HOW USENET GROUPS DEGENERATE

[Michael Pendragon]

One can assume that everyone participating in a poetry discussion group, has an interest in poetry and wishes to discuss poetry with others.

As long as everyone makes that assumption, the group will function as it was intended to.

Unfortunately, discussions can only take place when two or more individuals hold different (even opposing) points of view. Such discussions can get a little heated, and one or more of the participants can end up feeling misused by one or more of the others.

Adults in a group will alert one another of the feelings, apologize, shake hands (virtual var.), and make up.

However, certain individuals with low self-esteem and a childish, petty, and/or paranoid personality will hold a grudge against their "opponents" and lash out at them later.

Another type of poster who contributes to the breakdown of a Usenet group, is the narcissist who craves attention (both positive and negative varieties) and attempts to dominate the group by hijacking threads, bumping his own poetry, and picking fights with others in order to both monopolize their time and to keep the focus of their posts focused squarely on him.

Both of the above-mentioned types believe that they are being unfairly targeted by the rest of the members, and will naturally form an alliance. This alliance is invariably one of co-dependency wherein each will support the other's delusional beliefs.

The narcissist will now double-down the number of his posts, with his newfound alliance cheering him on. He will, in turn, offer a token "well put" to each of his ally's arguments, and attack the character of his ally's opponents.

This sort of behavior (a tandem attack on the group as a whole) will lead the other members to form what appears to be an alliance by default. Since they possess a shared goal to restore the group to its intended purpose, they will work together in an attempt to get the butt-hurt and the narcissist back in line.

Unfortunately, the butt-hurt and the narcissist will only see their comments as attacks, and will redouble their efforts in retaliation.

When left unchecked, each member of the group will develop personal grievances against those on the opposing side -- and which they will, in turn, retaliate against.

At this point, poetry discussions are largely abandoned in favor of posts contributing to what has become an ongoing flame war. It degenerates into an endless series of Tit for Tats wherein each side believes that the opposing side has thrown the first Tat.

The obvious solution is for the members who don't fit into the group (the butt-hurt and the narcissist) to seek out another group where one with their personality traits would be more welcome.

The butt-hurt needs to be in a protected environment -- a heavily monitored group wherein members aren't allowed to challenge one another's opinions, but can only respond with words of encouragement ("Good read," "Interesting," "Well put," etc.).

The narcissist, however, does not belong in a group.

For a group to exist, all of the members must *share* it on equal terms. They must be conscious of one another's needs and considerate of one another's rights. No one member can attempt to dominate every thread.

A narcissist functions best on a FB, X, or Instagram type social media forum. The narcissist's social media page would necessarily be all about them, and their friends and followers would feed their ego by complimenting everything they post.

I'm writing this in the hope that the butt-hurt and/or narcissist in this group will see the error of their ways. IOW: I'm writing on the assumption that somewhere 15-25 years ago, the butt-hurt simply wanted to discuss poetry with others and the narcissist... well, there's really no hope for someone like that. The best one could wish for is that some sort of compromise could be made wherein they stop attempting to dominate the group, and in return, are no longer the subject of attack.

If we all accept the premise that everyone here *wants* to have a poetry discussion group, and that there are not actual trolls (just people behaving trollishly out of a neverending circle of Tit for Tats), we might be able to put aside our personal differences and make an attempt to get along.

We managed to do so (briefly) with The Sunday Sampler, so it isn't as unrealistic a scheme as it sounds.

[Ash Wurthing]

So well said that unfortunately it will blind the dim minded to the truth of it...
If the miracle of peace does occur, I would have to set aside my axes that I grimly grind and return back to my gaunt beginnings and to weaving a tapestry of shadows...

[Jordy C]

Oh Mr Ash, come on now… you are simply too SMART, and SHARP and SAVVY to get so emotionally invested in a Usenet group! As much as we may wish otherwise, Usenet groups are simply not SUPPOSED to flow smoothly, like skipping through the daisies! There has SLWAYS been conflict and there always WILL be conflict! Deep down, you must KNOW that and THAT is where our famous “security council” analogy always comes in handy! For heaven’s sake, if you have to be so emotionally invested , isn’t it wiser to be invested in REAL LiFE issues, not conflicts with strangers on the internet??? Just goes to show once again that people react *emotionally*, not logically all too often…

[Michael Pendragon]

Yes, let's all forget about silly things like poetry, and SHOUT about how much we HATE President Trump instead.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[roach]

You said I was "among friends." Nu?

