AAPC FAQ part 1 of 2
Heidi Stephens
If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
and save space.
Revised with many thanks to Josh, Sam, Mike, etc.
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FOR ALT.ARTS.POETRY.COMMENTS
PART 1 OF 2
*Many thanks for Dave "ButtonPresser" for the idea and foundation for
this document!
1. What is AAPC?
2. What does C&C mean?
3. How should I post my poetry?
4. How many poems should I post at a time?
5. What kind of header should I use?
6. Do I have to have a title for my poem?
7. Do I have to write a certain kind of poetry?
8. What if I don't get any comments?
9. Should I respond to the comments I receive?
10. When and how should I comment on other people's posts?
11. Is it OK to email my comments directly to the poet?
12. Can I rewrite someone's poem for them?
13. Do you have IRC chats or other scheduled gatherings?
14. Are there any AAPC-related web sites?
15. Are there any published / famous / infamous poets in the group?
16. Do poetry editors read the newsgroup?
17. Might I be offered a book contract by posting my poetry here?
18. What is considered off-topic?
19. Do I have to use my real name?
* * * * *
1. WHAT IS AAPC?
Alt.arts.poetry.comments is a Usenet group of poets who share their work
for comments or critiques. Some poets use the group as a sounding board
before submitting their poem(s) to literary magazines. Most are looking
for advice or help in fine-tuning their writing, developing better
images, improving their use of language, and making sure their writing
is clear and enjoyable to the reader.
2. WHAT DOES C&C MEAN?
Generally, Comments & Critiques (or Criticism). Some writers put this
in the header of their post (i.e. "Lazy Day Poem - C&C Please") to
indicate that they want comments on their poem. However, since the
group is devoted to comments, most posts will receive a reply of some
kind even without the C&C designation.
3. HOW SHOULD I POST MY POETRY?
There are no cut-and-dried rules for posting poetry to AAPC. However,
there are a few "don'ts" that are fairly broadly agreed upon:
-- Do not post your poem as an attachment to your message. Most
internet users are aware that dangerous computer viruses can be
contained in Microsoft Word documents, and will ignore .doc
attachments. In general, it is easier on the reader to include the poem
in the body of the post; downloading and opening attachments usually
takes too much time.
-- Do not post using HTML. Some newsgroup-reading software cannot
handle HTML posts, and some automatically reject them, so not everyone
will see your post. They also are larger in size and take up more space
on the computer and more bandwidth in transmission. Most software used
to read and post newsgroups allows you to choose between posting as
plain text or HTML; choose the plain text option.
-- Do not attach pictures (binaries, gifs, jpegs, etc.) or sound files
(wavs, midis, mpegs, etc.) to your posts. Again, some news servers will
automatically reject them, so not everyone will see your post.
-- Do not type your poem or message in all capital letters. Using all
caps is universally considered "shouting" in newsgroups and chat rooms.
4. HOW MANY POEMS SHOULD I POST AT A TIME?
While there is no limit to the number of poems you can post at a
sitting, people are most likely to read and respond to your poem if you
post no more than two or three at a time. And as mentioned above, since
there are many poems posted each day, a shorter work is more likely to
receive comments.
5. WHAT KIND OF HEADER SHOULD I USE?
Use the title of the poem, if it has one. If you can't decide on a
title, try a header like: "Need a Title..." to let the reader know you'd
appreciate comments on that subject. If it is your first poem-post, it
is fine to use the header "First Poem" or "First Post". Do not use
headers designed strictly to get attention, and it is preferable not to
use headers that have nothing to do with your poem.
6. DO I HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE FOR MY POEM?
Not necessarily - see #5.
7. DO I HAVE TO WRITE A CERTAIN KIND OF POETRY?
AAPC has poets who use all forms and styles of poetry. The group
includes but is not limited to free verse, tanka, haiku, sonnet,
sestina.... Feel free to use the poetic form you are most comfortable
with, or to post experiments in forms. There are several poets who are
quite knowledgeable and can help you with the rules of certain poetic
forms.
8. WHAT IF I DON'T GET ANY COMMENTS?
There could be several reasons for the lack of comments. Most likely it
is because the group is following the old rule: "If you can't say
nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." The readers might not have
understood your poem or liked it. Sometimes posts are ignored because
of too much bad spelling, grammar or punctuation, which can distract the
reader from the content of the poem and make it frustrating to get
through.
Check your post again; look for typos, correct any errors that you find,
and repost it in a few days with the note that it has been revised.
It is an (until now) unspoken rule, though, that it is best to read the
group for a few days, contribute some comments of your own, then post
your poem once people have noticed you and gotten to know you. Many
readers are more comfortable commenting when they've seen you around for
awhile and know that you are interested in what they have to say.
