Phil Zimmermann
Carol Anne Braddock
Please read, and help if you can.
You can get PGP at my WWW HomePage.
http://www.winternet.com/~carolann
Love Always,
Carol Anne
Registered<BETSI>BEllcore Trusted Software Integrity system programmer
***********************************************************************
Carol Anne Braddock "Give me your Tired, your Poor, your old PC's..."
The TS NET REGISTERED PGP KEY NO.0C91594D
caro...@icicle.winternet.com finger caro...@winternet.com |more
***********************************************************************
My WWW Homepage Page is at: http://www.winternet.com/~carolann
On Fri, 30 Dec 1994, Michael Paul Johnson wrote:
> Christopher W. Geib <72144...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
> >Phil,
>
> >Could you repost here the address where we can send our support?
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>
> Phil Zimmermann Legal Defense Fund Appeal
>
> In November, 1976, Martin Hellman and Whitfield Diffie announced
> their discovery of public-key cryptography by beginning their paper
> with the sentence: "We stand today on the brink of a revolution in
> cryptography."
>
> We stand today on the brink of an important battle in the
> revolution they unleased. Philip Zimmermann, who encoded and released
> the most popular and successful program to flow from that discovery,
> Pretty Good Privacy ("PGP"), may be about to go to court.
>
> It has been over fourteen months now since Phil was first informed
> that he was the subject of a grand jury investigation being mounted by
> the San Jose, CA, office of US Customs into the international
> distribution, over the Internet, of the original version of the
> program. On January 12th, Phil's legal team will meet for the first
> time with William Keane, Assistant US Attorney for the Northern
> District of California, who is in charge of the grand jury
> investigation, in San Jose. An indictment, if one is pursued by the
> government after this meeting, could be handed down very shortly
> thereafter.
>
> If indicted, Phil would likely be charged with violating statute 22
> USC 2778 of the US Code, "Control of arms exports and imports." This
> is the federal statute behind the regulation known as ITAR,
> "International Traffic in Arms Regulations," 22 CFR 120.1 et seq. of
> the Code of Federal Regulations. Specifically, the indictment would
> allege that Phil violated 22 USC 2778 by exporting an item listed as a
> "munition" in 22 CFR 120.1 et seq. without having a license to do so.
> That item is cryptographic software -- PGP.
>
> At stake, of course, is far more than establishing whether Phil
> violated federal law or not. The case presents significant issues and
> will establish legal precedent, a fact known to everyone involved.
> According to his lead counsel, Phil Dubois, the US government hopes to
> establish the proposition that anyone having anything at all to do with
> an illegal export -- even someone like Phil, whose only involvement was
> writing the program and making it available to US citizens and who has
> no idea who actually exported it -- has committed a federal felony
> offense. The government also hopes to establish the proposition that
> posting a "munition" on a BBS or on the Internet is exportation. If
> the government wins its case, the judgment will have a profound
> chilling effect on the US software industry, on the free flow of
> information on the emerging global networks, and in particular upon the
> grassroots movement to put effective cryptography in the hands of
> ordinary citizens. The US government will, in effect, resurrect
> Checkpoint Charlie -- on the Information Superhighway.
>
> By now, most of us who are reading this know about Phil and the
> case, whether by having the program and reading the doc files or by
> seeing reports in the Wall Steet Journal, Time, Scientific American,
> the New York Times, Wired, US News and World Report, and hundreds of
> other news outlets; on Usenet groups like talk.crypto.politics or
> alt.security.pgp; or by listening to Phil give talks such as the one he
> gave at CFP '94 in Chicago. We know that PGP has made great strides
> since version 1.0, and is now a sophisticated encryption and
> key-management package which has become the de facto standard in both
> micro and mainframe environments. We know that Phil and the PGP
> development team successfully negotiated a commercial license with
> Viacrypt, and, through the efforts of MIT, a noncommercial license for
> PGP with RSA Data Security, the holders of the patent on the RSA
> algorithm on which PGP is based, thus freeing the program from the
> shadow of allegations of patent infringement. We know that programs
> such as PGP represent one of our best bulwarks in the Information Age
> against the intrusions of public and private information gatherers. We
> know that PGP is a key tool in insuring that the "Information
> Superhighway" will open the world to us, without opening us to the
> world.