[Jordy C]

Yes, but said that on the Dylan group,which, needless to say, was A more friendly, welcoming, hospitable group, all in all…

[Ash Wurthing]

Oh so well said! L07

LAST STAND AT THE AAPC CORRAL (dakhma remix)
/a poesy epic disaster of a epic poetry fiasco by ashes/
Here at alt arts poetry commentary
it seems it's an affliction of spew dysentery
a cankerous riot of social commentary
a squatter's asylum of misfits marauding derogatory
And what was it all for- you tell me
For I couldn't tell you, really
I'm no Usenet vet nor poetry wiki scholar,
but I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar
that it doesn't require science of rocketry
to see this isn't poetry but unbridled hedonist riotry.
Bumping braying mules jacking their asses
Boasts of Beat poetry beaten like dead horses
Tortured comix art doomed to be ridiculed
If it was poetry you sought, then make haste
Away! This may not be the place.

And those hedonists say it's just love we need-
So to chit chat, irrelevant tangents they stampede
for others to turn the cheek to their selfish creed-
Screw that! I just need a piece of poetry to read!

So there have been hedonists calling me a hater and a racist. These people are simply slinging labels like ignorant children, for that's all they know. If they call someone such without understanding who or what they're labeling, so to merely dismiss accusations against them, then they prove themselves even less credible, especially when being seen ignoring similar foul deeds done by their own.

They must imagine their selves like a Trump or Fundie minister. They crybully and think we're plain silly like their gimp followers, not to see what they also do. Their narcissistic leader cries victim about bigots, and he would know, he does bigotry just as well and oh so well for a tat come back. He has fallen into the hypocrite pit fall but his ego cares not, for it's a self absorbed and very demanding master of his personal Hell.

But just when Losenet Hedonists thought it was safe-- oh woe upon them all! For the prefab poet comes with great wrath of ponderous words, to lay waste to their "real poesy" troll facades. To flush this shitsty with grievous genuflections and ominous objurgation of dreadfully rhymed words...

[ME]

Oh jordi’s uncle. … you ignorant little cunt.
You really are will’s little pussy, aren’t you?

[Ash Wurthing]

Since I heard you bemoaning what seemed to be a sad fate of the Dylan group, I assume it met an untimely fate like AAP and RAP. Are you a harbinger of that doom coming soon to AAPC?

[Family Guy]

So this is your way of justifying your stupid bullshit "hello" postings?

> There has SLWAYS been conflict and there always WILL be conflict!

There is a difference between trolling and conflict.

>Deep down, you must KNOW that and THAT is where our famous “security council” analogy always comes in handy! For heaven’s sake, if you have to be so emotionally invested , isn’t it wiser to be invested in REAL LiFE issues, not conflicts with strangers on the internet??? Just goes to show once again that people react *emotionally*, not logically all too often…

Fuck you.

[Ash Wurthing]

You nailed that dead on!

[Ash Wurthing]

You know this just calls for an encore performance...

As Jordy says, this isn't the UN Security Council, nor the US Congress which I supposedly filibuster like it is according to sWilly-- so this is my free expression and my commentary on this supposed "real poetry" group that so called Usenet vet "real poets" run here with lip service nods and petty hellos...
and they're just mad because I won't bow down to those that cannot understand what they call "gibberish" from great Black statesmen...
To the self absorbed that cares not for people other than his few friends creating poetry though, who his friends selfishly bury in their desperation for all the attention, I normally don't pay much attention to, he WAS not outright trolling and being nasty but NOW are starting to spam though to thumb his spoiled suburban self indulgent nose at those they feel are restricting his Luciferian right to do as he damn well pleases. Civility as he wishes for, requires good will and interest in the feelings of those that he shares space with, not just one's own desires for proper treatment-- the Golden Rule.

THIS IS AS SERIOUS AS THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL-- THIS IS CREATIVITY FOR MNEMOSYNE'S SAKE! WHAT PEOPLE CREATE IS THEIR LEGACY!

(but then I speak to people without creative endeavors or any legacy other than they whiled away their days with meaningless, mindless chit chat)

I will love to be here to see Jordy when this place becomes like RAP-- already the daily new unique poetry is gone from here-- and all that remains is sWill and Zod bumping the same old "poetry" threads and Ilya spamming three essays a day-- poor Jordy!!

