To Helen --- Edgar Allan Poe

[Victor Hugo III]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jdZ1NUjWg

Helen, thy beauty is to me
Like those Nicean barks of yore,
That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,
The weary, wayworn wanderer bore
To his own native shore.
On desperate seas long wont to roam,
Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
Thy Naiad airs have brought me home
To the glory that was Greece
And the grandeur that was Rome.

Lo! in yon brilliant window-niche
How statue-like I see thee stand,
The agate lamp within thy hand!
Ah, Psyche, from the regions which
Are Holy Land!

Tom Hanks reciting a poem (Edgar Allan Poe - to Helen)

[Michael Pendragon]

And what does the poem mean to you, Lady Bunny?

Michael Pendragon
"Memories... pressed between the pages just like fine wine...…........"
-- George "Lady Bunny" Sulzbach

[Will Dockery]

Good find, Vic.

😉

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 10:52:53 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Good find, Vic.

And what does the poem mean to you, Whiny Willie?


Michael Pendragon
“[T]here is a world of difference between talking or writing about something and actually doing it, whether it's having sex with kids or dousing people with gasoline and setting them on fire.”
-- George Dunce

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:16:40 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> A poem about Helen of Troy, Poe style.

I didn't ask you who "Helen" was (and, btw, you're only half correct). I asked you what you think the poem *means.* What about Helen of Troy? How could Helen's face bring him back to Ancient Greece when Helen died several centuries before Classical Antiquity? If this were a poetry class, you'd receive a failing grade for your "answer."

Care to try again?


Michael Pendragon
“There is no 'fact' of 'statutory rape'. 'Morality' -- like 'gnosticism', 'god', haKodesh Barukh hu, 'mysticism' -- are NOT definable, and for you to keep transposing your stultifying proto-fascism onto others is not accepted by me.”
-- Stephen “Lady Pickles” Pickering

[Victor Hugo III]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 10:46:08 PM UTC-4, Pendragon The Liar lied again....

> On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 7:37:27 PM UTC-4, Victor Hugo III wrote:
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jdZ1NUjWg
> >
> > Helen, thy beauty is to me
> > Like those Nicean barks of yore,
> > That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,
> > The weary, wayworn wanderer bore
> > To his own native shore.
> > On desperate seas long wont to roam,
> > Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
> > Thy Naiad airs have brought me home
> > To the glory that was Greece
> > And the grandeur that was Rome.
> >
> > Lo! in yon brilliant window-niche
> > How statue-like I see thee stand,
> > The agate lamp within thy hand!
> > Ah, Psyche, from the regions which
> > Are Holy Land!
> >
> > Tom Hanks reciting a poem (Edgar Allan Poe - to Helen)
>
> And what does the poem mean to you

What does the poem mean to you, Pendragon The Liar?

??

[Victor Hugo III]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:25:40 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 11:16:40 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > A poem about Helen of Troy, Poe style.
>
> I didn't ask you who "Helen" was

The poem is about Helen you nitpicky fruitcake fool.............

[Michelangelo Scarlotti]

But who is "Helen," and what is the poem saying about her?


Michael Pendragon
"A favorite movie.... I read it like a comic book....."

[Victor Hugo III]

Obviously a poem to Helen of Troy.....

A no brainer there..........

[Michelangelo Scarlotti]

Guess who hasn't got a brain.

It's a poem *to* Jane Stannard.

Poe is comparing her to Helen of Troy.

Care to try again?


Michael Pendragon

“It is my retirement....... Nothing more or less................ “
-- George “Lady Bunny” Suzbach, aging career panhandler

[Will Dockery]

That informaation is not in the poem, Pendragon.

:)

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:16:56 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> That informaation is not in the poem, Pendragon.

The poem is often titled "To Helen (Stannard)," but that's beside the point. A critical reading of the poem makes it abundantly clear that he cannot be addressing Helen of Troy:

Helen, thy beauty is to me

Like those Nicéan barks of yore,

"Of yore" means "of long ago." Since the fall of Troy predates recorded history, there isn't much history of a contemporary of Helen's to be drawing on; so it's a safe assumption that the speaker is addressing a modern woman as "Helen."

