Re: Karla / Catholic
Will Dockery
Karla wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:45:52 GMT, "Sick Mind"
<boro...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> >
> >> Catholic
> >>
> >> The saints are dying now.
> >
> > And here I thought they were by definition already dead.
>
> Interesting. I'm sure most people's take on it, after a cursory
glance, would
> be the same. The intended use is more along the lines of Webster's
second
> usage - "a virtuous person". It might interest you to know that
there are
> three classifications of saints in the Roman Catholic Church: the
Church
> Triumphant (in heaven), the Church Suffering (in purgatory) and the
Church
> Militant (on earth). The word "saint" has meant "holy" or "set
apart". The
> early disciples were considered saints as they preached the good
news. I
> suppose it's this picture of people on a mission spreading a "gospel"
of sorts
> that I'm referring to. I'm sure by now you've stopped reading but
there you
> have it!
The Catholics also converted many Roman Gods into Saints.
> >> Their words
> >> hang upon the willows sleeping
> >> and their guitars are blowing in the wind.
A "Dylan plays for the Pope" reference. Nice.
--
"And that's the name of that tune." -Blake.
Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3>
The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>
Sick Mind
"Will Dockery" <shamank...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Karla wrote:
>> "Sick Mind" <boro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>>>> Catholic
I am sure that back then there were people just as confused as you. I
doubt you ar they could make a case for anything.
--
Sick Mind
boro...@att.net
Will Dockery
Sick Mind wrote:
> "Will Dockery" wrote
I'm not a Catholic, in fact you can perish the thought, but apparently
these Roman Gods are *still* in the catholic roll-books or whatever the
Hell they keep track of them with.
I *will* take a look, or else Karla-Konfusion can jump in and yammer at
me about it, in the meantime.
> >>>> Their words
> >>>> hang upon the willows sleeping
> >>>> and their guitars are blowing in the wind.
>
> > A "Dylan plays for the Pope" reference. Nice.
"God Smiles/Sleepy Lizard Girl" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26881/preview/Irony_Waves_-_Track__5.mp3
"Greybeard Cavalier" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26663/preview/Track__1.mp3
Jani
"Sick Mind" <boro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Nd_3e.512013$w62.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Oh, c'mon, you've heard of St Mars, St Juno, St Venus? found in
stained-glass windows in churches everywhere! :)
Jani
Will Dockery
> "Sick Mind" <boro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:Nd_3e.512013$w62.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Will Dockery" <shamank...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
In a word, yes. The statues and paintings of Mary holding baby Jesus
are often originally Isis with Osiris.
I found this in the archives which covers the situtaion very well, for
now:
From: Scott Freeh (afn6...@afn.org)
Subject: Roman gods in mufti!
Date: 1997/10/26
First off, why should we have to pray to Jesus through Mary? Why do we
have to assume that Jesus will not grant a prayer request if it comes
to
him directly? Do some Catholics assume that their prayer is less
righteous so they need to enlist Mary as their agent to bring it before
Jesus Christ? Prayer through Mary, St. Anthony, St. Francis, St. Jude,
or any other vatican approved entity is contrary to what the Bible
teaches.
The entire concept of sainthood as expresssed in Roman Catholicism does
not make any sense at all. It is, as far as I can tell, often a very
thinly veiled pagan idolotry. Like the pagans of ancient Rome, the
Roman Catholic Church provides patron saints to many occupations. That
is the same as when they were worshiping Jupiter and the whole lot in
Rome. They had a god devoted to this or that. Now in Catholicism
there
is the same thing. Many of these saints have names that are remarkably
like their pre-Christian gods.
The god Mars became St. Martine
The god Osiris became St. Onuphris
The god Artemis became St. Artemidos
and in one of the most famous Catholic transformations:
Brighidt, an ancient Celtic deity, is now St. Bridget. Her fire was
legendary before Christianity came to Ireland.
Many of the sites in Rome formerly dedicated to Roman gods now have
chapels and churches dedicated to saints with Christianized names
sounding suspiciously like ancient Roman gods.
The Pantheon in Rome is an ancient Roman temple dedicated to the god
Jove. The Church stuck a halo over the head on a famous large statue
of
the Roman god Jupiter, and then renamed the statue Peter. This statue
of Peter is now revered by the Roman Catholic church to the point that
the popes and the faithful kiss the toe of the ancient idol. This mark
of reverence is actually a facet of ancient Baal worship. Now remember
that in 1 Kings 19 the Lord reserved 7,000 in Israel who did not bow to
the idol or kiss the idol which was Baal. The point seemed to be that
those who did bow to the idol or kiss the idol were less than pure.
The
statue's foot has been kissed so many times that the toes are wearing
away. I have seen a photograph of Pope John XXIII about to kiss that
statue. By the way, in the photo, the statue was dressed as pope with
the three tiered crown.
---
Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
with less difficulties.
--
"Mirror Twins" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/29000/29085/preview/Will_Dockery_-_03_-_Track__3.mp3
Stuart Leichter
> Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
> with less difficulties.
That's Millennium-Monday quarterbacking. The same hind-end sight is used to
explain porkeating and foreskins among the Gentiles embracing the early
Church.
Anyone who tries to peer that far into the past when there wasn't Google
will come up wrong. But it's a free country and you can believe anything you
want and say so.
Jani
"Will Dockery" <shamank...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112584207.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
No, they're depictions of Mary and Jesus. The dead giveaway is that they're
christian icons, not ancient Egyptian ones.
>
> I found this in the archives which covers the situtaion very well, for
> now:
This is from someone who thinks that Mars (male) becomes Martine (female),
that Artemis is a god, and that things with similar names *have* to be the
same thing. Couldn't you have found something with at least the tiniest
shred of credibility? Even christian historians don't argue that deities,
ritual and so on were gradually absorbed into christianity as it spread, but
it was a rather more complicated process than just picking a local deity and
hanging a new label round its neck.
Jani
Will Dockery
Well I could toss the Saint thing onto the backburner and go back to
the Mithras/Balder/Osiris et al myths that were tacked on to the Jesus
myth, and then the Saints come marching in, all the other pals from the
pantheons.
It'll take a minute, but I'll nail this one.
--
"Greybeard Cavalier" [0x0000/Fowler/Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26663/preview/Track__1.mp3
"Black Eagle Lady" [Conley/Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26894/preview/Irony_Waves_-_Track__1.mp3
Stuart Leichter
Dockery at shamank...@hotmail.com wrote on 4/4/05 10:04 AM:
>
> Stuart Leichter wrote:
>>> Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
>>> with less difficulties.
>>
>> That's Millennium-Monday quarterbacking. The same hind-end sight is
> used to
>> explain porkeating and foreskins among the Gentiles embracing the
> early
>> Church.
>>
>> Anyone who tries to peer that far into the past when there wasn't
> Google
>> will come up wrong. But it's a free country and you can believe
> anything you
>> want and say so.
>
> Well I could toss the Saint thing onto the backburner and go back to
> the Mithras/Balder/Osiris et al myths that were tacked on to the Jesus
> myth, and then the Saints come marching in, all the other pals from the
> pantheons.
>
> It'll take a minute, but I'll nail this one.
>
You'll come up wrong. Everyone comes up wrong. The butcher, baker, and
candlestick maker might believe you, but I won't.
Will Dockery
"Stuart Leichter" wrote
> Will Dockery wrote on 4/4/05 10:04 AM:
> :
> >>> Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
> >>> with less difficulties.
> >>
> >> That's Millennium-Monday quarterbacking. The same hind-end sight is
> > used to
> >> explain porkeating and foreskins among the Gentiles embracing the
> > early
> >> Church.
> >>
> >> Anyone who tries to peer that far into the past when there wasn't
> >> will come up wrong. But it's a free country and you can believe
> > anything you
> >> want and say so.
> >
> > Well I could toss the Saint thing onto the backburner and go back to
> > the Mithras/Balder/Osiris et al myths that were tacked on to the Jesus
> > myth, and then the Saints come marching in, all the other pals from the
> > pantheons.
> >
> > It'll take a minute, but I'll nail this one.
>
> You'll come up wrong. Everyone comes up wrong. The butcher, baker, and
> candlestick maker might believe you, but I won't.
Believe it or not, it's a clear-cut piece of history.
The Catholics have taked so much onto the Jesus myth over 2000 years that it
*will* take me a while to nail it, even more so since I'm not connected with
this group of murdering child molestors.
If Jesus saw how his poetry has been corrupted, he'd puke.
--
The Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
"Mirror Twins":
http://www.lulu.com/items/29000/29085/preview/Will_Dockery_-_03_-_Track__3.mp3
"Black Eagle Lady" by Will Dockery & Henry Conley:
http://www.lulu.com/items/84000/84578/1/preview/Henry_Conley_-_06_-_Black_Eagle_Lady.mp3
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the
process he does not become a monster. And when you
look into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you" -
Nietzsche, From Beyond Good and Evil (1886)
_________________
ggamble
<irony...@knology.net> wrote:
>The Catholics have taked so much onto the Jesus myth over 2000 years that it
>*will* take me a while to nail it, even more so since I'm not connected with
>this group of murdering child molestors.
Psst. Will:
I don't think your buddy chuckles pretends to be catholic anymore.
Blessed be!
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:47:22 -0400, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> >The Catholics have taked so much onto the Jesus myth over 2000 years that
it
> >*will* take me a while to nail it, even more so since I'm not connected
with
> >this group of murdering child molestors.
>
> Psst. Will:
>
> I don't think your buddy chuckles pretends to be catholic anymore.
>
> Blessed be!
Psst: Gary:
Do you dream of Chuck at night? Obviously he's almost always in your
thoughts.
