LBJ "Ducking" and the Altgens Photo
John McAdams
example -- is that LBJ was "ducking" down in the limo *before* the
shots were fired in Dealey Plaza.
I've heard that the Altgens photo shows LBJ -- not having ducked -- at
Z-frame about 253.
I frankly haven't seen that, but I may not have a good enough copy of
the Altgens photo.
Can anybody shed some light on this?
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
yeuhd
convertible two vehicles behind the presidential limousine. His head
is above the driver's side mirror. From the camera's angle, the driver
is between LBJ on the right and Lady Bird Johnson on the left. Both
LBJ and Lady Bird are looking ahead to their right, no doubt for the
umbrella man to signal them that all is clear.
David Von Pein
WhiskyJoe
Why would LBJ duck? LBJ's final instructions to the snipers must have
sounded like the instructions of the Duke gives to the men who were
suppose to guard his son in the tower in the movie "Monty Python and
the Holy Grail".
LBJ: Now. You've got it now, right?
Bob and Chuck (snipers Alpha and Beta): Yes sir.
LBJ: You wait for the signal and then you shoot JFK. Only JFK.
Bob: One more questions sir.
LBJ: Yes?
Bob: What if his umbrella blocks our line of sight.
LBJ: His umbrella is not going to block your line of sight. He is not
the one who will be holding an umbrella. The umbrella is the signal.
Not the target. The signal. You don't shoot the man with the umbrella.
You just shoot JFK. Do you get me?
Bob and Chuck: Yes sir. We get you sir.
LBJ: (as he's leaving the room) Very well, you know what to do.
Chuck (sniper Alpha): Yes sir. We don't shoot you until after we shoot
JFK.
LBJ: (returning quickly) No. No. No.
You don't shoot me. You only shoot JFK.
Bob: I don't understand. We are not to get you sir?
LBJ (long pause): Now listen very carefully this time. You don't get
me. You don't shoot me. You just shoot him. Only him.
Chuck (sniper Beta): What, Bob? But he's my friend.
LBJ (getting angry): No, No, No. Not Bob. You don't shoot Bob. You
don't shoot any of the other snipers. You don't shoot anyone else in
the motorcade. You just shoot JFK. Say it with me now. Only JFK. Only
JFK. Only JFK.
Bob and Chuck: Only JFK. Only JFK. Only JFK. Yes sir. You can count on
us.
LBJ: Good (and leaves the room looking worried).
Bob: I can't understand why Connally needs to be shot as well. What
does he have to do with Vietnam?
Chuck: Who knows. We just better follow our orders.
claviger
Try this website. It is the most detailed blowup of the Altgens photo
I've come across. If the guy to the left of Ladybird is LBJ then he's
not ducking. I remember reading where a SS agent jumped on LBJ and
pushed him down.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=8
claviger
Mr. SPECTER. And would you identify the occupants of Vice President
Johnson's car, indicating the positions in the car of each
individual?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. All right, sir. The driver of this car was Hurchel
Jacks, and he is with the State Highway Patrol. And behind him was
Senator Ralph Yarborough, from Texas. And in the middle back seat was
Mrs. Johnson. And on the right-hand side of the back seat, behind me,
was the Vice President. And I was in the front seat on the right-hand
side.
Mr. SPECTER. And what kind of an automobile was it?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This was a Lincoln convertible, a four-door
convertible.
marki...@yahoo.com
> example -- is that LBJ was "ducking" down in the limo *before* the
> shots were fired in Dealey Plaza.
>
> I've heard that the Altgens photo shows LBJ -- not having ducked -- at
> Z-frame about 253.
This is the best quality image that I've found:
http://lege.net/blog.lege.net/ratical.org/ratville/JFK/images/Altgens.jpg
~Mark
Anthony Marsh
Silly.
Anthony Marsh
> A well known piece of conspiracy lore -- repeated by Jean Hill, for
> example -- is that LBJ was "ducking" down in the limo *before* the
> shots were fired in Dealey Plaza.
>
Maybe she meant before SHE heard the shots or maybe she meant before the
fatal headshot.
> I've heard that the Altgens photo shows LBJ -- not having ducked -- at
> Z-frame about 253.
>
Closer to Z-255.
> I frankly haven't seen that, but I may not have a good enough copy of
> the Altgens photo.
