Have always felt badly for the limo driver
b garrett meadows
limo down when he involuntarily turned in the direction of the first shot.
As such and taking his eyes off the road, he unintentionally slowed the
car down. However, I think he showed great presence of mind when he
quickly recovered himself and raced to the injured parties to the nearest
hospital. I marvel that he knew how to get to Parkland so quickly.
Didn't the Secret Service agent who jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
he, too, involuntarily turned in the direction of the first shot, thus
also losing a second or two before regaining himself?
Could it be that the Secret Service had gone complacent and less than
attentive to protecting the president due to the numerous ordinary
uneventful motorcades they had be part of both overseas and in the U.S.?
Please don't savage me for me for ostensibly trying to defend the Secret
Service's laxity in its "protection" of the president in Dallas. I'm just
asking if perhaps that routine bred inattentiveness thus leaving JFK wide
open--either intentionally or unintentionally-- to the machinations of
others.
Still, I have always felt badly for the limo driver. There was some guy
named William Cooper who said that the limo driver actually shot the
president! If the limo driver knew this accusation against him, he had to
have felt simply awful to be accused of such a deed.
Like I stated in the second to last paragraph, I'm only inquiring and
haven't the expertise and/or knowledge to intelligently argue one way or
the other. I just hate seeing people unduly vilified, especially if they
aren't alive to defend themselves.
Thank you for reading this posting.
WhiskyJoe
You are correct. It appears the limousine
slowed just because his foot was off the
accelerator. It does not appear he used
the brake, or at least not very much.
With the limousine going 14 MPH, if he
braked hard he would have stopped it
completely within 2 seconds. As it was,
8 seconds after the first shot, the
limousine was still coasting at 9 MPH.
If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
is apparent that people did not realize
that any shots were being fired until
the fatal head shot at Z312. Even Charles
Brehm, a veteran of D-Day and other battles
with the U. S. Rangers is seen in the Zapruder
film clapping as he disappears from the film
in the Z290's.
People speak of rifles as being ear shattering
but that is an exaggeration. It appears that
with the crowd noise and the escorting
motorcycles the sound of the rifle was not
that alarming.
Everyone imagines what they would do if
they were the driver but in sudden emergencies
it is common for people to react with disbelief
and to wonder if this is really happening.
Also, Greer said he was looking at the
overpass ahead and saw many people on it
and was wondering why they were there
because the Secret Service instructed the
Dallas police to have no one on any
overpasses, not even policemen. This was
a detail that the Dallas police messed up
on. So he was wondering if there might be
danger up ahead and I think that may have
made him reluctant to surge ahead, toward
possible danger, when the first shot occurred.
Of course, that was a mistake. The best
defense is speed. Speed will make the target
harder to hit, unless the shooter is firing
directly down the line of travel and at
least give the shooter less time to get
a hit.
What was needed was a driver who would take
off and accelerate as fast as he can at the
sound of the first shot. If that had
happened JFK may not have been wounded.
However, if Greer was that type of driver,
he would not have been driving that day.
That type of driver would have taken off
his duty as a driver the first time an
escorting motorcycle backfires in a
previous motorcade. And motorcycle
backfires were quite common. Jackie
mentioned hearing them throughout that
motorcade and she thought the first
shot may have been a backfire.
Robert Harris
<21798010-d4d1-47a6...@o31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
b garrett meadows <bgarret...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have always felt JFK's limo driver got a bum-wrap because he slowed the
> limo down when he involuntarily turned in the direction of the first shot.
> As such and taking his eyes off the road, he unintentionally slowed the
> car down. However, I think he showed great presence of mind when he
> quickly recovered himself and raced to the injured parties to the nearest
> hospital. I marvel that he knew how to get to Parkland so quickly.
You are absolutely correct that Bill Greer got a very bum wrap about
that. Dr. Luis Alvarez determined that the reason Greer panicked and
slowed the limo was that he was startled by a loud noise.
I made a video about that some time ago that you might want to look at.
It's pretty obvious that the noise was a rifle shot. And because it was
just 1.5 seconds prior to the fatal, head explosion, Oswald could not
have fired both of them.
http://www.jfkhistory.com/Nellie2/Nellie2.mov
>
> Didn't the Secret Service agent who jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
> he, too, involuntarily turned in the direction of the first shot, thus
> also losing a second or two before regaining himself?