"from Subterraneans" [Jack Kerouac]
http://www.kilbot.net/writing/subterraneans.php
"Charlie Parker" [Jack Kerouac]
http://www.kilbot.net/writing/charlieparker.php
"Some American Haikus" [Jack Kerouac]
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/kerouacspeaks.html
Stuart Leichter
irony...@knology.net wrote on 4/4/05 12:47 PM:
>
> "Stuart Leichter" wrote
>> Will Dockery wrote on 4/4/05 10:04 AM:
>> :
>>>>> Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
>>>>> with less difficulties.
>>>>
>>>> That's Millennium-Monday quarterbacking. The same hind-end sight is
>>> used to
>>>> explain porkeating and foreskins among the Gentiles embracing the
>>> early
>>>> Church.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone who tries to peer that far into the past when there wasn't
>>> Google
>>>> will come up wrong. But it's a free country and you can believe
>>> anything you
>>>> want and say so.
>>>
>>> Well I could toss the Saint thing onto the backburner and go back to
>>> the Mithras/Balder/Osiris et al myths that were tacked on to the Jesus
>>> myth, and then the Saints come marching in, all the other pals from the
>>> pantheons.
>>>
>>> It'll take a minute, but I'll nail this one.
>>
>> You'll come up wrong. Everyone comes up wrong. The butcher, baker, and
>> candlestick maker might believe you, but I won't.
>
> Believe it or not, it's a clear-cut piece of history.
Okay, Will. You sound exactly like the Holocaust deniers who also claim to
rely exclusively on "history".
It's now clear which side of the "history" fence you're on, Will.
>
> The Catholics have taked so much onto the Jesus myth over 2000 years that it
> *will* take me a while to nail it, even more so since I'm not connected with
> this group of murdering child molestors.
>
> If Jesus saw how his poetry has been corrupted, he'd puke.
You're not learned enough or educated enough to offer anything of value on
such matters; neither am I. But keep in mind that you're belittling an issue
called Faith or Belief. No proof is required for faith or belief, so stop
wasting bandwidth. It doesn't matter, but I'll stop opening your posts if
you persist in such waste because, like you, my Usenet ego concerns only me.
the messenjah
I was baptized a Catholic, did my first Holy Communion, several years
of Catholic school, Confirmation, and was even an Altar Boy for a
spell. The Mass was in Latin in those days... I got to ring the bells.
Woo-hoo!!!
There are 1 billion Catholics in the world, but only 4% of those
Catholics live in the United States.
On July 18th at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida I was
Baptised again. Total immersion.
I have never asked whether I'm still Catholic, or Baptist, or both.
I'm saddened that the Pope has passed, and I'd like to see the new
Pontiff come from Africa or South America where a lot of new people are
being Baptized Catholic.
I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. However, I
respect all religions because I have dabbled in most of them during my
search...
Will Dockery
"the messenjah" <theguyo...@veryfast.biz> wrote >
I thought the Pope was a pretty cool guy, more-or-less... Hell, he even
requested Bob Dylan to come over and play for him... and he did!
As for Jesus, I accept him as my personal trainer and the one and only
Original Shaman Kickboxer.
He wasn't a "Christian", though. That came 100 years after they ambushed and
*tried* to whack him, and his original classic poems were twisted for
whatever political group happened, or happens, to be in power at any given
time.
But as the Koran clearly shows... "they got the wrong guy"!
Google D.H. Lawrence and Christ for more info.
--
Will Dockery
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote
> Will Dockery wrote on 4/4/05 12:47 PM:
> >> :
> >>>>> Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
> >>>>> with less difficulties.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's Millennium-Monday quarterbacking. The same hind-end sight is
> >>> used to
> >>>> explain porkeating and foreskins among the Gentiles embracing the
> >>> early
> >>>> Church.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone who tries to peer that far into the past when there wasn't
> >>>> will come up wrong. But it's a free country and you can believe
> >>> anything you
> >>>> want and say so.
> >>>
> >>> Well I could toss the Saint thing onto the backburner and go back to
> >>> the Mithras/Balder/Osiris et al myths that were tacked on to the Jesus
> >>> myth, and then the Saints come marching in, all the other pals from
the
> >>> pantheons.
> >>>
> >>> It'll take a minute, but I'll nail this one.
> >>
> >> You'll come up wrong. Everyone comes up wrong. The butcher, baker, and
> >> candlestick maker might believe you, but I won't.
> >
> > Believe it or not, it's a clear-cut piece of history.
>
> Okay, Will. You sound exactly like the Holocaust deniers who also claim to
> rely exclusively on "history".
>
> It's now clear which side of the "history" fence you're on, Will.
History's more than a "fence": history is a Wall.
> > The Catholics have taked so much onto the Jesus myth over 2000 years
that it
> > *will* take me a while to nail it, even more so since I'm not connected
with
> > this group of murdering child molestors.
> >
> > If Jesus saw how his poetry has been corrupted, he'd puke.
>
> You're not learned enough or educated enough to offer anything of value on
> such matters; neither am I. But keep in mind that you're belittling an
issue
> called Faith or Belief. No proof is required for faith or belief, so stop
> wasting bandwidth. It doesn't matter, but I'll stop opening your posts if
> you persist in such waste because, like you, my Usenet ego concerns only
me.
Hey, man, you *nailed* it again: Faith, belief and Ego.
And Gods. And Kris Kristofferson.
PJR
> I was baptized a Catholic, did my first Holy Communion, several
> years of Catholic school, Confirmation, and was even an Altar Boy
> for a spell. The Mass was in Latin in those days... I got to ring
> the bells. Woo-hoo!!!
So you were abused by a priest, not by your father. Or maybe a priest
was your father? Since you don't know who your father was, it's quite
possible.
> There are 1 billion Catholics in the world, but only 4% of those
> Catholics live in the United States.
What percentage of racist pedo-clowns have worked out how to use
Google for primitive searches? You can't be the only one.
> On July 18th at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida I was
> Baptised again. Total immersion.
Was there a flood while you were watching Dr Jerry "Cracker" Vines on
TV? I hope it didn't carry your beanbag chair away.
> I have never asked whether I'm still Catholic, or Baptist, or both.
Or Rastafarian, or Wiccan, or...
> I'm saddened that the Pope has passed, and I'd like to see the new
> Pontiff come from Africa or South America where a lot of new people
> are being Baptized Catholic.
It would be nice for you and Dr Jerry "Hick" Vines to be able to call
him racist names, wouldn't it?
> I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior.
Yeah, but you also believe you're good-looking. Why can't you stop
fooling yourself, chuckles?
> However, I respect all religions
Do I have to Google your comments about Islam, chuckles?
> because I have dabbled in most of them during my search...
Fuck you, chuckles. I was drinking coffee when I read that. Now I have
to clean under the space bar again.
> http://skywriter.diaryland.com
I must remember to update my archive of the Blaaaargh before anything
happens to it.
PJR :-)
--
alt.usenet.kooks award-winners and FAQ:
http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/
[To reply by email, remove "NOSPAM".]
Sick Mind
"Will Dockery" <shamank...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Jani wrote:
> > "Sick Mind" <boro...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> > > "Will Dockery" <shamank...@hotmail.com> wrote
< ... >
< ... >
>>>> The Catholics also converted many Roman Gods into Saints.
>>> I am sure that back then there were people just as confused as
>>> you. I doubt you or they could make a case for anything.
>> Oh, c'mon, you've heard of St Mars, St Juno, St Venus? found in
>> stained-glass windows in churches everywhere! :)
> In a word, yes. The statues and paintings of Mary holding baby Jesus
> are often originally Isis with Osiris.
Before that there was never a mother and child?
> I found this in the archives which covers the situation very well, for
> now:
>
> From: Scott Freeh (afn6...@afn.org)
> Subject: Roman gods in mufti!
> Date: 1997/10/26
>
> First off, why should we have to pray to Jesus through Mary? Why do we
> have to assume that Jesus will not grant a prayer request if it comes
> to
> him directly? Do some Catholics assume that their prayer is less
> righteous so they need to enlist Mary as their agent to bring it before
> Jesus Christ? Prayer through Mary, St. Anthony, St. Francis, St. Jude,
> or any other Vatican approved entity is contrary to what the Bible
> teaches.
>
> The entire concept of sainthood as expressed in Roman Catholicism does
> not make any sense at all. It is, as far as I can tell, often a very
> thinly veiled pagan idolatry. Like the pagans of ancient Rome, the
> Roman Catholic Church provides patron saints to many occupations. That
> is the same as when they were worshiping Jupiter and the whole lot in
> Rome. They had a god devoted to this or that. Now in Catholicism
> there
> is the same thing. Many of these saints have names that are remarkably
> like their pre-Christian gods.
>
> The god Mars became St. Martine
Few realize Michael the Archangel was the sequel to the roman god Mars.
> The god Osiris became St. Onuphris
> The god Artemis became St. Artemidos
All this proves is that the Catholics did not invent a new alphabet,
which is what they would have had to do to avoid similarities like that.
> and in one of the most famous Catholic transformations:
>
> Brighidt, an ancient Celtic deity, is now St. Bridget. Her fire was
> legendary before Christianity came to Ireland.
>
> Many of the sites in Rome formerly dedicated to Roman gods now have
> chapels and churches dedicated to saints with Christianized names
> sounding suspiciously like ancient Roman gods.
>
> The Pantheon in Rome is an ancient Roman temple dedicated to the god
> Jove. The Church stuck a halo over the head on a famous large statue
> of
> the Roman god Jupiter, and then renamed the statue Peter. This statue
> of Peter is now revered by the Roman Catholic church to the point that
> the popes and the faithful kiss the toe of the ancient idol. This mark
> of reverence is actually a facet of ancient Baal worship. Now remember
> that in 1 Kings 19 the Lord reserved 7,000 in Israel who did not bow to
> the idol or kiss the idol which was Baal. The point seemed to be that
> those who did bow to the idol or kiss the idol were less than pure.
