Wayne Roy??

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
Why do they want Wayne Roy out of the Bujinkan???
All I could find about him was at the link below???


Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:41:31 -0500, TENCHI <ten...@interlog.com>

gees a reply to that could be a books worth :) I'll give you some
major points, though it is still long.

- runs his school very much like a cult. in the eraly days some of his
senior students used to call it the 4th Reich, those of us outside the
school have obviously called it worse.
- he then started kicking out his dan ranks for "insubordination" and
training in other styles - no big deal his dojo right, but he told
them that they were also kicked out of the Bujinkan. His cult methods
ensured that most of these people believed him and some even spent
year in therapy.
- told people that without a personal letter from him you could not
train in Japan - same as Hayes here.
- forced his seniors to sign franchise agreements stating that if they
ever left the school that they would never teach martial arts again.
kicked out anybody who did not sign
- ran media campaigns against other Bujinkan instructors - including
paid for adverts in martial arts magazines stating that other specific
instructors were not qualified or recognised by the Bujinkan. one
particular instructor tried to encourage people to go to Japan for
training and offered to help them do so in a martial arts magazine and
was subjected to copious amounts of hate mail and also public attack
in the same magazine. Roy then started attacking the Bujinkan in
general when complaining about some twin 19 yearolds in England that
had passed their godan tests - regardless of the fact that they had
trained for over 10 years with Peter King - I have met one of these
boys and his skill is well above the average godan as is normal for
anybody out of Peter's dojo.
- tried to stop the Adelaide Taikai from happening in 1992 (1st Aussie
- ordered 63 dan ranks before this taikai many being sequences for the
same people - Hatsumi told me that it was obvious therefore that he
had no intention of getting legitimate ranks until he heard of the
Taikai. later Roy's rank fees were told to Hatsumi and myself by some
of his ex-students and you can imagine Hatsumi's reaction to finding
out that 3rd dans were $1000
- snubbed Hatsumi's Shidoshi-kai meeting at said taikai - was seen
entering a restaurant nearby with some friends instead.
- accused me of buying my rank at the time by running the taikai and
then mailed Hatsumi with a request for a higher rank for himself
- upon inviting Charles Daniels and Ed Martin to Australia in early
1993 he told his students to go to that rather than the planned Taikai
in the same year (the last taikai here) - Both Charles and Ed were
unable to convince Roy's students otherwise and if you want more
details on this contact Ed.
- boycotted the 1993 Taikai and threatened his students that if they
went he would remove them from his dojo, they were so cult programmed
that even though he has several dojo's in Sydney only two students of
his turned up and they tried to pass themselves off as kung-fu
- tried to sue me for libel when I made it known before the taikai
that I knew what his intentions were and in the process nearly had his
lawyer dismissed from practice and the case was used as lecture
material by one Australian university for some time.
- has consistently insulted Hatsumi and the Japanese Shihan
- has modified (simplified and mutilated) the Bujinkan arts to the
point where they are only barely recogniseable - Hatsumi is refusing
to recognise the ranks he gives
- has not trained in Japan since 1990 when he turned up for 2 classes
and then took his students on a temple tour of Kyoto etc. heard this
before too eh.
- along with many other Australians that had not paid for their ranks
after 4 years or more he was demoted down to his last paid for rank.
- accused me again of buying ranks by running taikai's here. in fact I
tried to refuse my 8th at the Sydney Taikai but Hatsumi wouldn't allow
me too - anybody that knows me also knows that I was not subtle when
trying to refuse it either.
- since the late eighties Hatsumi has had on student after another of
Roys turning up to Japan - most have had to leave his dojo to do so
and have similar stories to tell. Hatsumi has also been unimpressed by
what these people thought was Bujinkan technique and asked Andrw Young
and Mark O'Brien to tour Australia in 1992 to help fix the standard
here. But what has been most noticeable is the culture of distrust and
aggression towards each other here by Roy people to no-Roy people and
ex-Roy people to everybody and it is quite obviously a product of his
cult teachings and methods. Sure it happens all over the world to an
extent and again I will say that if you want an outsiders view of how
bad it was here ask Ed Martin or Charles Daniels what they gleaned
about it in their 3 weeks here as guests of Roy. Needless to say that
Ed has joined me in voting for Roy's expulsion

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