>
Did Jean Hill even know about the Altgens photo then? I can't remember
who, but there is some kook that says that no shots were fired before
Z-285 and that the Altgens photo shows that Kennedy and Connally had not
been injured yet.
John McAdams
Good photo, but where is LBJ?
Is he the figure just over the left shoulder of Lady Bird.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
wrote:
>
>Click on picture for extra-large version:
>
>http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/033a.+ALTGENS+PHOTO+(EXTRA+LARGE+VERSION)?gda=GvcO218AAADr6tC8UyTBgT86VBHer5Z9BC-jgeKYxgUJ9WSRz4S9N51K-owUkrbjYfon4eO-wcqAY7K8nIlRV0ozD0jSkdOWZgCWaKSotOvb-lnZ1KVxZZxzIUqf6s0oL53Wkz8h1XQ
Very good copy, but according to the testimony, LBJ was to Lady Bird's
right, in the same seat.
I'm not sure I can see anybody there.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
wrote:
Very useful, thank you.
My problem is that I can't see a person to the right of Lady Bird.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
claviger
If LBJ is ducking then he must not be part of the Conspiracy. Or maybe
he wasn't copied on the memo from CT central that only JFK would be
shot.
snl1...@yahoo.com
In the Altgens photo, a portion of the left side of Johnson's head can
be seen against Bobby Hargis' shoulder (the inboard motorcycle officer,
next to Mrs. Kennedy). He does not appear to be "ducking".
John Fiorentino
pic. Then again, maybe it won't since he cares not to communicate with me
it seems.
Affidavit Of Clifton C. Carter
The following affidavit was executed by Clifton C. Carter on May 20, 1964.
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
AFFIDAVIT
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, ss:
I, Clifton C. Carter, make the following affidavit concerning my knowledge
of the events of November 22, 1963.
Vice President Johnson and I had been in Texas during the week preceding
November 22nd, and we had met the party of President Kennedy in San
Antonio, Texas, on Thursday, November 21, 1963.
I was on the Vice President's plane (AF-2) when it landed at Dallas Love
Field on November 22 at about 11:30 a.m. Vice President and Mrs. Johnson
left their plane and joined the reception party which greeted President
and Mrs. Kennedy, who arrived in the President's plane (AF-1). President
and Mrs. Kennedy then shook hands with people in the crowd along an iron
fence. While the Presidential Party greeted the crowd, I went to the
automobile where I was to ride in the motorcade. It was a Secret Service
vehicle assigned to follow and protect the Vice President. Our car was
right behind the Vice President's automobile, which was immediately to the
rear of the Presidential Secret Service follow-up car, which drove right
behind the President's automobile.
The automobile in which I rode was driven by a Dallas policeman. I sat in
the middle of the front seat and held some radio equipment on my lap.
Special Agent Jerry D. Kivett sat on my right and Special Agent Len Johns
and someone else were in the rear seat. This was an unmarked Dallas police
car.
Nothing unusual occurred on the motorcade route from Love Field to the
downtown Dallas area. The crowds were very large and very friendly, except
for two or three signs which contained derogatory comments about President
Kennedy. I would estimate that the crowds were twice as big as they were
in September of 1960 when Mr. Kennedy campaigned in Dallas. The motorcade
slowed down at times, but I do not believe that it stopped.
The motorcade proceeded west on Main Street, made a righthand turn onto
Houston and then swung around to the left on Elm, proceeding slowly at
about 5 to 10 miles per hour. At approximately 12:30 p.m., our car had
just made the lefthand turn off Houston onto Elm Street and was right
along side of the Texas School Book Depository Building when I heard a
noise which sounded like a firecracker. Special Agent Youngblood, who was
seated on the righthand side of the front seat of Vice President Johnson's
car immediately turned and pushed Vice President Johnson down and in the
same motion vaulted over the seat and covered the Vice President with his
body. At that instant Mrs. Johnson and Senator Yarborough, who were riding
in the back seat along with the Vice President, bent forward. Special
Agent Youngblood's action came immediately after the first shot and before
the succeeding shots.
John F.
"John Fiorentino" <johnfio...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:49f0...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> All:
>
> Sorry, LBJ didn't duck.
>
> John F.
