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Silly "George Bush Didn't Know Where He Was" Factoid

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John McAdams

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Oct 21, 2013, 12:49:55 AM10/21/13
to
It's become a standard factoid that George H.W. Bush "could not
remember where he was when he heard that John Kennedy had been shot."

Russ Baker said this at the Thursday night panel at WechtFest.

Afterward, I asked him about a source.

He said he thought it was a message he had gotten from somebody who
saw Bush say that on a foreign network (see seemed to think Japanese).

I asked if he had the message.

He said he had been asked for it before, and could not find the
message.

So it seems it was only hearsay, and he can't document even the
hearsay.

This needs to go in the "silly factoid" file.

Indeed, how stupid is this as evidence of some sinister activity by
Bush? Had he been involved in any sinister activity, he doubtless
would have a cover story, and have it down pat.

.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Anthony Marsh

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Oct 21, 2013, 12:05:52 PM10/21/13
to
On 10/21/2013 12:49 AM, John McAdams wrote:
> It's become a standard factoid that George H.W. Bush "could not
> remember where he was when he heard that John Kennedy had been shot."
>

I think someone was confabulating memes.
That is often said about Nixon (falsely).

> Russ Baker said this at the Thursday night panel at WechtFest.
>
> Afterward, I asked him about a source.
>
> He said he thought it was a message he had gotten from somebody who
> saw Bush say that on a foreign network (see seemed to think Japanese).
>
> I asked if he had the message.
>
> He said he had been asked for it before, and could not find the
> message.
>
> So it seems it was only hearsay, and he can't document even the
> hearsay.
>
> This needs to go in the "silly factoid" file.
>
> Indeed, how stupid is this as evidence of some sinister activity by
> Bush? Had he been involved in any sinister activity, he doubtless
> would have a cover story, and have it down pat.
>

Kooks will always try to drag their favorite villains into any conspiracy.

> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>


Ralph Cinque

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Oct 21, 2013, 9:18:35 PM10/21/13
to
In the 1988 Presidential election, George HW Bush said he couldn't
remember where he was when JFK got shot. "Somewhere in Texas" was all he
could venture. That is a direct quote.

Ralph Cinque

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Oct 21, 2013, 9:19:41 PM10/21/13
to
Roger Stone reported that he asked George HW Bush that question directly
and got that answer about not remembering where he was. There is
documentary evidence that Bush stayed at the Dallas Sheraton the nights of
November 21 and November 22.

curtj...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 22, 2013, 10:23:19 PM10/22/13
to
How about the 'Un'factoid file?

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

OHLeeRedux

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Oct 22, 2013, 11:12:54 PM10/22/13
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George Bush didn't remember where he was when he heard that JFK had been
shot.

Richard Nixon didn't remember either.

What a coincidence. We see here again the liberal/conservative prejudices
vis a vis the CT/LN opposition. It is, supposedly, the conservative
leaders who were stricken with amnesia. Did anyone ask Hillary Clinton or
Jane Fonda where they were when they heard the news?

Not that I have anything against Hillary or Jane. I almost voted for the
former and loved the latter's performance in On Golden Pond.

Anthony Marsh

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Oct 23, 2013, 12:52:14 AM10/23/13
to
On 10/22/2013 10:14 PM, John Fiorentino wrote:
>
> "Ralph Cinque" <buda...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c84ffdef-2604-4724...@googlegroups.com...
> Not exactly...............
>
> Bush called the FBI from Tyler Texas on 11/22/63 to offer a tip.
>
> He indicated he was PROCEEDING to Dallas and would remain in
> the Sheraton-Dallas, then return to his residence on 11/23/63.
>
> See attached FBI Memorandum............

Is that 1:45 EST or CST?


Anthony Marsh

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Oct 23, 2013, 11:27:00 AM10/23/13
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On 10/22/2013 11:12 PM, OHLeeRedux wrote:
> George Bush didn't remember where he was when he heard that JFK had been
> shot.
>
> Richard Nixon didn't remember either.
>

Nonsense. He was interviewed and photographed at the airport in New York.
What do you hope to gain just by constantly throwing out wild allegations?
Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Oct 23, 2013, 9:10:10 PM10/23/13
to

JOHN McADAMS SAID:

It's become a standard factoid that George H.W. Bush "could not remember
where he was when he heard that John Kennedy had been shot." .... This
needs to go in the "silly factoid" file.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

One of the many new books coming out this year on the JFK assassination is
one by Jodie Elliott Hansen called "November 22, 1963: Ordinary And
Extraordinary People Recall Their Reactions When They Heard The News".

