I am a Splash / George Dance

[George Dance]

I am a Splash

I am a splash; the pond abides
serenely after I am done.
Such different thoughts when I was young:
Back then, I thought I'd rule the wide
ocean, and command its tide.
Yet still those rocks and stones I take
and cast them into every lake
and pond, and every brook and stream,
inspired by a constant dream:
To see how big a splash I'll make.

- George Dance

[kar...@comcast.net]

Obpoem:

I am your pool of water

I am your pool of water, or your dream
of a drink of water, your lone camel,
a solitary cactus plant, serene,
waiting for your thirst, your lust to trammel

you a second in the sand. Ah, the sand
how fine and warm and plentiful, you'd cry.
At night the wind whirled life, it took your hand.
You woke forsaken in seas of sand, sky

burning, stealing sand, plentiful in thirst,
you rise to offer up your sap again.
And again. Sands rise and whorl, break and burst.
How fine and warm, you weep, undone. Open

your heart to me. I am your pool of blood,
your dream of birth, the nipples of new man,
the womb wracked violate, forever flood.
O come out from deserts of dying sand.

Karla
01/98

[George Dance]

Thank you, Karla.

I'm not gonna look an obpoem in the mouth, but please: if you do
decide to turn this into a keeper, please make the last line: "O come
out from the desert's dying sand."

I've got another idea; rather than read the latest in the "Mercury &
Clocks" thread tonight, I'm going to read your poem again.

[George Dance]

How stupid of me; I didn't notice the date before. But my entreaty
stands.

[George J. Dance]

Here's a decade-old poem from me, a "decima", bumped for V.C. As a bonus, there's another decade-old (at the time) poem in the thread, from Karla Rogers, another long-time aapc writer, in the thread.

[Hieronymous Corey]

You just wrote 'in the thread' twice in the same sentence. WAKE UP, GEORGE!! LOL

[Vinyl Cat]

Good Morning 🌞 George! I hope your night was well! Absolutely love, I've always been facinted with water!!! It's so peaceful and calming. My mind needs that sometimes.

[Vinyl Cat]

Good morning, Corey!!!

[Will Dockery]

Wow, the "Mercury & Clocks" debate was quite an epic, I think the entire Spring of 2009 was dominated by that.

[Perry Winkle]

Bravo G.D.

[Perry Winkle]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 5:29:39 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> You just wrote 'in the thread' twice in the same sentence. WAKE UP, GEORGE!! LOL

Good morning Pastor Corey......

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:49:33 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 12:19:26 AM UTC-4, General Zod wrote:

> > Karla is a very talented and probably lovely lady.........
>
> That she was my friend, that she was.

Judging from her posts, she openly despised you and tolerated you at best.

But beggars can't be choosers, can they?

[Will Dockery]

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 9:11:39 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:49:33 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:

She wrote good poetry and was (may still be) a pretty woman, and after we called a truce and ended the flame war, we got along fine.

[Michael Pendragon]

IOW: She openly despised you; but after you called a truce, she tolerated you at best.

Got it.

[George J. Dance]

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 12:19:26 AM UTC-4, General Zod wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 7:20:23 PM UTC-4, Karla wrote:

> Karla is a very talented and probably lovely lady.........

It rhymes and mostly scans; Karla deserves points for trying to combine traditional form with imagist content.

[Will Dockery]

<bullshit snipped>

> IOW: She openly despised you

That has nothing to do with the fact that she wrote good poetry, though, you know that.

:)

[Michael Pendragon]

Per Merriam-Webster:

Trammel
transitive verb

1: to catch or hold in or as if in a net : ENMESH
2: to prevent or impede the free play of : CONFINE

"your lust to trammel
you a second in the sand."

His lust to net himself in the sand? Seriously, wtf?

Needless to say what intelligent readers would do at this point.

[George J. Dance]

The lines read: "waiting for your thirst, your lust to trammel / you a second in the sand."

