Vonnie Leigh (my sister)
Barbara's Cat
Vonnie Leigh
Humanity would never come to know
all the beauty you had to give it,
for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
took your life before you could live it.
Children too free for the dangers out there,
you were a mother who took care of me,
and would feed us whatever you could find.
You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
You would be proud of the man I became,
living life by the yard rules you taught me --
always help those who can't help themselves
and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
Though days go by and my memory fails,
thoughts of you are still alive within me.
And I hope through me some will come to know
all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
-- Cat
Bindi
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
Hi, Mr. Cat.
This is a walking cliche. imo.
>
> Vonnie Leigh
>
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
cliche.
> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> took your life before you could live it.
This is abstract to me. Last line is cliche.
>
> Children too free for the dangers out there,
> you were a mother who took care of me,
> and would feed us whatever you could find.
> You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
eaten. Eaten what?
This is confusing.
From the intro, Vonnie Leigh is 5/6 years old
and now a mother?
I know what you are getting at but it is not clear.
>
> You would be proud of the man I became,
cliche.
> living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
Line 4 comes from left field. I can't see how it ties in to what
comes before. It probably makes sense to you the writer
but unless you show the reader the reason for its being there
we have no idea.
>
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
big cliche.
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
cliche.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
> all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
cliche.
>
> -- Cat
If you want the reader to feel anything about Vonnie Leigh
then you have to show us, not tell us.
Pick one thing about her, describe it in your own words
and let us see for ourselves why she is important to you.
HTH.
--
--
Bindi
(remove 'earwigs' to reply)
........................................................................
Do not mess with dragons
for you are crunchy
and taste good
with ketchup!
-------------------------
www.slingshot.to/Bindi
-------------------------
.........................................................................
"I believe he was killed by a dragon m'lord.
Notice the tell-tale marks around the stump of his neck
and the charred nature of the corpse."
........................................................................
__/\__
__|_,-~~-,|__
__|_-~ ~-|__
l__l |_-~ ,-- \ |
/- -\ /\/\/\/\ _- / / / \
|o o|~~~___ / / | _/ \
~~ / /_,,,-----'~~~ / / / /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara's Cat
"Bindi" (Bin...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
> Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Hi, Mr. Cat.
> This is a walking cliche. imo.
True. This seems to be my current style. But, I'm working on it.
Thanks for reading it anyway. (More comments below).
>
>
> >
> > Vonnie Leigh
> >
> > Humanity would never come to know
> > all the beauty you had to give it,
>
> cliche.
>
> > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > took your life before you could live it.
>
> This is abstract to me. Last line is cliche.
I need to change L3 so you will understand what she ate. This is the way I
remember her eating the rosary beads (a poisonous berry that is red with a
black dot), pushing them through her lips instead of opening her mouth.
>
> >
> > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > you were a mother who took care of me,
> > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> eaten. Eaten what?
The berries. I ate them too, but I survived because I swallowed them whole
instead of chewing them (according to my father).
> This is confusing.
> From the intro, Vonnie Leigh is 5/6 years old
> and now a mother?
> I know what you are getting at but it is not clear.
My sister always acted like a mother to me and the other children.
Our real mother was not a good one and left us alone way too often.
>
> >
> > You would be proud of the man I became,
>
> cliche.
>
> > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > always help those who can't help themselves
> > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
L3 means she wanted me to help the other (younger) children.
L4 means she told me not to be afraid of bugs (as I was).
>
> Line 4 comes from left field. I can't see how it ties in to what
> comes before. It probably makes sense to you the writer
> but unless you show the reader the reason for its being there
> we have no idea.
>
> >
> > Though days go by and my memory fails,
>
> big cliche.
>
> > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
>
> cliche.
>
> > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> cliche.
>
> >
> > -- Cat
>
> If you want the reader to feel anything about Vonnie Leigh
> then you have to show us, not tell us.
> Pick one thing about her, describe it in your own words
> and let us see for ourselves why she is important to you.
> HTH.
>
>
> --
> --
> Bindi
> (remove 'earwigs' to reply)
BTW, I went to your web still. Nicely done. Lots of good stuff. When I get
back home at the end of the week I plan on spending more time there.
Well, I'm off to Miami now (yuck).
Bindi
> In article <bklo1j$32mms$1...@ID-66859.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Bindi" (Bin...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
>> Barbara's Cat wrote:
>>> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>>
>> Hi, Mr. Cat.
>> This is a walking cliche. imo.
>
> True. This seems to be my current style. But, I'm working on it.
> Thanks for reading it anyway. (More comments below).
>
Hi, Mr. Cat.
You're welcome.
I am following you down.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Vonnie Leigh
>>>
>>> Humanity would never come to know
>>> all the beauty you had to give it,
>>
>> cliche.
>>
>>> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
>>> took your life before you could live it.
>>
>> This is abstract to me. Last line is cliche.
>
> I need to change L3 so you will understand what she ate. This is the
> way I remember her eating the rosary beads (a poisonous berry that is
> red with a black dot), pushing them through her lips instead of
> opening her mouth.
Yep. As is it, I am left wondering why kissing rosary beads would kill you.
Poetry is all in the details. You don't have to make it totally clear or
lead the reader
but you have to have enough detail so that the reader, can at least, come
away
with some idea of your message. imo.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Children too free for the dangers out there,
>>> you were a mother who took care of me,
>>> and would feed us whatever you could find.
>>> You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>>
>> eaten. Eaten what?
>
> The berries. I ate them too, but I survived because I swallowed them
> whole instead of chewing them (according to my father).
Then put it in the poem. It is hard to get your message across if you leave
the details in your head.
From what the poem has told me so far, I only have an image of a child
kissing rosary beads.
There was no detail or description to show me that it was poison berries she
chewed and swallowed
that was the cause of her death.
>
>> This is confusing.
>> From the intro, Vonnie Leigh is 5/6 years old
>> and now a mother?
>> I know what you are getting at but it is not clear.
>
> My sister always acted like a mother to me and the other children.
> Our real mother was not a good one and left us alone way too often.
Ok. So show it in the poem.
>
>>
>>>
>>> You would be proud of the man I became,
>>
>> cliche.
>>
>>> living life by the yard rules you taught me --
>>> always help those who can't help themselves
>>> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> L3 means she wanted me to help the other (younger) children.
Yes, but find another way to show it. You are being lazy and just going for
the easy cliches.
There is no emotion in this poem and there should be because of the subject.
> L4 means she told me not to be afraid of bugs (as I was).
You didn't show any of this to your reader. You left the details in your
head.
>
>>
>> Line 4 comes from left field. I can't see how it ties in to what
>> comes before. It probably makes sense to you the writer
>> but unless you show the reader the reason for its being there
>> we have no idea.
>>
>>>
>>> Though days go by and my memory fails,
>>
>> big cliche.
>>
>>> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
>>
>> cliche.
>>
>>> And I hope through me some will come to know
>>> all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>>
>> cliche.
>>
>>>
>>> -- Cat
>>
>> If you want the reader to feel anything about Vonnie Leigh
>> then you have to show us, not tell us.
>> Pick one thing about her, describe it in your own words
>> and let us see for ourselves why she is important to you.
>> HTH.
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Bindi
>> (remove 'earwigs' to reply)
>
> BTW, I went to your web still. Nicely done. Lots of good stuff. When
> I get back home at the end of the week I plan on spending more time
> there.
Thank you! It is a work in progress. One I enjoy playing with.
>
> Well, I'm off to Miami now (yuck).
I live in paradise!
It is 27C, a warm breeze and I couldn't throw anything far enough to reach a
neighbors fence.
Have fun!
>
--
--
Bindi
(remove 'earwigs' to reply)
........................................................................
Do not mess with dragons
for you are crunchy
and taste good
with ketchup!
-------------------------
www.slingshot.to/Bindi
-------------------------
.........................................................................
"I believe he was killed by a dragon m'lord.
Notice the tell-tale marks around the stump of his neck
and the charred nature of the corpse."
........................................................................