Also, consider the length of your post. Since there are many poems
posted every day, a shorter work is more likely to receive comments.
9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
10. WHEN AND HOW SHOULD I COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS?
All posts are open to comments. Feel free to point out what
specifically you liked about the poem: what lines, images, words did you
find particularly interesting or captivating? At the same time, you can
also point out any changes you feel might enhance the poem. If you feel
a word in a certain place is awkward, feel free to comment on it and
suggest a suitable replacement word if you can. It isn't necessary to
give a detailed commentary on each poem, though; in general, the poet
will appreciate knowing you read the poem, so a few words to indicate
you read and enjoyed it are always nice.
11. IS IT OK TO EMAIL MY COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THE POET?
This is usually a matter of personal preference. If you have become
familiar with the poet through other posts to the newsgroup, it is
generally acceptable. If you do not know the person, they may ignore
your email, so it is preferable to post to the group.
12. CAN I REWRITE SOMEONE'S POEM FOR THEM?
If you feel comfortable doing so, the poet will usually appreciate the
effort involved. Rewriting sections or giving comments on specific
lines are welcome as well.
13. DO YOU HAVE IRC CHATS OR OTHER SCHEDULED GATHERINGS?
Not as of this writing (February 1999). There is a semi-official AAPC
chat room but it has never been used for a formal AAPC chat. There has
also been some banter on having a picnic in the summer of 1999, but no
volunteer hosts as of yet.
14. ARE THERE ANY AAPC-RELATED WEB SITES?
Many of the poets have their own sites, and most list them in their
signature files or post notices of updates to the newsgroup. Some sites
run by AAPC regulars, and other AAPC-related sites are:
-- Button Presser's poetry, archives of classic AAPC posts, stranding
AAPC poets on desert islands to see who survives, and the original AAPC
FAQ: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~durel/
-- CasualTee's Audio Web Page with .wav files of poetry readings by AAPC
regulars: http://personal.riverusers.com/~kmyon/ourpoems.htm
15. ARE THERE ANY PUBLISHED / FAMOUS / INFAMOUS POETS IN THE GROUP?
Depends on who you ask! The vast majority of the poets have had some of
their work published. Some are published widely in anthologies and
well-respected poetry journals. No one has made a million from their
poetry, but we have our suspicions on who will be famous someday.
16. DO POETRY EDITORS READ THE NEWSGROUP?
Some participants are editors of poetry journals, both on-line and
print. Quite possibly there are other editors who "lurk" (read but
don't post).
17. MIGHT I BE OFFERED A BOOK CONTRACT BY POSTING MY POETRY HERE?
Not likely. If you are, be very suspicious of it.
18. WHAT IS CONSIDERED "OFF-TOPIC"?
Poets by their nature enjoy tangents. You'll see a lot of threads
beginning with a poem and going off in a sometimes bizarre, completely
unrelated direction.
By and large, keep your original posts (not part of an existing thread)
limited to your own poetry, or questions about poetry.
19. DO I HAVE TO USE MY REAL NAME?
Internet handles are okay, many regulars use them. To build
familiarity, stick to the same one, or use your real name.
Julie Damerell
question(s) and response, seems just right to me. The tone is appropriate,
too. I didn't mention it before, but I was glad to see the suggestion that
parents monitor their children's reading/attention to the newsgroup. Seems
like common sense, but it's a good reminder. I also liked your
modification of the question regarding "taboo" posts.
A monthly post sounds like a good idea, and if anyone asks, someone helpful
can always refer that person to dejanews to find the FAQ.
Here's a cybercheck and a vacation somewhere warm so you can shake the
infection cycle.
Julie
Jerry Jenkins
Good job. I mst have missed some of the discussion about FAQ#12 - poem
rewrites, but I want to chime in now before this becomes final. Many poets
don't welcome any rewrite of their work, and view it as highly presumptuous.
They may, and often do, readily entertain suggestions or analyses of where
their poem doesn't work for the reader, but I don't think we should leave
the impression that many poets enjoy someone rewriting their work or them,
or that rewrites are routine, welcome, or even accepted practice. Doing it
is a matter requiring good judgment and a great deal of diplomacy and tact.
It's best not to try it unless you know the poet pretty well and know that
he or she is receptive to rewriting their work.
I'd suggest leaving the issue off the FAQ list entirely and just deal with
it when and if it comes up.
Otherwise, this group of questions and answers is well-done and highly
practical.
Jerry
chuck...@my-dejanews.com
Heidi Stephens <heidi_s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> This is how I see heading the regular post -- does monthly sound good?
> If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
> and save space.