And on the back cover of that book is a signed letter written to Mrs.
Hansen by George H.W. Bush in August of 1979. In that letter, Bush recalls
quite well where he was when JFK was shot. Quoting Bush from the letter:
"I was in Tyler, Texas on November 22, 1963 to give a political speech."

Here's a picture of the letter as it appears on the back cover of Jodie
Hansen's 2013 book:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v5M6NvpAmk4/Umg7QKYxFaI/AAAAAAAAwG0/22JF5BgX8aE/s3000-h/November-22-1963-Book-Back-Cover.jpg

Link to Hansen's book:
http://Amazon.com/gp/product/1250037484?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1250037484&linkCode=xm2&tag=dvsre-20

John McAdams

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Oct 23, 2013, 10:33:45 PM10/23/13
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On 23 Oct 2013 21:00:13 -0400, David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com>
wrote:

>
>JOHN McADAMS SAID:
>
>It's become a standard factoid that George H.W. Bush "could not remember
>where he was when he heard that John Kennedy had been shot." .... This
>needs to go in the "silly factoid" file.
>
>
>DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
>One of the many new books coming out this year on the JFK assassination is
>one by Jodie Elliott Hansen called "November 22, 1963: Ordinary And
>Extraordinary People Recall Their Reactions When They Heard The News".
>
>And on the back cover of that book is a signed letter written to Mrs.
>Hansen by George H.W. Bush in August of 1979. In that letter, Bush recalls
>quite well where he was when JFK was shot. Quoting Bush from the letter:
>"I was in Tyler, Texas on November 22, 1963 to give a political speech."
>
>Here's a picture of the letter as it appears on the back cover of Jodie
>Hansen's 2013 book:
>
>http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v5M6NvpAmk4/Umg7QKYxFaI/AAAAAAAAwG0/22JF5BgX8aE/s1600-h/November-22-1963-Book-Back-Cover.jpg
Nice find!

Unless somebody can find an *earlier* statement with Bush saying he
"didn't know where he was" then this one is dead.

And maybe not even then.

If somebody asks Bush were he was "when Kennedy was shot," being
unsure might be perfectly reasonable. If one were traveling, one
might not have known where one was "when Kennedy was shot," since one
might not have known the exact time Kennedy was shot.

Some minutes, or even an hour later, one might have found out Kennedy
has been shot. One would likely remember *finding out.*

.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Mike

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Oct 23, 2013, 11:08:27 PM10/23/13
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No. He would know he was in a car traveling between x and y.

Or in an airplane going from a to b.

There is no reasonable explanation for not knowing where you were when
you heard the news JFK was assassinated.

Its like not knowing where you were when you first heard about 911.



Ralph Cinque

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Oct 23, 2013, 11:35:22 PM10/23/13
to
Yeah, that's right, the fixer, Mrs. Bush. It doesn't change what George HW
Bush said when asked.

curtj...@hotmail.com

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Oct 24, 2013, 12:24:07 PM10/24/13
to
OR is may never be dead if there is no proof he gave a speech, or at what
time he gave it. So far it's hearsay on his part. He could be
conveniently supplying an alibi. And I do believe that he did have
'amnesia' as it wouldn't be so widely reported on, it seems. And of
course, if you're in Dallas, why deny you were in Dallas? Don't forget
too, Tyler Texas is less than a 100 miles to Dallas.

Bud

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Oct 24, 2013, 12:32:38 PM10/24/13
to
An unsupported opinion stated as absolute fact, you must be a conspiracy
hobbyist.

> Its like not knowing where you were when you first heard about 911.

This made me reach for an old Skeptic magazine (2005) on the subject of
"Flashbulb Memories" ("How psychological research shows that our most
powerful memories may be untrustworthy")[Skeptic Magazine, Volume 11
Number 3]. It showed that memories changed significantly in people from
the day after the attack to just a few years later. One study showed that
73% of the people thought they had seen the first plane hit the towers,
when no such footage was shown the first day.

Bud

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Oct 24, 2013, 12:32:54 PM10/24/13
to
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:35:22 PM UTC-4, Ralph Cinque wrote:
> Yeah, that's right, the fixer, Mrs. Bush. It doesn't change what George HW
>
> Bush said when asked.

Right, he said he was in Tyler, Texas.

John Fiorentino

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Oct 24, 2013, 6:54:45 PM10/24/13
to

"Mike" <MikeR...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:52688e20$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
READ the FBI Memo I posted. Bush's story checks out to the T.

John F.