Similarly, the lines:

That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,

The weary, way-worn wanderer bore

To his own native shore

allude to both the travels of Odysseus (post-Trojan War) and the 10th Century (or earlier) OE poem, "The Wanderer" (which was, obviously, written long after Helen's time).

Further, in the poem's most celebrated lines,

Thy Naiad airs have brought me home

To the glory that was Greece,

And the grandeur that was Rome.

the speaker refers to both Classical Greece (500+ years after the Trojan War) and Rome (which, according to Virgil, was founded after the Trojan War) in the past-tense. His use of past tense means that the speaker must be from some period after the fall of Rome (approx. 1,600 years after the Trojan War), since no historical context is given regarding the speaker, we can assume that he is speaking from the date of the poem's composition (first published in 1831, but believed to have been written eight or more years earlier).

So, while you wouldn't be expected to know that the poem was addressed to Mrs. Jane Stith Craig Stanard (Jane "Helen" Stannard [Poe's spelling]), any educated reader should be able to draw the immediate conclusion that the poem is set in the (then) present day, and that a modern woman is being addressed as "Helen" as a means of comparing her beauty to that of the legendary queen.

Now, I've given you quite a good deal of information with which you can *begin* to explain what you think the poem means. I suggest you first acquaint yourself with "The Wanderer," as an understanding of it is crucial to any interpretation of Poe's work.

Care to take another stab at it?


Michael Pendragon
“Allen Ginsberg had sexual activity with a young man who was NOT 15, but 17/18, and he made a hyperbolic error in using the word '15'.”

[Will Dockery]

Thanks for all this background information, I'll read it with all these details i mind next time I read the poem.

[Michael Pendragon]

Which will be when Hell freezes over, or you write that long-promised Bukowski criticism... whichever comes first.


Michael Pendragon
“I'd think so, but never underestimate the stupidity of a troll.”
-- Wee Whiny Willie Dockery

[Will Dockery]

When I decide to read it again, I'll let you know.

:)

[Michael Pendragon]

Like I said.

Michael Pendragon
“Kids will play around with other kids, having been one, I know that, but consent laws are indeed in place to keep adult predators from legally seducing children.”

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 1:24:14 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 1:19:01 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks for all this background information, I'll read it with all these details i mind next time I read the poem.
> > >
> > > Which will be when
> >
> > When I decide to read it again, I'll let you know.
>
> Like I said

You are entitled to your own opinion, of course.

😉

[Victor Hugo III]

I just enjoy it as a poem....

I don't care about the back story..................

[Michael Pendragon]

Which is why I asked you what message you get from the poem.

If "Helen of Troy" is the subject of the poem, what does the poem say about "Helen"?

[Will Dockery]

I'm sure he's read the background on the poem by now, Pendragon.

:)

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:28:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> I'm sure he's read the background on the poem by now, Pendragon.

Good. Then he can examine the poem as having been addressed to Jane Stannard (Stanard).

That is, he could if he had any idea how to read a poem, or to glean any semblance of meaning from one.

The same, I'm sorry to say, applies to you.

"To Helen (Stannard)" is a very brief poem, and while much of it is open to interpretation, a basic understanding of the content and meaning should be readily perceived by anyone with average reading comprehension skills.

Tellingly, neither you or your sock has managed to progress beyond the title (which you got wrong).

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:33:31 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> Good. Then he can examine the poem as having been addressed to Jane Stannard (Stanard)

Why would he bother?

[Michael Pendragon]

Why would he bother posting a link to Tom Hanks' reading of it here?

Since he saw fit to share this poem with us, he must have found something in it he deemed worthy of our attention.

I'm merely leading him (and you) through the steps to having an intelligent poetry *discussion*.

