Re: How the magic bullet ended up on the gurney
Robert Harris
<antima...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I am not a conspiracist and not an expert on this but I am a long time
>hat wearer. I think I know how the bullet ended up on the gurney at
>the hospital.
>
>We know from the "hat flip" that Connally was holding his hat in his
>right hand - we even know how he was holding it - the with fingers
>curled inside the crown at the back (you never hold the hat in such a
>way as to mess up the front brim). With his arm in his lap, the
>natural position for a hat so held would be to cover the top of the
>wrist.
>
>And so it's clear - the "magic bullet" has just gotten supernaturally
>magical, because it would appear to have been caught in Connally's hat
>after exiting his wrist. Stetson hats are extremely rugged. A spent
>bullet would likely not penetrate it, moreover, a bullet rattling
>around in a stiff hat would have no trouble finding its way between
>the sweat band and the crown. Nellie Connally explicitly stated that
>the Governor held firmly onto his hat all the way to the hospital.
>Likely the bullet fell out of the hat as he was being prepped for
>treatment.
>
>And there you have it. The most famous bullet in American history was
>caught inside the Stetson hat of the Governor of Texas, after making
>six entrance and exit wounds.
>
>-drl
The bullet that was found by Daryl Tomlinson on a stretcher at
Parkland hospital was absolutely, not the the one that came from
Connally's leg. The evidence for this is beyond any possible doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwqhf0MYio
The video is broken into two parts. Be sure to click on the part two
link to get the rest of it.
Robert Harris
deSitter
complete wound. You can't even remove a wood splinter without effort.
Swelling would have completely grasped the bullet had it penetrated
the skin. Plus there was no blood found on the bullet. The only way to
explain that is to assume the bullet passed quickly through any tissue
it met and blood did not have time to accumulate in the jacket seams
and striations.
Raymond
>
> - Show quoted text -
In earlier studies of bullet leads from many different manufacturers
it was found that bullets from a given manufacturer and production
lot were generally quite uniform in their Sb and Ag concentrations,
both
within a given bullet and amongst bullets from the same box or
production lot. Thus, for such typical ammunition it is generally not
possible to distinguish amongst bullets or bullet fragments from the
same box of cartridges.
However, when analyzed quite a number of Western Cartridge Company
Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 mm bullets ...
" this ammunition was found to differ sharply from typical bullet
leads. Although individual bullets were found to be fairly
homogeneous
in their Sb and Ag concentrations, they differed greatly from bullet
to bullet amongst samples taken from the same box.".
Sb and Ag
silver and antimony in bullets
(HSCA, I, p. 511)
Mannlicher-Carcano bullet leads are said to follow this pattern:
1.production lot--heterogeneous
2.individual boxes of bullets--heterogeneous pieces of individual
bullet-- fairly homogeneous
According to the Warren Commission, the FBI had done what was called
"spectrographic analysis" on some of the ballistics evidence in the
JFK case. According to Henry Hurt's discussion of this in his book
Reasonable Doubt, both the FBI and the Commission were maddeningly
vague about the results of the analysis. According to Hurt, this
issue was to be addressed by the last witness called by the
Commission, who
was involved in the spectrographic analysis. Yet, during his
interview, the commissioners never asked him a question on the issue.
The Warren Report then noted that there were similarities in the
metal composition of some of the bullet fragments. With the actual
analysis
not present and these vague generic terms in play, most considered
that what the FBI did was not of any forensic value.
But it was later revealed that the FBI had gone beyond spectography
to a much finer testing of the bullet fragments for trace metal
testing
of what the lead cores were made out of: namely neutron activation
analysis. Yet although this kind of testing is much more exact for
analysis of what metals are in the bullet lead and to what degree,
according to Hurt, there is no mention of it in the Warren Report or
the accompanying volumes of evidence and testimony. But in a later
declassified letter from J. Edgar Hoover to the Commission, the so-
called 1964 NAA tests were noted. Although Hoover tries to put the
best face on the results, the sum total of his letter was that they
were inconclusive.