>
> What we may not all know is the price Phil has had to pay for his
> courage and willingness to challenge the crypto status quo. For years
> now Phil has been the point man in the ongoing campaign for freely
> available effective cryptography for the everyday computer user. The
> costs, personal and professional, to him have been great. He wrote the
> original code for PGP 1.0 by sacrificing months of valuable time from
> his consulting career and exhausting his savings. He continues to
> devote large amounts of his time to testifying before Congress, doing
> public speaking engagements around the world, and agitating for
> "cryptography for the masses," largely at his own expense. He is now
> working, still for free, on the next step in PGP technology, PGP Phone,
> which will turn every PC with a sound card and a modem into a secure
> telephone. And we know that, just last month, he was searched and
> interrogated in the absence of counsel by US Customs officials upon his
> return from a speaking tour in Europe.
>
> Phil's legal team consists of his lead counsel, Philip Dubois of
> Boulder, CO; Kenneth Bass of Venable, Baetjer, Howard & Civiletti, in
> Washington, DC, first counsel for intelligence policy for the Justice
> Department under President Carter; Eben Moglen, professor of law at
> Columbia and Harvard Universities; Curt Karnow, a former assistant US
> attorney and intellectual property law specialist at Landels, Ripley &
> Diamond in San Francisco; and Thomas Nolan, noted criminal defense
> attorney in Menlo Park.
>
> While this is a stellar legal team, what makes it even more
> extraordinary is that several of its members have given their time for
> free to Phil's case. Still, while their time has been donated so far,
> other expenses -- travel, lodging, telephone, and other costs -- have
> fallen to Phil. If the indictment is handed down, time and costs will
> soar, and the members of the team currently working pro bono may no
> longer be able to. Justice does not come cheap in this country, but
> Phil deserves the best justice money can buy him.
>
> This is where you and I come in. Phil Dubois estimates that the
> costs of the case, leaving aside the lawyers' fees, will run from
> US$100,000 - $150,000. If Phil's team must charge for their services,
> the total cost of the litigation may range as high as US$300,000. The
> legal defense fund is already several thousand dollars in the red and
> the airline tickets to San Jose haven't even been purchased yet.
>
> In September, 1993 I wrote a letter urging us all to support Phil,
> shortly after the first subpoenas were issued by Customs. Today the
> need is greater than ever, and I'm repeating the call.
>
> Phil has assumed the burden and risk of being the first to develop
> truly effective tools with which we all might secure our communications
> against prying eyes, in a political environment increasingly hostile to
> such an idea -- an environment in which Clipper chips and digital
> telephony bills are our own government's answer to our concerns. Now
> is the time for us all to step forward and help shoulder that burden
> with him.
>
> It is time more than ever. I call on all of us, both here in the
> US and abroad, to help defend Phil and perhaps establish a
> groundbreaking legal precedent. PGP now has an installed base of
> hundreds of thousands of users. PGP works. It must -- no other
> "crypto" package, of the hundreds available on the Internet and BBS's
> worldwide, has ever been subjected to the governmental attention PGP
> has. How much is PGP worth to you? How much is the complete security
> of your thoughts, writings, ideas, communications, your life's work,
> worth to you? The price of a retail application package?i Send it.
> More? Send it. Whatever you can spare: send it.
>
> A legal trust fund, the Philip Zimmermann Defense Fund (PZDF), has
> been established with Phil Dubois in Boulder. Donations will be
> accepted in any reliable form, check, money order, or wire transfer,
> and in any currency, as well as by credit card.
>
> You may give anonymously or not, but PLEASE - give generously. If
> you admire PGP, what it was intended to do and the ideals which
> animated its creation, express your support with a contribution to this
> fund.
>
> * * *
>
> Here are the details:
>
> To send a check or money order by mail, make it payable, NOT to Phil
> Zimmermann, but to "Philip L. Dubois, Attorney Trust Account." Mail the
> check or money order to the following address:
>
> Philip Dubois
> 2305 Broadway
> Boulder, CO USA 80304
> (Phone #: 303-444-3885)
>
> To send a wire transfer, your bank will need the following
> information:
>
> Bank: VectraBank
> Routing #: 107004365
> Account #: 0113830
> Account Name: "Philip L. Dubois, Attorney Trust Account"
>
> Now here's the neat bit. You can make a donation to the PZDF by
> Internet mail on your VISA or MasterCard. Worried about snoopers
> intercepting your e-mail? Don't worry -- use PGP.
