Shenon on June Cobb / American Spy

[John McAdams]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/20/what-could-a-mysterious-us-spy-know-about-the-jfk-assassination-215143

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

Not much new here. Newman went over this in more detail in his "Oswald and
the CIA." He interviewed Cobb for the book. She lived with Garro for
awhile about a month after the assassination when Garro told her about the
party. According to Newman's account Cobb/Sharp told Garro that she was a
CIA agent.

Russo gives this account (his footnote is from Newman). It's about the
so-called "twist party" that Elena Garro attended and where she said she
saw Oswald with Duran and other Cuban officials.

"Garro first told her story [about seeing Oswald with Duran at the party]
on October 5, 1964, eleven days after the Warren Commission findings were
released. She told it to June Cobb Sharp, an occasional contact of the
U.S. Embassy. According to Sharp, Garro had come to the conclusion that
"the party must have been set up by those Cuban individuals involved, and
[by] some of their Mexican friends, so that they could provide an
underground for Oswald after the assassination, in which there would be
people who would recognize him and assist in his escape."

Boy, that's a reach. They set up an underground escape for Oswald two
months before the event? At a party? With others - like the anti-communist
Garro - attending?

[John McAdams]

On 20 May 2017 22:53:33 -0400, stevemg...@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 10:11:21 AM UTC-4, John McAdams wrote:
>> http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/20/what-could-a-mysterious-us-spy-know-about-the-jfk-assassination-215143
>>
>> .John
>> -----------------------
>> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>
>Not much new here. Newman went over this in more detail in his "Oswald and
>the CIA." He interviewed Cobb for the book. She lived with Garro for
>awhile about a month after the assassination when Garro told her about the
>party. According to Newman's account Cobb/Sharp told Garro that she was a
>CIA agent.
>
>Russo gives this account (his footnote is from Newman). It's about the
>so-called "twist party" that Elena Garro attended and where she said she
>saw Oswald with Duran and other Cuban officials.
>
>"Garro first told her story [about seeing Oswald with Duran at the party]
>on October 5, 1964, eleven days after the Warren Commission findings were
>released. She told it to June Cobb Sharp, an occasional contact of the
>U.S. Embassy. According to Sharp, Garro had come to the conclusion that
>"the party must have been set up by those Cuban individuals involved, and
>[by] some of their Mexican friends, so that they could provide an
>underground for Oswald after the assassination, in which there would be
>people who would recognize him and assist in his escape."
>

Interesting. I read Russo long ago, and didn't remember that
(probably since I have never taken the "twist party" story seriously).

But I've recently read Shenon. And he doesn't mention the "assist in
his escape" business.

He, in fact, accepts Garro's credibility.

That's a mark against Shenon's credibility.

So is his account of Coleman meeting with Fidel Castro. Coleman
apparently said this one time, and at other times said he had not met
with Castro.

Coleman was no crackpot. In fact, he was an extremely reputable
fellow. But the most honest people in the world are prone to false
memories.

Another mark against Shenon.

>Boy, that's a reach. They set up an underground escape for Oswald two
>months before the event? At a party? With others - like the anti-communist
>Garro - attending?
>

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On Sat, 20 May 2017 09:11:17 -0500, John McAdams
<john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote:

>
>http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/20/what-could-a-mysterious-us-spy-know-about-the-jfk-assassination-215143
>

From an e-mail sent to a discussion group by Alan Rogers, and posted
here with permission:

<Quote on>

Shennon is twisting facts to squeeze shiny objects out of it. When I
talked with June Cobb, she told me that she befriended Garro to report
on her tale of the twist party. But then, like a day later, she told
Cobb that she had saved her daughters life. While her daughter was on
the surgery table, her father, Octavio Paz, tried to kill the girl.
Cobb then reported to forget Garros tales. She was flaming red crazy.
Other people have confirmed this. It doesn't really matter that
gullible people later picked up Garros tale again. They didn't have
the complete perspective on Garro. If you don't know, Octavio Paz is a
world renowned poet and author, a well respected man of peace. Garros
tale is sort of like her telling you she saw Gandhi strangle his own
son. You would be wise to be sceptical of Garros tales.


Alan Rogers

<end quote>
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Anthony Marsh]

Gus Russo is a professional liar who worked as a disinformation agent
for the CIA, specifically Richard Helms. He is the moron who made up the
fake story that the wooden box at the reinternment of JFK in 1968
contained JFK's brain which they reburied in his new vault, I found the
photo which proves that the box was EMPTY. Stop falling for CIA lies.