[Michael Pendragon]

[roach]

Do you mean because of this foul and abusive, contentious forger?

[Jordy C]

Well, not speaking about one specific cause in particular, just all of the arguing and fighting and vitriol and Ben and animosity and pettiness and maliciousness etc… our “side” blames their side and their “side” blames our side and we just seem to go round and round in circles, the same vicious cycle…

[roach]

Hi Jordy, thanks for responding. What did you mean (to type?) when you wrote "Ben?"

[Jordy C]

I meant to type “venom”… when I post on my phone, it can be challenging…

[Michael Pendragon]

There's no reason for you to be at odds with anyone, Isaac. All you need to do would be to follow the Guidelines.

Stop making the pointless, off topic "Hello" posts, and make an original comment regarding any links you post.

Easy-peasy.

[roach]

It's okay! Don't be embarrassed about being challenged, Jordy. I Understand, and know that everyone here supports you. I'm sorry you find yourself so disturbed by the forger. Just know what we all love and support you.

[Jordy C]

That’s nice of you to say, thank you, Rachel!

[Michael Pendragon]

You're picking up Donkeyspeak, Rachel.

The correct word would be "impostor."

Forgery: the action of forging or producing a copy of a document, signature, banknote, or work of art.

Impostor: a person who pretends to be someone else in order to deceive others.

[roach]

I didn't think Jordy would know what I was talking about. ;-)

[roach]

You know I'm just kidding, right Jordy? I'm probably just still seething and licking my wounds over your sadistically saccharine letters, which came under the cover of soothing me as though I were being abused by something malicious, the millionth one from you, when nothing was wrong, and I finally blew a gasket, after swallowing it every time, as advised by my mother as the wiser choice to do sometimes. Looks like this time was not one of those times, and I would have been better off speaking up from the get go, and thus avoid this built--up injury from quite a number of misguided seemly well-intentioned letters from you all in the same vein. Sorry to the group, I didn't mean to sound aggressive towards one of our gentle members out of the blue apparently for no reason, just for kicks.

Hey, the Cashisiti episode is on. (SVU)

[Michael Pendragon]

No apology is necessary, Rachel.

Isaac is a passive-aggressive troll, who spams the group with idiotic "hello" posts 24/7.

I'd like to bash his face in with a 2x4.

[Family Guy]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:14:03 AM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:

Hmmm here's an idea, how about CUTTING OUT YOUR BULLSHIT HELLO POSTS?
On second thought just stop your posting entirely.

[Family Guy]

Wait, Rachel is "roach?"
I thought that was the Sulzbach back in sockpuppet form.
Well, it's fitting, at least, since both a roach and Rachel are ignored by society and both tend to keep to themselves in the dark.

[Family Guy]

My friend! My friend!
...be sure to wear your safety goggles when you do.

[Family Guy]

Take your meds Crazy Lady and walk away from the computer.

[Family Guy]

Fuck you. Die in a fire.

[Michael Pendragon]

Sulzbach is currently back in his FarStar sockpuppet form (currently updated to FarawayStar).

[Jordy C]

It truly makes me sad that you feel that way, Rachel! Have always thought of you as a friend!

[roach]

dont be sad or hyperbolize, it's unseemly. it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, my friend!

[Ash Wurthing]

He won't listen because you mentioned an anathema to them-- rules. When he won't listen to common sense that he admits to-- that he would listen his Communist Party if they told him he was doing obvious disruptive things, he won't listen to anything.

Funny though, he tells us to not to get uptight about things here 'cause it's Usenet, yet he and his crew don't listen to their own spew.
As their talkin' babble head, and Crom says, suck it up buttercups, it's the Usenet as you sayz!
Sorry, Ashtroll, but if [someone] want to post to a usenet group, he's going to have to be able to handle honest criticism. If he doesn't like any of it, he's as free to post as you, Will, or I.
George Dance May 5, 2023, 2:32:32 AM
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/_oDYF2FjMkE/m/zCqsQJ9-AAAJ

[Ash Wurthing]

What's your problem with Ben? What did they do to be drug into this? Who the Hell is Ben anyway?

[Ash Wurthing]

I beg to differ, he does nothing here for me and mine to support and he does not care about me or mine when it comes to his posting and supporting his friends spamming out the rest of us.

