Was the JFK Dallas motorcade ....
cdddraftsman
The motorcade consisted of numerous cars, police motorcycles and press
buses :
The pilot car, a white Ford sedan: Dallas Police Deputy Chief George L.
Lumpkin, Dallas homicide detectives Billy L. Senkel and F.M. Turner, and
Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer, commander of the local Army Intelligence
reserve unit.[104]
Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle officers under the command of
Sgt. S. Q. Bellah.
Five two-wheel motorcycle officers.
The lead car, an unmarked white Ford police sedan: Dallas Police Chief
Jesse Curry (driver), Secret Service Agent Winston Lawson (right front),
Sheriff Bill Decker (left rear), Agent Forrest Sorrels (right rear).[105]
Two-wheel motorcycle officer Sgt. Stavis "Steve" Ellis.[106]
The presidential limousine, known to the Secret Service as SS-100-X (with
District of Columbia license plate GG 300), a dark blue 1961 Lincoln
Continental convertible: Agent Bill Greer (driver), Agent Roy Kellerman
(right front), Nellie Connally (left middle), Texas Governor John Connally
(right middle), First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy (left rear), President
Kennedy (right rear).
Four Dallas Police motorcycle escorts, two on each side of the
presidential limousine, flanking the rear bumper: Billy Joe Martin and
Robert W. “Bobby” Hargis (left), and James M. Chaney and Douglas L.
Jackson (right).[107]
Halfback (a Secret Service code name), a black 1955 Cadillac convertible:
Agent Sam Kinney (driver), Agent Emory Roberts (right front), Agent Clint
Hill (left front running board), Agent Bill McIntyre (left rear running
board), Agent John D. Ready (right front running board), Agent Paul Landis
(right rear running board), Presidential aide Kenneth O'Donnell (left
middle), Presidential aide David Powers (right middle), Agent George
Hickey (left rear), Agent Glen Bennett (right rear).[108]
1961 light blue Lincoln four door convertible: Hurchel Jacks of the Texas
Highway Patrol (driver), Agent Rufus Youngblood (right front), Senator
Ralph Yarborough (left rear), Lady Bird Johnson (center rear),
Vice-President Lyndon Johnson (right rear).[109]
Varsity (Secret Service code name), a yellow 1963 Ford Mercury hardtop:
Joe H. Rich of the Texas Highway Patrol (driver), Vice Presidential aide
Cliff Carter (front middle), Secret Service agents Jerry Kivett (right
front), Warren W. "Woody" Taylor (left rear), and Thomas L. "Len" Johns
(right rear).[110]
White 1963 Ford Mercury Comet convertible: Texas Highway Patrolman
Milton T. Wright (driver), Dallas mayor
Earle Cabell and his wife Elizabeth, and Congressman Ray Roberts.
[111]
National press pool car (on loan from the telephone company), a blue- gray
1960 Chevrolet Bel Air sedan: telephone company driver; assistant White
House press secretary Malcolm Kilduff (right front); Merriman Smith, UPI
(middle front); Jack Bell, AP; Robert Baskin, Dallas Morning News; Bob
Clark, ABC News (rear).
First camera car, a yellow 1964 Chevrolet Impala Convertible: a Texas
Ranger (driver); David Wiegman Jr., NBC; Thomas J. Craven Jr., CBS; Thomas
"Ollie" Atkins, White House photographer; John Hofan, an NBC sound
engineer; Cleveland Ryan, a lighting technician.
Second camera car: Frank Cancellare, UPI; Cecil Stoughton, White House
photographer; Henry Burroughs, AP; Art Rickerby, Life magazine; Donald C.
“Clint” Grant, Dallas Morning News. Dallas Police motorcycle escorts
H.B. McLain and Marion L. Baker.
Third camera car, a Chevrolet convertible: driver from the Texas
Department of Public Safety; photographer Robert H. Jackson, The Dallas
Times Herald; photographer Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News; Jimmy
Darnell, WBAP-TV, Fort Worth; Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC [3]; James R.
Underwood, KRLD-TV.[112]
First car of Congressmen.
Second car of Congressmen.
Third car of Congressmen.
VIP staff car carrying a governor's aide and the military and Air Force
aides to the president.
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts J.W. Courson and C.A. Haygood.
First White House press bus: Mary Barelli Gallagher, Jacqueline Kennedy's
personal secretary; Pamela Turnure, Jacqueline Kennedy's press secretary;
Marie Fehmer Chiarodo, the Vice President's secretary; Liz Carpenter,
staff director for Lady Bird Johnson; Jack Valenti, in charge of press
relations during President Kennedy's visit to Texas; Robert MacNeil, NBC
News; and a few others.[113]
Local press car with four Dallas Morning News reporters.
