bujinkan in south wales?
Benson
in the newport area
--
___________________
Yesterday we obeyed Kings and bent our necks
before Emperors. But today we kneel only to truth...
-- -- Kahlil Gibran
from Benson
Tim O'Donnell
at least one dojo in the Newport area. Go over to www.kabuto.nu and find the
dojo listings. Should be on there. Failing that www.winjutsu.com might have
it listed.
Now my Welsh geography is terrible so forgive me if Neath is nowhere near
you, but Merlyn's Neath dojo has a site at
http://www.mahoutsukai.btinternet.co.uk/aboutus.html
Happy hunting,
Tim
"Benson" <dave....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9nfvic$5hi$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
tomato
hey guys, i've been lerking for a while, and decided that it's time for me to
post! in any case, i've checked out the bujinkan web site, both official and
the one @ kabuto.nu, and i have some questions about the art. now, i haven't
read all there is to read, but from what i gather, bujinkan is mostly a
hand-to-hand fighting style, that incorporates a little bit of everything, from
sticks to throwing knives to swords. is this correct? currently, i'm trying to
balance my training between aerobic training and martial arts (just basic
punches and kicks, i haven't been formaly taught martial arts in a while) but
i'm finding that i have too much to do, and not enough time to do it in. so i
was wondering how the praticioners of bujinkan train, like how long and how many
days a week, and also to get some general information about the art in
general...
--
__
/.)\ "Simplicity of character is the
\(./ natural result of profound thought"
Scott Neighbours
"Tim O'Donnell" <tim.od...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:oLLm7.4670$fA.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Mark
to the individual. It all depends on how much YOU want to get out of it.
Some clubs will have a session once a week, some twice, some more.
Currently where I train we have two sessions of two hours each a week. But
beyond that I will play with techniques or weapons in the garden (good way
to improve your bo furi) during the week.
The more you put in the more you will get out....
The Bujinkan as far as I know it is a mixture of hand-to-hand,
hand-to-weapon and weapon-to-weapon. The main focus is usually on the
unarmed with some mutodori. This tends to vary from club to club depending
on how many people own their own training weapons. (where I train we are
fortunate to have access to the univeristies arsenal in the dojo with plenty
of bo, jo, bokken etc).
Weapons are an integral part of our art, but without learinging good
taijutsu they will be more of a hinderance. Learn the
taijutsu/body-movement/techniques/randori/sanshin etc. and then start to use
weapons as an extension these - ie naturally with taijutsu. The worrying
thing is when someone picks up a weapon, they try to use it as such to the
exclusion of anything else - they will forget to use thier bodies and focus
on striking with the weapon, hampering themselves.
The main thing is to have fun and enjoy your training - it is not a
chore....
Ku Kishin
not even a Bujinkan member let alone an instructor who is registered
at Hombu.
While his students seem happy enough to trust him with membership fees
and to be graded by him, there is not one of them who has received a
membership card or certificate from Hombu.
Should anyone have any doubt about this, it's a simple enough thing
for him to produce his own rank certificate and/or his Shidoshi Kai
card to back up his claims. The fact that he is unable to do so
suggests that he is a liar who thinks nothing of parting those who
trust him from their cash.
Merlyn owes people in the Bujinkan in South Wales several hundreds of
pounds (at least) and this can be backed up very easily, so if you are
thinking of having anything to do with him, be wary about parting with
your cash and ask to see certification and memberships.
"Tim O'Donnell" <tim.od...@ntlworld.com> wrote :
Jeff Mueller
seemed like an upstanding fellow.
Also, Shidoshi John Anderson has him listed as a legitimate Shidoshi
on his webpage http://www.btinternet.com/~bujinkan/aboutus.htm ... I
can't picture John listing the guy if it wasn't true.
Sounds as though someone has their gi pants in a bunch over something.
I personally don't listen to people who post anonomously about such
things.
Everyone take care.
Jeffrey Scott Mueller
Shidoshi
Bujinkan Musha no Tomo Dojo
kuki...@excite.co.uk (Ku Kishin) wrote in message news:<81551df2.01091...@posting.google.com>...
