Documentation regarding Judyth Vary Baker completing summer
pjfk
contain the following information from newspaper sources, most likely
the St. Petersburg Times.
QUOTE ON
P. 22
From page 22:
"Judy Vary to Continue [MISSING WORD "Research"]
A summer spent at the Roswell Park Memorial Cancer Research
Center in Buffalo, N.Y. has brought 18 year old Judy Vary closer to
the one goal towards which she has dedicated her life - finding a cure
to cancer.
Judy arrived home late last night (only six buses late!) to
spend a few days with her parents, Mr. and Mrs. D.W. Vary and sister,
Linda, at their Gulf to Bay Estates home. She leaves the latter part
of the week for St. Francis College in Fort Wayne, Ind. Where she will
enter the freshman class under a $1,300 scholarship from the National
Science Foundation.
QUOTE OFF
Per this contemporaneous account, Judyth arrived back home with only a
few days between the summer session at RP and her start at St.
Francis.
This article also verifies her being awarded a scholarship from the
NSF, not a small sum either back in the 60's.
In addition, we have another newspaper account:
QUOTE ON
FIRST FROM FLORIDA
Judy was the first person from Florida to be chosen to spend the
summer in research at the Center. It was through the efforts of Mrs.
C.K. Watkins long-time worker in the American Cancer Society, and Col.
Phillip Doyle, MHS physics teacher, that Judy was among the 2,000
applicants for the summer work. Only 62 were chosen, from all parts of
the world.
Judy was among the five chosen most outstanding among the
scientists attending the summer session and her report to the National
Foundation was considered the best. Each person chosen for the summer
study must be recommended by a doctor at the Center. Judy was
selected by Dr. Howard Moore, director of the center and considered
one of the..." TEXT CUT OFF
QUOTE OFF
Here we have another contemporaneous account corroborating that her
report was indeed presented to the NF.
Pamela
barbjfk
I got access to a computer I can use to post through google. :-)
You make this sound like I've never mentioned or seen these articles,
Pamela. I referenced them and expressed some thoughts in them in the
posts I used to open the Roswell thread. ;-)
One of them quotes Judyth's mother. One, that you quoted above
mentions she got home "six buses late" ... do you really think that
info came from Roswell Park!?
These articles are "contemporaneous" on the part of the reporter
jotting down/typing the info .... not verification or documentation of
anything, other than what the reporter was told. And most likely told
by Judyth's mother.
And, btw, since my time to do this is short ... I posted *information* I
received from a person at Roswell Park in a position to have access to or
to get the information. And I have clearly posted that several times. Yet
I have heard you have been on a rant saying I am making "accusations" and
that it is "gossip" and whatever else.
I posted the information I received ...and quite accurately. I am not the
one making unfounded accusations and gossiping.
Barb :-)
JLeyd...@aol.com
> Since Barb has Judyth's book, she has access to the footnotes, which
> contain the following information from newspaper sources, most likely
> the St. Petersburg Times.
Here we go again. This obsessive focus by Team Judyth and its ladies
auxiliary on Judith's high school "cancer research" is a smoke screen to
obscure the fact that she never earned a university degree in the hard
sciences. Never. What we really need here is some documentation that
proves this unqualified woman actually worked on secret, top- level
scientific program to develop a bioweapon to kill Castro. We've had about
20 different stories on that bogus operation and I thought I had heard
them all until Shackelford surprised me the other day with one more:
Shackelford 8/11/06: "The original summer work would have paid. When she
became involved in the Ferrie project, they had to provide another source
of income, and that's where Reily came in. She was promptly hired as a
secretary, despite a complete lack of secretarial skills."
IOW, she wasn't paid for her work on the secret project. Get that -- not
paid. That's a violation of Federal law if the USG was involved. And the
problem with the Reily job is she had to stay there all day because she
told us her primary function was to clock out Oswald at the end of the
day. (He was out doing secret agent work.) Then the two of them were off
doing the town on double dates with that stylish couple David & Anna Lewis
so I never did figure out when she worked at the secret lab.
But I know if she really had a legitimate internship originally with Dr.
Sherman of the Ochsner group -- and she told us she did -- there has to be
some paperwork Has to be. Failure to produce same proves the whole thing
was a delusion. Team Judyth, of the remnants of same, needs to get on the
ball.
JGL
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 18, 9:50 pm, pjfk <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since Barb has Judyth's book, she has access to the footnotes, which
>> contain the following information from newspaper sources, most likely
>> the St. Petersburg Times.
>
> Here we go again. This obsessive focus by Team Judyth and its ladies
> auxiliary on Judith's high school "cancer research" is a smoke screen to
> obscure the fact that she never earned a university degree in the hard
> sciences. Never. What we really need here is some documentation that
> proves this unqualified woman actually worked on secret, top- level
> scientific program to develop a bioweapon to kill Castro. We've had about
There is no such documentation so stop asking for it. All we have is her
story on that.
But your ridicule overlooks some basic facts. Unqualified people can and
do work on Top Secret CIA scientific programs. The CIA did try dozens of
bizarre ideas to kill Castro. So some elements of her story are possible.
> 20 different stories on that bogus operation and I thought I had heard
> them all until Shackelford surprised me the other day with one more:
>
> Shackelford 8/11/06: "The original summer work would have paid. When she
> became involved in the Ferrie project, they had to provide another source
> of income, and that's where Reily came in. She was promptly hired as a
> secretary, despite a complete lack of secretarial skills."
>
> IOW, she wasn't paid for her work on the secret project. Get that -- not
> paid. That's a violation of Federal law if the USG was involved. And the
> problem with the Reily job is she had to stay there all day because she
> told us her primary function was to clock out Oswald at the end of the
> day. (He was out doing secret agent work.) Then the two of them were off
> doing the town on double dates with that stylish couple David & Anna Lewis
> so I never did figure out when she worked at the secret lab.
>
> But I know if she really had a legitimate internship originally with Dr.
> Sherman of the Ochsner group -- and she told us she did -- there has to be
> some paperwork Has to be. Failure to produce same proves the whole thing
> was a delusion. Team Judyth, of the remnants of same, needs to get on the
> ball.
>
Richard Helms ordered all the paperwork destroyed.
> JGL
Martin Shackelford
originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
be paperwork relating to an internship.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:685581be-c173-4e32...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
pjfk
> On Mar 18, 9:50 pm, pjfk <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Since Barb has Judyth's book, she has access to the footnotes, which
> > contain the following information from newspaper sources, most likely
> > the St. Petersburg Times.
>
> Here we go again. This obsessive focus by Team Judyth and its ladies
> auxiliary on Judith's high school "cancer research" is a smoke screen to
> obscure the fact that she never earned a university degree in the hard
> sciences. Never.
Barb is the one with the obsessive focus on Judyth and Roswell Park,
not I. I am simply providing documentation to the group that Barb has
at her fingertips and yet chooses to dismiss. My term "footnotes" was
incorrect -- these are documents inserted into the text of the book.
They provide a flow of information regarding the fact that Judyth
arrived home with just a few days to spend with her family before
going on to St. Francis on a NHF scholarship granted to her based on
her outstanding performance at RP.
