Balanchine/Stravinsky by the Paris Opera Ballet, Dec 16 1996
Estelle Souche
After quite a lot of problems, I finally managed to see the
Balanchine/Stravinsky program of the Paris Opera Ballet last
monday evening.
It included "Apollo", "Agon", "Capriccio" and "Violin Concerto"
(restaged by Bart Cook and Patricia Neary).
"Apollo" had been premiered in Paris at the Theatre Sarah Bernhardt
(now the Theatre de la Ville, I think) in 1928, as "Apollon
musagete" (Apollo conductor of the muse- I don't think I
ever saw the word "musagete" used with anoybody else
than Apollo...) with Serge Lifar as Apollo and Alice Nikitina
as Terpsichore. Since then, the sets and costumes of Andre
Beauchamp (which look rather kitsch on the photographs)
were removed or simplified, and the prologue showing the birth
of Apollo disappeared too. I wonder if the choreography itself
changed since the premiere... It entered the POB repertory
in 1947 (with Michel Renault as Apollo), and was danced
95 times since then.
I had already seen Charles Jude dancing this ballet with the POB
in 1995, but this time the Muses were not the same: they were
Agnes Letestu as Terpsichore (instead of Francoise Legree),
Delphine Moussin as Calliope and Clotilde Vayer as Polymnie
(instead of Carole Arbo and Elisabeth Maurin).
Charles Jude still was elegant, handsome and noble, with
some very graceful hands. Letestu was technically impressive
as Terpsichore, more energetic than Legree; however, I found her
a bit too tall to dance with Jude (when on pointe, she's
really taller than him, which looks a bit odd).
Vayer and Moussin sometimes looked less used to dancing
together than Arbo and Maurin, but their variations were
good.
"Agon" entered the POB repertory in 1974, 17 years after its creation,
and was danced 102 times since then. I had already seen it in
1995 (and really loved it), I found it even greater this time.
I think I could see it tenths of times without getting bored...
I especially enjoyed the beginning and the end of the piece,
which had less striked me the previous time I saw it...
I loved the way it used symmetries and symmetries, and the
kind of humor it used.
Jean-Yves Lormeau danced the first pas de trois with
Karin Averty and Ghislaine Fallou. It's his last season
with the POB (he'll turn 45 in 1997, and has been in the company
since 1972), and one of the last opportunities to see it in such
a piece. He seemed to be a in an especially good shape that
evening, dancing with a lot of enthusiasm. This pas de trois
was one of the best moments of the ballet.
Elisabeth Maurin danced the second pas de trois with Pierre
Darde and Gil Isoart. I'm afraid I always felt rather uncomfortable
when seeing Maurin dancing pieces by Balanchine. Such roles
just don't seem to be well suited to her style and her
silhouette...
The pas de deux was danced by Fanny Gaida and Jose Martinez.
I was less impressed than when seeing danced by Lormeau and
Legree, maybe because Martinez looked a bit too "nice",
he looked like a careful partner but seemed a bit absent...
Gaida was very musical and flexible.
Then came "Capriccio", on Stravinsky's "Capriccio
for piano and orchestra" (I think one part of it was composed
when Stravinsky was living in Voreppe, a suburb of Grenoble
a few kilometers away from my parent's house...)
It was first striking because of its color: "Apollo"
was an all-white ballet, "Agon" was in black and white,
but "Capriccio" was bright red. When it was first danced
by the POB, in 1974, the costumes were by Bernard
Dayde (instead of the original costumes by Karinska),
and the name changed from "Rubies" to "Capriccio".
On the photographs I saw, the costumes looked simpler
(no jewels), but since all were in black and white, I
don't know if they still were red...
Now the POB dances it with costumes by Karinska,
red, crimson and glittering...
The mood of this ballet was much lighter than "Agon"'s,
it looked like a kind of entertaining game of virtuosity...
Isabelle Guerin and Manuel Legris danced it with charm
and humor, and also the tall, long-legged Marie-Agnes Gillot
(sujet of the corps de ballet) in the 3rd main role.
The audience seemed to like this ballet a lot,
it received many bows.
"Violin Concerto", the most recent of the 4 ballets of that evening,
entered the POB's repertory in 1984, but wasn't danced very much
since then (that evening was the 37th time, and it hadn't been danced
since 1989 or 1990). It reminded me of "Agon", by its colors
and its mixing of humor and austerity, but seemed to me a bit
more "Russian"... Francoise Legree and Jean-Yves Lormeau
danced the first Aria. Both of them were dancing at the POB
premiere of this piece in 1984 (I don't know which roles
they danced then), and both seemed to enjoy a lot this pas
de deux (Legree too will probably retire in 1997).
Legree looked fragile and somewhat feline in her role...
The second Aria was danced by Stephane Phavorin (a young
"sujet" of the corps de ballet) and Karin Averty
(premiere danseuse), who were replacing Carole
Arbo and Kader Belarbi who were injured. It was
a great opportunity for Phavorin, and he used it brightly
(also getting some very good reviews). The only time
I had seen him in a role of soloist before was in "Serenade"
last year- well, he seems to have a lot of talent for Balanchine
pieces. The whole corps de ballet was very impressive at the end
of this ballet.
The pianist Jean-Yves Sebillotte (in "Capriccio"),
he violonist Maxim Tholance (in "Violin Concerto") and
the conductor Vello Pahn received their shares of applauses too.
Well, it seems that for once I'm not the only one who saw that
programme- Derek, what did you think of it (you didn't seem
to like "Apollo"...)?
Some news about the Paris Opera Ballet: the next inner competition
will be on december 23rd, and there will be 4 new "premiers
danseurs" (there are 5 categories of dancers: etoiles, premiers
danseurs, sujets, coryphees and quadrilles), which is really
unusual (the last new male premier danseur was Jose Martinez
in 1992, the 2 last new female ones were Delphibe Moussin and
Agnes Letestu respectively in 1994 and 1993...). On the other
hand, the POB direction seems unlikely to promote some new
etoiles (principals), though Monique Loudieres retired last summer
and Lormeau and Legree will retire soon, and though all the
female etoiles are over 32 now...
Estelle
Balanchine page: http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~esouche/danse/Balan.html
POB page: http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~esouche/danse/POB.html
amyr...@aol.com
In article <1996121915...@caracala.ens-lyon.fr>, Estelle Souche
<Estelle...@ens-lyon.fr> writes:
>"Apollo" had been premiered in Paris at the Theatre Sarah Bernhardt
>(now the Theatre de la Ville, I think) in 1928, as "Apollon
>musagete" (Apollo conductor of the muse- I don't think I
>ever saw the word "musagete" used with anoybody else
>than Apollo...) with Serge Lifar as Apollo and Alice Nikitina
>as Terpsichore. Since then, the sets and costumes of Andre
>Beauchamp (which look rather kitsch on the photographs)
>were removed or simplified, and the prologue showing the birth
>of Apollo disappeared too. I wonder if the choreography itself
>changed since the premiere... It entered the POB repertory
>in 1947 (with Michel Renault as Apollo), and was danced
>95 times since then.
Hartford Ballet did the prologue with a set in it's performance of the
piece last September, but the original costume designs were not used. (I
agree, I can't imagine the ballet's lines being anything but obscured by
those costumes & weren't there wigs as well?)
~ Amy
___________________________________________________________
Amy Reusch - eye4...@aol.com
Dance Videographer, now based in Hartford, CT
http://members.aol.com/eye4dance/home.htm
DANCE LINKS: http://www.dancer.com/dance-links
A.A.B. E-Mail Directory: http://www.dancer.com/email-links
nana...@aol.com
In article <19961221155...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
amyr...@aol.com writes:
>In article <1996121915...@caracala.ens-lyon.fr>, Estelle Souche
><Estelle...@ens-lyon.fr> writes:
>
>>"Apollo" had been premiered in Paris at the Theatre Sarah Bernhardt
>>(now the Theatre de la Ville, I think) in 1928, as "Apollon
>>musagete" (Apollo conductor of the muse- I don't think I
>>ever saw the word "musagete" used with anoybody else
>>than Apollo...) with Serge Lifar as Apollo and Alice Nikitina
>>as Terpsichore. Since then, the sets and costumes of Andre
>>Beauchamp (which look rather kitsch on the photographs)
>>were removed or simplified, and the prologue showing the birth
>>of Apollo disappeared too. I wonder if the choreography itself
>>changed since the premiere... It entered the POB repertory
>>in 1947 (with Michel Renault as Apollo), and was danced
>>95 times since then.