> Revised with many thanks to Josh, Sam, Mike, etc.
good idea, and selfless of you. some might think of stuff to add from time
to time, or might get around to reading the whole thing and find something
missing, so there might be occasional threads started from it (like there are
now).
then heidi said:
> 18. WHAT IS CONSIDERED "OFF-TOPIC"?
> Poets by their nature enjoy tangents. You'll see a lot of threads
> beginning with a poem and going off in a sometimes bizarre, completely
> unrelated direction.
see, i don't know if that's really a poet's *nature*, it could just be our
society. though probably not, as i do it on RARE occasions and i'm a fairly
antisocial guy. i think i know why i'm antisocial:
when i was a boy, we had this old 50's refrigerator, and it had a latch
that locked tight, instead of the slight suction they have today; it was the
kind of fridge you get stuck inside. anyways, once, when i had just
discovered i was finally big enough to open it myself if i grasped the handle
with both hands and leaned all my weight back, i decided to see if it would
hurt if i shut my nose in the door. i can't remember the inspiration behind
the musing, but i remember the unbearable need to know, which drives so many
to become artists and scientists (and hairdressers). so, not able to satisfy
myself with asking mom and dad if it would hurt, i put my drink down, leaned
close to the fridge, and gently pressed the door shut on my nose until i
heard the latch click. it did not hurt. but i could not reach the handle
with both hands, nor lean back with all my weight, with my nose where it was.
mom was on the phone in the same room. i raised an inarticulate nasal cry
of the trapped, at which she whirled around, as mothers do at such sounds
from their young, and almost fell over laughing. this is why i'm antisocial.
anyway, maybe the digression tendency is indeed a poet's curse, as opposed to
a societal thing. we'll probably never know for sure. maybe we should ask
alt.arts.hairdressers, i bet they'd know.
later,
chuckk
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
chuck...@my-dejanews.com
> If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
> and save space.
ps are you planning to make it one thread, replying with the same stuff each
month? that would save space in dejanews and the like. you could cut out the
"re" in the subject and instead of having the message automatically quoted,
cut and paste it manually, that way it wouldn't look like a reply.
knowhutimean?
carmen
carmen
>9. Should I respond to the comments I receive?
>9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
>Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
>to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
>and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
>your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
I wonder if it would be a good idea to say something about how to reply:
keeping the whole text in the message you are responding, or deleting the
text except those paragraphs you're going to reply. Sometimes, when the
original message was only about 1 or 2K, the thread has messages 15K or 20K.
I, personally, don't have any problem with that, but it seems to be a
regular thing to consider a message is rude when the new contents are less
than a 20%. Just a thought.
carmen
gga...@excite.com
Hill) wrote:
>Personally I prefer it when people include the original body.
>Sometimes I read a comment before I haven't read the poem, and decide
>to check out the latter; sometimes I have only a vague recollection of
>the original verse.
>
>I would however suggest that people respond to messages at the top, as
>I have here, rather than at the bottom, since it saves the reader
>time.
>
>Josh
ditto that
gg
Heidi Stephens
rather avoid using DejaNews if at all possible. I split the document
into two parts to save on downloading time, and I see it evolving
continually as people think of other things to include or change. Would
it be a problem to post is as a new thread each month? What does
everyone else think? Someday soon I'll do it up in HTML real pretty
like, and maybe then we can eliminate the monthly post altogether, just
point people to the web site.
Heidi
chuck...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <36D02ADD...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Heidi Stephens <heidi_s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > This is how I see heading the regular post -- does monthly sound good?
> > If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
> > and save space.
>
Heidi Stephens
original body when you're commenting on specific lines or stanzas, or
specific statements? Or something to that effect. Anybody else wanna
throw in a thought on that one?
Heidi
carmen wrote:
>
> >9. Should I respond to the comments I receive?
>
> >9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
> >Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
> >to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
> >and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
> >your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
>
CasualTee
download time for me isn't even significant, is it much longer for others?
Joshua P. Hill
Sometimes I read a comment before I haven't read the poem, and decide
to check out the latter; sometimes I have only a vague recollection of
the original verse.
I would however suggest that people respond to messages at the top, as
I have here, rather than at the bottom, since it saves the reader
time.
Josh
On 23 Feb 1999 01:12:38 GMT, Heidi Stephens
<heidi_s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>That's a good idea. How about suggesting that you only include the
>original body when you're commenting on specific lines or stanzas, or
>specific statements? Or something to that effect. Anybody else wanna
>throw in a thought on that one?
>
>Heidi
>
>
>carmen wrote:
>>
>> >9. Should I respond to the comments I receive?
>>
>> >9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
>> >Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
>> >to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
>> >and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
>> >your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
>>
Joshua P. Hill
>On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:42:35 GMT, josh...@mindspring.com (Joshua P.