John Anderson
Thanks for the vote of confidence with regards to the web-page but I
don't own it - it was actually put together by Steve Greenfield.
Unfortunately, it hasn't been updated for sometime and I didn't
realise that Mark Waters (Merlyn) details were still on it. I'll have
to speak to Steve to get them removed.
As to Merlyn being an upstanding individual, while I don't really want
to wash any dirty linen in public, I've been brought into this thread
as a character witness in his defence and so think that I should
perhaps be open about what I know about him.
I personally do not know whether Merlyn is a current Bujinkan member
or not. I can say that he passed the Godan test at the UK Tai Kai in
August 1999 however, I also know that he hadn't registered his grade
or joined the Shidoshi Kai when he last trained with me (about April
2000), I also think that it is unlikely that he was a shidoshi kai
member as late as last October as he turned up at my Dojo one night
not to train, but to ask if I would help him by getting some rank
certificates for his students. (As a side note with regards to Merlyn
and rank certificates, he was given his Yon Dan in November 1998 and
as I was aware that at the time he had some financial difficulties, I
paid for his certificate myself on the understanding that he would pay
me back over a period of time in small installments as and when he
could. Three years later, I still haven't received a penny from him).
I am personally owed a couple of hundred quid by Merlyn and I also
know that he owes varying amounts of money to several other people who
he used to train with. Steve Greenfield was recently contacted by a
student of Merlyn's who has trained with him for four years and has
run a small training group for him for about 2 years. This student has
severed his ties with Merlyn because he was unhappy about several
things, one of which is the fact that he has not received the Bujinkan
membership cards which he paid Merlyn for earlier this year, nor has
he or any member of his group received any rank certificates for the
past two years, despite the fact that Merlyn has graded them.
As I've said, I don't know Merlyn's current status in the Bujinkan but
from what I know of him, I doubt if he is actually a shidoshi kai
member. if he is, i suppose that he could easily prove it by scanning
his card and showing it to someone like Jeff. What I do know for sure
about him is that he does owe a few people who once trusted him a fair
bit of money and I would advise anyone to be wary of him.
If anyone has any questions about anything I've posted here, please
feel free to email me.
Jay Bell
Hi John,
I was just curious as to how the Jinenkan is working out for you.
Wait...a strange thought just came to mind. Member of the Bujinkan
*and* the Jinenkan? If memory serves, I don't remember that being
allowed..
How dare you attempt to cause problems for someone on a public board
when you yourself are FAR from fault. You should be ashamed of
yourself.
Regards,
Jay
John Anderson
First off, I have not set out to try and cause anyone any problems
however, when my name is cited in support of someone's good character
and I know for a fact that the person in question is a rip-off
merchant who has conned and is conning as many people as possible out
of their hard earned cash, then I am going to do my utmost to make
sure that there is no doubt of what I actually feel and know about
them.
Now onto your question about how the Jinenkan is working out for me.
Actually, it's working out just fine which is why I will not be
renewing my Bujinkan membership next year as I've realised after a lot
of consideration that the Jinenkan is the organisation which I feel is
best for me. As I've said, the process by which I've come to this
decision has been a long-drawn out one and it has involved a
transitionary period. Are you seriously suggesting that because of
this I'm in someway on a par with someone effectively stealing money?
As an aside to the issue of my affiliation, I assume that this
information was fed to you by Merlyn in an attempt at damage
limitation by blackening my name. If I'm correct in this assumption, I
wonder if he has also told you that he also joined the Jinenkan and
even travelled to the States to train at a seminar given by Manaka
Sensei last year? In fact, one of the times when he has ripped a
friend off was during this trip as he still hasn't settled his hotel
bill!
You seem to suggest that I should be ashamed of myself for posting
this stuff about Merlyn but I'm not because a) I didn't ask to be
brought into this, and b) Everything I've posted about him is actually
true. I understand that Merlyn is someone who you've befriended over
the net and so even though you've never met him you want to stand up
for him. Perhaps the best way you can do this is to prove me wrong, so
why don't you ask him to try and refute just one thing that I've
written about him?
