fouette world record?
TamBeech
"Chicago" in London now holds the world's record for fouette turns at 38
consecutive turns. This number seems low to me considering that Black Swan
requires 32 and that is only six away from the record? I am more apt to believe
that the Bee got it wrong somehow. Does anyone know?
elfie
to be in awe of when a person does 32. That is hard enough to do.
"TamBeech" <tamb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011107201516...@mb-cg.aol.com...
gksh...@ucdavis.edu
My daughter's dance teacher told them that today (also from the
Bee), and my daughter had the same doubts you did. In the 1997
Guinness, it says that Delia Gray did 166 fouettés in 1991 at The
Playhouse, Harlow, England.
Maybe she did 380--now that would really be something.
Greg Shenaut
TODDFOX0628
64 before a certain act of a performance. Now 380 consecutive fouette's, that
I might doubt.
Just another fine example of facts that journalists report to readers in the
state of California as well as abroad about dance.
PriMoDnc
slippers!
Alex and Andrea Hill
>ballet
>slippers!
Actually, it's one thing to do them, another thing to do them WELL. Does it
count toward the record if someone flaps around over and over again, traveling
all over the stage, or does the dancer need to stay in place, and stay en
pointe?
-Alex
Mallory
long time (consecutively) to do that many fouettes? Maybe they have a
different definition of fouettes than the ballet definition.
<gksh...@ucdavis.edu> wrote in message
news:9scpek$62j$1...@woodrow.ucdavis.edu...
Aden Marne
Lake and the best I have seen is 28 fouettes. Even then, the dancer had lost
control after about the 25th fouette.
I have read (and heard) many people say that 32 fouettes is old hat and that
every ballerina can do them easily, but I am still skeptical. Given the choice,
I would rather see 24 fouettes (or less) done well, than agonize about whether
the ballerina is going hurt herself trying to finish the last 8 turns.
I suppose I am just turning into a ballet wimp, or something, because I find
that I enjoy the virtuoso dances less and less over time. When they are done
well, they are spectacular; but, more often than not, the dancers appear to be
struggling with the steps. I end up spending more time worrying about the
dancer's safety than enjoying the dance.
Aden
PriMoDnc
TODDFOX0628
>Swan
>Lake and the best I have seen is 28 fouettes. Even then, the dancer had lost
>control after about the 25th fouette.
These ballerina's should not be doing Swan Lake Pas de Deux then. Or maybe the
company/companies should not be doing Swan Lake.
There is nothing more impressive, (for me atleast) than to see a ballerina who
can execute 32 fouette's on the music and technically correct in front of a
live audience. If the ballerina can't do that then they should not be on the
stage attempting it. I would put more blame on an Artistic Director for that
though.
I agree that quality is better than quantity but man oh man, when you can view
the quality and the quantity together, it is a site to see.
geoffrey kimbrough
TODDFOX0628 wrote:
> >I will be happy just to see 32 fouettes. I have attended 5 performances of
> >Swan
> >Lake and the best I have seen is 28 fouettes. Even then, the dancer had lost
> >control after about the 25th fouette.
>
> These ballerina's should not be doing Swan Lake Pas de Deux then.
I have to agree with Todd. These days the acceptable standard pretty-much has to
be *more* than 32 -- say 32 with a double every 4th turn for example, or a few
turns in attitude thrown in for good measure. I know that the classroom is not
the stage, but the technical standard these days is such that any student who
expects to make it professionally is working on their fouettes (or men's
equivalent: grand pirouettes and tours en l'air) and is nailing them, at least in
class, just to hope for a corps job.
> I agree that quality is better than quantity but man oh man, when you can view
> the quality and the quantity together, it is a site to see.
I suppose there is a silver lining to the deplorable state of ballet finances
today: Paying companies can hire such awesome dancers that the technical level of
the average touring ballet company is orders of magnitude higher than it was a
generation ago. When I go to a ballet these days, I am sometimes disappointed by
choreography or production values, but I am always blown away by the dancers.