>Hill) wrote:
>
>>Personally I prefer it when people include the original body.
>>Sometimes I read a comment before I haven't read the poem, and decide
>>to check out the latter; sometimes I have only a vague recollection of
>>the original verse.
>>
>>I would however suggest that people respond to messages at the top, as
>>I have here, rather than at the bottom, since it saves the reader
>>time.
>>
>>Josh
>
>ditto that
>
>gg
If I were a computer on Star Trek I would be self-destructing about
now
Chuckk of the Badger People
>
> I don't know how to do that with the newsreader I'm using, and I'd
> rather avoid using DejaNews if at all possible. I split the document
> into two parts to save on downloading time, and I see it evolving
> continually as people think of other things to include or change. Would
> it be a problem to post is as a new thread each month? What does
wouldn't really be a problem for me, just it would take up less listing
room in some browsers, but really if it's once a month they won't even
be close enough together to tell. my bad.
> everyone else think? Someday soon I'll do it up in HTML real pretty
> like, and maybe then we can eliminate the monthly post altogether, just
> point people to the web site.
now that sounds like a good idea. is that what most ng's do?
i guess posting it afresh would be fine with me, i don't know what it
would do to anyone else.
later,
chuckk
>
> Heidi
>
> chuck...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <36D02ADD...@worldnet.att.net>,
> > Heidi Stephens <heidi_s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > > This is how I see heading the regular post -- does monthly sound good?
> > > If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
> > > and save space.
> >
> > ps are you planning to make it one thread, replying with the same stuff each
> > month? that would save space in dejanews and the like. you could cut out the
> > "re" in the subject and instead of having the message automatically quoted,
> > cut and paste it manually, that way it wouldn't look like a reply.
> > knowhutimean?
> >
> > chuckk
> >
> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
http://www.paonline.com/chuckk/ -TOUCHED CHUCKK'S PAGE OF incongruity...
Dale Houstman
All this was good work on your part. It made me tired thinking of it.
Other questions:
____________________________________
If I'm related to Sharon can I call you up?
If poetry was a growth would it be on my frontal lobes or my ass?
Must I use vowels? The Egyptians didn't use vowels!
If I am writing a poem about Jesus, can I dress him in a tuxedo?
If they left "The Emperor of Ice Cream" in the sun, would
it turn into the water of memory?
What Me Worry?
If I hurt someone can I count on you guys to help hide the body?
Is poetry anything like cheese?
Why am yu sew mien to me?
Can someone send me their underthings for inspiration?
If I don't want to comment, and I don't want comments, and I don't
write poems, and I don't read poems, where do I fit in?
Why not more poems about emus? (colecanths, clams, rodentia, etc.)
_________________________________________________
DMH
gga...@excite.com
what's the poem in Patch Adams?
why isn't everyone from downtown Philly?
I was watching a beautiful sunset when I wrote my poam, why can't you
see the imagery?
Am I the first person to ever use the phrase: "darkness envelops me"?
Do I have to actually read Shakespeare to compare myself to him?
Help, I'm looking for the text of a poem for my sick grandma, it has a
tree and a millstream in it. Can anyone help?
I need a complete analysis of "The Second Coming" by tomorrow morning
please e-mail me ASAP. ps, it has to be double spaced.
Get Your Poetry Published on the Internet. Poets!!! please come see my
webpage, sign the guestbook. and submit your ORIGINAL poems, and I'll
put them on my site. www.clueless.geocities.com
Yew guys are all klueless and meen, you need to read more, this place
is four the birds. Please rerite my poam. email me, i'm to busy with
my potry contest to waste my time checking this ng.
this is the way the world ends needs a comma
this is the way the world ends semicolon here
this is the way the world ends too repetitive for me
not with a bang but with a whimper comma after bang,
don't like *whimper* how about using *sigh*
Dale, where have you been?
gg
Joshua P. Hill
<dale.h...@gte.net> wrote:
> Why not more poems about emus? (colecanths, clams, rodentia, etc.)
>_________________________________________________
>DMH
Because we are not emused
carmen
> write poems, and I don't read poems, where do I fit in?
In the closet
(you never know when you are going to need them)
carmen
the group is not the group without Dale... missed you...
Dale Houstman
>
> the group is not the group without Dale... missed you...
Thanks, but this isn't true; Dale is not Dale without the group.
DMH
Dale Houstman
FAQ ANSWERS:
>
> what's the poem in Patch Adams?
who gives a RAT'S ASS? I only wish Robin Williams would
stop making movies in which he is (A) A saint (B) A doctor
(C) A saintly doctor.
> why isn't everyone from downtown Philly?
I like your cream cheese!
> I was watching a beautiful sunset when I wrote my poam, why can't you
> see the imagery?