>
> Simply compose a message in plain ASCII text giving the following:
> the recipient ("Philip L. Dubois, Attorney Trust Account"); the bank
> name of your VISA or MasterCard; the name which appears on it; a tele-
> phone number at which you can be reached in case of problems; the card
> number; date of expiry; and, most important, the amount you wish to do-
> nate. (Make this last item as large as possible.) Then use PGP to en-
> crypt and ASCII-armor the message using Phil Dubois's public key, en-
> closed below. (You can also sign the message if you like.) E-mail
> the output file to Phil Dubois (dub...@csn.org). Please be sure to use
> a "Subject:" line reading something like "Phil Zimmermann Defense Fund"
> so he'll know to decrypt it right away.
>
> Bona fides: My relation to Phil Z. is that of a long-time user and
> advocate of PGP and a personal friend. For over a year I moderated the
> (no longer published) digest, Info-PGP, on the old lucpul.it.luc.edu site
> here at Loyola. I am in no way involved with the administration of the
> PZDF. I volunteer my time on its behalf.
> Phil Dubois is Phil Z.'s lawyer and lead counsel in the Customs case.
> He administers the PZDF.
> To obtain a copy of my public key (with which you can verify the
> signature on this doc), you have a number of options:
> - Use the copy which I will append below.
> - Send mail to me at hmi...@luc.edu with the "Subject:" line
> reading "send pubkey"
> - Get it by anon ftp at ftp://ftp.math.luc.edu/pub/hmiller/pubkey.hm
> - Obtain it from an Internet PGP keyserver machine such as
> pgp-pub...@pgp.ai.mit.edu. Just send a mail message to this
> address with the "Subject:" field "GET hmiller". Other keyserver
> machines on the Net which accept the same message format (and
> automatically synchronize keyrings with each other every 10 minutes or
> so) include:
>
> pgp-pub...@pgp.mit.edu
> pgp-pub...@demon.co.uk
> pgp-pub...@pgp.ox.ac.uk
> pgp-pub...@ext221.sra.co.jp
> pgp-pub...@kub.nl
> pgp-pub...@pgp.iastate.edu
> pgp-pub...@dsi.unimi.it
> pgp-pub...@pgp.dhp.com
>
> You can verify my public key by calling me at 312-338-2689 (home)
> or 312-508-2727 (office) and letting me read you my key fingerprint
> ("pgp -kvc hmiller" after you have put my key on your pubring.pgp keyring).
> I include it also in my .sig, below, if that's good enough for you.
> You might also note that Phil Zimmermann has signed my public key.
> Hopefully he is Node #1 in your Web-of-Trust! His key is available on
> the net keyservers and in the 'keys.asc' file in the PGP distribution
> packages.
> Phil Dubois's pubkey can also be obtained from the keyservers, if
> you prefer that source to the text below, and from 'keys.asc'. Phil Z.
> has signed his key as well.
>
> Here is Phil Dubois's public key:
>
> - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 2.7
>
> mQCNAiyaTboAAAEEAL3DOizygcxAe6OyfcuMZh2XnyfqmLKFDAoX0/FJ4+d2frw8
> 5TuXc/k5qfDWi+AQCdJaNVT8jlg6bS0HD55gLoV+b6VZxzIpHWKqXncA9iudfZmR
> rtx4Es82n8pTBtxa7vcQPhCXfjfl+lOMrICkRuD/xB/9X1/XRbZ7C+AHeDONAAUR
> tCFQaGlsaXAgTC4gRHVib2lzIDxkdWJvaXNAY3NuLm9yZz6JAJUCBRAsw4TxZXmE
> uMepZt0BAT0OA/9IoCBZLFpF9lhV1+epBi49hykiHefRdQwbHmLa9kO0guepdkyF
> i8kqJLEqPEUIrRtiZVHiOLLwkTRrFHV7q9lAuETJMDIDifeV1O/TGVjMiIFGKOuN
> dzByyidjqdlPFtPZtFbzffi9BomTb8O3xm2cBomxxqsV82U3HDdAXaY5Xw==
> =5uit
> - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>
> Here is my (Hugh Miller's) public key:
>
> - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 2.6.2