[roach]

wakarimasen

[roach]

it's beyond my ken (mum's word from my childhood)

[Ash Wurthing]

"My imagination's not a crazy one, no
I grew up in the slums where they kill anything that grows
I'm saying I can't make these things up so
We only live reality, if you daydream then you go"
--'Anatomy 1:2' ~~KING 810

My kin thinks Jordy is selfish and immature
Just like a self absorbed teenager texting on his phone
and offers them nothing when it comes to what they would have been coming here for...
you fools' loss, since you all seem so desperate for mere attention and just satisfying the need for interaction since it seems that you must have no friends in real life to say hello and chit chat to...
so sad that that's all there is to be had for those duped by the dopamine, endlessly chasing the same old craving, savoring their serotonin

[roach]

i like jordy and i also just started an anti-depressant and i'm quite content, thank you

[Jordy C]

Thanks Tachel, and am glad to readily admit that I was condescending and patronizing toward you… I had the image in my head of you being terribly sensitive and hurt and that I had to protect your feelings… I admit that I was wrong about that! Sadistic? Absolutely not! Refuse to concede that, because I KNOW my internet ruins were good and upright and honorable… but patronizing in thinking of you as so easily hurt rather than a strong, assertive woman? Absolutely eas guilty of that…

[Ash Wurthing]

Oh, I'm sure he's a great guy to you, his friends, but he has said he doesn't care for anyone else which would include my kin, so why should I care about him? He does address me with some respect-- so I give him a break since he doesn't join in his friends attacks on me, but ultimately, it doesn't matter when he doesn't give a shit for my kin.
Nothing personal, it's all for creativity.
My kin have my allegiance, they deserve it, they offer me creative opportunities unlike here where you Usenet remnants just offer hollow hellos and empty chit chat and care only about your selfish interests and not creative endeavours, especially that of others...

[Jordy C]

Isn’t it the truth that we really don’t *know* each other? It’s always risky to make judgments about strangers on the internet… when you think about it, it’s really a shame that so much I’ll Will is built up towards strangers… it seems quite petty and unfair, the worst, lowest part of human nature, yet I suppose people on all “sides” get stuck in that method of thinking and feeing… personally don’t believe that I’m being at all “selfish”, but I suppose that is all in the eye of the beholder… just wish that you would cut all of us more slack and try to understand our point of view, because I just can’t help believing that you are an interesting, fascinating, intriguing, intelligent, articulate character, even if we vehemently disagree about how we view the goings on and shenanigans that perpetually occur on this group…

[Ash Wurthing]

Please forgive me Jordy-- this isn't just typo laming, or to to be vicious, but the message of the typo made me laugh out loud, which isn't easy to do to someone stoic as me (all the exclamation marks in my posts are added on afterward by editing- I rarely get excited in the way of exclamation marks)

but:

"because I KNOW my internet ruins were good and upright and honorable…"

now that was my kinda of ironic misspeak! :P

[Ash Wurthing]

We just know each other by our actions and yours didn't reflect well with outsiders, possible new members and readers, I'm afraid to say. I tried to warn all sides, including yours, of this. RIP Usenet...

[roach]

no, you are correct. i am meek and mild, and i can't stand up to no stranger on the internet, to no business man, to no authority, i'm a weak wimpy woman in love, and the man is magnetically drawn to the woman.

[roach]

they are forging other people's names and addresses....apparently flawlessly...just not their personalities...i think....

[Michael Pendragon]

To forge a name, they would have to be writing a facsimile of their signature on a document. And, one cannot use an email address that is already taken -- so at most, they can only use a similar address.

Again, they are impostors (or impersonators), not forgers.

To put it in the simplest terms possible: Forgery is a crime; impersonation is not.

[Family Guy]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:55:09 PM UTC-4, roach wrote:

> no, you are correct. i am meek and mild,

and crazy. Don't forget about the batshit crazy.

