Shocking New CT

[claviger]

Has Marina been overlooked as a CIA asset? She was in perfect
position to frame LHO. Evidently he was beating her on a regular
basis. To end that problem permanently did she approach the CIA to
get him out of her life?

[mainframetech]

Earlier on she said what they wanted in various testimonies. In
one instance they had her say all kinds of stuff that would clean up
messes they had made of things like showing what bad condition the MC
rifle was in. She stated that Oswald had cleaned the rifle and
practiced with it, but it was foolish stuff and not worth believing.
They suggested that Oswald was hiding the rifle under a raincoat and
going on a bus to the range to practice. Picture that...trying to
keep a full length rifle under a raincoat while getting on a bus and
off again. Laughable.

Nowadays Marina is a full citizen and has come out saying that
Oswald was completely innocent of killing both JFK and Tippit.

Chris

[Chad Anthony]

No, she now thinks Oswald was innocent. If she was cia I think she'd
continue the original,"my husband killed the president".

[Ramon F. Herrera]

In TV interviews, we have seen how Marina and June have become CTs.
Marina has "evolved" along the years. The big question, however, is
this:

Has Marina unequivocally recanted or repudiated any of her WC/press
testimony?

-Ramon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbwwP64IuU

[claviger]

When I first started following this case I came across a CT who
believed Marina was KGB from the beginning who was assigned LHO as a
project. She did her job and was his handler from then on. When it
came time to flip the switch she did as ordered.

I don't think it happened that way. My feeling is Marina was just a
mousy little Russian girl who was attracted to the unique situation of
a American in Russia. She married him never expecting the Soviet
Union would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA. When they did
she went along out of curiosity. The KGB and CIA both kept track of
this couple because it was their job. Eventually the KGB made contact
with Marina and threatened her family in Russia if she would not
cooperate and influence LHO to take out JFK. This may have been a
favor to Castro who was growing tired of CIA antics in Cuba.

Marina's reward was her family in Russia was safe and she could raise
her children in the USA. Everybody was happy with the outcome, the
KGB, Marina, and Castro. The FBI and CIA were stunned, along with the
SS. The were humiliated by losing the POTUS and LOTFW but could never
tie LHO to any group. Operation Mongoose was an awkward situation for
the Johnson Administration who was afraid to connect the assassination
back to the KGB or Castro. This is Marsh's belief, except he thinks a
rogue CIA unit was involved as well.

[Ramon F. Herrera]

On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
> would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.

EMIGRATE to the USA.

De nada,

-Ramon

[Ramon F. Herrera]

On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Eventually the KGB made contact with Marina and threatened
> her family in Russia if she would not cooperate and influence
> LHO to take out JFK.

That feat is of similar proportions as influencing somebody to win an
Olympic medal or the Nobel Prize... AGAINST their will. With your
suggestion are entering Manchurian Candidate territory.

Why would Marina become CT? Why rock the boat? Now she claims that
there were other people involved (which would incriminate her, of
course).

I would agree with you in a minor respect, though: Her conscience has
bothered her, after realizing that the was a tool. (tools, by
definition are non-cognizant).

My question remains: Has Marina provided ANY evidence about her being
"guided" or "led" during her testimony?

Obviously we cannot possibly expect something as blatant as "That is
not my signature" or "It is a complete fabrication" (Mercer? in
"JFK")? (*)

-Ramon

(*) "As a former FBI, I find that very hard to believe"
Costner/Garrison

[mainframetech]

> rogue CIA unit was involved as well.- Hide quoted text -
>

I can find a lot of items of evidence that are suggestive of a plot
including folks in government to frame Oswald, but not anything to back
that story that the Russians wanted JFK killed, and would help with it.
The lengths the FBI went to in covering up the evidence was far more than
any of their other coverups they were involved in.

Chris

[claviger]

Thank you. Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.

emigrate/immigrate
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html - 2k - similar pagesTo
“emigrate” is to leave a country. The E at the beginning of the word
is related to the E in other words having to do with going out, such
as “exit.” “Immigrate,” in ...