Second White House press bus.
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts R. Smart and B.J. Dale.
Chevrolet sedan: Evelyn Lincoln, the President's personal secretary;
Dr. George Burkley, the President's personal physician.
1957 black Ford hardtop: Two representatives from Western Union.
1964 white Chevrolet Impala: White House Signal Corps officer Art
Bales; Army Warrant Officer Ira Gearhart.
1964 white-top, dark-body Chevrolet Impala.
Third White House press bus: staff and members of the Democratic
Party.
1963 black and white Ford police car.
Solo three-wheel Dallas Police motorcycle escort.
Keynotes :
[104]^ Warren Commission Testimony of F.M. Turner, April 3, 1964.
Detective Senkel's surname is misspelled as "Shekel" in Turner's
Warren Commission testimony.
[105]^ Statement of Winston G. Lawson, Dec. 1, 1963. Warren Commission
Testimony of Forrest V. Sorrels, May 7, 1964.
[106]^ Interview of Stavis Ellis by Larry A. Sneed, No More Silence:
An Oral History of the Assassination of President Kennedy, University
of North Texas Press, 2002, p. 144.
[107]^ Warren Commission Testimony of B.J. Martin, April 3, 1964.
Warren Commission Testimony of Bobby W. Hargis, April 8, 1964. Gary
Savage, JFK First Day Evidence, Shoppe Press, 1993, p. 363. ISBN
0-963-81165-7.
[108]^ Statement of Emory P. Roberts, Nov. 29, 1963. Statement of
Samuel A. Kinney, Nov. 30, 1963.
[109]^ [Statement of Hurchel Jacks], Nov. 28, 1963. Statement of Rufus
W. Youngblood, Nov. 29, 1963.
[110]^ Statement of Joe Henry Rich, Nov. 28, 1963. Statement of Jerry
D. Kivett, Nov. 29, 1963. Statement of Thomas L. Johns, Nov. 29, 1963.
Report of Clifton C. Carter, May 20, 1964.
[111]^ Statement of Milton T. Wright, Nov. 28, 1963. Warren Commission
Testimony of Earle Cabell, July 13, 1964.
[112]^ Warren Commission Testimony of Robert Hill Jackson. Warren
Commission Testimony of Tom C. Dillard, April 1, 1964.
[113]^ Transcript, Marie Fehmer Chiarodo Oral History Interview II,
August 16, 1972, by Joe B. Frantz, Internet Copy, Lyndon B. Johnson
Library.
end ....
tl
thali...@hotmail.com
Just listing all the cars in the motorcade and who was in them is not
security by the way.
Look at these photos:
thali...@hotmail.com
Well the press car was usually right up the front in motorcades, this
time it was well at the back. The army was told they were not needed
as extra security despite it being offered (this is despite Dallas
being a known 'hostile' city) What harm could extra security do?
Kennedy went right by bushes (the grassy knoll) and there was no
official security there (the word "ambush" springs to mind) as well as
open windows along the motorcade route. You also have a long time
between Kennedy being hit the first time (he could have been saved at
this point) and SS officers doing nothing, and actively being told to
stay where they were (?????) I have alos thought it weird that there
was no motorcycke cops in front of the limo, at the bend they go slow
so that the limo goes past so the Kennedy's car is the "lead" car. No,
sorry, security was severely compromised and is one of the biggest
indicators of a massive conspiracy coming from within the state.
yeuhd
> The motorcade consisted of numerous cars, police motorcycles and press
> buses :
Where is this list from?
yeuhd
> between Kennedy being hit the first time (he could have been saved at
> this point) and SS officers doing nothing, and actively being told to
> stay where they were (?????)
Could you name those Secret Service officers — plural — who were told
to "stay where they were", and at what point they were told this,
i.e., after which shot(s)?
No agent was told any such thing between the two shots that hit
Kennedy.
Agent Joe Ready jumped from the running board of the Secret Service
follow-up car *after* the fatal head shot, as Agent Clint Hill was
about to mount the step onto the rear of the presidential limousine.
Senior Agent Emory Roberts told Ready to get back, as the limousine
was already speeding up and he would not be able to make it (Hill
barely made it).