>
ABT has retored the prologue, and performs it at some Apollo perfs (this
happened during the bizarre Apoll-o-rama staged by ABT and NYCB last
spring), I believe. I saw it once with Kathleen Moore as the Mother. As
ever, she was terrific, but it is a weird bit, and I can see why Mr.B.
dropped it. There is footage somewhere, I don't remember what kind but
someone will, of NYCB doing this with, as I recall, Farrell doing the
opening,:extremely sexy.
Derek Parker
In message <1996121915...@caracala.ens-lyon.fr>
Estelle Souche <Estelle...@ens-lyon.fr> writes:
> After quite a lot of problems, I finally managed to see the
> Balanchine/Stravinsky program of the Paris Opera Ballet last
> monday evening.
> It included "Apollo", "Agon", "Capriccio" and "Violin Concerto"
Yes, we too managed to get to the performance after the strikes.
Alas, the evening confirmed my feeling that Balanchine is in the end
a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
dancer; these were what I'd call 'decent' performances... I guess
all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well. I will say that
he and Stravinsky, in these pieces, were perfectly matched: what arid
scores - apart from Apollo.
Sorry for a rather bitter posting!
Derek {arker.
Leigh Witchel
In article <199612272...@zetnet.co.uk>,
Derek Parker <parke...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <1996121915...@caracala.ens-lyon.fr>
> Estelle Souche <Estelle...@ens-lyon.fr> writes:
>
>
>> Balanchine/Stravinsky program of the Paris Opera Ballet last
>> monday evening.
>> It included "Apollo", "Agon", "Capriccio" and "Violin Concerto"
>
>Alas, the evening confirmed my feeling that Balanchine is in the end
>a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
>dancer; these were what I'd call 'decent' performances... I guess
>all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well. I will say that
>he and Stravinsky, in these pieces, were perfectly matched: what arid
>scores - apart from Apollo.
>
complained about the "Ame frigidaire" of NYCB.
"When you say we have no soul, you mean our soul is not like yours."
Probably for the best for you to stick with what you enjoy.
LAW
Leigh Witchel - d...@panix.com http://users.aol.com/lwitchel/web/index.htm
"No, there is no such thing as a gay sensibility,
and yes, it has an enormous impact on our culture" - Jeff Weinstein
Jessica Schein
Leigh Witchel wrote:
>
> >
> I think the best answer comes from Balanchine himself when the French
> complained about the "Ame frigidaire" of NYCB.
>
> "When you say we have no soul, you mean our soul is not like yours."
>
Funny, all the while POB was in NY this summer, I kept saying they had
no soul. That NYCB never was that soulless. Guess Mr. B and I are
really soulmates.
svke...@aol.com
>Alas, the evening confirmed my feeling that Balanchine is in the end
>a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
>dancer; these were what I'd call 'decent' performances... I guess
>all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well.
Each to his own. I love most of Balanchine's work, but it's nice to read
dissenting opinions. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on why you
find his work boring.
>I guess
>all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well.
Probably just a good flaming. But let's get everyone involved! What
choreographers do the rest of you find boring/overrated/tedious/godawful?
For myself, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like Fokine. "Les
Sylphides" is his least objectionable work, but I find little of interest
in it. On the other hand, "Spectre of the Rose" annoys me. I recently
watched a video of "Spectre" performed by Baryshnikov and Tcherkassky, and
even they couldn't save it. Watching Baryshnikov mince around in that
ridiculous outfit, I felt like I was watching a lowbrow adolescent parody
of ballet. Fokine is what I thought ballet was back when I didn't like
it: overly affected, flowery twittering about without rhyme or reason.
Perhaps I'm making a mistake by not viewing Fokine's work in the context
of its time; but in that case I'd still contend that it hasn't aged well.
________________________________
Steve "once more into the fray" Keeley
SVKe...@aol.com
Jeffrey E. Salzberg
In article <19961228155...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
svke...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <199612272...@zetnet.co.uk>, Derek Parker
> <parke...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>>Alas, the evening confirmed my feeling that Balanchine is in the end
>>a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
>>dancer; these were what I'd call 'decent' performances... I guess
>>all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well.
>
> Each to his own. I love most of Balanchine's work, but it's nice to read
> dissenting opinions. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on why you
> find his work boring.
William Goldman ("Marathon Man", "The Princess Bride") wrote a marvelous book called "The Season" in which he takes
the 1967 Broadway season, analyses it, and uses it as metaphor for American theatre. In his chapter on critics (and the
book is worth the price just to read Goldman's opinion of Clive Barnes), he talks about what he calls the Supercritic. The
Supercritic only allows himself to like the most esoteric, inaccessible works; if a Supercritic admits that he likes something
that's even remotely popular, other Supercritics can say, "Oh, so that's the sort of thing *you* like."
I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
Do I speak Truth?
=========================================
Cullen Performance Hall web page:
http://www.cph.uh.edu/cph/cullenhp.htm.
Houston Dance Coalition web page:
http://www.cph.uh.edu/hdc/hdc.htm.
Ask me about the Texas-Dance, Houston-Performances,
and Cichlid mailing lists.
=========================================
Leigh Witchel
In article <32C519...@worldnet.att.net>,
I had this rather unnerving vision of you, myself, Mr. B., Lincoln
Kirstein, Arlene Croce, alt.arts.ballet...on Soul Train. Lecturing about
Soul. Eating Dover Sole or Soul Food.
'Pon my soul!
LAW
"Beautiful costumes and grandiose musical ambition serve only to
underline the sadness of the enterprise: like a wan girl in a fabulous
prom dress, the work's lack of personality leaves you looking over its
shoulder for another partner." E. Zimmer, Village Voice, 7/4/95
And Elizabeth would be there, too.
Tom
svke...@aol.com wrote:
:
: On the other hand, "Spectre of the Rose" annoys me.
Bound to. It was choreographed for Nijinsky, who seems to have been the
only dancer who could do it without being ridiculous, even then--& our
taste has changed since then.
Add to that the fact that he used that cheesy von Weber music when he could
have used Berlioz's setting (from "Nuits d'ete") & you have all the
ingredients for a fiasco.
Tom ("Supercritic"? Moi?) Parsons
--
--
t...@panix.com | A teacher affects eternity; he can
| never tell where his influence stops.
http://www.panix.com/~twp | --Henry Adams
szoradi
Derek Parker wrote:
.....> Balanchine is in the end
> a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
> dancer...
Derek -- Interesting viewpoint. Just curious--who are your favorite
choreographers and why? Regarding Balanchine...have you ever seen
"Symphony in C," "Theme & Variations," "Diamonds," "Raymonda
Variations" and "Ballet Imperial" danced live? If, by chance, you're a
dyed-in-the-wool Royal Ballet Traditionalist, these five ballets may
slightly alter your feelings about Mr. B's work. -- Jeannie
Leigh Witchel
In article <5a3grq$a...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU>,
Jeffrey E. Salzberg <JSal...@uh.edu> wrote:
>In article <19961228155...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>svke...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In article <199612272...@zetnet.co.uk>, Derek Parker
>> <parke...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well.
>>
>> Each to his own. I love most of Balanchine's work, but it's nice to read
>> dissenting opinions. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on why you
>> find his work boring.
>
>William Goldman ("Marathon Man", "The Princess Bride") wrote a marvelous book called "The Season" in which he takes
>the 1967 Broadway season, analyses it, and uses it as metaphor for American theatre. In his chapter on critics (and the
>book is worth the price just to read Goldman's opinion of Clive Barnes), he talks about what he calls the Supercritic. The
>Supercritic only allows himself to like the most esoteric, inaccessible works; if a Supercritic admits that he likes something
>that's even remotely popular, other Supercritics can say, "Oh, so that's the sort of thing *you* like."
>
>I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
>
>Do I speak Truth?
>
of a sort ;-). It depends on whether the critic in question happens to
only allow him or herself to like certain works or happens to love them
best.
I'll buy tickets to see Merce. I'd only go to Riverdance if I were
comp'ed in. And that's the way it is, without apologies on my part. I
don't consider Merce esoteric. And some popular entertainment says things
to me which I consider insidious.
People have a right to patronize what they wish, of course. But please
don't tell me dross is gold.
