surrounding the case, is also based on a whole lot of regular,
> ordinary common sense as well.
The HSCA had to change the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and
rewrite the book on forensic analysis in their attempt to rectify fatal
problems with the original version of the SBT.
> No "Anti-SBT" scenario has ever come close to matching the Warren
> Commission's Single-Bullet Conclusion in the "Evidence" department.
> Nor has any alternate theory come close to equalling the SBT in the
> "Reasonable", "Workable", "Believable", and "Common Sense" categories
> as well.
Are you claiming that the HSCA revision has not come close to matching the
WC version?
> The Single-Bullet Theory FITS.
> The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS.
> The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT.
SBT describes what could have but did not happen.
Herbert
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 9, 10:30�am, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
>> COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
>> THEORY";
>>
>> CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
>> "IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>>
>> BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
>> US?
>>
>> LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�-
>>
>> Based on the official evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case, all
>> of the following things are true:
>>
>> 1.) President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally were
>> shot by rifle bullets in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on Friday, November 22,
>> 1963.
>>
>> 2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number C2766)
>> was located inside a building which overlooked the assassination site
>> (the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC were being wounded
>> by gunfire.
>
> Commander James J. Humes attributed President Kennedy's eccentric oval
> entry wounds to tangential entries by bullets that could not have been
> fired from the TSBD and struck an upright Kennedy. In particular the
> dimensions of the bullet hole in Kennedy's back infers an incidence angle
Wrong word. Infer is something YOU do, only in this case it is more like
a guess. The wound was not that oval and its shape did not imply an
angle of 45 degrees.
> of about 45 degree. This striking velocity would place the shooter equally
> far above as behind an upright victim.
>
>> 3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
>> inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
>> And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
>> Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
>> Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
>> where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)
>
> I read that Darrell Tomlinson did not identify Commission Exhibit #399 as
> the bullet found in Parkland Hospital. If this is a factoid then please
> post the relevant section of the WC testimony of Tomlinson. I thank you in
> advance.
>
He said that it did not look like the type of bullet he remembered.
>> 4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.
>
> Ballistic testing positively linked CE399 to the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle,
> s.n. C2766. However, linkage of this rifle to Lee Harvey Oswald via Alek
> J. Hidell has a hole. Namely they never showed that one and only one
> person used the alias.
>
Meaningless. The backyard photos link only that particular M-C to
Oswald. Maybe you could come up with a theory that A. J. Hidell was a
fellow conspirator of Oswald's or that Oswald stole his rifle from A. J.
Hidell.
>> 5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
>> inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
>
> A finding of organic matter impressed in the soft lead of the exposed base
> would have been evidence of transiting Connally. They found none in CE399
> while the science of the early sixties detected organic matter in the
> atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn from distances of 400,000,000 and
> 700,000,000 million miles.
>
Jeez, that's a long distance!
>> 6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
>> the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
>> Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
>> firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
>
> Identification of a person from approximately eighty feet is among the
> weakest of eyewitness testimony. However, the witness did not observe the
> suspect straight on. Instead they viewed the suspect while looking up at
> an angle more than 45 degree. From this vantage point many people could
> not recognize their mate from a mere distance of a few feet.
>
What angle? You seem to fixated on 45 degrees.
>> 7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
>> back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
>> found inside these areas of JFK's body either.
>
> No bullets were reported found in the upper back or neck of John Kennedy.
> Nevertheless at least one autopsy witness bucked the official version and
> reported a bullet found near Kennedy's body. Further the autopsy
> documented considerable damage to Kennedy's throat. Not surprisingly, Dr.
> Gregory attempted to dismiss this damage to an exploratory surgery.
>
So what? Hoover told LBJ that a bullet fell out of the President's head.
Does that make it a fact?
>> 8.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found inside the body
>> of Governor Connally after the shooting. The only bullet, anywhere,
>> that can possibly be connected with Connally's wounds is Bullet CE399.