Just think -- if you and Bunny could actually discuss poetry beyond such infantile exchanges as "I likes........I likes............" followed by a "Thanks for the nod" this might start to resemble a poetry discussion group.

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 12:12:26 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> he must have found something in it he deemed worthy of our attention

Maybe, or maybe he's just a Tom Hanks fan.

;)

[Victor Hugo III]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:16:56 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>

> That informaation is not in the poem, Pendragon.
>
> :)

I just read it as an enjoyable piece of poetry.......

[Michael Pendragon]

Did you have any idea what it was about?

[Will Dockery]

I do...

Now that you've explained it to me.

:)

[Michael Pendragon]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 9:19:21 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> I do...
>
> Now that you've explained it to me.

I haven't explained it at all. I merely showed you that it wasn't addressed to Helen of Troy.

What is Poe saying to "Helen" in the poem?

[Will Dockery]

When I read the poem again I'll look for that.

😉

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 10:46:08 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 7:37:27 PM UTC-4, Victor Hugo III wrote:
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jdZ1NUjWg
> >
> > Helen, thy beauty is to me
> > Like those Nicean barks of yore,
> > That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,
> > The weary, wayworn wanderer bore
> > To his own native shore.
> > On desperate seas long wont to roam,
> > Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
> > Thy Naiad airs have brought me home
> > To the glory that was Greece
> > And the grandeur that was Rome.
> >
> > Lo! in yon brilliant window-niche
> > How statue-like I see thee stand,
> > The agate lamp within thy hand!
> > Ah, Psyche, from the regions which
> > Are Holy Land!
> >
> > Tom Hanks reciting a poem (Edgar Allan Poe - to Helen)
>

> And what does the poem mean to you

I took it to be like many other poems for Mythic beings such as Percy Bysshe Shelley - 'Adonais':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDHzVkfASb4

[Will Dockery]

That's pretty much the way I read it, also, Rex.

[Michael Pendragon]

I didn't ask you about Shelley's poetry, Bunny -- I asked you about "To Helen."

First off, Helen of Troy is legendary, not mythical. But even if it draws on Greek legend and mythology like Shelley, what does the poem use that mythology to say?

Poe addressed his poem "To Helen." And we know that "Helen" is Jane Stanard. Mrs. Stanard was the mother of one of his boyhood friends (Poe was in his early teens at the time), and Poe idolized her. She died when he was 14 years old.

It is unknown whether he wrote, and presented the poem to her, while she was alive, or if he wrote it some years later in memory of her.

So forget about Shelley (and any other Romantic poet who drew on the literature of Classical Greece), and forget about Helen of Troy, and focus on Poe's words. He is saying something both to, and about, Jane Stanard.

What is he saying *to* her?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 11:11:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> That's pretty much the way I read it, also, Rex.

That isn't a "reading" at all.

The meaning of the poem isn't that it's like "Adonais." Shakespeare's "Sonnet 130" is like a lot of other Elizabethan sonnets, but that isn't what it's about.

It's only 15 relatively short lines. It's really not that difficult to figure out what Poe is saying to, and about, "Helen." Look up whatever words you're unfamiliar with, think about what he's saying and apply it to his relationship with Jane Stanard.

[Will Dockery]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 7:37:27 PM UTC-4, Rex Hunter Jr. wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jdZ1NUjWg
>
> Helen, thy beauty is to me
> Like those Nicean barks of yore,
> That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,
> The weary, wayworn wanderer bore
> To his own native shore.
> On desperate seas long wont to roam,
> Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
> Thy Naiad airs have brought me home
> To the glory that was Greece
> And the grandeur that was Rome.
>
> Lo! in yon brilliant window-niche
> How statue-like I see thee stand,
> The agate lamp within thy hand!
> Ah, Psyche, from the regions which
> Are Holy Land!

Okay, help me out here, Pendragon... I've read this poem, and besides the back story added on, not within the poem, I'm seeing nothing that could
place "Jane Stanard" in the poem. Where do you see Jane /become/ Helen in the poem?

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

I noticed that myself...……

Perhaps you can dazzle us with your expertise Pendragon...?? ?