__/\__
__|_,-~~-,|__
__|_-~ ~-|__
l__l |_-~ ,-- \ |
/- -\ /\/\/\/\ _- / / / \
|o o|~~~___ / / | _/ \
~~ / /_,,,-----'~~~ / / / /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
( I will shorten this soon. He just needed to stretch his legs for a while)
Cynthia A Moyer
Howdy, Cat-
For myself, I like "cyn", jes' fine, but y'all can call me "Cynthia"
if'n y'prefer. I'm meted to please ya! :-) ;-) :-)
I read you're in Miami: remain calm.
Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:29:12 GMT; alt.arts.poetry.comments
Msg-ID:<MPG.19d7f0966...@news.verizon.net>;
Barbara's Cat <c...@127.0.0.1> psoted:
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Vonnie Leigh
Right, *yikes* . . . subject matter on radar.
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
For a smalltown eulogy, no problems. :-)
> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> took your life before you could live it.
IMO: ^here is your poem^/storyline; it could be nice to get to read
more than two linesworth of it.
Having read Bindi's c&c, and your reply to her, the point I'd like to
make is that you'll need a Macromedia Flash image-series to grant An
Audience access to one blip of the personal content that makes this
poem tell a coherent story [to you, The Author]. An Audience {don't
listen to Kerouac, he's dead} is frustratingly dense, and Written
Points get their momentum from the launchpad. For one example of a
launchpad, take a newspaper: your poem appears in the obits; what is
its position on the page; if it's a banner headline, tell me the name
of the newspaper; if I hear you say "New York Herald" [defunct],
f'rinstance, that'll give me as good an idea of ~where the problem
roots~ as if you were to name, oh, The Mayberry Mercury. Perspective.
I'm aiming for succinct, not gruff:
> Children too free for the dangers out there,
(-: An image too vague for The Reader Over Here. ;-)
Makes me think there oughta be a challenge what gives us "The bride
wore white" for an opener. I'd ~lurve~ t'know how various AAPCians
wriggle der widdle ways away from *that'un*, myself cyncluded. ;-D
As for your L5/S2:L1, I know what "Children" are . . . like I know
what a "bride" is . . . "too free" . . . "[*]the[*] dangers".
Is it so terrible of me to want *more* than *vague* from you? :-)
{yeah, right, like you know who /I/ am @%^}
> you were a mother who took care of me,
> and would feed us whatever you could find.
Three lines, one sentence. I think there's {*ouch*, I've kinked a
synapse . . . s'ok, I'll live} something unusual in your use of "us"
at the tail-end of the same data-packet as "Children" {how many? I
can't see} coupled to "you [&] me" {OK, two "Children", fine, fine}
via "were" and "would" [verbs, true, but not especially *active*
verbs; this is getting pedantic] . . . I've got it: "you [...] feed
us" sounds like at least three [warm bodies] "Children", no? two to
comprise the "us" the "you" [making three] gets to "feed"?
It's an awkward one; I appreciate the dilemma.
I'll try to address it more verbosely if needs be, but I'm
under-proficient when it comes to syntaxing parses. :-) ;-D :-)
I use the old "I know it when I see it" pr0nograffi [non-]definition.
Too bad all's I can call it is un[der]grammatical, on account of my
philosophy that prefers accusations be verifiable; sorry. :-(
> You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
I like ["ate"] the vernacularism, but not all Readers will.
But I exaggerated a moment ago, when I claimed that your storyline is
trapped inside only two lines; it's here, too, sorta, but only 'cuz I
read your reply to {*Bindi!*} Bindi, in which you synopsize.
~Trust me~, now that I know what story you're telling, I can
understand how the language you've used in this poem provides you
with a perception of adequate transmission of content. :-)
> You would be proud of the man I became,
> living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
Cute twist on "yard rules", in a revised setting; I'm giving
particular attention to L9/S3:L1 (-: Have you heard the one about
"Show, don't tell", yet, Cat? :-) 'cuz it's one thing to permit The
Voice of a juvenile character [even in indirect quotation] to sound
childish, but if The Narrator's Voice stays too young [a naïve writer
often "sounds young", independent of age] for too long without good
reason, I know one Gentle Reader who's liable to toddle off in search
of [some Milne] This Poem's Competition, so don't get ~too cute~.
Ach! afore I ferggit: dactyls "get ~too cute~" *real easy*!
L9/S3:L1 ain't nuthin but dactyl.
I would begin by choosing the /rhythm/ for what The Narrator needs
upon which to build your characterization, and "lickety-splickety
shickety-brickety" would be excellent in a [self-]satire.
Cat, if you don't know what you've written, you won't understand why
Some Readers ~have problems~ with it. If, f'rinstance, you force me
to listen to [higgledy-piggledy] a nursery rhyme whilst your Narrator
is in the throes of ~Communicating Something Big~, I get irked.
Mebbe I like poetry too much if I can get irked about it.
{*grumble* . . . but I enjoy Burns @%^}
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
> all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> -- Cat
1st thoughts: {*Bindi!*;} cliché, cliché, cliché, cliché; you've had
some feedback {*Bindi!*} on this already.
2nd thoughts: the proof for the final two lines is entirely
[un]supported by L9/S3:L1 (-: "Show don't tell." :-). Ruminations on
The Narrator's ~self-importance~ distract {me} one too forcefully for
"beauty" to rise up and oust them, at this stage. I wonder how anyone
would /show/ "the man I became" *in a poem* with enough clarity to
improve A Reader's shot at getting as much "beauty" out of the
experience as The Author intends? That carefully staged demonstration
of "the man I became" should [probably?] volunteer suggestions [by
association] for subsequent clarification [word-choice] of "beauty".
Final thoughts: rhyme scheme development; two 'ivvitses' and a slew
of '[m]eeeees'; I'd like to be sure I wouldn't be shouted down on a
matter of personal preference [IMO: not] ere I meddle, but My Ear is
undersatisfied by the choices you've made.
Had "Vonnie Leigh" been somebody's Head of State, different poems
would be written about her by different poets. In theory (-: and if
we changed that date ;-), this poem might wind up among them. Were I
to read a dozen poems about "Vonnie Leigh", including this one, I
might not need /this/ poem to supply me with tons of detail on
account of The [Media] Competition /sharing/ the workload.
So, things about which Readers have been educated make sense to Them.
Which returns me to the last word of my first long-winded paragraph
of this post: "Perspective."
Right now, The Author's got it, but The Readers don't.
Of course, anyone who has ever [insert typical human traumalist] had
someone close die has a wealth of painful experiences on-call.
I've decided that just because a poem reminds me of something else
that happened to /me/ to wrench /my/ psyche, 1) any ~bond~ I fancy I
feel with The Author is illusory [in cases where the poem didn't do
any more work than my life already has], and I could be reminded of
the same events by a TV spot, ergo, I feel manipulated, because 2) I
might not even be associating the same sort of ~trauma~ from my own
warehouse in comparison to The Author's Intent; when there's too
little |literal evidence| to justify an experience emulated via
linguistic artifact, you don't reach Readers, you reach Daydreamers.
{holee cow! lookit them anagrams in "DaydREAmERS" @%^}
This act has taken long enough for me to get together to allow Bindi
{*Bindi!*} another reply. It's like there's an echo in AAPC, no?
Sometimes one tends to get similar comments from independent sources.
I've seen some posters dismiss the same comments a half-dozen times.
There's "yard rules", and then there's "yard rules", as you know.
Tell me I'm no fun, and I'll leave you alone, but I like doing c&c.
And I think that if there are any Little Poems that deserve all the
TLC a good revision-process can generate, it's personal tributes.
Thank you for posting, Cat; be well.
\\//_ - cyn
--
"Mind communicates with mind through a veil, and the result
is at best dullness, and at worst misunderstanding."
H.W. Fowler
Barbara's Cat
"Cynthia A Moyer" (m...@privacy.net) wrote ...
>
> Howdy, Cat-
>
> For myself, I like "cyn", jes' fine, but y'all can call me "Cynthia"
> if'n y'prefer. I'm meted to please ya! :-) ;-) :-)
>
> I read you're in Miami: remain calm.
>
> Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:29:12 GMT; alt.arts.poetry.comments
> Msg-ID:<MPG.19d7f0966...@news.verizon.net>;
> Barbara's Cat <c...@127.0.0.1> psoted:
>
> > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> >
> > Vonnie Leigh
[ SNIPPED IT (FOR NOW) TO SHORTEN THE MESSAGE ]
> Tell me I'm no fun, and I'll leave you alone, but I like doing c&c.