James K. Olmstead
She went to New Orleans
> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
When did she make up this twist? She mentions direct association with Ochsner
while working on this project to kill Castro. If he was pissed off at her and would
not hire her in some simple internship cover story, why would he allow her to be
part of his project to kill Castro? IT MAKES NO SENSE not to allow her to work
in a project that was perfect cover for her, that Ochsner was known to be involved
in to go flip burgers or work at Reily's.
To say he was "pissed off" at her really screws up her story even more. Pissed on
flunky's such as Baker would be high risk in any covert operation. If Oswald pulled
strings to get her assigned to work on this project....she's placing Oswald in a very
high position of power over the people involved......which is not the case she presents
at all in her story.
jko
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:NvqEj.20431$Ch6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
pjfk
In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
This gives a clear indication that she was still in Buffalo at least until
this date. This would add to the newspaper information which stated she
was back with her family for only a few days prior to leaving for college
at St. Francis.
JLeyd...@aol.com
> Richard Helms ordered all the paperwork destroyed.
>
Of course. No surprise. You've told us (sans documentation) that Helms
was behind the JFK assassination. Fortunately (for you), he's dead now
and can't sue you or, worse, order his henchmen to take you out. You
really don't have much to contribute, do you, Tony? You just like to
appear on every thread.
JGL
> > JGL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
steve
wrote:
> Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
> originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
> She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
> be paperwork relating to an internship.
>
You cant even document that Judyth met Sherman or Ochsner, EVER, even
once.
> Martin
>
> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
barbjfk
> On Mar 19, 10:12 pm, JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > On Mar 18, 9:50 pm, pjfk <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Since Barb has Judyth's book, she has access to the footnotes, which
> > > contain the following information from newspaper sources, most likely
> > > the St. Petersburg Times.
>
> > Here we go again. This obsessive focus by Team Judyth and its ladies
> > auxiliary on Judith's high school "cancer research" is a smoke screen to
> > obscure the fact that she never earned a university degree in the hard
> > sciences. Never.
>
> Barb is the one with the obsessive focus on Judyth and Roswell Park,
> not I.
Yeah, your e-mails, whining about not getting replies, followed by phone
calls getting transferred all over Roswell Park are testament to that.<g>
Gearing up already to join Martin in a new minimust stance on Roswell Park
...like it is not a major problem for her story? What both Pamela and
Martin trot out as proof of her qualifications for the Castro product,
proof that she was already having work sent to Ochsner for review that
would carry over into college under the direction of Roswell Park is cut
off at the knees ..so now it will mean nothing an be no big deal.
Yeah, right.
> I am simply providing documentation to the group that Barb has
> at her fingertips and yet chooses to dismiss. My term "footnotes" was
> incorrect -- these are documents inserted into the text of the book.
Wondered when you would notice. :-)
> They provide a flow of information regarding the fact that Judyth
> arrived home with just a few days to spend with her family before
> going on to St. Francis on a NHF scholarship granted to her based on
> her outstanding performance at RP.
Pamela chooses to ignore my reply to her on this where I point out I
posted about these very articles in my post opening the Roswell thread. I
guess she still clings to the fantasy that it was information given by
Roswell to some hometown reporter ...including a quote from Judyth's
mother and noting that Judyth arrived home 6 buses late.
If Pamela wants to do some real research, instead of clinging to a
newspaper article that conflicts with what Roswell Park has to say about
Judyth's participation in the program that summer, she might want to look
into the organizations that did provide funding to students in the program
...and which did not. And also into whether or not any scholarships were
granted to any students through, or as a result of, their participation on
that program....oh, and also into just what sort of papers student in the
summer of 1961 were required to present ...and to whom. :-)
Will Pamela post what she finds on those subjects should she choose to
undertake them? Probably not. She'll just quit yapping about it.
Barb :-)
barbjfk
Being in Buffalo does not document still being in the program at RP.
And I'm pretty sure she said YWCA ...or are you trying to float a
nebulous rumour? :-)
Martin Shackelford
I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
She has always said that:
1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
2) She arrived two weeks earlier than expected, needed money for
expenses, so got the temporary job at the burger place. That job
had nothing to do with her original plans or subsequent activities.
3) She ran into Oswald and was introduced to Ferrie. She talked
with Ochsner. She and Oswald were provided with cover jobs at
Reily.
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e2...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Martin Shackelford
something in writing that he didn't think she should have
written down--and that cost her the position in the Fall.
Things naturally don't make sense when you get the sequence
of events backwards.
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e2...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>
>
James K. Olmstead
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:eBIEj.21955$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
Funny....if there is nothing new here you forgot to mention below why she
"pissed off" Ochsner? Seems you want to avoid your own statement.
jko
> She has always said that:
> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
Did this piss off Ochsner?
> 2) She arrived two weeks earlier than expected, needed money for
> expenses, so got the temporary job at the burger place. That job
> had nothing to do with her original plans or subsequent activities.
Did this piss off Ochsner?
> 3) She ran into Oswald and was introduced to Ferrie. She talked
> with Ochsner. She and Oswald were provided with cover jobs at
> Reily.
>
Did this piss off Ochsner?
There has to be some twist here.... something that "pissed off" Ochsner
that made him drop Judyth as part of his "request".
jko
James K. Olmstead
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:TFIEj.21956$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> Ochsner became pissed off with her LATER, after she put
> something in writing that he didn't think she should have
> written down--and that cost her the position in the Fall.
> Things naturally don't make sense when you get the sequence
> of events backwards.
>
It's the sequence you indicate.....she arrived and before she could even
start working he was pissed off and she had to get burger flipping Reily
job cover.
I don't have the events backwards....I'm going by what YOU SAY.
jko
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 19, 11:28�pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Richard Helms ordered all the paperwork destroyed.
>>
>
> Of course. No surprise. You've told us (sans documentation) that Helms
> was behind the JFK assassination. Fortunately (for you), he's dead now
I said that before he died. And someone asked him that question to his face.
Anthony Marsh
> In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
> YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>
Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
Good Lord, you're amazing, Shackelford. When the old truth becomes
inconvenient, you simply make up a new truth. But the question is why are
you doing this? The game is over, the players have left the field, the
groundskeepers have pulled up the bases but you're still out there
shagging phantom fly balls. Don't you get? Judyth has kicked you to the
curb. You admitted she treated you like a "lackey." And she accused you
of backstabbing on her blog. It's too late to salvage your credibility.
Find a new hobby.
JGL
> Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
> originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
> She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
> be paperwork relating to an internship.
>
> Martin
>
> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
paul seaton
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Y4qdnRdUs9eNt3na...@comcast.com...
> pjfk wrote:
>> In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
>> YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>>
>
> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>
I just checked & the claim that is in dispute is apparently not a claim
that she stayed at the YMCA.
pjfk
> pjfk wrote:
> > In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
> > YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>
> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>
Of course, and only just now stuck it into my copy of the book so that
it could be used in her defense. :-0
>
>
> > This gives a clear indication that she was still in Buffalo at least until
> > this date. This would add to the newspaper information which stated she
> > was back with her family for only a few days prior to leaving for college
> > at St. Francis.- Hide quoted text -
Martin Shackelford
to detail it on the newsgroup. Also, when I've already dealt with
an issue, I don't feel the need to keep re-posting the same information
over and over.
In another post, I mentioned that Ochsner was pissed off when she
committed information about the project to writing. He wanted
nothing in writing.
Clear?