[Michael Pendragon]

We've been over this, Will -- do try to pay attention. Poe refers to Classical Greece in the past tense; since Classical Greece post-dated the Trojan War (and, thus, Helen) by 500 years, the speaker cannot possibly be addressing his poem to Helen of Troy. We must therefore conclude that his poem is addressed to a contemporary woman, and that he is addressing as "Helen" in order to equate her beauty with that of the Greek Queen whose legendary beauty "launched a thousand ships."

You don't need to know that the real life woman he'd addressed as "Helen" was Jane Stanard; nor do you need to know that Mrs. Stanard was the mother of one of his boyhood friends, or that she had died when Poe was still a boy of 15 (although he was 13-14 when he knew her). This information can help you with your interpretation (as it places the poem's subject in a specific context within Poe's life), but it is not necessary. The only thing you *need* to know in order to understand the poem's message is that it is addressed to a woman who lived long after the time of Helen of Troy.

I am now going to walk you through the process of interpreting a poem (something your high school teacher, Dan Barfly, apparently failed to do). I suggest that you pay close attention as it will provide you with a model for your Bukowski essay (should you ever gain the confidence to attempt it).

Helen, thy beauty is to me

Like those Nicéan barks of yore,

This passage provides with the following information:

1) that Poe is addressing a contemporary woman ("thy beauty is" denotes present tense);

2) that Poe considers her beauty so great as to warrant a comparison with that of the fabled Helen of Troy; and,

3) that he beauty transports him (metaphorically) back to the age of fable when the Trojan War took place ("of yore" denotes an era in the distant past).

Poe's reference to "Nicéan barks" has always been a topic of scholarly debate, as it is one of many words Poe coined in his writings. It appears to be a combination of "Phoenician" with an allusion to the Greed Goddess of Victory, "Nike." Since Troy was of Phoenician origin, the passage refers to Paris' triumphant return to Troy from Sparta with the kidnapped Helen in tow.

Poe says that his "Helen's" beauty is like those ships to him. This has several overlapping meanings:

1) That her beauty makes him want to play the role of Paris and to steal her away from her husband;

2) that her beauty makes him feel as Paris must have felt when he was returning to his homeland with the world's most beautiful woman as his bride; and,

3) that her beauty brings his spirit "home" to the Classical Age it feels akin to. (Poe had studied Classical literature in school and excelled in Latin composition.)

That gently, o'er a perfumed sea,
The weary, wayworn wanderer bore
To his own native shore.

The "weary, wayworn wanderer" is ostensibly Paris (in keeping with the aforementioned allusion), but it is also both a reference to the Old English poem "The Wanderer," and to the poet himself.

Paris, of course, is returning home with his dream-bride. He has wandered the known world, grown weary of its distractions, and has turned his back on worldly delights in favor of a communion with his soul (idealized in Helen).

The titular "wanderer" of the OE poem is similarly returning from his adventures with a similar weariness of the pleasures offered by the material world and a newfound sense of spirituality exemplified through his communion with the Christian God.

Poe, though only a young teen at the time (he was probably only 14 at their last meeting), was of a kindred mindset, having grown wise (to the sufferings of life) before his time, due to the death of his parents when he was three, and to his rejection of the mundane world (a position in his foster father's successful import-export business) in favor of pursuing a far less lucrative career in the arts.

While the interplay of the overlapping levels of meaning provides for a richer understanding of the poem, all you really need to know is that the passage represents the feeling of spiritual fulfillment of sailing home with one's soul-mate (i.e., achieving a state of spiritual completion).

Prior to having met her, he sailed: "On desperate seas long wont to roam." IOW: his earlier life had been fraught with emotional upheaval (symbolized by the stormy seas). However,

Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
Thy Naiad airs have brought me home
To the glory that was Greece
And the grandeur that was Rome.