>
>
> "John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
> news:l0qvu4d8qfkkvn63g...@4ax.com...
John McAdams
<johnfio...@optonline.net> wrote:
>This may help .John in discerning what he is looking at in the Altgens
>pic. Then again, maybe it won't since he cares not to communicate with me
>it seems.
>
Sorry, John.
I meant to write you today and report that I have the changes on the
Milteer page done.
But since I got busy, and didn't get a chance to do the changes on the
Milteer page, I didn't. :-(
I do appreciate your help, and will put that at the top of the que
tomorrow morning.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John Fiorentino
being a little needlessly gnarly. I apologize if that is the case.
In any event, what you are seeing is Rufus Youngblood partially draped over
the seat on his way to cover LBJ. Part of LBJ's head is visible, though not
readily apparent. (It takes a little studying, and then you'll "see" it)
Re: Milteer, it certainly has no great urgency, though I do believe it's not
been presented properly before.
Re: Tague, I find it fascinating, personally, that after 40+ years, nobody
it seems, (except me)...... ;-) has gotten the damn thing right.
Re: The NAA debacle with Spiegelman, et al, I was frankly rather
disappointed in the support I received on that issue. Ken Rahn, of course
did write a nice synopsis lending me his support and I thank him for that.
Unfortunately Ken has recently been rather mum on my subsequent
investigation into the ammo used my LHO.
I respect just about everyone here, but at times it seems some egos come
into play that tend to make things more difficult than they should be.
John F.
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:old2v4thcbmmirfo2...@4ax.com...
Anthony Marsh
> All:
>
> Sorry, LBJ didn't duck.
>
> John F.
>
Thanks. That photo came through ok as an inline attachment.
I've had problems with attachments ever since Comcast dropped the
newsgroups.
>
> "John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
> news:l0qvu4d8qfkkvn63g...@4ax.com...
claviger
snl141,
Thank you for pointing that out. When I studied it again I see the
profile of man facing backward. You can see his right ear. Then I read
where SSA Youngblood turned and pushed LBJ down after the first shot.
This Altgens photo was taken after the second shot. What I think we
are looking at is the profile of Youngblood turned completely around
holding LBJ down. Ladybird seems oblivious, but Yarborough is leaning
forward as mentioned in the Clifton Carter testimony.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2...
When you pull up the photo click for enlargement. Do you see what I
see?
David Von Pein
JOHN McADAMS SAID:
>>> "Very good copy [of the famous Altgens photo; linked above], but according to the testimony, LBJ was to Lady Bird's right, in the same seat. I'm not sure I can see anybody there." <<<
DVP SAID:
Yeah, I think you're correct, John. I don't see LBJ in the blown-up
version of the picture either.
In the regular-sized (non-enlarged) version of the Altgens picture, I
always thought it looked like LBJ seated to Lady Bird's LEFT in the
car. But in the blow-up, we can easily see that that is not LBJ on
Lady Bird's left -- that's Senator Ralph Yarborough.
Plus, I just remembered that there is also amateur film footage that
shows LBJ sitting on the RIGHT side of the car during the Dallas
motorcade on 11/22/63. So it's fairly clear that the person sitting to
Lady Bird's left can't be Vice President Johnson.
Lyndon Johnson can't be seen at all in James Altgens' photograph, in
my opinion. At least he can't be seen very clearly in the picture at
any rate; and LBJ certainly cannot be seen clearly enough to make a
definitive determination on whether he's "ducking" the rifle bullets
or not.
But even if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Johnson
is "ducking" in the Altgens picture, it's another "So what?" type of
situation for the conspiracy theorists who like to drag this topic out
of their stale closets every now and then -- because by the time the
Altgens picture was taken, TWO GUNSHOTS had certainly already been
fired in Dealey Plaza.
And there had positively been enough time for two of the Secret
Service agents in JFK's follow-up car to react to the shots (since we
can see two agents turning and looking directly toward the Book
Depository Building in the Altgens picture).
So, it stands to reason, that other people could have conceivably been
"reacting" (and possibly "ducking") by the time Altgens took his
famous photo as well.
But for some reason, conspiracy theorists seem to think that if LBJ
can be seen "ducking" in the Altgens photo, this indicates that Vice
President Johnson MUST have been ducking BEFORE the first shot was
even fired (and hence, per the conspiracy kooks who like to raise this
point, LBJ had advanced knowledge that shooting was going to be
occurring on Elm Street at exactly 12:30 on November 22nd).