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e3...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Martin Shackelford
This is your own nonsense, pure and simple.
"burger flipping Reily job cover"? Could you get sillier?
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e3e47e$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
barbjfk
> pjfk wrote:
> > In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
> > YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>
> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
She didn't fabricate staying at the Y.
She fabricated when she said she was "isolated" from the other
students and made to stay at the Y instead of in dorms with the
others.
>
>
>
> > This gives a clear indication that she was still in Buffalo at least until
> > this date. This would add to the newspaper information which stated she
> > was back with her family for only a few days prior to leaving for college
barbjfk
> On Mar 21, 9:19 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > pjfk wrote:
> > > In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
> > > YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>
> > Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>
> Of course, and only just now stuck it into my copy of the book so that
> it could be used in her defense. :-0
Your leaping onto Anthony's nonsensical statements do provide some
comic relief, but, really Pamela......
(Pssst...Judyth having stayed at the Y is not in dispute)
>
>
>
>
>
> > > This gives a clear indication that she was still in Buffalo at least until
> > > this date. This would add to the newspaper information which stated she
> > > was back with her family for only a few days prior to leaving for college
> > > at St. Francis.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
pjfk
program. It goes for 10 weeks, from June 2 - Aug 7.
http://www.roswellpark.org/Education/Summer_Programs/SummerResearchExperiencesforUndergraduates_REU
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> She ran into Oswald and was introduced to Ferrie. She talked
> with Ochsner. She and Oswald were provided with cover jobs at
> Reily.
>
> Martin
But they both got fired from Reily, Oswald after two months and Judyth
after three. You're not supposed to get fired from cover jobs.
That's why they call them cover jobs. Is there nothing in this story
that makes any sense? Nothing that would have inspired you to do a
little research instead of foisting this bogus storiy on us? Guess
not.
JGL
> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
> She has always said that:
> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
> 2) She arrived two weeks earlier than expected, needed money for
> expenses, so got the temporary job at the burger place. That job
> had nothing to do with her original plans or subsequent activities.
>
> "James K. Olmstead" <jolmst...@neo.rr.com> wrote in messagenews:47e2...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> > "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >news:NvqEj.20431$Ch6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> >> Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
> >> originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
> >> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
> >> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
> >> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
> >> She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
> >> be paperwork relating to an internship.
>
> >> Martin
>
> >> <JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>> JGL- Hide quoted text -
JLeyd...@aol.com
> I said that before he [Rich. Helms] died. And someone asked him that question to his face [did he kill jfk].
That's a bit sketchy even for you, Tony. Who was the "someone" and
what did Helms say? Don't suppose you have any documentatiokn, huh.
James K. Olmstead
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:SW1Fj.65970$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> The episode is detailed in her book, James. I didn't feel the need
> to detail it on the newsgroup. Also, when I've already dealt with
> an issue, I don't feel the need to keep re-posting the same information
> over and over.
> In another post, I mentioned that Ochsner was pissed off when she
> committed information about the project to writing. He wanted
> nothing in writing.
> Clear?
>
No because you indicated that she pissed him off before she got involved
in any project, therefore she was never employed by Ochsner. If you
combined elements from different timeframes of her story.......how do you
expect anyone to keep track of the BS.
James K. Olmstead
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:4Y1Fj.65971$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> Stop making things up, James.
> This is your own nonsense, pure and simple.
> "burger flipping Reily job cover"? Could you get sillier?
>
> Martin
Sure if I went into detail her whole story is silly.........the facts are
as presented....she flipped burgers and Reily was a cover job. That's the
basic's of her story. Why rehash details gone over in past
discussions........she was invited to New Orleans by Oschner but pissed
him off so she had to get a job flipping burgers. Oswald comes along and
puts Oschner in his place after meeting Baker at the post office, falling
in love with her and demanding she becomes part of his kill Castro
project.
It's not the classic Boy Meets Girl story Martin........it's a silly story
filled with BS.
jko
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 21, 9:18 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I said that before he [Rich. Helms] died. And someone asked him that question to his face [did he kill jfk].
>
> That's a bit sketchy even for you, Tony. Who was the "someone" and
> what did Helms say? Don't suppose you have any documentatiokn, huh.
>
Only because you don't know how to Google.
It was a reporter and Helms said it was preposterous.
Anthony Marsh
That is not the complete summer. So if someone leaves the program on
August 7th Barb can claim that they were dismissed and did not complete
the summer.
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 21, 9:21 pm, pjfk <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 21, 9:19 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> pjfk wrote:
>>>> In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
>>>> YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>>> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>> Of course, and only just now stuck it into my copy of the book so that
>> it could be used in her defense. :-0
>
> Your leaping onto Anthony's nonsensical statements do provide some
> comic relief, but, really Pamela......
> (Pssst...Judyth having stayed at the Y is not in dispute)
I am surprised at you. Team McAdams is supposed to dispute every fact.
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 21, 7:19 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> pjfk wrote:
>>> In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
>>> YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>
> She didn't fabricate staying at the Y.
>
Ah, so now you know the difference between a physical fact and someone's
related claims about it. But you would not grant me that same privilege.
JLeyd...@aol.com
> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
> She has always said that:
> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
Ok, if she went to N.O. at Ochsner's request, there must be a document
someplace. Produce it or tell us where we can find it.
JGL
Dave Reitzes
Yeah, right. Martin never even bothered to make a routine request to
obtain the PUBLIC documents -- those fabled CIA employment
contracts/"loyalty oaths"/whatever she's calling them this week -- Judyth
claims to have signed (at a time and place she and Martin can't seem to
agree upon, incidentally).
You can add that to your list of elementary research Martin just couldn't
be bothered to conduct.
Dave
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"barbjfk" <bar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:686c8ea7-5b41-4b97...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
pro-Castro activist--and Reily Co. was owned by a prominent
anti-Castro activist.
I doubt that makes sense to YOU, though.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:221513ca-ba49-4a01...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 21, 9:39?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
JGL
> > When did she make up this twist? ?She mentions direct association with
> > Ochsner
> > while working on this project to kill Castro. ?If he was pissed off at
> > her
> > and would
> > not hire her in some simple internship cover story, why would he allow
> > her
> > to be
> > part of his project to kill Castro? ?IT MAKES NO SENSE not to allow her
> > to
> > work
> > in a project that was perfect cover for her, that Ochsner was known to
> > be
> > involved
> > in to go flip burgers or work at Reily's.
>
> > To say he was "pissed off" at her really screws up her story even more.
> > Pissed on
> > flunky's such as Baker would be high risk in any covert operation. ?If
> >>> sciences. ?Never. ?What we really need here is some documentation that
> >>> proves this unqualified woman actually worked on secret, top- level
> >>> scientific program to develop a bioweapon to kill Castro. ?We've had
> >>> about
> >>> 20 different stories on that bogus operation and I thought I had heard
> >>> them all until Shackelford surprised me the other day with one more:
>
> >>> Shackelford 8/11/06: ?"The original summer work would have paid. When
> >>> she
> >>> became involved in the Ferrie project, they had to provide another
> >>> source
> >>> of income, and that's where Reily came in. She was promptly hired as a
> >>> secretary, despite a complete lack of secretarial skills."
>
> >>> IOW, she wasn't paid for her work on the secret project. ?Get that --
> >>> ?