[NancyGene]

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 7:44:18 PM UTC, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> One can assume that everyone participating in a poetry discussion group, has an interest in poetry and wishes to discuss poetry with others.
>
> As long as everyone makes that assumption, the group will function as it was intended to.
>
> Unfortunately, discussions can only take place when two or more individuals hold different (even opposing) points of view. Such discussions can get a little heated, and one or more of the participants can end up feeling misused by one or more of the others.
>
> Adults in a group will alert one another of the feelings, apologize, shake hands (virtual var.), and make up.
>
> However, certain individuals with low self-esteem and a childish, petty, and/or paranoid personality will hold a grudge against their "opponents" and lash out at them later.
>
> Another type of poster who contributes to the breakdown of a Usenet group, is the narcissist who craves attention (both positive and negative varieties) and attempts to dominate the group by hijacking threads, bumping his own poetry, and picking fights with others in order to both monopolize their time and to keep the focus of their posts focused squarely on him.
>
> Both of the above-mentioned types believe that they are being unfairly targeted by the rest of the members, and will naturally form an alliance. This alliance is invariably one of co-dependency wherein each will support the other's delusional beliefs.
>
> The narcissist will now double-down the number of his posts, with his newfound alliance cheering him on. He will, in turn, offer a token "well put" to each of his ally's arguments, and attack the character of his ally's opponents.
>
> This sort of behavior (a tandem attack on the group as a whole) will lead the other members to form what appears to be an alliance by default. Since they possess a shared goal to restore the group to its intended purpose, they will work together in an attempt to get the butt-hurt and the narcissist back in line.
>
> Unfortunately, the butt-hurt and the narcissist will only see their comments as attacks, and will redouble their efforts in retaliation.
>
> When left unchecked, each member of the group will develop personal grievances against those on the opposing side -- and which they will, in turn, retaliate against.
>
> At this point, poetry discussions are largely abandoned in favor of posts contributing to what has become an ongoing flame war. It degenerates into an endless series of Tit for Tats wherein each side believes that the opposing side has thrown the first Tat.
>
> The obvious solution is for the members who don't fit into the group (the butt-hurt and the narcissist) to seek out another group where one with their personality traits would be more welcome.
>
> The butt-hurt needs to be in a protected environment -- a heavily monitored group wherein members aren't allowed to challenge one another's opinions, but can only respond with words of encouragement ("Good read," "Interesting," "Well put," etc.).
>
> The narcissist, however, does not belong in a group.
>
> For a group to exist, all of the members must *share* it on equal terms. They must be conscious of one another's needs and considerate of one another's rights. No one member can attempt to dominate every thread.
>
> A narcissist functions best on a FB, X, or Instagram type social media forum. The narcissist's social media page would necessarily be all about them, and their friends and followers would feed their ego by complimenting everything they post.
>
> I'm writing this in the hope that the butt-hurt and/or narcissist in this group will see the error of their ways. IOW: I'm writing on the assumption that somewhere 15-25 years ago, the butt-hurt simply wanted to discuss poetry with others and the narcissist... well, there's really no hope for someone like that. The best one could wish for is that some sort of compromise could be made wherein they stop attempting to dominate the group, and in return, are no longer the subject of attack.
>
> If we all accept the premise that everyone here *wants* to have a poetry discussion group, and that there are not actual trolls (just people behaving trollishly out of a neverending circle of Tit for Tats), we might be able to put aside our personal differences and make an attempt to get along.
>
> We managed to do so (briefly) with The Sunday Sampler, so it isn't as unrealistic a scheme as it sounds.

AAPC could act as a case history.

[Ash Wurthing]

Well... I guess it would be time for me to accomplish the last thing on the checklist for war chief-- to touch the enemy without (word) murdering him...

from the story of Joseph Medicine Crow, last war chief of the Crow:
(1) touching an enemy without killing him (counting coup), (2) taking an enemy's weapon, (3) leading a successful war party, (4) stealing an enemy's horse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Medicine_Crow
He was also a writer: 'Counting Coup: Becoming a Crow Chief on the Reservation and Beyond', National Council for the Social Studies' "Notable Tradebook for Young People."
He had a Good Conduct medal, Ash did that

[ME]

Well said, Ash. ) with The Sunday Sampler, so it isn't as unrealistic a scheme as it sounds.

