Is Hatsumi only after money?
Peter Carlsson
is doing.
"Paul Bik" <enniomo...@mailcity.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:4b44b356.01110...@posting.google.com...
> I have great respect for Soke Hatsumi's knowledge and skill, but I
> feel he is abusing it by making tons of money from ninjutsu.
What "tons of money"?
Bujinkan is known to be one of the cheaper traditional arts in Japan. A
shodan costs
10000 Yen in Bujinkan, but if you are doing flower-arrangement, te-cermony
or other
traditional arts you can be forced to pay ten times as much for a grade.
One of Hatsumi senseis teachers charged for every technique that was taught.
Another point is that most of the money Hatsumi sensei makes from membership
fees and
gradings goes back into Bujinkan. How would he else have been able to build
a honbu-dojo
in Noda-shi. Neither land nor construction are part of the cheapest things
you can find in Japan.
>
> In Takamatsu's time it was closely guarded but now anyone who pays can
> train and get a 1st Dan or higher. Why?
Why not? If he hadn't opened up Bujinkan to the public, you wouldn't know
anything about
it and wouldn't have anything to slander either...
Read Ben Coles notes in the thread above about the high dan rankings in
Bujinkan. Then you may
understand something, or probably not!!!
>
> Look at the hundreds of students crammed into halls on tai-kai. There
> is no room to train properly but yet he encourages this mass cattle
> pilgrimage. Why?
>
It's not Hatsumi sensei that is arranging the Taikais. He is only coming as
a guest.
Ask the ones doing the taikais, and ask those who participate time after
time, why
they still go since "there is no room to train properly".
> Why do membership fees at Bujinkan increase with higher grades? Is
> this perhaps why people get 1st, 5th, 10th and 13th Dans so quickly?
Read Ben Coles notes in the thread above about the high dan rankings in
Bujinkan. Then you may
understand something, or probably not!!!
>
> Why has he become a multi-millionaire from ninjutsu?
>
How much do you know about Hatsumi senseis
economy????????????????????????????
> Why are videos so expensive?
>
Not more expensive than videos from other martial arts...
> Why did he tell richard van Donk in an interview that things are
> evolving so fast that students who do not train with him in Japan now
> will be left behind? If the art has been around for 900 years, how
> come it is now suddenly so urgent to get new knowledge?
If you are not training, you cant understand what he is meaning with this.
>
> As I said, I do not doubt his legitimacy but I question the way he has
> become a cult figure whose position has brought him millions.
Get the facts first, then you can slander if you want to. But to slander
before you know anything
is pathetic...
Peter Carlsson
Sweden
bencole
> I have great respect for Soke Hatsumi's knowledge and skill
As evidenced by your amazing line of logic hereafter....
> In Takamatsu's time it was closely guarded but now anyone who pays can
> train and get a 1st Dan or higher. Why?
I already addressed this issue of rank in a separate thread. Ed Lomax
also mentioned that rank is a "consequence of training" :) that you
must learn to deal with.... It makes some sense that those who train
would gain some knowledge, which then eventually manifests into a
piece of paper that allows them to teach officially. Nothing magical
here.
> Look at the hundreds of students crammed into halls on tai-kai. There
> is no room to train properly but yet he encourages this mass cattle
> pilgrimage. Why?
Soke has tried to ask the people who coordinate the Taikai to limit
the numbers...but they keep coming! They come even though it is
expensive, crowded and sometimes halfway across the world. Man, that
Hatsumi guy must be quite a showman! LOL!
> Why do membership fees at Bujinkan increase with higher grades? Is
> this perhaps why people get 1st, 5th, 10th and 13th Dans so quickly?
Obviously Hatsumi-sensei just needs some new beer money every week!
Both myself and others have addressed this issue regarding rank. You
can accept the answer or continue to ask silly questions like this....
> Why has he become a multi-millionaire from ninjutsu?
