More Arrests Unaccounted For (Besides Files)
curtj...@webtv.net
no longer any factor in the case with many released or their arrest
records vanished from sight.
Charles V. Harrelson when arrested had R.D. Mathews' business card who was
later shown to be an associate of Jack Ruby and many of the Dallas
underground.
A young man in a three-piece suit and gloves told a researcher that he was
escorted from the TSBD to the Sheriff's Office by a Catholic priest. An
arresting officer stated, "Well, we got one of them." No 'record' of that
arrest.
Phil Willis stated that police escorted a man in a black leather jacket
and black gloves from the Dal-Tex Building. This could have been Larry
Florer who was arrested in the Dal-Tex Building and used the same albi as
another mafia man arrested in the building James Braden who was arrested
by Deputy Lummie Lewis, that they were looking for a phone. Roger Craig
also arrested a woman in the parking lot behind the grassy knoll and
handed her over to Lewis who somehow lost 'sight' of her.
The Dallas Times Herald on Nov. 22, 1963 that a man wearing horned-rimmed
glasses, a plaid coat, and a raincoat was arrested by a policeman after
Depository employees pointed him from a third-floor window. Suspect was
taken to the Sheriff's Dept. while members of the crowd shouted, "I hope
you die! and "I hope you burn!" (James Worrell described a man with horn
rimmed glasses fleeing from the back of the TSBD minutes after the
assassination at a a very hurrying pace. I believe Richard Carr stated he
saw a man with horn-rimmed glasses on the sixth floor before the shooting
and that suspect fleeing as well.
The same newspaper stated that a man was arrested minutes after the
assassination after police swarmed the railroad yards where "a man was
reported seen in that area carrying a rifle." This was three-weeks later
and the man was still supposedly being detained on "city charges", and was
still unidentified!
Jack Lawrence was later arrested in the afternoon of Nov. 22, after he had
borrowed a car the previous day from his job at the dealership (he never
sold a car) because he had a "heavy date", and came into the car
dealership after the shooting and puked with him sweating and mud on his
clothes. He stated he had to leave the car in the parking lot behind the
grassy knoll because of the traffic. He was reported an expert marksman in
the Air Force, and he was released the next day.
Any more?
CJ
Martin Shackelford
would have known R.D. Matthews. Ruby also knew Matthews because of his
contacts in the local underworld. This doesn't particularly link Ruby
and Harrelson, except that both had criminal ties in Dallas. As I
recall, Matthews was also best man at Beverly Oliver's wedding.
The young man you refer to was Larry Florer. He was intoxicated, and was
escorted, but not arrested, thus no record of arrest--but his identity
has been known for many years, and he appears in several photographs. He
also had horn-rimmed glasses, so you have mistakenly listed his as two
different mysterious arrestees. As noted, some assumed he was involve
simply because he was being escorted by police. You are mixing him up
with the guy in the leather jacket. Florer did not use the same alibi as
Eugene Brading (AKA Jim Braden). The guy in the leather jacket was also
questioned but not arrested, as they had no evidence he was involved.
The woman in the parking lot was also photographed. Penn Jones published
the photo.
What is your evidence that Jack Lawrence was arrested?
Martin
Gerry Simone (W)
scattered?
What is/are those sources?
<curtj...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1133899037....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
curtj...@webtv.net
Martin Shackelford wrote:
> Harrelson, like any Dixie Mafia guy with contacts in the Dallas area,
> would have known R.D. Matthews. Ruby also knew Matthews because of his
> contacts in the local underworld. This doesn't particularly link Ruby
> and Harrelson, except that both had criminal ties in Dallas. As I
> recall, Matthews was also best man at Beverly Oliver's wedding.
>
I would agree, but knowledge can be stored for potential links later.
> The young man you refer to was Larry Florer. He was intoxicated, and was
> escorted, but not arrested, thus no record of arrest--but his identity
> has been known for many years, and he appears in several photographs. He
> also had horn-rimmed glasses, so you have mistakenly listed his as two
> different mysterious arrestees. As noted, some assumed he was involve
> simply because he was being escorted by police. You are mixing him up
> with the guy in the leather jacket. Florer did not use the same alibi as
> Eugene Brading (AKA Jim Braden). The guy in the leather jacket was also
> questioned but not arrested, as they had no evidence he was involved.