[Michael Pendragon]

[Michael Pendragon]

[Michael Pendragon]

[Michael Pendragon]

[Ash Wurthing]

An essay on the commercialization of the internet, written in 1995 by MIT student Christopher R. Vincent, put the situation like this:

As accessing the Internet continues to grow easier for the novice user, it is inevitable that many of these social guidelines will fall to the wayside. This is not to say that new users should be denied access to Internet resources. It has been the first reflex in many newsgroups to flame any user who posted from an online service provider. Some of the larger providers, such as America Online have not received a very warm welcome to the network (note the formation of the alt.aol-sucks newsgroup.) This reaction does not necessarily stem from elitism, but from a genuine fear that as more and more users appear, Usenet will fall apart. Indeed, this is a valid concern. The current system is not designed for the commercial-oriented direction the Internet is now taking.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 10:09:11 PM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> An essay on the commercialization of the internet, written in 1995 by MIT student Christopher R. Vincent, put the situation like this:
>
> As accessing the Internet continues to grow easier for the novice user, it is inevitable that many of these social guidelines will fall to the wayside. This is not to say that new users should be denied access to Internet resources. It has been the first reflex in many newsgroups to flame any user who posted from an online service provider. Some of the larger providers, such as America Online have not received a very warm welcome to the network (note the formation of the alt.aol-sucks newsgroup.) This reaction does not necessarily stem from elitism, but from a genuine fear that as more and more users appear, Usenet will fall apart. Indeed, this is a valid concern. The current system is not designed for the commercial-oriented direction the Internet is now taking.
>

That's an interesting look into to the prevailing mindset of Usenet members long before I'd even heard of Usenet (or Google Groups, for that matter). I've read that Usenet (actually the Internet itself) originally functioned as a means of communication between scholars at various universities and such. The introduction of online service providers opened it up to the general public, whose knowledgeability was rarely up to par, and whose lack of interaction in a scholarly, or professional, environment led to numerous flame wars. At least that's the picture I've gotten from this, and other, sources over the years.

AAPC no longer has any bona fide scholars, or experts, or even successful/renowned poets... assuming that it ever did. AFAICS, we're essentially a group of amateur poets who are attempting to engage in poetic discussions vs a trio of terminally unemployed trolls who spam-post their nonsense 24/7, and the amateur poet who enables them. IOW: Usenet has sunk from scholars vs the general public, to the general public vs uneducated, mentally defective pissbums.

The bright side to all of this (if one can consider it as such), is that the Usenet cannot possibly sink any lower. Once the general public has been driven away by the pissbums, there is no lower social caste to challenge them. In the end, there can be only bums. And Usenet will exist for no other purpose than to exchange greetings with "Jordy."

[Michael Pendragon]

[Coco DeSockmonkey]

[Michael Pendragon]

[Coco DeSockmonkey]

[Michael Pendragon]

[NancyGene]

Or it will disappear completely, like Yahoo Groups. Those who "archive" their work at AAPC, thinking it is forever, will be devastated.

[Michael Pendragon]

Ironically, it will probably disappear because those most intent on "archiving" their work have driven everyone else away.

There is precious little market for Usenet groups now. When it drops down to three or four members using to exchange greetings, you can bet TPTB will pull the plug.

[Michael Pendragon]

[Michael Pendragon]

[Michael Pendragon]

[Ash Wurthing]

Ironic isn't it? I believe have some verse about it...

[Ash Wurthing]

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 10:17:25 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:

Yep, there's been much grumbling about Google's handling of the Usenet archives that they bought from the original owner. And Google has a history of discontinued its own services that had more activities, so there's no guarantee they will continue archiving Usenet, or maintaining it, when there's not much general public interest in it, especially after the Usenet generation passes on to Oblivion.
And I'm not sure how far back on Usenet archives other servers actually archive, how much they depend upon accessing Google's archives, or if they will even continue to exist once their operators pass away.
"All of the God's children they all have to die
Pauper to King, sworn enemies to kin
From men without sin to those with the beast within
The grave is absolute, the grave is all
O, Death where are your teeth
That gnaw on the bones of fabled men
O, Death where are your claws
That haul me to the grave"
--"No Grave Deep Enough" ~~Primordial

[Michael Pendragon]

[NancyGene]

Another sign of a group's degeneration is the showing up of the posts that sell illegal substances. We have seen that appear on AAPC several times in the past few days. A dead group consists of nothing but those kinds of messages.

[Michael Pendragon]

I've noticed those as well. There were a dozen of them one night. Perhaps the General is trying to earn some money?

[Ash Wurthing]

Yep, QUITE a strange coincidence looking at the unbridled free-for-all hedonist individuals that dominate the group and the subject of the spam and it's products aimed at them.