As Peter mentioned, most all of the money has come back into Budo and
into the Bujinkan. Hatsumi-sensei uses the money he earns to do things
such as assemble Budo weaponry and art, build the Hombu dojo, and in
time, build a Ninja Museum and larger dojo up on a new plot of land in
Saitama that he purchased just for that purpose. This will cost
MILLIONS of dollars to build and upkeep in Japan, believe me. The
weaponry and art that he has amassed will be going on display there. I
have also heard that he wanted to make a movie about his teacher,
Takamatsu-sensei. This too will take money; even if he gets buy-in
from a studio, he will have to be willing to put up some money as
well. Most Japanese won't be rushing to see a flick about a man they
have never heard of. :) Only us crazy Bujinkan practitioners will be
interested in the goings-on of this obscure little man from Nara.
Soke lives a pretty simple life. He teaches Budo. He walks his dogs.
And so forth. As was hinted by Peter, his lessons are cheaper than
others. Hell, his lessons are cheaper than English lessons from a
recent college grad in Japan. :) Not a bad deal for training with one
of the greatest martial artists in the world, in my opinion.
> Why are videos so expensive?
Have you ever made a video in Japan? I have. I used to work at a
publisher when I was living there and was involved with the creation
of video, CD and cassette tapes. The cassettes started at $30. The CDs
were $70. The videos about $120. It was a small run with limited
market potential. The rest is basic economics.
> Why did he tell richard van Donk in an interview that things are
> evolving so fast that students who do not train with him in Japan now
> will be left behind?
Because it's true. Ask anyone who has been around for a few years.
Soke's art is constantly evolving as he becomes better and better. It
is VERY easy to lose the feeling that Soke is honing by not training
with him on a regular basis.
> If the art has been around for 900 years, how
> come it is now suddenly so urgent to get new knowledge?
See above. Soke is a gardener of a living thing called Bujinkan Budo
Taijutsu. He is not a museum curator like many other martial arts
teachers.
> As I said, I do not doubt his legitimacy but I question the way he has
> become a cult figure whose position has brought him millions.
Cool! A cult leader! I'm glad to know I fit in somewhere! LOL! :)
Hatsumi-sensei is a no-nonsense man. He does not try to create a cult
of personality around himself. He merely teaches Budo...and they still
come? Why? Because he's damn good at what he does. And he constantly
pushes himself, and those who continue their training with him, to
higher and higher levels.
The level of some of the people that I have seen in recent years is
absolutely frightening! My only hope to get that good as well!
> Perhaps he is doing it deliberately - passing the true art to a small
> group of Japanese while having a big joke at the expense of us gai-jin?
Perhaps he's jipping the Japanese too! LOL! :) You'll never know.
One thing I do know is that if I stop training, the chances of me
moving like Hatsumi-sensei when I am 70 years old are zero. So I guess
that means I'll have to keep at it, make an occasional trip to Japan
to keep up with things, and spend some money here and there. The
choice is simple, in my humble opinion.
-ben
AP
Think about what you're saying.
Compare the amount of TKD, Karate, Kickboxing, Kung Fu clubs out there with
the amount of true Bujinkan Dojos.
You'll realize he isn't making anything close to what you think he is.
And when you consider the fact that you can watch his tapes over and over,
you'll realize $40 is nothing to pay for a tape. Some Martial Artists (not
just Bujinkan) charge $100+ bucks an hour for one-on-one training. Maybe you
should ask yourself how valuable the material is to you, personally? If it
saved your life, would it be worth forthy bucks? Or would you still whine?
Most techniques take only seconds to execute, and we're talking about an
1800 second tape. Granted, the tape is probably not all technique, but
still.
As for crammed students at tai-kai, all I can say is, why should anyone
train ONLY under ideal conditions. Chaos is good.
> Why do membership fees at Bujinkan increase with higher grades? Is
> this perhaps why people get 1st, 5th, 10th and 13th Dans so quickly?
Commitment.
> Why has he become a multi-millionaire from ninjutsu?
I doubt if that statement is true. And even if it is, I don't see a problem.