(Hurt, p. 81)
The whole NAA issue seemed to be a dead end. But that did not
discourage HSCA Chief Counsel Robert Blakey. Blakey decided to do a
"retest" of the compositional analysis of the lead cores of the
bullets involved in the case for the HSCA in September of 1977. Dr.
Vincent Guinn, a nuclear chemist at Cal Irvine, did the testing and
the HSCA called him as a witness at its public hearings. Guinn was
called upon on September 8, 1978. The difference between what Hoover
had reported, or not reported, in 1964 and what Guinn and the HSCA
declared in 1978 was startling. The scientific test called NAA went
from being "inconclusive" to showing that:
Only two bullets struck the presidential limo and its occupants,
thereby upholding the Warren Commission.
The Warren Wizards said: "The consensus among the witnesses at the
scene was that three shots were fired. However, some heard only two
shots. The most convincing evidence relating to the number of shots
was provided by the presence on the sixth floor of three spent
cartridges. This led the Commission to conclude that there were three
shots...." WR 110-111
.
But, later they said, "The physical and other evidence examined by
the Commission compels the conclusion that AT LEAST TWO SHOTS WERE
FIRED... It is possible that the assassin carried an EMPTY SHELL IN
THE RIFLE and fired only two shots ...." WR 111
After the coup, two bullet fragments were found in the Lincoln.
According to Warren , the two fragments weighed 44.6 and 21.0 grains
respectively."The heavier fragment was a portion of a bullet's nose
area... the lighter fragment consisted of a bullet's base... the two
fragments were both mutilated, and it was not possible to determine
from the fragments themselves whether they comprised the base and
nose
of one bullet or of two separate bullets."
If one bullet missed the car completely and one ended up at Parkland
almost pristine, those fragments had to be the bullet that hit JFK in
the head and both fragments were from the same projectile. Or, they
are from the first bullet that passed through the neck of JFK and the
body of Gov. Connally, which makes more sense considering the angle
of
the shot.
That leave the Parkland bullet to be explained for its place in
Limbo.
I personally do not believe there was a missed shot. Like George
Evica, I believe the report of a first shot was an explosive device
(gun or otherwise) to create a diversion from the shooter in the
TSBD.
Anyone can prove there were two shots at the limousine but no one can
prove there were three shots.
All bullet lead trace metal analysis showed that the ammunition came
from Western Cartridge Company's Mannlicher-Carcano (WCC MC)
manufacture. This would seem to link the ammunition to the alleged
rifle found on the sixth floor.
Fragments from Connally's wrist were "matched" with CE 399, or the
stretcher bullet that allegedly went through Kennedy also. This would
seem to indicate the Warren Commission was right about the single
bullet theory. However, critics have repeatedly advanced the argument
that the four fragments in Connally's wrist and thigh contained too
much mass to have come from CE 399. ...
The fragments and the reasons for analyzing them
The fragments recovered
Five basic fragments were recovered from the car, the hospital, and
the men's bodies. They and their masses are listed in Table 1 below,
which represents the pieces received by the FBI laboratory and
analyzed spectroscopically by them.. The source of this information
is a little-known FBI memo of 11 June 1979 from a "JWK" to the HSCA.
Their locations are shown in Figure 1, with the stretcher bullet Q1
being associated with Governor Connally's left thigh because that is
where it originally was.
Table 1. Bullets and fragments received by the FBI.
Specimen
Description
Total weight, grains
Total weight, milligrams
CE 399 (Q1)
Bullet from stretcher (lead core plus jacket)
158.6
10,277
The amount of mass lost by CE 399 cannot be known precisely because
it
was not weighed beforehand. Ranges or averages of unfired bullets of
that type must be provided instead, and the final weight
subtracted.And, what about the mass of the fragments not recovered
from Connally's wrist?
Does anyone stop to consider that it was the only remaining certain
evidene to connect the shooting to the rifle found in the TSBD-that
was also connected to LHO? Even though a rifle was seen firing at the
motorcade and found and traced to LHO, it only became strong evidence
against him when a bullet fired from CE 2766 was ballistically proven
to have been fired through the barrel of the murder weapon. (CE 399)
Otherwise all else was circumstantial. Without it, a good defense
attorney could have made hay with what evidense was available.