As with lots of imagist poetry, the poem's full of ambiguity. The lines could mean the speaker is:
(1) waiting for the auditor's lust and thirst to net (immobilize) him so he's helpless before her;
(2) waiting for the auditor's lust and thirst to appear, so that she can net him then (by promising to free him of them); or, yes,
(3) waiting for the auditor to start thirsting and lusting to be netted (so she can oblige him) (wtf indeed)

Not to defend Karla, but I'd call that good ambiguity; since the interpretations aren't inconsistent, but all fit with the 'narrative':

The speaker has water (love) for the auditor. But the auditor has no water (no love life), nor does he have any apparent need for any. So she's content to watch (even "stalk") him until he does realize his need, and then she'll get him.

> Needless to say what intelligent readers would do at this point.

It's just a Karla poem. No big deal if a reader skips it; they can get the same idea in plenty of other poems by women. Here's a good one on the same theme, though expressed with completely different imagery:

January / E. Nesbit
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2019/01/january-e-nesbit.html

[General Zod]

Well put G.D...........................

[Michael Pendragon]

I've no doubt that she'd intended your first reading:

"(1) waiting for the auditor's lust and thirst to net (immobilize) him so he's helpless before her;"

But you have to bear in mind that most readers will still be maintaining the image of the speaker as his camel.

"I am your pool of water, or your dream
of a drink of water,"

Karla (yeah, I know, the speaker is not the author, but I'm calling her Karla all the same) is likening her lover to the Sheik of Araby, or Allan Quartermain or Lawrence of Arabia and telling him that she will be the things he most needs and desires; and that she will is offering to be all these things as an expression of her love.

So far, so good.

Her offer to be his "lone camel" is unintentionally funny, but I'm still willing to give the poem a chance at this point.

"a solitary cactus plant, serene,"

Okay, now this line would normally kill a poem for me. Not only is "serene" meaningless in connection with the rest of the text, but it's a forced not-so-near rhyme. Why anyone would have to force a not-so-near rhyme with an isolated adjective that doesn't even fit the text is beyond me. That's taking compositional incompetence to a new level.

But "waiting for your thirst, your lust to trammel/you a second in the sand" is just embarrassingly awkward English.

Karla wanted a word to rhyme with camel. So she googled "camel" on RhymeZone (or a similar rhyming site) and came up with "trammel" (the only other options being "mammal" and "enamel," she selected the lesser nightmare).

Since "trammel" means "to net, impede, ensnare, etc." she is waiting for his or thirst to cause him to pass out so she can have her way with him.

"Thirst" is equated with "lust" because... uh... both are physical desires, and one could claim that they thirst for someone, etc. The problem is that in the context of the desert metaphor, the equation of "thirst" and "lust" no longer makes sense. A good writer would sustain the metaphor throughout the stanza for consistency.

So Valentino lusts after his camel and his camel lusts after him, and when he collapses from thirst (which is really his lust; or which would be his lust if he weren't unconscious) in the desert, and the camel mounts his prone body and has her way with him.

Unless this poem is meant to be a tastelessly funny send up of yours, it's got my vote for the worst poem ever written -- and I'm only four and a half lines into it.

> Not to defend Karla, but I'd call that good ambiguity; since the interpretations aren't inconsistent, but all fit with the 'narrative':
>

Re: inconsistency, see above.

> The speaker has water (love) for the auditor. But the auditor has no water (no love life), nor does he have any apparent need for any. So she's content to watch (even "stalk") him until he does realize his need, and then she'll get him.
>

She continues:

"Ah, the sand
how fine and warm and plentiful, you'd cry."

So while the camel/lover is mounting her semi-conscious sheik in the desert of their unrequited love he is going to sing out an ode to the sand?

I really can't keep reading this nonsense.

> > Needless to say what intelligent readers would do at this point.
>
> It's just a Karla poem. No big deal if a reader skips it; they can get the same idea in plenty of other poems by women. Here's a good one on the same theme, though expressed with completely different imagery:
>
> January / E. Nesbit
> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2019/01/january-e-nesbit.html

Yes there are many poems that express unrequited love/longing in a similar manner... just not with horny camels trammeling nomadic wanderers in the nets of their lust.