>
> And I think that if there are any Little Poems that deserve all the
> TLC a good revision-process can generate, it's personal tributes.
>
> Thank you for posting, Cat; be well.
>
> \\//_ - cyn
>
Hi cyn,
Thank you for all your GREAT input. It is a lot for me to absorb right now,
as I just got home and am tired from my long drive from Miami. However, I am
going to print and read your comments tomorrow, and if you do not mind, I
would like to get back to you on Saturday (hopefully) with my reply. BTW, do
not leave me alone and C & C me anytime you wish. I need all the help I can
get. :-}
Cat. =/\= <-- (Permission to come aboard.)
mathieu
d'être un gros fils de pute rancuneux
t.(*).m
~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
...
>
> BTW, do
> not leave me alone and C & C me anytime you wish. I need all the help I can
> get.
An open humble attitude and good social skills is one approach.
Then too, you can use a gun, and simply blow away joints until
the poets reveal their secrets.
They all talk eventually.
:-)
--
Tom Bishop - (coordinator) "Poets for Babies"
http://PoetsForBabies.Here.Nu
Cynthia A Moyer
Msg-ID:<MPG.19dd7524b...@news.verizon.net>;
Barbara's Cat <c...@127.0.0.1> psoted:
> In article <1g00nvce48uvnvb68...@4ax.com>,
> "Cynthia A Moyer" (m...@privacy.net) wrote ...
> >
> > Howdy, Cat-
> >
> > For myself, I like "cyn", jes' fine, but y'all can call me "Cynthia"
> > if'n y'prefer. I'm meted to please ya! :-) ;-) :-)
> >
> > I read you're in Miami: remain calm.
> >
> > Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:29:12 GMT; alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > Msg-ID:<MPG.19d7f0966...@news.verizon.net>;
> > Barbara's Cat <c...@127.0.0.1> psoted:
> >
> > > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> > >
> > > Vonnie Leigh
>
> [ SNIPPED IT (FOR NOW) TO SHORTEN THE MESSAGE ]
(-: happens all the time; I like [variations on] "<snip>" :-)
<TLCsnipcynsig>
>
> Hi cyn,
Hi, Cat.
> Thank you for all your GREAT input.
I'm always relieved when it goes over well. :-) ;-) :-)
> It is a lot for me to absorb right now,
> as I just got home and am tired from my long drive from Miami. However, I am
> going to print and read your comments tomorrow, and if you do not mind, I
> would like to get back to you on Saturday (hopefully) with my reply.
By all means, take your time. I've already swamped my c&c-WIPlist.
I'm still only midway through [Bindi's] "The Rabbiters". :-(
> BTW, do not leave me alone and C & C me anytime you wish. I need all the help
> I can get. :-}
There's a lot I get out of my part of the process, but thanks, again.
> Cat. =/\= <-- (Permission to come aboard.)
(-: heh, *Bindi!* when did we get a SHIP? ;-)
This is a serious matter, as "=/\=" is Bindi's own ASCII creation.
You might have to come up with a new design, Cat, one of your own.
I'm not really the one to say. :-)
\\//_ - cyn
--
«"Both Picasso and T.S. Eliot are credited with saying, 'Good artists
borrow, great artists steal,'" notes music critic Peter Gorman.
"Credit it to Picasso and it comes across as bravado, a declaration
that great art comes from those who appropriate whatever they damn
well please. Credit the quote to Eliot and it seems more like word
play; to borrow is to imitate and give back, to steal is to make it
one's own."»
R. Brezsny
Barbara's Cat
Head held low, I ask for forgiveness from Bindi.
I understand and respect copyright of ASCII art.
Well, I'm off to work now (I'm running late).
Cat (New insignia coming soon to a newsgroup near you!)
t____.o.____m
~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
...
>
Don't be a moron. (<--- just friendly advice)
> I understand and respect copyright of ASCII art.
There is no such fucking thing, are you daft? :-)
Not even quotations are copyrightable, let alone a few letters.
You might be thinking of trademark, but not really for ASCII art,
for which trademarks don't apply.
> Well, I'm off to work now (I'm running late).
Too much information.
>
> Cat (New insignia coming soon to a newsgroup near you!)
Whatever.
Been nice chatting.
mathieu
surtout venant de la part d'un crétin boutonneux aussi abyssal.
Barbara's Cat
"t____.o.____m" (Kmn...@0ananma.com) wrote ...
First: I will say whatever I want to whomever I want in any manner I chose,
just as you do.
YOU should not be such a moron. (<--- just friendly advice)
Second: I know Bindi does not have a copyright on the =/\= symbol
(TrekGuide.com has been using the symbol for a several years). I said
"copyright" out of respect (and with a touch of humor) for Bindi wanting to
use the symbol as her own personal insignia in this newsgroup (or any
newsgroup, as far as I am concerned).
I have no problem showing polite respect for someone, as you obviously do.
BTW, there is a hell-of-a-lot of copyrighted ASCII art out there.
Finally: I was not "chatting" with you and have no desire to do so. Most of
the time, when I see a post with your "name" (whatever it might be at that
moment), I delete it. I do this because, after reading your posts in the
past, I have found that the majority of the time what you say has very little
value. The only reason I read this one is that it was address to me, which I
will now avoid doing in the future.
No reply is necessary. (This is a futile statement as I know you will,
because you cannot resist acting like an uncontrollable child in an
elementary school classroom, making fart noises with your armpits.)
Cat (That's Mr. Cat to you, moron.)
mathieu
un de mes messages où je disais précisément cela.
mathieu
baisé un vincent raciste.
Peter J Ross
alt.arts.poetry.comments:
>Don't be a moron.
Physician, heal thyself!
--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8
Smeeter #30
news:alt.fan.pjr
news:alt.alcatroll
Usenet Valhalla (Circle Three)
Alcatroll Labs Inc. (Executive Vice-President)
Remove CHUCK.LYSAGHT'S.SHRIVELLED.BALLS to reply.
"A mountain is something
You don't want to fuck with."
- Frank Zappa, the coolest dude in the whole world ever
T*****(_)*****M
...
>
> >Don't be a moron.
>
> Physician, heal thyself!
That's an old saw.
I thought you were a young man.
Peter J Ross
alt.arts.poetry.comments:
> On a poetic Friday in September
> ~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
>...
>>
>> I have no problem showing polite respect for someone, as you obviously do.
>
>Usenet creeps don't deserve it.
>Why should I bother, since I would prefer to be honest.
Barbara's Cat and I have had one or two rows, Tommy, but I think we
currently have a little respect for each other's opinions. You, on the
other hand, neither have opinions that can be respected nor respect
the opinions of others.
So we creeps (that's "we creeps" in the sense of "the whole world
except Little Tommy Bishop") win again.
>> BTW, there is a hell-of-a-lot of copyrighted ASCII art out there.
>
>Bullshit.
Try abusing the copyright and see what happens to you, Tomwit.
Peter J Ross
alt.arts.poetry.comments:
> On a poetic Friday in September
> ~~{ Peter J Ross }~~ anted with:
>...
>>
>> >Don't be a moron.
>>
>> Physician, heal thyself!
>
>That's an old saw.
>
>I thought you were a young man.
I thought you were a twelve-year-old trapped in a one-legged old man's
body.
Bindi
> In article <ih2db.2266$ph2...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
> "t____.o.____m" (Kmn...@0ananma.com) wrote ...
>> On a poetic Friday in September
>> ~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
(snip)
>
> Second: I know Bindi does not have a copyright on the =/\= symbol
> (TrekGuide.com has been using the symbol for a several years). I said
> "copyright" out of respect (and with a touch of humor) for Bindi
> wanting to use the symbol as her own personal insignia in this
> newsgroup (or any newsgroup, as far as I am concerned).
Hi, Mr. Cat!
I didn't know about TrekGuide.com before now, nice site!
I came up with =/\= one night when I was playing with my keyboard
a long time ago. ( 4/5 years? not sure)
It just goes to show that nothing is new any more!
Thank you.
Bindi.
-=!=- Tom Bishop -=!=-
"Peter J Ross" <p...@CHUCK.LYSAGHT'S.SHRIVELLED.BALLSmeow.org> wrote in message news:bl30s3.3...@gadfly.meow.org...