>
> mQCNAy7frrEAAAEEALzOAQt+eWHzXSDLRgJaQMQ7Uju1xrD9mXAZGAG1GmiTNjKl
> wK68qOXrwJvnH1BmGtg8GGv53nTeabltpn5crsQVFm+0623M56/T7SOeUBWxxoa0
> vvqAA8sJ6ac1/MXY9KIgqxu8Mu6Qwf68C4OnwCbE7T71bi+fjdEdYC5Hk8UpAAUR
> tB1IdWdoIE1pbGxlciA8aG1pbGxlckBsdWMuZWR1PokAlQMFEC7ryVNleYS4x6lm
> 3QEBW6YD/2IOIZX9FOggNyemvPwM/EN86KW74ZGuYuTIfPCrvOMy8pFqfE33Bw93
> UkyIDj1Yh/nDlclEOO/J0tyngPn2BD2vMtaKIGRhVjnoxQc3BfzdjJ2nnHoFzAjz
> 0MBxYthysmWYsyF8cQxST6LZLITKkf41dti8SVKYVRWIgkyub02HiQCVAwUQLt/F
> oNEdYC5Hk8UpAQHD1wP9GdN9OHAKkIRsHeHy0wsEkI4Emb/bHiU+W59Zw7NPWsWF
> 3WTT1z8GKNToQLUdysbbJuSSk3rD3F4SNGJ+KPjR4674pmEfCVVP8cQPXEl4a3Zs
> xSLWNI6rG3muUAfLdyZiFP08NthOVlP2h1aOLCqIgkjEYMfQNEgkefBRJd6JywI=
> =hWCA
> - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>
> * * *
>
> This campaign letter will be posted in a number of Usenet groups.
> I will also be turning it into a FAQ-formatted document, which will be
> posted monthly in the relevant groups and which will be available by
> anonymous ftp from ftp://ftp.math.luc.edu/pub/hmiller/PGP/pzdf.FAQ. If
> you come upon, or up with, any other ways in which we can help raise funds
> for Phil, drop me a line at hmi...@luc.edu and let me know, so that I
> can put it in the FAQ.
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.2
>
> iQCVAwUBLvFO3tEdYC5Hk8UpAQF6IwQAp3Ig71gGRj/dDGXDBdqj55uMQQsywhi2
> pEzh0arfrRonqMX0UleysqYqjcUtm0rvbrXoYUy8a9vJzj4Wuyf1dQ6WyqBkcmOX
> z7RGtoLVxsfTjNNTrY0810SXx/yOMYtBW7mq+zNmqEykGFZTdfsVKFEyFw6AJ//B
> Ah+LQNb01Xo=
> =aW2m
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> --
> Hugh Miller, Ph.D. Voice: 312-508-2727
> Asst. Professor of Philosophy FAX: 312-508-2292
> Loyola University Chicago Home: 312-338-2689
> 6525 N. Sheridan Rd. E-mail: hmi...@luc.edu
> Chicago, IL 60626 WWW: http://www.luc.edu/~hmiller
> PGP Public Key 4793C529: FC D2 08 BB 0C 6D CB C8 0B F9 BA 55 62 19 40 21
>
>
>
Mr.Fish
>
> This account has been deleted for breach of our AUP.
>
> Questions, comments, problems or general bitching, please reply to this
> message.
>
> --
> Mike Horwath IRC: Drechsau LIFE: Lover drec...@winternet.com
Looking at the groups that you cross-posted, I sure as heck would like to
know what she did to get kicked off?;) What the heck do you have to
apologize for Mike? Unless you might of been involved too?;) I told you
you've been working too hard.
Come on now bud, give us the lowdown!
Michelle Anne
Horwath) wrote:
>We wish to apologize for Carol Anne's actions while with Winternet.
>
>This account has been deleted for breach of our AUP.
>
>Questions, comments, problems or general bitching, please reply to this
>message.
>
>--
>Mike Horwath IRC: Drechsau LIFE: Lover drec...@winternet.com
>Twin Cities area Internet Access: 612-941-9177 for more info
>Founding member of Minnesota Coalition for Internet Accessibility
What did she do? I didn't see anything that requires an apology or that
warranted her account to be deleted.
Mike Horwath
Jack Ferman
provided a valuable service to those of us who question authority.
According to Horwath's AUP policy I suppose winternet would have helped
Tricky Dick cover up his 18 minutes.
In article <3ei10l$m...@blackice.winternet.com>, drec...@winternet.com
(Mike Horwath) wrote:
> Founding member of Minnesota Coalition for Internet Accessibility
--
Jack Ferman ferm...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
Minneapolis, MN
Robert A. Hayden
organization, otherwise there would be a whole bunch of first amendment
issues in there.