A silly notion altogether, isn't it? (Yes, it is.)
Gerry Simone
I think LBJ's view is obstructed. No way that Lady Bird would be smiling
like she is there if LBJ ducked by that time.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f48456bb-3c97-4fd0...@r37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/033a.+ALTGENS+PHOTO+(EXTRA+LARGE+VERSION)?gda=GvcO218AAADr6tC8UyTBgT86VBHer5Z9BC-jgeKYxgUJ9WSRz4S9N51K-owUkrbjYfon4eO-wcqAY7K8nIlRV0ozD0jSkdOWZgCWaKSotOvb-lnZ1KVxZZxzIUqf6s0oL53Wkz8h1XQ
>
>
> JOHN McADAMS SAID:
>
>>>> "Very good copy [of the famous Altgens photo; linked above], but
>>>> according to the testimony, LBJ was to Lady Bird's right, in the same
>>>> seat. I'm not sure I can see anybody there." <<<
>
> DVP SAID:
>
> Yeah, I think you're correct, John. I don't see LBJ in the blown-up
> version of the picture either.
>
> In the regular-sized (non-enlarged) version of the Altgens picture, I
> always thought it looked like LBJ seated to Lady Bird's LEFT in the
> car. But in the blow-up, we can easily see that that is not LBJ on
> Lady Bird's left -- that's Senator Ralph Yarborough.
>
> Lyndon Johnson can't be seen at all in the Altgens pic, IMO.
>
claviger
> http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/033a.+ALTGENS+PHOTO+(E...
>
> JOHN McADAMS SAID:
>
> >>> "Very good copy [of the famous Altgens photo; linked above], but according to the testimony, LBJ was to Lady Bird's right, in the same seat. I'm not sure I can see anybody there." <<<
>
> DVP SAID:
>
> Yeah, I think you're correct, John. I don't see LBJ in the blown-up
> version of the picture either.
>
> In the regular-sized (non-enlarged) version of the Altgens picture, I
> always thought it looked like LBJ seated to Lady Bird's LEFT in the
> car. But in the blow-up, we can easily see that that is not LBJ on
> Lady Bird's left -- that's Senator Ralph Yarborough.
>
> Lyndon Johnson can't be seen at all in the Altgens pic, IMO.
The more I study the picture I can see two possibilities. The dark
coat, shoulder, and arm of Youngblood in the front seat who is twisted
around to his left, the back of his head and a portion of LBJ's head.
The other possibility is only the torso and profile of Youngblood is
visible and LBJ is already pushed down.
With details available from the blow up of this photo it also looks
like Marguerite Oswald, Billy Sol Estes, and LBJ with a hat on are
standing in the crowd. We should call in a CT to investigate these
clues.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2...
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/
Anthony Marsh
Yeah, the first shot he HEARD.
Anthony Marsh
>
> Click on picture for extra-large version:
>
> http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/033a.+ALTGENS+PHOTO+(EXTRA+LARGE+VERSION)?gda=GvcO218AAADr6tC8UyTBgT86VBHer5Z9BC-jgeKYxgUJ9WSRz4S9N51K-owUkrbjYfon4eO-wcqAY7K8nIlRV0ozD0jSkdOWZgCWaKSotOvb-lnZ1KVxZZxzIUqf6s0oL53Wkz8h1XQ
>
Thanks. That came in pretty well.
But it actually helps more if a real researcher has a copy negative of
the original Altgens photo from the National Archives and has examined
it with a loupe.
LBJ was NOT ducking and when he talked to Hoover asked if any shots were
directed at him. A rather strange comment if he is supposed to be the
mastermind.
Gerry Simone
"yeuhd" <Needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56c6687b-83b6-4438...@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Gerry Simone
I can't see LBJ but could be obstructed.
"yeuhd" <Needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56c6687b-83b6-4438...@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
John Fiorentino
John F.
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:49f1e6fd$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
John Fiorentino
That's pretty much it. A portion of LBJ's face is also visible, but not
easy to see without some effort.
John F.
