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Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
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qwerty...@gmail.com
May 23, 2013, 1:25:52 AM5/23/13
to
Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
as they are left like cars used in a heist,
abandoned in their dysfunction. The earth
is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
to be brown - it’s gray, or sometimes the faded
dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold grew
when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
of dusty gravel and tire marks.
They run a sprinkler for the heat
at the far end, just before the break in the trees
where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
or break beer bottles in a fire pit, but the Nelson’s sewer
stopped working 2 years ago so
the earth there never really dries;
the stink of urine vapors up
from a soft warm clay.
It is the time of year men take their shirts off
and show their stretched tattoos, barely
discernible on their ruddy, tired flesh.
They come to me, not on days like today
when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
or throwing another empty at the twisted,
hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
with two good cushions and a chair
and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
litter a bar table to the side.
Some trade their pilfered brother’s weed
for tribal signs or barbed wire or a sword
and a cross.
There is a woman, I call her Marie,
that stops sometimes. She offers to suck me off.
I shrug. If I let her, she will clean
or bring food. I can make out the face of the dead
son I drew along her left breast,
small but sagging a forever grimace of pain.
Sometimes people pay, I don’t know what to charge
or what I do with money,
I never leave.
Leo brought his sister with him last week.
She’s not even twelve but her breasts press tight
against her tank top and she blushes the color of mangos
as he tells me it’s time she got some ink.
She takes off her shirt and lies face down on the couch.
She wants an avenging angel on her shoulder blade
but as I dip my head and breathe her hair,
the smell of fresh-peeled oranges,
and start to sketch into her flesh,
the only times my hands don't shake,
I trace the outline of
a butterfly.
The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
as they are left like cars used in a heist,
abandoned in their dysfunction. The earth
is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
to be brown - it’s gray, or sometimes the faded
dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold grew
when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
of dusty gravel and tire marks.
They run a sprinkler for the heat
at the far end, just before the break in the trees
where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
or break beer bottles in a fire pit, but the Nelson’s sewer
stopped working 2 years ago so
the earth there never really dries;
the stink of urine vapors up
from a soft warm clay.
It is the time of year men take their shirts off
and show their stretched tattoos, barely
discernible on their ruddy, tired flesh.
They come to me, not on days like today
when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
or throwing another empty at the twisted,
hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
with two good cushions and a chair
and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
litter a bar table to the side.
Some trade their pilfered brother’s weed
for tribal signs or barbed wire or a sword
and a cross.
There is a woman, I call her Marie,
that stops sometimes. She offers to suck me off.
I shrug. If I let her, she will clean
or bring food. I can make out the face of the dead
son I drew along her left breast,
small but sagging a forever grimace of pain.
Sometimes people pay, I don’t know what to charge
or what I do with money,
I never leave.
Leo brought his sister with him last week.
She’s not even twelve but her breasts press tight
against her tank top and she blushes the color of mangos
as he tells me it’s time she got some ink.
She takes off her shirt and lies face down on the couch.
She wants an avenging angel on her shoulder blade
but as I dip my head and breathe her hair,
the smell of fresh-peeled oranges,
and start to sketch into her flesh,
the only times my hands don't shake,
I trace the outline of
a butterfly.
Gwyneth
May 23, 2013, 5:49:03 AM5/23/13
to
On 23/05/13 07:25, qwerty...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi H.,
I struggled with this, but was glad that I made it through to the end.
Comments below ('imo', as always).
> Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
>
>
> The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
> as they are left like cars used in a heist,
"so much" seems to be in the wrong place in the phrase.
I think either of these phrases would sound more natural:
"The trailers are not so much stacked in rows as [they are] left like
a heist"
Your phrasing sets up a strong IP at the start and builds expectation in
the - or at least in /this/ - reader. Then you abandon the meter (as
far as I can see for no good reason) and I feel cheated.
> abandoned in their dysfunction. The earth
Do you need "their"?
Throughout, there are articles and pronouns I think could be dropped.
> is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
> to be brown - it�s gray, or sometimes the faded
tightening.
Repetitions like "dust" and "dusty", "tire ruts" and "tire marks" make
me think this is a very early draft.
I can imagine writing something very similar, so I've tweaked to see
what I might have done with your picture and similar words. I think it'd
be something like this (line breaks depending on context):
The earth is hard-packed in the heat. Not rich enough to be brown, it�s
breaks in ridged gravel.
> They run a sprinkler for the heat
> at the far end, just before the break in the trees
> where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
> or break beer bottles in a fire pit, but the Nelson�s sewer
You might be doing it intentionally, but I'm not getting that
impression: it's too random - there isn't enough apparent control.
Is Nelson a surname? (should it be the Nelsons'?)
Cut the final article and the last two lines read very well.