Clint Hill didn't notice any of the early shots, and in fact, didn't
react until immediately following the same shot that startled the
driver.
>
> Could it be that the Secret Service had gone complacent and less than
> attentive to protecting the president due to the numerous ordinary
> uneventful motorcades they had be part of both overseas and in the U.S.?
The early shots were fired from a smaller and less powerful weapon than
Oswald's, which is why some witnesses didn't hear them at all, and
almost no-one heard more than one of them.
In a nutshell, the Secret Service didn't react to the early shots
because they did really sound like gunshots. After frame 285 when the
first rifle shot was fired, they leaped immediately into action.
>
> Please don't savage me for me for ostensibly trying to defend the Secret
> Service's laxity in its "protection" of the president in Dallas. I'm just
> asking if perhaps that routine bred inattentiveness thus leaving JFK wide
> open--either intentionally or unintentionally-- to the machinations of
> others.
>
> Still, I have always felt badly for the limo driver. There was some guy
> named William Cooper who said that the limo driver actually shot the
> president! If the limo driver knew this accusation against him, he had to
> have felt simply awful to be accused of such a deed.
Cooper was a scam artist. He deliberately used a badly blurred version
of the Zapruder film to make his "theory" look plausible.
Robert Harris
Thalia
wrote:
Unfortunately JFK was surrounded by incompetents that day. Just like
on 9/11, not many people bothered to do their job as they had been
trained. Just like 9/11 no-one got into trouble either (ie lost their
jobs)
Anthony Marsh
>
> You are correct. It appears the limousine
> slowed just because his foot was off the
> accelerator. It does not appear he used
> the brake, or at least not very much.
> With the limousine going 14 MPH, if he
> braked hard he would have stopped it
> completely within 2 seconds. As it was,
> 8 seconds after the first shot, the
> limousine was still coasting at 9 MPH.
>
The significant slowdown occurred just before the head shot.
Alvarez studied the Zapruder film and found that the limo slowed down
from about 12 MPH to about 8 MPH at about Z-300.
> If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
> is apparent that people did not realize
> that any shots were being fired until
> the fatal head shot at Z312. Even Charles
Not quite. They knew something was wrong and Connally knew he was hit badly.
> Brehm, a veteran of D-Day and other battles
> with the U. S. Rangers is seen in the Zapruder
> film clapping as he disappears from the film
> in the Z290's.
>
So what? Others are seen reacting.
> People speak of rifles as being ear shattering
> but that is an exaggeration. It appears that
> with the crowd noise and the escorting
> motorcycles the sound of the rifle was not
> that alarming.
>
Maybe the first shot was slightly different and most people did not
notice it or thought it was a motorcycle backfiring.
> Everyone imagines what they would do if
> they were the driver but in sudden emergencies
> it is common for people to react with disbelief
> and to wonder if this is really happening.
>
It's not a matter of EVERYONE. A Secret Service agent is highly trained
to NOT react as EVERYONE would.
> Also, Greer said he was looking at the
> overpass ahead and saw many people on it
> and was wondering why they were there
> because the Secret Service instructed the
> Dallas police to have no one on any
> overpasses, not even policemen. This was
That may have distracted him.
Anthony Marsh
> I have always felt JFK's limo driver got a bum-wrap because he slowed the
> limo down when he involuntarily turned in the direction of the first shot.
> As such and taking his eyes off the road, he unintentionally slowed the
> car down. However, I think he showed great presence of mind when he
> quickly recovered himself and raced to the injured parties to the nearest
> hospital. I marvel that he knew how to get to Parkland so quickly.
>
You are partially correct, but Greer did not slow down until just before
the head shot. At around Z-300.
> Didn't the Secret Service agent who jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
> he, too, involuntarily turned in the direction of the first shot, thus
> also losing a second or two before regaining himself?
>
No. But he did blame himself for not reacting more quickly. But even if
he had reached the limo 2 seconds earlier he could NOT have blocked the
shot from the grassy knoll.
> Could it be that the Secret Service had gone complacent and less than
> attentive to protecting the president due to the numerous ordinary
> uneventful motorcades they had be part of both overseas and in the U.S.?
>
Could it be that the Secret Service was keeping its older agents serving
in Presidential protection too long?
