Mt Father's House / George J. Dance

[George J. Dance]

My Father's House

This is my father's house, although
The man died thirteen years ago.
They said it would be quite all right
To take a drive to see it now.

Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
And built the whole thing (from a box),
Toiling after each full day's work.
I helped, though I was only six.

Look, here's the back door I would use
And here's where I'd remove my shoes
To enter; there I'd leave my things
And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

In this room I'd wash many a dish,
Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
To be so many other places.
(Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

Outside, the garden that he grew
Where I would work the summers through,
While watching my friends run and play
Mysterious games I never knew.

That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
The one chair I was let to sit?
(For boys can be such filthy things.)
Which, the corner where boys were put?

Oh ... down that hall there is a room
Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
After the meal, to make no noise,
To read or play alone, and then

Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
Face and pyjama bottoms down
As for my father's belt I'd wait.

Oh, if I were a millionaire
I'd buy my father's house, and there
I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
Its flames would light up all the air.

~~
George J. Dance
from Logos and other logoi, 2021

[NancyGene]

Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?

[George J. Dance]

On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:

> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?

Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.

[Zod]

That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.

[Michael Pendragon]

Most writers welcome corrections, Stink.

George certainly should in this instance. considering the content of his poem, "Mount Father" becomes a Freudian slip of massive proportion.

[George J. Dance]

What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
"sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
troll, I never posted about it.)

[Will Dockery]

Yes, now watch the shit slinging little monkey Michael Pendragon come rushing to defend and deflect.

🙂

[Ash Wurthing]

Nope, just Ash...
Yes, Ash, Ash, North S.W.A.T. (Smartass Words And Tactics), always ready to swat those twats, twits n asses. If there's an exposed ass just begging for it, he haz the clue by four to enlighten it.
He is also available for toe tag elegies, funerals and last stands gallows humor performances...

Why did we abandon this thread whippin' proud boys? As you said in the past no thread has an expiry date...

[Will Dockery]

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 5:56:15 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 4:18:11 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:10:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
> > > >> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
> > > >
> > > > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>

> > > What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announcing the Yeats

Or as Ash calls him, "Yates".

:)

> > > exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> > > "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> > > them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> > > troll, I never posted about it.)
>
> > Yes, now watch the shit slinging little monkey Michael Pendragon come rushing to defend and deflect.
> Nope, just Ash...
> Yes, Ash

Okay, give him time.

;)

[Ash Wurthing]

No post editor, I said:
Ash Wurthing
5:56 PM (8 minutes ago) 

Nope, just Ash...
Yes, Ash, Ash, North S.W.A.T. (Smartass Words And Tactics), always ready to swat those twats, twits n asses. If there's an exposed ass just begging for it, he haz the clue by four to enlighten it.
He is also available for toe tag elegies, funerals and last stands gallows humor performances...

Why did we abandon this thread whippin' proud boys? As you said in the past no thread has an expiry date...

"Censorship is the tool of those who have the need to hide actualities from themselves and from others. Their fear is only their inability to face what is real..."
--'On Writing' ~~Charles Bukowski

[ME]

dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as child sexual abuse more than punishment.

It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed, with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.

[Michael Pendragon]

Yes, there are definitely some disturbing sexual connotations there.

The poem is a laundry list of abuses: Little George was treated like a slave. Even though he helped to "build" his father's House-in-a-Box, he was barely allowed inside of it, and even then was only allowed to sit on one chair in the corner. He spent his childhood in a state of subservience, washing dishes, and gazing out the window wishing he was allowed to play like other boys.

Now that his father is dead (and no longer a threat to him), he dreams of burning the House-in-a-Box down: a final rebellious act against the dictatorial father who'd abused him.

Since the poem is "largely" base on George's own experiences, at least some of these items must have been taken directly from his life. He has already said that the House-in-the-Box was his father's, and since the poem is titled "My Father's House," it is safe to conclude that all (or nearly all) of the incidents depicted in his father's house pertained to his life.

For me, the image of a young George lying in bed with his pants down, quietly awaiting his father's belt is extremely disturbing, but even if we ignore it, the overall atmosphere of fear, subservience, restriction, and absence of love is enough to send any child into psychotherapy for life.