- makes me think you're trying for metrical effect, but the fact that I
noticed suggests that it's not smooth enough to have worked.
> and show their stretched tattoos, barely
> discernible on their ruddy, tired flesh.
Another "their" that seems unnecessary.
> They come to me, not on days like today
> when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
> in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
> or throwing another empty at the twisted,
> hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
I'm not at all sure about the grammatical logic of this long sentence.
I think you need a comma after "today", as all the next three and a half
lines is semi-parenthetical.
I read it as "drawing [...] cigarette butts".
I've now realised it's a composite "dirt-and-cigarette-butts"; I think
the lack of clarity is partly due to the meter and partly to the fact
that I read it as separate phrases of approximately equal length:
I am sitting outside drinking beer // and drawing fiddleheads in the
dirt // and cigarette butts with my boot tip
I suppose changing line breaks or moving "with my boot tip" to after
"fiddleheads" would clarify it. (Alternatively you could assume most
readers aren't like me!)
"twisted, /hanging skirting" seems too much. I have a tendency to
overwrite, so I'm never sure that I recognise it in other people's
writing, but I suspect you could trim and tighten the descriptors quite
a lot all through.
belongings are "forgotten" I wouldn't expect the narrator to be aware of
them.) I think this stanza works least well for me because of this.
>
> Some trade their pilfered brother�s weed
you are going to write some time in the future: the ideas are here, but
the language and form is all over the place.
do wish you made it clear if the pieces you are posting are for c&c
because you've reached a point where you're stuck, or they're first
drafts, or what.
This reads like a draft where you've worked a bit on the beginning then
just put the rest of the ideas down on paper without much further
thought. I'm not sure that's the best time to get c&c - and certainly
not the line-by-line reading that I am likely to do. (That's why the
comments sort of tail off - I began to think I was wasting my time.)
I'd like to see a later draft of this.
Thanks for posting.
g.
Hi H.,
I struggled with this, but was glad that I made it through to the end.
Comments below ('imo', as always).
> Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
>
>
> The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
> as they are left like cars used in a heist,
I think either of these phrases would sound more natural:
"The trailers are not so much stacked in rows as [they are] left like
cars used in a heist"
"The trailers are not stacked in rows so much as left like cars used in
a heist"
Your phrasing sets up a strong IP at the start and builds expectation in
the - or at least in /this/ - reader. Then you abandon the meter (as
far as I can see for no good reason) and I feel cheated.
> abandoned in their dysfunction. The earth
Throughout, there are articles and pronouns I think could be dropped.
> is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
> dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold grew
> when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
> rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
> of dusty gravel and tire marks.
>
I like this description and it's got some good sounds, but it needs
> when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
> rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
> of dusty gravel and tire marks.
>
tightening.
Repetitions like "dust" and "dusty", "tire ruts" and "tire marks" make
me think this is a very early draft.
I can imagine writing something very similar, so I've tweaked to see
what I might have done with your picture and similar words. I think it'd
be something like this (line breaks depending on context):
The earth is hard-packed in the heat. Not rich enough to be brown, it�s
gray, or sometimes the faded dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold
grew when the last rain pooled in tire ruts. Weeds straggle through
breaks in ridged gravel.
> They run a sprinkler for the heat
> at the far end, just before the break in the trees
> where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
> stopped working 2 years ago so
> the earth there never really dries;
> the stink of urine vapors up
> from a soft warm clay.
You've got "heat" again, two occurrences of "break" and another of "earth".
> the earth there never really dries;
> the stink of urine vapors up
> from a soft warm clay.
You might be doing it intentionally, but I'm not getting that
impression: it's too random - there isn't enough apparent control.
Is Nelson a surname? (should it be the Nelsons'?)
Cut the final article and the last two lines read very well.
>
> It is the time of year men take their shirts off
Irregular use of contractions - "it's gray" v. "It is the time of year"
> It is the time of year men take their shirts off
- makes me think you're trying for metrical effect, but the fact that I
noticed suggests that it's not smooth enough to have worked.
> and show their stretched tattoos, barely
> discernible on their ruddy, tired flesh.
> They come to me, not on days like today
> when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
> in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
> or throwing another empty at the twisted,
> hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
I think you need a comma after "today", as all the next three and a half
lines is semi-parenthetical.
I read it as "drawing [...] cigarette butts".
I've now realised it's a composite "dirt-and-cigarette-butts"; I think
the lack of clarity is partly due to the meter and partly to the fact
that I read it as separate phrases of approximately equal length:
I am sitting outside drinking beer // and drawing fiddleheads in the
dirt // and cigarette butts with my boot tip
I suppose changing line breaks or moving "with my boot tip" to after
"fiddleheads" would clarify it. (Alternatively you could assume most
readers aren't like me!)