> Please don't savage me for me for ostensibly trying to defend the Secret
> Service's laxity in its "protection" of the president in Dallas. I'm just
> asking if perhaps that routine bred inattentiveness thus leaving JFK wide
> open--either intentionally or unintentionally-- to the machinations of
> others.
>
JFK said it himself that very morning, that if some nut wanted to shoot
him from an office building there was NOTHING the Secret Service could do
about it.
cdddraftsman
>
> - Show quoted text -
AAMOF they were given awards for bravery under fire at the White House
afterwards . You're suggesting mere mortals are like Superman ? Faster
than a speeding bullet ?
tl
Sandy McCroskey
wrote:
"bum-wrap"? A diaper?
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
/sandy
markusp
> If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
> is apparent that people did not realize
> that any shots were being fired until
> the fatal head shot at Z312. Even Charles
> Brehm, a veteran of D-Day and other battles
> with the U. S. Rangers is seen in the Zapruder
> film clapping as he disappears from the film
> in the Z290's.
Was it Kellerman that testified that he thought he heard JFK say, "My god,
I am hit"? Also, Connally claimed that he recognized rifle fire
immediately, and actually said, "My god, they're going to kill us all."
Certainly you're at least partly correct in that visually, some people
were obviously unaware of any gunfire. JFK himself was aware, if he indeed
said that, and Connally appeared to be aware of shots prior to Z312.
Respectfully,
~Mark
WhiskyJoe
> The significant slowdown occurred just
> before the head shot. Alvarez studied
> the Zapruder film and found that the
> limo slowed down from about 12 MPH to
> about 8 MPH at about Z-300.
Looking at Don Roberdeau's map at:
http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img160/7642/dpjpg110508mb6.gif
It is apparent that the limousine starts
slowing around Z170 from 14 MPH.
The locations he shows for JFK on the
map seem pretty accurate when I check
them with the Zapruder film. Anthony Marsh
is the only one I ever heard of who thought
Roberdeau's map was inaccurate.
>> If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
>> is apparent that people did not realize
>> that any shots were being fired until
>> the fatal head shot at Z312. Even Charles
> Not quite. They knew something was wrong
> and Connally knew he was hit badly.
I meant to say that hardly anyone in the
crowd reacts before Z312 to the sound of
shots. Yes, JFK and Connally knew they
were hit and the others in the limousine
came to realize that and at least three
of the standing Secret Service Agents
were obviously reacting to a shot from
behind by Z255 as seen in the Altgens
photograph.
WhiskyJoe
>> Didn't the Secret Service agent who
>> jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
>> he, too, involuntarily turned in the
>> direction of the first shot, thus
>> also losing a second or two before
>> regaining himself?
> Clint Hill didn't notice any of the early
> shots, and in fact, didn't react until
> immediately following the same shot that
> startled the driver.
Well, it looks some people heard an earlier shot.
Check out the Altgens photograph, taken at Z255,
at:
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Bedrock_Evidence_-_part_3
You can get an enlarged view of that photograph.
It shows three of the four standing agents
looking sharply to their right and behind
them. Even Hill may be starting a turn to
the right.
It is ironic that to you that a weak camera
jiggle at Z291 and so many different reactions
indicates a shot at Z285 but a stronger camera
jiggle at Z227 and three of the four Secret
Service Agents looking behind and to the right
is not an indication of a audible shot at Z222.
pjfk
wrote:
By your logic the SS got a 'bum rap' for losing the President --
nevermind that it was their job to protect him.
Greer was obviously not the right man for the job. His reflexes were
slow and he became confused. However, he was not the only SS man in
the car. Kellerman did not react quickly either.
To make the problem more complex, the open configuration of the
limousine was unsafe, and it was difficult because of the 41" stretch
for the SS to assess what was happening in the rear of the limo.
Pamela McElwain-Brown
The JFK Presidential Limousine SS-100-X and the Crime of the Century
www.in-broad-daylight.com
Anthony Marsh
>
>>> Didn't the Secret Service agent who
>>> jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
>>> he, too, involuntarily turned in the
>>> direction of the first shot, thus
>>> also losing a second or two before
>>> regaining himself?
>
>> Clint Hill didn't notice any of the early
>> shots, and in fact, didn't react until
>> immediately following the same shot that
>> startled the driver.
>
> Well, it looks some people heard an earlier shot.