"claviger" <histori...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:26fcf85a-49d3-46c5...@d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
John Fiorentino
Well, David as for the CT's LBJ "ducking" isn't the real issue. It has
more to do with the seating arrangements. I think this ducking thing came
from the fact that both Ladybird and Yarborough pitched forward to huddle
down.
John F.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d8d93846-99d0-45ed...@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
snl1...@yahoo.com
>
> When you pull up the photo click for enlargement. Do you see what I
> see?
You're welcome, Claviger. This print , although very, very clear, is a
tad dark and grainy when blown up. It is best to use a magnifying glass
and view the Altgens pic as produced in "The Torch is Passed" where you
can clearly see Johnson's head, just off of Hargis' left shoulder. I see a
smiling Lady Bird, as well as a smiling Yarborough.
No matter how many times I have looked at this picture over the years, I
still can't understand how people couldn't see that something was wrong(
especially the Sam Kinney and Emory Roberts, who are looking right at the
back of JFK). Look at the people along the sidewalk smiling. To me, the
first indication would have been Mrs. JFK reacting, by putting both hands
on her wounded husband, as he throws his arms up. Unbelievable.
Anthony Marsh
> Exactly!
>
> I think LBJ's view is obstructed. No way that Lady Bird would be smiling
> like she is there if LBJ ducked by that time.
>
Good idea, but not proof. And indeed people keep smiling even after the
bullets are flying.
Anthony Marsh
How does the notion that LBJ had already ducked down jibe with the SS
testimony that his agent had to turn around and PUSH him down? I would
also suggest that you look at the Dorman film. Ask Gary Mack to release it
to the public as his only interest is to the truth. ;]>
> And there had positively been enough time for two of the Secret
> Service agents in JFK's follow-up car to react to the shots (since we
> can see two agents turning and looking directly toward the Book
> Depository Building in the Altgens picture).
>
> So, it stands to reason, that other people could have conceivably been
> "reacting" (and possibly "ducking") by the time Altgens took his
> famous photo as well.
>
> But for some reason, conspiracy theorists seem to think that if LBJ
> can be seen "ducking" in the Altgens photo, this indicates that Vice
> President Johnson MUST have been ducking BEFORE the first shot was
> even fired (and hence, per the conspiracy kooks who like to raise this
> point, LBJ had advanced knowledge that shooting was going to be
> occurring on Elm Street at exactly 12:30 on November 22nd).
>
I don't get it. If Johnson was the mastermind and worried about stray
bullets why would he even get into the motorcade?
David Von Pein
>>> "Well, David as for the CT's LBJ "ducking" isn't the real issue. It
has more to do with the seating arrangements." <<<
Huh???
David Von Pein
>>> "No matter how many times I have looked at this picture over the
years, I still can't understand how people couldn't see that something was
wrong. .... Unbelievable." <<<
You mean to say that there are actually some CTers who contend that NO
SHOTS have been fired by the time Altgens took his photo?
I guess I can answer my own question there, because if the "LBJ ducking"
issue is to be considered any kind of an "issue" at all, there must be
CTers who DO, indeed, contend that no shots have been fired as of the time
of the Altgens photo. Otherwise...what's the CTers' point?
Unbelievable is right, snl141.
John Fiorentino
The story goes that LBJ on the morning of the assassination requested JBC
ride with him. This would have placed Yarborough in the Limo with JFK.
As you probably know, LBJ had little use for Yarborough.
Connally refused at the behest of JFK.
John F.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:357a73e9-706e-4f81...@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
claviger
wrote:
> Well, David as for the CT's LBJ "ducking" isn't the real issue. It has
> more to do with the seating arrangements. I think this ducking thing came
> from the fact that both Ladybird and Yarborough pitched forward to huddle
> down.
>
> John F.
>
>
>
>
> >http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/033a.+ALTGENS+PHOTO+(E...
John,
If SSA Youngblood had to turn and push him down then LBJ wasn't ducking.
He had to be forced down. So LBJ was dunked for not ducking soon enough.
John McAdams
wrote:
Yep.
My student has Youngblood's testimony. Given that accusations of
lying are so fife in this field, I'm just trying to figure out whether
there is any hard photographic evidence.