>
> They attributed clothing fibers in Connally's wrist wound to transit by a
> bullet with ragged edges. These edges in the soft lead were prime
> locations for embedment of organic matter by stress of the order of
> thousands of pounds per square inch. Nevertheless, CE399 tested negative
> for organic matter.
>
>> 9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
>> rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
>> location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
>> into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
>> choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
>> entering the back of John B. Connally.
>
> Given the sizes and the alignments of the major axes of the elliptical
> back wounds with the spinal columns of the victims, a single bullet event
> is trashed. Is this the reason why SB advocates always omit incidence
> angle as a consideration?
>
Because your analysis is meaningless.
> Confront reality the original version of the SBT advanced by the WC had
> bullets entering the backs of Kennedy and Connally at steep downward
> angles. These directions at the entrance wounds cannot be reconciled with
> a trajectory from the TSBD. The HSCA recognized this fatal flaw and
> revised the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and the cause of
> Connally's elliptical back wound.
>
>
Look at the damn photo.
Andrew Mason
I agree completely. The bullet exiting JFK's neck had to hit JBC. But
that does not justify the SBT.
Andrew Mason
>
> ***Ron Judge
David Von Pein
---------------------------------------------------
A CONSPIRACY THEORIST SAID -- "The question was one of the {Connally}
thigh wound, and if DVP could tell us how the wound was caused."
DVP SAYS -- The math is fairly simple (unless you do the math with a
conspiracy theorist's calculator, then it becomes overly and
needlessly complicated, of course).....
Bullet CE399 entered John Connally's back, exited his chest, and then
struck his right wrist. Let's look at some HSCA testimony.....
~~~~~
MR. WOLF: "You can, however, today state for the first time
scientifically that CE399 did cause the injuries to Governor
Connally's wrist?"
DR. VINCENT GUINN: "Yes sir, those two match so closely that I would
say that such was the case."
MR. WOLF: "Would you state that your conclusion is more probable than
not, highly probable, or what is the degree of certainty of your
conclusion?"
DR. GUINN: "I would say highly probable, yes. I would not want to say
how high, whether it was 99 percent or 90 percent or 99.9 percent. I
can't make a calculation like that."
MR. WOLF: "You would state it is highly probable that the injuries to
Governor Connally's wrist came from the so-called pristine bullet?"
DR. GUINN: "That is correct."
~~~~~
.....That bullet (CE399) then exited the wrist in a virtually-whole
condition and went -- somewhere -- correct? I think even a rabid CTer
who hates the SBT like many people despise their mother-in-law would
have to agree that the bullet that struck John Connally's wrist did
not STAY in his wrist and it went someplace else. So, WHERE could it
have gone?
The bullet was on about a 25-degree downward trajectory after it
passed through Connally's chest wall (as it almost perfectly followed
the 25-degree declination of the Governor's fifth rib, per the
testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw).
Now I'm not saying the bullet couldn't have been deflected upward (or
further downward for that matter) as a result of hitting the wrist of
Connally. Sure, it could have deflected off of the wrist bone. But if
it did, and yet did not go into JBC's thigh....where did the bullet
go? Did it conveniently deflect upward off the wrist and bounce out of
the car (where it was never recovered)?
That theory is possible, sure. But it becomes less and less probable
when all the evidence and all of Connally's wounds are taken into
consideration.
And if a fragment from a non-CE399 missile caused the thigh wound,
CTers have to accept TWO things that are quite interesting and
coincidental in nature (without any real proof that they happened,
because there are NO BULLETS OR FRAGMENTS IN EVIDENCE in this regard
that would verify that JBC's thigh was hit by a non-CE399
projectile).....
1.) A CTer would have to believe that a non-399 fragment went into
Connally's thigh, causing a small superficial wound, and then that
fragment (or whole bullet even) was never seen again by anybody.*
* = Or do CTers think that one of the very small fragments found under
Nellie Connally's seat caused the thigh wound to JBC? Or maybe one of
the two larger front-seat fragments caused it?