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:45:11 GMT, T____(.)____M wrote in
> alt.arts.poetry.comments:
>
> > On a poetic Friday in September
> > ~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
> >...
> >>
> >> I have no problem showing polite respect for someone, as you obviously do.
> >
> >Usenet creeps don't deserve it.
> >Why should I bother, since I would prefer to be honest.
>
> Barbara's Cat and I have had one or two rows, Tommy, but I think we
> currently have a little respect for each other's opinions. You, on the
> other hand, neither have opinions that can be respected nor respect
> the opinions of others.
You are a troll without any respect from me at all.
You are a failed loser.
>
> So we creeps (that's "we creeps" in the sense of "the whole world
> except Little Tommy Bishop") win again.
>
> >> BTW, there is a hell-of-a-lot of copyrighted ASCII art out there.
> >
> >Bullshit.
>
> Try abusing the copyright and see what happens to you, Tomwit.
What copyright, moron.
You are daft as lizard shit.
--
Tom Bishop -- http://Poetry.Here.Nu
"When it comes to a choice between two evils,
I always choose the one I haven't tried before."
-- Mae West
mathieu
Peter J Ross
alt.arts.poetry.comments:
>
>"Peter J Ross" <p...@CHUCK.LYSAGHT'S.SHRIVELLED.BALLSmeow.org> wrote in message news:bl30s3.3...@gadfly.meow.org...
>> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:45:11 GMT, T____(.)____M wrote in
>> alt.arts.poetry.comments:
>>
>> > On a poetic Friday in September
>> > ~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
>> >...
>> >>
>> >> I have no problem showing polite respect for someone, as you obviously do.
>> >
>> >Usenet creeps don't deserve it.
>> >Why should I bother, since I would prefer to be honest.
>>
>> Barbara's Cat and I have had one or two rows, Tommy, but I think we
>> currently have a little respect for each other's opinions. You, on the
>> other hand, neither have opinions that can be respected nor respect
>> the opinions of others.
>
>You are a troll without any respect from me at all.
>
>You are a failed loser.
I am so hurt by your devastating insults, Tommy.
>> So we creeps (that's "we creeps" in the sense of "the whole world
>> except Little Tommy Bishop") win again.
>>
>> >> BTW, there is a hell-of-a-lot of copyrighted ASCII art out there.
>> >
>> >Bullshit.
>>
>> Try abusing the copyright and see what happens to you, Tomwit.
>
>What copyright, moron.
The copyright you'll be sued for if you abuse it. Is that clear now?
>You are daft as lizard shit.
alt.flamenet lost a true hero by being spanked into oblivion before
you arrived.
T={^}=M
...
>
> alt.arts.poetry.comments:
>
> > On a poetic Friday in September
> > ~~{ Barbara's Cat }~~ anted with:
> >...
> >>
> >> I have no problem showing polite respect for someone, as you obviously do.
> >
> >Usenet creeps don't deserve it.
> >Why should I bother, since I would prefer to be honest.
>
> Barbara's Cat and I have had one or two rows, Tommy, but I think we
> currently have a little respect for each other's opinions. You, on the
> other hand, neither have opinions that can be respected nor respect
> the opinions of others.
>
> So we creeps (that's "we creeps" in the sense of "the whole world
> except Little Tommy Bishop") win again.
>
> >> BTW, there is a hell-of-a-lot of copyrighted ASCII art out there.
> >
> >Bullshit.
>
> Try abusing the copyright and see what happens to you, Tomwit.
asdj flkja sdfklj alk;sdjf lk;a jdsflk;j alk;sd jflk;a jsdflk jalk;sd fj
as df;laksdj flk;a jsdlf jalsd jflk;a jsdflk jasdf
a sdfasdfj ;la sjdfkl als;df lk;asd jflkaj sdfkl
Barbara's Cat
"Bindi" (Bindi84...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
>
[ Snipped them words right out of our way ]
> Hi, Mr. Cat!
> I didn't know about TrekGuide.com before now, nice site!
> I came up with =/\= one night when I was playing with my keyboard
> a long time ago. ( 4/5 years? not sure)
> It just goes to show that nothing is new any more!
> Thank you.
>
> Bindi.
>
Hi Bindi,
I hope you do not think I was being rude saying this, as that was not my
intent. My point to Mr. Bishop was that I will respect your wanting to use
this symbol as your personal insignia and I will treat it that way regardless
of my seeing it before. And I have no doubt that you had design it yourself
as it is a natural, yet still imaginative, use of ASCII characters to
represent a Star Fleet lieutenant's insignia (circa ST-TNG). ;-)
I know this conversation is way off topic for this newsgroup, but I am going
to talk about it with you anyway. I have watched Star Trek since it went into
syndication in the early seventies (I am showing my age now). And being a
semi-avid fan, your and cyn's use of the relating symbols made me feel like I
was "talking with friends." (I hope that came out right.)
While goofing off at work today, I tried designing a symbol of my own. This
is what I have so far (tell me if you like it):
I
+
(|) ]:-{>
|
It is suppose to represent the Terran Empire's "Spock" (the Spock from an
alternate universe that had a mustache and a goatee as seen in "Mirror,
Mirror" TOS eps33/pcode39). The first part is the Terran Empire's emblem
(Earth with a sword behind/through it) and the rest is Spock's face shown
sideways.
Well, all said and done with fun in mind. :-)
Cat
T=====$0$=====M
~~{ Peter J Ross }~~ anted with:
...
>
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:19:06 GMT, T*****(_)*****M wrote in
> alt.arts.poetry.comments:
>
> > On a poetic Friday in September
> > ~~{ Peter J Ross }~~ anted with:
> >...
> >>
> >> >Don't be a moron.
> >>
> >> Physician, heal thyself!
> >
> >That's an old saw.
> >
> >I thought you were a young man.
>
> I thought you were a twelve-year-old trapped in a one-legged old man's
> body.
>
> adsf; jasd f;laksd jf;lkajs df;lkajs dflkj a;lksdf jl;kasjdf
> asd f;asd jfl;ka sdlfk; alksdf jlkajs dflk;aj sdfa
> sdf lasdfj l;asdjf
Yes.
mathieu
Bindi
> In article <bl31b6$7fsjq$1...@ID-66859.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Bindi" (Bindi84...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
>>
>
> [ Snipped them words right out of our way ]
Thanks!
>
>> Hi, Mr. Cat!
>> I didn't know about TrekGuide.com before now, nice site!
>> I came up with =/\= one night when I was playing with my keyboard
>> a long time ago. ( 4/5 years? not sure)
>> It just goes to show that nothing is new any more!
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Bindi.
>>
>
> Hi Bindi,
>
> I hope you do not think I was being rude saying this, as that was not
> my intent. My point to Mr. Bishop was that I will respect your
> wanting to use this symbol as your personal insignia and I will treat
> it that way regardless of my seeing it before. And I have no doubt
> that you had design it yourself as it is a natural, yet still
> imaginative, use of ASCII characters to represent a Star Fleet
> lieutenant's insignia (circa ST-TNG). ;-)
Nope, it didn't come across as rude. I was surprised that I was not being
original!
To me it still looks closer to ST-Voyager's comm badge.
I could'nt get the angles right in ASCII with so few charactors but it was
close enough.
If I was doing ST-TNG I would have done something like this,
(-/\-)
>
> I know this conversation is way off topic for this newsgroup, but I
> am going to talk about it with you anyway. I have watched Star Trek
> since it went into syndication in the early seventies (I am showing
> my age now). And being a semi-avid fan, your and cyn's use of the
> relating symbols made me feel like I was "talking with friends." (I
> hope that came out right.)
I started watching it in the late 80s.
I am watching a Star Trek Original marathon at the moment!
The whole series back to back!
'He's dead, Jim.' :-)
I like ST-original and TNG but I am a big Voyager fan
and Enterprise doesn't interest me at all.
I am happy that you felt that way.
>
> While goofing off at work today, I tried designing a symbol of my
> own. This is what I have so far (tell me if you like it):
cool!
I like it!
