On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 11:51:26 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 9:06:48 AM UTC+6:30, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 8:30:16 PM UTC-5, George J. wrote:
> > > NancyGene wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 3:40:15 PM UTC-4, George J. wrote:
> > > >> On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:25:13 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> > > >> > “The Human Tragedy
> > > >> > a poem."
> > > >> > by Alfred Austin
> > > >> > London: Robert Hardwicke, 192 Piccadilly. 1862.
> > > >> >
> > > >> ssnip for focus
> > > > Are you a snake, George Dance? ssss
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mr. Austin seems to have published this 1862 version of the book/play,
> > > >>
> > > >> NastyGoon is wrong. The above book wwa and is a narrative poem, not a "play" of any kind.
> > > > wwa wwa?
> > > > It is a play.
> George Dance has reading comprehension problems which result from self-serving snipping. If he looks above, we say "Mr. Austin seems to have published this 1862 version of the book/play, then recalled the copies for revision." We didn't say that the 1862 publication was a play at that point. It became one later, but the basics were there anyway. George Dances needs to retain everything that we write, and reproduce it completely and accurately.
>
That, unfortunately, is not our resident Dunce's m.o.
George Dunce appears to have been on the debating team in college, as he invariably uses every Debating 101 trick in the book.
Unless Mr. Dunce is even denser than he appears, he knows perfectly well that you did not say that the 1862 version was a play. In Debating 101, you take your opponent's statement and restate it in your own words, twisting its meaning ever sot slightly that it sounds similar but now contains an error or contradiction that you can point out and "correct."
George Dunce is using this ploy to divert the conversation from his original error, and to create a new, supposed error on your part, that you are now placed in the position of defending.
(The primary rule in Debating 101 is to place your opponent on the defensive.)
> > > NO, NG, it is not. There is no reason to think that the 1862 book was a "play." There aren't even any "Acts" to confuse you. What is your problem? Is your id unable to admit that you were wrong?
> George Dance, please see above, which refutes your argument. Do you know what "this 1862 version of the book/play" means? If not please consult us or Dr. Schwimmer.
George will play dense and continue to insist that "this 1862 version of the book/play" means that the 1862 edition was a play. As long as he can pretend not to understand your sentence, he can maintain the offensive position.
Eventually, you will get tired of explaining a perfectly clear statement, and will give up in frustration. This makes Dunce, what he calls "The Last Man Standing," which means, according to Dunce Logic, he wins by default.
> > The above is a classic example of the "Dunce in denial" syndrome. Dunce realizes he was wrong and that "The Human Tragedy" was intended to be an example of "dramatic verse," and that this is why the author broke it into Acts as if it were a play. He also realizes that NancyGene's use of "play" in describing it, had been correct all along.
> Yes, George Dance has been in denial all of his life. He is wrong, he is always wrong, he will ever be wrong. He resents women who are smarter than he is and strikes out.
George Dunce was brought up in a household where he was looked upon as a "filthy thing" that should be swept out of sight as much as possible. He was also denied the ability to play/interact with the other children in his neighborhood. As such, he developed an egocentric personality wherein he was a superior being (a junior Übermensch) by virtue of what he narcissistically believed to be his superior intellect.
For "Mensa George" to lose an argument (especially to a woman), he would have to abandon his belief in his superior intellectual prowess -- thereby surrendering his "power" to his opponent. This would shatter "Mensa George's" illusion of superiority, leaving him the helpless little boy lying in bed with his pajama pants down as he waited for his father to arrive with the belt. IOW: To best "Mensa George" in an argument is to neuter him.
> > But will Dunce admit that he was wrong? Perish the thought! Rather Dunce will zero in on NancyGene's use of "book/play" above, and use it as a pretext for one of his obsessively petty (and nevertheless incorrect) arguments. To wit: Since the 1862 edition had not yet been divided into "Acts," that edition (and that edition alone) does not qualify as a "play" (or, one assumes, as a "book/play").
> He also didn't read or reproduce our statement correctly.
As noted above, this is a debating trick that George Dunce uses over and over again: a) restate your opponent's position in your own words, b) twist its meaning just enough to allow for a contradiction or fallacy, c) "correct" your opponent, d) thereby placing them on the defensive.
> > Can Mr. Dunce possibly appear any more desperate? Unfortunately, yes.
> Desperation lives in Canada.
Our resident Dunce is also very dense for not realizing that his Debating 101 ploy is painfully obvious and that I will call him on it every time.
> > > >> > then recalled the copies for revision.
> > > >>
> > > >> NastyGoon is wrong again; neither Austin nor Hardwicke "recalled" the book. Austin did revise his poem, and publish a new edition, many years later.
> > >
> > > > Well, George Dance, you are wrong (again). "The Human Tragedy," Austin, Alfred, Published by Robert Hardwicke, 1862. "First Issue of author's second book. Inscribed to noted author and publicist Laurence Oliphant. Released in 1862, Austin immediately recalled the books and had it printed years later in a larger format. In his hand on the title page is this note to Oliphant: 'Withdrawn from circulation, to be altered + enlarged.'"
> > > >
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Human-Tragedy-Austin-Alfred-Robert-Hardwicke/21082778129/bd
> > > Well, now: this is why, despite the lying and bullshitting you've learned from Michael and Jim, I don't give up on you completely. You actually found something new, something that both the DNB and Britannica missed, As well, it can be confirmed by a reliable source. On the latter's authority, I'm happy to admit here you were right about the 1862 non-play being recalled -- and to add that bit of trivia to PPP, with appropriate credit to the reliable source.
