Why McAdams is wrong about De Mohrenschildt & CIA
eric_r_carlson
> > Even if deM was really CIA (which you have no evidence of)...
John, HONESTLY, you have researched this assassination THOROUGHLY and
you have not seen the evidence for this?? Intelligence connections
exemplified nearly EVERYTHING De Mohrenschildt was involved with!
Once he settled in the U.S. these connections were totally CIA.
HERE ARE 39 REASONS GEORGE DE MOHRENSCHILDT WAS WORKING IN
INTELLIGENCE AND CIA
(For proof he worked with CIA look at #7-12)
(The following references, if not cited, come from either from the
HSCA Staff Report on George De Mohrenschildt or Anthony Summers book
"Conspiracy" pages 196-212.)
1. DeM admitted involvement in intelligence gathering with a French
intelligence officer in the U.S. Pierre Fraiss was the chief of
export of the Shumaker Co. and one of DeM's best friends. de
Mohrenschildt said he knew Fraiss was connected with French
intelligence and that he worked for Fraiss "collect(ing) facts on
people involved in pro-German activity."
http://tinyurl.com/2o2ev7
2. When DeM came to the U.S. they suspected he was a Nazi spy, but
allowed him in anyway.
3. The Mexican government ordered him to leave amidst allegations of
being a spy.
4. An FBI memorandum dated September 15, 1942, stated that at that
when de Mohrenschildt lived in Washington, D.C., he roomed with a
member of British intelligence, Quinten Keynes, and two American naval
officers. The memorandum also stated that de Mohrenschildt was
allegedly "very pro-Nazi" at this time.
5. George's elder brother Dimitri de Mohrenschildt was a staunch anti-
Communist and member of the OSS (which became the CIA) and one of the
founders of the CIA's Radio Free Europe and Amcomlib (aka Radio
Liberty) stations. Dimitri's contacts included top officials of the
CIA.
6. George DeM's business partner, M. Clemard Joseph Charles, was
working with the CIA in Haiti when DeM was working there with him.
7. It was proven that DeM WAS gathering intelligence for J. Walton
Moore of the CIA. De Mohrenschildt's CIA file contained several
reports submitted by de Mohrenschildt to the CIA on topics concerning
Yugoslavia. His intelligence gathering for J. Walton Moore in
Yugoslavia is unquestionable and there is rock-hard proof of it.
(CIA classified document, George de Mohrenschildt 201 file, process
sheet for OO/C collections.)
http://tinyurl.com/32xhj7
8. While in Yugoslavia, he was also accused by the authorities of
making drawings of military fortifications.
9. During this time he worked for the American Co-operation
Administration, since identified as a CIA funded subsidiary of AID-
the now notorious Agency for International Development.
10. J. Walton Moore was a very close associate to the DeM's during
his friendship with Oswald and they would dine once a fortnight during
this period according to Jeanne DeM.
11. DeM would later admit he had been gathering intelligence on
Oswald for Moore. Moore denied this, and said he only met DeM twice.
Later this was proven to be false as DeM's CIA connections with Moore
concerning Yugoslavia came to light. Moore quickly began
contradicting his earlier statements by admitting that he had
"periodic contact" with DeM for intelligence gathering purposes.
12. J. Walton Moore was working in Dallas for the CIA in 1963 and his
job as defined by the HSCA was to contact persons in Dallas who had
traveled abroad and try to "elicit information" they might have on
those foreign counties.
13. George DeM knew George H. W. Bush before the assassination and
Bush was likely working with the CIA at the time in the Caribbean
during the Bay of Pigs. (I have documented the evidence for this, and
you can read most of it in my post here):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jfk-research/message/5090
When DeM began to realize he was being spied on (after the
assassination) he wrote a personal correspondence to George H. W. who
was now head of the CIA asking him to use his influence to get these
agents off this back. In this letter, he assumed it was his
manuscript about Lee H. Oswald that got these agents after him.
http://tinyurl.com/27dyst
14. At New York's exclusive Racquet Club he was seen frequently with
Jake Cogswell, reported later to be a CIA operative in Cuba.
15. In a CIA Office of Security memo dated December 30, 1974,
contained in de Mohrenschildt's file, the agency noted that another
individual had requested an "expedite check" on de Mohrenschildt for
"exact reasons unknown." It was stated further in the memo: It is
interesting that (Gale Allen, then a Domestic Operations Division case
officer) interest in de Mohrenschildt coincided with the earlier
portion of this trip and the info would suggest that possibly (Gale
Allen) and de Mohrenschildt were in the same environment in
Washington, D.C., circa April 26, 1963.