> The
> statue's foot has been kissed so many times that the toes are wearing
> away. I have seen a photograph of Pope John XXIII about to kiss that
> statue. By the way, in the photo, the statue was dressed as pope with
> the three tiered crown.
Why isn't a cross a "graven image"? It seems all Christians, Catholic
or not, use those a lot.
> Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
> with less difficulties.
Have you ever had to decide which is kookier and just couldn't?
--
Sick Mind
boro...@att.net
Will Dockery
Sick Mind wrote:
> "Will Dockery" wrote
>
>
> < ... >
>
> >>>> The Catholics also converted many Roman Gods into Saints.
>
> >>> I am sure that back then there were people just as confused as
> >>> you. I doubt you or they could make a case for anything.
>
> >> Oh, c'mon, you've heard of St Mars, St Juno, St Venus? found in
> >> stained-glass windows in churches everywhere! :)
>
> > In a word, yes. The statues and paintings of Mary holding baby Jesus
> > are often originally Isis with Osiris.
>
> Before that there was never a mother and child?
May have been Mithras and his mama, actually.
When Christ and his posse return to kick ass, the last thing he'll want to
see is a cross.
> > Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
> > with less difficulties.
----
From: K
Subject: Re: Datarat is a Breaker of Gods law and is lying.
View: Complete Thread (200 articles)
Date: 2000-10-03 12:39:59 PST
Dave, I found this article a while back. You should read it; you will learn
something of the Catholic church.
Here you go:
For 1600 hundred years the Catholic Church has claimed that they were the
Original Church. By "church" they do not mean the building of stone and
wood,
but rather the religion. Rescently they have begun mailing out booklets
that
tell people that they must be Catholic to be Christian.
I: What constitutes a religion?
A religion is any belief in a super natural entity that governs the universe
and its associated system of faith and worship.
"Faith" in this case, refers to theology, the belief in a god and the
definition of that god. This includes the accepted system for knowing the
god
in question.
"Worship" in this case, refers to the practices used to worship the god in
question. This includes the types of services, the times for these services
as well as any, and all "holy days."
II: What event or series of events determine the origin of a religion?
The origin of a religion is simply the point at which the defining faith and
worship of the religion in question came into practice.
Even when there is a defined leadership of a previous religion that converts
en masse, a new religion is formed due to the change in faith and worship.
III: What are doctrines of the Catholic Church?
Since the doctrines of the Catholic Church are very extensive, I will deal
only with the short list recently mailed to people in a booklet entitled
"Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth." Since this booklet was published with
permission of the Catholic Church and has passed the Catholic book censors,
there can be not argument that the doctrines described in the book are
actual
Catholic doctrines, though they obviously do not comprise the entirety of
Catholic doctrine.
"These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence
of
Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness
of
sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory,
Mary's special role and much more.("Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth" page 6)"
These are some of the beliefs that need to be examined.
Additionally, Catholic Church believes in "infant baptism, the inerrancy of
the Bible, purgatory, and Mary's perpetual virginity.("Pillar of Fire Pillar
of Truth" page 6)"
IV: Do these doctrines have their origin in the ministry of the Messiah?
Let's look at the origins of these doctrines:
1. Resurrection of the Messiah was part of Judaism for centuries prior
to
the coming of Messiah. It is still found in the Talmud; as such, it is a
Jewish doctrine. Messianic Jews of the first century were the first to
accept
the Resurrection of Yeshua (Jesus) as an accomplished fact.
2. The Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is not a biblical
doctrine
to begin with. Since the biblical prohibition of eating/drinking blood is
based on the presence of life in the blood (Leviticus 17:10&11), even a
spiritual change on the wine and bread would make it biblically forbidden to
consume them. This being the case, it is anti-Biblical to claim that the
Communion bread or wine has either the physical structure of blood of human
flesh, or the "presence"/life of Messiah.
The Babylonian religion of Mithraism (A Babylonian religion that worshiped a
sun-god who was believed to have been born to the Perpetual Virgin, Astarte
(aka: "Ishtar," "Queen of Heaven," "mother of god(Mithra)") on December
25TH.)
had a ceremony where their priests would supposedly turn a piece of bread
into
their god, Mithra, and the people would consume it. The Catholic
Encycolpedia
admits, "Mithraism had a Eucharist, but the idea of a sacred banquet is as
old
as the human race and existed at all ages and amongst all peoples.(The
Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, p. 404, article: "Mithraism")"
3. "The sacrificial nature of the Mass" is an idea that makes no sense.
The Catholic Mass was first practiced in the Fourth Century CE. This
Doctrine
cannot pre-date the Mass itself. Mithraism did have a ceremonial
consumption
or bread that was the body of their false god; this practice which predates
the First Century CE was seen as sacrificial in nature.
Furthermore, in the Sacrificial system described in the Bible, the
worshipper
brought and gave an offering to G-d, not the other way around. In the
Catholic Mass, the worshiper takes but gives nothing to G-d.
The Jewish worship services are based on the Prayers said in the Temple when
animal sacrifice was still in effect, in accordance with G-d's Commandments.
Since the Catholic Mass is completely different from the Prayers said during
the Sacrificial Offerings, it cannot have even a vicarious connection to the
Sacrifices described in the Bible. This being the case, it is indefencible
to
claim that the Catholic Mass has a sacrificial nature with respect to the
Biblical Sacrificial System.
4. "The forgiveness of sins through a priest" is another doctrine that
makes no biblical sense. Biblically, priests must be descended from Aharon
ben Amram, the first High Priest. This being the case, the Catholic priests
do not have biblical authority or eligability to serve as priests.
During the time of the animal sacrifices in the Temple, forgiveness was not
provided by the offering of animals; it was provided by G-d alone; the
offering of animals was simply G-d's prescribed method of apologizing to
Him.
Since the function of the priest is not valid without the offering of a
blood
sacrifice, there is no need for a believer in the Messiah to go though a
priest to seek G-d's forgiveness for their sins.
Furthermore, since there was no Catholic priesthood before the Fourth
Century
CE this Doctrine cannot predate the Fourth Century. So, both the office of
the Catholic priesthood, and the function are in opposition to the
Scriptures.
Forgiveness of sins though human agency has always been the doctrine of
Paganism alone. This Pagan theology is over 5000 years old.
5. "Baptismal regeneration," the idea that baptism represents a "born
again" experience, is a doctrine of Judaism that dates from 1500+BCE.
Mikveh
(Baptism) is used in Judaism for ritual purification, Raising of spiritual
level (Prior to Bar Mitzvah, ordination of a Rabbi, et cetera), as the final
step in conversion to Judaism, and when repenting.
6. "The existence of purgatory" Is an Anti-Biblical doctrine that was
adopted to increase the wealth of the Church through conning people to buy
"Indulgences." The idea of Purgatory was taught by Plato from 427-347 BCE.
Plato was helenizing a theology of the Cana'anite Molech worshipers, who
burned their own children alive to buy years out of Purgatory. Plato
removed
the child sacrifice element.
This theology was introduced to Catholicism by Pope Gregory in c.600CE.
Purgatory was not accepted as official Catholic doctrine until the Council
of
Florence in 1459.
7. "Mary's special role" and "Mary's perpetual virginity" are patterned
after The Babylonian goddess Astarte (aka: "Ishtar"). Astarte was called by
the titles "the Queen of Heaven," and "Mother of god (Mithra)." Astarte was
a
"perpetual virgin," who supposedly gave birth to Mithra on December 25TH.
There was undoubtedly influence from Isis worship as well. Isis was the
Perpetual Virgin who gave birth on December 25TH. Her sons were "Horus"(a
sun-god), and Esu (a god of healing). Isis was also served by temple
prostitutes and provided forgiveness of sins.
V: What are the Worship and lifestyle practices of Catholicism?
As Western culture and Technology have advanced, many changes have come to
the
lifestyles of Europeans and Americans regardless of religious faith. Since
it
would not be fair to discuss these in the context of the Validity of the
Catholic Church, we will bypass those and focus on the distinct elements of
lifestyle.
1. The holidays celebrated by Catholicism are not in the Bible. The
Primary holidays of Christmas and Easter were part of paganism.
Christmas is an amalgam of the Roman Holiday of Saturnalia, and the
Babylonian
holiday 'Natalis Solis Invicti.' Saturnalia celebrated the birth of Saturn,
father of their chief Pagan God Jupiter. Oddly, in their myths, Saturn was
killed by His son Jupiter. We cannot believe that the Messiah did away with
His Father. The myth of Saturn was derived from the myth of the Babylonian
god Ninurta. Ninurta was also honored one day in seven: on Sunday (Hence
the
name even in English).
Mithraism had a December 25TH holiday called 'Natalis Solis
Invicti'(Birthday
of the Invicible Sun)." This holiday celebrated the supposed birth of
Mithra
to the perpetual vigin, Astarte.
Another popular cult was the of "Sol Invictus" ("The Invincible Sun"). This
was a more "cosmopolitan" version of Mithranism which had been influenced by
Roman/Greek and Egyptian Paganism. This cult also revered 'Natalis Solis
Invicti.'
It seems a lot of Pagan "sun-gods" were alleged to be born on that day.
These
include: Crishna, Vishnu, Mithra(Mithras), Osirus, Horus, Tammuz, and Indra,
as well as these other false gods: Dionysus(Bacchus), Herakles (Hercules),
and
Budda (technically, a fasle prophet).
A. The Christmas tree is a Druidic idol; They would adorn an evergreen
tree to invite the "Magna Mater" (Great Mother, earth goddess) to inhabit
the
tree so that they could worship her. Gifts and objects to be blessed were
put
under the tree so that the "Magna Mater could bless them.
B. "Decking the Halls" with evergreen boughs and twigs was also Druidic
in origin. It was a way of welcoming "Magna Mater" into the home.