"twisted, /hanging skirting" seems too much. I have a tendency to
overwrite, so I'm never sure that I recognise it in other people's
writing, but I suspect you could trim and tighten the descriptors quite
a lot all through.
>
> I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
> old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
> of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
> of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
> with two good cushions and a chair
> and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
> tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
> and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
> litter a bar table to the side.
It's very odd to have this description in the first person. (e.g. if the
> I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
> old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
> of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
> of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
> with two good cushions and a chair
> and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
> tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
> and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
> litter a bar table to the side.
belongings are "forgotten" I wouldn't expect the narrator to be aware of
them.) I think this stanza works least well for me because of this.
>
> Some trade their pilfered brother�s weed
> for tribal signs or barbed wire or a sword
> and a cross.
> There is a woman, I call her Marie,
> that stops sometimes. She offers to suck me off.
> I shrug. If I let her, she will clean
> or bring food. I can make out the face of the dead
> son I drew along her left breast,
> small but sagging a forever grimace of pain.
> Sometimes people pay, I don�t know what to charge
> and a cross.
> There is a woman, I call her Marie,
> that stops sometimes. She offers to suck me off.
> I shrug. If I let her, she will clean
> or bring food. I can make out the face of the dead
> son I drew along her left breast,
> small but sagging a forever grimace of pain.
> or what I do with money,
> I never leave.
At this stage I really get the impression I'm reading notes for a poem
> I never leave.
you are going to write some time in the future: the ideas are here, but
the language and form is all over the place.
>
> Leo brought his sister with him last week.
> She�s not even twelve but her breasts press tight
> Leo brought his sister with him last week.
> against her tank top and she blushes the color of mangos
> as he tells me it�s time she got some ink.
> She takes off her shirt and lies face down on the couch.
>
> She wants an avenging angel on her shoulder blade
> but as I dip my head and breathe her hair,
> the smell of fresh-peeled oranges,
> and start to sketch into her flesh,
> the only times my hands don't shake,
> I trace the outline of
> a butterfly.
Like I said, I was glad that I had persevered and read to the end. But I
>
> She wants an avenging angel on her shoulder blade
> but as I dip my head and breathe her hair,
> the smell of fresh-peeled oranges,
> and start to sketch into her flesh,
> the only times my hands don't shake,
> I trace the outline of
> a butterfly.
do wish you made it clear if the pieces you are posting are for c&c
because you've reached a point where you're stuck, or they're first
drafts, or what.
This reads like a draft where you've worked a bit on the beginning then
just put the rest of the ideas down on paper without much further
thought. I'm not sure that's the best time to get c&c - and certainly
not the line-by-line reading that I am likely to do. (That's why the
comments sort of tail off - I began to think I was wasting my time.)
I'd like to see a later draft of this.
Thanks for posting.
g.
qwerty...@gmail.com
May 23, 2013, 6:24:47 AM5/23/13
to
On Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, Gwyneth wrote:
> On 23/05/13 07:25, qwerty...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi H.,
>
>
>
> I struggled with this, but was glad that I made it through to the end.
>
> Comments below ('imo', as always).
>
>
>
> > Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
>
> > as they are left like cars used in a heist,
>
>
>
> "so much" seems to be in the wrong place in the phrase.
>
> I think either of these phrases would sound more natural:
>
> "The trailers are not so much stacked in rows as [they are] left like
>
> cars used in a heist"
>
> "The trailers are not stacked in rows so much as left like cars used in
>
> a heist"
>
>
>
> Your phrasing sets up a strong IP at the start and builds expectation in
>
> the - or at least in /this/ - reader. Then you abandon the meter (as
>
> far as I can see for no good reason) and I feel cheated.
THere are a few lines later that are also ip. It wasn't meant to be overly nticeable, there is some it as well, just certain areas where I meant to elevate the speech. I didn't intend for it to be metric per se, but that is no reason to have no metric thought.
> On 23/05/13 07:25, qwerty...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi H.,
>
>
>
> I struggled with this, but was glad that I made it through to the end.
>
> Comments below ('imo', as always).
>
>
>
> > Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
>
> > as they are left like cars used in a heist,
>
>
>
> "so much" seems to be in the wrong place in the phrase.
>
> I think either of these phrases would sound more natural:
>
> "The trailers are not so much stacked in rows as [they are] left like
>
> cars used in a heist"
>
> "The trailers are not stacked in rows so much as left like cars used in
>
> a heist"
>
>
>
> Your phrasing sets up a strong IP at the start and builds expectation in
>
> the - or at least in /this/ - reader. Then you abandon the meter (as
>
> far as I can see for no good reason) and I feel cheated.
>
>
>
> > abandoned in their dysfunction. The earth
>
>
>
> Do you need "their"?
>
> Throughout, there are articles and pronouns I think could be dropped.