>
I got the information from Marr's book, and like you said I think one or
some might have been detainees instead of full fledged arrestees. I
believe he has Florer stating that he was there looking for a phone, but I
don't have the book with me. Didn't Mac Wallace also have horn-rimmed
glasses? And I believe a sighting of the man getting into the Rambler
from one source had the man having horn-rimmed glasses. I do believe that
just in itself, could have provided a good lead or leads if followed up
on.
> The woman in the parking lot was also photographed. Penn Jones published
> the photo.
>
Any guesses at her identification?
> What is your evidence that Jack Lawrence was arrested?
>
Well, it was again in the Crossfire book. Being let out the next day,
according to Marr's would raise the question of a arrest vs. a
detain-and-let-go question. I really don't know police procedures that
exacting to hazard a guess. He did use the word arrest in the book,
though.
Martha
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:dn65b0$h...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> Harrelson, like any Dixie Mafia guy with contacts in the Dallas area,
> would have known R.D. Matthews. Ruby also knew Matthews because of his
> contacts in the local underworld. This doesn't particularly link Ruby
> and Harrelson, except that both had criminal ties in Dallas. As I
> recall, Matthews was also best man at Beverly Oliver's wedding.
>
> The young man you refer to was Larry Florer. He was intoxicated, and was
> escorted, but not arrested, thus no record of arrest--but his identity
> has been known for many years, and he appears in several photographs. He
> also had horn-rimmed glasses, so you have mistakenly listed his as two
> different mysterious arrestees. As noted, some assumed he was involve
> simply because he was being escorted by police. You are mixing him up
> with the guy in the leather jacket. Florer did not use the same alibi as
> Eugene Brading (AKA Jim Braden).
Hi Martin
Florer and Brading (Braden) both said they were looking for telephones on
third floor - Florer said it was Co. Records Building. From Braden's
description ""building across the street from the building that was
surrounded" which could have been Co. Records Building. So technically
both gave the same excuse. Braden was taken to the Sheriffs office and
interrogated. (19 H 469)
"At this time two offcer walked up and said for me to come with them.
These officers brought me to the County Sheriff's office." Florer (19 H
476)
Martha
Martha
"Gerry Simone (W)"
<addfornos...@addfornospambelmontconcreteaddfornospam.com> wrote in
message news:o-6dnY4w-_7...@look.ca...
Florer 19 H 476; Brading (Braden) 19 H 469; Lawrence 26 H 452-453,
687-688, 704
Martha
Martin Shackelford
Martin
tomnln
Brand New Condition for sale.
<curtj...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1133983745.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Martin Shackelford
guy seen exiting the TSBD rear entrance.
The man getting into the Rambler was reported by Deputy Roger Craig, who
said the man looked like Oswald. The driver looked like a Cuban. Neither
were reported wearing horn-rimmed glasses.
No idea who the woman in the picture is--doesn't match anyone I've seen
a photo of, and I've seen thousands related to this case.
Crossfire is valuable, but sometimes inaccurate. The Third Decade or The
Fourth Decade (same newletter) had two very good articles on Jack
Lawrence--the most detailed in the literature--but no arrest.
Martin
curtj...@webtv.net
> Yes, Mac Wallace wore horn-rimmed glasses--unlikely that Florer was the
> guy seen exiting the TSBD rear entrance.
> The man getting into the Rambler was reported by Deputy Roger Craig, who
> said the man looked like Oswald. The driver looked like a Cuban. Neither
> were reported wearing horn-rimmed glasses.
> No idea who the woman in the picture is--doesn't match anyone I've seen
> a photo of, and I've seen thousands related to this case.
> Crossfire is valuable, but sometimes inaccurate. The Third Decade or The
> Fourth Decade (same newletter) had two very good articles on Jack
> Lawrence--the most detailed in the literature--but no arrest.