Like all computer-junkies, we're blind.
> Am I the first person to ever use the phrase: "darkness envelops me"?
No, but you use it so well. "Darkness is the stamp on the envelope
of my life"
> Do I have to actually read Shakespeare to compare myself to him?
Don't worry, he's never in print anyway.
> Help, I'm looking for the text of a poem for my sick grandma, it has a
> tree and a millstream in it. Can anyone help?
Goddard Polka's "Tree Next to a Millstream"
>I need a complete analysis of "The Second Coming" by tomorrow morning
>please e-mail me ASAP. ps, it has to be double spaced.
Paranoid schizophrenic with a tendency toward delusional caffeination;
Sid (the Pygmy) is heir to the Throne of Migrania. A delightful epic:
see: "Duke of Prunes" by Zappa for modern treatment of same theme.
Good luck!
> Get Your Poetry Published on the Internet. Poets!!! please come see my
> webpage, sign the guestbook. and submit your ORIGINAL poems, and I'll
> put them on my site. www.clueless.geocities.com
I am tired of killing publishers.
> Yew guys are all klueless and meen, you need to read more, this place
> is four the birds. Please rerite my poam. email me, i'm to busy with
> my potry contest to waste my time checking this ng.
Damn! You're right! I'm outta here...
________________________________
> Dale, where have you been?
You don't wanta know. And I don't wanta say.
DMH
Heidi Stephens
HTS
Dale Houstman wrote:
>
> Heidi,
>
> All this was good work on your part. It made me tired thinking of it.
>
> Other questions:
> ____________________________________
>
> If I'm related to Sharon can I call you up?
> If poetry was a growth would it be on my frontal lobes or my ass?
> Must I use vowels? The Egyptians didn't use vowels!
> If I am writing a poem about Jesus, can I dress him in a tuxedo?
> If they left "The Emperor of Ice Cream" in the sun, would
> it turn into the water of memory?
> What Me Worry?
> If I hurt someone can I count on you guys to help hide the body?
> Is poetry anything like cheese?
> Why am yu sew mien to me?
> Can someone send me their underthings for inspiration?
> If I don't want to comment, and I don't want comments, and I don't
> write poems, and I don't read poems, where do I fit in?
Button Presser
Keep up the good work Heidi
Ever wished you hadn't started something?
Dave
gga...@excite.com wrote in message
<36d2b5b1...@news.bcsupernet.com>...
>On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:27:27 -0600, Dale Houstman
>what's the poem in Patch Adams?
>
>why isn't everyone from downtown Philly?
>
>I was watching a beautiful sunset when I wrote my poam, why can't you
>see the imagery?
>
>Am I the first person to ever use the phrase: "darkness envelops me"?
>
>Do I have to actually read Shakespeare to compare myself to him?
>
>Help, I'm looking for the text of a poem for my sick grandma, it has a
>tree and a millstream in it. Can anyone help?
>
>I need a complete analysis of "The Second Coming" by tomorrow morning
>please e-mail me ASAP. ps, it has to be double spaced.
>
>Get Your Poetry Published on the Internet. Poets!!! please come see my
>webpage, sign the guestbook. and submit your ORIGINAL poems, and I'll
>put them on my site. www.clueless.geocities.com
>
>Yew guys are all klueless and meen, you need to read more, this place
>is four the birds. Please rerite my poam. email me, i'm to busy with
>my potry contest to waste my time checking this ng.
>
>this is the way the world ends needs a comma
>this is the way the world ends semicolon here
>this is the way the world ends too repetitive for me
>not with a bang but with a whimper comma after bang,
>
> don't like *whimper* how about using *sigh*
>
>
>Dale, where have you been?
>gg
Heidi Stephens
like I've accomplished something. Of course, my boss probably won't see
it as an acceptable, if not superior, substitute for the analysis of all
business inquiries and sources from the past three years that I was
supposed to hand in tomorrow. Gotta go back, though; can't cough my way
pitifully through another "you're the glue that holds our organization
together" lecture.
HTS
carmen
the group is not Dale without the group
Dale is not the group without Dale
the group is not Dale without Dale
Dale is not Dale without Dale
the group is not the group is not the group
carmen -stein
so carm
Michael Stephens
carmen wrote in message <7b1r6k$2l1$1...@remarQ.com>...