> >>> not
> >>> paid. ?That's a violation of Federal law if the USG was involved. And
> >>> the
> >>> problem with the Reily job is she had to stay there all day because
> >>> she
> >>> told us her primary function was to clock out Oswald at the end of the
> >>> day. ?(He was out doing secret agent work.) ?Then the two of them were
> >>> off
> >>> doing the town on double dates with that stylish couple David & Anna
> >>> Lewis
> >>> so I never did figure out when she worked at the secret lab.
>
> >>> But I know if she really had a legitimate internship originally with
> >>> Dr.
> >>> Sherman of the Ochsner group -- and she told us she did -- there has
> >>> to
> >>> be
> >>> some paperwork Has to be. ?Failure to produce same proves the whole
> >>> thing
> >>> was a delusion. ?Team Judyth, of the remnants of same, needs to get on
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e53007$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Martin Shackelford
The burger job had nothing to do with pissing off Ochsner.
She pissed him off DURING the Castro project, not BEFORE
the burger job.
Scrambling details to make it sound silly is propaganda, James.
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e53127$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
Martin Shackelford
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6d31a2bf-4ca4-4324...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 21, 9:39?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
Anthony Marsh
No, there does not have to be a document. Wake up.
> JGL
JLeyd...@aol.com
> JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 9:18 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> I said that before he [Rich. Helms] died. And someone asked him that question to his face [did he kill jfk].
>
> > That's a bit sketchy even for you, Tony. Who was the "someone" and
> > what did Helms say? Don't suppose you have any documentatiokn, huh.
>
> Only because you don't know how to Google.
> It was a reporter and Helms said it was preposterous.
Well, we've upgraded from "someone" questioning Helms to "a reporter."
And, of course, there is no reference to your source. This is all a game
to you, isn't it? You're a lot like Shackelford. Neither of you thinks
you have to document your claims.
JGL
Anthony Marsh
> "Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:4Y1Fj.65971$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>> Stop making things up, James.
>> This is your own nonsense, pure and simple.
>> "burger flipping Reily job cover"? Could you get sillier?
>>
>> Martin
>
> Sure if I went into detail her whole story is silly.........the facts are
> as presented....she flipped burgers and Reily was a cover job. That's the
> basic's of her story. Why rehash details gone over in past
> discussions........she was invited to New Orleans by Oschner but pissed
> him off so she had to get a job flipping burgers. Oswald comes along and
No, again you twist things. The burger job is supposed to be because she
arrived in NO too early. Oschner supposedly got pissed at her later.
steve
> barbjfk wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 9:21 pm, pjfk <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 21, 9:19 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> pjfk wrote:
> >>>> In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
> >>>> YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
> >>> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
> >> Of course, and only just now stuck it into my copy of the book so that
> >> it could be used in her defense. :-0
>
> > Your leaping onto Anthony's nonsensical statements do provide some
> > comic relief, but, really Pamela......
> > (Pssst...Judyth having stayed at the Y is not in dispute)
>
> I am surprised at you. Team McAdams is supposed to dispute every fact.
Well i guess you have to rethink your whole Theory on Team McAdams
then.
steve
wrote:
> The firings occurred after Oswald became publicly identified as a
> pro-Castro activist--and Reily Co. was owned by a prominent
> anti-Castro activist.
But havent you been saying that the owner of Reily was "involved"
because he was associated with INCA? Isnt that how Judtyh and Oswald got
their "cover" jobs at Reily anyway? Why would Oswald get fired from his
cover job from a guy who knew he wasnt really a commie? Didnt Oswald call
the press himself? Why would they "sheep dip" Oswald in such a way as to
have to fire him from his cover job? These CIA guys must not be too smart
huh Martin?
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> The firings occurred after Oswald became publicly identified as a
> pro-Castro activist--and Reily Co. was owned by a prominent
> anti-Castro activist.
> I doubt that makes sense to YOU, though.
>
> Martin
You don't pay attention, Shackelford. Judyth claims Oswald was fired at
least in part because he stole a green souvenir glass for her. (She still
treasures it.) Well, that and the fact that he spent most of his time
hanging around Alba's garage reading magazines. Wow, these were a couple
of terrific secret agents. No wonder Castro is still alive, although only
barely.
JGL
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 22, 10:49 pm, JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Mar 21, 9:39�am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
>>> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
>>> She has always said that:
>>> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
>> Ok, if she went to N.O. at Ochsner's request, there must be a document
>> someplace. Produce it or tell us where we can find it.
>>
>> JGL
>
>
> Yeah, right. Martin never even bothered to make a routine request to
> obtain the PUBLIC documents -- those fabled CIA employment
Those CIA documents are PUBLIC? Then maybe you can upload some examples
for us.
> contracts/"loyalty oaths"/whatever she's calling them this week -- Judyth
> claims to have signed (at a time and place she and Martin can't seem to
> agree upon, incidentally).
>
The NSA won't even admit to having ANY documents about my father.
Dave Reitzes
wrote:
> The firings occurred after Oswald became publicly identified as a
> pro-Castro activist--and Reily Co. was owned by a prominent
> anti-Castro activist.
> I doubt that makes sense to YOU, though.
>
> Martin
Other than Judyth's word, Martin, what evidence is there that Judyth
was fired from her position at Reily?
Dave
Dave Reitzes
Just to cut this particular tangent short (?), here is my transcript of
Helms' appearance on 48 HOURS in 1992:
<QUOTE ON>-----------------------------------------
HELMS. And I am simply saying this on television because I would like the
American public to understand that the CIA was not involved in that
assassination, regardless of what anybody says. I tell you, we checked up
on it later, not only at the time, but then we checked out when the Warren
Commission was sitting and so forth, be sure that nobody had been in
Dallas on that particular day.
48 HOURS. You did that in November of 1963?
HELMS. Of course.
48 HOURS. Why did you do that? Had anybody accused the CIA at that time?
HELMS. We weren't sure that, uh -- [hesitates] The place was in an uproar,
the country was in an uproar. There was great concern that this might have
been a foreign doing of some kind. [A few unintelligible words.]
48 HOURS. Is that why you checked, or did you check because you thought
maybe some of your guys might have been involved?
HELMS. I didn't think that anybody was involved, and don't try and make me
say it.
48 HOURS. Is there a feeling that there was reason to be scared of the
fact that the President of the United States was that mad at the CIA?
HELMS. We were unhappy, but there's nothing we could do about it. What
would you suggest that one do under the circumstances?
48 HOURS. Well, you know what people have suggested you did under the
circumstances.
HELMS. What was that?
48 HOURS. You had the President killed.
HELMS. Well, that's ridiculous. That's a leap of fantasy. And Americans
who think that way have a child's mentality.
<QUOTE OFF>----------------------------------------
Re: the 11/63 CIA investigation, it seems to me that Helms was either
lying or greatly confused. Or both.
Dave
James K. Olmstead
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:UQoFj.5169$qS5....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Once again, you scramble the chronology, James.
> The burger job had nothing to do with pissing off Ochsner.
> She pissed him off DURING the Castro project, not BEFORE
> the burger job.
> Scrambling details to make it sound silly is propaganda, James.
>
> Martin
Your the one that scambled this mess.....
jko
Martin Shackelford
As long as Oswald wasn't publicly associated with Castro, working at
Reily was no problem. But as soon as his association was well-
publicized, employment at Reily became an embarrassment.