I'd still like to see this AUP and see it demonstrated that she did
somehting wrong, but from the looks of it, they are still in the process
of WRITING the AUP for this situation.
--
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I am Pentium of Borg
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> you will be approximated
-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Jon Ribbens
Err, people, look at the Newsgroups: line. Although personally I would
very much support Mr Zimmermann (however his name's spelled ;-) ), that
article was entirely inappropriate to nearly all of the groups it was
posted to.
<shrug> Maybe Winternet's AUP says that your account will be pulled if
you post material inappropriate to the newsgroups that it appears in.
If so, then IMHO this is an excellent policy on the part of Winternet
and they should be commended.
On the other hand, if they pulled her account simply 'cos they don't
like Phil Z., they should be flamed off the face of the earth <grin>
Jon
--
// Jon Ribbens // Email: es...@csv.warwick.ac.uk or j.ri...@warwick.ac.uk //
// Term time: 17 Sydenham Drive, Leamington Spa, Warwickshire CV31 1NJ // //
// Home: 59 Upper Belmont Road, Chesham, Bucks HP5 2DD // //
Leonard
: Lets hear Horwath's AUP policy on throttling free speech. Carol Ann
: provided a valuable service to those of us who question authority.
Jack-
Was your statement, rich in assumptions called for? Mike did invite you
to e-mail him with your questions.
Having looked at Carol Anne's home (coffee, etc.) pages I am comfortable
with the sysadmins statement that it was not the content that led to her
account cancelation.
THe problem was with Carol Anne's behavior. Each sysadmin sets up
acceptable use guidlines for his site. If you're comfortable withthem,
you sign up. As long as there are multiple ISP's available AND the
content of one's posts are not the issue, how can you in clear
conscience cry "censorship"?
If sys admins did not inforce AUP's we would have a net plagued with
hundreds of messgaes of spam per day, forged posts, intrusive and
insulting e-mail, mailbots and cancelbots roaming the net, and enough
other noise that the system would be useless.
Let's support the rational and open sysadmins in keeping the net
functional, please.
Leonard
And to your post, a little weak in logic and facts, I'd say --
: According to Horwath's AUP policy I suppose winternet would have helped
: Tricky Dick cover up his 18 minutes.
Why do you suppose that?
: In article <3ei10l$m...@blackice.winternet.com>, drec...@winternet.com
: (Mike Horwath) wrote:
: > This account has been deleted for breach of our AUP.
: >
: > Questions, comments, problems or general bitching, please reply to this
: > message.
Sounds fair to me. Jack,do you _know_ something that the rest ofus don't?
Leonard
------------------------------------ ---------------------------------
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Paul Dokas
Jack, did you even try to find out what happened before you posted this
response? In a post to one of winternet's newsgroups, Mike explained
that Carol Anne had mini-spammed (~30 groups) twice. She was warned about
this. And she did it again. Mike then pulled her account. You could have
emailed Mike privately if you were concerned about Winternet's AUP instead
of posting trash.
Or are you trying to say that spamming (albeit ~30 groups) is ok?
paul
--
#include <stddisclaimer.h> | Paul Dokas
Fnord! Don't let the Gnomes get you. | p...@winternet.com
S. M. Slamon
: Lets hear Horwath's AUP policy on throttling free speech. Carol Ann
: provided a valuable service to those of us who question authority.
: According to Horwath's AUP policy I suppose winternet would have helped
: Tricky Dick cover up his 18 minutes.
Jack, whatever Winternet's AUP was, it was agreed to by Caroline when she
paid for her account. She knew what the terms were up front and decided
to violate them (aparrantly).
Whether or not *you* agree with the policy is neither here nor there.
You are not a member there, and have no claim against them.
--
S. M. Slamon - ecle...@netcom.com - TIP #157 / DoD #1420
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Eclectic Engineering - P.O. Box 745 - Watertown, MA 02272-0745
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Netcom -- "Your breakdown lane on the Information Superhighway!"
Peter Simons
> >We wish to apologize for Carol Anne's actions while with Winternet.
>
> What did she do?
She forwarded a very long article that was clearly
inappropriate for these newsgroups. According to
the postmaster, this hasn't been the first time
she did that.