LAW
Leigh Witchel - d...@panix.com http://users.aol.com/lwitchel/web/index.htm
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred
sixty two admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God
doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more
supervision." --Lynne Lavner
szoradi
Steve Keeley wrote:
> For myself, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like Fokine. "Les
> Sylphides" is his least objectionable work, but I find little of interest
> in it. On the other hand, "Spectre of the Rose" annoys me. I recently
> watched a video of "Spectre" performed by Baryshnikov and Tcherkassky, and
> even they couldn't save it.
I feel the same about "Spectre's" choreography--I fall asleep just like
the girl in the ballet...except that I don't wake up when the Rose jetes
onto the scene!! The thing about Fokine's great works under Diaghilev,
though, is the TOTAL PICTURE of a blending of various visual and
performing arts. The choreography of "Firebird" or "Petrushka" alone
would not a masterpiece make. It took Stravinsky's music and Benois and
Bakst's designs--along with Fokine's choreography--to make those works
masterpieces of XXth C. Western Art. "Spectre" doesn't quite offer the
overall high quality of Firebird/Petrushka/Chopiniana, but you have to
admit that the combination of music, design and choreography does blend
to create a sort of "Romantic perfume" of the Belle Epoque. -- Jeannie
Kathryn S. Long
In response to Steve Keeley, t...@panix.com (Tom) writes:
>svke...@aol.com wrote:
>:
>: On the other hand, "Spectre of the Rose" annoys me.
>Bound to. It was choreographed for Nijinsky, who seems to have been the
>only dancer who could do it without being ridiculous, even then--& our
>taste has changed since then.
>Add to that the fact that he used that cheesy von Weber music when he could
>have used Berlioz's setting (from "Nuits d'ete") & you have all the
>ingredients for a fiasco.
>Tom ("Supercritic"? Moi?) Parsons
I don't think von Weber's music is "cheesy" at all; it's the orchestral
arrangement that bothers me. The piece is titled "Invitation to the
Dance." I'm currently practicing the original rendition for piano, and I
think it's beautiful, and classier than Berlioz's arrangement for the ballet.
It reminds me of how Chopin's waltzes and preludes were ruined in the
arrangement for "Les Sylphides." Lots of times all the sparkle simply
disappears when the piano is taken away.
Kathryn Long (:
Bruce Marriott
A choreographer I hate with a passion is Bejart.
I have unfortunately attended two of his programmes in the last few
years and I hated nearly all of it. Its a sadness to me that Sylvie
Guillem rates him... and indeed the only reason I went was to see her.
The piece of his that most sticks in my mind was "Mr C". It was
nominally about Charlie Chaplin. Besides dancers it also featured
relatives of Chaplin talking about how hard it is to be related to
somebody famous. and it went on and on and on and on and on. There was
no sign of a master at work here showing us interesting insights. It
struck me as they type of thing a pretentious 10 year old would come
up with. Not at all professional. At the end about half the audience
when berserk in their appreciation while the other half sat in stunned
silence.
On the second visit Sylvie was scheduled to dance in the last piece. I
can't recall what the first dance was but it was so grim we decided we
had had enough and left. What greater advert can there be?!
bruce
svke...@aol.com
In article <5a3rt3$i...@panix2.panix.com>, d...@panix.com (Leigh Witchel)
writes:
>I'll buy tickets to see Merce. I'd only go to Riverdance if I were
>comp'ed in. And that's the way it is, without apologies on my part. I
>don't consider Merce esoteric.
I do.
esoteric
adjective
Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult.
See Synonyms at MYSTERIOUS. b. Of or relating to that which is known by a
restricted number of people.
One could argue that all of the dance we discuss here is esoteric, from
"Swan Lake" to Merce, in that the population in general seems unable, or
onwilling, to enjoy it. But if I limit myself just to the population of
regular dance-goers, I still contend that Merce is esoteric. I was not
able to enjoy his work, and I suspect a majority of dance fans are in the
same boat. While there was nothing inherently obscure about the
choreography (the dancing itself was, I think, more accessible than
something like "Agon"), Merce's separation of the dance from music left me
unable to appreciate it. I think that the ability to enjoy Merce (as
distinct from having an intellectual exercise) is a rarified ability, one
that is either inborn or must be cultivated. It's an ability I don't
possess, therefore to me Merce is esoteric.
There are levels of esoteric, depending on an individual's background. To
some people who only enjoy full-length story ballets, just about all
repertory ballet is esoteric. (The full-length story ballets always sell
better. This indicates that there is a large segment of the dance public
who can only appreciate those, or that they choose to spend their limited
dance dollar on the form they enjoy most.) Even with as accessible a
choreographer as Balanchine, I would label some of his works esoteric
("Agon," "4-Ts") in that they require a more developed understanding of
the dance vocabulary to be enjoyed. I recently introduced someone whose
only previous experience was with full-length classics to Balanchine by
showing her the Balanchine Celebration videos. She enjoyed "Theme and
Variations," "Union Jack," "Stars and Stripes," "Western Symphony," and
"Who Cares?"; didn't like "Apollo" or "Agon" at all (I didn't like "Agon"
at first, either). Some works just require more sophistication from the
viewer than others. I would never spring Merce on a beginner.
>But please
>don't tell me dross is gold.
O.K., but how about some beach-front property in Florida? It's right ON
the water...
_________________
Steve Keeley
SVKe...@aol.com
svke...@aol.com
>but you have to
>admit that the combination of music, design and choreography does blend
>to create a sort of "Romantic perfume" of the Belle Epoque.
A very good point. I've never liked any Belle Epoque art, too flowery and
ornamented, just too damn "busy." So it stands to reason that I wouldn't
care for choreography that evoked it.
_________________
Steve Keeley
SVKe...@aol.com
Derek Parker
Yes, I guess nobody could do Spectre today and get away with it: I
remember seeing Fonteyn dance it about thirty years ago withJohn
Gilpin, a young dancer who was Anton Dolin's partner for some years -
not, I mean, on-stage; his career was sadly ruined by drink, he
retired early, became a BBC TV producer, and died a few years ago.
Anyway, they were personally coached by Karsavina, who of course
danced in the original production with Nijinsky. It looked an
unbearable piece of kitch even then (but I guess no dancer could now
get away with that rose-petal costume!) Still and all, the Nijinsky
must have been sensational, originally - too many critics and
balletomanes said so for it not to be true. Interestingly, no
contemporary critic mentioned the sensational final leap which brougt
the audience to its feet. I guess it was a ballet which could only
ever have been done by its original protagonists - like 'Marguerite
and Armand', which I suppose will never be revived and would perhaps
look ridiculous if it were.
Rather agree about Bejart: enormous talent, expressed with unvarying
flair in extremely irritating ways! His 'Nininsky, Clown of God'
had its moments though. And incidentally, Nijinsky may have been
rather a good choreographer - I saw Nureyev in a meticulous
reconstruction of 'L'Apres-midi d'un faune' and it was pretty
impressive (though I have a hunch that maybe 'Jeux' would have been
the work of his which would most appeal to us today). But now we're
on to favourite rather than unfavourite choreographers, and if I'm
not careful I shall be off on the old argument that the only
worthwhile20th century choreographer was the late Blessed Sir Fred.
Happy New Year!
Derek.
Leigh Witchel
In article <19961230001...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
<nana...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <5a3grq$a...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU>, JSal...@uh.edu (Jeffrey E.
>Salzberg) writes:
>
>>I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
>
I have. It's adorable!
Smoochies!
LAW
Jeffrey E. Salzberg
>>And you should see the cute outfit I get to wear.xxxNanatchka
>
>
>I have. It's adorable!
Oh, Leigh, you have all the luck.
Seriously (hey, it happens to *everyone* sooner or later), while I did have
one or two people in mind when I posited that we have Supercritics here on
A.A.B., it's interesting that none of the people who've responded to my
comment are people whom I would so describe.
=========================================
Visit the Houston Dance Coalition web page at http://maurice.cph.uh.edu/hdc/hdc.htm.
nana...@aol.com
>I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
And you should see the cute outfit I get to wear.xxxNanatchka
Rima Cooke
In <5a3grq$a...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU> JSal...@uh.edu (Jeffrey E. Salzberg)
writes:
>
>In article <19961228155...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>svke...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In article <199612272...@zetnet.co.uk>, Derek Parker
>> <parke...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>Alas, the evening confirmed my feeling that Balanchine is in the end
>>>a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
>>>dancer; these were what I'd call 'decent' performances... I guess
>>>all America will now want to strangle me; oh, well.