C. The Druids worshiped in rings of holly bushes, until the Romans
burned
them down. At this point, the druids began to worship inside; they would
dedicate the building to the "Earth Mother" by nailing a holly wreath to the
door.
D. Likewise kissing under mistletoe comes from the Odinist religion one
of their gods, Balder was killed by a piece of mistletoe, because of this
myth; they would kiss under mistletoe for luck and long life.
E. Christmas caroling is an adaptation of the early Druidic custom of
going from house to house demanding appeasement in exchange for pagan
blessings/magic charms, as they also did at Halloween.
Easter is the Roman/Greek/Babylonian Holiday of Ishtar. Ishtar was the
birthday of Ishtar (Astarte), who supposedly hatched from an egg (So, maybe
"Hatchingday" would be more appropriate).
The Greeks had a holiday on this day as well. This holiday celebrated the
return of the "spring goddess" Persephone, Queen of the infernal Regions,
from
Hades each year. The Greek myth goes like this: [Hades was lonely living in
the under world so he kidnapped Persephone, daughter of Demeter, goddess of
agriculture. Demeter became so sad, that she did not do her job and the
earth
would grow no food. Persephone married Hades and became Queen of the
Infernal
Regions. She would live in the underworld for four months each year and
that
was their explanation for winter.] Eos the "dawn/spring/fertility goddess,"
was also attributed for the coming of spring. Eos was a variant of Eatsre,
Eostra, and Ostara, among others. The festivals for Eos was marked by eggs
and Rabbits.
All of this is Pagan and in direct opposition to G-d's Holy Word.
This issue is addressed in Deuteronomy 12:29-31:
"When the LORD your God has cut down before you the nations that you are
about
to enter and dispossess, and you have dispossessed them and settled in their
land, beware of being lured into their ways after they have been wiped out
before you! Do not inquire about their gods, saying, "How did those nations
worship their gods? I too will follow those practices." You shall not act
thus toward the LORD your God, for they perform for their gods every
abhorrent
act that the LORD detests; they even offer up their sons and daughters in
fire
to their gods."
2. The rosary was used in Babylon as part of Astarte worship. The use
was to count prayers, and as a magic charm. The Catholics use the rosary in
exactly the same way.
3. The anti-Biblical moving of worship services from the Biblical
Sabbath
(Friday sunset till Saturday sunset) to Sunday was instituted by Emperor
Constantine and the Council of Nicaea, in 325CE. Sunday worship was part of
the Babylonian cults of Sol Invictus, Mithraism, and Ninurtaism.
4. The Communion (ceremonial consumption of wafers and wine) as a
ceremony separate from Passover was not instituted until 325CE. The
Eucharist
comes from Mithraism. In this ceremony the Priest or "Holy Father" would
chant spells over round bitsa of bread and supposedly change the bread into
the body of Mithra. The worshipers would then eat the bread taking their
pagan diety into them. The wine as blood also has root in Babylonian animal
and human sacrifices wherein the animal's blood was consumed by the
participants.
5. Veneration of the Pope. The first Pope assumed office in 365 CE.
Emperor Constantine had attempted to crown himself Pope in 325CE, but was
unable to consolidate enough political power outside the Roman Empire.
The fact is that the Messiah forbid the Papal Office in Matt 23. Not only
did
He condemn the word "Pope" (Father) as a title of religious office, He
condemned the Title and Office of "Rebbe" ("Master," the leader of a sect in
Judaism). The Catholic church has tried to cover this by changing
"Rebbe"("Master") to "Rabbi"("Teacher"). Despite the fact that the two
words
are spelled the same in Hebrew, there is a huge difference in meaning.
6. Praying to "saints." This is forbidden in the Bible (Ex 22:18 and
Deut 18:10). It is necromancy and evil. Pagans committed this vile sin
thousands of years before the Catholic church reared its ugly head.
VI: When did the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church come
into
being?
None of the theologies or customs of the Catholic Church actually date from
the First Century. The majority of Catholicism comes from Babylonian
paganism. The application of this paganism to an organization loosely
associated with the Messiah did not occur until the Council of Nicaea in
325CE. The amalgam of religions that we know as the Catholic Church did not
occur until the Fourth Century.
When all of this is taken into account, we must ask if the catholic Church
even worships G-d at all. Certainly, they worship a form of Astarte remaned
"Mary." They worship synthesis of Pagan gods that they have named "Jesus."
For those of us who have faith in the Messiah of the bible, we can take some
comfort in the fact that His real, the one he was actually called when he
walked as a man, is not Jesus; it is Y'shu`a (Salvation in Hebrew). Despite
this, many Protestants who use the name "Jesus" have learned enough from the
scriptures to be thinking about the Biblicaly correct Messiah even when they
use the Catholic name for Him.
----
Not only did the Catholics convert old Gods into Saints, but obviously
sifted through old legends and myths to make Jesus christ a "value added
savior".
Hope this helps.
--
"You're ruining American poetry, O'Hara!" -Jack Kerouac
"That's more than *you* could ever do, Jack." -Frank O'Hara
Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
"Autograph 0f Zorro" Mp3:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3
Jani
which sits there chopping up earlier religions to make new ones, aren't you?
You can find similarities between *all* religions if you look for them.
No-one, least of all Catholic theologians, argues with that.
The fanciful carol-singing Druids are funny though.
Jani
"Will Dockery" <irony...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:e01bb$4255be4c$18d62363$36...@KNOLOGY.NET...
Will Dockery
"Jani" wrote
> You really are fixated on this notion that there's some sort of committee
> which sits there chopping up earlier religions to make new ones, aren't
you?
No Jani, not *fixated* in the least.
There's many things I *am* "fixated on, but not this.
--
"Black Eagle Lady" [Conley/Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26894/preview/Irony_Waves_-_Track__1.mp3
"Evocation: Laura Redwood" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26961/preview/Irony_Waves_-_Track__6.mp3
Sick Mind
"Will Dockery" <irony...@knology.net> wrote
> Sick Mind wrote:
>> Why isn't a cross a "graven image"? It seems all Christians,
>> Catholic or not, use those a lot.
> When Christ and his posse return to kick ass, the last thing he'll want to
> see is a cross.
So is that why people wear them?
--
Sick Mind
boro...@att.net
COONY
along with the record.
Here's the parody:
Wavy Hair, Icy Lips
Warts grow on her big fat hips
Echo horses in the night
She's a hippo spirit, and her face can fright
Hoo Hoo Bitchy Woman
See how high calories fly
Hoo Hoo Bitchy Woman
She got the cellulite in her thighs
She held me right down in the night
Farting Eggos, flame did light
Crazy things in another room
and she ate a pot of chili with a big-o spoon
Hoo Hoo Bitchy Woman
See how high calories fly
Hoo Hoo Bitchy Woman
She got the cellulite in her thighs
I know you want to kill her
Let me tell your mother
Ya'll been fucking in the Devil's bed
There's some VD going round
It'll put you underground
She can poot all the night till you pee the bed
Hoo Hoo Bitchy Woman
See how high calories fly
Hoo Hoo Bitchy Woman
She got the cellulite in her thighs
-written by coony
COONY
COONYLOONY
How I wonder where your at
Up above the world so high
Like a TeaTray in the sky...
Double Double Toil and Trouble
Fire Burn and Cauldron Bubble
Will Dockery
Karla wrote:
> Catholic
>
> The saints are dying now. Their words
> hang upon the willows sleeping
A reference to the making of wands? Willow branches make the best wands
for magickal events, such as "bringing down the moon" to make
Moonwater.
> and their guitars are blowing in the wind.
Nice Bob Dylan Homage.
> The everything door swings
> on unoiled hinges.
Great line, wish I'd written it, reminds me of my grandfather's door in
his den that creeeeeeked rusty.
I *do* have a poem about that door, buried in the archives. An old
mahognany door, with a nice keyhole, though the key was long lost by
the 1960s when I'd hang out there and watch television Westerns with
him, on the carpet under the clouds of pipe smoke that hoovered.
I'll pull that poem out eventually, I appreciate the reminder. If
nothing else, this line makes the poem worth reading.
> The saints are dying now.
The Saints being in many cases transposed G-ds, not only greek, Roman,
Egyptian and Babylonian, but African and Irish as well, this gives me a
nice Wagerian image of Gotterdammerung, Ragnarok, that sort of event.
> No longer
> more popular than God, Peter, Paul
> and Mary weep by the rivers
> of Babylon. They tear their vestments,
> decline the host, saying
Beautiful line. Beautiful and filmic image.
> The saints are dying now. The state
> buries them with black armbands and
> rubber soul,
First verse Dylan, now, of course, Beatles. Black may signify the
demise of vinyl, but that *may* be pushing it.
I like this first part best, I see some pretty good stuff about runes
and other stuff be that's the best part, for me, for now, above.
Now a post from the archives explaining more about how Gods became
Saints to Catholics:
----
From: Nick_O._Jones (Nick_O._Jones)
Subject: Re: Questions on la Virgen del Cobre (long post)
View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.cuba
Date: 1998/01/16
Larry, we may have dumped a lot more information (not to mention
having side-stepped your original question) regarding
Afro-Catholicism. I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but
here is a little clarification. By the way, I'm still curious about
the significance of the image of Ochún you found. Perhaps you can tell
us a bit more about it.
The official name of the religion is Santería, and is also known as
"La Regla Locumí."
One thing you should know is that the reason African deities are
associated with Catholic saints is due to the fact that during the
17th and 18th century, religions other than Catholic were forbidden.
The African slaves came up with an ingenious solution; Adopt the many
Catholic saints, but give them African gods counterparts. After being
taught by the Catholic church about the life of a particular saint,
they would then try to relate it with one of theirs. This way, they
could still worship their original gods while not breaking the law.
This is how the religion came to be known as "Santería" (devotion to
saints.)