But, then again, I thought most CTers were of the opinion that those
front-seat fragments (which came out of Oswald's own gun) were
"planted" there later on by the evil cover-up agents who wanted to
frame Oswald. Many CTers do believe that tale. So, obviously, such
fragments (via such a theory) couldn't have wounded Governor Connally
during the actual shooting on November 22.
2.) And CTers would also have to accept the notion that a different
(non-399) missile just happened to hit Connally in a place on his body
(the left thigh) which ALSO just happens to coincide very nicely (in
an "alignment" sort of way) to a place on his body where a bullet
would (or certainly could very easily) have ended up if the Single-
Bullet Theory is a fact.
And that thigh wound just happens to also be a minor, superficial type
of wound that perfectly explains the last remaining part of the SBT
(i.e., the bullet had very little energy left in it after passing
through two bodies and was nearly 'spent' by the time it reached John
Connally's thigh, thus causing only the very minor leg injury).
How can anyone deny the fact that (via a non-SBT shooting scenario)
the "SBT Similarities" are simply amazing. This is much like the other
amazing "coincidence" that CTers are forced to accept in any anti-SBT
proposal -- i.e., the almost perfect "lining up" of the first 3 wounds
that make up the SBT (Kennedy's upper-back wound, Kennedy's throat
wound, and Connally's back wound).
Whenever a CTer offers up alternate theories of pure guesswork
regarding various parts of the SBT (and we're rarely, if ever, treated
to a full-fledged shot-by-shot CT scenario...we usually just get
piecemeal conjecture, like this theory which claims "A Non-CE399
Fragment Must Have Caused Connally's Thigh Wound"), it only serves to
further reinforce the logicality and believability of the Single-
Bullet Conclusion all the more, in my eyes.
Every single element favoring the likelihood of just one bullet
causing the seven wounds to JFK and JBC is right there for all to see
and study; and yet so many conspiracists want to throw common sense
out the nearest window whenever discussing the subject.
I still can't help but wonder....why?
Herbert Blenner
> >> THERE'S PROBABLY NO MORE HOTLY-CONTESTED AND DEBATED SUB-TOPIC WHEN IT
> >> COMES TO THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION THAN THE "SINGLE-BULLET
> >> THEORY";
>
> >> CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ENJOY TRASHING THE S.B.T., CLAIMING IT IS
> >> "IMPOSSIBLE" OR "MAKE BELIEVE";
>
> >> BUT WHERE DOES THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (AND COMMON SENSE) ACTUALLY LEAD
> >> US?
>
> >> LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK......
>
>
> >> Based on the official evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case, all
> >> of the following things are true:
>
> >> 1.) President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally were
> >> shot by rifle bullets in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on Friday, November 22,
> >> 1963.
>
> >> 2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number C2766)
> >> was located inside a building which overlooked the assassination site
> >> (the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC were being wounded
> >> by gunfire.
>
> > Commander James J. Humes attributed President Kennedy's eccentric oval
> > entry wounds to tangential entries by bullets that could not have been
> > fired from the TSBD and struck an upright Kennedy. In particular the
> > dimensions of the bullet hole in Kennedy's back infers an incidence angle
>
> Wrong word. Infer is something YOU do, only in this case it is more like
> a guess. The wound was not that oval and its shape did not imply an
> angle of 45 degrees.
Read my words. I said "the dimensions of the bullet hole in Kennedy's back
infers an incidence angle of about 45 degree." How you twist my statement
and come up with "its shape did not imply an angle of 45 degrees" is
beyond pardon. Obviously you cannot deal with simple geometry that infers
the intersection between a cylindrical wound track and the inclined plane
of the skin as that special oval known as an ellipse. If you still have a
semantic objection to my use of infer then go argue with Euclid.
Source: WC testimony of Commander James J. Humes Commander HUMES - These
exhibits again are schematic representations of what we observed at the
time of examining the body of the late President.
Exhibit 385 shows in the low neck an oval wound which excuse me, I wish to
get the measurements correct. This wound was situated just above the upper
border of the scapula, and measured 7 by 4 millimeters, with its long axis
roughly parallel to the long axis of vertical column.
End of source.