>>
>> Each to his own. I love most of Balanchine's work, but it's nice to
read
>> dissenting opinions. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on
why you
>> find his work boring.
>
>William Goldman ("Marathon Man", "The Princess Bride") wrote a
marvelous book called "The Season" in which he takes
>
>the 1967 Broadway season, analyses it, and uses it as metaphor for
American theatre. In his chapter on critics (and the
>
>book is worth the price just to read Goldman's opinion of Clive
Barnes), he talks about what he calls the Supercritic. The
>
>Supercritic only allows himself to like the most esoteric,
inaccessible works; if a Supercritic admits that he likes something
>
>that's even remotely popular, other Supercritics can say, "Oh, so
that's the sort of thing *you* like."
>
>I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
>
>Do I speak Truth?
Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Sometimes I have a hard
time believing that a critic and I went to the exact same performance
when I read the review. And I'm not talking just about ballet critics.
I think there is a certain snobbishness amongst critics whereby they
try to justify their right to have that job.
Bang2B
Regardless of the definition of esoteric, I never found Merce
inaccessible. I first saw Merce Cunningham before I began to dance. I
adored it instantly and bought tickets to the next performance. I was 16.
During this past summer I attended a retreat for presenters, managers
and choreographers at Jacob's Pillow. Many had the same story to tell.
Esoteric or not Merce has had the ability to ignite a passion for dance.
David
Jane Simpson
In article <199612272...@zetnet.co.uk>,
Derek Parker <parke...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> In message <1996121915...@caracala.ens-lyon.fr>
> Estelle Souche <Estelle...@ens-lyon.fr> writes:
>
> > Balanchine/Stravinsky program of the Paris Opera Ballet last
> > monday evening.
> > It included "Apollo", "Agon", "Capriccio" and "Violin Concerto"
>
> a rather dull choreographer, at his best onyl when really superbly
> dancer; these were what I'd call 'decent' performances... I guess
> he and Stravinsky, in these pieces, were perfectly matched: what arid
> scores - apart from Apollo.
>
>
> Derek {arker.
'Balanchine is at his best only when superbly danced': isn't this (a)
true of every great choreographer, and (b) an argument for rather than
against his
greatness?
After all, a poor performance can make even Mozart or Shakespeare sound
boring...even Ashton can look dull when danced by someone who doesn't
understand the style, as any number of performances at Covent Garden bear
witness!
Doesn't great choreography *demand* superlative performances to be
properly seen? If it isn't done properly - if the timing's wrong, or the
subtle details are blurred, it isn't Balanchine/Ashton/Petipa any more,
but a poor copy? You wouldn't blame Shakespeare if you were bored by a
performance by someone who couldn't speak the verse properly and missed
out all the long
words...
(None of this is meant as a reflection on the Paris performance, which I
didn't see)
Jane Simpson
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Bang2B
>>Yes, but look at what business you all wound up in; that would indicate
a
certain predisposition not present in the general audience. It would be
like me claiming that Calculus is easy because I found it so, and so did
all the engineers I work with!<<
I made nothing beyond the claim that I never found Merce inaccessible.
Whether I was predisposed toward dance is a question I can't answer. The
presenters and managers are not dancers, choreographers or academics
either. I do not believe dance and music must go together. You do. You
find Merce inaccessible, so do people you know. I don't and people I know
don't either. Guess we're even.
David
Tom
nana...@aol.com wrote:
: In article <5a3grq$a...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU>, JSal...@uh.edu (Jeffrey E.
: Salzberg) writes:
: >I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
: And you should see the cute outfit I get to wear.xxxNanatchka
Getting harder & harder to find a suitable phone booth in which
to change, however....
Tom
nana...@aol.com
In article <19961230215...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
svke...@aol.com writes:
> Bear in mind that I'm
>approaching this from the point of view of an ordinary guy who buys his
>tickets and just watches. I would expect a different perspective from
>those who are choreographers (and academics and dance writers) who are
>accustomed to analyzing dance in its parts.
(We are talking about Merce. ) But when I fell in love with Merce, Steve,
I wasn't a dance writer. I suspect I am a dance writer because I fell in
love with Merce.(All this discussion of what is and isn't esoteric is a
hoot, when you think about it. This is aab, right? Eliminate the
Nutcracker and R*v*r*d*nce and we are Esoterics, Anonymous.) And Steve, I
still think anyone who learned to like Agon and 4 Ts --and anyone as all
out smart as you are, come to think of it--could learn to like Merce. You
just have to see the music instead of hearing it. Like watching the stars
and hearing the music of the spheres. As the year turns, Nanatchka
plai...@mindspring.com
Tom wrote:
> : Salzberg) writes:
>
> : >I think we have a Supercritic or two here on A.A.B.
>
> : And you should see the cute outfit I get to wear.xxxNanatchka
>
> Getting harder & harder to find a suitable phone booth in which
> to change, however....
>
> Tom
But luckily they have some at the New York City Ballet. --Lobellia
timv...@aol.com
In article <199612291...@zetnet.co.uk>, Derek Parker
<parke...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
> Interestingly, no
>contemporary critic mentioned the sensational final leap which brougt
>the audience to its feet.
I've learned thanks to this newsgroup that Fokine was anything but a
reliable reporter, but I might as well relate this for the sake of
discussion. He says in his autobiography that the sill of the window
Nijinski lept through was barely a foot off the stage. He claims that the
audience was applauding the entire performance, not just the final leap,
and attributes the more popular account to Mme. Romola Nijinska, who
witnessed the opening night performance from her comfortable abode in
Budapest.
Tim Victor
TimV...@aol.com
Leigh Witchel
In article <199612311...@zetnet.co.uk>,
Derek Parker <parke...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <8519676...@dejanews.com>
> jhp...@ibm.net (Jane Simpson) writes:
> a poor performance can make even Mozart or Shakespeare sound
>> boring...even Ashton can look dull when danced by someone who doesn't
>> understand the style, as any number of performances at Covent Garden bear
>> witness!
>
>> Doesn't great choreography *demand* superlative performances to be
>> properly seen?
>
>way, was that I can tolerate poorly danced Ashton or|Petipa more
>easily than poorly danced Balanchine, because the latter doesn't seem
>to me to have the rich layers of emotion which the former have, and
>which even undistinguished performances can 'ride' on. With Mr B,
>it seems to me that all there is is the movement, in an emotional
>vacuum; if that isn't conveyed to the letter, nothing much remains
>but ashes. But as someone else properly pointed out, it's the
>difference between tea and coffee; I HATE tea!
>Derek.
>
>
It's definitely a tea/coffee thing. I feel about Balanchine as you feel
about Ashton. I don't need to see NYCB dancers do Balanchine (although I
*have* to see musical dancers do it. The main requirement in my head to a
good performance of Mr. B's works is to make musically responsible and
intelligent choices. A good example of a non-Balanchine dancer who does
Balanchine works in a lovely, but totally non-NYCB way is Amanda
McKerrow.) Also I find the Balanchine works to be deeply emotional. The
content is within the form, rather than 100% dependent upon the emoting
skills of the dancer. Because of this, I find they withstand re-casting
better in that they convey meaning simply by being danced well. If the
Ashton isn't coached, and the dancer is not a gifted actor or actress, the
ballet loses most of its impact.
But that's splitting hairs. Most choreography suffers immeasurably when
the choreographer is not there to explain what s/he wants out of the work,
whether Ashton, Balanchine or anybody else.
Parenthetically, it's a shame you don't "get" Mr. B's work. We don't see
enough Ashton here, but when it comes, it's always welcomed. Both
choreographers provide feasts for the eyes, brain and heart.
LAW
Derek Parker
Bang2B
>> I can tolerate poorly danced Ashton or|Petipa more
easily than poorly danced Balanchine, because the latter doesn't seem
to me to have the rich layers of emotion which the former have, and
which even undistinguished performances can 'ride' on. With Mr B,
it seems to me that all there is is the movement, in an emotional
vacuum; if that isn't conveyed to the letter, nothing much remains
but ashes. But as someone else properly pointed out, it's the
difference between tea and coffee; I HATE tea!
Derek.<<
Isn't that interesting? There are no Balanchine works of which i'm fond
which seem to me to exist in an emotional vacuum. I like Ashton very much
and don't find his work any more emotionally layered than Balanchine's
work. There are certainly fewer works in the Balanchine canon in which
the dancers play characters with names and wear costumes which look like
clothes, but those things have little to do with emotional richness.