In George's case, he champions his fellow "victims" -- that is, those he perceives as victims -- and attacks those he perceives as being in a position of authority of power. IOW: He is compensating for not having stood up to his father (and there's only so much that a child can do) by "battling" the authoritative/parental-substitute forces he perceives in the world around him. Society, the government, and people in general, are all conspiring to control him -- to make him fall into line, conform, become a functioning cog in the machine. George is a modern Don Quixote jousting against giants -- only the windmills have been replaced by NancyGene, Jim, Ash, Robert, PJR, ME, Corey, and myself (and 9 out of 10 AAPC members from the past).

I used to think that George was a patriarchal defender of the "white man's burden," protecting those he believes to be his social and intellectual inferiors; but such is not the case. George is protecting those he believes to be his inferiors; but it is not being done out of a sense of moral conscience (that's Karen's bag) -- George sees them as kindred souls. The drunken pissbum living under a piece of discarded tarp (spit out by an unfair and uncaring society) is as helplessly impotent as young George was against his father. George can't go back in time to redress his father's wrongs, but he can stand up for the "downtrodden" in a Usenet newsgroup.

Go George!

There is a feeling of power in self-perceived martyrdom that serves as both a release from, and a punishment for, the unprotested subservience of his past.

Unfortunately, it is precisely for this reason that George is unable to escape his past, and is therefore forced to repeat it again and again, by allying himself with the "victims" of society, and lashing out against the numerous "authority" figures who are "persecuting" him and them. He's trapped in a self-replicating pattern wherein he is forever destined to get his butt whipped on a daily (or nightly) basis.

He rejects, and makes enemies of, those who would have accepted him -- because he perceives them as part of the system his father represents. Society failed Little George -- who was forced to suffer through his boyhood in helpless desperation. Society, otoh, accepted George's father -- turning a blind eye to his abuses so long as he publicly played by their rules.

So now George rejects society -- siding with its outcasts -- protecting them in spite of the negative consequences that will inevitably ensue.

It's a teapot tragedy: a boy destroyed by his father's having fucked him over -- whether mentally, physically, or (as implied) sexually.

Pity.

[Will Dockery]

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > >> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>> > >> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>> > >
>> > > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>> > What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>> > exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>> > "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>> > them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>> > troll, I never posted about it.)

<Troll snipped>

> Yes, there are definitely some disturbing sexual connotations

Play armchair psychiatrist much, Pendragon?

HTH and HAND.

[Michael Pendragon]

Yes, Donkey, I do.

And I do not consider it a boast to say that I'm pretty damn good at it.

Continuing my analysis of George J. Dance.

Dance needs to realize that his father was not the authority figure he imagined. His father was a poor, working class man who struggled to afford a home for himself and his family. He was only able to do so by purchasing a low-cost House-in-a-Box (a prefabricated, do-it-yourself home -- one step up from a trailer).

His father was most likely a blue-collar laborer who often skipped on basics for himself in order to keep his family clothed and fed.

His house represented his one act of success in this life. It was his means of reassuring himself that he was being a "man" -- that he was successfully providing for his wife and family. And, as such, he wanted to keep it as nice as possible.

But houses require upkeep and repair -- and upkeep and repair can cost a small fortune -- so a lower-income homeowner has good reason to be overprotective of his house.

Consequently, when his children race through his house with muddy shoes, put their feet on the furniture, scratch the floors, scribble on the walls, etc., it becomes both frustrating and infuriating for him. There he is slaving his life away in order to provide his children with a nice home to live in, and they treat it like a shack, tearing it down faster than he can afford to repair it.

Far from being an authority figure, George's father was at the bottom (or near-bottom) of the socio-economic chain. His house symbolized his rebellion against authority/society -- it stood as a slap in the face to the economic class system that was designed to keep blue-collar laborers down. He had a house. He was a landowner. He was able to provide for his family.

His desire to keep his house as nice as possible, led to his adopting a set of seemingly strict rules (no shoes indoors, for instance), and corporal punishment for those who transgressed. It was the desperate act of an impoverished man to maintain the quality of the one thing he possessed -- his home.

George needs to grant his father the same leeway he allows to social miscreants at AAPC. He needs to stop seeing his father as a dictator, but as a fellow victim (of a capitalistic society and an economically-based social caste system). He needs to not only forgive his father for having been (or, rather, seemed) harsh, but to take pride in his accomplishment in advancing his family a rung or two up the ladder of success.

And he needs to accept that his younger self had little choice but to impotently subject himself to his father's demands. Defiance or even resistance would only have resulted in more beatings. He did the only thing he could, and does not need to atone for it now by martyring himself to a pair of illiterate pissbums who want to turn a communal forum into their persona message board.