> We are not your researcher, George Dance. We are much better at researching, discussing, writing, reading and judging poems than you are and are a reliable source. You should not be so adamant in your arguments against our statements, because we have good reasons for saying them, which will put egg on your face when you are proven wrong. You don't like that.
> > >
As noted above, you repeatedly emasculate him.
As a consequence, Dunce has become obsessed with the vain task of proving you wrong. If Dunce can prove you wrong, he becomes (in his deluded mind) your intellectual superior, thereby symbolically getting his dangly bits reattached.
> > On this point, Dunce admits that he was mistaken (well, let's face it, given the evidence NancyGene provided, he has no means of getting around it), but bookends the admission in a set of smug put-downs. (I find it amusing when Dunce attempts to talk down to NancyGene who is obviously more intelligent, better educated, a superior writer, and an all-round better person than he is... especially when she has just finished correcting him.)
> George Dance seems to have a deep-seated fear and resentment of women. He digs himself into holes by denying everything that he has not found himself. He does not have a monopoly on research.
>
Being bested in an argument by a woman is more emasculating than getting bested by a man. And, remember, this is all about Dunce's symbolic emasculation.
> > > >> > There are 1876 and later versions, but the above text is the first and definitive if one wants to be accurate.
> > > >>
> > > >> NastyGoon is wrong yet again. If a writer revises a work, the latest version (not the earliest) is the most definitive.
> > > > That was the original poem. It is the accurate 1862 version of the poem.
> > > So what? The poet revised it later. The revised version is the definitive version, if one wants to be accurate. In this case it also reads better; if he hadn't printed a revision, he probably wouldn't have used it on the blog.
> As we said, it is the accurate 1862 version of the poem. George Dance had originally labeled it as 1862 on his blaaarrrrggg, which was not correct.
George Dunce has already stated that the book/play has been forgotten (whereby no "definitive" edition has been established in modern literary circles). For George Dunce to determine the "definitive" version based on his own estimation, he would need to read and compare *all* of the existing versions. As I sincerely doubt that Mr. Dunce has read even *one* version, he has no means of determining which is "definitive."
> > Now Dunce is going to nitpick over which version of this play/poem/book is the definitive one. Apparently, he has forgotten his earlier claim that "No version of /The Human Tragedy/ has stood that test[of time]." Arguing over the "definitive" version of a critically dismissed and forgotten work is splitting hairs seven different ways.
> George Dance is attempting to show that he was right all along. Must...Save...Face...
Must... Get... Dangly Bits... Reattached...
> > > >> > George Dance had the 1876 version on his site, but said it was 1862, which is incorrect.
> > > >>
> > > >> The version on the blog is dated 1891 which is the year its source text was published:
> > > >>
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2023/10/in-slant-sunlight-of-young-october.html
> > >
> > > > After you changed the date on the article in your bllaaarrrggg from 1862.
> > > Of course I changed the date. You don't get credit for that, of course, since you didn't want me to change the date, but to use the wrong lines instead.
> Huh? What we said above was: "George Dance states in another thread that he used the 1891 version, but he has 1862 on his blaarrrgg. What he copied isn't the 1862 version."
>
Claiming that you told him to "use the wrong lines" makes it sound like your correction was both ridiculous and faulty.
Like I said, George Dunce will *always* a) restate your position in his own words, b) twisting it just enough to create a contradiction or error, c) point out and/or "correct" said "error," and d) thereby place you on the defensive.
> > From Dancing around split hairs, we're back to the Dunce in denial syndrome. Dunce changed the date (tacitly admitting his mistake) but counters this attempting to blame a second "mistake" on NancyGene. As far as this reader can make out from Mr. Dunce's ravings, NancyGene suggested that he match the appropriate version of the poem to the date, whereas he has matched the appropriate date to the poem.
> Yes, that's correct.
> >
> > What can one do but paraphrase Margo Channing with the pronouncement of "What a Dunce!"
> We would say, "'Sorry you [George Dance] were caught,' I said. 'Sorry that you thought I was weak, but you were wrong.'” --"Circe"
To which George Dunce would say "O dangly bits, where art thou?"
> > > > We don't really care what you call us, but you look like a petulant child when you call us self-serving, clever-to-only-you names
> > > If the three of you didn't care, you wouldn't cry about them so much, silly Goon.
> > Not one of us cares, nor cries, about your childish name-calling, Dunce. And I believe that I speak for all of us when saying that we find it both pitiful and amusing that a 70-something-year old man, who fashions himself a poet, thinks it the ne plus ultra of wit to refer to others with name like "monkey," "piggy," and "chimp."
> And "Nasty Goon." He puts childish names to others because he thinks that elevates him, which it does not. We are not in a tizzy, nor crying, nor even objecting--we observe and see that George Dance diminishes himself.
>
I suspect that he's living out the childhood he'd been denied as a boy. "Boy George" is attempting to be the playground bully -- not based on physical strength, but on his intellectual prowess (a prowess that betrays itself with these adolescent displays of "wit").
> > > > just because we are smarter than you are and catch your mistakes (and try to help you correct them).
> > > Is that why you can't admit your mistakes? Why you get in such a tizzy when you're corrected? Because you're afraid you won't look "smart"?
> > NancyGene is obviously more intelligent than you, Dunce... but, to borrow an analogy from PJR, she's shooting fish in a barrel.
> We do admit mistakes and apologize when we make them. We think that George Dance's statement more describes his reaction to being corrected than it does ours.
Of course. George Dunce could write a book on IKYABWAI variations.
This variation is "I suspect I am, but will allay my suspicions by attributing my faults to you."