If X charges $Y for Z, then that's how much it costs, end of story. For what
reason do you think this is any different?
> Why are videos so expensive?
Why is gold more expensive than bullshit?
> Perhaps he is doing it deliberately - passing the true art to a small
> group of Japanese while having a big joke at the expense of us
> gai-jin?
Perhaps.Why don't you ask him yourself?
Ed
that you are either seriously stupid about how to ask questions about
your doubts (try a different less insulting line next time) or are
just another spammer.
I have heard this whinge soo many times from people who want the
Bujinkan to be like Taekwondo or some other bargain basement art -
well sorry but then you would have grading tests to pay even if you
fail, have to buy the official patches, gi's belts etc. Have to buy a
newsletter, have to send a percentage of all dojo fees back to the
Soke.
From what I calculate Hatsumi Soke gets a lot less than other
grandmasters, demands a lot less than us, and gives a whole lot more
in return.
But ofcourse this will never be respected by anybody that wants
classes cheaper than a pack of smokes, dojo's next door, or prowess in
a pill.
Paul Bik
Paul
"Peter Carlsson" <peter.i....@telia.com> wrote in message news:<b9bE7.3260$R43.5...@newsb.telia.net>...
Paul Bik
A lot of this so-called "slander" was told to me by a high-ranking
ninjutsu teacher called Ashida Kim who I met a while ago on a seminar
and visit he gave in Africa. He knows a lot about Bujinkan and Dr
Hatsumi and has written many books. I am joining a dojo run by one of
his students.
I didn't mean to sound like slandering anyone, but I stick to my
opinion that Bujinkan has a commercialised air about it (patches,
T-shirts etc.)
Paul
"Peter Carlsson" <peter.i....@telia.com> wrote in message news:<b9bE7.3260$R43.5...@newsb.telia.net>...
bencole
> ninjutsu teacher called Ashida Kim who I met a while ago on a seminar
> and visit he gave in Africa. He knows a lot about Bujinkan and Dr
> Hatsumi and has written many books. I am joining a dojo run by one of
> his students.
Dear Lord, you're training with Ashida Kim's group? You didn't find it
strange that Ashida was a 40 year old white guy with a Korean name who
supposedly teaches a Japanese art? Hm.... Might want to take a look at
the archives about this guy before you start giving him money. Also
check the archives on www.E-budo.com
Did you ask him where his expertise comes from? Any documentation of a
lineage or anything like that?
There is a Bujinkan dojo in Johannesburg, fyi. You might want to try
to find it.
> I didn't mean to sound like slandering anyone, but I stick to my
> opinion that Bujinkan has a commercialised air about it (patches,
> T-shirts etc.)
Patches? T-shirts? What exactly are you talking about? How many
Bujinkan practitioners have you ever met or seen?
Surely patches exist. People wear them with pride on their dogi
(training uniform) to show their love for the art. Hatsumi-sensei has
nothing to do with T-shirts. Those are usually produced on a local
level by dojos. I've got about five of them, all of which were gifts
from friends. Some are cool. Some are dorky. All have the dojo name
and Bujinkan name on them. None of the people making them are rolling
in the dough, though. It's hard to make tons of money printing only
200 T-shirts. :)
An important part of training is actually using your brain. You need
to look at the types of things that you are encountering with a stern
eye.
Ashida Kim is a white guy with no historical claims. His actual names
is Chris Roworth, although he is usually known as Chris Hunter. (He's
so ninja-like with his multiple identities). He's written a couple of
books to bilk money out of teenagers. He runs a "secret society that
traces itself to the actual ninja". Blah, blah, blah. Use your brain.