As for the connections, and what Oswald may have been doing,
historian David Kaiser has some interesting material in his new
book The Road to Dallas.
Martin
"steve" <misled...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2481dc36-fe9a-4f90...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
the burger job because she pissed off Ochsner.
Martin
"James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47e70268$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> Once again, you scramble the chronology, James.
> The burger job had nothing to do with pissing off Ochsner.
> She pissed him off DURING the Castro project, not BEFORE
> the burger job.
> Scrambling details to make it sound silly is propaganda, James.
>
> Martin
I don't think you've even read Judyth's fairy tale, Shackelford. No
wonder she claims you messed up her mss. As I recall, she "pissed off"
(you sure have a command of English, Fella) Ochsner by writing a note of
protest when she heard her little gang of cutthroats had killed off a test
subject with their secret bioweapon. But, apparently, she wasn't
sufficiently "pissed off" to take this matter to the police. Nothing in
this story makes any sense at all... and you fell for it hook, line and
sinker.
JGL
Anthony Marsh
It would be typical incompetence for the CIA.
Like using the wrong model of B-26 for the Bay of Pigs invasion.
> JGL
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 22, 9:18 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>> JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On Mar 21, 9:18 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> I said that before he [Rich. Helms] died. And someone asked him that question to his face [did he kill jfk].
>>> That's a bit sketchy even for you, Tony. Who was the "someone" and
>>> what did Helms say? Don't suppose you have any documentatiokn, huh.
>> Only because you don't know how to Google.
>> It was a reporter and Helms said it was preposterous.
>
> Well, we've upgraded from "someone" questioning Helms to "a reporter."
No, you simply fail to pay attention. I have written about this several
times before.
> And, of course, there is no reference to your source. This is all a game
> to you, isn't it? You're a lot like Shackelford. Neither of you thinks
> you have to document your claims.
>
You think that all you have to do is ignore when we do document our
claims and then claim that we never document our claims.
> JGL
pjfk
> Dave Reitzes wrote:
> > On Mar 22, 10:49 pm, JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
> >> On Mar 21, 9:39�am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
> >>> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
> >>> She has always said that:
> >>> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
> >> Ok, if she went to N.O. at Ochsner's request, there must be a document
> >> someplace. Produce it or tell us where we can find it.
>
> >> JGL
>
> > Yeah, right. Martin never even bothered to make a routine request to
> > obtain the PUBLIC documents -- those fabled CIA employment
>
> Those CIA documents are PUBLIC? Then maybe you can upload some examples
> for us.
>
> > contracts/"loyalty oaths"/whatever she's calling them this week -- Judyth
> > claims to have signed (at a time and place she and Martin can't seem to
> > agree upon, incidentally).
>
> The NSA won't even admit to having ANY documents about my father.
>
That is the issue. When things are supposed to be covert, there is no
paper trail. So how do we research them?
On the other hand, I have a friend who worked at one point for a govt
contractor and was required to sign an oath of loyalty. That document
might not be available to the public, but does, or did, exist somewhere.
steve
wrote:
> You're confusing the CIA guys with yourself, steve.
> As long as Oswald wasn't publicly associated with Castro, working at
> Reily was no problem. But as soon as his association was well-
> publicized, employment at Reily became an embarrassment.
Why would the CIA guys cause themselves embarrassment?
> As for the connections, and what Oswald may have been doing,
> historian David Kaiser has some interesting material in his new
> book The Road to Dallas.
>
> Martin
>
> "steve" <misledrks...@aol.com> wrote in message
JLeyd...@aol.com
> The NSA won't even admit to having ANY documents about my father.
>
>
Not surprising, Tony. You told us on 3/15/03 that he didn’t leave
under the best of conditions. You said, “He resigned in protest over
their drug testing program. He did not go public. I am alive today
as a result. He reached an agreement with NSA where he would remain
quiet. He did not want to become another Frank Olson.” Good thing
NSA is stiffing you and you don’t have to document that crackpot
story. Still, I’m glad you’re alive, Tony.
JGL
> > Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
JLeyd...@aol.com
This dodge is getting a little old, Tony.
JGL
Martin Shackelford
her getting a burger job.
Martin
<JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3e2d4ee0-c374-4570...@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 23, 2:40?pm, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
Anthony Marsh
YOU are the one who is dodging, by not paying attention and then asking
me the same questions that I already answered hundreds of times before.
Why do I not see you harassing the WC defender who replied to your question?
> JGL
>
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 23, 9:32 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The NSA won't even admit to having ANY documents about my father.
>>
>>
> Not surprising, Tony. You told us on 3/15/03 that he didn’t leave
> under the best of conditions. You said, “He resigned in protest over
> their drug testing program. He did not go public. I am alive today
> as a result. He reached an agreement with NSA where he would remain
> quiet. He did not want to become another Frank Olson.” Good thing
> NSA is stiffing you and you don’t have to document that crackpot
> story. Still, I’m glad you’re alive, Tony.
>
Hard to understand what your point is. I am not just complaining that NSA
did not release the consent agreement. I said that they would not release
ANY files whatsoever about my father. You still can't pronounce cover-up.
JLeyd...@aol.com
wrote:
> Thanks for confirming that Ochsner's anger had nothing to do with
> her getting a burger job.
>
> Martin
Well, I'm always glad to help out, Shackelford, but, you know, this is
another matter you could have pursued with Judyth's ex-husband if you had
just picked up the phone and talked with him. Of course, you didn't.
Judyth was your mentor and you were her (you said it not I) "lackey."
JGL
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 23, 9:32 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Dave Reitzes wrote:
>>> On Mar 22, 10:49 pm, JLeyden...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> On Mar 21, 9:39�am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
>>>>> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
>>>>> She has always said that:
>>>>> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
>>>> Ok, if she went to N.O. at Ochsner's request, there must be a document
>>>> someplace. Produce it or tell us where we can find it.
>>>> JGL
>>> Yeah, right. Martin never even bothered to make a routine request to
>>> obtain the PUBLIC documents -- those fabled CIA employment
>> Those CIA documents are PUBLIC? Then maybe you can upload some examples
>> for us.
>>
>>> contracts/"loyalty oaths"/whatever she's calling them this week -- Judyth
>>> claims to have signed (at a time and place she and Martin can't seem to
>>> agree upon, incidentally).
>> The NSA won't even admit to having ANY documents about my father.
>>
>
> That is the issue. When things are supposed to be covert, there is no
> paper trail. So how do we research them?
>
Well, I'll give you a little hint. Sometimes the paper trail is ordered
destroyed, but someone kept copies. And in the examples I present about my
father you will never read it in any history book or document. It only
exists because he told me.
> On the other hand, I have a friend who worked at one point for a govt
> contractor and was required to sign an oath of loyalty. That document
> might not be available to the public, but does, or did, exist somewhere.
>
Sure. There are many documents which do not still exist or we can never
see.
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 23, 2:40�pm, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> Once again, you scramble the chronology, James.
>> The burger job had nothing to do with pissing off Ochsner.
>> She pissed him off DURING the Castro project, not BEFORE
>> the burger job.
>> Scrambling details to make it sound silly is propaganda, James.