> Check out the Altgens photograph, taken at Z255,
> at:
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Bedrock_Evidence_-_part_3
>
> You can get an enlarged view of that photograph.
>
> It shows three of the four standing agents
> looking sharply to their right and behind
> them. Even Hill may be starting a turn to
> the right.
>
Indeed Clint Hill had been looking at the crowd to his left, heard a
terrible noise and started turning towards its source when he SAW the
President being hit. Another indication of a first shot miss.
> It is ironic that to you that a weak camera
> jiggle at Z291 and so many different reactions
> indicates a shot at Z285 but a stronger camera
> jiggle at Z227 and three of the four Secret
> Service Agents looking behind and to the right
> is not an indication of a audible shot at Z222.
>
Anything facts which interfere with his wacky theory are thrown out.
Anthony Marsh
>
>> The significant slowdown occurred just
>> before the head shot. Alvarez studied
>> the Zapruder film and found that the
>> limo slowed down from about 12 MPH to
>> about 8 MPH at about Z-300.
>
> Looking at Don Roberdeau's map at:
>
> http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img160/7642/dpjpg110508mb6.gif
>
> It is apparent that the limousine starts
> slowing around Z170 from 14 MPH.
> The locations he shows for JFK on the
> map seem pretty accurate when I check
> them with the Zapruder film. Anthony Marsh
> is the only one I ever heard of who thought
> Roberdeau's map was inaccurate.
>
I did not say that. Of course the base map is correct because he stole it
from me and I have the most accurate map. I just question some of his
notations and theories he writes on the map.
It would be as if you had the most accurate map and then put an X on it
and wrote, "This is where Jack Ruby was standing within minutes after the
shooting."
Robert Harris
<adbe6af2-03dd-460e...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
WhiskyJoe <jr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> Didn't the Secret Service agent who
> >> jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
> >> he, too, involuntarily turned in the
> >> direction of the first shot, thus
> >> also losing a second or two before
> >> regaining himself?
>
> > Clint Hill didn't notice any of the early
> > shots, and in fact, didn't react until
> > immediately following the same shot that
> > startled the driver.
>
> Well, it looks some people heard an earlier shot.
> Check out the Altgens photograph, taken at Z255,
> at:
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Bedrock_Evidence_-_part_3
Well of course they did. So did every person in the limo, although most
of them did not recognize it as a gunshot. Charles Brehm, Jean Hill,
Mary Moorman, Abraham Zapruder and a number of others did not hear it.
But NOBODY, inside or out of the limousine exhibited startle reactions
then, as they did following 285 and 312. And there is a world of
difference between a "what was that?" reaction and a startle reaction.
If Oswald had fired the early shots, based on measurements by the HSCA,
the limo passengers would have been subjected to a 130 decibel shock
wave and a muzzle blast around 120-125 decibels. They would have jumped
out of their skins.
Clint Hill would have jumped off the followup car. Greer would have
likely slammed on the brakes or hit the gas, or something.
And the limo passengers would have been ducking like they did following
the later shots.
Look at the Altgens photo and tell me those people heard that kind of
sound. Look at the Secret Service people. Why were they so "sluggish"?
The truth is, they weren't. But prior to 285, they heard NOTHING that
really sounded like a gunshot.
In fact, the large majority of witnesses that day who had an opinion on
the subject, only heard ONE of those early shots, and most didn't think
that one early sound sounded nearly as loud as the ones at the end.
>
> You can get an enlarged view of that photograph.
>
> It shows three of the four standing agents
> looking sharply to their right and behind
> them. Even Hill may be starting a turn to
> the right.
And why were they ONLY looking to the right?
If they had actually heard high powered rifle shots, they would have had
weapons out and at least some of them would have been on the ground.
Listen to what they said. Almost all of them who expressed an opinion
about it, said the early shots were MUCH different than the final ones.
This stuff is really easy. You just have to do a little bit of thinking.
Robert Harris
Robert Harris
<adbe6af2-03dd-460e...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
WhiskyJoe <jr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
And one other thing. Look at the wide version of the zfilm. Those agents
on the running board started to turn right, by 207. They only heard the
"noise" at 160 - not the one at 223.
Robert Harris
Robert Harris
<7f248f61-6745-4eed...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
WhiskyJoe <jr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> You are correct. It appears the limousine
> slowed just because his foot was off the
> accelerator. It does not appear he used
> the brake, or at least not very much.