>
>
true, much was trimmed already and more needs to go.
>
>
> > abandoned in their dysfunction. The earth
>
>
>
> Do you need "their"?
>
> Throughout, there are articles and pronouns I think could be dropped.
>
>
>
> > is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
>
> > to be brown - it�s gray, or sometimes the faded
>
> > dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold grew
>
> > when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
>
> > rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
>
> > of dusty gravel and tire marks.
>
> >
>
>
>
> I like this description and it's got some good sounds, but it needs
>
> tightening.
>
> Repetitions like "dust" and "dusty", "tire ruts" and "tire marks" make
>
> me think this is a very early draft.
>
>
>
> I can imagine writing something very similar, so I've tweaked to see
>
> what I might have done with your picture and similar words. I think it'd
>
> be something like this (line breaks depending on context):
>
>
>
> The earth is hard-packed in the heat. Not rich enough to be brown, it�s
>
> gray, or sometimes the faded dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold
>
> grew when the last rain pooled in tire ruts. Weeds straggle through
>
> breaks in ridged gravel.
>
>
>
> > They run a sprinkler for the heat
>
> > at the far end, just before the break in the trees
>
> > where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
>
> > or break beer bottles in a fire pit, but the Nelson�s sewer
>
> > stopped working 2 years ago so
>
> > the earth there never really dries;
>
> > the stink of urine vapors up
>
> > from a soft warm clay.
>
>
>
> You've got "heat" again, two occurrences of "break" and another of "earth".
>
> You might be doing it intentionally, but I'm not getting that
>
> impression: it's too random - there isn't enough apparent control.
>
>
>
> Is Nelson a surname? (should it be the Nelsons'?)
>
>
>
> Cut the final article and the last two lines read very well.
>
> >
>
> > It is the time of year men take their shirts off
>
>
>
> Irregular use of contractions - "it's gray" v. "It is the time of year"
>
> - makes me think you're trying for metrical effect, but the fact that I
>
> noticed suggests that it's not smooth enough to have worked.
interesting call out.
>
>
> Cut the final article and the last two lines read very well.
>
> >
>
> > It is the time of year men take their shirts off
>
>
>
> Irregular use of contractions - "it's gray" v. "It is the time of year"
>
> - makes me think you're trying for metrical effect, but the fact that I
>
> noticed suggests that it's not smooth enough to have worked.
>
>
>
> > and show their stretched tattoos, barely
>
> > discernible on their ruddy, tired flesh.
>
>
>
> Another "their" that seems unnecessary.
>
>
>
> > They come to me, not on days like today
>
> > when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
>
> > in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
>
> > or throwing another empty at the twisted,
>
> > hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
>
>
>
> I'm not at all sure about the grammatical logic of this long sentence.
>
>
>
> I think you need a comma after "today", as all the next three and a half
>
> lines is semi-parenthetical.
>
>
>
> I read it as "drawing [...] cigarette butts".
>
> I've now realised it's a composite "dirt-and-cigarette-butts"; I think
>
> the lack of clarity is partly due to the meter and partly to the fact
>
> that I read it as separate phrases of approximately equal length:
>
> I am sitting outside drinking beer // and drawing fiddleheads in the
>
> dirt // and cigarette butts with my boot tip
>
> I suppose changing line breaks or moving "with my boot tip" to after
>
> "fiddleheads" would clarify it. (Alternatively you could assume most
>
> readers aren't like me!)
>
>
>
> "twisted, /hanging skirting" seems too much. I have a tendency to
>
> overwrite, so I'm never sure that I recognise it in other people's
>
> writing, but I suspect you could trim and tighten the descriptors quite
>
> a lot all through.
>
> >
>
> > I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
>
> > old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
>
> > of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
>
> > of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
>
> > with two good cushions and a chair
>
> > and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
>
> > tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
>
> > and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
>
> > litter a bar table to the side.
>
>
>
> It's very odd to have this description in the first person. (e.g. if the
>
> belongings are "forgotten" I wouldn't expect the narrator to be aware of
>
> them.) I think this stanza works least well for me because of this.
I post what I write because I am not a professional and have little else to do with it as I don't even personally know a single person that reads poetry. I improve and rewrite when I get well-informed commentary from the likes of you.
Comments of any kind are always appreciated as they let me know there are people out there.
indeed there are.
Thanks again. I hope you have written something as well.
Message has been deleted
qwerty...@gmail.com
May 23, 2013, 7:01:44 AM5/23/13
to
On Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:41:13 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous House wrote:
> I'm here for you too, little buddy. Hang in there.
Sometimes you are, Corey. Other times you forget. Then again, don't we all?
> I'm here for you too, little buddy. Hang in there.