>
> I
> +
> (|) ]:-{>
> |
>
> It is suppose to represent the Terran Empire's "Spock" (the Spock
> from an alternate universe that had a mustache and a goatee as seen
> in "Mirror, Mirror" TOS eps33/pcode39). The first part is the Terran
> Empire's emblem (Earth with a sword behind/through it) and the rest
> is Spock's face shown sideways.
I
+ \
(|) ( :-{>
| /
( He needed spockier ears! :-) )
>
> Well, all said and done with fun in mind. :-)
>
> Cat
ditto!
T...{@}...M
~~{ Peter J Ross }~~ anted with:
...
>
> >
> >What copyright, moron.
>
> The copyright you'll be sued for if you abuse it. Is that clear now?
I don't know what you are talking about.
You can't copyright: ~/&&/:-)
You are jabbering?
Barbara's Cat
"Bindi" (Bindi84...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
>
[ SNIPPED, sniff ]
> Nope, it didn't come across as rude. I was surprised that I was not being
> original!
> To me it still looks closer to ST-Voyager's comm badge.
> I could'nt get the angles right in ASCII with so few charactors but it was
> close enough.
> If I was doing ST-TNG I would have done something like this,
> (-/\-)
This -/\- (one bar) would be the insignia for an ensign. =/\= (two bars) is
for a lieutenant. An oval was used in TOS and the bars first appeared in TNG.
[ SNIPPED some more words, then sniffed again ]
>
> I started watching it in the late 80s.
> I am watching a Star Trek Original marathon at the moment!
> The whole series back to back!
> 'He's dead, Jim.' :-)
> I like ST-original and TNG but I am a big Voyager fan
> and Enterprise doesn't interest me at all.
> I am happy that you felt that way.
I enjoy all the series, though DS9 rather disappointed me.
[ Ain't gonna SNIP no more. Tired of crying for the lose of words. ]
> >
> > While goofing off at work today, I tried designing a symbol of my
> > own. This is what I have so far (tell me if you like it):
>
> cool!
> I like it!
>
> >
> > I
> > +
> > (|) ]:-{>
> > |
Spell checker messed it up. The "I" should have been an "I"
I
+
(|) ]:-{>
|
> >
> > It is suppose to represent the Terran Empire's "Spock" (the Spock
> > from an alternate universe that had a mustache and a goatee as seen
> > in "Mirror, Mirror" TOS eps33/pcode39). The first part is the Terran
> > Empire's emblem (Earth with a sword behind/through it) and the rest
> > is Spock's face shown sideways.
>
> I
> + \
> (|) ( :-{>
> | /
>
> ( He needed spockier ears! :-) )
The "]" was suppose to represent his short hair and ears. Oh, well.
Cat
Barbara's Cat
i
+
(|) ]:-{>
|
Barbara's Cat
"Cynthia A Moyer" (m...@privacy.net) wrote ...
>
> Howdy, Cat-
>
> For myself, I like "cyn", jes' fine, but y'all can call me "Cynthia"
> if'n y'prefer. I'm meted to please ya! :-) ;-) :-)
>
> I read you're in Miami: remain calm.
>
> Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:29:12 GMT; alt.arts.poetry.comments
> Msg-ID:<MPG.19d7f0966...@news.verizon.net>;
> Barbara's Cat <c...@127.0.0.1> psoted:
>
> > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> >
> > Vonnie Leigh
>
>
> > Humanity would never come to know
> > all the beauty you had to give it,
>
> For a smalltown eulogy, no problems. :-)
>
> > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
Maybe it would help by changing this line to:
for the rosary beads your hunger ate
or maybe:
for the poison-berries your hunger ate
Just some quick thoughts.
With all due respect and my understanding that this poem will remain "a
walking cliche," I'm going to leave the following line as is. I am somewhat
new to writing poetry, so for now I expect myself to write using poor
technique, style, grammar, etc. In a few months (or years!), I will come back
to poems such as this one and perhaps rewrite them.
> > took your life before you could live it.
>
> IMO: ^here is your poem^/storyline; it could be nice to get to read
> more than two linesworth of it.
>
> Having read Bindi's c&c, and your reply to her, the point I'd like to
> make is that you'll need a Macromedia Flash image-series to grant An
A photograph preceded the poem on the copies I gave or emailed to relatives
and friends, and as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words." Also,
relatives and friends know the whole story already, so to them the poem
contained no mysteries. I have (unwisely) posted the photograph in a separate
message for your viewing if you care to decode it.
> Audience access to one blip of the personal content that makes this
> poem tell a coherent story [to you, The Author]. An Audience {don't
> listen to Kerouac, he's dead} is frustratingly dense, and Written
> Points get their momentum from the launchpad. For one example of a
> launchpad, take a newspaper: your poem appears in the obits; what is
> its position on the page; if it's a banner headline, tell me the name
> of the newspaper; if I hear you say "New York Herald" [defunct],
> f'rinstance, that'll give me as good an idea of ~where the problem
> roots~ as if you were to name, oh, The Mayberry Mercury. Perspective.
>
> I'm aiming for succinct, not gruff:
Understood. Short sentences with explaining content, yet not sounding too
rough.
>
> > Children too free for the dangers out there,
>
> (-: An image too vague for The Reader Over Here. ;-)
>
> Makes me think there oughta be a challenge what gives us "The bride
> wore white" for an opener. I'd ~lurve~ t'know how various AAPCians
> wriggle der widdle ways away from *that'un*, myself cyncluded. ;-D
>
> As for your L5/S2:L1, I know what "Children" are . . . like I know
> what a "bride" is . . . "too free" . . . "[*]the[*] dangers".
>
> Is it so terrible of me to want *more* than *vague* from you? :-)
>
> {yeah, right, like you know who /I/ am @%^}
S2:L1 was meant to say my sister and I (and sometimes my two younger sisters,
which were not mentioned because they were not there on the day we ate the
berries) should not have been left alone (as we were many times) because we
were too young (Vonnie was 6 and I was 5) to know how to take care of and
protect ourselves. Yes, I am trying to say too much in that one sentence.
There needs to be more lines here. The whole poem needs more lines! I need to
break my bad habit of writing 4x4 (a redneck term?) line poems, as it always
seem to leave a lot of things unsaid. I'll work on that quirk of mine.
>
> > you were a mother who took care of me,
> > and would feed us whatever you could find.
>
> Three lines, one sentence. I think there's {*ouch*, I've kinked a
> synapse . . . s'ok, I'll live} something unusual in your use of "us"
> at the tail-end of the same data-packet as "Children" {how many? I
> can't see} coupled to "you [&] me" {OK, two "Children", fine, fine}
> via "were" and "would" [verbs, true, but not especially *active*
> verbs; this is getting pedantic] . . . I've got it: "you [...] feed
> us" sounds like at least three [warm bodies] "Children", no? two to
> comprise the "us" the "you" [making three] gets to "feed"?
>
> It's an awkward one; I appreciate the dilemma.
>
> I'll try to address it more verbosely if needs be, but I'm
> under-proficient when it comes to syntaxing parses. :-) ;-D :-)
>
> I use the old "I know it when I see it" pr0nograffi [non-]definition.
> Too bad all's I can call it is un[der]grammatical, on account of my
> philosophy that prefers accusations be verifiable; sorry. :-(
Again, more lines needed. Vonnie acted like a mother, taking care of me and
our two younger sister when we were left alone. She would dig through the
refrigerator and cabinets to find us things to eat. On the day that this poem
relates to, we (Vonnie and I) were told to stay out of the house and just
play in the yard. So, when we got hungry, Vonnie collected the berries and we
ate them.
>
> > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> I like ["ate"] the vernacularism, but not all Readers will.
This line will stay as is. This one line made every one of my relatives and
friends choke tears. I know that it may not mean much sitting within the poem
as it is written now, but the emotion behind it is what I would like to
express and be felt by others.
>
> But I exaggerated a moment ago, when I claimed that your storyline is
> trapped inside only two lines; it's here, too, sorta, but only 'cuz I
> read your reply to {*Bindi!*} Bindi, in which you synopsize.