Hatsumi-sensei is grandmaster of nine ancient ryuha. He has knighthood
from Germany, Honorary Doctorate degrees in Philosophy and Human
Sciences, numerous honorary citizenships from cities around the world,
accolades from the FBI, CIA, NSA, SAS and the Texas Rangers. He's got
letters from Presidents and Prime Ministers including Reagan, Bush,
Clinton, Thatcher, etc. lining his walls. He was awarded the Japan
Culture Promoting Association's Grand Prize (the highest honor given
for cultural exchange in Japan and was presented by a member of the
Imperial Household) in 1999. He was awarded the World Culture Grand
Prize in 2000, and in 2001 became the first martial artist to receive
an Apostolic Blessing from the Pope! Those are pretty good
credentials. Oh, and by the way, he's Japanese. Which makes sense if
one is going to be the grandmaster of a Japanese art! LOL!
Please use your brain.
-ben
UrbanNinjaFool
laugh at dedicated martial arts soke is pushing 70 i doubt if he was in it for
the money he'd still be putting up with mad gajin
Paul Bik
my sincere apology for offending you. I didn't realise that it would
upset you so much although maybe I should have.
A lot of you responded as though I had said Dr Hatsumi was a fake or
that his martial arts are no good. That's not what I meant. I never
doubted his skill or lineage, but I did have some questions about the
way things are run. That's what they were ... questions. Not
statements. Even the topic of my post had a question mark at the end.
Maybe they were too strong.
Some of you - particularly the Ozzies - came up with some nice names
for me and even threatened violence. Is that really how your Soke
teaches you to behave?
We may not do the same style of Ninjutsu, but I am not looking for
feuds and I really do apologise for offending you.
By the way, the fact that Ashida Kim is white doesn't mean he is no
good. Stephen Hayes, Bud Malmstrom,Richard van Donk are not Japanese
either.
Paul
bencole
archives. Sorry for the double post. And doubly sorry to Chris
Roworth!
-ben
---
In a recent post, I unfortunately misidentified a highly respected
Bujinkan practitioner as Ashida Kim! I feel like an absolute boob, but
things like this happen when the mind is flying and the fingers are
flying faster. Luckily some friends with fast eyes caught the mistake
and flooded me with "Hey stupid!" emails. :)
Ashida Kim, commonly known as Chris Hunter, is also known by the name
Redford Davies. He is a con-man and a fraud, regardless of how many
books he has published on Ninjutsu. One hint: He's a forty-year-old
white guy with a Korean name who claims mastery of an ancient Japanese
art. LOL!
Chris Roworth, on the other hand, is an 11th dan Bujinkan practitioner
from the UK in good standing with the Bujinkan and Soke. He is one of
three individuals licensed by Hatsumi-sensei in Hichi Buko Goshin
Jutsu Ryu. The reason why he was on the top of my head when writing
that email was that he helped me verify some information for my book
right before its publication in August. The name lingered and I messed
up.
I cannot apologize enough for this mental flatulence. I grovel at your
feet, a ninny.
-ben
Richard Jones
> from the UK in good standing with the Bujinkan and Soke. He is one of
> three individuals licensed by Hatsumi-sensei in Hichi Buko Goshin
> Jutsu Ryu. The reason why he was on the top of my head when writing
> that email was that he helped me verify some information for my book
> right before its publication in August. The name lingered and I messed
> up.
>
> I cannot apologize enough for this mental flatulence. I grovel at your
> feet, a ninny.
>
We'll let you off, only 'cos the book is a good read mind you :-)
Critch
(one of Chris' earliest students)
Paul Bik
You used to be able to get those - and higher titles - if you put
enough people into gas chambers in concentration camps. Ask Doron
Novon and Moti Nativ what they think of German knighthoods.
bcol...@hotmail.com (bencole) wrote in message
UrbanNinjaFool
Dennis Mahon
> good. Stephen Hayes, Bud Malmstrom,Richard van Donk are not Japanese
> either.
>
> Paul
http://yonega.com/yonega/xtrapages/ashida_html
I think the above page will explain why Ashida Kim/Christopher
Hunter gets treated the way he does.
Martin
Ashida Kim - the world's first pornographic "Ninja"!?
You learn something new everyday.
Martin
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:24:19 +1030, Dennis Mahon wrote
(in message <e3ce61cc.01111...@posting.google.com>):
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