[Michael Pendragon]

[NancyGene]

Any group that is dominated/overwhelmed by the messages from one person is a dead group.

[Ash Wurthing]

And ASSays...
RAP gets three a day and none of 'em ever get any views. No wonder Jordy doesn't want to be over on RAP.

[NancyGene]

Dockery, Dance, Sulzbach and Shambat don't even talk to each other over there. Maybe they do need Jordy's Uncle to say hello to them?

[Ash Wurthing]

ROFLMAO!

[Michael Pendragon]

[Ash Wurthing]

It's like with the Great Spamming that drowned so many Usenet group-- all the individual "commercial" spam just made the emergence of modern social media, Internet forums and Readdit that much more appealing to those being buried. Spam was controlled by the social media providers and individual spam that was out of control on Usenet could be blocked unlike here. As a try to tell the whippin' fools, when a group get overwhelmed by spam, "commercial" or personal, people will feel that their voice will not be heard and will go to places where they're not being buried by selfishness.
Selfishness, is the problem as my people say about the whippin' fools (and want nothing to do with them and their desperation).
Readdit is the new Usenet. And they have moderation to stop the usual problems of Usenet-- spamming and necroposting.

[NancyGene]

We find Reddit confusing and not user-friendly.

We want to mention that David Dalton mentioned that he cross-posts and doesn't read the groups. That is spamming. Why does he think that his messages should be on multiple groups that he doesn't even read?

[George J. Dance]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 6:39:16 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:32:11 PM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:34:12 PM UTC-4, roach wrote:
> >
> > My kin thinks Jordy is selfish and immature
> > Just like a self absorbed teenager texting on his phone
> > and offers them nothing when it comes to what they would have been coming here for...
> > you fools' loss, since you all seem so desperate for mere attention and just satisfying the need for interaction since it seems that you must have no friends in real life to say hello and chit chat to...
> > so sad that that's all there is to be had for those duped by the dopamine, endlessly chasing the same old craving, savoring their serotonin

> Isn’t it the truth that we really don’t *know* each other?

Yes, it is. Joni Mitchell put it well:

"No one knows
They can never get that close
Guesses at most
Guesses based on what each set
Of time and change is touching"
- "Sweet Bird"

It’s always risky to make judgments about strangers on the internet… when you think about it, it’s really a shame that so much I’ll Will is built up towards strangers… it seems quite petty and unfair, the worst, lowest part of human nature, yet I suppose people on all “sides” get stuck in that method of thinking and feeing… personally don’t believe that I’m being at all “selfish”, but I suppose that is all in the eye of the beholder… just wish that you would cut all of us more slack and try to understand our point of view, because I just can’t help believing that you are an interesting, fascinating, intriguing, intelligent, articulate character, even if we vehemently disagree about how we view the goings on and shenanigans that perpetually occur on this group…

[Ash Wurthing]

Well unfortunately, they will never get to know Jordy, Will or Zod; because their initial impression of them, turned them away!
So sad that...
And their impression of Will and Dance may not be undone now, peace or not.

this what my music has to say about it...
"Men of straw, they burn the fields
As far as the eye can see
A wretched warning is delivered
To the men of words and deeds"
"This dreadful history we have sired
Is the black bleached future you have desired
The embers of your ashen dreams
Are raked and scattered upon a pauper's grave"
--'Come the Flood' ~~Primoridal

[Jordy C]

On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 12:42:34 PM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 6:39:16 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:32:11 PM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 4:34:12 PM UTC-4, roach wrote:
> > >
> > > My kin thinks Jordy is selfish and immature
> > > Just like a self absorbed teenager texting on his phone
> > > and offers them nothing when it comes to what they would have been coming here for...
> > > you fools' loss, since you all seem so desperate for mere attention and just satisfying the need for interaction since it seems that you must have no friends in real life to say hello and chit chat to...
> > > so sad that that's all there is to be had for those duped by the dopamine, endlessly chasing the same old craving, savoring their serotonin
>
> > Isn’t it the truth that we really don’t *know* each other?
>
> Yes, it is. Joni Mitchell put it well:
>
> "No one knows
> They can never get that close
> Guesses at most
> Guesses based on what each set
> Of time and change is touching"
> - "Sweet Bird"
>

Thank you so much for quoting that song!!! One of my favorite Joni Songs, and one of my favorite songs of all time, periods So ease and profound and philosphical!