[claviger]

Why is it CTs never consider the two biggest enemies of the US Government
during the Cold War as possible culprits? One gets the feeling CTs only
consider right-wing groups. One might even get the impression a
subconscious political bias is involved in the creative process of
developing these conspiracy theories.

Of course the USSR and Cuba had possible motives. Kennedy backed down
Khrushchev, who suffered a loss of prestige after all his threats and
bluster. In order to regain lost respect he could have had the KGB knock
off President Kennedy. Castro having been an ongoing target of the CIA,
had even more reason to want Kennedy gone. He even threatened retaliation
in a speech quoted in a newspaper. The KGB were experts in assassination,
and Cuba's G2 had experience as well. Years later a member of Castro's
staff claimed G2 had infiltrated every anti-Castro Cuban organization in
the US. Gerry Hemmings thought so too.

When conceiving CT scenarios it makes sense to start with the obvious.
There have been 1 or 2 books written and one documentary produced in
Germany claiming it was the Cubans who got even with the Kennedys.

[claviger]

On Apr 27, 5:23 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > Eventually the KGB made contact with Marina and threatened
>  > her family in Russia if she would not cooperate and influence
>  > LHO to take out JFK.
>
> That feat is of similar proportions as influencing somebody to win an
> Olympic medal or the Nobel Prize... AGAINST their will. With your
> suggestion are entering Manchurian Candidate territory.

Not at all. LHO was emotionally still a teenager. He would be easy to
influence because of his infatuation with Marxism, Russia, and Castro.

> Why would Marina become CT? Why rock the boat? Now she claims that
> there were other people involved (which would incriminate her, of
> course).

Who else is asking questions about Marina? She was an object of sympathy
from the beginning. The FBI and WC never treated her as a suspect.
Marina is so obvious she became invisible as a suspect. She's not
rocking-the-boat, she's getting on board and helping row in the direction
it's already going. The CT faction has done a good job of convincing 75%
of Americans their own government is to blame for the assassination of
President Kennedy. All Marina has to do now is pour more gas on that
fire. She's now a true believer in CTism. What could be better for her
at this point? She's still a victim and now a courageous CT. This move
has given her daughters hope their father was an innocent pawn. The
timing is perfect for Marina to join the CT movement.

> I would agree with you in a minor respect, though: Her conscience has
> bothered her, after realizing that the was a tool. (tools, by
> definition are non-cognizant).
>
> My question remains: Has Marina provided ANY evidence about her being
> "guided" or "led" during her testimony?

No, why would she do that?

> Obviously we cannot possibly expect something as blatant as "That is
> not my signature" or "It is a complete fabrication" (Mercer? in
> "JFK")? (*)

Actually Marina claimed she could not remember if she wrote "Hunter of
Fascists. Ha Ha" on the photo, or if Lee did. I find that a little
strange.

> (*) "As a former FBI, I find that very hard to believe"
>     Costner/Garrison

Yes, it is hard to believe she doesn't remember who wrote the caption on
that controversial photograph. What if it was Marina who suggested Lee
pose for the photo and then she wrote the caption? The only thing more
incriminating was the MC rifle on the 6th floor. Marina could have been
orchestrating the whole thing, under duress from the KGB.

[Ramon F. Herrera]

On Apr 28, 7:54 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 5:21 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
> >  > would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.
>
> > EMIGRATE to the USA.
>
> > De nada,
>
> > -Ramon
>
> Thank you.  Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.
>

> emigrate/immigratehttp://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html- 2k - similar pagesTo

> “emigrate” is to leave a country. The E at the beginning of the word
> is related to the E in other words having to do with going out, such
> as “exit.” “Immigrate,” in ...

"Emigrate to the US" implies both acts.

It is like "Peter married Joan in 1975": You don't need to say that
Joan married him as well (unless you are the priest).

Funny how you, an NON-IMMIGRANT, are trying to teach an IMMIGRANT
about immigration terms. Do you have some lessons in Latin American
history, literature, folklore, etc. you would like to tech me?

All you had to write was "Oops, I stand corrected".

De nada...

-Ramon

[Anthony Marsh]

We did. And they turned out to be hoaxes.