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 1:59:17 PM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 1:02:25 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:

> Not as often as you play poet.

I've been writing poetry almost fifty years, how about you?

https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/

[Michael Pendragon]

No, Donkey, you really haven't.

[Zod]

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 2:56:24 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> I've been writing poetry almost fifty years, how about you?
>
> https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/

Excellent poems, Doc....

[Michael Pendragon]

Well, if an illiterate pissbum says your poems are "excellent," who am I to argue?

[Ash Wurthing]

But who's reading it? No one I know.

[Zod]

Ha ha ... you nailed it G.D....

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 3:14:22 PM UTC-5, rjbur...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 2:56:24 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > I've been writing poetry almost fifty years, how about you?
> >
> > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/
>

> You'd think that you'd have learned to write a decent
> poem

I'm not that fond of your poetry, either, Robert.

:)

[ME]

Reading his account of this, it seems more sexual child abuse than corporal punishment, and even that was a really fucked up explanation.
As I said, he (dance) is a soup sandwich and his writing does give insight into why…

[Ash Wurthing]

You sWill, of the poetry garbage opinion, isn't fond of anyone's poetry except for your own.

No one trusts your word Dockery, not after all the lies and misrepresentations you have been caught in, all the post editing you do, all the stuff that you say is wrong for others to do, but you do it.

You and your crew just come across as petty spiteful, cowardly trolls who cannot directly confront their foes.
sWill and his buddies would make a great case study.
Only if they knew, they really need to get a clue

[General-Zod]

Robert Burrows wrote:

> You'd think that you'd have learned to write a decent
> poem

Ha ha ...

Look who's talking...!

[Ash Wurthing]

Ah, yes! As we all know how it goes, we haz the trolls in a tizzy...
someone give me an evil laugh!

[ME]

On Tuesday, 29 November 2022 at 21:34:50 UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> Ah, yes! As we all know how it goes, we haz the trolls in a tizzy...
> someone give me an evil laugh!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[Ash Wurthing]

Thank you very kindly. Don't you just love it when a plan comes together so easily?

[W.Dockery]

Thanks for the nod, Zod.

:)

[ME]

Most definitely!!!!

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 9:34:50 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>
> Ah, yes! As we all know how it goes, we haz the trolls in a tizzy...
> someone give me an evil laugh!

Another declaration of imaginary victory not.

🙂

[ME]

You are paranoid.

[General-Zod]

So who do you know, anyhow...?

Ha ha.

[Will Dockery]

I know, right?

🙂

[W.Dockery]

Not really.

🙂

[Will Dockery]

Zod wrote:

> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:10:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>> >> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>> >
>> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>>
>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>> troll, I never posted about it.)

> Ha ha ... you nailed it G.D....

Be nice, Zod, we don't want NancyGene to leave for a week again.

🙂

[George J. Dance]

On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:

> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>>>
>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>> troll, I never posted about it.)
>

> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as child sexual abuse more than punishment.
>

It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but that's
deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.

> It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed, with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
> Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.

Why? It's obviously a successful poem: People react strongly to it, and
they remember it.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
> > On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
> >>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
> >>>
> >>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> >> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
> >> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> >> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> >> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> >> troll, I never posted about it.)
> >
> > dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as child sexual abuse more than punishment.
> >
> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but that's
> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.

You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation ignores the sexual element.

The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.

However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that your father buggered you on a regular basis.

> > It just sounds a little sick to ME that a boy has to wait in bed, with his pants down for his father to ‘visit’ him in his bed at night.
> > Maybe this poem should have been unpublished.
> Why? It's obviously a successful poem: People react strongly to it, and
> they remember it.

Poetically, it's doggerel.

And doggerel, which is best suited to light verse, does not serve its serious topic well.

People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a belt is memorable because it's disturbing. Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a similar reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.

[George J. Dance]

It's certainly not what you'd write. Let's leave it at that.

> People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a belt is memorable because it's disturbing.

Great. Have you ever written a poem that "people remember," for an image
or for anything else?

> Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a simi> lar reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.
>


Chuck's shock poem led to a his online trolls pretending his poem was
"autobiographical" - I guess that's an occupational hazard of writing on
a group full of trolls.

[George J. Dance]

On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
>>> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>>>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>>>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>>>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>>>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>>>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>>>> troll, I never posted about it.)
>>>
>>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as child sexual abuse more than punishment.
>>>
>> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
>> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but that's
>> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.
>
> You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation ignores the sexual element.