16. It was not brought out in his Warren Commission testimony, but de
Mohrenschildt did meet in Washington, D.C., in the spring of 1963 with
Department of Defense personnel and Clemard Joseph Charles, the
Haitian banker through whom de Mohrenschildt was negotiating his
Haitian contracts.
http://tinyurl.com/32xhj7
17. Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall , the graphic arts firm that George DeM
helped Lee get employment at, was cleared by the Department of Defense
to work on classified foreign maps. Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall also
handled confidential work for Chance Voight Aircraft (whose RF-8 plane
played a critical role taking pictures of Cuba during the Cuban
Missile Crisis). DeM helped Lee get employment at Jaggars-Chiles-
Stovall right during the 13 day Cuban Missile Crisis, and as you can
see above (#16), in the spring of 1963 DeM was in contact with
Department of Defense personnel.
http://tinyurl.com/2jtxux
18. George de Mohrenschildt's Agency file contained a memorandum of a
phone call on May 7, 1963, to Dorothe Matlack (CIA liaison) of the
office of the Army Chief of Staff for Intelligence about de
Mohrenschildt and Charles. According to the memo, the purpose of the
call was to arrange a meeting between Charles and an Agency
representative for noon of that day. Mrs. Matlack had apparently made
hotel reservations for the de Mohrenschildts and Charles. In an
interview with the committee on September 4, 1978, Dorothe Matlack
stated that she served as Assistant Director of the Office of
Intelligence of the Army until her retirement in 1974. Her work
included "human source collection of intelligence" and involved
serving in a liaison capacity with the Central Intelligence Agency.
19. Mrs. Matlack said she was first informed about the visit of
Clemard Joseph Charles (DeM's business partner) to the United States
in 1963 by Col. Sam Kail,* an Army Intelligence officer who was
working in Miami at that time. Kail suggested that Mrs. Matlack talk
to Charles when he visited Washington, D.C., because of Charles'
relationship to President Duvalier of Haiti and Haiti's strategic
position relative to Castro's Cuba. During the committee interview,
Mrs. Matlack said that she arranged a meeting for Charles in May 1963
in downtown Washington with Tony Czaikowski of the CIA. She described
Charles as "frantic and frightened" during the meeting. He urged Mrs.
Matlack to get the U.S. Marines to invade Haiti and overthrow
Devalier.
20. Mrs. Matlack said George and Jeanne de Mohrenschildt accompanied
Charles to this meeting and that their presence was a "surprise" to
her. She did not know what role de Mohrenschildt was serving, but
felt he "dominated" Charles in some way. Mrs. Matlack said that
despite the explanation of Charles and de Mohrenschildt that they were
in the jute business together, she did not believe that was the reason
for their presence together at the meeting. Referring to de
Mohrenschildt, Mrs. Matlack said, "I knew the Texan wasn't there to
sell hemp."
21. Mrs. Matlack said she was so disturbed by de Mohrenschildt at the
meeting that she discussed it with the FBI liaison, Pat Putnam. Mrs.
Matlack said she never heard what action, if any, was taken by the FBI
about de Mohrenschildt.
22. Because of the potential political information Charles could give
about the current situation in Haiti, the CIA became the primary
contact with Charles.
http://tinyurl.com/32xhj7
23. According to Joseph Dryer who was a stockbroker with Loeb &
Rhodes & Co. in Palm Beach, Charles began working on deals for the
sale of American fighter planes and gun-running to Haiti. Fighter
planes were proven to have been shipped from Dallas to Haiti at this
time.
24. An airgram from the state department to the Embassy dated May 25,
1967, verified that a check to Edward Browder was drawn from the
personal account of Clemard Joseph Charles at Manufacturers Hanover
Trust Bank. Edward Browder was interviewed by the committee on
January 12, 1978, Browder discussed a series of gun-running and
smuggling operations he was involved in during the 1960's that were
intended to result in the eventual overthrow or assassination of Fidel
Castro. Browder stated that this work included assistance by the CIA
in the form of money and operations.
25. Joseph Dryer also gave information about George De
Mohrenschildt. Dryer told Cogswell that when he knew De
Mohrenschildt in Haiti, De Mohrenschildt's behavior was "strange" and
included following people in his car. Dryer stated that he was told
by Charles that a large amount of money had been placed in de
Mohrenschildt's account in Charles' bank just before de Mohrenschildt
left Haiti in 1967.