Geoffrey
LWindreich
QUIXOTE this month. Both Kaori Nakamura and Patricia Barker on consecutive
nights tore oft 32 fouettes in the 3rd act pas de deux.
Years ago Mia Slavenska had a small concert company, for which she devised a
vehicle to the Rimsky-K. Flight of the Bumble bee. She did 32 fouettes to the
right, followed by 32 to the left. On the night I saw the program a company
member named Audrey Keane did the job. It was pure circus and in no way
beautiful.
Lara H
> Just another fine example of facts that journalists report to readers in the
> state of California as well as abroad about dance.
I seem to recall reading that the dancer stated that the Guiness People
were there to count the fouettes and that is news even if small potatoes
news. Let's not fault the journalist or the newspaper for printing that
bit of news. People would be complaining if the event _wasn't_ covered at
all.
--
life in the photographer's shoes
http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/BTV00/hartley/index.shtml
Tom
> I will be happy just to see 32 fouettes. I have attended 5 performances of
> Swan Lake and the best I have seen is 28 fouettes. Even then, the dancer
> had lost control after about the 25th fouette.
Actually, I think there's something superficial & a bit sleazy about
sitting there counting the fouettes to see whether she really did 32...
& yet, you know...I do that myself! Every time!
Tom Parsons
--
--
t...@panix.com | A man who does not think for himself
| does not think at all.
http://www.panix.com/~twp | --Oscar Wilde
TODDFOX0628
I beleive the original post had nothing to do with the guiness book of world
records. That post was in reference to someone who had done a bunch of grand
jete's along side a river over in the UK or something.
My reply was in response to an article that someone had read stating that the
world record for fouette turns was 36. Any journalist who publishes that 36
fouettes is the world record has not got their facts straight.
>Let's not fault the journalist or the newspaper for printing that
>bit of news. People would be complaining if the event _wasn't_ covered at
>all.
In my whole life I have never heard anyone complaining that there wasn't
anything printed regarding the world record of fouettes.
>Let's not fault the journalist or the newspaper for printing that
>bit of news.
I will fault any journalist who publishes incorrect information or information
that is not based on any research.
Aden Marne
something. This is probably the reason why they rely so heavily on the
moron-on-the-street interviews to prop up their stories.
Aden
P.S. I'm sure glad that ballet critics and essayist are not journalist ;-)
Lara H
> Journalists never get their facts straight. I think it is a genetic defect or
> something. This is probably the reason why they rely so heavily on the
> moron-on-the-street interviews to prop up their stories.
Never is really a strong statement and I am sure you must have facts to
back this statement up... liking facts as you do. So then, where do YOU
get your news, your daily information - what do you read?
Lara H
toddf...@cs.com (TODDFOX0628) wrote:
> Hello;
> I beleive the original post had nothing to do with the guiness book of world
> records. That post was in reference to someone who had done a bunch of grand
> jete's along side a river over in the UK or something.
> My reply was in response to an article that someone had read stating that the
> world record for fouette turns was 36. Any journalist who publishes that 36
> fouettes is the world record has not got their facts straight.
I haven't been able to find the original story to which you are referring,
but if the journalist is reporting that the Guiness book has documented
the record as 38 then that is not bad journalism nor are the facts not
straight. The reporter is telling the readers what the world record is
according to Guiness.
Here is one link to the story with reference to the Guiness folks:
http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_441757.html
Lara H
http://www.danze.co.uk/dcforum/happening/2242.html
Folks over there seem to think the _real_ record is somewhere around
130-140 - but not a Guiness one. You have to figure that dancers all over
are going to be giving the record books people calls saying they can do
more! Should be fun. :-)
Blazin' Tommy D.
competition why don't your make the subject do each side:)
TamBeech <tamb...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20011107201516...@mb-cg.aol.com>...
Blazin' Tommy D.