It is possible that someone cancelled the article
before it reached our site but I saw it here.
Michelle Anne
Michelle Anne
Slamon) wrote:
>On Sat, 7 Jan 1995 04:04:47 GMT, ferm...@maroon.tc.umn.edu wrote:
>
>: Lets hear Horwath's AUP policy on throttling free speech. Carol Ann
>: provided a valuable service to those of us who question authority.
>: According to Horwath's AUP policy I suppose winternet would have helped
>: Tricky Dick cover up his 18 minutes.
>
>Jack, whatever Winternet's AUP was, it was agreed to by Caroline when she
>paid for her account. She knew what the terms were up front and decided
>to violate them (aparrantly).
>
>Whether or not *you* agree with the policy is neither here nor there.
>You are not a member there, and have no claim against them.
When the sysadmin of winternet made it public, he opened himself for
criticism.
pdthomas
>
> In Article <3emmaj$7...@blackice.winternet.com>, p...@winternet.com (Paul
> Dokas) wrote:
> >response? In a post to one of winternet's newsgroups, Mike explained
> >that Carol Anne had mini-spammed (~30 groups) twice. She was warned about
> >this. And she did it again. Mike then pulled her account. You could have
> >emailed Mike privately if you were concerned about Winternet's AUP instead
> >of posting trash.
>
> second posting. Also, I counted only 13 newsgroups involved, not thirty.
>
> Finally, if you are going to publicly chastise someone for doing something,
> you should have the integrity not to redirect followups to alt.dev.null.
> | M. Steiner | ____ Don't assume I'm straight. /\ |
> | ste...@best.com | \ / Don't assume I'm not. / \ |
> | | \/ ~~~~ |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
I think Mike considerd this an internal matter that he only had to
explain to Winternet users, and I agree.
Paul
Michelle Anne
<pdth...@winternet.com> wrote:
>ste...@best.com (Michelle Anne) wrote:
>>
>> In Article <3emmaj$7...@blackice.winternet.com>, p...@winternet.com (Paul
>> Dokas) wrote:
>> >Jack, did you even try to find out what happened before you posted this
>> >response? In a post to one of winternet's newsgroups, Mike explained
>> >that Carol Anne had mini-spammed (~30 groups) twice. She was warned about
>> >this. And she did it again. Mike then pulled her account. You could have
>> >emailed Mike privately if you were concerned about Winternet's AUP instead
>> >of posting trash.
>>
>> When I asked Mike privately, he didn't say anything about any warnings or
>> second posting. Also, I counted only 13 newsgroups involved, not thirty.
>
>explain to Winternet users, and I agree.
>Paul
Then why did he make a public post to 13 newsgroups that he had terminated
her account if he considered it an internal matter?
Bruce VonAhsen
Distribution:
Jack Ferman (ferm...@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: Lets hear Horwath's AUP policy on throttling free speech. Carol Ann
: provided a valuable service to those of us who question authority.
This is painfull for me. I am a good friend of Carolanne's, and we are
both members of the gender dysphoria group at th U of M. If Carol Anne
spammed 30 groups - with two warnings - then Mike's actions seem
justified. I know that she believes that everyone at alt.transgendered
should be as into pgp as she is. I don't like this one damn bit. I am
getting more and more uncomfortable as i write this, but i suspect that
it _was_ Carol Anne's inappropriate behavior that has brought this on.
But i don't know what happend and i feel like i'm talking behind
someone's back.
i think this thread should end here.
--
,/| ..._ .
brenda is /, \'. _-' \
br...@sparc.isl.net { \ `_- `
Rochester MN `;;' ;
(,_..., bev (,..___ ,
Peter Simons
> Lets hear Horwath's AUP policy on throttling free speech. Carol Ann
> provided a valuable service to those of us who question authority.
This issue is not about free speech but about
people misusing the net. Carol Ann did not provide
a valuable service but she forwarded a lengthy
text to several highly inappropriate newsgroups.
Her intention was probably not to help Phillip
Zimmermann (those who know PGP a bit will
hopefully agree that I would be the last person
not to appreciate help for Phillip) but to annoy
some people.
I am glad that Winternet reacts that responsible.
If every service provider would kick out the
jerks, rather than blindly taking any money they
can possibly get, the net would be a much
friendlier place.
Please send any followups via private e-mail and
NOT to all those newsgroups again. Thanks!