Audrey Bell, the operating nurse, stated that there were four or
five fragments "anywhere from three to four millimeters in length and
a couple of millimeters wide. " These fragments disappeared at the
autopsy.
In addittion, what happened to the fragment found in Connally's leg
wound? Also. , there was a fragment in the governor's chest that was
never recovered. He died with fragments still in his body that
weighed more that the alleged two to three missing grains from C-399
that was described as near pristine. And the Warrens say , about
pristine, "The Governor's wrist wound WAS NOT CAUSED BY A PRISTINE
BULLET." p.94
As Ass't DA Alexander said, "The single bullet is like the
Immaculate Conception. Either you believe it or you don't."
CE 567 (Q2)
Bullet fragment from seat cushion (lead core plus brass jacket)
44.6
2,890
CE 569 (Q3)
Bullet fragment from front seat (jacket)
21.0
1,361
CE 843 (Q4,5)
Two lead fragments from President's head[2]
1.65; 0.15
107; 9.7
CE 842 (Q9)
Three lead fragments from Connally's arm
0.5
32
CE 840 (Q14)
Three lead fragments from rear carpet
0.9, 0.7, 0.7
58, 45, 45
CE 841 (Q15)
Scraping from inside surface of windshield
None listed
During the autopsy at Bethesda, X-rays of the president's brain
revealed that a multitude of tiny fragments were lodged there. ONLY
TWO were large enough to be retrieved (Q4, 5). They were given to
Secret Service Agents James W. Sibert and Francis O'Neill, Jr., who
transported them immediately to FBI Headquarters.
Three small fragments of lead (Q9) were recovered from Governor
Connally's arm during surgery. They were removed by Dr. Gregory and
given to Nurse Audrey Bell, who placed them in a container and gave
them to Bob Dolan of the Department of Public Safety, who gave them
to
Will Fritz of the Dallas Police, who passed them on to the FBI.
An unfired M-Carcano round weighed 161 grains. Right?
Three shots were reported to be heard and fired. Right?
And, three spent casings were found in the TSBD. Right?
That means that a total of 483 grains of lead were fired and had
to be accounted for.Right?
If more than that is recovered, someone has some explaining to
do-including me. Right?
IF(IF) a shot missed completely, we now have 322 grains
remaining. Right?
The Parkland slug weighed 158.6 grains, so now we have 163.4
grains to account for.
70.2 grains were recovered from the limo, JFK and Connally. They
became the mass of ballistic evidence in possession of the FBI and
eventually turned over to the HSCA.
Now we have a little over 90 grains to account for. It no doubt
went into Dealy Plaza, was lost during the autopsy, or was buried
with John Connally.
I accept Audrey Bell's account regarding the bullet fragments that
were removed from Connally's wrist. Although Dr. Charles Gregory said
the fragments that were removed from the Governor's wrist were
merely "flakes of metal" and that they weighed less than a postage
stamp, that is not how Nurse Bell remembers it at all. Nurse Bell is
the Parkland Hospital operating-room nurse who handled the fragments
that were removed from the Governor's wrist. She insists the
fragments
were not merely flakes but were identifiable pieces of metal anywhere
from 3 to 4 millimeters in length by 2 millimeters wide. This squares
with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert
Shaw. Interviewed for the award-winning 1988 documentary REASONABLE
DOUBT: THE SINGLE-BULLET THEORY, Shaw said, "I am sure that the
bullet
that inflicted these wounds on Governor Connally was fragmented much
more than this bullet [CE 399] shows."
bigdog
> complete wound. You can't even remove a wood splinter without effort.
> Swelling would have completely grasped the bullet had it penetrated
> the skin. Plus there was no blood found on the bullet. The only way to
> explain that is to assume the bullet passed quickly through any tissue
> it met and blood did not have time to accumulate in the jacket seams
> and striations.
>
after penetrating only a few inches.