[General Zod]

Yes reminds me a bit of the Ilya poem.....

[General Zod]

Interesting for a second read....

[Will Dockery]

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 12:19:26 AM UTC-4, General Zod wrote:

> Karla is a very talented and probably lovely lady.........

https://pennyspoetry.fandom.com/wiki/Karla_Rogers

"Karla Keasey Rogers is an American poet who posted on Usenet..."

"Rogers lives in Sunnyvale, California. She previously lived in Mill Valley, Mountain View, San Jose, Cupertino, and Los Gatos, California. Rogers was a long-time contributor to usenet group alt.arts.poetry.comments..."

Legal controversy

"Rogers is best known for her copyright infringement lawsuit against poet Tom Bishop. Rogers sued Bishop, another aapc contributor, in 2007, claiming that the text to his movie, "April," infringed the copyright of her poem of the same name.

Rogers sued in California Northern District Court on January 17, 2007.[2] The case was transferred to California Southern District Court on May 17, 2007.

Bishop died on December 15, 2007.[4] On January 7, 2008, an entry of default was found against Bishop for failing to respond to Rogers' service. On February 8, Rogers moved for a default judgment, which was awarded on May 15, 2008.."

Writing

"Rogers is probably best known for her statement: "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem."

[Reverend Zod]

So that is the famous Karla.... not bad on the ye at all.....

[General Zod]

> It rhymes and mostly scans; Karla deserves points for trying to combine traditional form with imagist content.

Yes.......

[General Zod]

[George J. Dance]

Well, that's "imagist free verse" - rather than telling the auditor what they're thinking, the speaker has to come up with some metaphor that expresses the idea. It's a powerful technique, when it's used with the right image - but the "imagist" writer has to use it repeatedly, and it always has to be a *new* metaphor, so you can get a lot of silly ones. I'd recommend Billy Collins's poem, "Litany," as an excellent parody of the genre:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Iq3PbSWZY (the poem starts at the 2-minute mark).

Karla's image is rather crude - "I'm the only one you need to ride" - and I think meant to be funny in a nudge-nudge-wink-wink- type of way.

>
> "a solitary cactus plant, serene,"
>
> Okay, now this line would normally kill a poem for me. Not only is "serene" meaningless in connection with the rest of the text, but it's a forced not-so-near rhyme. Why anyone would have to force a not-so-near rhyme with an isolated adjective that doesn't even fit the text is beyond me. That's taking compositional incompetence to a new level.

Well, to tell you the truth, 'cactus' spoils the poem for me. It reminds me of "Midnight at the Oasis," which had the same problem: camels and cacti are found in different deserts on different continents. Putting a cactus into this Arabian desert is as hilariously incongruous as, say, someone writing about the Arctic and putting in penguins.

So that's two faults in one line, which I agree kills the poem. If Karla's were a draft, that would be excusable; but, as we've seen, it's something she'd considered finished 10 years previously, so there's no excuse.

> But "waiting for your thirst, your lust to trammel/you a second in the sand" is just embarrassingly awkward English.

OK; this reminds me of the movie "Dune" - an audience of fans of the book ended up 2 hours later laughing and jeering at the movie. Of course, they had no choice, being stuck in the room with it playing. But I can well imagine a reader, after reading a line like the "serene cactus" one, suddenly deciding he's reading a bad, silly poem, and continuing to read on to see how bad and silly it gets. In fact, I've done that myself, and I can see you being in that mindframe by the time you got to "trammel."