> With the limousine going 14 MPH, if he
> braked hard he would have stopped it
> completely within 2 seconds. As it was,
> 8 seconds after the first shot, the
> limousine was still coasting at 9 MPH.
Alvarez calculated the speed and deceleration. The limo dropped from
12mph to 8, within about half a second, beginning 299-300.
>
> If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
> is apparent that people did not realize
> that any shots were being fired until
> the fatal head shot at Z312.
ROFLMAO!!
> Even Charles
> Brehm, a veteran of D-Day and other battles
> with the U. S. Rangers is seen in the Zapruder
> film clapping as he disappears from the film
> in the Z290's.
Brehm said JFK was "15-20 feet" from him when he heard the first of
three shots. I have him 18 feet from JFK at frame 285. What do you get?
>
> People speak of rifles as being ear shattering
> but that is an exaggeration.
The HSCA experts positioned microphones in DP, at varying distances from
the alleged SN and then measured the sound levels throughout the area.
The shock wave of the passing bullet generated a 130db level within ten
feet of the bullet's path. The muzzle blast generated 115 to 135db,
depending on the distance, with the minimum at approximately the
distance at 312.
The lowest of those numbers was five times louder than 90db, which is
the level at which permanent hearing damage can be inflicted.
The HSCA people could not understand how anyone could have mistaken
those sounds for backfires or firecrackers. Even after they brought in
motorcycles, the shots completely drowned out all background noises.
And the early shots would have been the loudest because they were
closest to the SN.
> It appears that
> with the crowd noise and the escorting
> motorcycles the sound of the rifle was not
> that alarming.
No, it doesn't appear that way at all. If it did, there would have been
no startle reactions following 285 and 312.
ALL shots prior to 285 were fired from the Daltex building, from a low
caliber, suppressed weapon. That's why 223 wasn't heard by practically
anyone and why 160 was only heard by some.
You do realize don't you, that CE399 was not the bullet that passed
through JFK and Connally?
>
> Everyone imagines what they would do if
> they were the driver but in sudden emergencies
> it is common for people to react with disbelief
> and to wonder if this is really happening.
>
> Also, Greer said he was looking at the
> overpass ahead and saw many people on it
> and was wondering why they were there
But he was very clear, that he was looking to the rear when he heard
what he thought, was the second shot.
> because the Secret Service instructed the
> Dallas police to have no one on any
> overpasses, not even policemen. This was
> a detail that the Dallas police messed up
> on. So he was wondering if there might be
> danger up ahead and I think that may have
> made him reluctant to surge ahead, toward
> possible danger, when the first shot occurred.
LOL!! So, did the people on the overpass cause him to feel the
"concussion" of that bullet's shockwave that he felt as he was turned to
the rear??
Look at the film. He turned to the rear, well after 223. And he was
looking to the rear at 285 - a fraction of a second before he began that
rapid turn to the front, and slowed the limo.
Your latest "theory" contradicts every relevant fact related to Greer's
actions then.
Other than that, it's just great:-)
> Of course, that was a mistake.
I guess you also think it's a "mistake" that Greer said the final shots
were nearly simultaneous, right?
Nothing personal whisky, but I think I will go with Alvarez and Greer,
over you.
Robert Harris
Anthony Marsh
> In article
> <adbe6af2-03dd-460e...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> WhiskyJoe<jr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>>> Didn't the Secret Service agent who
>>>> jumped on the rear of JFK's limo say
>>>> he, too, involuntarily turned in the
>>>> direction of the first shot, thus
>>>> also losing a second or two before
>>>> regaining himself?
>>
>>> Clint Hill didn't notice any of the early
>>> shots, and in fact, didn't react until
>>> immediately following the same shot that
>>> startled the driver.
>>
>> Well, it looks some people heard an earlier shot.
>> Check out the Altgens photograph, taken at Z255,
>> at:
>>
>> http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Bedrock_Evidence_-_part_3
>
>
> Well of course they did. So did every person in the limo, although most
> of them did not recognize it as a gunshot. Charles Brehm, Jean Hill,
> Mary Moorman, Abraham Zapruder and a number of others did not hear it.