John McAdams

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Oct 24, 2013, 8:34:13 PM10/24/13
to
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:27:00 AM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 10/22/2013 11:12 PM, OHLeeRedux wrote:
>
> > George Bush didn't remember where he was when he heard that JFK had been
>
> > shot.
>
> >
>
> > Richard Nixon didn't remember either.
>
> >
>
>
>
> Nonsense. He was interviewed and photographed at the airport in New York.
>
> What do you hope to gain just by constantly throwing out wild allegations?

I just looked at an old Skeptic Magazine that cited a 1973 Esquire
Magazine article ("Where Were You?"), and it had the following...

"On arrival in New York we caught a cab and headed for the city. The cab
had no radio on. As fate would have it, the cabby missed a turn somewhere
and we were off the highway, somewhere in the area of Astoria, Queens, I
think. We were stopped at a red light when a woman came out of her house
screaming and crying. I rolled down the cab window to ask her what the
matter was... She told me that John Kennedy had just been shot in Dallas.
We drove the rest of the way in silence."

-Richard Nixon`s memory of the Kennedy assassination

John Fiorentino

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Oct 24, 2013, 8:42:59 PM10/24/13
to

"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:edb5484b-d969-4b97...@googlegroups.com...
And THAT checks out with the FBI Memo I posted.

John F.


Anthony Marsh

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Oct 24, 2013, 8:47:56 PM10/24/13
to
Among that 73% was President Bush. So you're calling George Bush a kook.
Fine with me.


Mike

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Oct 24, 2013, 8:48:45 PM10/24/13
to
This is not about what they saw. It is about where they were when they
learned of it.

You got to ask the right question.

What they think they saw on the TV is not the same as where they were
when they first learned of the shocking event. I do not know the
mechanism but that becomes a solid and reliable memory.

I know exaclty where I was when I first leaned of 911 and I bet 95% of
people on the PLANET know exactly what they were doing when they first
learned of it.

Anthony Marsh

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Oct 24, 2013, 9:01:36 PM10/24/13
to
He wasn't in Dallas at the time of the assassination. If you want to
paint him as the mastermind, why does he have to be in Dallas during the
shooting? He would just hire people to do the shooting.


curtj...@hotmail.com

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Oct 24, 2013, 9:17:39 PM10/24/13
to
He said he was giving a political speech. Where? When? Audience? What
was in the speech?


Bud

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Oct 24, 2013, 9:19:04 PM10/24/13
to
Conspiracy hobbyists might cling to it regardless. They like these kind
of things, they are like trading cards, bantered around by hobbyists
forever, who never going anywhere with them buy doing it for the enjoyment
of the hobby. They like to kid themselves that they are actually doing
something significant.


> So far it's hearsay on his part.

And nothing on yours.

> He could be
>
> conveniently supplying an alibi.

For what?

> And I do believe that he did have
>
> 'amnesia' as it wouldn't be so widely reported on, it seems.

It seems conspiracy hobbyists like to repeat things they like the sound
of regardless of their validity.

> And of
>
> course, if you're in Dallas, why deny you were in Dallas? Don't forget
>
> too, Tyler Texas is less than a 100 miles to Dallas.

Still too far to be your mythical second shooter.

Bud

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Oct 24, 2013, 10:09:35 PM10/24/13
to
Why would he be a kook for being in the norm?

> Fine with me.


Bud

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Oct 24, 2013, 10:13:07 PM10/24/13
to
So it`s your contention that it is possible to be wrong in some respects
but impossible to be wrong in other respects. You base this contention on
faith, not science. It`s pretty difficult to place individuals in are
particular instant in history to test your idea.


> You got to ask the right question.
>
>
>
> What they think they saw on the TV is not the same as where they were
>
> when they first learned of the shocking event. I do not know the
>
> mechanism but that becomes a solid and reliable memory.

There is no mechanism. Science shows there is no such thing as a
reliable memory. Studies show that memories fade and decay over time, yet
confidence in them increases.


> I know exaclty where I was when I first leaned of 911 and I bet 95% of
>
> people on the PLANET know exactly what they were doing when they first
>
> learned of it.

You are offering assumption and opinion devoid of factual support.

Anthony Marsh

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Oct 25, 2013, 11:40:20 AM10/25/13
to
So are those who believe there was a conspiracy in the murder of JFK,
yet you call them kooks.

>> Fine with me.
>
>


Dave Reitzes

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Oct 25, 2013, 1:20:45 PM10/25/13
to
My mom remembers seeing the Zapruder film on TV during the weekend of the
assassination. I have assured her it wasn't shown on TV for another 12
years. She says she believes me, but I think she has her doubts.