Symphonic Variations is emotionally rich, so is Agon. A Month in the
Country is emotionally rich, so is Liebeslieder Walzer. If any of these
works were poorly danced I doubt they'd amount to much.
David
svke...@aol.com
In article <19961231043...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
nana...@aol.com writes:
Since we used the "M" word, I was wondering how long it would take you to
turn up! Happy to see that the old invocations still work.
>And Steve, I
>still think anyone who learned to like Agon and 4 Ts --and anyone as all
>out smart as you are, come to think of it--
Forget it. I'm immune to flattery. My opinion of myself is so high that
even the most profuse praise falls short.
>could learn to like Merce.
Perhaps. I suppose that if I learned to like "Agon," I can learn to like
a lot of things. I remember my first impression of it; the nicest thing I
could say was that it was fascinating to see what the dancers could do
with their bodies. It took quite a few doses of "Agon" before it worked
for me. (After that, "4-T's" was a piece of cake.)
>You
>just have to see the music instead of hearing it. Like watching the stars
>and hearing the music of the spheres.
When *I* look at the stars, I hear "When You Wish Upon a Star."
But speaking of dance-without-music, during my two NYCB immersion trips to
NY, I'll be seeing 2 -- count 'em -- 2 performances of Robbin's "Moves,"
which I understand he did without music. (Didn't really WANT to see it,
but you can't order programs a la carte.) Anybody have any opinions to
offer on "Moves"?
_________________
Steve Keeley
SVKe...@aol.com
Bang2B
I have an opinion on "Moves". I find it embarassing. It's a very pale
imitation of Merce. I want to giggle during it, the same way I want to
sneeze in church. It has that sort of aura of holiness about it. Or is
it self righteousness? Or wait, maybe it's just pretentiousness....ah
,well.
David
Derek Parker
Maybe the thing is that I find personally I'm relatively infrequently
moved by abstract ballets unless they are danced with remarkable
finesse; but the truth is that there's no accounting for tastes, and
I do go on trying... what I don't like today, I may like tomorrow!
Derek.
nana...@aol.com
In article <19961231221...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
svke...@aol.com writes:
>But speaking of dance-without-music, during my two NYCB immersion trips
to
>NY, I'll be seeing 2 -- count 'em -- 2 performances of Robbin's "Moves,"
>which I understand he did without music. (Didn't really WANT to see it,
>but you can't order programs a la carte.) Anybody have any opinions to
>offer on "Moves"?
>_________________
Every time I see "Moves," I think, "What a genius Merce is.". This dance
is nothing like Cunningham, any more than any other Robbins is. One dance
without music in a repertory is a whole different kettle of fish from 50
years of making dances like this.( In the dance-without-music as
experiment arena, I think Mark Morris's "Behemoth" is the more Mercian and
also the more successful effort). "Moves" reminds me a bit of the posing
in muscle building competitions, and a bit of the dance Audrey Hepburn
does in the modern dance parody segment in Funny Face. Steve, programs a
la carte is such a fabulous fantasy, I can hardly stand it. Who wants to
start a Dances I Never Want to See Again, for One Reason or Another
thread?) Summoned by Keeley, Nanatchka
Bang2B
Nanatchka wrote:
>>Moves" reminds me a bit of the posing
in muscle building competitions, and a bit of the dance Audrey Hepburn
does in the modern dance parody segment in Funny Face<<
Hahahaha. So true, so true. Maybe JR can have the cast study Ms.
Hepburn's performance to strike the right balance between mirth, tragedy,
irony, sarcasm, eroticism, violence, narcissism, aggression, fear, and all
the other things Moves seems to think its about...oh yes, tax reform, the
Treaty of Versailles, the New World Order, family values....sigh
David
nana...@aol.com
In article <19970102202...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ban...@aol.com
(Bang2B) writes:
> I don't
>find it plotless, i don't respond to it as abstract. I hope i never see
a
>dance which i find abstract.
>David
Well of course Merce Cunningham says that he doesn't understand how people
can call his work abstract, because people are doing it. I agree. People
are not by nature abstract. What could be less abstract and more direct
than dancers simply performing as themselves? There is so much drama
inherent simply in certain groupings--duet, trio--and the relationships
they suggest, and in the contrast of different kinds of movement, or even
of different people doing the same kind of movement. The closest I have
seen to abstraction in dance were certain of Lucinda Childs's pieces of
perhaps 10 years ago, more or less. And I would say depersonalized is a
better description anyway. Nanatchka
eso...@ens.ens-lyon.fr
Well, when I first saw "Serenade" on TV (it was the second ballet
of Balanchine I saw, after "Theme and Variations" at the Paris
Opera), I thought it was rather interesting. It was the same
with Martha Graham's "Errand into the maze" and "Acts of light"...
And now these are among my very favorite ballets (and some ballets
I liked a lot when first seeing it seem boring to me now...)
Have you seen Balanchine's "The Prodigal son"? It's one of
his few narrative ballets, maybe it'd be closer to your tastes...
Just curious: which dancers did you see in the Balanchine/Stravinsky
program at the Paris Opera?
Estelle
eso...@ens.ens-lyon.fr
>A choreographer I hate with a passion is Bejart.
>
>I have unfortunately attended two of his programmes in the last few
>years and I hated nearly all of it. Its a sadness to me that Sylvie
>Guillem rates him... and indeed the only reason I went was to see her.
>
<snip>
>bruce
Which ballets of him did you see?
I'm likely to agree with you about most of his recent ballets.
I liked most of his old ballets (created in the 60s-early 70s),
such as "The Rite of Spring", "The Firebird", "Bolero" or
"Bhakti", but he seems to be more and more likely to put endless
texts into his ballets, and to mix it with mythology, religion,
theater, etc.
In France he's very famous, a lot of people who never saw a ballet
know his name- I think he had an historical role, he became successful
in a time when there were nearly no modern companies in France,
and his company included some exceptional dancers (Jorge Donn,
Suzanne Farrell, Paolo Bortoluzzi...) And he created some great
roles for male dancers. A lot of people discovered dance thanks
to the performances of his company (including my own parents :-) )-
err, it reminds me of the current "Riverdance" thread, and of the
previous "Billboards" thread... But his audience also went to see
other companies later.
Now he seems to have lost some of his inspiration... (A bit like
Roland Petit, but not in the same way.)
Estelle
eso...@ens.ens-lyon.fr
Steve wrote:
<snip>
>There are levels of esoteric, depending on an individual's background. To
>some people who only enjoy full-length story ballets, just about all
>repertory ballet is esoteric. (The full-length story ballets always sell
>better. This indicates that there is a large segment of the dance public
>who can only appreciate those, or that they choose to spend their limited
>dance dollar on the form they enjoy most.) Even with as accessible a
>choreographer as Balanchine, I would label some of his works esoteric
>("Agon," "4-Ts") in that they require a more developed understanding of
>the dance vocabulary to be enjoyed. I recently introduced someone whose
>only previous experience was with full-length classics to Balanchine by
>showing her the Balanchine Celebration videos. She enjoyed "Theme and
>Variations," "Union Jack," "Stars and Stripes," "Western Symphony," and
>"Who Cares?"; didn't like "Apollo" or "Agon" at all (I didn't like "Agon"
>at first, either). Some works just require more sophistication from the
>viewer than others. I would never spring Merce on a beginner.
<snip>
I have the feeling of having a mind working in a strange way...
The works I enjoyed most in the Balanchine Celebration videos
are "Apollo", "Agon", "Square Dance" and "Theme and Variations",
and it took me a lot of time to enjoy "Who Cares"... On the other
hand, I'm generally not enthusiastic at all about full-length story ballets
(except "Swan Lake" and "Giselle", but it wouldn't bother me much
to see only the white acts).
But I agree with you about the fact that some works require more
concentration or more experience than others... I try
to remember it when going to see a ballet with my parents
or my boyfriend... :-)
Estelle
Bruce Marriott
On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:30:05 GMT, eso...@ens.ens-lyon.fr wrote:
>
>>A choreographer I hate with a passion is Bejart.
>>
>>I have unfortunately attended two of his programmes in the last few
>>years and I hated nearly all of it. Its a sadness to me that Sylvie
>>Guillem rates him... and indeed the only reason I went was to see her.