I'll pass this whole thread along to my student.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
claviger
Interesting. Thanks again. Crowd reaction is hard to understand given
there were two loud noises and a change in posture by three people inside
the limousine. The Altgens phtoto shows that some SSAs were reacting to
the sound and some were not. Same is true of the crowd. Three black ladies
have turned toward the sound but people on both sides of them seem
oblivious. We must remind ourselves all this took place in 11 secs or
less. Sometimes it takes the human mind longer to process multiple
stimulus by the five senses than we might think. Many spectators dismissed
the first sound as a familiar non lethal noise, a firecracker or backfire.
It was the second shot where many realized something unexpected was going
on. Judging by this photo many others in the crowd still did not realize
what was taking place before their eyes. The SSAs were so focussed on the
street level threat of someone approaching the Presidential Limousine they
didn't even snap to what was happening.
claviger
> >If SSA Youngblood had to turn and push him down then LBJ wasn't ducking.
> >He had to be forced down. So LBJ was dunked for not ducking soon enough.
>
> Yep.
>
> My student has Youngblood's testimony. Given that accusations of
> lying are so fife in this field, I'm just trying to figure out whether
> there is any hard photographic evidence.
>
> I'll pass this whole thread along to my student.
>
> .John
> --------------http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
As a matter of fact somewhere I read that Sen Yarborough denied that SSA
Youngblood pushed LBJ down and covered him with his body. Don't know the
details of that denial, but it could be the second part Yarborough says
never happened. Isn't it amazing how every aspect of this case seems to be
controversial.
Anthony Marsh
>
>
>
>>>> "No matter how many times I have looked at this picture over the
> years, I still can't understand how people couldn't see that something was
> wrong. .... Unbelievable."<<<
>
>
> You mean to say that there are actually some CTers who contend that NO
> SHOTS have been fired by the time Altgens took his photo?
>
Yes. I think you may find one or two here if you look back through the
old messages.
Anthony Marsh
Page 16 top.
But what YOU may be seeing looks very dark when compared to the bright
face of Lady Bird. So you can't actually identify any facial features to
prove it is LBJ. It might be just a dark clothing of a spectator in the
background. Why should there be a dark shadow ONLY on LBJ then? Is this
like Pamela's shadow from the Stemmons Freeway sign?
Again, I would suggest that a real researcher obtain a copy negative of
the Altgens photo from the National Archives and make his own blow-ups.
Then you can also play with the contrast to bring out details.
> can clearly see Johnson's head, just off of Hargis' left shoulder. I see a
> smiling Lady Bird, as well as a smiling Yarborough.
>
If you can LBJ's face, then can you see Kennedy's hands? Does it look to
you as though Kennedy's left hand as his fingers spread out ala Dale Myers
or can you only see the knuckled because his hand is balled up into a
fist?
> No matter how many times I have looked at this picture over the years, I
> still can't understand how people couldn't see that something was wrong(
> especially the Sam Kinney and Emory Roberts, who are looking right at the
> back of JFK). Look at the people along the sidewalk smiling. To me, the
> first indication would have been Mrs. JFK reacting, by putting both hands
> on her wounded husband, as he throws his arms up. Unbelievable.
>
The first reaction is the reflex of Kennedy's arms flying up.
Gerry Simone
Ducking is an instantaneous action and she might not have noticed by then.
The Z film misses this, doesn't it?
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:49f26e44$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Gerry Simone
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:o492v4pd0hin0r0nb...@4ax.com...
> On 23 Apr 2009 19:44:36 -0400, claviger <histori...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 22, 11:06 pm, John McAdams <john.mcad...@marquette.edu> wrote:
>>> A well known piece of conspiracy lore -- repeated by Jean Hill, for
>>> example -- is that LBJ was "ducking" down in the limo *before* the
>>> shots were fired in Dealey Plaza.
>>>
>>> I've heard that the Altgens photo shows LBJ -- not having ducked -- at
>>> Z-frame about 253.
>>>
>>> I frankly haven't seen that, but I may not have a good enough copy of
>>> the Altgens photo.
>>>
>>> Can anybody shed some light on this?
>>>
>>> .John
>>> --------------http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>>
>>Mr. SPECTER. And would you identify the occupants of Vice President
>>Johnson's car, indicating the positions in the car of each
>>individual?