I read somewhere a long time ago (I have no idea where) that a lot of
people have the same recollection of seeing the Z film on TV that weekend.

There was another poll I read many years ago about how people were often
wrong about where they were when they heard about the Space Shuttle
Challenger disaster.

Dave

John Fiorentino

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Oct 25, 2013, 4:42:15 PM10/25/13
to

<curtj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e04f99fc-25e3-4e71...@googlegroups.com...
I don't know.

What did you have for breakfast on Nov. 22, 1963?

John F.


Mike

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Oct 25, 2013, 7:35:22 PM10/25/13
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You read too many polls.

You can prove anything you want with polls.

Bud

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Oct 25, 2013, 7:38:52 PM10/25/13
to
No, I don`t, I call them ignorant of the facts of the case. The people I
call kooks usually have no such excuse.

> >> Fine with me.
>
> >
>
> >


David Von Pein

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Oct 25, 2013, 9:39:27 PM10/25/13
to
Addendum....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v5M6NvpAmk4/Umg7QKYxFaI/AAAAAAAAwG0/22JF5BgX8aE/s3000-h/November-22-1963-Book-Back-Cover.jpg

The 1979 letter signed by George Bush (linked above) doesn't say that he
GAVE a "political speech" on 11/22/63. It says he was in Tyler, Texas, "TO
GIVE a political speech".

My guess would be that if Bush's speech was scheduled for the afternoon or
evening, then Bush very likely never made that speech at all. The news of
JFK's assassination would have cancelled the plans for any such speech.

Of course, if it was a speech to be made around noontime (Texas time), or
in the morning, then he probably had already made the speech by the time
the assassination occurred.

But the main point is: George H.W. Bush wrote (and signed) a letter to a
total stranger (Mrs. Jodie Hansen) on August 25, 1979, wherein he says he
was in Tyler, Texas, on November 22, 1963.

curtj...@hotmail.com

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Oct 25, 2013, 9:40:24 PM10/25/13
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3029417&mesg_id=3029702

<begin quote>

On Don Imus, a couple DUers reported hearing Michael Beschloss relate how
Barbara Bush, Poppy's wife, told him she and Junior were in Dallas that
day to "watch the parade." My guess is that Poppy would be nearby,
perhaps on business.

<end quote>

John Fiorentino

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Oct 26, 2013, 12:37:38 PM10/26/13
to

"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5b955b74-5a0c-4c40...@googlegroups.com...
Which again matches perfectly with the FBI Memo I posted.

John F.


Bud

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Oct 26, 2013, 12:38:57 PM10/26/13
to
50 years after the fact you are still guessing. Think you`ll have
something to offer by the hundredth anniversary?

joemon...@gmail.com

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Dec 7, 2018, 9:25:33 PM12/7/18
to
Bush was in Dallas the day before and the day of the assassination of
JFK. I don’t know exactly when or where I heard Bush say he
didn’t know where he was, but I know for 100% fact that I heard
Bush say that from his mouth and it was televised.

There is a photo that’s some believe is George Bush on the steps
of the school book depository in Dealey Plaza within an hour of the
assassination.

That story from Nixon is a fantasy. Nixon was less than three blocks away
from Dealey Plaza at the moment of the assassination.

John McAdams

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Dec 7, 2018, 9:30:50 PM12/7/18
to
On 7 Dec 2018 21:25:30 -0500, joemon...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bush was in Dallas the day before and the day of the assassination of
>JFK. I don’t know exactly when or where I heard Bush say he
>didn’t know where he was, but I know for 100% fact that I heard
>Bush say that from his mouth and it was televised.
>

Point us to the video clip. Bush was in Tyler, Texas.

> There is a photo that’s some believe is George Bush on the steps
>of the school book depository in Dealey Plaza within an hour of the
>assassination.
>

But it isn't.

>That story from Nixon is a fantasy. Nixon was less than three blocks away
>from Dealey Plaza at the moment of the assassination.

No, he had left for New York before Kennedy arrived in Dallas.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/jfk/2018/11/19/friend-foe-kennedy-nixon-near-even-end

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

BT George

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Dec 8, 2018, 8:41:36 PM12/8/18
to
I missed this discussion. But you *absolutely* can have an incorrect
memory of where you were when a big event happened. (And if incorrect, you
might also fail to have a clear memory.). I learned this firsthand,
because when the Space Shuttle Challenger exploded I had a very clear
memory of the College classroom I was in when I first heard about it.