26. Dryer said that in 1958, Francois Duvalier, the President of
Haiti, sent an emissary to Cuba to discuss the prospects for a jute
enterprise in Haiti; Dryer said the emissary was Clemard Joseph
Charles. Dryer said additionally that Charles was involved in the
mid-1960's in a deal with President Johnson to buy jets in Texas.
Dryer said Charles had "many connections" with the Central
Intelligence Agency.
27. Dryer said that De Mohrenschildt claimed he came to Haiti to scout
for oil, but Dryer stated that "I could never figure out what he
did." Dryer expressed the belief that de Mohrenschildt had "some
intelligence connection."
"My connection with (the Meek Company in offshore oil and the Arabian
Peninsula) is of course, confidential" -DeMohrenschildt in meting
with CIA (4/25/1963)
http://tinyurl.com/2mzl98
28. According to Dryer, he, Charles and de Mohrenschildt were
associated with a woman named Jacqueline Lancelot who owned a well-
known restaurant in Petionville, Haiti. Dryer said the restaurant was
frequented by many American intelligence personnel from the American
Embassy and other foreigners. Lancelot had contact with the American
intelligence operatives and passed them information about the Duvalier
government. Dryer's relationship with Lancelot included passing
messages for her to people in the United States whom Dryer assumed
were connected in some way to the CIA. Dryer said one of those
contacts was a person who worked for French intelligence and
cooperated with the CIA.
29. Dryer said in the interview that Lancelot told him shortly after
the Kennedy assassination that a "substantial" sum of money, $200,000
or $250,000, had been deposited in de Mohrenschildt's account in a
bank in Port-au-Prince, and de Mohrenschildt left Haiti soon after.
(Ostensibly this money could have been for geological work, however,
if his geological work was really a front for the CIA, the money could
have been compensation for any number of activities, including his
work with Oswald.)
30. DeM claimed the FBI agent that questioned DeM after the
assassination (James Wood) pressured him to withdraw his statements
concerning his CIA ties (specifically regarding J. Walton Moore). The
documentary record reflects that pressure and DeM's humiliating (and
implausible) recantation.
31. During the interview with the committee investigator, Dryer was
asked if he were familiar with the names of a number of people who may
have had some connection or association with George de Mohrenschildt.
Of the names, Dryer recognized Dorothy Matlack and William Avery
Hyde. He remembered Matlack as one of the people Charles asked Dryer
to contact for him in the United States. Dryer could not remember in
what connection or context Hyde's name had been used by de
Mohrenschildt. The documentary record shows that the CIA was at the
very least INTERESTED in employing William Avery Hyde (Ruth Paine's
father) as an agent.
http://tinyurl.com/2cfrea
32. The possible association between George de Mohrenschildt and
William Avery Hyde may have some significance because Hyde is the
father of Ruth Paine, the woman with whom Marina Oswald was living at
the time of the assassination, and the woman who helped Lee get his
job at the Schoolbook Depository. The connection was intriguing
because there was never any intimation by the Warren Commission that
de Mohrenschildt had more than a brief acquaintance with Ruth Paine.
33. DeMohrenschildt was involved in preparations for the Bay of
Pigs, and visited CIA stockpiles at the Schlumberger Corp. during his
trip throughout Latin America (which WAS undeniably taken exactly
during the Bay of Pigs preparations), according to a Schlumberger
geologist who worked at that location. (JFK Assassination Debates, --
Kurtz)
34. The allegation that his trip to Mexico with Jeanne was somehow
involved with the Bay of Pigs is definitely supported by this CIA
document:
http://tinyurl.com/24nk4r
It says the CIA reports that DeM wanted to sell his manuscript of the
trip to the U.S. government because it contained "derogatory
information about the U.S.A.". ...Now what could that be all about??
Bay of Pigs? I would bet on it, considering the supporting evidence
and time of trip/locale of trip ect.
35. The De Mohrenschildts while on their trip through Guatemala,
"happened" to meet a bunch of Cuban exiles preparing for the Bay of
Pigs invasion two days before the Bay of Pigs took place.
http://tinyurl.com/2o2ev7
JANUARY 1977 TELEPHONE INTERVIEW W/ JEANNE DeM.
Q. How did you run into the Cuban exiles who were training there?
A. I don't know how it happened, it's not my fault.
36. The CIA received a report from "usually reliable sources," who
were among the guests at a November 22, 1963, cocktail party the
DeMohrenschildts attended. The sources described the reaction of the
DeMohrenschildts to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy as
blasé. The same sources reported they encountered the DeMohrenschildts
again in early June. This time most of George DeMohrenschildt's
remarks were blacked out by the CIA. [CIA 763-330, 733-316A]
37. One HSCA member told Anthony Summers, "[De Mohrenschildt] had
contacts with intelligence again and again. We could certainly give
him no clean slate as far as intelligence was concerned.