Source: Clark Panel
Examination of photographs of anterior and posterior views
of thorax, and anterior, posterior and lateral views of neck
(Photographs 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17, 18, 26, 27, 28, 29,
30, 31, 38, 39, 40, 41).
There is an elliptical penetrating wound of the skin of the
back located approximately 15 cm. medial to the right acromial
process, 5 cm. lateral to the mid-dorsal line and 14 cm. below
the right mastoid process. This wound lies approximately 5.5 cm.
below a transverse fold in the skin of the neck.
End of source.
So the Clark Panel examined an autopsy photograph of the bullet wound
in Kennedy's back and explicitly called it elliptical.
>
> > of about 45 degree. This striking velocity would place the shooter equally
> > far above as behind an upright victim.
>
> >> 3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
> >> inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
> >> And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
> >> Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
> >> Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
> >> where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)
>
> > I read that Darrell Tomlinson did not identify Commission Exhibit #399 as
> > the bullet found in Parkland Hospital. If this is a factoid then please
> > post the relevant section of the WC testimony of Tomlinson. I thank you in
> > advance.
>
> He said that it did not look like the type of bullet he remembered.
>
> >> 4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.
>
> > Ballistic testing positively linked CE399 to the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle,
> > s.n. C2766. However, linkage of this rifle to Lee Harvey Oswald via Alek
> > J. Hidell has a hole. Namely they never showed that one and only one
> > person used the alias.
>
> Meaningless. The backyard photos link only that particular M-C to
> Oswald. Maybe you could come up with a theory that A. J. Hidell was a
> fellow conspirator of Oswald's or that Oswald stole his rifle from A. J.
> Hidell.
A nick on the butt was the sole characteristic which related the rifle in
the photograph to C2766. I wonder if you have written state assemblies and
petitioned for a change in law that identifies a firearm by serial number.
Who knows whether they would enact a Marsh act to identify guns by nicks
on their butts.
>
> >> 5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
> >> inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
>
> > A finding of organic matter impressed in the soft lead of the exposed base
> > would have been evidence of transiting Connally. They found none in CE399
> > while the science of the early sixties detected organic matter in the
> > atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn from distances of 400,000,000 and
> > 700,000,000 million miles.
>
> Jeez, that's a long distance!
The corrected distances are 400 and 700 million or 400,000,000 and
700,000,000 miles.
>
> >> 6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
> >> the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
> >> Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
> >> firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
>
> > Identification of a person from approximately eighty feet is among the
> > weakest of eyewitness testimony. However, the witness did not observe the
> > suspect straight on. Instead they viewed the suspect while looking up at
> > an angle more than 45 degree. From this vantage point many people could
> > not recognize their mate from a mere distance of a few feet.
>
> What angle? You seem to fixated on 45 degrees.
OK, wise guy. Tell us from which sixty foot perch did the witness see
a man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald firing a rifle?
>
> >> 7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
> >> back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
> >> found inside these areas of JFK's body either.
>
> > No bullets were reported found in the upper back or neck of John Kennedy
My analysis is meaningless to someone who ignores geometry.
Carpenters routinely angle their drill to bore an elliptical hole on one
side of a diagonally cut piece so that the hole on the other side is
perfectly round and accepts a standard plug as a cosmetic cover.
Machinists have occasions to punch elliptical holes of precision
dimensions. They accomplish these tasks by using a circular punch whose
diameter equals the length of the minor axis of the elliptical hole and
adjust the striking or incidence angle to obtain the desired length of the
major axis.
In particular the cosine of the incidence angle equals the length of the
minor axis divided by the length of the major axis of the elliptical hole.
So what you call "meaningless" is common practice among industrious
people.
Are you now ready to discuss application of the Pythagorean theorem to
finding the unreduced lengths of a bullet hole from their reduced lengths?
The last time I raised this subject you called the most celebrated and
well known theorem of antiquity "weak."