Tikki tikki tembo-no sa rembo-chari bari ruchi-pip peri pembo
<calliope+use...@rescomp.stanford.edu> wrote in article
<9se8ku$dth$1...@news.Stanford.EDU>...
> y0 y0 y0! prim...@aol.com (PriMoDnc) got this party started:
> >Whatever the record, were they on pointe? Much more challenging than in
ballet
> >slippers!
>
> Has anyone watched the "Center Stage" with the Director Commentary
> turned on? The fouettes that Amanda Schull does at the end of the
> number are supposedly spliced together from several different
> attempts. I believe it was Nicholas Hytner who said something to the
> effect of: no insult to Amanda Schull, but she couldn't do THAT many
> fouettes in a row.
>
> There were a lot of fouettes, and it wasn't anywhere near 32.
>
> -joanna
>
> --
> o/ ----------------- joa...@salgado.org ------------------- \o
> ___|-- --|___
> \ ----------- http://www.salgado.org/joanna/ ------------- /
> ` '
>
Blazin' Tommy D.
Alex and Andrea Hill <aahil...@cs.com> wrote in article
<20011108193354...@mb-ms.news.cs.com>...
TODDFOX0628
>> number are supposedly spliced together from several different
>> attempts. I believe it was Nicholas Hytner who said something to the
>> effect of: no insult to Amanda Schull, but she couldn't do THAT many
>> fouettes in a row.
That is interesting to know, I am not surprised though, that girl is not much
on technique.
TamBeech
accomplished in 1991. I am still wondering how 38 sets a record of any kind.
Even the 50 she was hoping to do doesn't come close to what has already been
documented by Guiness. I guess we will never know the logic used on this
justification.
TODDFOX0628
second turns or turns in second? The fouette equivalent for male dancers.
I have seen male dancers do as many as 8 consecutive without coming down off
releve but I am sure someone has done more than that.
Aden Marne
or
>> something. This is probably the reason why they rely so heavily on the
>> moron-on-the-street interviews to prop up their stories.
>
>Never is really a strong statement and I am sure you must have facts to
>back this statement up... liking facts as you do. So then, where do YOU
>get your news, your daily information - what do you read?
>
unreliable as the journalists. I doubt this would help my argument :-)
In answer to your question, I read a variety of newspapers (i.e. whatever is
available in the cafteria at work). I also listen to CNN at work (TVs are
everywhere) and a variety of news stations at home. Sadly I cannot recommend
any of them.
For national news, I find that I gravitate toward the International channel and
other ethnic channels, the foreign news organizations lack the circus
atmosphere that our news organization have. Unfortunately I haven't had an
opportunity to read any foreign newspapers for several years.
Given the cosmopolitan audience on this bulletin board, I should mention that I
am not multilingual, so my forays into the foreign press has been limited to
shows with English translations/subtitles and to newspapers published for
British expatriates around of the world.
Aden
Lara H
(TamBeech) wrote:
And that's the best answer I have read yet!
Lara H
aden...@aol.com (Aden Marne) wrote:
> >> Journalists never get their facts straight. I think it is a genetic defect
> or
> >> something. This is probably the reason why they rely so heavily on the
> >> moron-on-the-street interviews to prop up their stories.
> >
> >Never is really a strong statement and I am sure you must have facts to
> >back this statement up... liking facts as you do. So then, where do YOU
> >get your news, your daily information - what do you read?
> >
> I cannot offer you any facts. If I tried, I would prove myself to be as
> unreliable as the journalists. I doubt this would help my argument :-)
Nope, and neither does what you just said.
My point being that if you can't substantiate your sentence" Journalists
never get their facts straight" then you have less validity in what you
say than most journalists since they tend to start with some sort of
researched or quoted facts.
>
> In answer to your question, I read a variety of newspapers (i.e. whatever is
> available in the cafteria at work). I also listen to CNN at work (TVs are
> everywhere) and a variety of news stations at home. Sadly I cannot recommend
> any of them.
> For national news, I find that I gravitate toward the International
channel and
> other ethnic channels, the foreign news organizations lack the circus
> atmosphere that our news organization have.