Be careful who you trust,
John
John Anderson
received a brief note and a cheque through the mail from Merlyn this
morning. I don't know yet if he is paying back all the people he owes
money to or if it's just me.
I still stand by everything I've said about him and although there are
plenty of things relating to him that I haven't even touched upon,
this matter is, as far as I am concerned, now closed and I am not
going to post anything else about him unless he or someone allied to
him decides to further the situation or attack me.
I personally am saddened and a very embarrassed that I've resorted to
publicly slagging off someone who I once considered a close friend
however, I'm more saddened by the fact that this is what it took for
someone who I once trusted to honour a debt.
Jeff Mueller
John, if this is true and you are a member of the Jinenkan then I
would ask you as a fellow Shidoshi to please sumbit your letter of
resignation to Hatsumi Sensei promptly and discontinue the use of the
Bujinkan name now rather than waiting until it is time to renew your
membership.
I am glad you have found what you are looking for in training... but
it is improper to play both sides of the fence. So please deal with
this promptly.
As far as Merlyn is concerned, if he wants to send me a pic of his
Shidoshi-kai membership I will take a look at it. As far as the money
issues, you seem to be acting as the spokesperson for a lot of people
here, and it comes off a little odd if you ask me.
Jeffrey S. Mueller
Shidoshi
Bujinkan Musha no Tomo DOjo
Jay Bell
going to post anything else about him unless he or someone allied to
him decides to further the situation or attack me."
John,
I think there's been some confusion here. The members of the Bujinkan
have enough problems to deal with without having to put up with
in-fighting. Personal issues with people...of course they'll exist.
The issue I had was the fact that it came here, and it looked like
nothing more then trash talking someone, personal issues or not.
Whether people want to admit it or not, we're all in the same
fishbowel. People need to start acting like it.
Jay
kash...@yahoo.co.uk (John Anderson) wrote in message news:<c73bda98.01092...@posting.google.com>...
Eric Weil
To me this kind of stuff reminds me of a certain instructor ratting out
Shiraishi sensei last year.
Nothing better to do with their time but to try and gain a upper hand to
feed their egos and pockets by doing so. They deserve a gold medal "Rat of
the Year" by lowering themselves to this, what a waste of time and energy,
cowards!
my 2 Yen for now, back to staying the fuck out of lame ass politics from a
bunch of ego maniacs!
E
"John Anderson" <kash...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c73bda98.01092...@posting.google.com...
Balcom Fantroy
take it or leave it, so the rats are not only the snitches, but those
who decide to train in the other Kan's and try to keep it on the down
low.
Balcom Fantroy
Bujinkan Henkyo Shinken Dojo
"Eric Weil" <shi...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<1pzr7.43137$z7.10...@news02.optonline.net>...
Eric Weil
thats my business and no one elses.
So in this case if those members wanna cross train its their "private"
business and no one eles.
What is wrong is that in the BJK their are some who think they are doing
justice to the BJK by being the "BJK Gastapo" and end up being rats no
matter how you look at it. They have no respect from me and I only hope bad
things happen to them!
Oh yeah Balcom, no where in the rules does it cite such restrictions so the
good ole grapevine of "he said, she said" doesn't apply and I'm not relying
on some lame suck ass non-nihonjin Godan/Juudan telling me so. If thats the
case, then I'm the Pope cause I heard I was recently appointed, hehehe. If
this does not change, I might go on a BJK drug using witch hunt and see how
many members get booted, LOL ;-)
Not supporting or condeming such training, I just don't care. Worry about
your own training and stay out of BJK politics cause this is the root of all
Evil in the BJK. Tearing another down to make oneself look better, what a
joke! LOSERS!!!!!
Back to worrying about me and only me,
fuck the rest of ya,
E
"Balcom Fantroy" <Nin...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:c512122.01092...@posting.google.com...