> Dale is not the group without the group
> the group is not Dale without the group
> Dale is not the group without Dale
> the group is not Dale without Dale
> Dale is not Dale without Dale
> the group is not the group is not the group
>
>carmen -stein
>so carm
>
Thank you, Carmie. Finally some straight answers.
ms
dale groupie
ng grouper
Karmen Ghia
chia pet
Jerry H. Jenkins
Michael Stephens wrote:
>
> Karmen Ghia
> chia pet
Dale Houstman
_____________________________________-
Dale is a group by himself, composed (as it were)
of socipathic notions held together by a self-loathing
that modifies his misanthropism just enough to render
him bearable to some few who are just bright enough
to notice they are being wooed by a sociopath into
a very shabby vehicle, and so can resist that lure
(tiny as it is and naked of bait) and see the coaxer
for what he is, and feel sorry for themselves for having
turned in that direction initially.
1.Group mind.
2.Group grope.
3.Grope mine.
4.Go grok.
5.Grow grot.
6.Road rot.
7.Raw rat.
________________________________
DMH
"The group mind doesn't mind. It minces."
Franklin Delkes, "Groups In Crisis"
carmen
Dale Houstman wrote in message <7b2114$ah$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>...
>carmen,
>
>
>
>_____________________________________-
>Dale is a group by himself, composed (as it were)
>of socipathic notions held together by a self-loathing
>that modifies his misanthropism just enough to render
>him bearable to some few who are just bright enough
>to notice they are being wooed by a sociopath into
>a very shabby vehicle, and so can resist that lure
>(tiny as it is and naked of bait) and see the coaxer
>for what he is, and feel sorry for themselves for having
>turned in that direction initially.
>
>1.Group mind.
>2.Group grope.
>3.Grope mine.
>4.Go grok.
>5.Grow grot.
>6.Road rot.
>7.Raw rat.
tar war
turk dwarf
torah
carmen
"The group, blind, doesn't find its mice"
Frankly, Deledda with Chris is
or so I was told.
Joshua P. Hill
Will Dockery
> This is how I see heading the regular post -- does monthly sound good?
> If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
> and save space.
>
>
>
> PART 1 OF 2
>
> *Many thanks for Dave "ButtonPresser" for the idea and foundation for
> this document!
>
>
> 1. What is AAPC?
> 2. What does C&C mean?
> 3. How should I post my poetry?
> 4. How many poems should I post at a time?
> 5. What kind of header should I use?
> 6. Do I have to have a title for my poem?
> 7. Do I have to write a certain kind of poetry?
> 8. What if I don't get any comments?
> 11. Is it OK to email my comments directly to the poet?
> 12. Can I rewrite someone's poem for them?
> 13. Do you have IRC chats or other scheduled gatherings?
> 14. Are there any AAPC-related web sites?
> 15. Are there any published / famous / infamous poets in the group?
> 16. Do poetry editors read the newsgroup?
> 17. Might I be offered a book contract by posting my poetry here?
> 18. What is considered off-topic?
> 19. Do I have to use my real name?
> * * * * *
>
> 1. WHAT IS AAPC?
> Alt.arts.poetry.comments is a Usenet group of poets who share their work
> for comments or critiques. Some poets use the group as a sounding board
> before submitting their poem(s) to literary magazines. Most are looking
> for advice or help in fine-tuning their writing, developing better
> images, improving their use of language, and making sure their writing
> is clear and enjoyable to the reader.
>
> 2. WHAT DOES C&C MEAN?
> Generally, Comments & Critiques (or Criticism). Some writers put this
> in the header of their post (i.e. "Lazy Day Poem - C&C Please") to
> indicate that they want comments on their poem. However, since the
> group is devoted to comments, most posts will receive a reply of some
> kind even without the C&C designation.
>
> 3. HOW SHOULD I POST MY POETRY?
> There are no cut-and-dried rules for posting poetry to AAPC. However,
> there are a few "don'ts" that are fairly broadly agreed upon:
> -- Do not post your poem as an attachment to your message. Most
> internet users are aware that dangerous computer viruses can be
> contained in Microsoft Word documents, and will ignore .doc
> attachments. In general, it is easier on the reader to include the poem
> in the body of the post; downloading and opening attachments usually
> takes too much time.
> -- Do not post using HTML. Some newsgroup-reading software cannot
> handle HTML posts, and some automatically reject them, so not everyone
> will see your post. They also are larger in size and take up more space
> on the computer and more bandwidth in transmission. Most software used
> to read and post newsgroups allows you to choose between posting as
> plain text or HTML; choose the plain text option.
> -- Do not attach pictures (binaries, gifs, jpegs, etc.) or sound files
> (wavs, midis, mpegs, etc.) to your posts. Again, some news servers will
> automatically reject them, so not everyone will see your post.
> -- Do not type your poem or message in all capital letters. Using all
> caps is universally considered "shouting" in newsgroups and chat rooms.
>
> 4. HOW MANY POEMS SHOULD I POST AT A TIME?
> While there is no limit to the number of poems you can post at a
> sitting, people are most likely to read and respond to your poem if you
> post no more than two or three at a time. And as mentioned above, since
> there are many poems posted each day, a shorter work is more likely to
> receive comments.