Your statements are so broad, you paint ALL journalists with the same
brush not taking into account the broad variety of newspapers, magazines
etc that are published.
I understand it is easy to dump on journalists - easy target ã but I
wonder where your information comes from about their reliability - whether
from first hand information and experience or are you just reciting what
you see portrayed on television shows or in film- which bears no
relationship to what actual journlists do and act and feel.
And if you feel that their facts are NEVER straight, then why bother at
all with the news since you don't believe what they are saying anyway.
Since this has veered so far off course from ballet, if you wish to
continue the discussion, you may email me.
lara
TODDFOX0628
>never get their facts straight" then you have less validity in what you
>say than most journalists since they tend to start with some sort of
>researched or quoted facts.
Darling, there is no way that the journalist who wrote the article in question
based the information of 38 fouette turns as being a world record on a
researched or quoted fact. If they did, than they don't know much about
research in the field of dance and shouldn't be reporting on it.
>Since this has veered so far off course from ballet, if you wish to
>continue the discussion, you may email me.
This thread has everything to do with this discussion forum. If a journalist
publishes something in a paper or magazine about dance that is so obviously
incorrect, we, in an open forum (aab), have every right to dispute it or
inquire as to its validity. This forum brings many different views and opinions
on topics from many different people. We also have every right to argue over
points we think are valid stemming from a thread that is posted here. An act
you yourself have engaged in a few times over the past few days. If you do not
want to read anymore about this topic then don't open the thread subject
anymore.
Victoria
course that applies to mostly battements and developpes but it still has to do
with quality over quantity.
Dedicated Ballet Dancer
I'm a SPRITE! I have a lovely aqua and purple tutu with Swarovski crystals on it!
YAY!
Aden Marne
>aden...@aol.com (Aden Marne) wrote:
>
>>>> Journalists never get their facts straight. I think it is a genetic defect
or
>>>> something. This is probably the reason why they rely so heavily on the
>>>> moron-on-the-street interviews to prop up their stories.
>>>
>>>Never is really a strong statement and I am sure you must have facts to
>>>back this statement up... liking facts as you do. So then, where do YOU
>>>get your news, your daily information - what do you read?
>>>
>> I cannot offer you any facts. If I tried, I would prove myself to be as
>> unreliable as the journalists. I doubt this would help my argument :-)
>
>Nope, and neither does what you just said.
>
>My point being that if you can't substantiate your sentence" Journalists
>never get their facts straight" then you have less validity in what you
>say than most journalists since they tend to start with some sort of
>researched or quoted facts.
I am surprised that you are pursuing this sideline discussion given the obvious
(or so I thought) absurdity of my original statement. I apologies for the
apparent
subtlety of my response, clearly my attempt at humor failed miserably.
I made no attempt to substantiate my statement because it is not possible to do
so. Any statement that contains an absolute, like "never", is nearly impossible
to prove. In this case, it is very easy to disprove. All one has to do is
provide
an example of one journalist getting his/her facts straight. I am reasonably
confident
that such an example can be found in the sports section of any newspaper (if no
where else).
Aden
Lara H
toddf...@cs.com (TODDFOX0628) wrote:
> >My point being that if you can't substantiate your sentence" Journalists
> >never get their facts straight" then you have less validity in what you
> >say than most journalists since they tend to start with some sort of
> >researched or quoted facts.
>
> Darling, there is no way that the journalist who wrote the article in question
> based the information of 38 fouette turns as being a world record on a
> researched or quoted fact. If they did, than they don't know much about
> research in the field of dance and shouldn't be reporting on it.
Unless of course, they were assigned to cover this rather dubious event
because the Guiness people were there and told the journalist that it was
a world record. The reporter is simply "reporting" what the Guiness people
stated...which is what appears to have happened in that link I submitted
before. And since you weren't there then there is NO way you know why the
reporter stated the facts as he/she did.
