Wong Bah Dahn
Ian McDowell
<Ruggg...@powwowmail.com> wrote:
>My wife translated it for me, and said it literally means "turtle's eggs."
>That didn't sound too bad to me... I've been called worse than "turtle
>eggs"... ...in this NG in fact.
This may be related to the practice of caricaturing someone as a turtle --
i.e., the sketch the young Lesley Cheung character does of his sifu in THE
BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR. I assume it's a huge insult to compare someone to
a turtle.
Ian
mc99
"Wong Eight Egg". It is used to insinuate someone as a
fool, similar to calling someone a "Simple Simon" or a Bozo.
It has been in use for quite a long time and I don't think
it has anything to do with turtles, unless some called you a
"Gwai Lo", or "Turtle Man", now those are fight words.
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mc99
traditional Chinese operas.
Tetsuo Takagi
An interesting quote from a book on the Chinese language about efforts in
the early twentieth century to standardize the various forms of spoken
Chinese at a conference called in 1913:
" Few of the delegates at the 1913 conference on pronunciation seem to
have had any idea of what they were up against. The negotiations were
marked by frustratingly naive arguments. ... [b]ut if linguistic knowledge
was in short supply, commitment to position was not. Passion were hot,
and frustrations grew. Finally, after months of no progress, Wang Zhao,
the leader of the Mandarin faction, called for a new system of voting in
which each province will have one and only one vote, knowing full well
that the numerically superior Mandarin-speaking area would then
automatically dominate. Then, as tempers flared, Wang Rongbao, one of the
leaders of the Southern faction, happened to use the colloquial Shanghai
expression for 'ricksha', wangbo ts'o. Wang Zhao misheard it for the
Mandarin curse wangba dan 'son of a bitch (literally, turtle's egg)' and
flew into a rage. He bared his arms and attacked Wang Rongbao, chasing
him out of the assembly hall. Wang Rongbao never returned to the
meetings. Wang Zhao's suggestion to change the voting procedure was
adopted, and after three months of bitter struggling, the Mandarin faction
had its way. The conference adopted a resolution recommending that the
sounds of Mandarin become the national standard."
From:
Ramsey, S. Robert, "The Languages of China", Princeton University Press,
1987 pp.7-8.
What lessons that can be learned from this story may be that the
non-Chinese who are learning Chinese might take a detached stance toward
the debates in the north-south linguistic cleavage, which seem to have
been traditionally fought at a not-so-high level of academic substance or
dignity.
- end -
Oneiros
Bearing in mind that the expression is spoken written Chinese, not spoken
colloquial Chinese. However, those more learned can correct me, since when
did "Wong Bah" mean turtle? Surely it's "Gwai"? Boy Cantonese has sure
changed since I last spoke it...
Hoping that has confused the issue,
Che (definitely not a Gwai Gung!)
Wnspx
simply 'egg of turtle'. But there is a special
meaning here for turtle. Turtle is a word
reserved for somebody who is kept without knowledge of his or her spouse secret
love with somebody else. This is usually regarded a big shame in Chinese
culture.
So the term then implies something like
'son of bitch' or 'egg of loser', which is
a double curse twice, I guess. But I believe it is so commonly used that it
doesn't really convey so much insult, especially when used in joking context.
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Daniel K. Shaw
>
>Wong Bah Dahn!
>
>
>I hear this curse all the time in the Mainland (Mandarin) dramas. Usually
>somebody is beating somebody else on the head, and calling him "wong bah
>dahn!"
>
>My wife translated it for me, and said it literally means "turtle's eggs."
>That didn't sound too bad to me... I've been called worse than "turtle
>eggs"... ...in this NG in fact.
>
>turtle's ass or something. I'm sure she's right, but it doesn't sound like
>it explains the whole story. Why would such a weak sounding insult become so
>commonplace? Or maybe it sounds stronger in their culture?
>
>Any other Chinese natives out there have another explanation?
>
>
Your wife came up with the correct literal translation, but her explanation of
the cultural meaning doesn't jibe with what what I've read (or what my
Mainland Chinese parents have told me).
For what it's worth: According to my parents, calling a man a turtle is
equivalent to calling him a cuckold. Hence, a turtle's egg would then be
the son of a cuckold -- in English, a bastard (illegitimate child).
Why is a turtle the symbol for a cuckold? What I've read is that turtles were
believed long ago to be able to conceive by (impure) thought alone -- which
meant that the parentage of a turtle was always in doubt.
Dan Shaw
Daniel K. Shaw
>"Wong Bah Dahn" is a proper name that translate literally to
>"Wong Eight Egg". It is used to insinuate someone as a
>fool, similar to calling someone a "Simple Simon" or a Bozo.
>
>It has been in use for quite a long time and I don't think
>it has anything to do with turtles, unless some called you a
>"Gwai Lo", or "Turtle Man", now those are fight words.