>
> 5. WHAT KIND OF HEADER SHOULD I USE?
> Use the title of the poem, if it has one. If you can't decide on a
> title, try a header like: "Need a Title..." to let the reader know you'd
> appreciate comments on that subject. If it is your first poem-post, it
> is fine to use the header "First Poem" or "First Post". Do not use
> headers designed strictly to get attention, and it is preferable not to
> use headers that have nothing to do with your poem.
>
> 6. DO I HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE FOR MY POEM?
> Not necessarily - see #5.
>
> 7. DO I HAVE TO WRITE A CERTAIN KIND OF POETRY?
> AAPC has poets who use all forms and styles of poetry. The group
> includes but is not limited to free verse, tanka, haiku, sonnet,
> sestina.... Feel free to use the poetic form you are most comfortable
> with, or to post experiments in forms. There are several poets who are
> quite knowledgeable and can help you with the rules of certain poetic
> forms.
>
> 8. WHAT IF I DON'T GET ANY COMMENTS?
> There could be several reasons for the lack of comments. Most likely it
> is because the group is following the old rule: "If you can't say
> nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." The readers might not have
> understood your poem or liked it. Sometimes posts are ignored because
> of too much bad spelling, grammar or punctuation, which can distract the
> reader from the content of the poem and make it frustrating to get
> through.
> Check your post again; look for typos, correct any errors that you find,
> and repost it in a few days with the note that it has been revised.
> It is an (until now) unspoken rule, though, that it is best to read the
> group for a few days, contribute some comments of your own, then post
> your poem once people have noticed you and gotten to know you. Many
> readers are more comfortable commenting when they've seen you around for
> awhile and know that you are interested in what they have to say.
> Also, consider the length of your post. Since there are many poems
> posted every day, a shorter work is more likely to receive comments.
> 9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
> Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
> to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
> and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
> your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
>
> All posts are open to comments. Feel free to point out what
> specifically you liked about the poem: what lines, images, words did you
> find particularly interesting or captivating? At the same time, you can
> also point out any changes you feel might enhance the poem. If you feel
> a word in a certain place is awkward, feel free to comment on it and
> suggest a suitable replacement word if you can. It isn't necessary to
> give a detailed commentary on each poem, though; in general, the poet
> will appreciate knowing you read the poem, so a few words to indicate
> you read and enjoyed it are always nice.
>
> 11. IS IT OK TO EMAIL MY COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THE POET?
> This is usually a matter of personal preference. If you have become
> familiar with the poet through other posts to the newsgroup, it is
> generally acceptable. If you do not know the person, they may ignore
> your email, so it is preferable to post to the group.
>
> 12. CAN I REWRITE SOMEONE'S POEM FOR THEM?
> If you feel comfortable doing so, the poet will usually appreciate the
> effort involved. Rewriting sections or giving comments on specific
> lines are welcome as well.
>
> 13. DO YOU HAVE IRC CHATS OR OTHER SCHEDULED GATHERINGS?
> Not as of this writing (February 1999). There is a semi-official AAPC
> chat room but it has never been used for a formal AAPC chat. There has
> also been some banter on having a picnic in the summer of 1999, but no
> volunteer hosts as of yet.
>
> 14. ARE THERE ANY AAPC-RELATED WEB SITES?
> Many of the poets have their own sites, and most list them in their
> signature files or post notices of updates to the newsgroup. Some sites
> run by AAPC regulars, and other AAPC-related sites are:
> -- Button Presser's poetry, archives of classic AAPC posts, stranding
> AAPC poets on desert islands to see who survives, and the original AAPC
> FAQ: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~durel/
> -- CasualTee's Audio Web Page with .wav files of poetry readings by AAPC
> regulars: http://personal.riverusers.com/~kmyon/ourpoems.htm
>
> 15. ARE THERE ANY PUBLISHED / FAMOUS / INFAMOUS POETS IN THE GROUP?
> Depends on who you ask! The vast majority of the poets have had some of
> their work published. Some are published widely in anthologies and
> well-respected poetry journals. No one has made a million from their
> poetry, but we have our suspicions on who will be famous someday.
>
> 16. DO POETRY EDITORS READ THE NEWSGROUP?
> Some participants are editors of poetry journals, both on-line and
> print. Quite possibly there are other editors who "lurk" (read but
> don't post).
>
> 17. MIGHT I BE OFFERED A BOOK CONTRACT BY POSTING MY POETRY HERE?
> Not likely. If you are, be very suspicious of it.
>
> 18. WHAT IS CONSIDERED "OFF-TOPIC"?