For years I thought this was correct, until a discussion on one of these
groups about false memories. Then I went back and looked what year that
happened in and realized it was in early 1986. The only problem was, the
class I “clearly” remember finding out about it in
happened during the Summer Session of 1984! Rather, I believe it was in a
different math class that I heard about it in, which is probably why I
conflated the memories.

John McAdams

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Dec 8, 2018, 8:44:31 PM12/8/18
to
On 8 Dec 2018 20:41:34 -0500, BT George <brockg...@gmail.com>
wrote:
What you said is perfectly accurate, but I need to point out that
nobody has produced a primary source for "Bush not knowing where he
was."

Until they do, this goes in the "factoid" file.

BTW, not know here you were when it *happened* is not the same as not
knowing where you were when you *heard about it.*

But it remains in the factoid file.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Anthony Marsh

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Dec 9, 2018, 1:33:12 PM12/9/18
to
Silly. You can't just go around accusing people at random.
I could claim that YOU were the grassy knoll shooter just for fun.

bigdog

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Dec 10, 2018, 12:36:35 AM12/10/18
to
I missed this thread when it first appeared 5 years ago. I am a bit
embarrassed to say that even after all these years, I still occasionally
get taken in by these factoids when I hear them get repeated so often.
Thanks for clearing this one up.


Anthony Marsh

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Dec 10, 2018, 11:15:47 AM12/10/18
to
1984? Now that I know that I know what happened. Big Brother hypnotized
you and gave you a false memory.

How many fingers am I holding up?

Anthony Marsh

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Dec 10, 2018, 11:16:03 AM12/10/18
to
On 12/8/2018 8:44 PM, John McAdams wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2018 20:41:34 -0500, BT George <brockg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I missed this discussion. But you *absolutely* can have an incorrect
>> memory of where you were when a big event happened. (And if incorrect, you
>> might also fail to have a clear memory.). I learned this firsthand,
>> because when the Space Shuttle Challenger exploded I had a very clear
>> memory of the College classroom I was in when I first heard about it.
>>
>> For years I thought this was correct, until a discussion on one of these
>> groups about false memories. Then I went back and looked what year that
>> happened in and realized it was in early 1986. The only problem was, the
>> class I “clearly” remember finding out about it in
>> happened during the Summer Session of 1984! Rather, I believe it was in a
>> different math class that I heard about it in, which is probably why I
>> conflated the memories.
>
> What you said is perfectly accurate, but I need to point out that
> nobody has produced a primary source for "Bush not knowing where he
> was."
>

True. I think it's what they call a meme.

> Until they do, this goes in the "factoid" file.
>

Along with the SBT!

> BTW, not know here you were when it *happened* is not the same as not
> knowing where you were when you *heard about it.*
>
> But it remains in the factoid file.
>

But it's funny.

> .John
> -----------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>


BT George

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Dec 10, 2018, 11:19:47 AM12/10/18
to
My comments were not intended to imply I accepted the story about
Bush’s lack of memory. Just making the point even that is not
relevant. But unless one begs the question that he was there in Dealey
Plaza, the statement (if it indeed was a statement) would almost surely
mean when he *heard* about it. Most people’s memory of
“big events” is exactly that since they were not present
and doing something else when it occurred.

19e...@mail.com

unread,
Dec 10, 2018, 8:53:51 PM12/10/18
to
On Monday, October 21, 2013 at 12:49:55 AM UTC-4, John McAdams wrote:
> It's become a standard factoid that George H.W. Bush "could not
> remember where he was when he heard that John Kennedy had been shot."
>
> Russ Baker said this at the Thursday night panel at WechtFest.
>
> Afterward, I asked him about a source.
>
> He said he thought it was a message he had gotten from somebody who
> saw Bush say that on a foreign network (see seemed to think Japanese).
>
> I asked if he had the message.
>
> He said he had been asked for it before, and could not find the
> message.
>
> So it seems it was only hearsay, and he can't document even the
> hearsay.
>
> This needs to go in the "silly factoid" file.
>
> Indeed, how stupid is this as evidence of some sinister activity by
> Bush? Had he been involved in any sinister activity, he doubtless
> would have a cover story, and have it down pat.
>
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

It should be embarrassing for Baker if he can't cite a source, but that is
just his stated motivation for his research, not the research itself. His
critics should be embarrassed for attacking his motives without addressing
his research.

Mark

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Dec 10, 2018, 8:56:10 PM12/10/18
to
Hmm. You sure you don't "go around accusing people at random"? Emilio
Santana. You are a piece of work, Marsh.

Mark

Anthony Marsh

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Dec 12, 2018, 4:57:07 PM12/12/18
to
that is not random.
He was part of a hit team.

>


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