>
> > Confront reality the original version of the SBT advanced by the WC had
> > bullets entering the backs of Kennedy and Connally at steep downward
> > angles. These directions at the entrance wounds cannot be reconciled with
> > a trajectory from the TSBD. The HSCA recognized this fatal flaw and
> > revised the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and the cause of
> > Connally's elliptical back wound.
>
> Look at the damn photo.
Indeed, look at the damn photo and note the slightly oval wound whose
longer axis is approximately perpendicular to the vertical column. Now
compare the damn photo with the report by Humes of the 7 mm. by 4 mm. oval
wound with its long axis roughly parallel to the vertical column.
So tell us which report did Arlen Specter used to formulate his single
bullet theory and which report did the experts accept as basis for their
confirmation of the theory and which report did the enactments of a single
bullet event use as their criteria of reproduction?
Herbert
Anthony Marsh
Again, learn basic English. Infer means what YOU derive from something.
The word you want is imply.
> Source: WC testimony of Commander James J. Humes Commander HUMES - These
> exhibits again are schematic representations of what we observed at the
> time of examining the body of the late President.
>
> Exhibit 385 shows in the low neck an oval wound which excuse me, I wish to
> get the measurements correct. This wound was situated just above the upper
> border of the scapula, and measured 7 by 4 millimeters, with its long axis
> roughly parallel to the long axis of vertical column.
>
Nonsense. Look at the damn photo. He couldn't.
> End of source.
>
> Source: Clark Panel
> Examination of photographs of anterior and posterior views
> of thorax, and anterior, posterior and lateral views of neck
> (Photographs 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17, 18, 26, 27, 28, 29,
> 30, 31, 38, 39, 40, 41).
>
> There is an elliptical penetrating wound of the skin of the
> back located approximately 15 cm. medial to the right acromial
> process, 5 cm. lateral to the mid-dorsal line and 14 cm. below
> the right mastoid process. This wound lies approximately 5.5 cm.
> below a transverse fold in the skin of the neck.
> End of source.
>
> So the Clark Panel examined an autopsy photograph of the bullet wound
> in Kennedy's back and explicitly called it elliptical.
>
Which means what to you? Look at the damn photo.
You seem to know nothing about the HSCA analysis of the wear patterns.
Why does that not come as a surprise to me?
>>>> 5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
>>>> inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
>>> A finding of organic matter impressed in the soft lead of the exposed base
>>> would have been evidence of transiting Connally. They found none in CE399
>>> while the science of the early sixties detected organic matter in the
>>> atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn from distances of 400,000,000 and
>>> 700,000,000 million miles.
>> Jeez, that's a long distance!
>
> The corrected distances are 400 and 700 million or 400,000,000 and
> 700,000,000 miles.
>
>>>> 6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
>>>> the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
>>>> Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
>>>> firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
>>> Identification of a person from approximately eighty feet is among the
>>> weakest of eyewitness testimony. However, the witness did not observe the
>>> suspect straight on. Instead they viewed the suspect while looking up at
>>> an angle more than 45 degree. From this vantage point many people could
>>> not recognize their mate from a mere distance of a few feet.
>> What angle? You seem to fixated on 45 degrees.
>
> OK, wise guy. Tell us from which sixty foot perch did the witness see
> a man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald firing a rifle?
>
Where do you get a sixty foot perch? You just don't know the angles, do
you?
You are spewing irrelevant nonsense.
> In particular the cosine of the incidence angle equals the length of the
> minor axis divided by the length of the major axis of the elliptical hole.
> So what you call "meaningless" is common practice among industrious
> people.
>
> Are you now ready to discuss application of the Pythagorean theorem to
> finding the unreduced lengths of a bullet hole from their reduced lengths?
> The last time I raised this subject you called the most celebrated and
> well known theorem of antiquity "weak."
>
It is your analysis which is weak. Don't try to prop it up by misusing
scientific equations.
>>> Confront reality the original version of the SBT advanced by the WC had
>>> bullets entering the backs of Kennedy and Connally at steep downward
>>> angles. These directions at the entrance wounds cannot be reconciled with
>>> a trajectory from the TSBD. The HSCA recognized this fatal flaw and
>>> revised the shape and size of Kennedy's back wound and the cause of
>>> Connally's elliptical back wound.