>
> ~Trust me~, now that I know what story you're telling, I can
> understand how the language you've used in this poem provides you
> with a perception of adequate transmission of content. :-)
>
> > You would be proud of the man I became,
> > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > always help those who can't help themselves
> > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Cute twist on "yard rules", in a revised setting; I'm giving
> particular attention to L9/S3:L1 (-: Have you heard the one about
> "Show, don't tell", yet, Cat? :-) 'cuz it's one thing to permit The
> Voice of a juvenile character [even in indirect quotation] to sound
> childish, but if The Narrator's Voice stays too young [a naïve writer
> often "sounds young", independent of age] for too long without good
> reason, I know one Gentle Reader who's liable to toddle off in search
> of [some Milne] This Poem's Competition, so don't get ~too cute~.
>
> Ach! afore I ferggit: dactyls "get ~too cute~" *real easy*!
>
> L9/S3:L1 ain't nuthin but dactyl.
>
> I would begin by choosing the /rhythm/ for what The Narrator needs
> upon which to build your characterization, and "lickety-splickety
> shickety-brickety" would be excellent in a [self-]satire.
>
> Cat, if you don't know what you've written, you won't understand why
> Some Readers ~have problems~ with it. If, f'rinstance, you force me
> to listen to [higgledy-piggledy] a nursery rhyme whilst your Narrator
> is in the throes of ~Communicating Something Big~, I get irked.
>
> Mebbe I like poetry too much if I can get irked about it.
>
> {*grumble* . . . but I enjoy Burns @%^}
Yes, my metrical footing is poorly walked and perhaps "too cute" for a grown
man's voice. It just shows I still have much to learn about writing poetry.
This is my last imbedded comment. The rest are at the bottom of this message.
>
> > Though days go by and my memory fails,
> > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > -- Cat
>
> 1st thoughts: {*Bindi!*;} cliché, cliché, cliché, cliché; you've had
> some feedback {*Bindi!*} on this already.
>
> 2nd thoughts: the proof for the final two lines is entirely
> [un]supported by L9/S3:L1 (-: "Show don't tell." :-). Ruminations on
> The Narrator's ~self-importance~ distract {me} one too forcefully for
> "beauty" to rise up and oust them, at this stage. I wonder how anyone
> would /show/ "the man I became" *in a poem* with enough clarity to
> improve A Reader's shot at getting as much "beauty" out of the
> experience as The Author intends? That carefully staged demonstration
> of "the man I became" should [probably?] volunteer suggestions [by
> association] for subsequent clarification [word-choice] of "beauty".
>
> Final thoughts: rhyme scheme development; two 'ivvitses' and a slew
> of '[m]eeeees'; I'd like to be sure I wouldn't be shouted down on a
> matter of personal preference [IMO: not] ere I meddle, but My Ear is
> undersatisfied by the choices you've made.
>
> Had "Vonnie Leigh" been somebody's Head of State, different poems
> would be written about her by different poets. In theory (-: and if
> we changed that date ;-), this poem might wind up among them. Were I
> to read a dozen poems about "Vonnie Leigh", including this one, I
> might not need /this/ poem to supply me with tons of detail on
> account of The [Media] Competition /sharing/ the workload.
>
> So, things about which Readers have been educated make sense to Them.
>
> Which returns me to the last word of my first long-winded paragraph
> of this post: "Perspective."
>
> Right now, The Author's got it, but The Readers don't.
>
> Of course, anyone who has ever [insert typical human traumalist] had
> someone close die has a wealth of painful experiences on-call.
>
> I've decided that just because a poem reminds me of something else
> that happened to /me/ to wrench /my/ psyche, 1) any ~bond~ I fancy I
> feel with The Author is illusory [in cases where the poem didn't do
> any more work than my life already has], and I could be reminded of
> the same events by a TV spot, ergo, I feel manipulated, because 2) I
> might not even be associating the same sort of ~trauma~ from my own
> warehouse in comparison to The Author's Intent; when there's too
> little |literal evidence| to justify an experience emulated via
> linguistic artifact, you don't reach Readers, you reach Daydreamers.
>
> {holee cow! lookit them anagrams in "DaydREAmERS" @%^}
>
> This act has taken long enough for me to get together to allow Bindi
> {*Bindi!*} another reply. It's like there's an echo in AAPC, no?
>
> Sometimes one tends to get similar comments from independent sources.
>
> I've seen some posters dismiss the same comments a half-dozen times.
>
> There's "yard rules", and then there's "yard rules", as you know.
>
> Tell me I'm no fun, and I'll leave you alone, but I like doing c&c.
>
> And I think that if there are any Little Poems that deserve all the
> TLC a good revision-process can generate, it's personal tributes.
>
> Thank you for posting, Cat; be well.
>
> \\//_ - cyn
>
Thanks for all the comments you (and Bindi) have made. They are of great
value to me. In my opinion, you could not have said enough (in other words: I
did not find you to be "long winded" as you mentioned above). You've given me
much to think about. And believe me, I will!
Now, I will go back and work (slowly) on this poem. I can see it needs a
tremendous amount of work (but, I knew that before I posted it). It is
obvious I was in too much of a hurry to get it done in time for Vonnie's
birthday. So, with saying that, I probably will not be posting a revision of
this poem any time soon.
Again, I thank you. You have been very kind with your critique and I
appreciate it. I hope we get to talk again.
Cat
Peter J Ross
alt.arts.poetry.comments:
> On a poetic Saturday in September
> ~~{ Peter J Ross }~~ anted with:
>...
>>
>> >> Try abusing the copyright and see what happens to you, Tomwit.
>> >
>> >What copyright, moron.
>>
>> The copyright you'll be sued for if you abuse it. Is that clear now?
>
>I don't know what you are talking about.
I'm talking about copyright abuse, Tommy. That's why I used such words
as "copyright" and "abuse", see?
>You can't copyright: ~/&&/:-)
Did I say you could? Little Tommy said ASCII art couldn't be
copyrighted. What do my comments on that clueless statement have to do
with the eight random characters you posted?
>You are jabbering?
I'll leave that to you.
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
> Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> >
> > Vonnie Leigh
> >
> > Humanity would never come to know
> > all the beauty you had to give it,
> > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > took your life before you could live it.
> >
> > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > you were a mother who took care of me,
> > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > You would be proud of the man I became,
> > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > always help those who can't help themselves
> > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
> >
> > Though days go by and my memory fails,
> > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > -- Cat
>
> Lost episode: "Mayberry Goes Beatnik"
>
> [the poetry reading scene]:
>
> "Read us that pome again, Howard!" -Floyd, snapping his fingers.
>
> "Yeah, I like the part where she ate that... whatever it was she
> ate..." -Goober.
>
> "Goober, you just beat all... those was *rosary beads* she ate... pay
> attention to the first verse." -Howard
>
> Howard stiffens his stance, rolls his eyes, and reads into the
> microphone:
>
> "Huuuumannnuty will neverrrr know..."
>
> Opie, wearing his beret, thumps his bongos with heart and soul.
>
> Meanwhile, Andy and Barney have pulled over two dangerous looking
> characters, Sal Paradise and Dean Moriarty, on their way to Sal's
> sister's house in Chapel Hill, for the holidays.
>
> "Andy! We done caught us two of them genuine communist beatniks! Let's
> arrest 'em and bring 'em to Ain't Bea and Thelma Lou's poetry reading
> at the cafe!" -Barney.
>
> "Nope, Barn. I'm calling the State Patrol... look in the backseat...
> banana peels. These are dope fiends, not poets!" -Andy.
Your egotistic (and childish) obsession with "trying so very very hard"
to show me what a badass little pizzagirl you are is fully noted, moron.
So, what childish trick are you going do next, pedo-lover Little Willma?
Are you going to stand on your hands and walk around in circles chanting
"Look at what I can do!" I so own you, you pathetic little moron. Dance!
--
Cm~
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > In article <1103009500.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
> >
> > > Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > > > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> > > >
> > > > Vonnie Leigh
> > > >
> > > > Humanity would never come to know
> > > > all the beauty you had to give it,
> > > > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > > > took your life before you could live it.
> > > >
> > > > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > > > you were a mother who took care of me,
>
>
> Incest is best, huh, Barbara?
>
> > > > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > > > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
> > > >
> > > > You would be proud of the man I became,
>
> Proud of a blubbering Usenet fuckwit known as Barbara?
