A Brief Overview of Kamae

[David Dow]

Watcher009 wrote in message
>The model that most people follow when they practice kamae is the Godai
model
> that was taught by Stephen K. Hayes.

Sorry but the main model is the Kihon happo and the sanshin/gogyonokamae.
SKH invented the five element method and the godai. not good not bad just
his own thing.
>Seigan no Kamae: This is what most people call "ichimonji no kamae."
However,
> that name is not correct. The intention of seigan no kamae is, "With my
eyes
> and my hand I will control you."
Actually the differences are ichimonji is a straight out line(like the kanji
for one one, ichi) and seigan is pointing at the opponent's eyes, thus sigan
>Hira Ichimonji no Kamae: Most people call this hira no kamae, however,
this
> name is also incorrect. The intention of hira ichimonji no kamae is, "I
don't
> want to fight, but if you attack, I'll wrap you up, or completely enclose
> you."
hira no kamae is from the Japanese hira/taira meaning flat, thus the for
of the kamae.
also in the Ten chi jin(Bujinkan instructor's manual) it is the basic kamae
that is used to get into all other kamae.
>
>Hoko no Kamae: Most people perform hoko no kamae incorrectly. The palms
of
> the hands should be angled inward towards yourself so as to hide shuko if
you
> were wearing them. The intention of this kamae is two-fold. "Anything
that
> comes inside my arms, I will crush. Anything that comes from outside my
arms,
> I will blast away."
>
>Bobi no Kamae: Most people in the Bujinkan do not know this kamae. (only
in the States, remember the internet is international) The
> intention of bobi no kamae is, "Bring it on!"
>
>Be careful on all this intention stuff. ichimonji can be aggressive
jumonji can be defensive. Once again SKH made basic concepts for his
students but this does not fare well I advanced training. When posting be
careful of the difference between Bujinkan and SKH's quest/toshindo teaching
methods, as they are very different. There are many people out there who do
not know there is a difference, but there is.
Also the kamae not only differ from Ryu-ha to Ryu-ha but Shihan to Shihan.
Nagato sensei's ichimonji is slightly foreword(as all his kamae are) and
the arm more pointed to the ground, classical/basic no, but effective and a
legitimate variation.

David Dow
Bujinkan Anko Dojo
http://www/geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/4193
Kikeba Ii (Whatever Works)---Toshiro Nagato

[Watcher009]

The model that most people follow when they practice kamae is the Godai model

that was taught by Stephen K. Hayes. This model is a complete system of
channeling feelings and intention. However, the godai is a concept that is
native to the practice of mikkyo. When applied properly, the model works for
our taijutsu training. However, the concepts of "earth", "water", "fire" and
"wind" kamae is not 100% historically correct.

The densho of each ryu-ha explain each kamae from the standpoint of the
physical positioning of the body, as well as the mental image or intention
channeled by the kamae.

Initially, it must be understood that ukemi, or the way we receive an attack,
is the basis of our training, and ukemi begins and ends in kamae.

In addition, we must understand that kamae does not dictate our movement. The
godai model taught by Hayes assigns an element to each kamae, and a
characteristic way of movement for each element. This is not necessarily
correct. Kamae is a reflection of your awareness. Movement is a reflection of
your needs. Sometimes, people forget to pay attention to their needs because
they believe that their kamae dictates a particular type of movement. This is
wrong. We must be able to move freely in any direction from any kamae at any
time.

As far as each ryu-ha is concerned, each one has a particular "strategy" behind
their movement, but they nonetheless stress freedom of movement. More on this
later...

Instead of concentrating on the "element" of a kamae, try these intentions
instead. These are not my fabrication, but come directly from the densho of
the ryu-ha concerned.

Koto-ryu

Seigan no Kamae: This is what most people call "ichimonji no kamae." However,
that name is not correct. The intention of seigan no kamae is, "With my eyes
and my hand I will control you."

Hira Ichimonji no Kamae: Most people call this hira no kamae, however, this

name is also incorrect. The intention of hira ichimonji no kamae is, "I don't
want to fight, but if you attack, I'll wrap you up, or completely enclose
you."

Hoko no Kamae: Most people perform hoko no kamae incorrectly. The palms of

the hands should be angled inward towards yourself so as to hide shuko if you
were wearing them. The intention of this kamae is two-fold. "Anything that
comes inside my arms, I will crush. Anything that comes from outside my arms,
I will blast away."

