W10 wifi, aaaaaargh!

[Peter Young]

I have a problem with two W10 computers refusing to connect to the
Internet or other computers on my network. I think this started after one
of those <expletive deleted> W10 updates.

I have three main computers and lot of other stuff on the network (more
below), all connected either by Ethernet or wi-fi to a Netgear router.

The computers are:

This ARMX6 connected by Ethernet. This is my main computer.

A RISCBook laptop running VRPC connected by Ethernet. It's a laptop rather
than a big machine as my work-space is cramped, but I use it as my main
Windows computer to do things that RISC OS can't.

A RISCBook Go, also running VRPC, which I mainly use when I'm away from
home, as it's so small. This needs wi-fi when it'll let me!

Also connected by Ethernet are a printer and a Hive hub. Connected
wirelessly are a wi-fi extender, my son's laptop, and a PVR. I can also
connect wirelessly from my mobile and pad, both Android.

Recently the RISCBook Go won't connect wirelessly. The icon on the task
bar tells me that it's connected, but there's no internet connection. It
also won't connect to the ARMX6. I've searched on-line for how to make it
connect, but none of the methods I found have any effect.

This morning, out of curiosity, I had a go at seeing what the larger
RISCBook would do after I'd unplugged the Ethernet cable. Initially it
showed a full connection, but this then rapidly reverted to "connected to
network, no internet" exactly as on the RISC Book Go.

I imagine that there's some recondite setting in Windows that's preventing
the internet from connecting, but I would have no idea what or where this
may be, or how one should change it. If anyone can point me in the right
direction they will earn my gratitude, and perhaps a drink or two if I'm
able, not that it's likely, to get to any of the RISC OS shows.

I may have to get Andrew at RComp to help me out, but as he's busy and not
always well, I'd like to try here first.

Best wishes,

Peter.


--
Peter Young (zfc Hg) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pny...@ormail.co.uk

[Chris Hughes]

In message <9b5a361f5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>

Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> I have a problem with two W10 computers refusing to connect to the
> Internet or other computers on my network. I think this started after one
> of those <expletive deleted> W10 updates.

To be honest this is unlikely to be an update issue.

> I have three main computers and lot of other stuff on the network (more
> below), all connected either by Ethernet or wi-fi to a Netgear router.

> The computers are:

> This ARMX6 connected by Ethernet. This is my main computer.

> A RISCBook laptop running VRPC connected by Ethernet. It's a laptop rather
> than a big machine as my work-space is cramped, but I use it as my main
> Windows computer to do things that RISC OS can't.

> A RISCBook Go, also running VRPC, which I mainly use when I'm away from
> home, as it's so small. This needs wi-fi when it'll let me!

> Also connected by Ethernet are a printer and a Hive hub. Connected
> wirelessly are a wi-fi extender, my son's laptop, and a PVR. I can also
> connect wirelessly from my mobile and pad, both Android.

> Recently the RISCBook Go won't connect wirelessly. The icon on the task
> bar tells me that it's connected, but there's no internet connection. It
> also won't connect to the ARMX6. I've searched on-line for how to make it
> connect, but none of the methods I found have any effect.

try going to Win10 Settings then internet and look at the graphic showing
the link to show which side of the link is broken.

You could also try the inbuilt troubleshooter (its an option on same page.

You do not say which firewall you are using, this can cuase issues if
something has changed.

> This morning, out of curiosity, I had a go at seeing what the larger
> RISCBook would do after I'd unplugged the Ethernet cable. Initially it
> showed a full connection, but this then rapidly reverted to "connected to
> network, no internet" exactly as on the RISC Book Go.

> I imagine that there's some recondite setting in Windows that's preventing
> the internet from connecting, but I would have no idea what or where this
> may be, or how one should change it. If anyone can point me in the right
> direction they will earn my gratitude, and perhaps a drink or two if I'm
> able, not that it's likely, to get to any of the RISC OS shows.

[snip]



--
Chris Hughes

[Peter Young]

On 8 Dec 2019 Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <9b5a361f5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,

> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>> I have a problem with two W10 computers refusing to connect to the
>> Internet or other computers on my network. I think this started
>> after one of those <expletive deleted> W10 updates.

>> I have three main computers and lot of other stuff on the network
>> (more below), all connected either by Ethernet or wi-fi to a
>> Netgear router.

>> The computers are:

>> This ARMX6 connected by Ethernet. This is my main computer.

>> A RISCBook laptop running VRPC connected by Ethernet. It's a laptop
>> rather than a big machine as my work-space is cramped, but I use
>> it as my main Windows computer to do things that RISC OS can't.

I'm sorry to have been late replying. As I said to Chris I've had a hectic
few days, in a good way.

> If it were me faced with something like this I would look first at
> the ethernet computers not the wi-fi ones. It is likely to be a
> common issue casing all problems so look at the simpler stuff first.

> Have you tried ipconfig on the ethernet laptop? Are the values
> reasonable for your network?

> In the search box type comm - it should then offer you Command
> prompt. Run command prompt and in the window type ipconfig <return>

Yes, that looks fine as far as it goes for the wired connection, as I
would expect. However, it shows two wireless connections which are both
disconnected.

> If so ping the default gateway - probably something like ping
> 192,168.0.1

> What did you get?

Sent 4, Received 4, lost 0

Then I fired up the unwired laptop, and to my amazement the internet is
now available! I'm flabbergasted, and ipconfig and ping work correctly. As
far as I know, I've done nothing to make that happen.

I've made sure that this laptop has its address reserved in the router,
and will cross my fingers that this isn't a temporary thing.