>
> *grin*
>
> > > > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > > > always help those who can't help themselves
> > > > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
> > > >
> > > > Though days go by and my memory fails,
> > > > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> > > > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > > > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> It'll take more than a crappy poem by you to make that happen, Barbara.
> Yours. We can stop anytime you're ready, Barbie.
What? The badass pizzabitch isn't gonna start crying, is she?
Where's the "woof woof"? Where's the "megalomaniac shit-spit"?
I so own you, badass Little Willma, you pathetic little moron.
--
Cm~
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
[ "Badass" Pedo-Lover Little Willma's Whimperings Snipped ]
Your egotistic (and childish) obsession with "trying so very very hard"
to show me what a badass little pizzagirl you are is fully noted, moron.
So, what childish trick are you going do next, pedo-lover Little Willma?
Are you going stick pencils in your ears and pretend you're old Lucifer?
I so own you, you pathetic little pizzabitch. Come on! Give me a "woof!"
--
Cm~
Will Dockery
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Vonnie Leigh
>
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> took your life before you could live it.
>
> Children too free for the dangers out there,
> you were a mother who took care of me,
> You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> You would be proud of the man I became,
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
> all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> In article <bklo1j$32mms$1...@ID-66859.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Bindi" (Bin...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> >
> > This is a walking cliche. imo.
>
> True. This seems to be my current style.
Your current style consists of sniffing away behind the posts of Chuck,
and when he's not around, me, Barbie.
>But, I'm working on it.
> Thanks for reading it anyway. (More comments below).
>
> > > Vonnie Leigh
> > >
> > > Humanity would never come to know
> > > all the beauty you had to give it,
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > > took your life before you could live it.
> >
> > This is abstract to me. Last line is cliche.
>
> I need to change L3 so you will understand what she ate. This is the
way I
> remember her eating the rosary beads (a poisonous berry that is red
with a
> black dot), pushing them through her lips instead of opening her
mouth.
>
> > > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > > you were a mother who took care of me,
> > > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > eaten. Eaten what?
>
> The berries. I ate them too, but I survived because I swallowed them
whole
> instead of chewing them (according to my father).
>
> > This is confusing.
> > From the intro, Vonnie Leigh is 5/6 years old
> > and now a mother?
> > I know what you are getting at but it is not clear.
>
> My sister always acted like a mother to me and the other children.
> Our real mother was not a good one and left us alone way too often.
I'd like to read the poem about *that*. Did she sexually abuse you,
Barbara?
Or was she just a whore?
> > > You would be proud of the man I became,
> >
> > cliche.
A lie, as well.
> > > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > > always help those who can't help themselves
> > > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> L3 means she wanted me to help the other (younger) children.
> L4 means she told me not to be afraid of bugs (as I was).
>
> >
> > Line 4 comes from left field. I can't see how it ties in to what
> > comes before. It probably makes sense to you the writer
> > but unless you show the reader the reason for its being there
> > we have no idea.
> >
> > >
> > > Though days go by and my memory fails,
> >
> > big cliche.
> >
> > > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > >
> > > -- Cat
> >
> > If you want the reader to feel anything about Vonnie Leigh
> > then you have to show us, not tell us.
> > Pick one thing about her, describe it in your own words
> > and let us see for ourselves why she is important to you.
> > HTH.
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Bindi
> > (remove 'earwigs' to reply)
>
> BTW, I went to your web still. Nicely done. Lots of good stuff. When
I get
> back home at the end of the week I plan on spending more time there.
>
> Well, I'm off to Miami now (yuck).
>
> >
........................................................................
> > Do not mess with dragons
> > for you are crunchy
> > and taste good
> > with ketchup!
> > -------------------------
> > www.slingshot.to/Bindi
> > -------------------------
> >
.........................................................................
> > "I believe he was killed by a dragon m'lord.
> > Notice the tell-tale marks around the stump of his neck
> > and the charred nature of the corpse."
> >
........................................................................
> >
> > __/\__
> > __|_,-~~-,|__
> > __|_-~ ~-|__
> > l__l |_-~ ,-- \ |
> > /- -\ /\/\/\/\ _- / / / \
> > |o o|~~~___ / / | _/ \
> > ~~ / /_,,,-----'~~~ / / / /
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> In article <1103009500.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> > >
> > > Vonnie Leigh
> > >
> > > Humanity would never come to know
> > > all the beauty you had to give it,
> > > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > > took your life before you could live it.
> > >
> > > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > > you were a mother who took care of me,
Incest is best, huh, Barbara?
> > > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
> > >
> > > You would be proud of the man I became,
Proud of a blubbering Usenet fuckwit known as Barbara?
*grin*
> > > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > > always help those who can't help themselves
> > > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
> > >
> > > Though days go by and my memory fails,
> > > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> > > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
It'll take more than a crappy poem by you to make that happen, Barbara.
> > > -- Cat
Will Dockery
It *was* a bit sad reading about your dead sister, Barbara, but not
quite worth crying about.
Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3>
"Autograph Of Zorro" {digital video}:
<http://www.lulu.com/items/86000/86128/1/preview/45-Zorro.mpg>
The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>
Will Dockery
> In article <1103080357.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> [ "Badass" Pedo-Lover Little Willma's Whimperings Snipped ]
>
Snip away, Barbie... it's all in the google archives.
It can all come back, just like *this*:
> Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Hi, Mr. Cat.
> This is a walking cliche. imo.
>
> > Vonnie Leigh
> >
> > Humanity would never come to know
> > all the beauty you had to give it,
>
> cliche.
>
> > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > took your life before you could live it.
>
> This is abstract to me. Last line is cliche.
>
> > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > you were a mother who took care of me,
Your sister *and* your mother? Keeping it in the family, Barbie?
> > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> eaten. Eaten what?
> This is confusing.
> From the intro, Vonnie Leigh is 5/6 years old
> and now a mother?
> I know what you are getting at but it is not clear.
>
> > You would be proud of the man I became,
Proud of Barbara Catshit, blubbling fuckwit of Usenet?
> cliche.
>
> > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > always help those who can't help themselves
> > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Line 4 comes from left field. I can't see how it ties in to what
> comes before. It probably makes sense to you the writer
> but unless you show the reader the reason for its being there
> we have no idea.
>
> >
> > Though days go by and my memory fails,
>
> big cliche.
>
> > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
>
> cliche.
>
> > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> cliche.
>
> >
> > -- Cat
>
> If you want the reader to feel anything about Vonnie Leigh
> then you have to show us, not tell us.
> Pick one thing about her, describe it in your own words
> and let us see for ourselves why she is important to you.
> HTH.
Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <fearde...@yahoo.com> said:
But crying is all you do, Little Willma. You attach your pitiful tears
of megalomania on every one of my posts without fail. I so own you.
Now post me another reply of megalomaniac tears, you obsessed moron.
[ Little Willma's Spam-Shit Links Snipped Again ]
--
Cm~
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <fearde...@yahoo.com> said:
[ "Badass" Pedo-Lover Little Willma's Whimperings Snipped Again ]
Come on, Little Willma, post me another one of your pitiful
tear filled megalomaniac replies. I know you can't resist
replying, it's against your egotistic nature not to and it
would just kill you up if a post of mine went by without you
attaching your "badass" pizzagirl reply to it. I so own you.
[ More of the Pitiful Pizzagirl's Spam Links Snipped ]
--
Cm~
Will Dockery
> Come on, Little Willma, post me another one of your pitiful
> tear filled
Can't right now, Barbie. I'm laughing too hard at the poem of yours I
came across where you cried and cried into your single serving of
lasagna:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/browse_frm/month/2003-11
Plus, you snipped your pathetic poem about your dead sister/mother.
Good idea.
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
Your obsessed need for my attention is noted, Little Willma.
Do try to get over it, okay, freak?
--
Cm~
Main Entry: meg·a·lo·ma·nia
Pronunciation: "me-g&-lO-'mA-nE-&, -ny&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
1 : a mania for great or grandiose performance
2 : a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings
of personal omnipotence and grandeur
- meg·a·lo·ma·ni·ac /-'mA-nE-"ak/ adjective or noun
- meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a·cal /-m&-'nI-&-k&l/
also meg·a·lo·man·ic /-'ma-nik/ adjective
- meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a·cal·ly /-m&-'nI-&-k(&-)lE/ adverb
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> In article <1103183866.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
> >
> > > Come on, Little Willma, post me another one of your pitiful
> > > tear filled
> >
> > Can't right now, Barbie. I'm laughing too hard at the poem of yours
I
> > came across where you cried and cried into your single serving of
> > lasagna:
> >
> >
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/browse_frm/month/2003-11
> >
> > Plus, you snipped your pathetic poem about your dead sister/mother.