Sometimes you are, Corey. Other times you forget. Then again, don't we all?
qwerty...@gmail.com
May 23, 2013, 7:07:49 AM5/23/13
to
Memorial Day in Cranston Ct.
as they are left like cars used in a heist,
abandoned in dysfunction. The earth
is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
to be brown - it’s gray, or sometimes the faded
dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold grew
when water collected in ruts from the last
rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
of dusty gravel and tire marks.
of dusty gravel and tire marks.
They run a sprinkler for the heat
at the far end, just before the break the trees
where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
or break beer bottles in a fire pit, but the Nelsons' sewer
stopped working 2 years ago
so the earth never really dries;
the stink of urine vapors up
from soft warm clay.
It is the time of year men take their shirts off
discernible on ruddy, tired flesh.
They come to me, not on days like today -
when I am sitting outside drinking beer
and drawing fiddleheads in the dirt and cigarette butts
with my boot tip, or throwing another empty
and drawing fiddleheads in the dirt and cigarette butts
at the twisted, hanging skirting of my trailer,
but they do come.
but they do come.
I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
with two good cushions and a chair
and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
litter a bar table to the side.
Some trade their pilfered brother’s weed
old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
with two good cushions and a chair
and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
litter a bar table to the side.
for tribal signs or barbed wire or a sword
and a cross.
There is a woman, I call her Marie,
that stops sometimes. She offers to suck me off.
I shrug. If I let her, she will clean or bring food.
I can make out the face of the dead
son I drew along her left breast,
small but sagging in a forever grimace of pain.
and a cross.
There is a woman, I call her Marie,
that stops sometimes. She offers to suck me off.
I shrug. If I let her, she will clean or bring food.
I can make out the face of the dead
son I drew along her left breast,
Sometimes people pay, I don’t know what to charge
or what I do with money,
I never leave.
I never leave.
Leo brought his sister with him last week.
She’s not even twelve but her breasts press tight
against her tank top and she blushes the color of mangos
as he tells me it’s time she got some ink.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Gwyneth
May 23, 2013, 12:43:10 PM5/23/13
to
On 23/05/13 12:24, qwerty...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, Gwyneth wrote:
>> On 23/05/13 07:25, qwerty...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
I see you've already posted an updated version, but I'd got halfway with
> On Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, Gwyneth wrote:
>> On 23/05/13 07:25, qwerty...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
this reply, so I may as well get to the end and post it.
(I've only glanced through the newer version, but there were things that
seemed to read a lot smoother.)
I have snipped erratically and tried to compensate for the pig's ear of
double spacing that I think originates in G-Groups. If I've fouled up
the attributions, I apologise to anyone reading.
<...>
>> > The trailers are not stacked so much in rows
>> > as they are left like cars used in a heist,
>>
>>
>> Your phrasing sets up a strong IP at the start and builds expectation in
>> the - or at least in /this/ - reader. Then you abandon the meter (as
>> far as I can see for no good reason) and I feel cheated.
>
> THere are a few lines later that are also ip. It wasn't meant to be overly nticeable, there is some it as well, just certain areas where I meant to elevate the speech. I didn't intend for it to be metric per se, but that is no reason to have no metric thought.
Starting with two full-on IP lines where it sounds like the phrasing has
>> Your phrasing sets up a strong IP at the start and builds expectation in
>> the - or at least in /this/ - reader. Then you abandon the meter (as
>> far as I can see for no good reason) and I feel cheated.
>
> THere are a few lines later that are also ip. It wasn't meant to be overly nticeable, there is some it as well, just certain areas where I meant to elevate the speech. I didn't intend for it to be metric per se, but that is no reason to have no metric thought.
been twisted to suit the meter isn't a good opening gambit if you are
only planning on having intermittently regular meter later on.
You're writing in English: it's natural that there will be some clearly
iambic phrases - though I don't think it will necessarily 'elevate the
speech' - but the non-contracted verb forms and weird (to me) word order
really draw attention to this opening. And then it goes somewhere else
completely, for no apparent reason.
<...>
>>
>> > is hard-packed in the heat, not rich enough
>> > dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold grew
>> > when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
>> > rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
>> > of dusty gravel and tire marks.
>>
>>
>> I like this description and it's got some good sounds, but it needs
>> tightening.
>>
>> Repetitions like "dust" and "dusty", "tire ruts" and "tire marks" make
>> me think this is a very early draft.
>
> this is a first draft. everything I write starts as first drafts. Sometimes I post edit, sometimes I re-post later. Not necessarily to this sight as there isn't a lot of good crit left here which is why it is so good to see you!!
Contrary to rumour, I am usually here. I just don't usually find
>> > when the water collected in tire ruts from the last
>> > rain. Patches of weeds struggle through the breaks
>> > of dusty gravel and tire marks.
>>
>>
>> I like this description and it's got some good sounds, but it needs
>> tightening.