The "sexual abuse" came from ME's own imagination. If she finds being
beaten with a belt to be sexual, that's fine with me, but it's not
something I see any need to waste time on.

> The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.

No, Michael, I have to admit I'm not into that sort of thing. I found
the image sadistic, not erotic.

> However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that your father buggered you on a regular basis.

Only a certain kind of reader, it seems. Most who've read it have
understood that the stanza is clearly about waiting to be beaten with a
belt. The fact you and Steve the MEatpuppet imagine it's about "buggery"
instead says more about you than about the poem.

[Michael Pendragon]

I have written a partially autobiographical story about a physically abusive father, but I chose to do so in short story form -- which a feel is much better suited to the topic.

> > People remember it because the image of a bare-assed little boy lying in bed while he waits for his father to come in to whip him with a belt is memorable because it's disturbing.
> Great. Have you ever written a poem that "people remember," for an image
> or for anything else?

I've written many poems that others have told me they liked. However, apart from my immediate family members, I cannot say with certainty that any of those people still remember the poems in question.

> > Chuck Lysaght's "Perfect Angel" poem is memorable for a simi> lar reason. In neither case, is this a good thing.
> >
>
>
> Chuck's shock poem led to a his online trolls pretending his poem was
> "autobiographical" - I guess that's an occupational hazard of writing on
> a group full of trolls.

Chuck's "shock poem" wasn't a poem by any stretch of the imagination. It was short prose, reminiscent in terms of both subject and quality, to a piece of short porn fiction from one of the more disreputable magazines.

It did not appear to be satirizing the pornographic tales of this sort, but came across as an imitative piece of the porn fiction that inspired it.

It did not shock this reader, and I doubt that it shocked many others.

It ended with a typical "twist" ending, wherein the babysitter told the unsuspecting parents that their daughter had been a "perfect angel" (with a conspiratorial "wink" thrown to the readers).

I cannot see how the story was anything other than a piece of degenerate porn, written by a degenerate who entertains pedophilic fantasies.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 2:28:25 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-30 1:57 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 12:34:49 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-29 10:00 a.m., ME wrote:
> >>> On Monday, 28 November 2022 at 13:10:53 UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
> >>>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> >>>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
> >>>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> >>>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> >>>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> >>>> troll, I never posted about it.)
> >>>
> >>> dance, what you’ve shared in your poem could be described as child sexual abuse more than punishment.
> >>>
> >> It's a poem about someone traumatized by his memories, Steve; he
> >> probably does think of them as "abuse more than punishment," but that's
> >> deliberately not said; it's a poem, and the rule is show, don't tell.
> >
> > You'll note that ME said "sexual abuse," whereas your explanation ignores the sexual element.
> The "sexual abuse" came from ME's own imagination. If she finds being
> beaten with a belt to be sexual, that's fine with me, but it's not
> something I see any need to waste time on.

I disagree. See below.

> > The image of a boy lying on his stomach with his pajama bottoms pulled down, waiting for his father to "punish" him is evocative of both BDSM and kiddie porn. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual connotations did not present themselves to you at the time of the poem's composition, and must therefore conclude that they were intentional.
> No, Michael, I have to admit I'm not into that sort of thing. I found
> the image sadistic, not erotic.

Good for you. That doesn't stop it from being any less evocative of BDSM and/or pedo porn.

> > However, these connotations are also left intentionally vague (that is, up to the reader's interpretation). While this is a good approach to take with a poem, your admission that it was "largely based on" your personal experiences, can only leave readers wondering (assuming) that your father buggered you on a regular basis.
> Only a certain kind of reader, it seems. Most who've read it have
> understood that the stanza is clearly about waiting to be beaten with a
> belt. The fact you and Steve the MEatpuppet imagine it's about "buggery"
> instead says more about you than about the poem.

I see it as a boy waiting to be beaten with a belt -- and possibly getting buggered in the process.

What does this say about me? That I'm not unaware of the world around me. That I have done extensive online image searches in order to create approximately 300 videos (several of which include BDSM images).

One doesn't have to like a certain sub-genre of pornography in order to be aware of it -- any more than one has to like eating peaches in order to recognize them in the fruit and vegetable aisle at the local grocery store.

[Zod]

They don't call pen a shit spewing little monkey for nothing, after all... ha ha.