The Orville Nix film shows Ready jumping from the running board (circa
N221) *after* the fatal head shot (Z313, N197) and as Clint Hill is
about to mount the rear bumper step of the presidential limousine:
http://www.jfk-online.com/Nix1.avi
From Emory Roberts' report of Nov. 29, 1963:
"12:30 p.m. First of three shots fired, at which time I saw the
President lean toward Mrs. Kennedy. I do not know if it was the next
shot or third shot that hit the President in the head, but I saw what
appeared to be a small explosion on the right side of the President's
head, saw blood, at which time the President fell further to his left.
Mrs. Kennedy was leaning toward the President, however, she
immediately raised up in the seat and appeared to be getting up on
back of same. About this time I saw SA Clinton Hill trying to get on
left rear step of the President's car. He got aboard and climbed up
over the back of the car and placed himself over the President and
Mrs. Kennedy. After SA Hill got on rear step of the President's car,
it appeared that SA John Ready was about to follow and go for the
right rear step, however, I told him not to jump, as we had picked up
speed, and I was afraid he could not make it."
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0374b.ht=
m
> I have alos thought it weird that there
> was no motorcycke cops in front of the limo,
Re-read the list above. Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle
officers under the command of Sgt. S. Q. Bellah, and five two-wheel
motorcycle officers, were in front of the lead car and the
presidential limousine. The purpose of the mounted officers in front
of the limousine was to clear the streets of any pedestrians before
the limousine arrived. They were not Secret Service agents.
> at the bend they go slow
> so that the limo goes past so the Kennedy's car is the "lead" car.
The presidential limousine was never the lead car at any time. Amateur
films that begin with the presidential limousine going by give this
false impression.
slats
news:92060397-a5e9-4d35...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> Agent Joe Ready jumped from the running board of the Secret Service
> follow-up car *after* the fatal head shot, as Agent Clint Hill was
> about to mount the step onto the rear of the presidential limousine.
> Senior Agent Emory Roberts told Ready to get back, as the limousine
> was already speeding up and he would not be able to make it (Hill
> barely made it).
>
> The Orville Nix film shows Ready jumping from the running board (circa
> N221) *after* the fatal head shot (Z313, N197) and as Clint Hill is
> about to mount the rear bumper step of the presidential limousine:
> http://www.jfk-online.com/Nix1.avi
Don't tell that to Tony. He's adamant that Ready never placed one foot on
Elm Street. I offered to pay for his eye test, but he declined.
thali...@hotmail.com
> m
>
> > I have alos thought it weird that there
> > was no motorcycke cops in front of the limo,
>
> Re-read the list above. Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle
> officers under the command of Sgt. S. Q. Bellah, and five two-wheel
> motorcycle officers, were in front of the lead car and the
> presidential limousine. The purpose of the mounted officers in front
> of the limousine was to clear the streets of any pedestrians before
> the limousine arrived. They were not Secret Service agents.
>
> > at the bend they go slow
> > so that the limo goes past so the Kennedy's car is the "lead" car.
>
> The presidential limousine was never the lead car at any time. Amateur
> films that begin with the presidential limousine going by give this
>
> - Show quoted text -
The limo was the "lead" car by the time of the shots: the other "lead"
car was so far in front it was barely in the motorcade at that point.
thali...@hotmail.com
> m
>
> > I have alos thought it weird that there
> > was no motorcycke cops in front of the limo,
>
> Re-read the list above. Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle
> officers under the command of Sgt. S. Q. Bellah, and five two-wheel
> motorcycle officers, were in front of the lead car and the
> presidential limousine. The purpose of the mounted officers in front
> of the limousine was to clear the streets of any pedestrians before
> the limousine arrived. They were not Secret Service agents.
>
> > at the bend they go slow
> > so that the limo goes past so the Kennedy's car is the "lead" car.
>
> The presidential limousine was never the lead car at any time. Amateur
> films that begin with the presidential limousine going by give this
>
> - Show quoted text -
In response to your questions, this article may help you:
Anthony Marsh
Vince Palamara is a sloppy researcher and the original question is a
little more complicated than the pat answers given.
Anthony Marsh
The meaning of the word "lead" is misunderstood. Some people think it
means the FIRST car of the motorcade proper. In this case it means the
first vehicle along the parade route. The parade route is cleared and
inspected for trouble by the LEAD cycles and the LEAD police car. In other
motorcades there was no need for a LEAD police car and the JFK was indeed
the first CAR along the route.
Anthony Marsh
I just had my eye test. You owe me $18 which is my co-pay. The results
have not been sent to me, but the doctor said my eyes are better than
perfect. Vision is 20/16.