Peter Simons
Justin Newton
Paul Dokas <p...@winternet.com> wrote:
>
>Jack, did you even try to find out what happened before you posted this
>response? In a post to one of winternet's newsgroups, Mike explained
>that Carol Anne had mini-spammed (~30 groups) twice. She was warned about
>this. And she did it again. Mike then pulled her account. You could have
>emailed Mike privately if you were concerned about Winternet's AUP instead
>of posting trash.
>
>Or are you trying to say that spamming (albeit ~30 groups) is ok?
>
likes for the response to be longer than the post ;)
Pardon me for one cotton picking minute here, but who are _you_
to tell Mike how to run his business? I am the system admin for a
provider, and I am very upset at your response. Mike is running a
business. Its his business, and not yours. If you don't like the way he
runs his business don't use it. Use someone else. Are you one of Mike's
users? It doesn't appear so. If you were then MAYBE you would have a
point, and this would only be if you never saw an AUP before you signed
up. If you did see one, and signed it, then well, you could certainly
still complain about it, but your position would be much weakened. As it
is, you have no position.
Do I tell you how to do your job? Do I tell you how you should
run whatever organization it is that you are associated with? I don't
believe so. If I don't like the way you do things, I, as a consumer,
will go somewhere else. Any response is greatly greatly appreciated.
justin "welcome to america where I can run my business however I want to"
newton
p.s. Free speech is free in public areas, if you come into my office and
spout off about something I have no interest in I can have you removed,
if you do it in the town square I can't, end of story. (This is a
paraphrase from a mailing list I am on, my apologies if I mangled your idea)
Chris Sullivan
: Err, people, look at the Newsgroups: line. Although personally I would
: very much support Mr Zimmermann (however his name's spelled ;-) ), that
: article was entirely inappropriate to nearly all of the groups it was
: posted to.
Seems to me, as an impartial observer to this mess, that if the reason why
this individual's account was pulled was because of posts into "inapproprate
newsgroups", then anyone who posts to this entire thread is guilty of the
same transgression.
I, for one, don't give a #(%*@. There has been more damage done by
continued discussion of this topic in the newsgroups I read (namely
alt.dreams.lucid) than by any alleged transgression by the original
poster. The only newsgroup that seems appropraite here is mn.general,
which is, I assume, the general discussion board in question for the area
that this ISV serves.
In other words, please obey the Followup-To line. And please, no more
posts to inappropriate newsgroups. I want to get back into lucid dreams.
Ahhhhhhhh. (as he slips into unconciousness)
---
Chris Sullivan fee...@kaiwan.com 714-648-9433 (Voice Mail)
Kaiwan Customer Service 714-638-2139 (9 - 5:30pm)
S. J. Fischer
: both members of the gender dysphoria group at th U of M. If Carol Anne
Ummmm......Oh never mind.
Michelle Anne
Comstock) wrote:
>In article <3f1ejg$a...@proteon.inet-serv.com>,
>correct term for something.
Nope; it is a medical term.
>Please give a simple answer, I don't want a lesson in latin or greek or
>whatever the base language of the word is.
It refers to people whose sexual identity (not sexual orientation) is not
the same as the sex of their bodies. The usual cure for extreme cases of
gender dysphoria is commonly called a "sex change operation," like the ones
had by people like Wendy Carlos, Renee Richards, and Tula.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| M. Steiner | ____ Don't assume I'm straight. /\ |
| ste...@best.com | \ / Don't assume I'm not. / \ |
| | \/ ~~~~ |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Comstock
I missed this on. What *IS* gender dysphoria ? It sounds like a politcally
correct term for something.
Please give a simple answer, I don't want a lesson in latin or greek or
Gerry Scott-Moore
: I missed this on. What *IS* gender dysphoria ? It sounds like a politcally
: correct term for something.
This is what I like best! Any phrase that is unknown MUST be politically
correct. When in doubt--use a slogan! When unsure--take a political
stance.
How funny.
--
---------------------------------------------------
| Gerry | Samba salvara' |
| ----- | o mundo! |
| g...@netcom.com | Aliso Viejo, California |
---------------------------------------------------
Bryce Maryott
: I missed this on. What *IS* gender dysphoria ? It sounds like a
politcally
: correct term for something.
Generally speaking, it's the "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body."
thoughts, and related feelings...