[General-Zod]

Yep, the trolls try any dirty trick they think will help them win...

[W-Dockery]

Pendragon tried to use the accusation to flame you with, and it backfired, since it's a malicious lie.

And so it goes.

[Family Guy]

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>
> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> After the meal, to make no noise,
> To read or play alone, and then
>
> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> As for my father's belt I'd wait.


Wow. No wonder you're so screwed up.

[Will Dockery]

"Try not to confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem." -Karla Rogers

🙂

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 10:20:22 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 10:11:19 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >

> > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:14:23 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> On 2022-11-30 12:43 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > >> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 5:02:48 PM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> >> On 2022-11-30 7:29 a.m., NancyGene wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Good one, ME! We don't have to guess which stanza was Mr. Zod's favorite. He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and was in deviant heaven.
> > >> >> Actually, Prof. NG, it was Michael Pendragon who found that stanza in
> > >> >> the archives and had to share it, possibly for the reason you conjectured.
> > >> >>> He could also relate very well to "filthy."
> > >> >
> > >> > George Dance, what are you talking about? We didn't say that ME found that passage-
> > >> No one said you did, NG -- I thought you were accusing Zod, yet again,
> > >> of finding and "necroposting" old poetry from the archives. In this
> > >> case, though, it was Michael Pendragon who found and reposted one of his
> > >> faves.
> >
> > > Don't flatter yourself, Dance.
> >
> > > I find this piece of doggerel to be laughably atrocious.
> >
> > > I only remember it because it's "largely" autobiographical nature sheds a good deal of light on your psychological makeup.
> >
> > >> > she commented that the poem would seem good to a person of Mr. Zod's proclivities
> > >> Zod did mention that he liked the poem. Yet Michael, and ME, have both
> > >> given it far more attention. I guess that says something about their
> > >> "proclivities".
> > >> > Where do you see that we "conjectured" a "reason?"
> > >> 'He picked out the words "boys," "pee," "bottoms down," and "belt" and
> > >> was in deviant heaven.' Pure conjecture.
> >
> > > It's in keeping with what we know of Stink's character (arrested for "indecent exposure," public urination, his "bunk buddy" relationship with Dirty Mike, his latent(?) homosexual adulation of
> > Why do you lie and misrepresent so much, Michael Pendragon?
> It's in the archives

Great, show us.

🙂

[Michael Pendragon]

https://next.photobucket.com/u/michaelmaleficapendragon

[Will Dockery]

Lies and misrepresentations most commonly used.

[George J. Dance]

On 2022-11-29 4:16 p.m., Zod wrote:
> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:10:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:

>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>>>> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>>>
>>> That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>>
>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>> troll, I never posted about it.)
>

> Ha ha ... you nailed it G.D....

That one seems to have stung. Notice that I left NG a nice little type
("announding"), and they still avoided the thread.

[W.Dockery]

Photo Bucket isn't working for me, do you have me blocked?

[Ash Wurthing]

Admission of trolling duly NOTED.

[Will Dockery]

I noticed.

🙂

[ME]

Troll much dance?!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHA.

You fucking dumb ass!
I told them, give them enough rope….

[Will Dockery]

That's pretty funny coming from a stalker troll like you, ME.

🙂

[Michael Pendragon]

Not that I'm aware.

You know the picture -- you're the one who'd originally posted it -- Stink's mug shot for "contempt."

[Will Dockery]

Okay I'm familiar with that photo.

[Family Guy]

Donkey:
He has stated this poem is "autobiographical."
In addition, that's a very hypocritical thing for you to write, since you repeatedly claim your "poems" are the same.
Also, in this case, the speaker and writer are same.
Please learn to read. Third graders can do it. So can you.

[Will Dockery]

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 10:08:43 PM UTC-5, Family Guy wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:54:18 AM UTC-5, Family Guy wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >>
> > > > Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> > > > Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> > > > After the meal, to make no noise,
> > > > To read or play alone, and then
> > > >
> > > > Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> > > > Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> > > > Face and pyjama bottoms down
> > > > As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. No wonder you're so screwed up.
> > "Try not to confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem." -Karla Rogers
> >
> >
> Donkey:
> He has stated this poem is "autobiographical."

No, he didn't.

> In addition, that's a very hypocritical thing for you to write, since you repeatedly claim your "poems" are the same.

It's not about me.

> Also, in this case, the speaker and writer are same.

No, they aren't.