Kreth
wrote:
>What is wrong is that in the BJK their are some who think they are doing
>justice to the BJK by being the "BJK Gastapo" and end up being rats no
>matter how you look at it. They have no respect from me and I only hope bad
>things happen to them!
>
Yeah, it's a real shame that there are those who think Bujinkan
members should comply with Hatsumi Sensei's wishes...
>Oh yeah Balcom, no where in the rules does it cite such restrictions so the
>good ole grapevine of "he said, she said" doesn't apply and I'm not relying
>on some lame suck ass non-nihonjin Godan/Juudan telling me so. If thats the
>case, then I'm the Pope cause I heard I was recently appointed, hehehe. If
>this does not change, I might go on a BJK drug using witch hunt and see how
>many members get booted, LOL ;-)
>
Let's just ignore the fact that the last time this came up on Ninpo-L,
one of the gaijin in Japan (Ben Cole, IIRC) asked Sensei about it, and
was told in no uncertain terms that Buj members were not to train in
the Genbukan or Jinenkan.
>Back to worrying about me and only me,
>
>fuck the rest of ya,
>
You probably should worry more about your taijutsu anyway...
Kreth
Mark
benefit from.
Love M :-)
Eric Weil
>
Look who's to talk, you need to worry about your gut, but hey, we all need
work ;-)
And if I'm worrying about myself, that is my taijutsu ya piehole!
love ya big boy, but i hate rats,
E
beastmachinery
> Let's just ignore the fact that the last time this came up on Ninpo-L,
> one of the gaijin in Japan (Ben Cole, IIRC) asked Sensei about it, and
> was told in no uncertain terms that Buj members were not to train in
> the Genbukan or Jinenkan.
>
Why shouldn't we train in Genbukan or Jinenkan?
All parties, please be advised that I am asking the following question as a
new Bujinkan student and I am not looking to get flamed.
Balcom Fantroy
It is just a rule that we should not train in other Ninpo arts outside
the Bujinkan. Its all over the net if you look hard enough Im sure
you can find more depth of the situation. Even though who you train
with is nobody's business, if your going to be in an organization,
respect the rules or just leave. For instance, if your in the
Bujinkan, and your going to Genbukan Tai Kai's, doing Genbukan
training, your breaking the rules and you need to get the hell out of
the Bujinkan.
It is just common respect for Sensei, and if you cannot respect his
wishes then take your own wishes for gaining a working knowledge in
this art elsewhere.
Hope this answers your question
Jay Bell
No worries...
Simply put, Sensei told us not to.
Tim O'Donnell
up the difference on the net ;-)
"Balcom Fantroy" <Nin...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:c512122.01092...@posting.google.com...
dbowley
.As he is the BOSS his wishes are to be RESPECTED. daniel
Balcom Fantroy
"Tim O'Donnell" <tim.od...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<PNus7.4732$Vj1.7...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>...
Wolf
<dbo...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:
> Because there is a man named Masaaki Hatsumi our Soke who has asked us
> no to .As he is the BOSS his wishes are to be RESPECTED. daniel
>>
I apologise for being stupid, but with all due respect...
My own experience with Bujinkan is exactly -nil- (unless you count a very
old book by Stephen Hayes). So as a "heathen" looking in from the
outside, to me this looks like a case of "Because I said so, that's why!"
As an outsider, that alone would turn me off, and turn my path to someone
else's door.
<DISCLAIMER>
Like a previous poster, I'm NOT trying to start a flame-war! I just have
this terrible "Why?" problem! :-)
</DISCLAIMER>
Yes, I understand that Matsaaki Hatsumi is the BOSS. Yes, I understand
that his wishes (and him, for that matter) are to be RESPECTED. And from
what I've read on him, he is neither egotistical, nor arbitrary.
Therefore I am presuming that he must have "some" sort of logic for his
desires.
That's where my "why" problem jumps in - does anyone know what his logic
is?
I would tentatively suggest that while there are certain advantages to
cross-training, whatever disadvantages there are appear to be (in
Hatsumi's mind) greater than the advantages.