It is extremely unlikely a bullet could lodge in a wound and then fall
out. However, Connally's thigh wound was a superficial one, the result
of the bullet being severely slowed by passing through his chest and
wrist and JFK's neck. It didn't penetrate far enough to imbed in the
leg.
tomnln
Some STILL There ! ! !
"bigdog" <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d5d2eca9-ba9b-4abe...@21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
yeuhd
> The object in JBC's leg wound went all the way down to the Bone.
>
> Some STILL There ! ! !
Nowhere do any of the doctors say that the object in the leg wound
went down to the bone.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0084a.htm
Dr. Shires, who operated on Governor Connally, told the HSCA pathology
panel that the X-rays of Connally showed a metallic fragment in the
femur bone, but granted that it could be only in the subcutaneous fat
of the thigh (i.e., the fat directly under the skin), or even that the
fragment could instead be a photographic artifact.
Dr. Reynolds, comparing the anterior-posterior X-ray of Connally's
femur bone with the lateral X-ray, wrote on November 29, 1963, that
"Films of the shaft of the left femur and of the left lower leg
reveals no fracture in this area. A tiny metallic fragment is seen in
the lower medial aspect of the thigh, in the subcutaneous fat … 8
millimeters [0.3 in] beneath the external surface of the skin".
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0085a.htm
"The [HSCA pathology] panel concurs with Dr. Reynolds' opinion that
the 2-millimeter density is a missile fragment that was just under the
skin and was not deep within the thigh in the femur bone, as described
in the Warren Commission Report. The panel believes that the density
in the femur bone was erroneously described and is an artifact in the
X-ray film and not a bullet fragment."
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0086b.htm
tomnln
"yeuhd" <needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f1d62067-ddc2-4154...@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 11, 9:08 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> The object in JBC's leg wound went all the way down to the Bone.
>
> Some STILL There ! ! !
Nowhere do any of the doctors say that the object in the leg wound
went down to the bone.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0084a.htm
Dr. Shires, who operated on Governor Connally, told the HSCA pathology
panel that the X-rays of Connally showed a metallic fragment in the
femur bone, but granted that it could be only in the subcutaneous fat
of the thigh (i.e., the fat directly under the skin), or even that the
fragment could instead be a photographic artifact.
Dr. Reynolds, comparing the anterior-posterior X-ray of Connally's
femur bone with the lateral X-ray, wrote on November 29, 1963, that
"Films of the shaft of the left femur and of the left lower leg
reveals no fracture in this area. A tiny metallic fragment is seen in
the lower medial aspect of the thigh, in the subcutaneous fat � 8
yeuhd
> Then, HOW did a fragment embed itself in his femur???
Did you even read what I posted? The fragment was not in the femur.
Walt
Hey Deuhy, wouldn't commonsense dictate that if there was a 2mm piece
of metal just under the skin the doctors could very easily removed it
rather then leave it there and rick lead poisoning.
Since they didn't try to remove that 2mm fragment it's obvious that it
probably was embedded in the femur.
Sam McClung
news:4b4ba304$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> The object in JBC's leg wound went all the way down to the Bone.
>
> Some STILL There ! ! !
or already grave robbed and in the skull and bones tomb at yale university
in connecticut
along with geronimo's skull
and maybe marie antoinette's corpse
Robert Harris
wrote:
>I agree - there just isn't any way a bullet can just fall out from a
>complete wound.
Please believe me. You have to watch the video, to know what happened.
This is not a "theory". It is really, really, what happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwqhf0MYio
Robert Harris
Robert Harris
>On Jan 11, 9:08 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>> The object in JBC's leg wound went all the way down to the Bone.
>>
>> Some STILL There ! ! !
>
>Nowhere do any of the doctors say that the object in the leg wound
>went down to the bone.
That doesn't matter.
The actual bullet that fell from his leg, was recovered by a nurse and
passed on to a Texas Hwy patrolmen. That fact was confirmed by every
person who handled the bullet prior to the FBI getting it, the guy who
found the hallway bullet, Gov Connally himself, and his top aide, the
Dallas district attorney, one nurse and the highway patrolman who took it
to the DPD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwqhf0MYio
Robert Harris