> Karla wanted a word to rhyme with camel. So she googled "camel" on RhymeZone (or a similar rhyming site) and came up with "trammel" (the only other options being "mammal" and "enamel," she selected the lesser nightmare).
>
> Since "trammel" means "to net, impede, ensnare, etc." she is waiting for his or thirst to cause him to pass out so she can have her way with him.
>
> "Thirst" is equated with "lust" because... uh... both are physical desires, and one could claim that they thirst for someone, etc. The problem is that in the context of the desert metaphor, the equation of "thirst" and "lust" no longer makes sense. A good writer would sustain the metaphor throughout the stanza for consistency.
>
> So Valentino lusts after his camel and his camel lusts after him, and when he collapses from thirst (which is really his lust; or which would be his lust if he weren't unconscious) in the desert, and the camel mounts his prone body and has her way with him.
>
> Unless this poem is meant to be a tastelessly funny send up of yours, it's got my vote for the worst poem ever written -- and I'm only four and a half lines into it.
>
> > Not to defend Karla, but I'd call that good ambiguity; since the interpretations aren't inconsistent, but all fit with the 'narrative':

>
> Re: inconsistency, see above.
>
> > The speaker has water (love) for the auditor. But the auditor has no water (no love life), nor does he have any apparent need for any. So she's content to watch (even "stalk") him until he does realize his need, and then she'll get him.
> >
>
> She continues:
>
> "Ah, the sand
> how fine and warm and plentiful, you'd cry."
>
> So while the camel/lover is mounting her semi-conscious sheik in the desert of their unrequited love he is going to sing out an ode to the sand?
>
> I really can't keep reading this nonsense.
>
>
> > > Needless to say what intelligent readers would do at this point.
> >
> > It's just a Karla poem. No big deal if a reader skips it; they can get the same idea in plenty of other poems by women. Here's a good one on the same theme, though expressed with completely different imagery:
> >
> > January / E. Nesbit
> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2019/01/january-e-nesbit.html
>
> Yes there are many poems that express unrequited love/longing in a similar manner... just not with horny camels trammeling nomadic wanderers in the nets of their lust.

I can't dispute your analysis at her poem - my one regret is that Karla, not being here, will never get the benefit of it.

I don't think the theme is actually "unrequited" love (though it reads as easily that way as otherwise), with its idea of the woman as this helpless thing dependent on the guy's decisions. I get the idea this is a woman who's picked her man, knows she's going to get him, and is patiently waiting for him to see the error of his ways.

Here's another one, which I liked a lot - but you probably won't, because it's written in Prufrock-style rhyming vers libre. Still, I think it works very well, precisely because it isn't "imagist": the speaker doesn't confine herself to speaking in metaphors, but lets the reader know exactly what she's thinking;

Charlotte Mew, On the Road to the Sea

We passed each other, turned and stopped for half an hour, then went our way,
I who make other women smile did not make you –
But no man can move mountains in a day.
So this hard thing is yet to do.
[...]

https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2019/08/on-road-to-sea-charlotte-mew.html

[George J. Dance]

Actually, I think I used a terrible picture of her. I've substituted a new one.

[Will Dockery]

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:46:43 AM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:

I like this one, also:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43061471_10215385430942304_727694002563842048_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQmKjfazvIHFVPJezwEddEmc5BkbMUMQCx-ufO57Z_4jSkVJVOhAHY0bG7XUVJKECsk&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=bec75199bf288921453a65e57a7675c5&oe=5E1ED968

[Michael Pendragon]

I think you're making a bit more out of it than it is. The poem is set in some Arabian desert and a camel would be one of the obvious (stereotypical) elements of the scene. A camel would be invaluable to a desert nomad: it carries him and his belongings across the desert. If Karla had set her poem in the Wild West, she'd offer to be her favorite cowboy's horse.

> Karla's image is rather crude - "I'm the only one you need to ride" - and I think meant to be funny in a nudge-nudge-wink-wink- type of way.
> >

One would certainly hope it was intentional. But either way, the image that comes to mind is that of an Arab humping his camel.