>>
>> Martin
>
> I don't think you've even read Judyth's fairy tale, Shackelford. No
> wonder she claims you messed up her mss. As I recall, she "pissed off"
> (you sure have a command of English, Fella) Ochsner by writing a note of
Strange that you should write in one breath when you said in another
breath that SHE was the one who personally did the killing.
> protest when she heard her little gang of cutthroats had killed off a test
> subject with their secret bioweapon. But, apparently, she wasn't
> sufficiently "pissed off" to take this matter to the police. Nothing in
> this story makes any sense at all... and you fell for it hook, line and
> sinker.
>
You don't take Top Secret CIA projects to the police. Look what happened
to Frank Olson. Look what happened to Mary Sherman.
> JGL
pjfk
We're not supposed to open that door. We're supposed to consider Judyth
only in a vacuum.
steve
Someone did take it to the police, how do you think Garrison got
started? On another note, I didnt know Olson and Sherman had gone to
the police! Where can i read that info?
>
>
>
> > JGL- Hide quoted text -
paul seaton
"pjfk" <pamel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0d73ee51-59f0-4088...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...[..]
> You don't take Top Secret CIA projects to the police. Look what happened
> to Frank Olson. Look what happened to Mary Sherman.
>
We're not supposed to open that door. We're supposed to consider Judyth
only in a vacuum.
## WARNING : DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
JLeyd...@aol.com
> Hard to understand what your point is. I am not just complaining that NSA
> did not release the consent agreement. I said that they would not release
> ANY files whatsoever about my father. You still can't pronounce cover-up.
Well, my point is that you shouldn't be posting silly little stories if
you don't have the evidence to back them up. Makes me think you -- like
so many CTs -- are just playing games here.
JGL
Dave Reitzes
wrote:
> "pjfk" <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The prospect of Judyth in a vacuum has the whiff of "just desserts"
about it.
Dave
Anthony Marsh
Of course I should. That's the only way to get the information out which
the government refuses to release.
My father set aside 4 caches of documents. The CIA found 2 of them, I
found one of them and I think I know where the last one is, but don't
have the resources to get to them. One set was given to his colleague
John Paisley and you know what happened to him.
> JGL
Anthony Marsh
We were talking about the Castro assassination plots and MK/ULTRA
projects. No one took those to the police.
And my point was that it was hard for them to take it to the police when
they were killed before they could spill the beans.
steve
Thats all that guy does is play games.
>
> JGL
JLeyd...@aol.com
> Of course I should. That's the only way to get the information out which
> the government refuses to release.
> My father set aside 4 caches of documents. The CIA found 2 of them, I
> found one of them and I think I know where the last one is, but don't
> have the resources to get to them. One set was given to his colleague
> John Paisley and you know what happened to him.
>
Boy, you certainly don't do you father any favors. First, you paint him
as a blabber mouth, violating his security oath by briefing you on NSA
business. Now you claim he stole govt. documents. BTW, Paisley wasn't
your father's "collegue." He worked at the CIA, not NSA. Stop playing
spy games, Tony.
JGL
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Your basis for claiming that was a fabrication, Barb?
Because Roswell Park did not provide, nor arrange, housing for any of
the students. Students received lists of possible places they could
obtain housing to make their own arrangements before ariving in
Buffalo. The students lived in dorms at a university, roominghouses,
...the Y ...stayed with family or friends ...whatever they could
arrange and wanted to do. They were not housed together anywhere. They
also had to arrange their own transportation to and from Roswell
everyday.
Barb :-)
>
>Martin
>
>"barbjfk" <bar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:686c8ea7-5b41-4b97...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>On Mar 21, 7:19 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> pjfk wrote:
>> > In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
>> > YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>>
>> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>
>She didn't fabricate staying at the Y.
>
>She fabricated when she said she was "isolated" from the other
>students and made to stay at the Y instead of in dorms with the
>others.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> > This gives a clear indication that she was still in Buffalo at least
>> > until
>> > this date. This would add to the newspaper information which stated she
>> > was back with her family for only a few days prior to leaving for
>> > college
>> > at St. Francis.- Hide quoted text -
Barb Junkkarinen
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
>originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
>under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
>didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
>got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
>She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
>be paperwork relating to an internship.
Maybe you need to reread the section starting at the bottom of page 37
...subtitled, "AN OFFER I COULDN'T REFUSE."
And onto the next page ...all about the phone call from Ochsner
telling her she'd be working under Dr. Maey Sherman as an intern......
Barb :-)
>
>Martin
>
><JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:685581be-c173-4e32...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 18, 9:50 pm, pjfk <pamelaj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Since Barb has Judyth's book, she has access to the footnotes, which
>>> contain the following information from newspaper sources, most likely
>>> the St. Petersburg Times.
>>
>> Here we go again. This obsessive focus by Team Judyth and its ladies
>> auxiliary on Judith's high school "cancer research" is a smoke screen to
>> obscure the fact that she never earned a university degree in the hard
>> sciences. Never. What we really need here is some documentation that
>> proves this unqualified woman actually worked on secret, top- level
>> scientific program to develop a bioweapon to kill Castro. We've had about
>> 20 different stories on that bogus operation and I thought I had heard
>> them all until Shackelford surprised me the other day with one more:
>>
>> Shackelford 8/11/06: "The original summer work would have paid. When she
>> became involved in the Ferrie project, they had to provide another source
>> of income, and that's where Reily came in. She was promptly hired as a
>> secretary, despite a complete lack of secretarial skills."
>>
>> IOW, she wasn't paid for her work on the secret project. Get that -- not
>> paid. That's a violation of Federal law if the USG was involved. And the
>> problem with the Reily job is she had to stay there all day because she
>> told us her primary function was to clock out Oswald at the end of the
>> day. (He was out doing secret agent work.) Then the two of them were off
>> doing the town on double dates with that stylish couple David & Anna Lewis
>> so I never did figure out when she worked at the secret lab.
>>
>> But I know if she really had a legitimate internship originally with Dr.
>> Sherman of the Ochsner group -- and she told us she did -- there has to be
>> some paperwork Has to be. Failure to produce same proves the whole thing
>> was a delusion. Team Judyth, of the remnants of same, needs to get on the
>> ball.
>>
>> JGL
>
steve
wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2008 11:11:33 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
>
> >Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
> >originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
> >under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
> >didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
> >got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
> >She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
> >be paperwork relating to an internship.
>
> Maybe you need to reread the section starting at the bottom of page 37
> ...subtitled, "AN OFFER I COULDN'T REFUSE."
>
> And onto the next page ...all about the phone call from Ochsner
> telling her she'd be working under Dr. Maey Sherman as an intern......
Lets forget about Martin not bothering to even check out Judyth's
tale with her ex husband Robert or Oswalds wife Marina for a second,
because it sounds like he didnt even read her Judyths book.
>
> Barb :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> >Martin
>
> ><JLeyden...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> JGL- Hide quoted text -
steve
wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2008 15:38:58 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
>
> >Your basis for claiming that was a fabrication, Barb?
>
> Because Roswell Park did not provide, nor arrange, housing for any of
> the students. Students received lists of possible places they could
> obtain housing to make their own arrangements before ariving in
> Buffalo. The students lived in dorms at a university, roominghouses,
> ...the Y ...stayed with family or friends ...whatever they could
> arrange and wanted to do. They were not housed together anywhere. They
> also had to arrange their own transportation to and from Roswell
> everyday.