>>
>> Repetitions like "dust" and "dusty", "tire ruts" and "tire marks" make
>> me think this is a very early draft.
>
> this is a first draft. everything I write starts as first drafts. Sometimes I post edit, sometimes I re-post later. Not necessarily to this sight as there isn't a lot of good crit left here which is why it is so good to see you!!
anything that piques my interest enough to comment. The fact that this
has stirred me into commentary may suggest that you're doing something
right.
In the past, I have tended to post things here when I think they've
reached the state that they're "OK" - I can't see where I should be
improving them. Sometimes they get shredded, which is interesting and
informative.
Occasionally, I post much earlier drafts, in which case I tend to label
them as such. I think it helps focus the critter.
>>
>>
>> I can imagine writing something very similar, so I've tweaked to see
>> what I might have done with your picture and similar words. I think it'd
>> be something like this (line breaks depending on context):
>>
>> gray, or sometimes the faded dun of dust or a sickly olive where mold
>> grew when the last rain pooled in tire ruts. Weeds straggle through
>> breaks in ridged gravel.
>
> I am going to toy a little if there is enough promise, memorial day is still a couple days off, but there may at least one irredeemable flaw so i will see.
Memorial Day means nothing to me (I certainly didn't know it was this
>> grew when the last rain pooled in tire ruts. Weeds straggle through
>> breaks in ridged gravel.
>
> I am going to toy a little if there is enough promise, memorial day is still a couple days off, but there may at least one irredeemable flaw so i will see.
weekend), but I've got lots of hard earth and weeds in my recent poems,
so maybe that's what appealed here.
>>
>>
>> > They run a sprinkler for the heat
>> > at the far end, just before the break in the trees
>> > where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
>> > or break beer bottles in a fire pit, but the Nelson�s sewer
>>
>> > They run a sprinkler for the heat
>> > at the far end, just before the break in the trees
>> > where teenagers sneak off to smoke pot
>> > stopped working 2 years ago so
>> > the earth there never really dries;
>> > the stink of urine vapors up
>> > from a soft warm clay.
>>
>>
>>
>> You've got "heat" again, two occurrences of "break" and another of "earth".
>> You might be doing it intentionally, but I'm not getting that
>> impression: it's too random - there isn't enough apparent control.
>>
>>
>>
<...>
>> > the earth there never really dries;
>> > the stink of urine vapors up
>> > from a soft warm clay.
>>
>>
>>
>> You've got "heat" again, two occurrences of "break" and another of "earth".
>> You might be doing it intentionally, but I'm not getting that
>> impression: it's too random - there isn't enough apparent control.
>>
>>
>>
> Repeated words should come across as more subtle and as accents so i am surprised to see them causing such a bother in you.
>>
As I said, I didn't feel there was enough control for it to be
>>
intentional, so it came across as lazy.
>>
>>
<...>
>>
>> > It is the time of year men take their shirts off
>>
>> Irregular use of contractions - "it's gray" v. "It is the time of year"
>> - makes me think you're trying for metrical effect, but the fact that I
>> noticed suggests that it's not smooth enough to have worked.
>
> interesting call out.
>
Note, too, that I felt the same about the contractions in the first two
>> > It is the time of year men take their shirts off
>>
>> Irregular use of contractions - "it's gray" v. "It is the time of year"
>> - makes me think you're trying for metrical effect, but the fact that I
>> noticed suggests that it's not smooth enough to have worked.
>
> interesting call out.
>
lines. (which probably helped draw attention to the IP.)
<...>
>>
>> > They come to me, not on days like today
>> > when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
>> > in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
>> > or throwing another empty at the twisted,
>> > hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
>>
>>
>> I'm not at all sure about the grammatical logic of this long sentence.
>
> you may not be familiar with "skirting", it is like an aluminum skirt that hides the mounts of trailers in trailer parks.
>
It's not the meaning I know of skirting - that would be the low wooden
>> > They come to me, not on days like today
>> > when I am sitting outside drinking beer and drawing fiddleheads
>> > in the dirt and cigarette butts with my boot tip
>> > or throwing another empty at the twisted,
>> > hanging skirting of my trailer, but they do come.
>>
>>
>> I'm not at all sure about the grammatical logic of this long sentence.
>
> you may not be familiar with "skirting", it is like an aluminum skirt that hides the mounts of trailers in trailer parks.
>
panel at the foot of interior walls - but I wasn't at all confused by
your use: it was deducible even by someone who is unfamiliar with
trailer parks.
<...>
>>
>> "twisted, /hanging skirting" seems too much. I have a tendency to
>> overwrite, so I'm never sure that I recognise it in other people's
>> writing, but I suspect you could trim and tighten the descriptors quite
>> a lot all through.