38. One of DeM's Dallas acquaintances told the WC, "George repeatedly
hinted that he was doing some work for the State Department."
39. DeM's lawyer, Patrick Russell said, "I personally always felt that
George was a CIA agent."
-----------------------------
Four other points of interest:
1. DeM's father was sentenced to death by the communists.
2. His grandfather-by-marriage helped found the Secret Service.
3. His cousin Baron Maydell was a nazi spy.
4. DeM's uncle's house was raided and a bunch of pro-Nazi literature
and films were found.
Other files on De Mohrenschildt and the CIA:
http://tinyurl.com/2eb4wh
entire memo concerning meeting with CIA (4/25/1963)
http://tinyurl.com/ypzl2d
George Bush saying DeM was involved in "controversial dealings" in
Haiti and that he knew De Mohrenschildt personally in early 40's:
http://tinyurl.com/2jltre
cdddraftsman
Loose and tenuous connection make a connection not . If Dr. D was
asked to keep a eye on LHO , by loose affiliations or direct contact
with the CIA , I would think that to be appropriate and would also be
another explanation that wouldn't involve the astonishing and
speculatory connundrum that implies conspiracy . It's not up to John
to disprove anything , that's anti-scientific , it's up to you to
prove that these facts could only mean what you posit and not anything
else ! ........IOW , that's how we define speculation and that's
exactely what you have done . It's not any big secret anymore that we
used all sorts of German and Russian assets after WWII to help us in
the Cold War to contain Soviet Expansion .........tl
On Jan 29, 11:32 am, "eric_r_carlson" <alive...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > John McAdams wrote:
> > > Even if deM was really CIA (which you have no evidence of)...John, HONESTLY, you have researched this assassination THOROUGHLY and
> sheet for OO/C collections.)http://tinyurl.com/32xhj7
> manuscript about Lee H. Oswald that got these agents after him.http://tinyurl.com/27dyst
>
> 14. At New York's exclusive Racquet Club he was seen frequently with
> Jake Cogswell, reported later to be a CIA operative in Cuba.
>
> 15. In a CIA Office of Security memo dated December 30, 1974,
> contained in de Mohrenschildt's file, the agency noted that another
> individual had requested an "expedite check" on de Mohrenschildt for
> "exact reasons unknown." It was stated further in the memo: It is
> interesting that (Gale Allen, then a Domestic Operations Division case
> officer) interest in de Mohrenschildt coincided with the earlier
> portion of this trip and the info would suggest that possibly (Gale
> Allen) and de Mohrenschildt were in the same environment in
> Washington, D.C., circa April 26, 1963.
>
> 16. It was not brought out in his Warren Commission testimony, but de
> Mohrenschildt did meet in Washington, D.C., in the spring of 1963 with
> Department of Defense personnel and Clemard Joseph Charles, the
> Haitian banker through whom de Mohrenschildt was negotiating his
> Haitian contracts.http://tinyurl.com/32xhj7
>
> 17. Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall , the graphic arts firm that George DeM
> helped Lee get employment at, was cleared by the Department of Defense
> to work on classified foreign maps. Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall also
> handled confidential work for Chance Voight Aircraft (whose RF-8 plane
> played a critical role taking pictures of Cuba during the Cuban
> Missile Crisis). DeM helped Lee get employment at Jaggars-Chiles-
> Stovall right during the 13 day Cuban Missile Crisis, and as you can
> see above (#16), in the spring of 1963 DeM was in contact with
> Department of Defense personnel.http://tinyurl.com/2jtxux
> contact with Charles.http://tinyurl.com/32xhj7
> with CIA (4/25/1963)http://tinyurl.com/2mzl98
> father) as an agent.http://tinyurl.com/2cfrea
>
> 32. The possible association between George de Mohrenschildt and
> William Avery Hyde may have some significance because Hyde is the
> father of Ruth Paine, the woman with whom Marina Oswald was living at
> the time of the assassination, and the woman who helped Lee get his
> job at the Schoolbook Depository. The connection was intriguing
> because there was never any intimation by the Warren Commission that
> de Mohrenschildt had more than a brief acquaintance with Ruth Paine.