If a reporter is assigned a story - like breaking a record of something
and who ever is in charge of the "counting" says XXXX is a fact in our
record books, the reporter has to report WHAT that someone said. Makes
sense? That's what reporting is. Not making up stories or facts or numbers
but reporting what is happening. And yes, a story like this would not be
huge breaking news but some small piece of human interest that a low-rung
reporter would have been sent to cover - prolly not one terribly familiar
with dance...but that is simply conjecture on my part.
>
> >Since this has veered so far off course from ballet, if you wish to
> >continue the discussion, you may email me.
>
> This thread has everything to do with this discussion forum. If a journalist
> publishes something in a paper or magazine about dance that is so obviously
> incorrect, we, in an open forum (aab), have every right to dispute it or
> inquire as to its validity. This forum brings many different views and
opinions
> on topics from many different people. We also have every right to argue over
> points we think are valid stemming from a thread that is posted here. An act
> you yourself have engaged in a few times over the past few days. If you do not
> want to read anymore about this topic then don't open the thread subject
> anymore.
Oh no, I am sorry, I was trying to not offend those who wouldn't want to
read a discussion about the ethics of journalism - which is NOT a
contradiction in terms....darling.
Steve Keeley
>contradiction in terms
I've been lurking for quite a while, but this was a perfect opportunity to use
one of my favorite quotes, a line from Ben Hecht's screenplay for "Nothing
Sacred":
"I'll tell you briefly what I think about newspapermen: the hand of God,
reaching down into the mire, couldn't elevate one of them to the depths of
degradation."
~Steve
TODDFOX0628
Tom
> I've been lurking for quite a while, but this was a perfect opportunity to
> use one of my favorite quotes, a line from Ben Hecht's screenplay for
> "Nothing Sacred":
> "I'll tell you briefly what I think about newspapermen: the hand of God,
> reaching down into the mire, couldn't elevate one of them to the depths of
> degradation."
Good to hear from you again, Steve. Where've you been hiding?
As for journalism, I personally prefer this from Thomas Jefferson:
"Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without
newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a
moment to prefer the latter."
Jefferson (& yours truly, for that matter!) had plenty of harsh words for
journalists, but Jefferson's should always be read in the light of this
statement.
Steve Keeley
>Good to hear from you again, Steve. Where've you been hiding?
>
I'm still out here in San Diego, going to the ballet whenever I can. I read
a.a.b. every day but I don't have as much to say as I used to. It seems like
most of the crowd who made up the core of posts back in those days have also
faded away. I don't see much here by Leigh, Lobelia, Amy, Nanatchka, Suzi,
Sandi, Bek, Kieth, Jeff, et. al. anymore. I do miss them, and hope they're
all well.
~Steve
When responding by e-mail, please remove "xspam"
Jooss
>Any statement that contains an absolute, like "never", is nearly impossible
>
>to prove. In this case, it is very easy to disprove. All one has to do is
>provide
>an example of one journalist getting his/her facts straight. I am reasonably
>confident
>that such an example can be found in the sports section of any newspaper (if
>no
>
>where else).
>
>Aden
>
>
>
>
Any newspaper worth the paper it's printed on requires "for the record"
confirmation of facts by three different sources...maybe it's the publication
not the journalist's problem to up readership with sensationalism to sell more
ads. Jooss
Jo...@aol.com
Floriaan Philips von Nueman
TV-Journal - France 2 - "record du monde" -
De tours fouettés sur place (de trajet ?, com-
me dit l'autre: pas de commentaire!) 23-38:
http://home.tip.nl/users/r.nueman/tfslpwrcd.rm
Supplément de programme;
Tour de force, Guillem:
http://home.tip.nl/users/r.nueman/tfslpsg.rm
En Amérique, inconnu:
http://home.tip.nl/users/r.nueman/swlamt.rm
Commandé par ordinateur:
http://home.tip.nl/users/r.nueman/tfslpdg.rm
Au revoir, Floriaan Philips von Nueman
Amsterdam
Pays Bas
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