Hyacinth hair is red (the flower, according to Greek mythology, having sprung from Hyacinth's blood). Helen of Troy was a redhead. I don't know if Jane Stanard was also a redhead; however, Poe always addressed her "Helen" as an acknowledgement of her beauty.

A Naiad is a water nymph (associated with brooks, streams and rivers). Poe's "Helen" is therefore a nymph, a Muse, a magickal, demi-goddess who transports his spirit back to the glory and grandeur of Classical Antiquity.

And, as a demi-goddess, she takes on certain aspects of the mother imago (leading and nurturing the young man) which is generally accepted to have played a dominant role in both Poe's poetry and his personal life.

In terms of the poem itself, you only need to know that "Helen" serves as a river nymph, sweeping the poet's soul toward its fulfillment.

Lo! in yon brilliant window-niche
How statue-like I see thee stand,
The agate lamp within thy hand!
Ah, Psyche, from the regions which
Are Holy Land!

Poe is comparing his "Helen" to a Greek statue Psyche ("Psyche" is Greek for "Soul," which she represents). Psyche was also the beloved of Cupid, and a goddess of love in her own right.

Jane Stanard was 16 years older than Poe, who at 14, was still in many ways a boy; and the parallel between Psyche (a beautiful woman) and Cupid (usually depicted as a boy) should be obvious -- as should the extension of the mother imago symbolism.

IOW: The speaker's love for an earthly woman (in this case, "Helen" Stanard, although any beloved woman would perform a similar role) has transformed her into both his Muse (his source of poetical and spiritual inspiration) and a projection of the goddess of love (in its highest, noblest form: agape -- the spiritual union of kindred souls).

The agate (a semi-precious stone) extends the statue metaphor, and imparts a permanent/eternal quality to the lamp. It also presents "Helen" in the posture of the Hermit (one who has cloistered him/herself off from the world in order to pursue, and via the lamp, impart, spiritual knowledge).

This, again, stresses the mother imago through the seer/acolyte, student/pupil relationship between the light-bringing statue being addressed and the poet addressing her.

To summarize: Poe is telling Mrs. Stanard that she is his "Lady Soul," and that his love for her is of the highest, spiritual sort; that he worships her as a goddess, is inspired by her as a Muse, and that knowing her has brought a sense of "completion" to his troubled spirit.

[Hieronymous Corey]

Great post, Michael.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 11:07:22 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
> Great post, Michael.

Thanks, Corey.

[Hieronymous Corey]

Please, just call me Hieronymous.

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 11:07:22 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Great post

For once we agree, H.C.

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

Obviously not.

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 12:06:53 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Obviously not.

Why is that?

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

I can't tell you why you don't agree with me. I just know that you don't. For
some reason, you chose to post-edit my comment, and address me as H.C.

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 12:17:07 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> I can't tell you why you don't agree with me

I didn't think you could, Hieronymous.

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

Michael was addressing you specifically with his post.
If you really thought it was a great post, you'd at least
thank him for his effort in your regard, if not engage in
discussing the thoughtful points he raises. As if. LOL.

[Michael Pendragon]

Exactly.

You see, Will, I have spent the past two days attempting to engage you and/or your Bunny sock in an actual discussion of a poem.

And, despite hand-feeding you pertinent information, the most I managed to get out of either of you was that the poem is about Helen of Troy, is about mythological figures, and is similar to Shelley's "Adonais" (Shelley's send-off to Keats).

I have now provided you with a model of what would constitute a "critical analysis" of a poem, which you can use as a model for any future comments you have to make regarding any other poems posted here. (Needless to say, my expectations of this ever coming about are slim to non-existent.)

It also provides you with ready-made format in which to address each of my points. (I am, after all, not a professional scholar, and my views are open to discussion.)

If you agree with the spirit of my earlier post (that we should focus on using this group for poetry discussion, criticism and analysis, then you can demonstrate your agreement by participating in the same.

This goes back to a proposed FAQ for this group that I've discussed several times in the past:

Do not post/repost someone else's poem unless you have something to say about it.