>
> 33. DeMohrenschildt was involved in preparations for the Bay of
> Pigs, and visited CIA stockpiles at the Schlumberger Corp. during his
> trip throughout Latin America (which WAS undeniably taken exactly
> during the Bay of Pigs preparations), according to a Schlumberger
> geologist who worked at that location. (JFK Assassination Debates, --
> Kurtz)
>
> 34. The allegation that his trip to Mexico with Jeanne was somehow
> involved with the Bay of Pigs is definitely supported by this CIA
> document:http://tinyurl.com/24nk4r
> It says the CIA reports that DeM wanted to sell his manuscript of the
> trip to the U.S. government because it contained "derogatory
> information about the U.S.A.". ...Now what could that be all about??
> Bay of Pigs? I would bet on it, considering the supporting evidence
> and time of trip/locale of trip ect.
>
> 35. The De Mohrenschildts while on their trip through Guatemala,
> "happened" to meet a bunch of Cuban exiles preparing for the Bay of
> Pigs invasion two days before the Bay of Pigs took place.http://tinyurl.com/2o2ev7
> entire memo concerning meeting with CIA (4/25/1963)http://tinyurl.com/ypzl2d
eric_r_carlson
INTELLIGENCE AND CIA
40. The day after Oswald took a shot a Walker, the De Mohrenschildts
showed up and George DeM quickly asked: "How did you miss him??". This is
strong evidence supporting DeM's intelligence gathering on Oswald for J.
Walton Moore of the CIA.
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/question_oswald2.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscamar1.htm
41. De Mohrenschildt shot himself in the head just moments after he
received a notice that he was going to have to testify to the House Select
Committee on Assassinations about Oswald and the Kennedy assassination.
During his last few days on earth, he had been extremely worried that he
had angered the FBI and CIA by becoming loose-lipped about his role in the
Kennedy assassination and by writing his I AM A PATSY memoirs. He said he
was being harassed and followed by them because of this.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/death2.txt
http://tinyurl.com/27dyst
polly brown
Nothing will ever point to a conspiracy in his estimation. In fact,
McAdams' approach is a good example of the cookie-cutter used by the
establishment against the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations -- you find
a 'lone nut' (maybe a patsy) and shut down any line of investigation
connecting the LN to anything or anyone else. Then you categorize
anyone who dares to look askance at this position as a 'buff' and
proceed to attack their character and credibility. If that doesn't
work, you start to drop hints that the buff may not be a good citizen
and might even have Communist tendencies. Then you get your little
cluster of sycophants to start trolling the buff. And so
on...Hilarious. :-0
Pamela McElwain-Brown
www.in-broad-daylight.com
eric_r_carlson
DID you read #7-12? That even qualifies as proof. And the rest has a
STRONG evidence pattern to it.
On Jan 29, 11:29 pm, "cdddraftsman" <cdddrafts...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Then you would have to agree that John McAdam's was right , also !
What? No I don't! Especially because he was WRONG.
> Loose and tenuous connection make a connection not.
In numbers 7-12 I lay out rock solid proof.
If Dr. D was
> asked to keep a eye on LHO , by loose affiliations or direct contact
> with the CIA , I would think that to be appropriate and would also be
> another explanation that wouldn't involve the astonishing and
> speculatory connundrum that implies conspiracy .
Appropriate?? They KNEW he was a killer and let him go on attempting
murder??
It's not up to John
> to disprove anything , that's anti-scientific , it's up to you to
> prove that these facts could only mean what you posit and not anything
> else !
#7-12: He was intelligence gathering for the CIA, specifically J. Walton
Moore. WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MEANS??
Better YET, go through ALL 41 points and give ALTERNATE EXPLANATIONS for
each. You will be bending over backwards through hoops if you can even do
it AT ALL.
-E
Chad Zimmerman
the nasty LN position that the lapel flipped...er...flopped?
Pamela, the bias is as bad on both sides. And, your old argument about
reflecting shadows is a prime example of the lengths that CT's go to
dispel LN theory.
Pot or Kettle?
Chad
"polly brown" <pame...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1170138979.8...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
eric_r_carlson
> It's not any big secret anymore that we
> used all sorts of German and Russian assets after WWII to help us in
> the Cold War to contain Soviet Expansion .........tl
Eric wrote:
Are you trying to prove my point or debunk it? We were using De
Mohrenschildt who used to be a French or German asset, and that means
he would THEN BE CIA.
jpsh...@my-deja.com
> > John McAdams wrote:
> > > Even if deM was really CIA (which you have no evidence of)...
>
> John, HONESTLY, you have researched this assassination THOROUGHLY and
> you have not seen the evidence for this?? Intelligence connections
> exemplified nearly EVERYTHING De Mohrenschildt was involved with!
> Once he settled in the U.S. these connections were totally CIA.