>>
><snip>
>>bruce
>
>Which ballets of him did you see?
>I'm likely to agree with you about most of his recent ballets.
{snip}
>
>Estelle
>
I have only seen the recent stuff - within the last 5 years or so. I'm
afraid that apart from "Mr C" all the other titles have been expunged
from my memory - its probably my brains way of telling me just how
insulted it was at seeing it! (I did say I hated his 'choreography'
with a passion).
I've also just looked up Bejart in my "Boys Own Book of Ballet"
(otherwise known as "The Dance Handbook" by Allen Robertson and Donald
Hutera). There are lots of reference to him and he clearly has been
prolific.
Here is opening sentence "Maurice Bejart is one of the most
provocative figures in contemporary ballet, revered by a fanatical
mass audience, yet loathed by several leading (British, and especially
American) critics"
Its the first time I have read it, but loath about sums it up and I'm
glad I'm in good company.
bruce
a...@io-online.com
I thought the following might be of interest to your members. Please
pass it on to the appropriate parties.
Thank you,
A.L. Mogilner
=========================================================================
Bossov Ballet Theatre (BBT) 1997 Summer Camp Bulletin
Intensive Ballet Training Camp, ages 9 through professional
levels
Andrei Bossov, Ballet Master and Choreographer
formerly Principal Dancer, Choreographer, and Teacher with
Kirov,
St.Petersburg now forming his own company in Maine
Call (207) 938-4317 or write Michael D. Wyly,
Executive
Director,
BBT, RR1 Box 3530, Hartland, Maine
04943
$550 tuition for 4 weeks
Dormitory Room and Board for $105/week
Begins 23 June 1997
PROGRAM
*Four weeks intensive ballet training followed by 5th week "Production
Week"
to rehearse and present "Cinderella" on stage at Waterville Opera House.
*5 days a week, classes in Vaganova technique, pointe, partnering,
character,
and variations.
*We specialize in professional and pre-professional training. Our
highest
level class customarily includes a few professional dancers taking
advantage
of the opportunity to study under Bossov. However, Andrei is
extraordinary
with children, as well. Two years' previous ballet instruction required.
Andrei is meticulous about availing himself to teach personally at every
level. He wants to bring young dancers along as a means of "growing"
young
dancers who meet his standards of excellence.
Staff: Andrei will be assisted by a highly qualified staff (names to be
announced). While the staff will include female teachers, Andrei,
himself,
has extensive experience teaching pointe and his female students
frequently
comment that as a pointe teacher he is second to none.
Studio Location: Maine Central Institute (MCI), a boarding school in
Pittsfield, Maine, and the newly established home of Bossov Ballet
Theatre,
fourteen buildings on approxinateky thirty acres, on a hill overlooking
a
picturesque landscape combining rural countryside and small-town
America, is
immediately off Interstate 95 at Exit 38, between Waterville and Bangor.
The
campus has the advantages of being safe and supervised.
Dates and Fees:
*23 June through 18 July 1997, 4-week intensive training, $550 tuition.
Scholarships Available!
*Production Week: 21 July through 26 July 1997, for those selected
(notifications by 30 June):1-week intensive rehearsals and performances
of
Cinderella Friday and Saturday nights, 25 & 26 July, additional $125
production fee, for those who accept.
Room and Board: Dormitories and three meals per day, $105 per week.
Discount for Boarders: $10 discount on tuition for each week in the
dorm,
thus $50 discount on tuition for dancers who stay in dorm all five
weeks.
Payment Plan:
*$145 down, represents one week's tuition, thus reserves you a place in
the
program. We expect the program to fill to capacity this year, so it is
important to mail this in. Your deposit is fully refundable until 1 May
1997.
*Remainder of the $550 tuition ($405) must be received by 1 May. If not
received the customer will "lose his or her place in line" should the
program
fill up, and, be required to pay the $25 registration fee, required of
all
who register after 1 May.
*All payments received are refundable up until 1 May 1997.
*Students may sign up on a weekly basis, $145 for each week.
*Production Week, 21 - 26 July, will cost an additional $125 for those
who
are selected and choose to participate. This amount will be payable no
later
than Tuesday, 6 July.
*Room and board payments must be received by 1 May 1997. Tuition will be
discounted at the time the room and board payment is received.
To register: E-mail "Pv...@aol.com" and ask for electronic registration
form,
or telephone (207) 938-4317 and provide information by phone, or write
to BBT
at the address shown above and ask for registration form. Your check for
$145
must be received for us to hold a reservation for you in the program.
Checks payable to: "Bossov Ballet Theatre" or "BBT".
Mail to:
Bossov Ballet Theatre (BBT)
Wilderness Vineyard
RR1 Box 3530
Hartland, Maine 04943
Follow-Up: Upon receiving your registration we will send you
informational
and administrative mailings in timely advance of the program. These will
include detailed class schedules, medical release and information forms,
a
list of things to bring with you to Camp, an area orientation,
biographical
information on staff assistants, and program brochure. We want you to
feel
free to call, E-mail, or write any time. We care about youth!
About Maine Cantral Institute (MCI). On request we will also send you
information about MCI. MCI is a 4 year fully accredited high school,
grades
9-12 with boarding to support national and international programs.
Serious
dancers who would like to continue to study under Andrei Bossov during
the
academic year may want to apply to MCI and finish their high school
educations there.
CB
Bang2B responded to Derek Parker who wrote:
>
> >>Maybe the thing is that I find personally I'm relatively infrequently
> moved by abstract ballets unless they are danced with remarkable
> finesse; but the truth is that there's no accounting for tastes, and
> I do go on trying... what I don't like today, I may like tomorrow!
> Derek.<<
>
> can't for the life of me really find anything abstract in dance. I
> hear people call things "abstract" when talking of dances and I know
> what they mean in the vernacular sense. I find human bodies in motion > inherently dramatic, specifically so, and not necessarily > representational or symbolic.
How do you divide notions of dramatic or comic for that matter from
representational or symbolic ???
> Colloquially the word "abstract" often means plotless. Yet as
> Balanchine said, "how much plot do you want"? The pas de deux in Agon > seems shot through with images and actions which have immediate
> signifigance and embody the most precise psychosomatic realities. It
> has a series of causes and effects which serve the same function as
> narrative. I don't find it plotless, i don't respond to it as
> abstract. I hope i never see a dance which i find abstract.
> David
I don't mean to split hairs here, however this 'abstract' question has
been eating at me lately...
In the vernacular (as academics love to put it), the notion of *plot*
and *narrative* are often interchangeable. They may be considered,
however, as separate notions : plot being the story line versus the
narrative as that which presents this progressive line or certain static
meanings. This allows for narrative within a photographic image as well
as within an entire motion picture.
Now, whether or not the narrative is abstract seems to stem from the
relationship of the narrative to the possible meanings of
representation,
in otherwords the points of connected exterior reference. The larger
the number of possibilites, the looser the connection, the larger the
notion of 'abstract' art.
If there is blatent intent between the movement or the pose and meaning,
the connection is tight, and the art is 'realistic'.
So I hope I always have the opportunity to find abstract dance, in
ballet or modern, which does not in my mind exclude narrative.
Where would this leave 'abstract' dance in a comparison between
Cunningham vs. Graham, Ashton vs. Balanchine etc ?
Regards,
Cathryn
http://www.netdanse.com/
On the edge of the world, wondering which of the major
dance center hubs would be offering a production of 'Agon'
in 1997.. shamefully, I've never experienced it.
plai...@mindspring.com
nana...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <19970102202...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ban...@aol.com
> (Bang2B) writes:
>
> >find it plotless, i don't respond to it as abstract. I hope i never see
> a
> >dance which i find abstract.