>>Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. All right, sir. The driver of this car was Hurchel
>>Jacks, and he is with the State Highway Patrol. And behind him was
>>Senator Ralph Yarborough, from Texas. And in the middle back seat was
>>Mrs. Johnson. And on the right-hand side of the back seat, behind me,
>>was the Vice President. And I was in the front seat on the right-hand
>>side.
>>Mr. SPECTER. And what kind of an automobile was it?
>>Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This was a Lincoln convertible, a four-door
>>convertible.
>>
>
> Very useful, thank you.
>
> My problem is that I can't see a person to the right of Lady Bird.
>
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Gerry Simone
Below and to the right of Bill Lovelady (that doesn't look like Oswald
from first impressions), you see a gent a la Jack Ruby (hey, everybody
wore dark suits, white shirts, dark ties and wore fedoras) who's face in
the less resolute pic seemed doctored - but in fact, the enhanced photo
shows that the gent's face is blocked by the hat of a child.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8b6cae36-7a07-489a...@r37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Click on picture for extra-large version:
>
> http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/033a.+ALTGENS+PHOTO+(EXTRA+LARGE+VERSION)?gda=GvcO218AAADr6tC8UyTBgT86VBHer5Z9BC-jgeKYxgUJ9WSRz4S9N51K-owUkrbjYfon4eO-wcqAY7K8nIlRV0ozD0jSkdOWZgCWaKSotOvb-lnZ1KVxZZxzIUqf6s0oL53Wkz8h1XQ
>
Ritchie Linton
had the misfortune to inherit in dubious cicumstance.As we all know after
he served the remainder of the term,he retired"with a heavy heart"
insisting that"if nominated Iwill not run..and if elected Iwill not
serve".Hard to imagine.
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:l0qvu4d8qfkkvn63g...@4ax.com...
jbarge
> Poor LBJ-subject to unfounded allegations-scurrilous,really-just b/c he
> had the misfortune to inherit in dubious cicumstance.As we all know after
> he served the remainder of the term,he retired"with a heavy heart"
> insisting that"if nominated Iwill not run..and if elected Iwill not
> serve".Hard to imagine.
>
>
> news:l0qvu4d8qfkkvn63g...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> >A well known piece of conspiracy lore -- repeated by Jean Hill, for
> > example -- is that LBJ was "ducking" down in the limo *before* the
> > shots were fired in Dealey Plaza.
>
> > I've heard that the Altgens photo shows LBJ -- not having ducked -- at
> > Z-frame about 253.
>
> > I frankly haven't seen that, but I may not have a good enough copy of
> > the Altgens photo.
>
> > Can anybody shed some light on this?
>
> > .John
> > --------------
>
> - Show quoted text -
While I don't believe LBJ guilty of conspiracy, I must say he was
masterful in quickly taking the reins.
I read once at end the day of 11/22/1963 he discussed his 1964 re-
election stratgey.
Damn - that is one alarmingly capable politician.
claviger
> On Apr 25, 11:26 pm, "Ritchie Linton" <rlin...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Poor LBJ-subject to unfounded allegations-scurrilous,really-just b/c he
> > had the misfortune to inherit in dubious cicumstance.As we all know after
> > he served the remainder of the term,he retired"with a heavy heart"
> > insisting that"if nominated Iwill not run..and if elected Iwill not
> > serve".Hard to imagine.
>
> > "John McAdams" <john.mcad...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
>
> >news:l0qvu4d8qfkkvn63g...@4ax.com...
>
> > >A well known piece of conspiracy lore -- repeated by Jean Hill, for
> > > example -- is that LBJ was "ducking" down in the limo *before* the
> > > shots were fired in Dealey Plaza.
>
> > > I've heard that the Altgens photo shows LBJ -- not having ducked -- at
> > > Z-frame about 253.
>
> > > I frankly haven't seen that, but I may not have a good enough copy of
> > > the Altgens photo.
>
> > > Can anybody shed some light on this?
>
> > > .John
> > > --------------
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> While I don't believe LBJ guilty of conspiracy, I must say he was
> masterful in quickly taking the reins.
> I read once at end the day of 11/22/1963 he discussed his 1964 re-
> election stratgey.
> Damn - that is one alarmingly capable politician.
jbarge,
If you get a chance to see a rebroadcast of the interview by Charlie Rose
with Robert Caro it is fascinating. Caro is working on the fourth volume
of his biography of Lyndon Johnson.