>
> HERE ARE 39 REASONS GEORGE DE MOHRENSCHILDT WAS WORKING IN
> INTELLIGENCE AND CIA
> (For proof he worked with CIA look at #7-12)
> (The following references, if not cited, come from either from the
> HSCA Staff Report on George De Mohrenschildt or Anthony Summers book
> "Conspiracy" pages 196-212.)
>
>
> 14. At New York's exclusive Racquet Club he was seen frequently with
> Jake Cogswell, reported later to be a CIA operative in Cuba.
>
[...]
Is this the same Cogswell?
104-10262-10402 (08-Jul-1963): CABLE: JOAQUIN GODOY SOLIS, VICE CHIEF
AND PUBLIC RELATIONS MAN FOR MRP
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=38078
Mentions James E. "Jack" Cogswell as having supplied arms to
Castro before '59 and as being in Cuba in 1960.
104-10130-10197 (25-Apr-1966): CONTACT REPORT: AMBLINK/1 AND AMRAll/1
[sic]
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11996
AMRAZZ/1 meets with James Cogwell and Antonio Veciana
at the Racquet and Tennis Club in NY. There's talk of killing
Castro.
104-10262-10377 (07/27/67): DISPATCH: TERMINATION OF AMRAZZ/1
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=38062
Page 4 of this suggests AMRAZZ/1 is the Joaquin Godoy mentioned
in the first document.
Has this Cogswell guy been considered as possibly being
"Maurice Bishop"?
Jerry Shinley
eric_r_carlson
> > Jake Cogswell, reported later to be a CIA operative in Cuba.
>
> [...]
>
> Is this the same Cogswell?
Possibly. Here is more info about Cogswell from "THE ADAMSON REPORT"
vol.9: by Brude Campbell Adamson
-----------START QUOTE------------
In May 1978 the committee received
information that a stock broker in Palm
Beach, Florida had known George de
Mohrenschildt in Haiti. The information
came from Jack Cogswell of Palm Beach.
According to Cogswell, he ran into Joseph
Dryer, who is a stockbroker with Loeb &
Rhodes & Co. in Palm Beach, and Dryer
offered information about George de
Mohrenschildt. 29
What the House Select Committee
did not tell the public was that Jake
Cogswell was a "CIA stringer" and was still
doing CIA projects in 1977 and was a
Cuban expert, according to The New York
Daily News Suzy Knickerbocker. Cogswell
was married to oil heiress Joan Memers
also to and Cynthia Cannon. 30
Returning to the H.S.C.A. investigation:
"Dryer told Cogswell that when he
knew de Mohrenschildt in Haiti, de
Mohrenschildt's behavior was "strange"
and he complained of being followed by
people in his car. Dryer related that de
Mohrenschildt was associated with a man
named Charles who was the president of a
bank in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Dryer stated
that he was told by Charles that a large
amount of money had been placed in de
Mohrenschildt's account in Charles' bank
just before de Mohrenschildt left Haiti in
1967."
-----------------END QUOTE--------------------
You wrote:
Has this Cogswell guy been considered as possibly being
"Maurice Bishop"?
Eric wrote:
I don't know, but I read somewhere David Atlee Philips was almost
surely "Maurice Bishop".
eric_r_carlson
"THE ADAMSON REPORT" vol.9: by Bruce Campbell Adamson
-----------START QUOTE------------
In May 1978 the committee received
information that a stock broker in Palm
Beach, Florida had known George de
Mohrenschildt in Haiti. The information
came from Jack Cogswell of Palm Beach.
According to Cogswell, he ran into Joseph
Dryer, who is a stockbroker with Loeb &
Rhodes & Co. in Palm Beach, and Dryer
offered information about George de
Mohrenschildt. (29)
What the House Select Committee
did not tell the public was that Jake
Cogswell was a "CIA stringer" and was still
doing CIA projects in 1977 and was a
Cuban expert, according to The New York
Daily News Suzy Knickerbocker. Cogswell
was married to oil heiress Joan Memers
also to and Cynthia Cannon. (30)
(29). HSCA. 1977-79, p. 60.
(30). Dallas Morning News, April 16, 1977.
eric_r_carlson
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/marysdb/showRec.do?id=2486
A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database
Record: COGSWELL, JOHN "JACK" "JAKE"
Sources: HSCA Vol. VII (60); Conspiracy, Summers (195)
Mary's Comments:
In the 1950s, deMohrenschildt was seen frequently with Cogswell at the
exclusive Racquet Club. Cogswell was later reported to be a CIA
operative in Cuba. He told HSCA Joseph Dryer, a stockbroker with Loeb
& Rhodes in Palm Beach, that he knew George deMohrenschildt in Haiti.