> > "a solitary cactus plant, serene,"
> >
> > Okay, now this line would normally kill a poem for me. Not only is "serene" meaningless in connection with the rest of the text, but it's a forced not-so-near rhyme. Why anyone would have to force a not-so-near rhyme with an isolated adjective that doesn't even fit the text is beyond me. That's taking compositional incompetence to a new level.
>
> Well, to tell you the truth, 'cactus' spoils the poem for me. It reminds me of "Midnight at the Oasis," which had the same problem: camels and cacti are found in different deserts on different continents. Putting a cactus into this Arabian desert is as hilariously incongruous as, say, someone writing about the Arctic and putting in penguins.
>
> So that's two faults in one line, which I agree kills the poem. If Karla's were a draft, that would be excusable; but, as we've seen, it's something she'd considered finished 10 years previously, so there's no excuse.
>
> > But "waiting for your thirst, your lust to trammel/you a second in the sand" is just embarrassingly awkward English.
>
> OK; this reminds me of the movie "Dune" - an audience of fans of the book ended up 2 hours later laughing and jeering at the movie. Of course, they had no choice, being stuck in the room with it playing. But I can well imagine a reader, after reading a line like the "serene cactus" one, suddenly deciding he's reading a bad, silly poem, and continuing to read on to see how bad and silly it gets. In fact, I've done that myself, and I can see you being in that mindframe by the time you got to "trammel."
>

I haven't read the book, but I thought the movie was very good. That is, I thought that television cut I'd seen of the movie was very good. The television cut had something like 45 additional minutes added to it, and it had a wonderfully mythic feel to it that only a handful of movies have successfully captured.

As to Karla's poem, I'd have stopped reading it were it not the topic of conversation here. I spent 10 years (give or take) reading poetry submissions every night, and have read enough horrendous poetry for several lifetimes.

> > Karla wanted a word to rhyme with camel. So she googled "camel" on RhymeZone (or a similar rhyming site) and came up with "trammel" (the only other options being "mammal" and "enamel," she selected the lesser nightmare).
> >
> > Since "trammel" means "to net, impede, ensnare, etc." she is waiting for his or thirst to cause him to pass out so she can have her way with him.
> >
> > "Thirst" is equated with "lust" because... uh... both are physical desires, and one could claim that they thirst for someone, etc. The problem is that in the context of the desert metaphor, the equation of "thirst" and "lust" no longer makes sense. A good writer would sustain the metaphor throughout the stanza for consistency.
> >
> > So Valentino lusts after his camel and his camel lusts after him, and when he collapses from thirst (which is really his lust; or which would be his lust if he weren't unconscious) in the desert, and the camel mounts his prone body and has her way with him.
> >
> > Unless this poem is meant to be a tastelessly funny send up of yours, it's got my vote for the worst poem ever written -- and I'm only four and a half lines into it.
> >
> > > Not to defend Karla, but I'd call that good ambiguity; since the interpretations aren't inconsistent, but all fit with the 'narrative':
>
> >
> > Re: inconsistency, see above.
> >
> > > The speaker has water (love) for the auditor. But the auditor has no water (no love life), nor does he have any apparent need for any. So she's content to watch (even "stalk") him until he does realize his need, and then she'll get him.
> > >
> >
> > She continues:
> >
> > "Ah, the sand
> > how fine and warm and plentiful, you'd cry."
> >
> > So while the camel/lover is mounting her semi-conscious sheik in the desert of their unrequited love he is going to sing out an ode to the sand?
> >
> > I really can't keep reading this nonsense.
> >
> >
> > > > Needless to say what intelligent readers would do at this point.
> > >
> > > It's just a Karla poem. No big deal if a reader skips it; they can get the same idea in plenty of other poems by women. Here's a good one on the same theme, though expressed with completely different imagery:
> > >
> > > January / E. Nesbit
> > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2019/01/january-e-nesbit.html
> >
> > Yes there are many poems that express unrequited love/longing in a similar manner... just not with horny camels trammeling nomadic wanderers in the nets of their lust.
>
> I can't dispute your analysis at her poem - my one regret is that Karla, not being here, will never get the benefit of it.
>

It's probably for the best. Not many people can take a negative (even harsh) review.