So what "are" those disadvantages - besides the obvious "purity of
Bujinkan"?
Respectfully,
Wolf
--
Eliminate the SPAM_SENDERS to reply!
dbowley
some of the shihan may also know the reason behind it. AS for any one else
they would be guessing.My guess is that as both GEN -JIN -Kan are run by EX
Bujinkan students that Soke may feel that they have nothing to teach any one
from the Bujinkan ,so it is better to train with our Shihan or Soke
himself.BUT as i said i am just guessing and may well be wrong. The request
that Bujinkan ppl not train in the other two styles would certainly be for
OUR good (Soke's students) not for any reasons of ego on Soke's part ,this
much is quite clear .Daniel.
Sysop
Bujinkan students and that the material is a more formal version of the
Bujinkan (at all levels except the high ones). Thus there is a syllabus,
ranks, what to do to get to certain ranks and so on. So for beginners there
is essentially zero difference between them all (including Bujinkan).
The problem is that you can't improve on Bujinkan by formalizing it. It's in
the nature of the art - you want fighters who develop their own peculiar
skills to the maximum effectiveness possible, which is best done by an
informal approach. Now this approach is not confined to the Bujinkan - it has
been known for many years that maths teaching and flying training (being two
areas I am familiar with) are best done informally and moreover, assessments
are best done informally otherwise we have the syndrome of students studying
"to pass exams" and not actually developing the skills; the presence of which
the exam was intended to assess. Certainly in my experience, an informal,
continuous assessment has always proved more revealing of a student's
capabilities than any formal exam. Exams are mainly for administration
purposes.
Finally, Hatsumi Sensei provided all the material that the other x-kans use,
learned from Takamatsu and continues to develop and learn more of the art. A
betting (wo)man would surely choose Hatsumi Sensei's material if no
considerations of the approach to the art were involved.
You'll note that my answer doesn't make mention of any personality conflicts
or moral judgements (of e.g. Tanemura founder of Genbukan); they are not
needed.
I have no real understanding as to why Hatsumi Sensei made the request he did
but suspect that the points made here have something to do with it(!)
If any part of my answer is incorrect, I welcome corrections from others,
especially Ed.
Regards
Martin
PS Congrats to Dan on his new ranking!
On Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:49:43 +0930, dbowley wrote
(in message <3BBE91A1...@adelaide.on.net>):
==============================================================
Posted with Hogwasher. Mac first, Mac only:
http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html
==============================================================
Wolf
believe. Let's see if I got it right:
1.) Since the other 'kans are more structured and "formalised", any great
period spent learning them would (most likely) result in either A.)
training merely to pass a test, or B.) thinking "in a rut", which is
quite contrary to the goals of Bujinkan, in the first place;
2.) If knowing "why" is _that_ important to me, save up my money, and go
ask Hatsumi! :-)
(that's the way "I" understand what has been said. if I'm wrong, or
missing the point, someone please feel free to slap me upside the head!)
On another note, I wish to apologise to the group for something I said in
my previous post - or rather, "the way" I said something.
>>> disadvantages - besides the obvious "purity of Bujinkan"?
I realised (too late, of course), that that phrase reeks of a certain
Austrian corporal's "purity of the Aryan race" beliefs, and for that I am
deeply sorry, and humbly ask the group's forgiveness for not stepping
away for a bit, before sending my post.
What was actually meant by that phrase, was that Bujinkan doesn't need to
be developed and expanded by outside influences who's goals may or may
not be in line with it's philosophy. From what I've gathered via the
book that I have (Stephen K. Hayes, _Ninjutsu: The Art of the Invisible
Warrior_, c.1984, ISBN 0-8092-5478-6), it seems that Bujinkan is more
"survival oriented" rather than "style oriented".
One doesn't need style in order to survive - "that" was what I meant by
the phrase "purity of Bujinkan".
Again, I apologise for my lack of clarity.
Respectfully,
Wolf
In article <01HW.B7E541240030D6B40901AD50@news-server>, "Sysop"