> There have been 1 or 2 books written and one documentary produced in
> Germany claiming it was the Cubans who got even with the Kennedys.
>
>

Those are from the CIA to take the heat off themselves.

[Anthony Marsh]

It was the belief of a certain faction in the CIA that Oswald was
working for the Soviets. That's why Nosenko was sent to the US to
reassure us that they didn't have anything to do with Oswald.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/28/2013 4:05 PM, Ramon F. Herrera wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:54 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 27, 5:21 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
>>> > would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.
>>
>>> EMIGRATE to the USA.
>>
>>> De nada,
>>
>>> -Ramon
>>
>> Thank you. Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.
>>
>> emigrate/immigratehttp://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html- 2k - similar pagesTo

>> �emigrate� is to leave a country. The E at the beginning of the word

>> is related to the E in other words having to do with going out, such

>> as �exit.� �Immigrate,� in ...

>
>
> "Emigrate to the US" implies both acts.
>
> It is like "Peter married Joan in 1975": You don't need to say that
> Joan married him as well (unless you are the priest).
>
> Funny how you, an NON-IMMIGRANT, are trying to teach an IMMIGRANT
> about immigration terms. Do you have some lessons in Latin American
> history, literature, folklore, etc. you would like to tech me?
>

That's pretty rich coming from you. You admit that you are an immigrant.
So English is not your native language. And you are trying to lecture an
American about English? Just admit that you made a typo and move on.

[mainframetech]

On Apr 27, 6:23 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > Eventually the KGB made contact with Marina and threatened
>  > her family in Russia if she would not cooperate and influence
>  > LHO to take out JFK.
>
> That feat is of similar proportions as influencing somebody to win an
> Olympic medal or the Nobel Prize... AGAINST their will. With your
> suggestion are entering Manchurian Candidate territory.
>
> Why would Marina become CT? Why rock the boat? Now she claims that
> there were other people involved (which would incriminate her, of
> course).
>
> I would agree with you in a minor respect, though: Her conscience has
> bothered her, after realizing that the was a tool. (tools, by
> definition are non-cognizant).
>
> My question remains: Has Marina provided ANY evidence about her being
> "guided" or "led" during her testimony?
>

Why would she do that? It would nullify the efforts of those in
authority who were getting her to lie. And she has done that by
implication. She is saying that Oswald didn't kill either JFK or
Tippit, meaning all her evidence in the past that pointed to those
killings being done by Oswald (like practicing with the gun and oiling
it) have been overthrown.

[mainframetech]

On Apr 28, 8:54 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 5:21 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
> >  > would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.
>

As a niece to a communist party member (not too many were) who was
also big in the KGB, for all we know she was expected to take Oswald
on as a project and report back. Or it might have been a simple way
to get her to the USA just to make her life better. Depends on the
relationship with the uncle.

> > EMIGRATE to the USA.
>
> > De nada,
>
> > -Ramon
>
> Thank you.  Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.
>

> emigrate/immigratehttp://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html- 2k - similar pagesTo

[mainframetech]

Law enforcement is usually right wing. In this case the FBI and a
few of the SS seem to have helped the plot along.

> Of course the USSR and Cuba had possible motives.  Kennedy backed down
> Khrushchev, who suffered a loss of prestige after all his threats and
> bluster.  In order to regain lost respect he could have had the KGB knock
> off President Kennedy.  Castro having been an ongoing target of the CIA,
> had even more reason to want Kennedy gone.  He even threatened retaliation
> in a speech quoted in a newspaper.  The KGB were experts in assassination,
> and Cuba's G2 had experience as well. Years later a member of Castro's
> staff claimed G2 had infiltrated every anti-Castro Cuban organization in
> the US.  Gerry Hemmings thought so too.
>

Since the FBI was so deeply involved in fomenting the plot, the
Russians and the Cubans must have been controlling some of them.