[W.Dockery]

Wow, NancyGene must be busy reading "John Dunne" again.

:)

[W.Dockery]

Look who's talking.

🙂

[ME]

Troll much, brillo head?

[Will Dockery]

No, how about you, ME?

🙂

[W.Dockery]

Zod wrote:

> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:10:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>
>> >>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>> >> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>> >
>> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>>
>> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>> troll, I never posted about it.)

> Ha ha ... you nailed it G.D....

To the wall.

🙂

[Spam-I-Am]

Johnny Cash - Get Low (To The Window, To The Wall)
https://youtu.be/F9TKfMOiBQU

[Will Dockery]

"When in doubt, quote Johnny Cash."

🙂

[Spam-I-Am]

Huh? “To the wall” reminded me of the song,
so I went to YouTube and found the Johnny
Cash version. I listened to it twice before
posting, and it made me smile, so I thought
you’d enjoy the video also. I’m sorry you didn’t.

[ME]

You are so fucking stupid.

[Spam-I-Am]

Speaking of which, are we having fun yet?
If not, I have better things to do right now.

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:26:54 AM UTC-5, ME wrote:

Look who's talking.

🙂

[Spam-I-Am]

Better yet, look who’s NOT talking.

[Will Dockery]

You're right, since Usenet is a text based medium, none of us are really talking, here.

HTH and HAND.

[Spam-I-Am]

That’s certainly one way to look at it, sure.

[Zod]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:53:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:23:48 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 1:55:24 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
>

> > > > > > > > > George Dance wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
> > > > > > > > >> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> > > > > > > > >> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> > > > > > > > >> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> > > > > > > > >> troll, I never posted about it.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ha ha ... you nailed it G.D....
> > > > > > > > To the wall.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Johnny Cash - Get Low (To The Window, To The Wall)
> > > > > > > https://youtu.be/F9TKfMOiBQU
> > > > > > "When in doubt, quote Johnny Cash."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > You are so fucking stupid.
> > > > Look who's talking.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Better yet, look who’s NOT talking.
> > You're right, since Usenet is a text based medium, none of us are really talking, here.
> >
> > HTH and HAND.
> That’s certainly one way to look at it, sure.

Most of us use "he said, she said" here although we know better....

[Spam-I-Am]

Exactly. Talking is just a common term for corresponding. So, “look who’s
NOT talking” can also be understood to mean look who’s NOT responding.

[Zod]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:06:35 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:00:16 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 3:53:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > George Dance wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
> > > > > > > > > > >> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> > > > > > > > > > >> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> > > > > > > > > > >> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> > > > > > > > > > >> troll, I never posted about it.)
>

> > > > > Better yet, look who’s NOT talking.
> > > > You're right, since Usenet is a text based medium, none of us are really talking, here.
> > > >
> > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > That’s certainly one way to look at it, sure.
> > Most of us use "he said, she said" here although we know better....
> Exactly. Talking is just a common term for corresponding. So, “look who’s
> NOT talking” can also be understood to mean look who’s NOT responding.

Who is not responding, probably several people...?

Do you have any specific people in mind...?

[Spam-I-Am]

Of course, I always have specific people in mind.

[Zod]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:16:12 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:10:09 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > George Dance wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> troll, I never posted about it.)
> > >
> > > > > > > Better yet, look who’s NOT talking.
>

> > Do you have any specific people in mind...?
> Of course, I always have specific people in mind.

You can't name them, though....?

[Spam-I-Am]

Of course I could name the specific people I have in my mind,
but they’re not necessarily the same people you’d have in mind
if you were to consider who is NOT responding to comments.

[Zod]

Maybe not....

[Spam-I-Am]

Duh.

[Zod]

That's okay Corey I know how you have great difficulty in answering questions... ha ha.

[Spam-I-Am]

Likewise, I’m sure.

[Will Dockery]

Okay, no argument with that.

HTH and HAND.

[Spam-I-Am]

Well, there you go. Have a pleasant evening.

[Will Dockery]

Likewise, Corey.

🙂

[Spam-I-Am]

Tomeorrow, tomeorrow, I luv ya, tomeorrow, yer always a day away.

[Will Dockery]

Some things never change.

[Ash Wurthing]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:56:38 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:

That was pretty cool.
Here's another rap tribute to Cash, something I shared with Jim because I know he appreciates good lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl1_968j72M
--'Old Train' ~~Adam Calhoun fea. Struggle Jennings
"'Round the way I can hear it
As it's comin' on down the tracks
It's old but it's strong, keeps movin' on
It shakes the leaves and the grass
The train is all black, like the man from the past
The ghost of old Johnny Cash"

[Will Dockery]

Of course he won't.