Your Nix1.avi is junk. Doesn't show what you claim.
Why don't you show me a blow-up from the original frame where you think
you see something? Ready is on the opposite side and you can't see him
step down onto Elm Street through the Queen Mary. He started to, but was
called back by Emory.
As a serious researcher you do have an 8 mm copy of the Nix film, don't
you? Can you figure out the Nix frame numbers for reference? F65 perhaps?
Anthony Marsh
I assume you mean just in the Dallas motorcade. In other motorcades it
was the first car.
slats
news:495fd713$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu:
> On 1/2/2009 11:49 PM, slats wrote:
>> yeuhd<Needle...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:92060397-a5e9-4d35-9a39-fe4bd448bc84
Time to find a new doc, Mr. Magoo. Ready's right foot is clearly
illuminated by the sunlight under the QM. Why would Roberts need to
"recall" someone who never actually, you know, LEFT the car? Again, your
puerile contrarian act is waaaaaay past it's expiration date.
Anthony Marsh
Todd Vaughan compiled a list, some of which is reprinted in Pictures of
the Pain.
jfk...@gmail.com
> > m
>
> >> I have alos thought it weird that there
> >> was no motorcycke cops in front of the limo,
>
> > Re-read the list above. Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle
> > officers under the command of Sgt. S. Q. Bellah, and five two-wheel
> > motorcycle officers, were in front of the lead car and the
> > presidential limousine. The purpose of the mounted officers in front
> > of the limousine was to clear the streets of any pedestrians before
> > the limousine arrived. They were not Secret Service agents.
>
> >> at the bend they go slow
> >> so that the limo goes past so the Kennedy's car is the "lead" car.
>
> > The presidential limousine was never the lead car at any time. Amateur
> > films that begin with the presidential limousine going by give this
> > false impression.
>
> I assume you mean just in the Dallas motorcade. In other motorcades it
> was the first car.
In the Dallas motorcade the Presidential limo had the number "7" on
its windshield. At some point, at least, it was not supposed to be
the first car.
Anthony Marsh
Sometimes, but not usually and not always. Look at ALL the motorcades.
> time it was well at the back. The army was told they were not needed
> as extra security despite it being offered (this is despite Dallas
> being a known 'hostile' city) What harm could extra security do?
> Kennedy went right by bushes (the grassy knoll) and there was no
> official security there (the word "ambush" springs to mind) as well as
> open windows along the motorcade route. You also have a long time
Kennedy knew the dangers. Just that morning he had commented that
someone could shoot him from an office window and there was nothing the
SS could do about it.
> between Kennedy being hit the first time (he could have been saved at
> this point) and SS officers doing nothing, and actively being told to
Clint Hill did try.
> stay where they were (?????) I have alos thought it weird that there
> was no motorcycke cops in front of the limo, at the bend they go slow
> so that the limo goes past so the Kennedy's car is the "lead" car. No,
> sorry, security was severely compromised and is one of the biggest
> indicators of a massive conspiracy coming from within the state.
>
Not all motorcades would have cycles in front as well as behind.
Anthony Marsh
Show me the numbers on all the other cars. The order of the motorcade
was not as originally planned.
You did not address the point I made.
Anthony Marsh
No, it is not. You have not proved that.
He would recall the agent when he saw him start to jump off. It was too
late by then.
yeuhd
> No, it is not. You have not proved that.
> He would recall the agent when he saw him start to jump off. It was too
> late by then.
(1) Agent John Ready *said* in his report written on Nov. 22 that he
stepped off the running board:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0382b.htm
(2) The Nix film *shows* Ready stepping off the running board: he
drops several inches (roughly the height of his head), Nix's angle is
low enough that Ready's feet are visible on the pavement underneath
the car, and Ready moves forward (westward) of his former position
faster than the follow-up car itself, before he and the car disappear
off the right side of the movie frame.
Anthony Marsh
You are not the first to use this line of argument. I've been through this
hundreds of times with all the wacky conspiracy theorists. Jack White to
AM:
Look Marsh. Everyone with eyes can see Badge Man. If you can't him then I
suggest that you have your eyes examined.
_______
I asked you to name the specific frame number you are talking about. You
could not. Because you are simply guessing about this. Looking at a very
poor quality copy of a film and imagining things, like Morningstar. Ready
can not be running faster than the SS follow up car if you ALWAYS see the
same object that you call his feet in all the frames. There would have to
be two objects changing positions, rising and falling.
yeuhd
> I asked you to name the specific frame number you are talking about.