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

According to Russo, Garro was sympathetic towards the poor in Latin
America but was strongly anti-communist and anti-Castro (much like her
husband the famous poet Octavio Paz). Duran was, I'm sure, aware of this.
So, it's odd that she would be invited to a party (by Duran?) where Cuban
agents would supposedly lay out Oswald's plan to escape after
assassinating JFK.

Odd as in absurd. It sounds like the Perry Russo story, doesn't it?

Shenon has a earned reputation of taking little things and exaggerating
their significance. He's sort of a Jefferson Morley but substitute DGI for
the CIA. My guess is that these files will show that Cobb provided
information to the CIA on occasion.

I'm skeptical of the "twist party" but also very skeptical about Duran's
claims that she didn't see Oswald other than those two incidents at the
consulate.

Shenon is right, I think, to believe there's more to the MC story than has
been revealed. Oswald was determined to get to Cuba; he worked all summer
polishing up that pro-Castro resume. He had a history of not taking no for
an answer.

[Anthony Marsh]

Ah, remind me again why we should even listen to those silly tales.
But that does not make Cobb Miss Bond by default.

> -----------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:46:16 AM UTC-4, John McAdams wrote:

Win Scott said similar things about Garro. Viz., that she was, well,
crazy.

For the "CIA killed JFK" crowd (not the rogue element theorists): how do
you explain that they, especially the MC station (where Phillips was a
major player), knocked down all of these claims about Oswald being seen
with the Cuban agents? Or having received money from Cuban agents to kill
JFK?

Your theory makes no sense. The CIA et al. framed a pro-Castro person in
order to tie the assassination to Castro and justify an invasion. But then
AFTER the assassination the CIA and FBI et cetera CLEARED Castro of any
involvement. That's contradictory.

Again, I'm not referring to the "rogue CIA elements killed JFK"
proponents. I'm talking about those that believe the CIA institutionally -
Angleton, McCone, Helms et al committed the act.

[John McAdams]

I'm skeptical of that. Duran was a rather attractive women, and such
women are easily the subject of unfounded gossip. Sometimes from
jealous other women.

>Shenon is right, I think, to believe there's more to the MC story than has
>been revealed. Oswald was determined to get to Cuba; he worked all summer
>polishing up that pro-Castro resume. He had a history of not taking no for
>an answer.

I've always thought that the accounts of his seeking help from left
wingers and the local university had some plausibility. It sounds
like the sort of thing he might do.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Anthony Marsh]

That's where I part company with them. They don't understand
compartmentalization or interdepartment rivalries.
And it was actually Phillips who broke one of the hoaxers.

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm

On November 25, 1963 a Nicaraguan intelligence officer sympathetic to
the Cuban exiles named Alvarado Ugarte Gilberto claimed that on September
18, 1963 he saw a Cuban consulate employee give $6,5000 in cash to Oswald
to assassinate the President. Because his story was so elaborate and
because it fit in with the prevailing suspicions in the intelligence
community it was widely believed to be true. But under intense questioning
by the CIA, Alvarado's story began to unravel. Oswald could not have been
at the Cuban Consulate in Mexico on the day that he allegedly received the
cash, because he was known to have been in New Orleans appplying for
unemployment insurance. And there was no red-headed Negro Cuban
intelligence officer working at the Cuban Consulate in Mexico. Alvarado
admitted that he had made up the story in hopes that the US would be
prompted to invade Cuba in retaliation. The assassination of a head of
state is a casus belli.

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

It's the Saturday call that indicates Duran was deceptive. She denied
making this to the HSCA and to Summers et al. Could she have forgotten?
How did Oswald get into the consulate? Who let him in? She gave him her
number; it was found among his possessions.

Saturday call transcript: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/cia/201/104-10015-10326/html/ARRB_CIA_12-20-95_F2_0038a.htm

[PF]

Coincidence. Both June Cobb and Jerrie Cobb came from Oklahoma. Jerrie
Cobb was one of the women in the Mercury 13 program. An article in the New
York Times from June 15, 1957, reports that Jerrie Cobb, from Ponca City
(birthplace of June Cobb) "today claimed an unofficial world's altitude
record of 30,330 feet for light twin-engine planes. Miss Cobb, 26 year
old, of Ponca City, made the test flight in an Aero Commander 680 in 109
minutes from Tulsa Airport. Her plane was the same model used by President
Eisenhower for short flights."

Perhaps they were related although not siblings. Population of Ponca City
in 1930 was 16,136.

PF

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

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