For example, Saint Barbara suffered at the hands of her own father for
her Catholic faith, even loosing her life rather than deny it. She is
depicted with a sword in her hand. Since she was one of the most
head-strong, agressive divinities, black slaves related her to Changó,
who is the god of thunder and rain.
Each African deity takes on various attributes depending on which
African tribe the devout originated. Changó can also be the god of
war, and of volcanos. He is generally attributed to fire.
It is interesting to note that Catholic saints have gender, since they
were human beings before being cannonized by the church, while Orishas
can be of either sex, or no sex at all. Changó is generally accepted
as male, but associated with a female Catholic saint.
Complicating things further, is the fact Cribbean islands were
colonized by various countries, including France, England, etc. Each
of these would bring slaves from different parts of Africa, who
adopted different Catholic saints for each of their gods.
Maferefún gbogbo orisha!!! Aikú Tié
(Praised be all orishas!! Health to you)
----
Hope this helps.
--
"Sure, I pray. What the Hell have I got to lose?" -Sean Connery
Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
"Mirror Twins" [Will Dockery]
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:41:26 -0400, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> >> Liar Will,
What's up, Gas-fly?
> >> is this self-referential jumble of typing anything close to what you
> >> consider to be a critique, you fucken illiterate moron?
> >
> >Call it what you want, Gas-fly Gamble, but I nailed the poem.
>
> Sure you did, Liar Will.
Yep, Gas-fly.
> You nailed it, really.
>
> Answer the question, Liar Will.
I answered you, Gas-fly Gamble.
> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
The answer, my friend, is in the post you keep snipping:
----
From: Will Dockery
Subject: Re: Karla / Catholic
Date: 2005-04-10 23:56:23 PST
Nice Bob Dylan Homage.
----
From: Nick O. Jones (Nick O. Jones)
Subject: Re: Questions on la Virgen del Cobre (long post)
View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.cuba
Date: 1998/01/16
Larry, we may have dumped a lot more information (not to mention
having side-stepped your original question) regarding
Afro-Catholicism. I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but
here is a little clarification. By the way, I'm still curious about
the significance of the image of Och n you found. Perhaps you can tell
us a bit more about it.
The official name of the religion is Santer a, and is also known as
"La Regla Locum ."
One thing you should know is that the reason African deities are
associated with Catholic saints is due to the fact that during the
17th and 18th century, religions other than Catholic were forbidden.
The African slaves came up with an ingenious solution; Adopt the many
Catholic saints, but give them African gods counterparts. After being
taught by the Catholic church about the life of a particular saint,
they would then try to relate it with one of theirs. This way, they
could still worship their original gods while not breaking the law.
This is how the religion came to be known as "Santer a" (devotion to
saints.)
For example, Saint Barbara suffered at the hands of her own father for
her Catholic faith, even loosing her life rather than deny it. She is
depicted with a sword in her hand. Since she was one of the most
head-strong, agressive divinities, black slaves related her to Chang ,
who is the god of thunder and rain.
Each African deity takes on various attributes depending on which
African tribe the devout originated. Chang can also be the god of
war, and of volcanos. He is generally attributed to fire.
It is interesting to note that Catholic saints have gender, since they
were human beings before being cannonized by the church, while Orishas
can be of either sex, or no sex at all. Chang is generally accepted
as male, but associated with a female Catholic saint.
Complicating things further, is the fact Cribbean islands were
colonized by various countries, including France, England, etc. Each
of these would bring slaves from different parts of Africa, who
adopted different Catholic saints for each of their gods.
Maferef n gbogbo orisha!!! Aik Ti
(Praised be all orishas!! Health to you)
----
Hope this helps.
--
Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
ggamble
>
>"ggamble" wrote
>> On 10 Apr 2005 23:56:14 -0700, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>>
>> Liar Will,
>>
>> is this self-referential jumble of typing anything close to what you
>> consider to be a critique, you fucken illiterate moron?
>
>Call it what you want, Gas-fly Gamble, but I nailed the poem.
Sure you did, Liar Will.
You nailed it, really.
Answer the question, Liar Will.
Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
> On 10 Apr 2005 23:56:14 -0700, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> Liar Will,
>
> is this self-referential jumble of typing anything close to what you
> consider to be a critique, you fucken illiterate moron?
Call it what you want, Gas-fly Gamble, but I nailed the poem.
> What the fuck is the matter with you?
I could ask *you* that, but the answer's obvious.
Can't stand Usenet, where you *can't* effectively moderate/censor, do you?
Look, Gas-fly, the piece is... back!
----
From: Will Dockery
Subject: Re: Karla / Catholic
Date: 2005-04-10 23:56:23 PST
Karla wrote:
Nice Bob Dylan Homage.
----
From: Nick O. Jones (Nick O. Jones)
Subject: Re: Questions on la Virgen del Cobre (long post)
View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.cuba
Date: 1998/01/16
Larry, we may have dumped a lot more information (not to mention
having side-stepped your original question) regarding
Afro-Catholicism. I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but
here is a little clarification. By the way, I'm still curious about
the significance of the image of Och n you found. Perhaps you can tell
us a bit more about it.
The official name of the religion is Santer a, and is also known as
"La Regla Locum ."
One thing you should know is that the reason African deities are
associated with Catholic saints is due to the fact that during the
17th and 18th century, religions other than Catholic were forbidden.
The African slaves came up with an ingenious solution; Adopt the many
Catholic saints, but give them African gods counterparts. After being
taught by the Catholic church about the life of a particular saint,
they would then try to relate it with one of theirs. This way, they
could still worship their original gods while not breaking the law.
This is how the religion came to be known as "Santer a" (devotion to
saints.)
For example, Saint Barbara suffered at the hands of her own father for
her Catholic faith, even loosing her life rather than deny it. She is
depicted with a sword in her hand. Since she was one of the most
head-strong, agressive divinities, black slaves related her to Chang ,
who is the god of thunder and rain.
Each African deity takes on various attributes depending on which
African tribe the devout originated. Chang can also be the god of
war, and of volcanos. He is generally attributed to fire.
It is interesting to note that Catholic saints have gender, since they
were human beings before being cannonized by the church, while Orishas
can be of either sex, or no sex at all. Chang is generally accepted
as male, but associated with a female Catholic saint.
Complicating things further, is the fact Cribbean islands were
colonized by various countries, including France, England, etc. Each
of these would bring slaves from different parts of Africa, who
adopted different Catholic saints for each of their gods.
Maferef n gbogbo orisha!!! Aik Ti
(Praised be all orishas!! Health to you)
----
Hope this helps.
--
Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
ggamble
> I'd me my
>I
>I'd
>I'll , I
>me
>I, I
>me,
>Hope this helps.
ggamble
<shamank...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Karla wrote:
>> Catholic
Liar Will,
is this self-referential jumble of typing anything close to what you
consider to be a critique, you fucken illiterate moron?
What the fuck is the matter with you?
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:06:25 -0400, "Will Dockery"
>
> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
>
Didn't I already read this, you burned out gas-fly?
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:01:52 -0400, "Will Dockery"
wrote:
>
> >> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
>
Calling me a Liar is the actual Lie, Gas-fly.
Here's what I wrote, take it as you please, Lying Gas-fly:
Nice Bob Dylan Homage.
Hope this helps.
--
ggamble
ggamble
<will_d...@knology.net> wrote:
>> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
Answer the question, Liar.
Will Dockery
"ggamble" <f...@net.com> wrote
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:35:17 -0400, "Will Dockery"
>
> >> >> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
> >>
> >> Answer the question, Liar.
Decide for yourself, Gas-fly.
From: Will Dockery (shamank...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Karla / Catholic
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems, soc.culture.cuba, alt.arts.poetry.comments,
alt.religion.wicca, alt.mythology
Nice Bob Dylan Homage.
--
Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
ggamble
>> >> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
>>
>> Answer the question, Liar.
>Calling me a Liar is the actual Lie, Gas-fly.
Reconcile these two statements, both from you:
1) No, I was aware that Gamble had posted critique *and* poetry in
the distant past, but not recently.
2) Gary Gamble is of course excluded from this, being incapable of
writing *or* defining critique, and perish the though that he should
actually have the guts to post a poem here:
On April 10th, you wrote that:
"No, I was aware that Gamble had posted critique *and* poetry in the
distant past, but not recently."
That's a direct quote from your post, Will.
On April 9th, you wrote that:
"I did read them, and a shame you can't hold up that well in the vast
majority of your posts."
Meaning that you did read my critique, and you considered it to be a
good one.
On April 9th, you admitted that you read the critique that I posted
only two days earlier, and you considered it to be a good one.
On April 10th you tried to wiggle out of your web of lies by stating
that you admitted that I had, indeed posted legitimate critique and
poetry here, but that it was in the "distant past" when only the day
before you admitted that you had read a legitimate critique (that you
considered to be well-written) that I had posted only two days before.
So, are you now going to attempt to argue that a post made only three
days previous is to be considered the "distant past"?
Or, could you just fucken admit (for once) that you fucked up and be
done with it?
You lied.
It's documented.
The lack of care you demonstrate with all your postings here is
indicative of the lack of care you take with all your writing.
That's one of the many valid reasons that you're considered an
ignorant, illiterate fuckwit by everyone with any sense who has ever
read your self-indulgent typing, moron.
ggamble
<will_d...@knology.net> wrote:
>
>"ggamble" wrote
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:06:25 -0400, "Will Dockery"
>>
>> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
>>
>> Answer the question, Liar.
>
>Didn't I already read this, you burned out gas-fly?
If you had read it already, you'd deny it.
If you hadn't read it already, you'd say you had.
Or, perhaps you'd admit that you had read it already, and then
contradict yourself a few hours later and say that you had never read
it, and then accuse anyone who points out your fully documented lies
of not telling the truth.
I you were capable of reading it, and you had any integrity
whatsoever, you'd admit that you lied, and then apologize.