🙂

[General-Zod]

Spam-I-Am wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:53:23 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Zod wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:10:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> On 2022-11-26 4:01 p.m., Zod wrote:
>> >> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >> >> On 2022-11-26 3:32 p.m., NancyGene wrote:
>> >
>> >> >>> Where is Mount Father? Is that in Canada?
>> >> >> Thanks for the good catch, dear. I can't delete this, but I'll repost.
>> >> >

>> >> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
>> >>
>> >> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announding the Yeats
>> >> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
>> >> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
>> >> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
>> >> troll, I never posted about it.)
>>

>> > Ha ha ... you nailed it G.D....
>> To the wall.
>>
>> 🙂

> Johnny Cash - Get Low (To The Window, To The Wall)
> https://youtu.be/F9TKfMOiBQU

Good song....

[General-Zod]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:30:21 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 4:28:24 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > > > > > George Dance wrote:
>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > That's pretty funny coming from NancyGene, who thinks London, home of John Dunne and Robert F. Stillings, is in Ireland... ha ha.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What was even funnier, for me, was that just after announcing the Yeats

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> exhibit in London, Ireland, Prof. NG suddenly took a month-long
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "sabbatical" from the group. I spent a couple of amusing hours imagining
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> them roaming around Ireland looking for London. (Of course, not being a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> troll, I never posted about it.)
>

> > That's okay Corey I know how you have great difficulty in answering questions... ha ha.
>

> Likewise, I’m sure.

I don't have any problems answering questions....

[Will Dockery]

Agreed, hard to go wrong with Johnny Cash.

[George J. Dance]

On 2022-12-01 10:08 p.m., Family Guy wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:54:18 AM UTC-5, Family Guy wrote:
>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
>>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
>>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
>>>> To read or play alone, and then
>>>>
>>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
>>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
>>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
>>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
>>>
>>> Wow. No wonder you're so screwed up.
>> "Try not to confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem." -Karla Rogers
>>
> Donkey:
> He has stated this poem is "autobiographical."

No, liar, Michael Monkey stated it was "autobiographical."

Do you really think that, if you repeat his lies, he'll let you on the
team? It won't work, any more than it worked to get you onto PJ Ross's
team. It's time to facts: no one wants you.






> In addition, that's a very hypocritical thing for you to write, since you repeatedly claim your "poems" are the same.
> Also, in this case, the speaker and writer are same.
> Please learn to read. Third graders can do it. So can you.

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:33:52 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-12-01 10:08 p.m., Family Guy wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:54:18 AM UTC-5, Family Guy wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>
> >>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>
> >>> Wow. No wonder you're so screwed up.
> >> "Try not to confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem." -Karla Rogers
> >>
> > Donkey:
> > He has stated this poem is "autobiographical."
>
> No, liar, Michael Monkey stated it was "autobiographical."

And even Pendragon has backtracked on that.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 10:33:52 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:

> On 2022-12-01 10:08 p.m., Family Guy wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 1:54:18 AM UTC-5, Family Guy wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>> Oh ... down that hall there is a room
> >>>> Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
> >>>> After the meal, to make no noise,
> >>>> To read or play alone, and then
> >>>>
> >>>> Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
> >>>> Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
> >>>> Face and pyjama bottoms down
> >>>> As for my father's belt I'd wait.
> >>>
> >>> Wow. No wonder you're so screwed up.
> >> "Try not to confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem." -Karla Rogers
> >>
> > Donkey:
> > He has stated this poem is "autobiographical."
>
> No, liar, Michael Monkey stated it was "autobiographical."

No, liar. I said that it was "largely autobiographical."

You pretended to take offense over that on the grounds that you'd said that it was "largely based on personal experience."

When I asked you to explain the difference between the two, you conveniently dropped the all important qualifier, "largely," and prattled on about "autobiography" vs "creative fiction."

Largely autobiographical means that it is mostly based on your personal experiences.

> Do you really think that, if you repeat his lies, he'll let you on the
> team? It won't work, any more than it worked to get you onto PJ Ross's
> team. It's time to facts: no one wants you.

If I had a team, I would certainly want Alex to be on it.

As Karen noted, his posts are often very creative... and LOL funny.