> Poets by their nature enjoy tangents. You'll see a lot of threads
> beginning with a poem and going off in a sometimes bizarre, completely
> unrelated direction.
> By and large, keep your original posts (not part of an existing thread)
> limited to your own poetry, or questions about poetry.
>
> 19. DO I HAVE TO USE MY REAL NAME?
> Internet handles are okay, many regulars use them. To build
> familiarity, stick to the same one, or use your real name.
Well, here's a good one from 1999, that may add favorably to the mix.
:)
Will Dockery
>
> Heidi,
>
> Good job. I must have missed some of the discussion about FAQ#12 - poem
> rewrites, but I want to chime in now before this becomes final. Many poets
> don't welcome any rewrite of their work, and view it as highly presumptuous.
> They may, and often do, readily entertain suggestions or analyses of where
> their poem doesn't work for the reader, but I don't think we should leave
> the impression that many poets enjoy someone rewriting their work or them,
> or that rewrites are routine, welcome, or even accepted practice. Doing it
> is a matter requiring good judgment and a great deal of diplomacy and tact.
> It's best not to try it unless you know the poet pretty well and know that
> he or she is receptive to rewriting their work.
>
> I'd suggest leaving the issue off the FAQ list entirely and just deal with
> it when and if it comes up.
Richard, take note, perhaps.
While I actually enjoy your re-writes, find them sometimes helpful and amusing, not every poet does.
> Otherwise, this group of questions and answers is well-done and highly
> practical.
>
> Jerry
Richard Oakley
> On Sunday, February 21, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Jerry Jenkins wrote:
> >
> > Heidi,
> >
> > Good job. I must have missed some of the discussion about FAQ#12 - poem
> > rewrites, but I want to chime in now before this becomes final. Many poets
> > don't welcome any rewrite of their work, and view it as highly presumptuous.
I will leave it for 'you'. Now, to write in simple fixes (things that any sane editor,
or friend might make) are ALWAYS appreciated (as any free thing is).
Brooke
Will Dockery
Just a heads up.
:)
Richard Oakley
> Richard, Jerry Jenkins wrote that bit you quoted, not me.
>
> Just a heads up.
>
That -- is -- all.
> :)
Will Dockery
> On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 7:02:11 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Jerry Jenkins wrote:
> > >
> > > Heidi,
> > >
> > > Good job. I must have missed some of the discussion about FAQ#12 - poem
> > > rewrites, but I want to chime in now before this becomes final. Many poets
> > > don't welcome any rewrite of their work, and view it as highly presumptuous.
>
> ...and even smart people can be whinny babies, if 'you' rewrite what I wrote
> I will leave it for 'you'. Now, to write in simple fixes (things that any sane editor,
> or friend might make) are ALWAYS appreciated (as any free thing is).
drive-by
Michael Pendragon
When limited to the confines of this group, I see it as just another form of "workshopping."
drive-by
J
Will Dockery
Zod
Zod
> Wonderful work on parts 1 and 2, Heidi. The revision on #10, both in
> question(s) and response, seems just right to me. The tone is appropriate,
> too. I didn't mention it before, but I was glad to see the suggestion that
> parents monitor their children's reading/attention to the newsgroup. Seems
> like common sense, but it's a good reminder. I also liked your
> modification of the question regarding "taboo" posts.
> A monthly post sounds like a good idea, and if anyone asks, someone helpful
> can always refer that person to dejanews to find the FAQ.
> Here's a cybercheck and a vacation somewhere warm so you can shake the
> infection cycle.
> Julie
The original and the best...
Will Dockery
Zod
Will Dockery
Zod
Usenet is Forever...
W.Dockery
****************
Zod
Zod
>
> Heidi,
>
> All this was good work on your part. It made me tired thinking of it.
> Other questions:
> ____________________________________
> If I'm related to Sharon can I call you up?
> If poetry was a growth would it be on my frontal lobes or my ass?
> Must I use vowels? The Egyptians didn't use vowels!
> If I am writing a poem about Jesus, can I dress him in a tuxedo?
> If they left "The Emperor of Ice Cream" in the sun, would
> it turn into the water of memory?
> What Me Worry?
> If I hurt someone can I count on you guys to help hide the body?
> Is poetry anything like cheese?
> Why am yu sew mien to me?
> Can someone send me their underthings for inspiration?
> If I don't want to comment, and I don't want comments, and I don't
> write poems, and I don't read poems, where do I fit in?
> Why not more poems about emus? (colecanths, clams, rodentia, etc.)
> _________________________________________________
> DMH
Hilarious....
Will Dockery
>
> This is how I see heading the regular post -- does monthly sound good?
> If I use the same header each time, then the regulars can filter it out
> and save space.
> Revised with many thanks to Josh, Sam, Mike, etc.
:)