> When conceiving CT scenarios it makes sense to start with the obvious.
> There have been 1 or 2 books written and one documentary produced in
> Germany claiming it was the Cubans who got even with the Kennedys.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Apr 28, 8:55 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 27, 5:23 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > Eventually the KGB made contact with Marina and threatened
> >  > her family in Russia if she would not cooperate and influence
> >  > LHO to take out JFK.
>
> > That feat is of similar proportions as influencing somebody to win an
> > Olympic medal or the Nobel Prize... AGAINST their will. With your
> > suggestion are entering Manchurian Candidate territory.
>
> Not at all. LHO was emotionally still a teenager.  He would be easy to
> influence because of his infatuation with Marxism, Russia, and Castro.
>
> > Why would Marina become CT? Why rock the boat? Now she claims that
> > there were other people involved (which would incriminate her, of
> > course).
>

Marina is now a citizen. She and her kids have to put up with the
constant attitudes that she was somehow part of the plot (coming from
Russia) and she (and they) would want to have a more normal life
without the stigma. If they could prove LHO was innocent, then their
life would get easier and they would become victims again.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/28/2013 10:18 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> On Apr 28, 8:54 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 27, 5:21 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
>>> > would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.
>>
> As a niece to a communist party member (not too many were) who was
> also big in the KGB, for all we know she was expected to take Oswald

Fun to guess at things and just make up crap, isn't?
She received a diploma in pharmacology in June 1959 and then was
assigned to a job in a warehouse, which she quit after a day.

Two months later, she moved to live with her uncle in Minsk, the capital
of Belarus. Her uncle was a colonel in the MVD -- the Russian Interior
Ministry security service. At that time, the agency -- which was a
mixture of a national police force and the FBI -- carried out several
functions, from running large parts of the Gulag to serving as an
internal security force. According to the Warren Commission, Col.
Prusakov was head of the local lumber industry, which would have
certainly made him part of the Gulag apparatus and therefore part of the
security structure. With a rank of colonel, he clearly had substantial
responsibilities. According to the Warren Commission, Prusakov "� had
one of the best apartments in a building reserved for MVD employees."

> on as a project and report back. Or it might have been a simple way
> to get her to the USA just to make her life better. Depends on the
> relationship with the uncle.
>
>>> EMIGRATE to the USA.
>>
>>> De nada,
>>
>>> -Ramon
>>
>> Thank you. Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.
>>
>> emigrate/immigratehttp://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html- 2k - similar pagesTo

>> �emigrate� is to leave a country. The E at the beginning of the word

>> is related to the E in other words having to do with going out, such

[Ramon F. Herrera]

On Apr 28, 9:16 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/28/2013 4:05 PM, Ramon F. Herrera wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:54 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 27, 5:21 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>   > She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
> >>>   > would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.
>
> >>> EMIGRATE to the USA.
>
> >>> De nada,
>
> >>> -Ramon
>
> >> Thank you.  Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.
>
> >> emigrate/immigratehttp://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html-2k - similar pagesTo

> >> “emigrate” is to leave a country. The E at the beginning of the word

> >> is related to the E in other words having to do with going out, such

> >> as “exit.” “Immigrate,” in ...

>
> > "Emigrate to the US" implies both acts.
>
> > It is like "Peter married Joan in 1975": You don't need to say that
> > Joan married him as well (unless you are the priest).
>
> > Funny how you, an NON-IMMIGRANT, are trying to teach an IMMIGRANT
> > about immigration terms. Do you have some lessons in Latin American
> > history, literature, folklore, etc. you would like to tech me?
>

> That's pretty rich coming from you. You admit that you are
> an immigrant. So English is not your native language.

Gee, I guess that English being my 4th. language (plus some ancient
Greek and Latin) would put me at a disadvantage...

http://buscon.rae.es/drae/?type=3&val=emigrar&val_aux=&origen=REDRAE
http://buscon.rae.es/drae/?type=3&val=inmigrar&val_aux=&origen=REDRAE

De nada...

-Ramon

ps: Teabonics spoken here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pargon/sets/72157623594187379/

[curtjester1]

Sure she could have, and many think, likely.