>
> Martin
>
>
Yes, Marr's is one terrifc writer and researcher, but his forte is
sythnesizing the research of others and making logical 'conclusions'. He
can be innaccurate as you say. I know Craig made some ID'ing of the
passenger(s) in the Rambler, but I think others might have too, maybe the
one's that were trailing the vehicle in traffic, I'm not sure though but
would like to follow up on it.
I would think someone would have ventured a guess on that woman by now?!
She must look like somebody. I'm sure all of Jack Ruby's women weren't
accounted for...:).
CJ
Martin Shackelford
Building, where he was at one point doing business with an oil company
that had an office in the building.
Martin
curtj...@webtv.net
curtj...@webtv.net wrote:
> Martin Shackelford wrote:
> > Yes, Mac Wallace wore horn-rimmed glasses--unlikely that Florer was the
> > guy seen exiting the TSBD rear entrance.
> > The man getting into the Rambler was reported by Deputy Roger Craig, who
> > said the man looked like Oswald. The driver looked like a Cuban. Neither
> > were reported wearing horn-rimmed glasses.
> > No idea who the woman in the picture is--doesn't match anyone I've seen
> > a photo of, and I've seen thousands related to this case.
> > Crossfire is valuable, but sometimes inaccurate. The Third Decade or The
> > Fourth Decade (same newletter) had two very good articles on Jack
> > Lawrence--the most detailed in the literature--but no arrest.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
>
> Yes, Marr's is one terrifc writer and researcher, but his forte is
> sythnesizing the research of others and making logical 'conclusions'. He
> can be innaccurate as you say. I know Craig made some ID'ing of the
> passenger(s) in the Rambler, but I think others might have too, maybe the
> one's that were trailing the vehicle in traffic, I'm not sure though but
> would like to follow up on it.
>
It was Richard Carr, who said he saw a man with horn-rimmed glasses in the
sixth floor of the TSBD, and followed his movements afterwards, to Houston
and Record where he got into the Rambler on the passengers side. Carolyn
Walther said she saw a man in a sport's coat along with another (this one
had the rifle) around the sniper's window, but didn't see the face.
James Worrell said he saw a man with a sport's coat come out the rear of
the TSBD and was running, but could not see the face. Carr identified the
man in horned-rimmed glasses as having a tan sports coat. The Robinson
vehicle behind the Rambler could not positively ID the car entrant, other
than it was a white male.
CJ
Martha
Braden/Brading never mentioned doing anything other than looking for a
telephone in his Sheriff's Department statement of 11/22. I think what you
are referring to is the investigative reporter who wrote a paperback about
Braden/Brading. (right off hand I can't recall his name right now) What
tweaked my curiosity - Braden supposedly had checked in with his Federal
parole officer (investigative reporter interviewed this officer and his
story differed from Braden's) at the Federal Building. He then left to
find a cab (to take him back to the Cabana?) Because of the crowds viewing
the motorcade he could not find one and ended up in DP still looking. (If
I recall - the building in question is almost a mile from DP. ) You know
if he had walked another 5 or so he would have been at Cabana (if that was
his destination)
Of course - nothing of this is in the Sheriff's statement. And he did give
his alias to the DPD.
M
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:dnbdlf$2...@dispatch.concentric.net...
WakeU...@adelphia.net
> I know Craig made some ID'ing of the
>passenger(s) in the Rambler, but I think others might have too
Speaking of Roger Craig -- a former Dallas Police Officer of the
Year, until he got on the wrong side of his department superiors re
assassination-related issues -- in my view he will go down in history,
for all the hell the Dallas police department put him through after
the assassination because he held tight to what he himself witnessed
in Dealey Plaza and later at police headquarters -- as a true American
hero. May he rest in peace.
************************************************************************
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Martin Shackelford
Doubt, published in 1970.
Martin
curtj...@webtv.net
Thanks for cites, Martha!
Gerry Simone (W)
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@concentric.net> wrote in message
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Gerry Simone (W)
"Martha" <ma...@comteck.com> wrote in message
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