Bobi no Kamae: Most people in the Bujinkan do not know this kamae. The

intention of bobi no kamae is, "Bring it on!"

Gyokko-ryu

Ichimonji no Kamae: This is not the "ichimonji no kamae" most people practice.
That is really seigan no kamae, from Koto-ryu. The intention of ichimonji no
kamae is, "I'm going to tear your heart out."

Jumonji no Kamae: Most people keep their hands too low. Jumonji no kamae is
made with the arms crossed at the level of the heart, and the fists, in
boshiken, at the level of the shoulders. The arms are kept in closely. The
intention of jumonji no kamae is, "I am so light and free that I can even
knock arrows out of the sky."

Hicho no Kamae: Hicho no kamae is performed by making ichimonji no kamae
correctly and then lifting your lead leg and placing it on the calf of your
rear leg. You are not standing on one leg, you are standing on two legs. One
leg is standing on the floor and the other leg is standing on your base leg.
You always know if ichimonji no kamae is correct by lifting your front leg.
If you must shift your weight to do this, your legs are too far apart. The
intention of hicho no kamae is the feeling of a bird being compressed by a
snake, conserving your energy, until finally exploding outward, tearing the
snake apart completely.

Any other kamae that you practice are not included in "kihon." I do not have
information on the intention of any other taijutsu kamae at this time. I will
post more information later on each kamae separately. I will also do this for
all bo, jo and hanbo kamae in the near future.

It is important to train with these thoughts in mind. I hope this helps.

Mac

[R&R Plastics]

Watcher009 wrote:
>
> The model that most people follow when they practice kamae is the Godai model
> that was taught by Stephen K. Hayes. This model is a complete system of
> channeling feelings and intention. However, the godai is a concept that is
> native to the practice of mikkyo. When applied properly, the model works for
> our taijutsu training. However, the concepts of "earth", "water", "fire" and
> "wind" kamae is not 100% historically correct.
>
> The densho of each ryu-ha explain each kamae from the standpoint of the
> physical positioning of the body, as well as the mental image or intention
> channeled by the kamae.
>
> Initially, it must be understood that ukemi, or the way we receive an attack,
> is the basis of our training, and ukemi begins and ends in kamae.
>
> In addition, we must understand that kamae does not dictate our movement. The
> godai model taught by Hayes assigns an element to each kamae, and a
> characteristic way of movement for each element. This is not necessarily
> correct. Kamae is a reflection of your awareness. Movement is a reflection of
> your needs. Sometimes, people forget to pay attention to their needs because
> they believe that their kamae dictates a particular type of movement. This is
> wrong. We must be able to move freely in any direction from any kamae at any
> time.
>

true

> As far as each ryu-ha is concerned, each one has a particular "strategy" behind
> their movement, but they nonetheless stress freedom of movement. More on this
> later...
>
> Instead of concentrating on the "element" of a kamae, try these intentions
> instead. These are not my fabrication, but come directly from the densho of
> the ryu-ha concerned.
>
> Koto-ryu
>
> Seigan no Kamae: This is what most people call "ichimonji no kamae." However,
> that name is not correct. The intention of seigan no kamae is, "With my eyes
> and my hand I will control you."
>
> Hira Ichimonji no Kamae: Most people call this hira no kamae, however, this
> name is also incorrect. The intention of hira ichimonji no kamae is, "I don't
> want to fight, but if you attack, I'll wrap you up, or completely enclose
> you."
>
> Hoko no Kamae: Most people perform hoko no kamae incorrectly. The palms of
> the hands should be angled inward towards yourself so as to hide shuko if you
> were wearing them. The intention of this kamae is two-fold. "Anything that
> comes inside my arms, I will crush. Anything that comes from outside my arms,
> I will blast away."
>

Actually, the scroll shows palms out quite clearly. I have seen the
palms in variation, but this reflects more of a Togakure influence.
Shuko are not emphasized (possibly not even used) in koto ryu. Holding
the hands at the shoulder is also a valid variation.

> Bobi no Kamae: Most people in the Bujinkan do not know this kamae. The
> intention of bobi no kamae is, "Bring it on!"
>

The purpose of bobi no kamae (as the name suggests) is to control
weapons in your obi. The hand at the hip controls the saya or other
gear.