--
I wonder how many "kill" files I'm in? I keep asking, but those
Lewis De Payne
:
: Ahh, but she HADN'T paid for her account in ten weeks, or at least so her
: sysop said in email to her that got Cc:ed to the Cypherpunks mailing list.
:
: If Cypherpunks were a newsgroup rather than a mailing list, I'd nominate
: Carol Anne Braddock for Usenet Kook of the Month, based on what she's
: been posting. People are comparing her to Lance Detweiler, who suffers
: from the comparison. Alas, it's just a mailing list.
Hell Alan... I nominate you for KOTM. Especially after I called your
residence on the phone, spoke with your wife, and then asked her to put
you on the phone. You sounded like such a hurt puppy before hanging up...
knowing that I had used Secrets of Speed Seduction on her.
--
"Mum's the word" - Justin Petersen || cc: Kennie G. McGuire, SA, FBI, LA CA
"Did you use SAS?" - Terry Atchley || Kathleen "Hottub" Carson, SA, FBI
"I am not a crook" - Richard Nixon || Behave - or I'll tell Janet Reno!
Don Whiteside
: Jeffrey Comstock (jr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: : I missed this on. What *IS* gender dysphoria ? It sounds like a
: politcally
: : correct term for something.
: Generally speaking, it's the "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body."
: thoughts, and related feelings...
After god knows how many messages, this _finally_ has some remote place
in alt.sex. Still doesn't belong in dreams, though, so I trimmed the
followup line. How about everyone else does the same?
Charles Gimon
: Generally speaking, it's the "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body."
: thoughts, and related feelings...
(quoting the mom on Absolutely Fabulous:)
"Just the one, dear?"
--
*********************************************************************
Paranoia! Even Goya... gim...@skypoint.com
couldn't draw ya... --T. Pynchon Minneapolis MN USA
*********************************************************************
Last Call Junior >>> 612-861-7094 <<< A cyber-rumpus-room
Mercury Vapor
: Hell Alan... I nominate you for KOTM. Especially after I called your
: residence on the phone, spoke with your wife, and then asked her to put
: you on the phone.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Was she slappin her flaps to the beat of your heart?
: You sounded like such a hurt puppy before hanging up...
: knowing that I had used Secrets of Speed Seduction on her.
Did you get it on tape? post a .wav file for all of us to
devour...hahahahaha!!
> ! <
Dr. A.M.Bain
Br...@ix.netcom.com "Bryce Maryott" writes:
> Jeffrey Comstock (jr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
> : I missed this on. What *IS* gender dysphoria ? It sounds like a
> politcally
> : correct term for something.
>
Dysphoria is a technical term meaning "confusion" - comes from
the Greek. Restate as "Gender confusion" and you got it in
English.
--
Please send E-mail to:
gu...@nellie2.demon.co.uk
[Mailbox shared with various worthy causes - IMHO]
"Divinity is better than Dentistry?"
dan burgin
Carol Ann!!
Go into the light. Carol Ann!!!
AHHH!!
--DAN
Joan Tine
: In article <3f6dm7$q...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
: Br...@ix.netcom.com "Bryce Maryott" writes:
: > Jeffrey Comstock (jr...@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: > : I missed this on. What *IS* gender dysphoria ? It sounds like a
: > politcally
: > : correct term for something.
: >
: Dysphoria is a technical term meaning "confusion" - comes from
: the Greek. Restate as "Gender confusion" and you got it in
: English.
Dysphoria is to euphoria as dystopia to eutopia, dysphemism
to euphemism, etc. It comes from Modern Latin, from Greek.
The prefix _dys_ means "hard" and the root of phoria is _pherein_,
"to bear". "A generalized feeling of ill-being; esp. an abnormal
feeling of anxiety, discontent, physical discomfort, etc."
Joan
wombat [altered < Austrialian native name] any of a family
(Phascolomidae) of burrowing marsupials resembling small bears,
found in Australia, Tasmania, and several Pacific islands. (2'-
4' long).
Tasmanian Wombat!!
--
--
Wheel & Peditate, Attys at Law
Priscilla Asagiri Fashions in Fiberglass
Bitten Batten Barton Burton and Powell, Luggage Makers
Dr. A.M.Bain
I was trying to keep it simple: 'twas my dictionary definition.
The more detailed one I just read may be more accurate, in the TG
of any kind is "hard to bear".
I *do* know that UK shrinks use the term in the "confusion" sense
for convenience.