Cogswell was first married to Joan deMers and next to Cynthia Cannon.
eric_r_carlson
Mohrenschildt's "confession" that he had told the CIA about Oswald, for
the same reasons most people think he was just another crackpot (his
hallucinations, contradictions, ect.). However, even Epstein began to
realize De Mohrenschildt was telling some truth just before he died.
Here is Epstein's belated revelation:
----------------------------------------------------------
Edward J. Epstein, "Assassination Chronicles" pages 564-565
"I published Legend in 1977 without giving credence to De Mohrenschildt's
story (although I included the CIA's unanswered interrogatives in the
appendix). But, it turned out, I had given up too soon. In early 1978
investigators for the House Select Committee on Assassination managed to
gain unprecedented access to the CIA's 144- volume file on Oswald and
permission to interview the CIA personnel who had been involved in the
CIA's debriefing apparatus in the early 1960s. When the committee
published its report in July 1979, it contained three disclosures from the
CIA's convoluted archives that, while attracting little interest
elsewhere, surprisingly corroborated at least part of De Mohrenschildt's
unpublished story.
First, although J. Walton Moore had previously "recalled" meeting De
Mohrenschildt only twice in his life-once in 1958 and once in 1961-the
documents found in De Mohrenschildt's CIA file showed that there was far
"more contact between Moore and De Mohrenschildt than was stated." In
fact, they revealed that Moore had interviewed him numerous times over a
course of years and prepared reports based on this information. Moore
himself testified that he had "periodic" contact with De Mohrenschildt for
"debriefing purposes" and, although maintaining he could not recall any
discussion about Oswald, acknowledged that these contacts may have
extended to 1962.
The second disclosure was an entry in De Mohrenschildt's CIA file showing
that he met with CIA staff officer Tony Czaikowski in Washington, D.C., on
May 7, 1963. The meeting was arranged by another CIA liaison, Sam Kail,
who indicated that De Mohrenschildt's partner Clemard Joseph Charles-a key
adviser to Haitian president "Papa Doc" Duvalier-might prove useful in
ongoing efforts aimed at overthrowing Castro Cuba, code-named Operation
Mongoose. At Kail's suggestion, Dorothe Matlack, the liaison between U.S.
Army intelligence and the CIA, went to the meeting to assess Clemard
Joseph Charles' potential value (to the CIA). When Charles arrived with De
Mohrenschildt, Charles appeared to Matlack to be "dominated" by De
Mohrenschildt, she later testified. And although subsequently became "the
prime contact" for Charles, Matlack was concerned enough about De
Mohrenschildt's role to request the FBI to look into him. This testimony
confirmed that De Mohren-schildt, as he had claimed, had brought his
Haitian project- and Haitian partner-to the attention of the CIA, and that
indeed he had been in contact with the CIA after as well as before the
Walker shooting.
The third disclosure, if accurate, was the smoking gun. It came from a
well-respected CIA analyst who, in 1962, had been in the Soviet branch of
the Foreign Document Division of the CIA's Directorate of Intelligence,
which was the unit in the CIA that pieced together information gleaned
from various sources on Soviet economic, technological, and scientific
developments. In the summer of 1962 he clearly remembered data coming in
from a CIA field office on the operations of the Minsk electronics factory
in the form of "contact reports." He recalled that these reports had been
based on the experiences of a U.S. ex-Marine who had worked at the Minsk
plant after his defection to the Soviet Union. Since there was only one
ex- Marine who had worked in this particular Minsk factory, the source of
this information had to be Lee Harvey Oswald.
Since Oswald himself had not been openly debriefed by the CIA, as the
committee established, the technical details in the "contact reports" that
the local field office were relaying to the analyst in the CIA's Foreign
Document Division had to be coming from an intermediary. Presumably this
"contact" had begun eliciting data from Oswald in the summer of 1962.
This timetable closely dovetailed with De Mohrenschildt's story. De
Mohrenschildt not only had access to Oswald and Marina during this period
but also had borrowed from Oswald his memoir that described his work in
the electronics factory."
eca...@tx.rr.com
a bunch of subjective theories
from a conspiracy book,
"Epstein, "Assassination
Chronicles" and pointing to
these quotes as if they were
more than what they are.
How would you like it if I
cited a page from Posner's
"Case Closed" as some sort
of a rebuttal? It's fine to get
input from others on what they
think might have happened,
but try to be objective.