But, you won't do that.
ggamble
<will_d...@knology.net> wrote:
>I answered you, Gas-fly Gamble.
Do You consider
what You pasted and typed
in response to
Karla's poem, *Catholic*
to be an
example of a critique?
ggamble
<will_d...@knology.net> wrote:
>
>"ggamble" wrote
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:28:21 -0400, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>>
>> >> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
>> >>
>> >> Answer the question, Liar.
>> >
>> >Didn't I already read this, you burned out gas-fly?
>>
>> If you had read it already, you'd deny it.
>> If you hadn't read it already, you'd say you had.
>> Or, perhaps you'd admit that you had read it already, and then
>> contradict yourself a few hours later and say that you had never read
>> it, and then accuse anyone who points out your fully documented lies
>> of not telling the truth.
>>
>> I you were capable of reading it, and you had any integrity
>> whatsoever, you'd admit that you lied, and then apologize.
>>
>> But, you won't do that.
>
>Because I didn't lie, Gas-fly.
Fucken hilarious.
You can't read, can you?
Will Dockery
ggamble wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:19:25 -0400, "Will Dockery" wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
> >> >>
> >> >> Answer the question, Liar.
> >> >
> >> >Didn't I already read this, you burned out gas-fly?
> >>
> >> If you had read it already, you'd deny it.
> >> If you hadn't read it already, you'd say you had.
> >> Or, perhaps you'd admit that you had read it already, and then
> >> contradict yourself a few hours later and say that you had never
read
> >> it, and then accuse anyone who points out your fully documented
lies
> >> of not telling the truth.
> >>
> >> I you were capable of reading it, and you had any integrity
> >> whatsoever, you'd admit that you lied, and then apologize.
> >>
> >> But, you won't do that.
> >
> >Because I didn't lie, Gas-fly.
>
> Fucken hilarious.
> You can't read, can you?
Can you still write, or are you the burned out Gas-fly I suspect you
are?
--
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:01:52 -0400, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> >I answered you, Gas-fly Gamble.
>
>
> Do You consider
>
> what You pasted and typed
>
> in response to
>
> Karla's poem, *Catholic*
>
> to be an
>
> example of a critique?
And, my answer was: you can decide for yourself:
----
From: Will Dockery
Subject: Re: Karla / Catholic
View: Complete Thread (36 articles)
Nice Bob Dylan Homage.
Hope this helps.
--
ggamble
Will Dockery
"ggamble" wrote
>
> >> Do You consider
Heh.
COONYLOONY
Now let's all blow bubbles out our assholes and sing
Zip-A-Zee-Do-Da-Day
Will Dockery
Indeed, Captain.
>From *the archives*, more on the strong connection of the Saints to the
Gods:
----
From: ricardo a gonzalez
Subject: Santeria in Washington
Newsgroups: soc.culture.cuba
Date: 2000/01/05
------------
The Spirit of Santeria
Once Largely Unknown in Area, Afro-Cuban Faith Attracts a Following
By Sylvia Moreno \ Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 4, 2000; Page B01
Minutes before midnight and the prayers begin. First to San Lazaro, or
Saint
Lazarus, considered a healer of physical and spiritual pain. Then an
"Our
Father" and a "Hail Mary," all in Spanish.
One by one, crowded shoulder-to-shoulder, the devotees light the 51
yellow
candles on the altar to celebrate the Feast Day of Saint Lazarus, or
Babalu-Aye. They take a small burlap bag of grains and seeds. Later,
they will
sweep it over their bodies to draw out any bad spirits. This is a
simple but
important moment, the high priest says. They have asked Saint Lazarus
to grant
one wish: "That next year, we have the health to light another candle."
The clock strikes 12, and the brick row houses along this quiet
Columbia
Heights street go dark in the bitterly cold December night. But here at
the
home of 72-year-old Eloy Hernandez, the day has just begun. His house
is ablaze
with lights and drumming and singing. For the 50 or so gathered in a
room off
the living room, this night's ceremony will last three hours, shorter
than
usual because tomorrow is a workday.
Hernandez is one of about a dozen high priests, or babalawos, in the
Washington
area who practice Santeria, an Afro-Cuban faith with roots in the
Yoruba region
of Nigeria. The religion originated with West African slaves who were
shipped
to the New World and forced by Spanish colonials to worship as
Catholics. The
slaves eventually adopted the same Catholic saints because they were
able to
identify characteristics in them reminiscent of their own African gods.
The religion, once largely unknown in the metropolitan area, venerates
saints
and incorporates a belief in divination, spirit possession and the
sacrifice of
animals to appease the gods. It has become more visible in the 20 years
since
the Mariel boat lift brought Cubans such as Hernandez to the District.
Santeria now attracts several thousand adherents in the region who
cross
ethnic, racial, professional and religious lines. There are at least
half a
dozen botanicas throughout the area that sell the wares that santeros
use: from
herbs and animal parts used for potions to candles to ceremonial pots.
Although many practitioners consider themselves Roman Catholic,
Santeria is not
recognized as a religion by the Catholic Church. The Vatican warns the
faithful
against all forms of "divination," which is defined broadly and
includes many
of the rites inherent to Santeria. "It is difficult for a Catholic to
practice
Santeria because of some of the elements it contains," said Susan
Gibbs,
spokeswoman for the Archdiocese of Washington.
Santeria is also controversial because of its use of animals for
sacrifices.
Practitioners gained significant protection from the U.S. Supreme
Court, which
ruled in 1993 that such rituals are protected by the Constitution.
"Inside
these four walls," Hernandez says, "no one can tell me what I can do
with an
animal."
But this is not a night for sacrificial ceremony. It is a festive
celebration
for Babalu-Aye, a saint, or orisha, honored for his reputed power to
induce
miraculous cures and for his compassion toward human suffering.
Amid the statues of Catholic saints and in a house bedecked with a
Christmas
tree and red stockings, Hernandez readies the room for the sequence of
songs
that will be played to invoke the major saints of the Yoruba pantheon.
He pours
white wine into a gourd and sprinkles it on the floor of his makeshift
temple.
"To sweeten the tongue and the words" that will be sung, he says. The
conga
drummer and guiro players are in place. A wiry dark-skinned Cuban
begins the
opening chant. Those assembled sing to Elegua, the fierce Yoruba
warrior who
guards the paths of communication to the spirit world and acts as the
intermediary between these human beings and Saint Lazarus and the other
saints.
"Do you see that lady?" asks Fanny Hernandez, the babalawo's wife. "She
was in
a coma at Washington Hospital Center, and the doctors didn't give any
hope. She
didn't open her eyes. Nothing. I cried and I prayed to San Lazaro.
Thanks to
God, she's alive and with her children."
Although most followers of Santeria are of Caribbean and Latin American
descent, whites and African Americans are exploring the religion.
"Personally, everything I knew about Santeria seemed so dark, a little
scary,"
said Karen Emmons, a Buddhist and registered nurse who drove from
Warfordsburg,
Pa., to attend the ceremony. "I come from a Christian background and
anything
that's not of the light is not necessarily good. So I had to move
beyond that."
But Emmons said she doesn't see much difference among religions.
"Everybody's
looking for happiness, peace and joy in their life," she said. "I think
there
is one God with many different faces and people need to see that."
An initiation ceremony takes three days, requires three or four high
priests
and costs several hundred dollars. Becoming a high priest is even more
arduous.
Hernandez said he has participated in ceremonies that have elevated
several
area devotees, including two African Americans and one non-Hispanic
white. The
seven-day rite requires 16 babalawos and costs thousands of dollars for
sacrificial animals, special clothes, herbs and other required
materials.
Hernandez receives payment--he said the devoted give what they can.
People also
pay for the initiation rites, with most of the cost going to pay for
the
accoutrements. Yet, the time and expense has not deterred people from
becoming
Santeria followers.
"These are confusing times. People are looking for answers everywhere,
and
religion is one of those ways," said Carlos Gimenez, of the Latin
American Folk
Institute in the District. "And for young African Americans, it is a
way for
them to get in touch with their roots."
In Santeria, the major saints have human characteristics and histories
that
evoke the mythology of the Greek gods. The names of the Catholic and
African
saints also are used interchangeably.
Chango, the warrior god of lightning and storms, is found in Saint
Barbara, the
patron saint of artillery. Oshun, the goddess of rivers, is much like
Our Lady
of Charity, Cuba's patron saint, who appeared to three young sailors on
a
storm-tossed sea. And Babalu-Aye, the god of health and leg ailments,
resembles
Saint Lazarus.
Nowhere is the interchangeability more evident than in Hernandez's
home. For 25
years, the house belonged to his sister, Caridad Salome, a Catholic and
strong
believer in the healing power of Saint Lazarus. She came to Washington
from
Cuba in 1954 and built the saint a large altar. Then she placed the
other
Catholic saints around the room.
Every December, she hosted a San Lazaro feast day celebration. Salome
died in
1990, and her husband, the musician Luis Salome, died five years later.
Hernandez and his wife now live in the house. His sister's display of
Catholic
saints remains intact, and he has added all the Santeria symbols that
correspond to the saints.
Hundreds of people visit Hernandez each year to attend ceremonies or to
have
him interpret special coconut rinds and cowrie shells. And now, on the
Feast
Day of Saint Lazarus, Babalu-Aye is honored with ritual African
drumming,
special offertory foods and other items.
"If you see anything on this in TV or the movies, it's a demonic,
satanic force
that moves thunder and lightning and gets people killed and there's
crazy
people doing animal sacrifices," says Luis Rumbaut, an assistant
corporation
counsel in the District, who does not consider himself a member of the
religion
but attends the celebration each year in homage to his Cuban heritage.
But for Hernandez, who was initiated into Santeria in Cuba as a child,
it is
all about religion. Before he dies, he said, he wants to establish a
temple for
people to gather and worship the saints and to be used for special
ceremonies.