> I don't think the theme is actually "unrequited" love (though it reads as easily that way as otherwise), with its idea of the woman as this helpless thing dependent on the guy's decisions. I get the idea this is a woman who's picked her man, knows she's going to get him, and is patiently waiting for him to see the error of his ways.
>

Well there's nothing in the poem to suggest that she's sure of his love (either at present or in the future). You're free to apply it to that situation, but for purposes of a critique, it's important for the reviewer not to bring anything into the poem.

> Here's another one, which I liked a lot - but you probably won't, because it's written in Prufrock-style rhyming vers libre. Still, I think it works very well, precisely because it isn't "imagist": the speaker doesn't confine herself to speaking in metaphors, but lets the reader know exactly what she's thinking;
>
> Charlotte Mew, On the Road to the Sea
>
> We passed each other, turned and stopped for half an hour, then went our way,
> I who make other women smile did not make you –
> But no man can move mountains in a day.
> So this hard thing is yet to do.
> [...]
>
> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2019/08/on-road-to-sea-charlotte-mew.html

I'll have to get back to you on this one -- time to make dinner.

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 5 Oct 2019 15:11:21 -0700 (PDT),

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:45:24 AM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:

<duncespewsnip>

> One would certainly hope it was intentional. But either way, the
> image that comes to mind is that of an Arab humping his camel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1xEEnKI_Nc

Genius!


--
PJR :-)

τὸν οἰόμενον νόον ἔχειν ὁ νουθετέων ματαιοπονεῖ.
- Democritus

[High Number]

Lovely and talented lady..........

[Michael Pendragon]

Unlike Willie and his coffee, I actually keep my word.

I gave it a first, then second, read and here are my initial impressions:

I liked some passages, but found the rhymes intrusive on some of the others. The narrative was slightly difficult to follow at times on my initial read through -- although I had no difficulty following it the second time. The "I want the world there is behind your eyes" and similar lines reminded me of a recent poem of Ilya's... only without anywhere near as many psychotic overtones.

On the whole, I like the concept: falling in love with a stranger (or even just becoming intrigued by one) and wanting to experience everything about them. It's a selfish, possessive and voracious approach to love that is self-negating and obsessive... beautiful and disturbing. She gets extra points for her implied envy of God.

But despite such excellent passages as "Trees that go black against the sky/And then – how soon the night!," the greater portion of it is written in a slightly sing-songy style that might have been written by Dr. Seuss ("Is this a stupid thing to say/Not having spent with you one day?").

On the whole, I'd say it was a pretty good poem that might have been a much better one.

[Will Dockery]

Always trolling for me aren't you, Pendragon?

:)

[General Zod]

Thank you G.D.

[Will Dockery]

That she was, my friend, that she was.

;)

[Perry Winkle]

Well put G.D.

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Wed, 18 September 2019 09:25

> On Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:
> > I am a Splash
> >
> > I am a splash; the pond abides
> > serenely after I am done.
> > Such different thoughts when I was young:
> > Back then, I thought I'd rule the wide
> > ocean, and command its tide.
> > Yet still those rocks and stones I take
> > and cast them into every lake
> > and pond, and every brook and stream,
> > inspired by a constant dream:
> > To see how big a splash I'll make.
> >
> > - George Dance
>

> Here's a decade-old poem from me, a "decima", bumped for V.C. As a bonus, there's another decade-old (at the time) poem in the thread, from Karla Rogers, another long-time aapc writer, in the thread.

Good one revisited................

[Gener...@none.i2p]

Will Dockery wrote on Sun, 06 October 2019 06:39

> Always trolling for me aren't you, Pendragon?
>
> :)

He's a troll, that's his thing............

[Zod-The...@none.i2p]

Will Dockery wrote on Sun, 06 October 2019 06:39

> Always trolling for me aren't you, Pendragon?
>
> :)

He seems to slobber more for me now than you.....

Don't be jealous......


Ha ha ha....