Suggestion: Use a combination
of valid *sources* (No, CT books
are not acceptable, nor are
page quotes from CC for that
matter) - Then apply common
sense but weigh both sides
of the verifiable input before
applying common sense.
You are just posting excerpts
from a CT book Eric.
Ed 0716Feb1107
On Feb 7, 10:07 pm, "eric_r_carlson" <alive...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> People like Epstein (the reporter he told it to!) didn't believe De
> Mohrenschildt's "confession" that he had told theCIAabout Oswald, for
> the same reasons most people think he was just another crackpot (his
> hallucinations, contradictions, ect.). However, even Epstein began to
> realize De Mohrenschildt was telling some truth just before he died.
>
> Here is Epstein's belated revelation:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Edward J. Epstein, "Assassination Chronicles" pages 564-565
>
> "I published Legend in 1977 without giving credence to De Mohrenschildt's
> story (although I included theCIA'sunanswered interrogatives in the
> appendix). But, it turned out, I had given up too soon. In early 1978
> investigators for the House Select Committee on Assassination managed to
> gain unprecedented access to theCIA's144- volume file on Oswald and
> permission to interview theCIApersonnel who had been involved in theCIA'sdebriefing apparatus in the early 1960s. When the committee
> published its report in July 1979, it contained three disclosures from theCIA'sconvoluted archives that, while attracting little interest
> elsewhere, surprisingly corroborated at least part of De Mohrenschildt's
> unpublished story.
>
> First, although J. Walton Moore had previously "recalled" meeting De
> Mohrenschildt only twice in his life-once in 1958 and once in 1961-the
> documents found in De Mohrenschildt'sCIAfile showed that there was far
> "more contact between Moore and De Mohrenschildt than was stated." In
> fact, they revealed that Moore had interviewed him numerous times over a
> course of years and prepared reports based on this information. Moore
> himself testified that he had "periodic" contact with De Mohrenschildt for
> "debriefing purposes" and, although maintaining he could not recall any
> discussion about Oswald, acknowledged that these contacts may have
> extended to 1962.
>
> The second disclosure was an entry in De Mohrenschildt'sCIAfile showing
> that he met withCIAstaff officer Tony Czaikowski in Washington, D.C., on
> May 7, 1963. The meeting was arranged by anotherCIAliaison, Sam Kail,
> who indicated that De Mohrenschildt's partner Clemard Joseph Charles-a key
> adviser to Haitian president "Papa Doc" Duvalier-might prove useful in
> ongoing efforts aimed at overthrowing Castro Cuba, code-named Operation
> Mongoose. At Kail's suggestion, Dorothe Matlack, the liaison between U.S.
> Army intelligence and theCIA, went to the meeting to assess Clemard
> Joseph Charles' potential value (to theCIA). When Charles arrived with De
> Mohrenschildt, Charles appeared to Matlack to be "dominated" by De
> Mohrenschildt, she later testified. And although subsequently became "the
> prime contact" for Charles, Matlack was concerned enough about De
> Mohrenschildt's role to request the FBI to look into him. This testimony
> confirmed that De Mohren-schildt, as he had claimed, had brought his
> Haitian project- and Haitian partner-to the attention of theCIA, and that
> indeed he had been in contact with theCIAafter as well as before the
> Walker shooting.
>
> The third disclosure, if accurate, was the smoking gun. It came from a
> well-respectedCIAanalyst who, in 1962, had been in the Soviet branch of
> the Foreign Document Division of theCIA'sDirectorate of Intelligence,
> which was the unit in theCIAthat pieced together information gleaned
> from various sources on Soviet economic, technological, and scientific
> developments. In the summer of 1962 he clearly remembered data coming in
> from aCIAfield office on the operations of the Minsk electronics factory
> in the form of "contact reports." He recalled that these reports had been
> based on the experiences of a U.S. ex-Marine who had worked at the Minsk
> plant after his defection to the Soviet Union. Since there was only one
> ex- Marine who had worked in this particular Minsk factory, the source of
> this information had to be Lee Harvey Oswald.
>
> Since Oswald himself had not been openly debriefed by theCIA, as the
Martin Shackelford
Epstein's FIRST book, "Inquest," might be loosely described as a CT book,
but he followed that one with another attacking the Garrison investigation,
and then a bio of Oswald which supported the Lone Nut version of things for
the most part. The Assassination Chronicles was those three books combined
with a few articles of new research, including the one on DeMohrenschildt.
Hardly a "CT book."
But apparently that's how you feel the need to label ANY book with
information you don't want to hear.
Martin
<eca...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
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