He noted the proliferation of storefront churches. "Why is it
impossible for
us? Is it because of the type of religion it is or the color of our
skin?" It
should not be, Hernandez said. "These," he said, pointing to the men
and women
gathered to honor San Lazaro, "are normal people."
----
Hope this helps.
--
"Evocation: Laura Redwood" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26961/preview/Irony_Waves_-_Track__6.mp3
"Fawn Greyhound" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/26000/26968/preview/Track__3.mp3
Lady Chatterly
If you do not know what you are not.
>You nailed it, really.
Where did you get a lot of profound thought there either?
>Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
We have a problem with that.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Because I *plonked* him. He's harmless, but a waste of time. He just
wants to create newsgroup traffic. Sortof Lady Chatterly with brain."
-- Tilman Hausherr
Karla
wrote:
>
Thank you for your kind words.
This was first posted under one of the National Poetry Day topics (Cusp) about
the death of the Pope and Robert Creeley. The word "saints" is already fairly
loaded so I don't blame anyone for thinking I'm referring to Catholic saints.
I'm not. I'd hoped that there were enough pointers in the poem itself to
highlight a bygone era, some old faces, some old causes. Alas.
Of course, the beginning of the poem steals from Psalm 137:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20137%20;&version=49;
And throughout the poem, I borrowed from old lyrics or song titles. The poem
didn't end up exactly where I want it to. It relies a bit too much on
cultural references and not enough on fresh images. I will revisit it.
Karla
Will Dockery
We've had our personal differences, some manufactured and some even
imaginary, I suspect, but I call things as I see them, and this poem
hit this reader, which is the bottom line, as entertainment and as in a
personal way.
I also *liked* an earlier poem of yours, "Caring For Others", and hope
to get back to that one eventually, since I had some comments and
questions before everything got sidetracked by jousting with the
do-nothing haters of these newsgroups... and no, I never wrote *that*
poem was "terrible", not at all.
I wrote that some of the lines were "convolted" and not easy for *this
reader* to make it through... and compared it to some of the things *I*
have written, which is apparently what was latched onto by the jeering
hecklers. I do not consider my work "bad" either, so it boils down to
conflicting opinions as to what is good or bad poetry in the end.
> This was first posted under one of the National Poetry Day topics
(Cusp) about
> the death of the Pope and Robert Creeley.
Creeley was/is important to me, as I wrote in the thread one of the
latter-day Beats that made tribute to him.
His greatest infamy was when he briefly replaced Neal cassady as the
biggest "bad boy" of the Beat Generation, running with Kerouac, getting
tossed from bars, and even "stealing" Kenneth Rexroth's wife, sending
KR on a vendetta of bad reviews of the various Beats, when before this
he was quite supportive.
A case of letting personal problems stand in the way of truth.
> The word "saints" is already fairly
> loaded so I don't blame anyone for thinking I'm referring to Catholic
saints.
> I'm not. I'd hoped that there were enough pointers in the poem
itself to
> highlight a bygone era, some old faces, some old causes. Alas.
As I wrote, these "bygone" images and references, to me, were *nailed*,
and well nailed, at that.
The title, "Catholic", spins it into that direction of "religion", I
guess, while the poem itself, spins it into a nice rememberance of some
of the best of the "counter-culture".
> Of course, the beginning of the poem steals from Psalm 137:
>
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20137%20;&version=49;
>
> And throughout the poem, I borrowed from old lyrics or song titles.
The poem
> didn't end up exactly where I want it to. It relies a bit too much
on
> cultural references and not enough on fresh images. I will revisit
it.
I look forward to the re-working, Karla.
Any comment on the continuing evolution of the Catholic faith and new
factions?
--
The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>
Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3>
j r sherman
says...
>
>Karla wrote:
>> Thank you for your kind words.
>
>We've had our personal differences, some manufactured and some even
>imaginary, I suspect, but I call things as I see them, and this poem
>hit this reader, which is the bottom line, as entertainment and as in a
>personal way.
>
>I also *liked* an earlier poem of yours, "Caring For Others", and hope
>to get back to that one eventually, since I had some comments and
>questions before everything got sidetracked by jousting with the
>do-nothing haters of these newsgroups... and no, I never wrote *that*
>poem was "terrible", not at all.
>
>I wrote that some of the lines were "convolted" and not easy for *this
>reader* to make it through... and compared it to some of the things *I*
>have written, which is apparently what was latched onto by the jeering
>hecklers. I do not consider my work "bad" either, so it boils down to
>conflicting opinions as to what is good or bad poetry in the end.
actually, you said the poem, which you now like, was:
"basically a convoluted mess"
there was no "some lines" in your original post, liar dockery. there was "this
reader" comments in your original post liar dockery. you just called it a
convoluted mess."
also, you went on to say, as a poet Ms. Karla: "desperately need to focus"
i think you meant needed, but who needs to be accurate when you don't know what
you're talking about?
but now, of course, you like the poem.
your words are found here in google here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/29d0e2651aa9c901?dmode=source
google, a wonderful tool to find the truth.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect."
Warren Zevon
------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Dockery
This is true, as I repeated today, JRS.
BTW, it's amusing to see a person who lies often and badly to call *me*
a liar, you whiney little liar.
> also, you went on to say, as a poet Ms. Karla: "desperately need to
focus"
>
> i think you meant needed, but who needs to be accurate when you don't
know what
> you're talking about?
Hmmm. I'll make a note to call attention to when *you* make a similar
typing error, JRS, usually when you're in one of your wordy whine
fests, which I suspect this will evolve into shortly.
> but now, of course, you like the poem.
Yeah, I "like" it, but I like the one called "Catholic" much better,
for the reasons I've listed at least twice.
If you knew even half of what you claim to know, or were honest enough
to admit it, which you clearly are not, you'd know that a judgement of
one poem has no bearing on the judgement of a completly different poem.
Feel free to dig a bit deeper and claim *that* isn't true.
> your words are found here in google here:
>
>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/29d0e2651aa9c901?dmode=source
>
> google, a wonderful tool to find the truth.
Plenty of truth to be found on Google if you care to look, JRS. You and
the truth are not that comfortable together, though, as you well know.
Hope this helps.
--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon
j r sherman
says...
but you did not tell the whole truth, dockery. you attempted to paint your lies
in a pretty picture, and it was up to me to point out entirely what you
originally posted.
back before you thought Ms. Karla is wonderful. because many of us have known
for quite a while that Ms. Karla is wonderful. this is something you've just
discovered. but what you're trying to do is say you've always thought Ms. Karla
was wonderful, which is a lie.
hence my calling you a liar, which you are.
>BTW, it's amusing to see a person who lies often and badly to call *me*
>a liar, you whiney little liar.
you are free to point out where i have lied, dockery. please post a specific lie
that i have told.
you won't, because you can't.
>> also, you went on to say, as a poet Ms. Karla: "desperately need to
>focus"
>>
>> i think you meant needed, but who needs to be accurate when you don't
>know what
>> you're talking about?
>
>Hmmm. I'll make a note to call attention to when *you* make a similar
>typing error, JRS, usually when you're in one of your wordy whine
>fests, which I suspect this will evolve into shortly.
my typos are beside the point, dockery, as well you know. the truth of the
matter is there was a time when you thought Ms. Karla wasn't a very good poet.
the reason for that is because she pointed out to you how ignorant you were
concerning certain poets in this newsgroup. so you condemned her poetry, not
because you know anything about the subject, but because she showed you that you
were wrong.
now you are attempting to say you never said or even implied such a thing. and
that is a lie.
hence my calling you a liar.
>> but now, of course, you like the poem.
>
>Yeah, I "like" it, but I like the one called "Catholic" much better,
>for the reasons I've listed at least twice.
i don't care if you like "Catholic" or not. that has nothing to do with this
discussion. you are attempting to imply that you've never said anything bad
about Ms. Karla's excellent poem "Caring For Others", when clearly you have.
you're attempting to say that you've never done that is a lie.
hence my calling you a liar.
>If you knew even half of what you claim to know, or were honest enough
>to admit it, which you clearly are not, you'd know that a judgement of
>one poem has no bearing on the judgement of a completly different poem.
i see.
but didn't you say you were able to accurately define Ms. Renay's writing
ability by just one poem of her's that you had read? you said that several
times.
this also makes you a liar.
>Feel free to dig a bit deeper and claim *that* isn't true.
sorry, dockery, you're the person who claimed that you could tell that Ms. Renay
was a bad poet based off a single poem of her's that you'd read. you're not
contradicting yourself, aren't you?
and this makes you a liar.
hence my calling you one.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect."
Warren Zevon
------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Dockery
Not "painting" anything, JRS, pretty or otherwise, and you haven't
shown a single lie.
> and it was up to me to point out entirely what you
> originally posted.
If you want to go with "entirely", you've left out plenty, little man.
Which makes you a liar "by omission".
> back before you thought Ms. Karla is wonderful. because many of us
have known
> for quite a while that Ms. Karla is wonderful.
Once again, JRS, "wonderful" is *your* word, not mine.
> is is something you've just
> discovered. but what you're trying to do is say you've always thought
Ms. Karla
> was wonderful, which is a lie.
Since you're playing so fast-and-loose with the word "Lie", JRS, this
repetition of you claiming I find Karla "wonderful" can qualify as a...
lie.
> my typos are beside the point, dockery, as well you know.
Then don't try to use mine against me, then, JRS, if typos are "beside
the point".
> the truth
> matter is there was a time when you thought Ms. Karla wasn't a very
good poet.
> the reason for that is because she pointed out to you how ignorant
you were
> concerning certain poets in this newsgroup.
You lie, JRS. I simply wrote the obvious about the poem, as I saw it.
> you condemned her poetry,
You lie again, JRS. I did not "condemn" Karla's poetry.