LHO was one, and Marina was very likely part of gov't intelligence by
attaching herself to defector agents coming into the Soviet Union.
She travelled good distances to be with them. She lied or obfuscated
to the WC, so she probably knew what was controlling the whole
investigation and what went down at 11/22/63. She was paid handsomely
after the assassination, and she quickly was 'married into' a CIA
affiliated family with her new husband.

CJ

[BT George]

On the plus side of this idea, I would agree that Khrushchev (Hard to spell!) and Castro had motive. Moreover, Lee could have been moved fairly easily by his Marxist (but particularly pro-Castro) sympathies. In some ways it also does seem a little strange that more CTers have not opted for speculation that Russia or Cuba was behind the assassination.

On the negative side of the ledger, it is hard to believing Kruschchev was afraid enough of World War III to back down to Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but suddenly became brazen enough to risk the very nuclear war he backed down to avoid by backing the assassination of a sitting US President! Likewise, Castro would be risking the very invasion he had always hoped the US would never launch and/or WWIII if the Soviets backed their ally instead of leaving him to his fate. IMO, the potential consequences of this course of action would have been just too suicidally reckless for either party to attempt.

[mainframetech]

On Apr 29, 3:42 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 4/28/2013 10:18 PM, mainframetech wrote:
>
> > On Apr 28, 8:54 am, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 27, 5:21 pm, "Ramon F. Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Apr 27, 12:03 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>   > She married him never expecting the Soviet Union
> >>>   > would ever allow them to immigrate to the USA.
>
> >    As a niece to a communist party member (not too many were) who was
> > also big in the KGB, for all we know she was expected to take Oswald
>
> Fun to guess at things and just make up crap, isn't?
> She received a diploma in pharmacology in June 1959 and then was
> assigned to a job in a warehouse, which she quit after a day.
>

Many have made up crap here. At least I'm honest about it and you
know I'm guessing.

> Two months later, she moved to live with her uncle in Minsk, the capital
> of Belarus. Her uncle was a colonel in the MVD -- the Russian Interior
> Ministry security service. At that time, the agency -- which was a
> mixture of a national police force and the FBI -- carried out several
> functions, from running large parts of the Gulag to serving as an
> internal security force. According to the Warren Commission, Col.
> Prusakov was head of the local lumber industry, which would have
> certainly made him part of the Gulag apparatus and therefore part of the
> security structure. With a rank of colonel, he clearly had substantial

> responsibilities. According to the Warren Commission, Prusakov "… had

> one of the best apartments in a building reserved for MVD employees."
>
>
>
> > on as a project and report back.  Or it might have been a simple way
> > to get her to the USA just to make her life better.  Depends on the
> > relationship with the uncle.
>
> >>> EMIGRATE to the USA.
>
> >>> De nada,
>
> >>> -Ramon
>
> >> Thank you.  Emigrate from the USSR so they can immigrate to the USA.
>

> >> emigrate/immigratehttp://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html-2k - similar pagesTo

> >> “emigrate” is to leave a country. The E at the beginning of the word

> >> is related to the E in other words having to do with going out, such

> >> as “exit.” “Immigrate,” in ...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Anthony Marsh]

They do so in private. They were warned not to do so in public.

> On the negative side of the ledger, it is hard to believing Kruschchev was afraid enough of World War III to back down to Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but suddenly became brazen enough to risk the very nuclear war he backed down to avoid by backing the assassination of a sitting US President! Likewise, Castro would be risking the very invasion he had always hoped the US would never launch and/or WWIII if the Soviets backed their ally instead of leaving him to his fate. IMO, the potential consequences of this course of action would have been just too suicidally reckless for either party to attempt.
>

The Cuban or Russian involvement in the JFK assassination were just a
series of hoaxes by the Cuban exiles and their supporters to try to
trick the US into invading Cuba.

[mainframetech]

> On the negative side of the ledger, it is hard to believing Kruschchev was afraid enough of World War III to back down to Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but suddenly became brazen enough to risk the very nuclear war he backed down to avoid by backing the assassination of a sitting US President!  Likewise, Castro would be risking the very invasion he had always hoped the US would never launch and/or WWIII if the Soviets backed their ally instead of leaving him to his fate.  IMO, the potential consequences of this course of action would have been just too suicidally reckless for either party to attempt.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

So you come down to the other groups and people that wanted JFK out
of the way. And the evidence is more fitting for that to be the case,
that it was a domestic plot.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

There were a lot of people who wanted to assassinate President Kennedy.
Why then? What was going to happen in December that they wanted to
prevent?