> >David
> can call his work abstract, because people are doing it. I agree. People
> are not by nature abstract. What could be less abstract and more direct
> than dancers simply performing as themselves? There is so much drama
> inherent simply in certain groupings--duet, trio--and the relationships
> they suggest, and in the contrast of different kinds of movement, or even
> of different people doing the same kind of movement. The closest I have
> seen to abstraction in dance were certain of Lucinda Childs's pieces of
> perhaps 10 years ago, more or less. And I would say depersonalized is a
> better description anyway. Nanatchka
David and Nanatchka, why do you make "abstract" such an narrow and
pejorative term that you don't want to apply it to favorite
choreographers like Cunningham and Balanchine? I consider it an
extremely useful word that applies to dance that does not tell a story
or revolve around an explicit theme, but instead makes a drama out of
pattern, movement possibilities, and the juxtaposition of moving
bodies. Naturally if this is done well, we will have an emotional
response to it. Often we will see meaning in it. Our responses may
differ from the choreographer's if he has not given us the clues to his
thoughts and feelings while creating the work. But in calling a piece
"abstract" we will understand that this does not imply a negation of
either his or our intense response to the work. Instrumental music is
abstract, but (if good) dense with feeling. So is much abstract visual
art--the best abstract expressionism, Kandinsky (who saw his art as
intensely spiritual), etc. Abstraction in many cultures is also highly
symbolic. I propose that we celebrate abstraction and use the word with
pride. --Lobelia
nana...@aol.com
>In the vernacular (as academics love to put it), the notion of *plot*
>and *narrative* are often interchangeable. They may be considered,
>however, as separate notions : plot being the story line versus the
>narrative as that which presents this progressive line or certain static
>meanings. This allows for narrative within a photographic image as well
>as within an entire motion picture.
>
>
I find this distinction a bit confusing. I do like EMForster's, though.
Story is what happens; plot is how the author makes it happen. (Author in
the sense of the maker of the narrative work, if we are including dance.)
In the dances you are considering absract, there is possibly a
narrative--or a series of images conveying narrative, or meaning--embedded
in the choreography, and that will emerge on successive viewings, if not
the first. However, you can simply look at the patterns and enjoy the
experience as an abstract one, if that is your bent. Nonetheless, unlike
painting and sculpture, dance is never truly abstract--unless we can get
the people out of it!
At least that's what I think-Cunningham included, of course. Nanatchka PS
There is now an abstract dance thread I have found further on--see you
there?
nana...@aol.com
>David and Nanatchka, why do you make "abstract" such an narrow and
>pejorative term that you don't want to apply it to favorite
>choreographers like Cunningham and Balanchine? I consider it an
>extremely useful word
(see interesting complete post, here snipped)
You rang? Since Cunningham does not use this word in relationship to his
work, and in fact objects to it, I do not use it myself. (I realize I do
not need his permission to call his work whatever I want to, but in this
case I think we come closer to the true nature of his enterprise by
avoiding the term.) I think your marvelous defininition of abstraction,
and the experience of it, is not the general understanding of it. I do not
think the term is perjorative, merely not apt here. I also think (you
asked) that the use of the term abstract in relation to Merce suggests a
connection to Abstract Expressionism (the painting movement) that is
incorrect. Further, I think most people think of abstract as meaning
impersonal. I don't think Mr. B. had an abstract bone in his body, but I
leave that matter to someone else. Or everyone else. Best, Nanatchka
Gregory Shenaut
nana...@aol.com wrote:
: In article <32CEC8...@netdanse.com>, CB <cat...@netdanse.com> writes:
:
: >In the vernacular (as academics love to put it), the notion of *plot*
: >and *narrative* are often interchangeable. They may be considered,
: >however, as separate notions : plot being the story line versus the
: >narrative as that which presents this progressive line or certain static
: >meanings. This allows for narrative within a photographic image as well
: >as within an entire motion picture.
:
: I find this distinction a bit confusing. I do like EMForster's, though.
: Story is what happens; plot is how the author makes it happen. (Author in
: the sense of the maker of the narrative work, if we are including dance.)
: In the dances you are considering absract, there is possibly a
: narrative--or a series of images conveying narrative, or meaning--embedded
: in the choreography, and that will emerge on successive viewings, if not
: the first. However, you can simply look at the patterns and enjoy the
: experience as an abstract one, if that is your bent. Nonetheless, unlike
: painting and sculpture, dance is never truly abstract--unless we can get
: the people out of it!
In writing, one way to view plot is as cultural schemata. The basic
idea is that in a culture there is a relatively small number of plots
or story-prototypes, and that all stories must follow one of these or be
experienced as confusing and unsatisfactory. For example, a mystery
novel where the sleuth gets killed just as she is about to unmask the
bad guy would be a violation of this cultural plot concept, and the
book would not be successful as a mystery (although of course it could
succeed as something else). I'm sure that this analysis could be applied
to choreography, perhaps even more aptly than to writing.
--
Greg Shenaut -- gksh...@ucdavis.edu
CB
nana...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <32D04F...@mindspring.com>, plai...@mindspring.com > writes:
>
> >David and Nanatchka, why do you make "abstract" such an narrow and
> >pejorative term that you don't want to apply it to favorite
> >choreographers like Cunningham and Balanchine? I consider it an
> >extremely useful word
> (see interesting complete post, here snipped)
Agreed, I especially like the comments on music as abstract
expression, yet it appeals to natural hearing so how is this
abstract ?
>
> You rang? Since Cunningham does not use this word in relationship to
> his work, and in fact objects to it, I do not use it myself. (I realize
> I do not need his permission to call his work whatever I want to, but
> in this case I think we come closer to the true nature of his
> enterprise by avoiding the term.) I think your marvelous defininition
> of abstraction, and the experience of it, is not the general
> understanding of it. I do not think the term is perjorative, merely not
> apt here.
Do you have any suggestions for a better term ?
> I also think (you asked) that the use of the term abstract in
> relation to Merce suggests a connection to Abstract Expressionism (the
> painting movement) that is incorrect. Further, I think most people
> think of abstract as meaning impersonal. I don't think Mr. B. had an
> abstract bone in his body, but I leave that matter to someone else. Or
> everyone else. Best, Nanatchka
Perhaps, 'abstract' is that which leaves so much room for many
if not personal subjective interpretations, which is individual
freedom, thus litteraly up to everyone else ;)
If I'm not mistaken movement is self-sufficient for Cunningham,
I agree this doesn't have to mean 'abstract' in the common accepted
meaning of the word, if that exists !
Now musing on 'abstract' (non pejorative) and Cunningham, I'm
stumped on what would be a comparison with Cunningham / Graham,
and run the risk of repeating myself here by re-posting
my belated reponse to Ali on Graham.
Ali wrote :
> Is the Graham style most suited for the psychological dramas - and
> this type of psychology is perhaps not in fashion nowadays ?
After reading her 'memoirs', let me quote... Also if I remembered this
part, it is because it was just after she 'dramatizes' about having
refused to sign the second year of a contract to teach with the Eastman
company, she signs a 'M' puts down the pen and about faces penniless to
Manhatten. This would make a good movie. How many artists have done
that and not succeeded.... well. Then she explains :
[I have to translate this from my french copy]
I expected way more from dance, in the productions of the period, a
gesticulation of the hand didn't have any other meaning than to
represent rain falling. A certain movement of the arm suggested a
wildflower or corn growing. Why would one want to transform an arm into
corn or a hand into rain ? The hand is too admirable a thing to reduce
it to mere imitation.
end of quote:
So this doesn't seem very suited to psychological dramas as you say.
Since I read your post the mere definition of 'abstract art' has been
doing flip-flops in my mind. 'Movement for movement' does not seem
to be abstract art, it stems from the movement and not from an abstract
representation of rain by a hand.
Any feedback on this problem would be greatly appreciated !
----
Cathryn
CB
nana...@aol.com wrote:
> I find this distinction a bit confusing. I do like EMForster's,
> though. Story is what happens; plot is how the author makes it happen. > (Author in the sense of the maker of the narrative work, if we are
> including dance.)
Yes, just struggling over semantics, I prefer to distinguish
author / choreographer ... narrative / dance ... story-plot / meaning.
Three dimensions, okay sorry this gets confusing, where do the
dancers fit in ? the living material here.
> In the dances you are considering absract, there is possibly a
> narrative--or a series of images conveying narrative,
That is what I was feeling, that at no point could anything be
void or 'abstract' of narrative. (bad pun)
> meaning--embedded in the choreography, and that will emerge on
> successive viewings, if not the first. However, you can simply look at > the patterns and enjoy the experience as an abstract one, if that is
> your bent. Nonetheless, unlike painting and sculpture, dance is never > truly abstract--unless we can get the people out of it!
Good point, this helps my abstracting thoughts on dance vs other
arts thanks. Even Picasso's art could be considered non-abstract
in this vein, there is representation of human subjects.
I don't believe a formalist approach to dance to be void of meaning
nor possibly impersonal.