> because you know anything about the subject, but because she showed
you that you
> were wrong.
Another lie, JRS. But, since you take the time to create this fiction,
*when* did that happen?
> now you are attempting to say you never said or even implied such a
thing. and
> that is a lie.
Well, you're coming on with an entire "pack" of lies, here, with the
above lie being another of a fast series of lies.
> >> but now, of course, you like the poem.
> >
> >Yeah, I "like" it, but I like the one called "Catholic" much better,
> >for the reasons I've listed at least twice.
>
> i don't care if you like "Catholic" or not. that has nothing to do
with this
> discussion.
You're wrong, JRS. It has *everything* to do with this "discussion". I
wrote about how the poem "Catholic" was interesting and entertaining to
me, personally, as a reader.
You, who hasn't even made a comment on either poem of any worth, as
only here to lure me into another fight.
That, and your lies, being all you're good for on these newsgroups
anyhow, is no surprise.
You can't write any decent poetry, or even any decent comments on
poetry, after all. All you are apparently about to do is complain, and
of course, distort the truth.
> you are attempting to imply that you've never said anything bad
> about Ms. Karla's excellent poem "Caring For Others", when clearly
you have.
Wrong, JRS. You're simply wrong.
And a liar, of course.
> >If you knew even half of what you claim to know, or were honest
enough
> >to admit it, which you clearly are not, you'd know that a judgement
of
> >one poem has no bearing on the judgement of a completly different
poem.
>
> i see.
Good.
--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
Lady Chatterly
COONYLOONY <Coony...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Double Double Toil and Trouble
>Fire Burn and Cauldron Bubble
Wow. All of those words and ??
--
Lady Chatterly
"I've never read anybodies trash before but I do plan on pulling up
this Lady Chatterly in Google. funny" -- Dali
Lady Chatterly
If you do not know what you are a fart.
>You nailed it, really.
Where did you get a lot of profound thought there either?
>Do you consider what you typed and pasted to be a critique?
We have a Nice day.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Of course if you think I am wrong you should continue responding to
Lady Chatterly, if this helps you feel better about yourself......."
-- Josef Oswald
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> ggamble wrote:
> > <irony...@knology.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >The Catholics have taked so much onto the Jesus myth over 2000 years
> that it
> > >*will* take me a while to nail it, even more so since I'm not
> connected with
> > >this group of murdering child molestors.
> >
> > Psst. Will:
> >
> > I don't think your buddy chuckles pretends to be catholic anymore.
> >
> >
> > Blessed be!
Psst. gg:
Only Dorkery could speak with a straight face of "nailing" Jesus.
(But then we've seen his, ah, stuff; he's had decades of practice
in having absolutely no idea what comes out of his mouth or
keyboard.)
>
> I was baptized a Catholic,
We know. They changed the water three times, after.
(And there was /still/ a film at eleven...)
> did my first Holy Communion,
Was that like "doing" Sterno, then?
"...lifted you higher and higher..."?
(Real Catholics "receive," or colloquially "take," Communion.)
> several years
> of Catholic school,
Bah, humbug. Graduates of Catholic schools can punctuate real
sentences.
Usually with the comma-shaped ruler scars on their knuckles.
(Your knuckles are merely gravel-scarred from assisting your
locomotion.)
> Confirmation, and was even an Altar Boy for a
> spell.
Pfui. You can't spell.
> The Mass was in Latin in those days... I got to ring the bells.
Well, that explains the pot, the cast eyes, and the hunch.
But not the big, green, rhino horn.
> Woo-hoo!!!
>
> There are 1 billion Catholics in the world, but only 4% of those
> Catholics live in the United States.
Not nearly enough to prop you up, no.
>
> On July 18th at First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida I was
> Baptised again. Total immersion.
Psst, chucky: total immersion in your own shit is "blog," not
"baptism."
>
> I have never asked whether I'm still Catholic, or Baptist, or both.
Even though you /are/ stupid enough to think it's a question.
O, the restraint!
>
> I'm saddened that the Pope has passed,
You were spoZe to eat the /bread/, fadewit.
> and I'd like to see the new
> Pontiff come from Africa or South America where a lot of new people are
> being Baptized Catholic.
Instead, you get the former Inquisitor. TOOOooo bad.
(For /you/, anyway, heretic.)
>
> I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior...
...and rises up out of the Pumpkin Patch, bringing toys to all the
good little Baptists on Halloween...
(Provided it's /sincere/ enough.)
> However, I
> respect all religions because I have dabbled in most of them during my
> search...
Did you pick out all the corn and peanuts you really wanted, then?
(Unless they were them heathen /Muslim/ peanuts, of cuss.)
(No, no, no, chucky. "Muslin penis" is your cheap blowup
boyfriend.)
>
> http://skywriter.diaryland.com
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The most essential gift for a good writer is
a built-in, shock-proof, shit detector. -- Hemingway
http://scrawlmark.org
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> In article <1113164349....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
> COONYLOONY <Coony...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Double Double Toil and Trouble
> >Fire Burn and Cauldron Bubble
>
> Wow. All of those words and ??
...no attribution?
The first (snipped) bit was Walt Kelly.
>
> --
> Lady Chatterly
>
> "I've never read anybodies trash before but I do plan on pulling up
> this Lady Chatterly in Google. funny" -- Dali
Will Dockery
The one, the only... Karla Rogers and her poem "Catholic".
Will Dockery
> Lady Chatterly wrote:
> > In article <1113164349....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
> > COONYLOONY <Coony...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >Double Double Toil and Trouble
> > >Fire Burn and Cauldron Bubble
> >
> > Wow. All of those words and ??
>
> ...no attribution?
> The first (snipped) bit was Walt Kelly.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43189/song-of-the-witches-double-double-toil-and-trouble
Song of the Witches: “Double, double toil and trouble”
(from Macbeth)
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt and toe of frog,
Wool of bat and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg and howlet's wing,
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Cool it with a baboon's blood,
Then the charm is firm and good.
-William Shakespeare
Will Dockery
Me and Karla Rogers in our truce mode.
😀
Will Dockery
😀
usenet...@gmail.com
> Right, 'truce', that's what's funny.
That is the closest Will Dockery can get to friendship. Most loathe him, a few tolerate him.
Will Dockery
Many people really do like me.
Ask Corey, he met dozens of my friends at Doo-Nanny.
😀
Will Dockery
😀
Will Dockery
>
> That is exactly my point.
Then we agree, great.
As you know, I had no mobile gizmo back when I met you at Doo-Nanny (while you did), so I never took photographs.
Now I use the mobile gizmo to get photos of my friends at the shows, and some turn out quite good, good enogh to get me job offers for gonzo photography of events, and profiles:
United Federation Of Musicians, Poets & Artists Facebook site:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/629438503762910/
and
alt.arts.poetry.comments, Facebook Edition!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/105463832836304/
Go ahead, don't be shy... have a look.
:)
driveby
Will Dockery
Mind your own business, my ignorant friend.
😀
driveby
> Here comes Jim Senetto, obsessed with my every move, as usual.
>
> Mind your own business, my ignorant friend.
>
> 😀
Will Dockery
😀
driveby
> Great, feel free to not come back, Jim Senetto.
>
> 😀
Silly man.........
Will Dockery
I say let them stay...
And you leave.
Get it now, Jim Senetto?
😀
michaelmalef...@gmail.com
Oh, right ... you did the same to me back in October.
This is supposed to be a poetry group, Will. Keep your Dylan friends in the Dylan group, and your poet friends (and enemies) in the poetry group.
Will Dockery
Since I didn't pick the fight, that move will have to be up to Jim.
😀
michaelmalef...@gmail.com
> Michael, if Jim wants to lay off these attacks he keeps making against me I would be pleased to renew our friendship.
>
> Since I didn't pick the fight, that move will have to be up to Jim.
Will Dockery
And like it even less now.
😀
michaelmalef...@gmail.com
> True, I didn't like Jim's tone.
>
> And like it even less now.
Brooke
Will has some real mental issues and self image problems. It's very apparent.
Brooke
> Here comes Jim Senetto, obsessed with my every move, as usual.
>
> Mind your own business, my ignorant friend.
>
> 😀
Will Dockery
😀
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
>
> > Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church
> > with less difficulties.
>
> That's Millennium-Monday quarterbacking. The same hind-end sight is used to
> explain porkeating and foreskins among the Gentiles embracing the early
> Church.
>
> Anyone who tries to peer that far into the past when there wasn't Google
> will come up wrong. But it's a free country and you can believe anything you
> want and say so.
Wise words from old friend Stuart we may all take a moment to consider, in our current discussion?
Brooke
> Like it or not, I'm taking photos of performers and events no other photographer is, and some are finding value in that.
If you get paid, how about showing us your portfolio and list of losers who pay you?
Will Dockery
Thanks for the feedback, though.
😀
Brooke
> Some would call your never ending obsession with me a definite mental issue, Brooke.
>
> 😀
Will Dockery
😀
Will Dockery
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 9:01:57 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > And like it even less now.
>
> You might try learning from your mistakes ... rather than repeating them.
:)
driveby
So my 'tone' will continue, Will, and will end when you apologize to your one time wife, Katherine, the mother of your children, for dragging her through the mud, publicly. Apologize here and I'll not say another word about it.
Will Dockery
But you are wasting your time badgering me.
I will tell the story of my life, with or without your permission.
You can expect no apologies for it, as I owe none.
Get it yet?
😀
driveby
Don't forget to add Kazoo player to that bizarre wiki.....
Get a job.
driveby
> Kazoo!
Bless you...:-)
Will Dockery
You seem to have enough problems without obsessing over and judging my life.
Go write a poem about it, fool.
😀
driveby
Go wash a find a job, you'll feel better...the hours you put in here are staggering... Now run off, I think I hear Pick calling