Martin would know this stuff if he had bothered to check out
Judyth's wacky story to begin with.
>
> Barb :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> >Martin
>
> >"barbjfk" <barb...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:686c8ea7-5b41-4b97...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >On Mar 21, 7:19 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> pjfk wrote:
> >> > In the footnotes of Judyth's book, on page 650 appears the YMCA receipt:
> >> > YMCA Residence Rent Envelope Received, dated 8/25
>
> >> Team McAdams will claim that she fabricated it.
>
> >She didn't fabricate staying at the Y.
>
> >She fabricated when she said she was "isolated" from the other
> >students and made to stay at the Y instead of in dorms with the
> >others.
>
> >> > This gives a clear indication that she was still in Buffalo at least
> >> > until
> >> > this date. This would add to the newspaper information which stated she
> >> > was back with her family for only a few days prior to leaving for
> >> > college
> >> > at St. Francis.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Barb Junkkarinen
<jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:eBIEj.21955$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
>> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
>
>Funny....if there is nothing new here you forgot to mention below why she
>"pissed off" Ochsner? Seems you want to avoid your own statement.
He do seem to be dancing around this.
In her book, when it comes to justifying killing the mental patient,
Judyth goes through this angst thing where she jots a note to Ochsner
saying it's not right (on the heels of finding out ther patient wasn't
already dying from cancer in the first place...which is ludicrous from
a bioweapon research stance in the first place) ... .Ochsner called
Judyth and screamed "no paper trail" at her and told her she was
through ....BUT ...she agreed to go finish the job at the mental
hospital and report to him.<g>
It's just more silliness....but silliness that came late, not before
this whole nonsense allegedly got started.
Hey...surgery all done? You look great here in cyberspace!
Barb :-)
>
>jko
>
>> She has always said that:
>> 1) She went to New Orleans at Ochsner's request.
>
>Did this piss off Ochsner?
>
>
>> 2) She arrived two weeks earlier than expected, needed money for
>> expenses, so got the temporary job at the burger place. That job
>> had nothing to do with her original plans or subsequent activities.
>
>Did this piss off Ochsner?
>
>> 3) She ran into Oswald and was introduced to Ferrie. She talked
>> with Ochsner. She and Oswald were provided with cover jobs at
>> Reily.
>>
>
>Did this piss off Ochsner?
>
>There has to be some twist here.... something that "pissed off" Ochsner
>that made him drop Judyth as part of his "request".
>
>jko
>
>
>> Martin
>>
>> "James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message news:47e2...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>>>
>>>
>>> She went to New Orleans
>>>> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
>>>> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
>>>> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
>>>
>>> When did she make up this twist? She mentions direct association with Ochsner
>>> while working on this project to kill Castro. If he was pissed off at her and would
>>> not hire her in some simple internship cover story, why would he allow her to be
>>> part of his project to kill Castro? IT MAKES NO SENSE not to allow her to work
>>> in a project that was perfect cover for her, that Ochsner was known to be involved
>>> in to go flip burgers or work at Reily's.
>>>
>>> To say he was "pissed off" at her really screws up her story even more. Pissed on
>>> flunky's such as Baker would be high risk in any covert operation. If Oswald pulled
>>> strings to get her assigned to work on this project....she's placing Oswald in a very
>>> high position of power over the people involved......which is not the case she presents
>>> at all in her story.
>>>
>>> jko
>>>
>>> "Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:NvqEj.20431$Ch6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
>>>> originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
>>>> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
>>>> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
>>>> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
>>>> She has never made a claim about Ochsner that would suggest there would
>>>> be paperwork relating to an internship.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> <JLeyd...@aol.com> wrote in message news:685581be-c173-4e32...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Barb Junkkarinen
<jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:SW1Fj.65970$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>> The episode is detailed in her book, James. I didn't feel the need
>> to detail it on the newsgroup. Also, when I've already dealt with
>> an issue, I don't feel the need to keep re-posting the same information
>> over and over.
>> In another post, I mentioned that Ochsner was pissed off when she
>> committed information about the project to writing. He wanted
>> nothing in writing.
>> Clear?
>>
>
>No because you indicated that she pissed him off before she got involved
>in any project, therefore she was never employed by Ochsner. If you
>combined elements from different timeframes of her story.......how do you
>expect anyone to keep track of the BS.
Baffle 'em with BS seems to have been the plan of sorts, eh?
Barb :-)
>
>jko
>
>
>> Martin
>>
>> "James K. Olmstead" <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message news:47e3...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
>>>
>>> "Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:eBIEj.21955$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
>>>> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
>>>
>>> Funny....if there is nothing new here you forgot to mention below why she "pissed off" Ochsner? Seems you want to
>>> avoid your own statement.
>>>
Barb Junkkarinen
>On Mar 23, 2:39?pm, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>> The firings occurred after Oswald became publicly identified as a
>> pro-Castro activist--and Reily Co. was owned by a prominent
>> anti-Castro activist.
>> I doubt that makes sense to YOU, though.
>>
>> Martin
>
>You don't pay attention, Shackelford. Judyth claims Oswald was fired at
>least in part because he stole a green souvenir glass for her. (She still
>treasures it.) Well, that and the fact that he spent most of his time
>hanging around Alba's garage reading magazines. Wow, these were a couple
>of terrific secret agents. No wonder Castro is still alive, although only
>barely.
Hey. anyday now we'll be hearing her bioweapon worked ....however
belatedly.<g>
Barb :-)
>
>JGL
Barb Junkkarinen
<anthon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>pjfk wrote:
>> Here is a link to the current information to the Roswell Park summer
>> program. It goes for 10 weeks, from June 2 - Aug 7.
>>
>> http://www.roswellpark.org/Education/Summer_Programs/SummerResearchExperiencesforUndergraduates_REU
>>
>
>
>That is not the complete summer. So if someone leaves the program on
>August 7th Barb can claim that they were dismissed and did not complete
>the summer.
You two deserve each other. :-)
The rest of us know that 2008 doesn't mean anything when it comes to
judyth. She was there in 1961.
steve
Really?
> No one took those to the police.
I know that,I was making fun of you by using your own Judyth
defender tactics against you.
> And my point was that it was hard for them to take it to the police when
> they were killed before they could spill the beans.
Care to point out any connection between the death of Sherman and
the CIA? or are you making things up again?
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> JGL- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 27, 2:15�pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Of course I should. That's the only way to get the information out which
>> the government refuses to release.
>> My father set aside 4 caches of documents. The CIA found 2 of them, I
>> found one of them and I think I know where the last one is, but don't
>> have the resources to get to them. One set was given to his colleague
>> John Paisley and you know what happened to him.
>>
>
> Boy, you certainly don't do you father any favors. First, you paint him
> as a blabber mouth, violating his security oath by briefing you on NSA
> business. Now you claim he stole govt. documents. BTW, Paisley wasn't
NO, I don't.
> your father's "collegue." He worked at the CIA, not NSA. Stop playing
> spy games, Tony.
>
Yes, Paisley was. My father was the NSA liaison to the CIA and John
Paisley was his counterpart liaison from the CIA to the NSA. For a couple
of years Paisley was sent to work at CIA.
You just don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
> JGL
James K. Olmstead
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:o9bpu3hvep4obhqih...@4ax.com...