> At least that's what I think-Cunningham included, of course. Nanatchka > PS There is now an abstract dance thread I have found further on--see
> you there?
okay moving on,
cya
Cathryn
CB
Gregory Shenaut wrote:
>
> In writing, one way to view plot is as cultural schemata. The basic
> idea is that in a culture there is a relatively small number of plots
> or story-prototypes, and that all stories must follow one of these or
> be experienced as confusing and unsatisfactory. For example, a mystery
> novel where the sleuth gets killed just as she is about to unmask the
> bad guy would be a violation of this cultural plot concept, and the
> book would not be successful as a mystery (although of course it could
> succeed as something else). I'm sure that this analysis could be
> applied to choreography, perhaps even more aptly than to writing.
Interesting, how could one possibly violate choreographical plot ???
> --
> Greg Shenaut -- gksh...@ucdavis.edu
Cathryn
http://www.netdanse.com
amyr...@aol.com
Least favorite choreographers? Dangerous territory here for me... I
think I'll limit myself to Gus Giordano... stuff I'd excuse in a
youngster, but expect more from someone his age... anyone else suffer
through his "Seventies" or whatever he called it?
~ Amy
___________________________________________________________
Amy Reusch - eye4...@aol.com
Dance Videographer, now based in Hartford, CT
http://members.aol.com/eye4dance/home.htm
DANCE LINKS: http://www.dancer.com/dance-links
A.A.B. E-Mail Directory: http://www.dancer.com/email-links
nana...@aol.com
>If I'm not mistaken movement is self-sufficient for Cunningham,
>I agree this doesn't have to mean 'abstract' in the common accepted
>meaning of the word, if that exists !
>
>
>Now musing on 'abstract' (non pejorative) and Cunningham, I'm
>stumped on what would be a comparison with Cunningham / Graham,
I don't know if this is quite what you have in mind, Cathryn, but here is
what Merce himself says about drama:
"Drama is simply opposition--one thinks of good opposed to bad, or one
kind of thing opposed to something else. That makes drama....If you do a
light movement and then you do a strong movement, you have a kind of
opposition. Or if you have one person going one way and somebody else
going another way, you have a kind of...opposition. And if at the same
time they're doing different kinds of movement--or if they go at each
other with different kinds of movement--that seems to me to give a kind of
drama without making an issue about it."
There is also this, from the same source:
"The idea of personality not being there isn't true simply because when
the dancers do it, the in doing it take it on--it's like a second skin.":
[ The quotations are from an essay called The Way of Merce (1992), in the
collection called Merce Cunningham, Dancing in Time and Space, ed. by
RIchard Kostelanetz and fall within the copywright protection of that
volume as well as the original publisher of the essay, Dance Ink.]
CB
nana...@aol.com wrote:
>
> I don't know if this is quite what you have in mind, Cathryn, but here > is what Merce himself says about drama:
>
> "Drama is simply opposition--one thinks of good opposed to bad, or one
> kind of thing opposed to something else. That makes drama....If you do > a light movement and then you do a strong movement, you have a kind of
> opposition. Or if you have one person going one way and somebody else
> going another way, you have a kind of...opposition. And if at the same
> time they're doing different kinds of movement--or if they go at each
> other with different kinds of movement--that seems to me to give a kind > of drama without making an issue about it."
Yes, this is great, and thank you for the reference ! I'll check it out.
Cathryn
blushing about the "not making an issue about it" part.
Yet it just brings it back, drama is not the issue,
human movement is, and that doesn't mean it's abstract.
> There is also this, from the same source:
> "The idea of personality not being there isn't true simply because when
> the dancers do it, the in doing it take it on--it's like a second > > skin.":
> [ The quotations are from an essay called The Way of Merce (1992), in
> the collection called Merce Cunningham, Dancing in Time and Space, ed. > by RIchard Kostelanetz and fall within the copywright protection of
> that volume as well as the original publisher of the essay, Dance
> Ink.]
Thanks again,
shutting up now.
dbro...@aol.com
I vote for Gerald Arpino. "Sacred Grove on Mount Tamalpais" is still my
standard against which I measure all "trewly bedd bellet", as Leonard
Plinth-Garnell used to say. (Close second for Maurice Bejart, though --
with the exception of the men's dances in "Rite of Spring".)
Dudley Brooks
Run For Your Life!...it's a dance company!
San Francisco
dbr...@hills.ccsf.cc.ca.us
Dudley Brooks
Artistic Co-Director of Run For Your Life!...it's a dance company!
62 Oakwood St #4
San Francisco, CA 94110
tap...@aol.com
In article <19970107073...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
amyr...@aol.com writes:
>Least favorite choreographers? Dangerous territory here for me... I
>think I'll limit myself to Gus Giordano... stuff I'd excuse in a
>youngster, but expect more from someone his age... anyone else suffer
>through his "Seventies" or whatever he called it?
>
>~ Amy
Here I go again... My nature is to be kind and generous, YET..
I'm so glad you said this Amy. There is, in the "jazz" world, such
adulation of Gus Giordano. I will preface my remarks by saying.. When I
was young.. gosh it was before 1964, I had several master/.convention
classes with Giordano, and he did inspire me... I was just a silly little
Okie girl.. He came up to me and told me "you are good, you have talent in
jazz" My, my was that a heady experience.
Then as time passed, I took from his assistants, and I think his daughter
( could be wrong here ), anyway... the exercises in class were stupid and
WE SPENT 30 minutes on neck strength exercises...lying on the floor and
pressing the neck into the floor and YECK... this was a master class. I
could see, at that time, with my limited knowledge, that this was not
right. I don't know if the teacher was being lazy, or this is what the
Giordiano technique required, but it was painful and dumb.
As there years have stacked, and I am more mature and educated, I feel
this: Giordano is living in the style of the past. I know he's a great
guy but I really think he is one of those gifted people who did their best
work as a young man.
Hey.. a new thread... artists who did their best work before age 30.......
Ruth
( Ruth Brown)
Jeffrey E. Salzberg
>Hey.. a new thread... artists who did their best work before age 30.......
I'm...er...significantly past 30 and I think/hope that my best work is yet to
come.
Send replies to: JSalzberg[AT]uh.edu
(Substitute "@" for "[AT]")
=========================================
Visit the Houston Dance Coalition web page at http://maurice.cph.uh.edu/hdc/hdc.htm.
Ask me about the Texas-Dance, Houston-Performances, and Cichlid mailing lists.
=========================================
plai...@mindspring.com
Bang2B wrote:
>
> As this thread expands I see multiple purposes emerging. My use of the
> word "abstract" relates to the purposes of my work. I don't see dance as
> absract. The reason I am interested in this idea is almost entirely
> connected to what I want my work to be. Thus, whether I'm right or wrong
> is not important to me. I can't use categories or definitions which don't
> serve my struggle to make the kind of work that I want to make.
> Discussing what is absract and what isn't is fascinating, but in a sense
> I'm not open to persuasion. The different motivations for arguing
> aesthetics is another topic which may generate another thread. I hope so.
> David
I saw your concert at St. Marks Church last year and didn't find your
work abstract at all. I felt, that just as you indicated on another
post, you were trying to be expressive directly through movement quality
and the relationships between dancers or within the parts of a single
dancer. But I find abstract a useful term, on the lines of abstract art
for the visual arts, for other kinds of dance in which the principal
interest is in pattern or juxtaposition (which doesn't preclude getting
something more out of it at all). --Lobelia
Bang2B
Mark Miller
In article <32CEC8...@netdanse.com>, I saw:
>> Colloquially the word "abstract" often means plotless. Yet as
>> Balanchine said, "how much plot do you want"?
Just out of curiosity, when actually did he say/ write this?
Thanks,
Mark
mami...@midway.uchicago.edu
Joost pelt
I was present when Netherlands Dance Theatre danced Robbins' Moves in the
early 70's. There actually is a lot of music, the audience just can't hear
it. The dancers count like mad and all kind of rhythms are created on
stage and in the wings. It truly is one gigantic visual percussive score.
Joost
Joost pelt
I agree that Bejart's early works were much more interesting. Including a
work he created in the early 70's called "Stimmung" using a Stockhausen
score of the same name. Live musicians (singers) using some 20 "magic"
words to improvise a score, while the dancers had a similar number of
movement phrases which were used in some improvisational ways.
And of course there is his "Songs of a Wayfarer", created originially for
Bartoluzzi and Nureyev and danced by many male stars since all over the
world.
Joost