If you're going to post Poe's "To Helen" (along with a video of Tom Hanks reading it), you need to posts your own thoughts on the poem and/or video as well.

For instance, you might introduce it to the group as follows:

I was watching something on youtube last night, when Tom Hanks' reading of Poe's "To Helen (Stannard)" popped up in the sidebar. I thought that Hanks' delivery failed to capture what I consider to be the poem's mood/tone/meaning, and here is why: (Post Your Own Thoughts On the Subject Here).

Or, if "Luna Baedeker" arrives in your email from Poem-a-Day, and you feel a need to post it, again, add an appropriate introduction:

I found this poem by Mina Loy in my email from Poem-a-Day, and must confess that I've never heard of her or it before. Does anyone here have any knowledge of her/her poem that they could share? I didn't understand everything in the poem, but here's what I was able to glean from it: (Post Your Own Thoughts On the Subject Here). Does anyone agree, disagree, or have any further insight to add?

In both examples, be sure to thank anyone who responds, and to follow up on their responses with comments of your own.

[George J. Dance]

It was a common convention in classical poetry, which carried into the romantic era, to write about a contemporary but use a mythological name for the subject. 'Adonais,' for example, is actually about John Keats, who had just died at 25.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 2:03:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:

> On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 1:12:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > the most I managed to get out of either of you was that the poem is about Helen of Troy, is about mythological figures, and is similar to Shelley's "Adonais" (Shelley's send-off to Keats).
>

> Which, it turns out, is what I find most other writers have to say about the poem. For example:
>
> https://interestingliterature.com/2016/11/09/a-short-analysis-of-edgar-allan-poes-to-helen/
>
> "In this poem, as the title suggests, Poe addresses Helen – by whom he means Helen of Troy, reputed to be the most beautiful woman in the classical world. She was the ‘face that launched a thousand ships’, in Christopher Marlowe’s famous line about her from his play Doctor Faustus..."
>
> "Helen’s beauty, Poe tells us in the first stanza, reminds him of the boats (‘barks’) of classical times, specifically those boats which set sail for victory (‘Nicéan’ has been interpreted by critics as a nod to Nike, the Greek god of victory... The ‘weary, way-worn wanderer’, a delicious piece of alliteration, may refer to Odysseus..."
>
> https://shenandoahliterary.org/blog/2015/02/to-helen-by-edgar-allan-poe/
>
> "First published in 1831, his poem “To Helen” alludes to the infamously beautiful Helen of Troy. The poem explores the idea of a woman’s beauty, both in terms of body and soul..."
>
> And so on.
>
> "Jane Stanard" is mentioned as art of the back story of the poem but she is not named /in/ the poem.
>
> Thus, "Try not to mstake the speaker in the poem wit the writer of the poem..." -Karla Rogers
>

You should copyright the phrase "One Dumbass Motherfucker" and have it tattooed across your forehead.

[NancyGene]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 6:03:15 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:

> Thus, "Try not to mstake the speaker in the poem wit the writer of the poem..." -Karla Rogers

Are you thus making fun of Karla? She really said, "Imma try not ta mstake da speakur n da poem wit da writer of da poem."

(Please excuse Will, as he is blind.)

[Hieronymous Corey]

Oooookay. So, what do you think about Burt Bacharach?

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 3:10:57 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 6:03:15 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
>

> > Thus, "Try not to mistake the speaker in the poem with the writer of the poem..." -Karla Rogers
>
> Are you

Yes, I need to proofread every post before hitting send, thanks again for catching the typo, Nancy G.

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

The reason I ask is because I heard an old Burt Bacharach song on the car radio yesterday
on the way to the Amish country market, which was closed due to a death in the family.

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 1:12:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> the most I managed to get out of either of you was that the poem is about Helen of Troy, is about mythological figures, and is similar to Shelley's "Adonais" (Shelley's send-off to Keats).