> > Good idea.
>
> Your obsessed need for my attention is noted, Little Willma.
> Do try to get over it, okay, freak?
Repeat number four, or is it five?
It wasn't that fantastic of a reply the first time, Barbara.
Maybe a trip to the trailer park to gawk at the "white trash" girls
will inspire you. I doubt you have the courage to actaully pick one up,
though.
So, perhaps a good cry over your single serving tv dinner would work
best.
So pathetic. So lame. So pedo-wannabe. So Barbara.
Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3>
"Autograph Of Zorro" {digital video}:
<http://www.lulu.com/items/86000/86128/1/preview/45-Zorro.mpg>
The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>
> Main Entry: meg·a·lo·ma·nia
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Vonnie Leigh
>
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> took your life before you could live it.
>
> Children too free for the dangers out there,
> you were a mother who took care of me,
Incest is *best*, Barbara?
> and would feed us whatever you could find.
> You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
She shouldn't have *eaten*, either, sub-lit pedo-wannabe. Of was it
seven, or nine you intended?
> You would be proud of the man I became,
> living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
> all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> -- Cat
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
[ Pitiful Pizzagirl's Habitually Posted Crap Snipped Again ]
--
Cm~
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
Your obsessed need for my attention is noted, Little Willma.
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> Today, you say
> is your birthday, Jay?
> Well, sir, I do hope
> it's happy!
>
> And being fifty is nifty,
> I'm sure you'll soon see,
> for young girls love old dudes
> named Pappy!
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> In article <bklo1j$32mms$1...@ID-66859.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Bindi" (Bin...@bigpond.com.au) wrote ...
> > > My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
> >
> > This is a walking cliche. imo.
>
And you do it well, Barbara! Here's to the Rod McKuen of usenet!
*applause*
> But, I'm working on it.
> Thanks for reading it anyway. (More comments below).
>
> > >
> > > Vonnie Leigh
> > >
> > > Humanity would never come to know
> > > all the beauty you had to give it,
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > > for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> > > took your life before you could live it.
> >
> > This is abstract to me. Last line is cliche.
>
> I need to change L3 so you will understand what she ate. This is the
way I
> remember her eating the rosary beads (a poisonous berry that is red
with a
> black dot), pushing them through her lips instead of opening her
mouth.
>
> >
> > >
> > > Children too free for the dangers out there,
> > > you were a mother who took care of me,
> > > and would feed us whatever you could find.
> > > You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > eaten. Eaten what?
>
> The berries. I ate them too, but I survived because I swallowed them
whole
> instead of chewing them (according to my father).
What a shame if the world had been deprived of the words and wisdumb of
Barbara's Catshit. Or not.
> > This is confusing.
> > From the intro, Vonnie Leigh is 5/6 years old
> > and now a mother?
It's the South. In the 1950s, incest was *best*.
> > I know what you are getting at but it is not clear.
>
> My sister always acted like a mother to me and the other children.
> Our real mother was not a good one and left us alone way too often.
I still say your mama would make a good poem, Catshit.
Did she sexually abuse you?
Or was she just a whore?
Is this what led you to your misogynistic pedophilac fantasies?
: Barbara's Cat (c...@127.0.0.1)
Subject: Re: Cat - Dawn at the Lake Shore
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Date: 2004-05-02 16:18:53 PST
On Sun, 2 May 2004 15:37:47 -0700 T0...@Whooooo.do52 wrote ...
> I like more excitement and a hint of sex, but whatever.
> It is nice for a granny poem.
Well, Tom, I'll have to start working on some porno poetry just for
you.
Maybe I'll go over to one of the many trailer parks we have around here
and hang out with some white-trash girls. They're bound to give me
something to write about (or get rid of). Just don't tell Barbara.
Cm~
> > > You would be proud of the man I became,
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > > living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> > > always help those who can't help themselves
> > > and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> L3 means she wanted me to help the other (younger) children.
> L4 means she told me not to be afraid of bugs (as I was).
>
> >
> > Line 4 comes from left field. I can't see how it ties in to what
> > comes before. It probably makes sense to you the writer
> > but unless you show the reader the reason for its being there
> > we have no idea.
> >
> > >
> > > Though days go by and my memory fails,
> >
> > big cliche.
> >
> > > thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > > And I hope through me some will come to know
> > > all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
> >
> > cliche.
> >
> > >
> > > -- Cat
> >
> > If you want the reader to feel anything about Vonnie Leigh
> > then you have to show us, not tell us.
> > Pick one thing about her, describe it in your own words
> > and let us see for ourselves why she is important to you.
> > HTH.
> >
> >
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
>
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
> took your life before you could live it.
>
> you were a mother who took care of me,
Please explain, Barbara... your sister was *also* your mother?
Did she also sexually abuse you?
But, more currently, can you explain your intentions to stalk underage
"lower class" children?
: Barbara's Cat (c...@127.0.0.1)
Subject: Re: Cat - Dawn at the Lake Shore
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Date: 2004-05-02 16:18:53 PST
On Sun, 2 May 2004 15:37:47 -0700 T0...@Whooooo.do52 wrote ...
> I like more excitement and a hint of sex, but whatever.
> It is nice for a granny poem.
Well, Tom, I'll have to start working on some porno poetry just for
you.
Maybe I'll go over to one of the many trailer parks we have around here
and hang out with some white-trash girls. They're bound to give me
something to write about (or get rid of). Just don't tell Barbara.
Cm~
> and would feed us whatever you could find.
> You shouldn't have ate that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> You would be proud of the man I became,
> living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
> all the beauty that you were, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> -- Cat
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
[ Obsessed Pizzagirl's Habitually Posted Crap Snipped Again ]
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <opb...@yahoo.com> said:
[ Illiterate Pizzagirl's Habitually Posted Crap Snipped Again ]
Will Dockery
Barbara's Cat wrote:
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Vonnie Leigh
>
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> took your life before you could live it.
>
> Children too free for the dangers out there,
> you were a mother who took care of me,
Your mother is also your *sister*? Was gyour grandfather also your
older brother? I know... "incest is best", right?
> and would feed us whatever you could find.
> You shouldn't have ate
Should she have "sevened" or "nined"? So much for your lofty claims of
superior literacy... fuckwit.
>that day, Vonnie Leigh.
>
> You would be proud of the man I became,
Pretty delusional, considering the foolish looking joke you've made of
yourself here on Usenet.
You really think Vonnie Leigh would be proud of an obsessed spambot
with a woman's name?
> living life by the yard rules you taught me --
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
At this rate, doubtful.
Barbara's Cat
Will Dockery <fearde...@yahoo.com> said:
[ Obsessed Fool's Whining for Owner's Attention Snipped ]
Answer every one of these posts, Little Willma, because I want you to.
Main Entry: fool
Pronunciation: 'fül
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French fol, from Late Latin follis,
1 : a person lacking in judgment or prudence
2a : a retainer formerly kept in great households to provide casual
entertainment and commonly dressed in motley with cap, bells, and
bauble
b : one who is victimized or made to appear foolish : DUPE : pizzagirl
3a : a harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of
understanding
b : one with a marked propensity or fondness for something
<a dancing fool> <a fool for candy>
4 : a cold dessert of pureed fruit mixed with whipped cream or custard
--
Cm~
General Zod
>
> My sister, born: Sep 22, 1953, died: Oct 19, 1959
>
> Vonnie Leigh
>
> Humanity would never come to know
> all the beauty you had to give it,
> for the kiss you gave the rosary beads
> took your life before you could live it.
>
> Children too free for the dangers out there,
> you were a mother who took care of me,
> You would be proud of the man I became,
> always help those who can't help themselves
> and bugs are pretty if you just look to see.
>
> Though days go by and my memory fails,
> thoughts of you are still alive within me.
> And I hope through me some will come to know
>
> -- Cat