No, you did not ask me that. Once again (this is getting to be a habit
of yours), you have confused me with someone else.
> You could not.
See above my post of Jan 2, 9:18 pm.
> Ready
> can not be running faster than the SS follow up car if you ALWAYS see the
> same object that you call his feet in all the frames.
Please quote where anyone here says "always" or "all".
Anthony Marsh
> On Jan 5, 7:08 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I asked you to name the specific frame number you are talking about.
>
> No, you did not ask me that. Once again (this is getting to be a habit
> of yours), you have confused me with someone else.
>
Of course when you snip out the original message, newbies can not see
where I asked you to name the frame. I even suggested one.
You have not. You can not. You do not have the Nix film.
yeuhd
> Of course when you snip out the original message, newbies can not see
> where I asked you to name the frame. I even suggested one.
> You have not.
Once again, I refer you to my post above of Jan 2, 9:18 pm: "The Orville
Nix film shows Ready jumping from the running board (circa N221) *after*
the fatal head shot (Z313, N197) and as Clint Hill is about to mount the
rear bumper step of the presidential limousine."
And I do in fact have a copy of the Nix film, so you've lied there too.
You also have this bad habit of lying about what materials people do or do
not own. You don't even know me, much less know what materials I own.
You really have a problem with ever admitting that you were wrong, don't
you?
Nix frame 197 (= Zapruder 313):
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566967.html
Agent John Ready is visible in N221, standing on the running board of
the Secret Service follow-up car on the right side of the frame, when
he begins to drop:
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566991.html
In the following sequence, his feet can be seen below the car as he
alights onto the pavement:
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566994.html
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566995.html
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566996.html
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566997.html
Ready's height from N221 to N228 has dropped roughly the height of his
head:
http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566998.html
Anthony Marsh
> On Jan 6, 10:38 am, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Of course when you snip out the original message, newbies can not see
>> where I asked you to name the frame. I even suggested one.
>> You have not.
>
> Once again, I refer you to my post above of Jan 2, 9:18 pm: "The Orville
> Nix film shows Ready jumping from the running board (circa N221) *after*
> the fatal head shot (Z313, N197) and as Clint Hill is about to mount the
> rear bumper step of the presidential limousine."
>
> And I do in fact have a copy of the Nix film, so you've lied there too.
> You also have this bad habit of lying about what materials people do or do
> not own. You don't even know me, much less know what materials I own.
>
> You really have a problem with ever admitting that you were wrong, don't
> you?
>
> Nix frame 197 (= Zapruder 313):
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566967.html
>
See if you can see what the three letters are which are faintly visible
at the bottom of the frame to the right. And see if you can figure out
what they stand for and thus what the source of the image was.
Anthony Marsh
>> Of course when you snip out the original message, newbies can not see
>> where I asked you to name the frame. I even suggested one.
>> You have not.
>
> Once again, I refer you to my post above of Jan 2, 9:18 pm: "The Orville
> Nix film shows Ready jumping from the running board (circa N221) *after*
> the fatal head shot (Z313, N197) and as Clint Hill is about to mount the
> rear bumper step of the presidential limousine."
>
> And I do in fact have a copy of the Nix film, so you've lied there too.
I am not talking about you finding one online. I am talking about the 8
mm film.
> You also have this bad habit of lying about what materials people do or do
> not own. You don't even know me, much less know what materials I own.
>
> You really have a problem with ever admitting that you were wrong, don't
> you?
>
> Nix frame 197 (= Zapruder 313):
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566967.html
>
> Agent John Ready is visible in N221, standing on the running board of
> the Secret Service follow-up car on the right side of the frame, when
> he begins to drop:
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566991.html
>
It shows no such drop and no feet.
> In the following sequence, his feet can be seen below the car as he
> alights onto the pavement:
>
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566994.html
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566995.html
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566996.html
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566997.html
>
> Ready's height from N221 to N228 has dropped roughly the height of his
> head:
> http://jfk.fotopic.net/p37566998.html
>
No, it doesn't. Are you claiming he wore white shoes? His waist is still
at the height of the door. No feet and his arm is extended indicating that
he is still holding onto the side of the car. Maybe you are confused and
what you are seeing is the glint off the left running board.
yeuhd
> See if you can see what the three letters are which are faintly visible
> at the bottom of the frame to the right. And see if you can figure out
> what they stand for and thus what the source of the image was.
Can't admit your're wrong about Agent Ready stepping off the running
board? Change the subject!