Which, it turns out, is what I find most other writers have to say about the poem. For example:

https://interestingliterature.com/2016/11/09/a-short-analysis-of-edgar-allan-poes-to-helen/

"In this poem, as the title suggests, Poe addresses Helen – by whom he means Helen of Troy, reputed to be the most beautiful woman in the classical world. She was the ‘face that launched a thousand ships’, in Christopher Marlowe’s famous line about her from his play Doctor Faustus..."

"Helen’s beauty, Poe tells us in the first stanza, reminds him of the boats (‘barks’) of classical times, specifically those boats which set sail for victory (‘Nicéan’ has been interpreted by critics as a nod to Nike, the Greek god of victory... The ‘weary, way-worn wanderer’, a delicious piece of alliteration, may refer to Odysseus..."

https://shenandoahliterary.org/blog/2015/02/to-helen-by-edgar-allan-poe/

"First published in 1831, his poem “To Helen” alludes to the infamously beautiful Helen of Troy. The poem explores the idea of a woman’s beauty, both in terms of body and soul..."

And so on.

"Jane Stanard" is mentioned as art of the back story of the poem but she is not named /in/ the poem.

Thus, "Try not to mistake the speaker in the poem with the writer of the poem..." -Karla Rogers

HTH & HAND.

[Hieronymous Corey]

In any event, I really enjoyed listening to that old Burt Bacharach song
playing on the car radio yesterday, more than I ever remember enjoying
listening to any Burt Bacharach song before yesterday. I was never a big
Burt Bacharach fan. I don't know why. I really enjoyed listening yesterday.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 4:12:35 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
> The reason I ask is because I heard an old Burt Bacharach song on the car radio yesterday
> on the way to the Amish country market, which was closed due to a death in the family.
>

He's never been a favorite of mine, as there's a "plinkety," one-fingered piano sound to the majority of his songs, which generally lack emotion. "Alfie" is probably his best work.

[Michael Pendragon]

[Shakes head.]

Do you understand the difference between analyzing the content of a poem and identifying its subject (specified in the title)?

Even after my in-depth explanation/example, you remain utterly clueless.

[Will Dockery]

Sure, since you agree the subject of the poem will always be Helen of Troy.

😉

[Hieronymous Corey]

Exactly. He's never been a favorite of mine either, and I agree
about the "plinkety" sound, but something about hearing him
on the car radio yesterday made the experience very pleasant.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 4:40:03 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Sure, since you agree the subject of the poem will always be Helen of Troy.

As previously explained, Helen of Troy is alluded to in the subject, but she is not the actual subject of the poem.

But think (for want of a more accurate word) what you want -- I've done all I can to enlighten you.

[Michael Pendragon]

Don't get me wrong, I think his music is pleasant enough under any circumstances. I'm not going to actively hunt down copies of his songs, but if a singer I like records one I'll add it to my collection. For the most part, it's got a lite, bouncy beat and a "happy" feeling to it.

[Hieronymous Corey]

I didn't know I knew the words to the song.
My wife looked at me funny when I started
singing along to This Guy's In Love With You.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

True....

The poem depicts Helen of Troy......

The only reason Poe's back story is discussed is because Poe is a famous poet....

If Edgar Allan Poe were not famous then the poem would simply be his writing to and of the legendary Helen.........

[Hieronymous Corey]

The reason Poe's back story is relevant is because Poe wrote the poem,
and his back story makes the poem make sense in context of its author.
Otherwise it would be just another poem about some old historical figure.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

Which is really what it is to the casual reader.

[Hieronymous Corey]

Okay. If you're what you call 'the casual reader',
and you think it's just an old poem about an old
historical figure, then that's all it is to you. Fine.
If you think there's more to it than that, there is.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

If a person picked up a book of poems..............

Handed it to me............

Said read this poem named ***To Helen***

And that is all....

I would simply think that the poem was about.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbEO_1mb8n8

"Paris is swept overboard on the shore of Sparta where he is found by Helen, Queen of Sparta......"

Which is a pretty good read in and of itself.........

[Hieronymous Corey]

Like I said.

[ME]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 6:00:52 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
> Like I said.