Wong Eight Egg? That is the best spoonerism I've read in a long time. :-)
If your parents told you that, they were shielding your sensibilities...
Dan Shaw
Daniel K. Shaw
FINALLY, someone hits the nail on the head.
Dan Shaw
mc99
"chopstickism". The intentions were noble but the outcome
leaves something to be desired.
-----
<i>Wong Eight Egg? That is the best spoonerism I've read in
a long time. :-)
If your parents told you that, they were shielding your
sensibilities...
Dan Shaw </i>
ah_wo...@my-deja.com
hello, i'm new to deja. and found it entertaining and educational on the
meaning of 'wang ba daan'. in cantonese a pimp is called a 'gwai gung'
which kind of translates to a male turtle. any correlation to 'wang ba daan'
here?
wyling sun
"TheRuggedOne" <Ruggg...@powwowmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure my wife understood the meaning of the insult, she's from Mainland
> China herself. She just gave me the literal translation, and didn't explain
> the rest as well as WNSPX did. Now I, and I think everyone else in this NG,
> understand it better.
>
> Just as an added note, I saw it used again today as I re-watched GOG's
> Return. I think they were speaking Mandarin in those scenes in Mainland
> China. The police captain said "Wong Bah Dahn" when the national security
> officer used his chi power to set the captain's hat on fire. It was
> translated as "Damn You."
>
> I've also seen it tranlated as "Son of a bitch." I guess if tth
e tranlator's
> wrote "turtle eggs!" we'd all be scratching our heads.
hello everyone, i'm new to deja. and found it entertaining reading on the
meaning of wang ba daan. just a note that a pimp in cantonese is called
'gwai gung' which probably translates to male turtle. what is the relation
to that and wang ba daan?
>
> Daniel K. Shaw wrote in message <0Yfy3.78367>
> >For what it's worth: According to my parents, calling a man a turtle is
> >equivalent to calling him a cuckold. Hence, a turtle's egg would then be
> >the son of a cuckold -- in English, a bastard (illegitimate child).
> >
> >Why is a turtle the symbol for a cuckold? What I've read is that turtles
> were
> >believed long ago to be able to conceive by (impure) thought alone -- which
> >meant that the parentage of a turtle was always in doubt.
> >
> >Dan Shaw
>
>
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Daniel K. Shaw
>I'm sure my wife understood the meaning of the insult, she's from Mainland
>China herself. She just gave me the literal translation, and didn't explain
>the rest as well as WNSPX did. Now I, and I think everyone else in this NG,
>understand it better.
>
>Just as an added note, I saw it used again today as I re-watched GOG's
>Return. I think they were speaking Mandarin in those scenes in Mainland
>China. The police captain said "Wong Bah Dahn" when the national security
>officer used his chi power to set the captain's hat on fire. It was
>translated as "Damn You."
>
>wrote "turtle eggs!" we'd all be scratching our heads.
It's one of those curses that varies in severity depending upon how you say it
-- it can be used jokingly among friends, or as fighting words to your enemy.
That would be one reason to translate it differently in different movies.
My parents generally don't use foul language, but they do use "turtle's egg"
occasionally, which gives you a clue.
Dan Shaw
DaleWBerry
Jun Zhao
"Daniel K. Shaw" wrote:
> In article <7q91hg$oc4$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "TheRuggedOne" <Ruggg...@powwowmail.com> wrote:
> >Along the lines of Hum Ga Chan....
> >
> >Wong Bah Dahn!
> >
> >
> >I hear this curse all the time in the Mainland (Mandarin) dramas. Usually
> >somebody is beating somebody else on the head, and calling him "wong bah
> >dahn!"
> >
> >My wife translated it for me, and said it literally means "turtle's eggs."
> >That didn't sound too bad to me... I've been called worse than "turtle
> >eggs"... ...in this NG in fact.
> >
> >She said it implies that someone is so low that it's like they came out of a
> >turtle's ass or something. I'm sure she's right, but it doesn't sound like
> >it explains the whole story. Why would such a weak sounding insult become so
> >commonplace? Or maybe it sounds stronger in their culture?
> >
> >Any other Chinese natives out there have another explanation?
> >
> >
>
> Your wife came up with the correct literal translation, but her explanation of
> the cultural meaning doesn't jibe with what what I've read (or what my
> Mainland Chinese parents have told me).
>
shells
Or some people say a longer version, Wu Gui Wang Ba Dan (your pronouciation
spelling is wrong if it's in Chinese), meaning Turtle's Eggs too, just a
longer one.
Then there are some who would say, Gui Sun Zi, meaning that scolded person
is the grandson of a turtle.
Then again, Chinese seems to like to joke around with Eggs, there's another
Chou Ji Dan, meaning rotten Chicken eggs, it's a milder way of scolding.
But I really have no idea how this term came up.
Jun Zhao wrote in message <37D1C192...@prodigy.net>...