[mainframetech]

> prevent?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

If LBJ was one of the main movers of the plot, then he just wanted to
get JFK out of his way and take over like he knew he should. Has nothing
to do with December, unless you mean some of the profitable business
dealings that JFK was going to end.

Chris

[Walt]

Excellent rational reasoning........ and a good indiction that the
plot was not created in Moscow or Havana.

There is irrfutable proof that the authorities framed Lee
Oswald..... Does anybody really believe that the US authorities
would have ignored the obvious culprits if there was even one iota of
evidence that Castro or Krueschchev were behind the cold booded
murder of the President of the United States.....and then framed a
hapless nobody for the crime??

[Walt]

Cuban exiles and their "SUPPORTERS"... ie; The Cuban exiles were
supported by rogue ex-CIA agents who hated JFK because he fired them from
their high paying jobs after the BOP fiasco. Some of the Cuban survivors
of Brigade 2506 hated JFK because they blamed him for the death and misery
at BOP, and their ex-CIA leaders encouraged them to kill JFK. Those
ex-CIA leaders had worked hand in glove with the Mafia, so financing the
hit was not a problem.

I believe the idea to trick Johnson into attacking Cuba after the murder
of JFK was merely a pipe dream..... They wanted to murder JFK , and that
was their primary goal..... They may have hoped that Castro would be
blamed and Johnson would attack Cuba .... But keep in mind ...Many Cuban
exiles still had friends and family in Cuba, and they didn't want harm to
come to them, which is what would have happened if Johnson had decided to
bomb Havana into a pile of rubble.

[Anthony Marsh]

Some in the exile community and even some CIA officers accused JFK of
intentionally sabotaging the invasion by not providing air support.
But that is based on a lie. JFK did provide air cover, but the CIA
screwed up the coordination and the exile bombers were shot down by
Castro's planes.

> I believe the idea to trick Johnson into attacking Cuba after the murder
> of JFK was merely a pipe dream..... They wanted to murder JFK , and that
> was their primary goal..... They may have hoped that Castro would be
> blamed and Johnson would attack Cuba .... But keep in mind ...Many Cuban
> exiles still had friends and family in Cuba, and they didn't want harm to
> come to them, which is what would have happened if Johnson had decided to
> bomb Havana into a pile of rubble.
>

Some of the hoaxes just piggy-backed onto the JFK assassination after it
happened.

>

[Anthony Marsh]

Castro told his closest friends that killing Kennedy would have been
suicide for Cuba.

�What really happened?�

- Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, expressing incredulity at the
official account of JFK�s murder to journalist Drew Pearson during a
meeting in May 1964. According to Pearson, Khrushchev was �utterly
incredulous,� expressed �flat disbelief� and �did not believe that the
American security services were this inept.�

> There is irrfutable proof that the authorities framed Lee
> Oswald..... Does anybody really believe that the US authorities
> would have ignored the obvious culprits if there was even one iota of
> evidence that Castro or Krueschchev were behind the cold booded
> murder of the President of the United States.....and then framed a
> hapless nobody for the crime??
>

Yes, because Hoover had the proof in his hands that Castro hired Oswald,
but LBJ did not want to start WWIII.

>

[Anthony Marsh]

You have no idea what December is because you are not cleared for that
information.

[mainframetech]

Since you know all about that, you must have a link to that
information, right? Or is it total baloney?

Dead Silence.

No president would start WW3 over Cuba killing JFK. They would
begin with talking at the UN and making the accusations there. If
they could offer proof that was ironclad, then they MAY get involved
in a conventional war and NOT nuclear with Cuba. Russia would not
intervene if the proof were ironclad. A war with Cuba under those
circumstances would last as long as it took to kill Castro and some of
his high level people, and those that were involved in the
assassination.