>> Look at the damn photo.
>
> Indeed, look at the damn photo and note the slightly oval wound whose
> longer axis is approximately perpendicular to the vertical column. Now
> compare the damn photo with the report by Humes of the 7 mm. by 4 mm. oval
> wound with its long axis roughly parallel to the vertical column.
>
No, see the nearly round hole.
> So tell us which report did Arlen Specter used to formulate his single
> bullet theory and which report did the experts accept as basis for their
> confirmation of the theory and which report did the enactments of a single
> bullet event use as their criteria of reproduction?
>
Where did I say anything about report? Specter invented the SBT to avoid
the conspiracy conclusion.
>
> Herbert
jim....@fuse.net
David just because you repeat your misguided blather about this case,
the truth is you can't handle the truth. The truth is CE399 is a
bogus piece of "evidence." CE2011 is proof that the FBI gave the WC a
document that contained Robert Frazier's deliberate manipulation of
the ballistics evidence he and his department said they collected and
logged into the evidence record beginning on Friday evening of
11/22/63. Let me repeat that for you. FBI firearms expert Robert
Frazier lied about the ballistics evidence he and other FBI agents
collected and listed which you and many other people have been led to
believe is the truth. It isn't. John Hunt discovered Frazier's
handwritten notes about what he received on the Friday evening of
11/22/63 and later. At 7:30 pm Frazier noted receiving a bullet from
Dallas. That's one bullet. Later that evening the "stretcher bullet"
found by Darrell Tomlinson and given to O.P. Wright, head of security
at Parkland Hospital who then gave it to SSA Johnsen who flew with it
back to Washington, DC where he gave it to his boss, James Rowley,
head of the Secret Service in Rowley's office. That's two(2) bullets.
Rowley and SSA Johnsen both know what the bullet looked like because
they both looked at the bullet when they handled it. Rowley notified
the FBI that he had the "stretcher bullet" from Dallas and the FBI
sent their agent Elmer Lee Todd to Rowley's office to pick it up.
Before leaving Rowley's office, Todd put his mark on that bullet and
put it in an envelope and delivered the "stretcher bullet" to the
crime lab at FBI headquarters at 9:18 or 9:20 pm on 11/22/63. Later
the FBI would give the WC a document about the ballistics evidence
called CE2011. That document which listed what FBI firearms expert
Robert Frazier stated he had collected which the WC relied on to be
truthful, contained these deliberate lies; (1) only one bullet was
submitted into evidence by Frazier on the evening of 11/22/63 which
Frazier had designated Q1-C1, which was labeled CE399 by the WC,
instead of the two bullets he had recorded receiving and (2) A
statement that on June 12, 1964 FBI agent Bardwell Odum presented
CE399 to both Tomlinson and Wright at Wright's office in Parkand
Hospital and they said it was the same bullet they had found on the
stretcher. Tomlinson said the FBI agent who showed him and Wright a
bullet in Wright's office was the head of the FBI office in Dallas,
Gordon Shanklin. BTW, when questioned his role in the bullet
presentation to Tomlinson and Wright, Odum said he had never seen the
bullet and he did not show a bullet to anyone at anytime. Darrell
Tomlinson said he distinctly remembers Shanklin showing him and Wtight
a bullet but the date was not June 12, 1964 but on the first Tuesday
after the assassination, November 26, 1963. (3) the NARA CE399 has a
round nose/tip and O.P. Wright said the 'stretcher bullet" that
Tomlinson gave him at Parkland on 11/22/63 had a "pointed tip". (4)
the round nosed bullet labeled CE399 that Frazier sent over to NARA
and is still in their evidence collection has Frazier's mark on it and
Killian's mark on it and Cunningham's mark on it but it doesn't have
Todd's mark on it. The CE399 bullet that the official investigators
used to make the case against Oswald is a piece of tainted evidence
and Robert Frazier and the FBI obstructed justice to get a public
opinion conviction of LOH as a lone nut assassin. But you already know
all this. I wonder why you continue to choose to ignore this truth.