>
> But NOBODY, inside or out of the limousine exhibited startle reactions
> then, as they did following 285 and 312. And there is a world of
> difference between a "what was that?" reaction and a startle reaction.
>
There is also a world of difference between HEARING a shot and reacting to
BEING shot. Connally did not HEAR the shot which hit him, but he is
clearly reacting to FEELING a shot by the Altgens photo. He HEARD a shot
just before he was hit. So, all you need to do is pick a time when you
think he was already wounded before the Altgens photo (he says Z-230) and
then work backwards however many seconds you think it takes for the rifle
to shoot twice and you'll have the time for the first shot. Or perhaps the
second shot if there was an earlier miss which people did not hear
clearly.
> If Oswald had fired the early shots, based on measurements by the HSCA,
> the limo passengers would have been subjected to a 130 decibel shock
> wave and a muzzle blast around 120-125 decibels. They would have jumped
> out of their skins.
>
Silly.
> Clint Hill would have jumped off the followup car. Greer would have
> likely slammed on the brakes or hit the gas, or something.
>
Silly.
You can't say what people WOULD have done.
> And the limo passengers would have been ducking like they did following
> the later shots.
>
JFK ducked because he had been shot, not because he HEARD a shot. Same
with Connally.
> Look at the Altgens photo and tell me those people heard that kind of
> sound. Look at the Secret Service people. Why were they so "sluggish"?
> The truth is, they weren't. But prior to 285, they heard NOTHING that
> really sounded like a gunshot.
>
They testified that they HEARD a shot and reacted. Are they ALL lying?
> In fact, the large majority of witnesses that day who had an opinion on
> the subject, only heard ONE of those early shots, and most didn't think
> that one early sound sounded nearly as loud as the ones at the end.
>
Yeah, and what conclusion do you draw from that?
>
>>
>> You can get an enlarged view of that photograph.
>>
>> It shows three of the four standing agents
>> looking sharply to their right and behind
>> them. Even Hill may be starting a turn to
>> the right.
>
> And why were they ONLY looking to the right?
>
> If they had actually heard high powered rifle shots, they would have had
> weapons out and at least some of them would have been on the ground.
Silly.
Your whole life is made of "would" and never "did."
> Listen to what they said. Almost all of them who expressed an opinion
> about it, said the early shots were MUCH different than the final ones.
>
> This stuff is really easy. You just have to do a little bit of thinking.
>
>
Wishful thinking.
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert Harris
Robert Harris
<34a5c657-0802-48fc...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
markusp <marki...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 22, 8:59�pm, WhiskyJoe <jr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
> > is apparent that people did not realize
> > that any shots were being fired until
> > the fatal head shot at Z312. Even Charles
> > Brehm, a veteran of D-Day and other battles
> > with the U. S. Rangers is seen in the Zapruder
> > film clapping as he disappears from the film
> > in the Z290's.
>
> Was it Kellerman that testified that he thought he heard JFK say, "My god,
> I am hit"?
Yes. That was probably because JFK had been stung by pieces of debris
from the shot at app. 160.
> Also, Connally claimed that he recognized rifle fire
> immediately, and actually said, "My god, they're going to kill us all."
Like most other witnesses, Connally only heard one early shot. He
testified that he never heard the next one, which hit him. He only felt
it.
> Certainly you're at least partly correct in that visually, some people
> were obviously unaware of any gunfire. JFK himself was aware, if he indeed
> said that, and Connally appeared to be aware of shots prior to Z312.
> Respectfully,
Yes, some people heard the shot at 160. But no-one believed (at that
time) that it was a gunshot.
Robert Harris
>
> ~Mark
Anthony Marsh
> In article
> <34a5c657-0802-48fc...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
> markusp<marki...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 22, 8:59 pm, WhiskyJoe<jr...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> If one looks at the Zapruder film, it
>>> is apparent that people did not realize
>>> that any shots were being fired until
>>> the fatal head shot at Z312. Even Charles
>>> Brehm, a veteran of D-Day and other battles
>>> with the U. S. Rangers is seen in the Zapruder
>>> film clapping as he disappears from the film
>>> in the Z290's.
>>
>> Was it Kellerman that testified that he thought he heard JFK say, "My god,
>> I am hit"?
>
> Yes. That was probably because JFK had been stung by pieces of debris
> from the shot at app. 160.
>
That is a false premise. JFK said nothing.