> Gyokko-ryu
>
> Ichimonji no Kamae: This is not the "ichimonji no kamae" most people practice.
> That is really seigan no kamae, from Koto-ryu. The intention of ichimonji no
> kamae is, "I'm going to tear your heart out."
>
> Jumonji no Kamae: Most people keep their hands too low. Jumonji no kamae is
> made with the arms crossed at the level of the heart, and the fists, in
> boshiken, at the level of the shoulders. The arms are kept in closely. The
> intention of jumonji no kamae is, "I am so light and free that I can even
> knock arrows out of the sky."
>
> Hicho no Kamae: Hicho no kamae is performed by making ichimonji no kamae
> correctly and then lifting your lead leg and placing it on the calf of your
> rear leg. You are not standing on one leg, you are standing on two legs. One
> leg is standing on the floor and the other leg is standing on your base leg.
> You always know if ichimonji no kamae is correct by lifting your front leg.
> If you must shift your weight to do this, your legs are too far apart. The
> intention of hicho no kamae is the feeling of a bird being compressed by a
> snake, conserving your energy, until finally exploding outward, tearing the
> snake apart completely.
>

The weight in ichimonji no kamae is pretty much evenly distributed over
both feet. The legs should only be about shoulder width (for the basic)
apart. In any event, you can't lift weight off your front leg without
shifting back. Just be careful not to throw yourself over.

Aric

[John Lindsey]

On 14 Nov 1997 05:17:50 GMT, watch...@aol.com (Watcher009) wrote:

>The model that most people follow when they practice kamae is the Godai model
> that was taught by Stephen K. Hayes.

I would say that it is rather a minority of those associated with him.

>The densho of each ryu-ha explain each kamae from the standpoint of the
> physical positioning of the body, as well as the mental image or intention
> channeled by the kamae.

First point, not all of the ryu have densho, some only makimono.
Those with just makimono list next to nothing in regards to the kamae.
Thats because it is kuden. I think you are getting a bit too carried
away with mental imagery. What is important in the kamae is having a
strong ki. That is why the densho and makimono contain very limited
details.

Oh and btw, did you know that some have no densho/makimono?

What you really need to develop for kamae/taijutsu is mushin,
fudoshin, and zanshin. These "san shin" are really the key.

>Instead of concentrating on the "element" of a kamae, try these intentions
> instead. These are not my fabrication, but come directly from the densho of
> the ryu-ha concerned.

I would like to know your sources for these. Having seen and had
translated various parts of the densho, I never saw anything like
this. Not saying they aren't, but most of these sound a bit like
something that Mr. Hayes might have come up with to convey his
interpretation. While phrases like: "If you attack, I am going to rip
the snake out of your anus" sounds kool, words pale in comparison to
actual training. Most of this is also translated heart to heart
between a teacher and student through the training. That is why the
scrolls didn't need to have much detail.

Also, your center of gravity should stay in your hara. If it goes up
into your chest like some people do in jumonji et al, it is incorrect.
Thats not something I made up, it was something your Soke once told me
many years ago.

What you haven't touched on is the relationship of the attacker's ki
and the defender's ki. This is the true meaning of kamae. Before
physical contact, there is the contact of the spirit/ki.

John Lindsey
Genbukan Ganseki Dojo
Houston, TX

ICQ: 1747878

Webmaster, Genbukan Dojo website
http://www.neosoft.com/~jlindsey

[Watcher009]

I have read through the preceeding posts regarding my initial post. I must
first apologize for not differentiating beween densho and makimono. Some
people like a bibliography.

Next, a majority of this material came directly from Manaka-sensei.
Manaka-sensei is known for his attention to detail. If you feel that what I
am posting is incorrect, take it up with Manaka. I'm sure he will be more
than happy to show you where your errors are.

Next, the interpretation of the difference between ichimonji no kamae and
seigan no kamae posted by David Dow is not correct. Gyokko-ryu ichimonji no
kamae and Koto-ryu seigan look nothing alike.

David Dow is correct when he says that our taijutsu is based from the kihon
happo and the sanshin/gogyo no kata. However, your kamae, along with your
intentions must first be correct. Then the movements of these methods will be
of benefit.

By the way, thank you for the meaning of bobi no kamae. I appreciate your
help.

More later....

Mac