Chris



>
>

[mainframetech]

LOL! Neither are you...:)

Chris

[Walt]

Jet fighter squadron VA 34 flying off the USS Essex were in the air, armed
and ready to blast Castros plane out of the air ..... They were straining
at their leashes just waiting for the word to open fire...... It never
came.

[Walt]

On May 1, 11:20 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

Are you referring to The same Hoover that routinely created false
photos to blackmail those who he deemed "dangerous" like Martin Luther
King? Is this the kind of "proof" that Hoover had in his hands?

>
>
>
>

[Anthony Marsh]

>> �What really happened?�

>>
>> - Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, expressing incredulity at the

>> official account of JFK�s murder to journalist Drew Pearson during a
>> meeting in May 1964. According to Pearson, Khrushchev was �utterly
>> incredulous,� expressed �flat disbelief� and �did not believe that the
>> American security services were this inept.�

>>
>>> There is irrfutable proof that the authorities framed Lee
>>> Oswald..... Does anybody really believe that the US authorities
>>> would have ignored the obvious culprits if there was even one iota of
>>> evidence that Castro or Krueschchev were behind the cold booded
>>> murder of the President of the United States.....and then framed a
>>> hapless nobody for the crime??
>>
>> Yes, because Hoover had the proof in his hands that Castro hired Oswald,
>> but LBJ did not want to start WWIII.
>
>
> Are you referring to The same Hoover that routinely created false
> photos to blackmail those who he deemed "dangerous" like Martin Luther
> King? Is this the kind of "proof" that Hoover had in his hands?
>

I was not aware that Hoover created false photos of MLK. Do you have those?

>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Anthony Marsh]

Where did you get that from? Yes, the 4 unmarked Navy jets were waiting.
But someone at CIA screwed up the time zones and they were there an hour
too early and missed the exiles bombers they were support to protect.

[Walt]

The "Blue Blasters" ( VA 34) were armed and ready to provide a "umbrella
of cover" for Brigade 2506 on the ground. They could have shot Castro's
planes out of the sky in five minutes...... They were straining at their
tethers and just awaiting the green light..... they never got it. They
did scare the Cuban planes off a couple of times by flying alongside and
intimidating the Cuban pilots. ( Probably flippin them off, and taunting
them to open fire )

If the Cubans in Guatamala, that were supposed to fly the B 26 bombers
hadn't chickened out and refused to take off without a guarentee of
fighter support the bombers would have had their fighter support. When
the Cubans wiggled and squirmed and wasted valuable time and then refused
to fly.... The Americans who had trained the exiles to fly the B26 took
charge and took to the air..... They arrived late and had no fighter
support so they were sitting ducks for Castro's pilots. Americans, Pete
Ray and Leo Baker managed to crash land their B26's in Cuba but were badly
injured and then beaten to death by Castros troops.

[Walt]

On May 1, 11:20 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:

Yes....and solid clear thinking reveals that Castro was right..... It
would have been suicide for Castro to order the murder Of JFK. I'm sure
he knew that Johnson was nothing but a cut throat pirate and he would not
be able to deal with LBJ.

[Anthony Marsh]

Excuse me? You don't know what the Hell you are talking about. Those
Navy jets were sent for a very limited mission, to fly passive cover for
the B-26 bombers. Nothing more, nothing less. And their orders specified
they were to be at a certain place and at a certain time and could only
fly for ONE HOUR. 6:30 to 7:30. They were there waiting for that hour
and the B-26 bombers did not show up.
The B-26 bombers left at about 3:30 AM and it took about 3 hours to fly
from Nicaragua to Cuba so they arrived at Cuba at about 6:30.
So what was the problem? 6:30 Nicaragua time is 7:30 Cuba time. They
were an hour late. The 4 US Navy jets waited until 7:30 and then
returned to the USS Essex. The pilots watched and cried as Castro's
planes shot down the exile B-26 bombers.

> If the Cubans in Guatamala, that were supposed to fly the B 26 bombers
> hadn't chickened out and refused to take off without a guarentee of

It's not just a matter of chickening out. The were exhausted from flying
so many sorties with no rest.