>
> check the definition of skirting, it may be throwing you
No, it's not that. It's probably the fact that 'skirting' has an -ing
>> "twisted, /hanging skirting" seems too much. I have a tendency to
>> overwrite, so I'm never sure that I recognise it in other people's
>> writing, but I suspect you could trim and tighten the descriptors quite
>> a lot all through.
>
> check the definition of skirting, it may be throwing you
ending and adding two adjectives to it makes it very heavy, particularly
as one of them is also an -ing form. Maybe the meter draws attention to
itself, too.
"bent metal skirting" , "battered skirting" , "twisted skirting" would
all give me the same information and none of them would be problematic.
>
>>
>>
>> > I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
>> > old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
>> > of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
>> > of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
>> > with two good cushions and a chair
>> > and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
>> > tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
>> > and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
>> > litter a bar table to the side.
>>
>>
>> It's very odd to have this description in the first person. (e.g. if the
>> belongings are "forgotten" I wouldn't expect the narrator to be aware of
>> them.) I think this stanza works least well for me because of this.
>
> yes, I had a different description here, changed it and left this here as a place holder.
>
There's a lot of stuff here that might work; just not with the narrator
>>
>>
>> > I lead them inside to where lop-sided furniture,
>> > old Styrofoam food containers and mounds
>> > of forgotten belongings crowd us into the center
>> > of the room. There is a mustard yellow sofa
>> > with two good cushions and a chair
>> > and one good lamp. A homemade tattoo gun,
>> > tubs of scattered ink, cotton balls
>> > and a half bottle of rubbing alcohol
>> > litter a bar table to the side.
>>
>>
>> It's very odd to have this description in the first person. (e.g. if the
>> belongings are "forgotten" I wouldn't expect the narrator to be aware of
>> them.) I think this stanza works least well for me because of this.
>
> yes, I had a different description here, changed it and left this here as a place holder.
>
doing the describing.
<...>
>>
>>
>> I'd like to see a later draft of this.
>>
>> Thanks for posting.
>>
>>
>>
>> g.
>
> It is always a pleasure to see you. The voicing in this is a lot different than what I usually write but in spots, I think it is the "Americanism" of the writing that strikes as weird and, in other spots it is still very raw.
>
The Americanism of it didn't bother me.
>>
>> I'd like to see a later draft of this.
>>
>> Thanks for posting.
>>
>>
>>
>> g.
>
> It is always a pleasure to see you. The voicing in this is a lot different than what I usually write but in spots, I think it is the "Americanism" of the writing that strikes as weird and, in other spots it is still very raw.
>
The title gave me some idea what to expect and the first couple of words
was enough to clarify if I'd had doubts.
I think you have conjoured an atmosphere that stands a chance of being
believable, but I do think it needs work.
> I post what I write because I am not a professional and have little else to do with it as I don't even personally know a single person that reads poetry. I improve and rewrite when I get well-informed commentary from the likes of you.
>
> Comments of any kind are always appreciated as they let me know there are people out there.
help to know if the writer thinks they have got as far as they can with
the piece or is just sharing an early draft.
Since there are (apparently) so few people here, it's easier just to
post without any explanation, but there was a time when I thought it
made sense to explain what I thought I needed help with on each piece;
of course it was up to the critter whether they addressed my doubts or
took an entirely different tack as that was what they thought needed
addressing. (I'm sure there's something in the FAQ about this.)
>
> indeed there are.
There are more people out there than we know about.
>
> Thanks again. I hope you have written something as well.
>
>
Nothing to be posted here at the moment, I'm afraid.
> Thanks again. I hope you have written something as well.
>
>
However, in keeping with the heat of your piece, I can offer you this
very old fragment:
Lizard
trickles across concrete:
memory of water
g.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
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qwerty...@gmail.com
May 23, 2013, 4:49:42 PM5/23/13
to
On Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:34:42 PM UTC-4, seafoam1 wrote:
> It's rough, and it needs work.
>
> but, you have too much talent to be posting to this troll shithole.
>
> perhaps find a password-protected, search engine shielded, web based forum
>
> somewhere.
I participate aggressively in a moderated newsgroup where I am considered somewhat of an expert, especially on forms. It is tedious in ways.
I write too much and really have nothing to do with it at the moment. I still love G and, hey, you never know, someone else of value may return as well!
> It's rough, and it needs work.
>
> but, you have too much talent to be posting to this troll shithole.
>
> perhaps find a password-protected, search engine shielded, web based forum
>
> somewhere.
I participate aggressively in a moderated newsgroup where I am considered somewhat of an expert, especially on forms. It is tedious in ways.
I write too much and really have nothing to do with it at the moment. I still love G and, hey, you never know, someone else of value may return as well!
Chuck Lysaght
May 23, 2013, 5:28:47 PM5/23/13
to
Ross. You're a fuckhead.