You know pissbum will evade the obvious, Corey.
It’s just what he does.......

[Hieronymous Corey]

Just call me Hieronymous.

[ME]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 6:09:24 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
> Just call me Hieronymous.

If you insist.

[Hieronymous Corey]

I don't, really, but it makes a lot more sense
than calling me Corey, if you think about it.

[ME]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 6:13:26 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
> I don't, really, but it makes a lot more sense
> than calling me Corey, if you think about it.

Hi it is.

[Hieronymous Corey]

Good deal, thanks.

[Will Dockery]

So, you want to be called Hi, again, like in the old days?

[Hieronymous Corey]

Just call me Hieronymous.

[Will Dockery]

Last year you wanted to be called Pastor Corey... why the change?

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 10:23:19 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Last year you wanted to be called Pastor Corey... why the change?

I prefer to callyou Corey or Pastor Corey, is that OK....? ??

[Hieronymous Corey]

Why do you care what I'm called?

[Will Dockery]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 4:26:55 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Why do you care what I'm called?

We all want to call you by the name you prefer, Pastor Hieronymous.

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

Okay, then just call me Hieronymous.

[Will Dockery]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 4:43:48 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Okay, then just call me Hieronymous.

Then Hieronymous it is.

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

Okay then. I've got to brush my teeth,
and get to work. Have a great day.

[Will Dockery]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 5:51:53 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Okay then. I've got to brush my teeth,
> and get to work. Have a great day.

Have a good one, Hieronymous.

:)

[Hieronymous Corey]

Done deal. Will do.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 5:09:24 PM UTC-5, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Just call me Hieronymous.

Can I just call you Hi....? ??

[George J. Dance]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 4:43:48 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
> Okay, then just call me Hieronymous.

Maybe I should try to get this completed:

Penny's favourite blogger-poet
is Hieronymous -
It isn't Abdominous or Acronymous
or Acrotomous or Acuminous
or Adenogenous or Adipogenous
or Adulteress or Adulterous
or Adventurous or Aerugious
or Albuminous or Allonymous
or Aluminous or Ambiguous
or Amnigenous or Amphibious
or Amphibolous or Amphidromous
or Amphigamous or Amphistemous
or Anachronous or Androgenous
or Androgynous or Androtomous
or Angiostamous or Anodynous
or Anomalous or Anonymous
or Antidromous or Antimonous
or Atistrumous or Antonymous
or Antynomous or Arrhythmous
orArthrogenous or Ascogenous
or Asynchronous or Athalamous
or Atrocious or Audacious
or Auriferous or Autogamous
or Autogenous or Automatous

[...]

[Will Dockery]

Another Penny epic begins...

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

Good one G.D.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 4:43:48 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Okay, then just call me Hieronymous.

Too long to type that out over and over.........

What happened to you wanting to be Pastor Corey...?? ?

[Hieronymous Corey]

Okay, so call me whatever you like, or nothing at all.
It really doesn't matter to me what you call me. I am
still Pastor Corey to those who know me that way,
because that's what they call me, and that's what I
answer to, because Pastor Corey is a name that
represents the person I am to other people I know.
Hieronymous is simply a persona and pseudonym.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

Pastor Corey meets your approval then....? ??

[Hieronymous Corey]

What do you mean?

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 6:03:53 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> What do you mean?

I responded to what you wrote..........

[Hieronymous Corey]

Yes, I see that, but I didn't understand what you meant, so I asked.

[Rex Hunter Jr.]

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 6:10:17 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> Yes, I see that, but I didn't understand what you meant, so I asked.

It means is it all right with you if I continue to call you Pastor Corey....? ??

[Hieronymous Corey]

I thought I already explained that. What don't you understand?

[Will Dockery]

Looks like he just wants to know what you want to be called this week, Corey.

[Rex Hester Jr.]

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 10:54:39 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Looks like he just wants to know what you want to be called this week, Corey.

Since Pastor Corey seems to change his mind every other week.....

Mood swings...? ??