> On 20 Mar 2008 11:11:33 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
>>originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
>>under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
>>didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
>>got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
So killing Castro was just a "summer project" and after that she could
start an internship with Dr. Sherman in New Orleans?
You indicated that the move to New Orleans was an invite from
Ochsner.....this is so screwed up you can never dig yourself out of
this....so don't even try.
Perhaps you should bookmark Dave R's site so you can keep track of what
you say....although I don't think he's bothered to add the last month or
two of postings.
jko
James K. Olmstead
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:qagqu3h5r52oln23m...@4ax.com...
> On 21 Mar 2008 21:30:46 -0400, "James K. Olmstead"
> <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:eBIEj.21955$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>>> You have things twisted, James. There is nothing new about this, so
>>> I don't know why you are asking "When did she make up this twist?"
>>
>>Funny....if there is nothing new here you forgot to mention below why she
>>"pissed off" Ochsner? Seems you want to avoid your own statement.
>
> He do seem to be dancing around this.
Dancing he is.....not very good however.
>
> In her book, when it comes to justifying killing the mental patient,
> Judyth goes through this angst thing where she jots a note to Ochsner
> saying it's not right (on the heels of finding out ther patient wasn't
> already dying from cancer in the first place...which is ludicrous from
> a bioweapon research stance in the first place) ... .Ochsner called
> Judyth and screamed "no paper trail" at her and told her she was
> through ....BUT ...she agreed to go finish the job at the mental
> hospital and report to him.<g>
>
> It's just more silliness....but silliness that came late, not before
> this whole nonsense allegedly got started.
>
> Hey...surgery all done? You look great here in cyberspace!
Nope.....the new surgeon refused to do it because I didn't have another
shot treatment prior, that he felt should have been given instead of the
series that they (VA) did give (which provided about 7 mins of pain
relief). So I get the shots starting the 3rd and he will re consider the
28th of April. The pain keeps me from standing up and walking without
difficulty......I have to move like a Sloth to do anything.
The proceedure is very risky and he indicates it can be fatal...so we have
to try the shots. If the shots help he feels that the operation will work,
if they don't I'm out of luck...thanks for asking.
jko
James K. Olmstead
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:eqgqu3dlctoog7538...@4ax.com...
> On 22 Mar 2008 22:05:04 -0400, "James K. Olmstead"
> <jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:SW1Fj.65970$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>> The episode is detailed in her book, James. I didn't feel the need
>>> to detail it on the newsgroup. Also, when I've already dealt with
>>> an issue, I don't feel the need to keep re-posting the same information
>>> over and over.
>>> In another post, I mentioned that Ochsner was pissed off when she
>>> committed information about the project to writing. He wanted
>>> nothing in writing.
>>> Clear?
>>>
>>
>>No because you indicated that she pissed him off before she got involved
>>in any project, therefore she was never employed by Ochsner. If you
>>combined elements from different timeframes of her story.......how do you
>>expect anyone to keep track of the BS.
>
> Baffle 'em with BS seems to have been the plan of sorts, eh?
Yep.....he is not the Martin I first encountered years ago.
jko
Barb Junkkarinen
<jolm...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
I'm so sorry to hear this, James. :-( I am glad the doctor is being so
cautious though.
All good vibes aimed ...and prayers aloft everyday!
God bless ya, sweet thang,
Barb :-)
>
>jko
Anthony Marsh
Hey, that's MY joke. You owe me royalties!
> Barb :-)
>> JGL
>
JLeyd...@aol.com
> Yes, Paisley was. My father was the NSA liaison to the CIA and John
> Paisley was his counterpart liaison from the CIA to the NSA. For a couple
> of years Paisley was sent to work at CIA.
>
> You just don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
>
According to Paisley's on-line bio he joined the CIA in Dec. 1953, and you
told us a rather silljy story about your father resigning from NSA (in
protest) in 1954. Couldn't have been much of an association between the
two. Of course, you have no evidence of anything you say, do you? It's
all Tonyspeak.
JGL
James K. Olmstead
"Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:glaru350u6rbint55...@4ax.com...
Thanks for the thoughts....The switch to a new Dr always delays
things....but there is not much choice going thru VA hospitals. I'm glad
he's cautious to a point....it's just frustrating having one say one thing
and another saying another.
jko
Anthony Marsh
You seem to make a habit of misrepresenting. I said that Paisley was my
father's counterpart liaison at CIA. They were close friends. My sister
and I used to play with the Paisley kids while the grownups talked shop.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKpaisley.htm
Paisley officially joined the Central Intelligence Agency in December,
1953. However, his friend, Leonard Masters, believes that Paisley was in
fact recruited several years earlier at university by Richard Innes.
Paisley joined the CIA's new Electronics Branch as an Economics
Intelligence Officer. While based in Washington, Paisley became friends
with Bernard Fensterwald.
In 1953 Paisley went to Washington where he was given the job of
monitoring the development of electronics in the Soviet Union. Two years
later the CIA loaned him out to the National Security Agency (NSA) where
he analyzed the electronic data coming back from the Berlin Tunnel, an
electronic listening post that William K. Harvey and his staff managed
to establish in Germany.
They stayed in contact over the years. Many years later Paisley gave my
father the information about the mole hunt.
Anthony Marsh
> "Barb Junkkarinen" <barbRE...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:o9bpu3hvep4obhqih...@4ax.com...
>> On 20 Mar 2008 11:11:33 -0400, "Martin Shackelford"
>> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Please provide documentation of your absurd claim that Judyth said she
>>> originally had an internship with Dr. Sherman. She went to New Orleans
>>> under the ASSUMPTION that she would have such an internship, but it
>>> didn't happen--it was supposed to follow the summer project, but Ochsner
>>> got pissed off at her and withdrew the opportunity.
>
> So killing Castro was just a "summer project" and after that she could
> start an internship with Dr. Sherman in New Orleans?
>
Well, if the CIA effort had been successful there would be no need to
keep the program going beyond that.
Anthony Marsh
No, I didn't say the CIA killed Mary Sherman, but someone did. Or can
you even admit that she was murdered?
steve
Yeah ya did! "You don't take Top Secret CIA projects to the police. Look
what happened to Frank Olson. Look what happened to Mary Sherman." Whats
that sentence mean Marsh?
JLeyd...@aol.com
Like Judyth Baker, you have a richj, full fantasy life, Tony. Weren't
you in the movie "Spy Kids?"
JGL
> father the information about the mole hunt.- Hide quoted text -
Anthony Marsh
I did not say that the CIA killed Mary Sherman. Can you even admit that
someone did?
You can't even admit that someone killed Frank Olson.
steve
I dont have to admit something iv never denied. She sure as hell
didnt kill herself, but you were wrong to imply it was CIA connected
without presenting evidence. I called you on it, and now your
backtracking, but whats your point?
> You can't even admit that someone killed Frank Olson.
Im 87% sure someone killed Frank.Your arguing with the wrong one if
you think im going to excuse murder or dosing people up with LSD and
not telling them, or any of the other wacky things the CIA did to
people.
Anthony Marsh
> On Mar 30, 3:24�pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Like Judyth Baker, you have a richj, full fantasy life, Tony. Weren't
> you in the movie "Spy Kids?"
>
Unlike Judyth I have the documents to back it up. You have nothing.