Message has been deleted
Gwyneth
May 26, 2013, 7:20:41 AM5/26/13
to
On 23/05/13 21:27, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 23 May 2013 18:43:10 +0200,
> revised from a draft posted to Erato", "unchanged from the version
> previously seen by some people in private email" and so on.
I'm not sure if this made more sense when there was more overlap between
aapc and other forums.
I vaguely remember once thanking a couple of people by name for their
comments via email when I posted a revised draft; I then felt really bad
as the revision was shredded (justifiably so) and I felt I'd not taken
full responsibility.
>
> Once a draft is posted, it's rude to post a revision while critiquers
> may still be poring over their print-outs of the first posted version
> in order to decide what to say about it. I suggest waiting at least a
> week, perhaps a month, between drafts. Nobody who posts a critique is
> holding his breath while eagerly awaiting your latest revisions!
Whether it's "rude" or not, I do feel that it's as well to wait a while
rather than leap to 'obey' the first critter's suggestions. We all have
preferences and personal styles that inform our c&c. The more comments,
the greater chance of being able to extract the details from each that
will help create the piece the original author wants to write, not the
one the first critter would have written.
Also, as a potential critter, seeing a poster so eager to re-write and
so willing to take advice from the first person who comes along, makes
me suspect that the original post was probably only an early draft and
make me less likely to spend my own time on it.
>
> If, however, you notice a mistake, such as a misplaced apostrophe,
> posting a correction is probably a good idea. The
> Supersedes: <message-id>
> header line can usefully be added to the post in such cases.
>
>
> Something like the above could usefully appear in a supplementary FAQ,
> perhaps.
>
Perhaps.
However, since we all use different applications to read the group and
some of us can't be bothered to learn more than the basics necessary to
post and reply, this last bit is probably hoping for too much.
g.
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 23 May 2013 18:43:10 +0200,
> Gwyneth wrote:
>
>> In the past, I have tended to post things here when I think they've
>> reached the state that they're "OK" - I can't see where I should be
>> improving them. Sometimes they get shredded, which is interesting and
>> informative.
>>
>> Occasionally, I post much earlier drafts, in which case I tend to label
>> them as such. I think it helps focus the critter.
>
> It's also helpful to add such notes as "also posted to RAP", "slightly
>
>> In the past, I have tended to post things here when I think they've
>> reached the state that they're "OK" - I can't see where I should be
>> improving them. Sometimes they get shredded, which is interesting and
>> informative.
>>
>> Occasionally, I post much earlier drafts, in which case I tend to label
>> them as such. I think it helps focus the critter.
>
> revised from a draft posted to Erato", "unchanged from the version
> previously seen by some people in private email" and so on.
I'm not sure if this made more sense when there was more overlap between
aapc and other forums.
I vaguely remember once thanking a couple of people by name for their
comments via email when I posted a revised draft; I then felt really bad
as the revision was shredded (justifiably so) and I felt I'd not taken
full responsibility.
>
> Once a draft is posted, it's rude to post a revision while critiquers
> may still be poring over their print-outs of the first posted version
> in order to decide what to say about it. I suggest waiting at least a
> week, perhaps a month, between drafts. Nobody who posts a critique is
> holding his breath while eagerly awaiting your latest revisions!
Whether it's "rude" or not, I do feel that it's as well to wait a while
rather than leap to 'obey' the first critter's suggestions. We all have
preferences and personal styles that inform our c&c. The more comments,
the greater chance of being able to extract the details from each that
will help create the piece the original author wants to write, not the
one the first critter would have written.
Also, as a potential critter, seeing a poster so eager to re-write and
so willing to take advice from the first person who comes along, makes
me suspect that the original post was probably only an early draft and
make me less likely to spend my own time on it.
>
> If, however, you notice a mistake, such as a misplaced apostrophe,
> posting a correction is probably a good idea. The
> Supersedes: <message-id>
> header line can usefully be added to the post in such cases.
>
>
> Something like the above could usefully appear in a supplementary FAQ,
> perhaps.
>
Perhaps.
However, since we all use different applications to read the group and
some of us can't be bothered to learn more than the basics necessary to
post and reply, this last bit is probably hoping for too much.
g.
Will Dockery
May 27, 2013, 12:37:55 PM5/27/13
to
Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> Yes, Squirty! Why not fuck off to seafoam1's "search engine shielded
> web based forum"?
Sounds a lot like the numerous failed attempts you've made at creating an alt.arts.poetry.comments.moderated newsgroup, PJR.
>
> Yes, Squirty! Why not fuck off to seafoam1's "search engine shielded
> web based forum"?
Sounds a lot like the numerous failed attempts you've made at creating an alt.arts.poetry.comments.moderated newsgroup, PJR.
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