Can there be a true single bullet theory of the case without Frazier's
Q1-C1-CE399 manipulation? Regards, Jim
>
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Anthony Marsh
CE 399 could be genuine. It could have been planted. Either way it could
not have done everything the WC defenders need it to do.
> 11/22/63. Let me repeat that for you. FBI firearms expert Robert
> Frazier lied about the ballistics evidence he and other FBI agents
> collected and listed which you and many other people have been led to
> believe is the truth. It isn't. John Hunt discovered Frazier's
> handwritten notes about what he received on the Friday evening of
Big problem there. If you are relying on Frazier's notes maybe you
can't. Hunt has claimed that Frazier forged his notes and the rest of
the team's notes. So how can you rely on one particular note?
> 11/22/63 and later. At 7:30 pm Frazier noted receiving a bullet from
> Dallas. That's one bullet. Later that evening the "stretcher bullet"
What is the C or Q number of that 7:30 pm bullet?
> found by Darrell Tomlinson and given to O.P. Wright, head of security
> at Parkland Hospital who then gave it to SSA Johnsen who flew with it
> back to Washington, DC where he gave it to his boss, James Rowley,
> head of the Secret Service in Rowley's office. That's two(2) bullets.
What's so bad about finding two bullets? Maybe one could not be linked
to Oswald's rifle and had to disappear.
> Rowley and SSA Johnsen both know what the bullet looked like because
> they both looked at the bullet when they handled it. Rowley notified
> the FBI that he had the "stretcher bullet" from Dallas and the FBI
> sent their agent Elmer Lee Todd to Rowley's office to pick it up.
> Before leaving Rowley's office, Todd put his mark on that bullet and
> put it in an envelope and delivered the "stretcher bullet" to the
> crime lab at FBI headquarters at 9:18 or 9:20 pm on 11/22/63. Later
> the FBI would give the WC a document about the ballistics evidence
> called CE2011. That document which listed what FBI firearms expert
> Robert Frazier stated he had collected which the WC relied on to be
> truthful, contained these deliberate lies; (1) only one bullet was
> submitted into evidence by Frazier on the evening of 11/22/63 which
> Frazier had designated Q1-C1, which was labeled CE399 by the WC,
> instead of the two bullets he had recorded receiving and (2) A
> statement that on June 12, 1964 FBI agent Bardwell Odum presented
What was the C or Q number of the second bullet?
> CE399 to both Tomlinson and Wright at Wright's office in Parkand
> Hospital and they said it was the same bullet they had found on the
> stretcher. Tomlinson said the FBI agent who showed him and Wright a
> bullet in Wright's office was the head of the FBI office in Dallas,
> Gordon Shanklin. BTW, when questioned his role in the bullet
> presentation to Tomlinson and Wright, Odum said he had never seen the
> bullet and he did not show a bullet to anyone at anytime. Darrell
> Tomlinson said he distinctly remembers Shanklin showing him and Wtight
> a bullet but the date was not June 12, 1964 but on the first Tuesday
> after the assassination, November 26, 1963. (3) the NARA CE399 has a
> round nose/tip and O.P. Wright said the 'stretcher bullet" that
> Tomlinson gave him at Parkland on 11/22/63 had a "pointed tip". (4)
> the round nosed bullet labeled CE399 that Frazier sent over to NARA
> and is still in their evidence collection has Frazier's mark on it and
> Killian's mark on it and Cunningham's mark on it but it doesn't have
> Todd's mark on it. The CE399 bullet that the official investigators
> used to make the case against Oswald is a piece of tainted evidence
> and Robert Frazier and the FBI obstructed justice to get a public
> opinion conviction of LOH as a lone nut assassin. But you already know
> all this. I wonder why you continue to choose to ignore this truth.
> Can there be a true single bullet theory of the case without Frazier's
> Q1-C1-CE399 manipulation? Regards, Jim
Possibly, but probably not what John Hunt has in mind.
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>>
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>
>
>