I'm reminded of a bad taste joke, which I'm allowed to tell as my late
wife had MS:

Q: What is the difference between MS as in Microsoft and MS as in multiple
sclerosis?

A: One is a widespread affliction which makes it difficult to do everyday
tasks, and the other is a neurological disease.

[Peter Young]

On 8 Dec 2019 Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <9b5a361f5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>> I have a problem with two W10 computers refusing to connect to the
>> Internet or other computers on my network. I think this started after one
>> of those <expletive deleted> W10 updates.

> To be honest this is unlikely to be an update issue.

Sorry for the slow reply. Retirement for me is a very busy condition.

I just wondered, as the problem is new and started happening after an
update. You understand these things much better than I do.

>> I have three main computers and lot of other stuff on the network (more
>> below), all connected either by Ethernet or wi-fi to a Netgear router.

>> The computers are:

>> This ARMX6 connected by Ethernet. This is my main computer.

>> A RISCBook laptop running VRPC connected by Ethernet. It's a laptop rather
>> than a big machine as my work-space is cramped, but I use it as my main
>> Windows computer to do things that RISC OS can't.

>> A RISCBook Go, also running VRPC, which I mainly use when I'm away from
>> home, as it's so small. This needs wi-fi when it'll let me!

>> Also connected by Ethernet are a printer and a Hive hub. Connected
>> wirelessly are a wi-fi extender, my son's laptop, and a PVR. I can also
>> connect wirelessly from my mobile and pad, both Android.

>> Recently the RISCBook Go won't connect wirelessly. The icon on the task
>> bar tells me that it's connected, but there's no internet connection. It
>> also won't connect to the ARMX6. I've searched on-line for how to make it
>> connect, but none of the methods I found have any effect.

> try going to Win10 Settings then internet and look at the graphic showing
> the link to show which side of the link is broken.

In the wired laptop it shows nothing, as it's happily connected and
doesn't need wireless.

On the other laptop it shows a break at the second stage, just before the
internet graphic.

> You could also try the inbuilt troubleshooter (its an option on same page.

Been there, sone that, and it just goes round in circles. It the advises
to press the reset button on the router, and this has no effect.

> You do not say which firewall you are using, this can cuase issues if
> something has changed.

I don't know my way around Windows anything like as well as I know my way
around RISC OS, but it looks as if it's the Windows firewall. Its settings
are gobbledygook to me.

[charles]

In article <045e23205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young

you've come across the First Law of Microsoft: If it doesn't do what it
should, turn it off and on again.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peter Young]

Ah, but in this case, turn it off and on six or seven times and it doesn't
work, and on the next two times it does. What will happen next time,
though?

[Stuart]

This may be entirely irrelevant but we have had issues here of laptops and
sometimes phones refusing to connect to the internet even though they were
networked.

The answer I found was to go into the router and assign a fixed IP address
to each offending item. This was easy to do, all that is required is the
MAC address of the laptop and, once set, everything worked fine.

No, I don't know why but it worked.

--
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

[Peter Young]

On 10 Dec 2019 Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> This may be entirely irrelevant but we have had issues here of laptops and
> sometimes phones refusing to connect to the internet even though they were
> networked.

> The answer I found was to go into the router and assign a fixed IP address
> to each offending item. This was easy to do, all that is required is the
> MAC address of the laptop and, once set, everything worked fine.

> No, I don't know why but it worked.

That is indeed wise advice. However, I've always done just that, so it
doesn't explain the recent problem and its sudden disappearance!

[Chris Hughes]

In message <133ea1205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>

Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 10 Dec 2019 Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>> This may be entirely irrelevant but we have had issues here of laptops and
>> sometimes phones refusing to connect to the internet even though they were
>> networked.

>> The answer I found was to go into the router and assign a fixed IP address
>> to each offending item. This was easy to do, all that is required is the
>> MAC address of the laptop and, once set, everything worked fine.

>> No, I don't know why but it worked.

> That is indeed wise advice. However, I've always done just that, so it
> doesn't explain the recent problem and its sudden disappearance!

A couple of possibilities is the number of Wi-Fi devices in the house and
whether the router can handle them all. Some limit number of connections.

Another possibility is the security on the rounter, did you change the
password and ensure you are using WPA2 for wi-fi secuirty in case someone
is piggy backing on your network.

Yet another possibility is there is a neighbour using the same wi-fi
channel as using and making the signal drop, although a lot of routers
nowadays will automatically switch wi-fi channels to get round this.



--
Chris Hughes

[Tim Hill]

In article <8c28a220...@mytarbis.plus.com>, Chris Hughes

<ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> Yet another possibility is there is a neighbour using the same wi-fi
> channel as using and making the signal drop, although a lot of routers
> nowadays will automatically switch wi-fi channels to get round this.

It amuses me no end that my laser printer operates on the same channel as
next door's BT router and I don't even use its WiFi. This conversation
has reminded me to switch off its WiFi so thanks for that. :-)

If you have an Android device and even if your router has its own app,
one of the most useful free apps IMO is 'WiFi Analyzer' to help you
understand your own WiFi coverage (and bleed from others) in each room.

--
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Ethical? Energy: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg Telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* RISC OS downloads http://timil.com/riscos

[Peter Young]

On 11 Dec 2019 Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <133ea1205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>> On 10 Dec 2019 Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>>> This may be entirely irrelevant but we have had issues here of laptops and
>>> sometimes phones refusing to connect to the internet even though they were
>>> networked.

>>> The answer I found was to go into the router and assign a fixed IP address
>>> to each offending item. This was easy to do, all that is required is the
>>> MAC address of the laptop and, once set, everything worked fine.

>>> No, I don't know why but it worked.

>> That is indeed wise advice. However, I've always done just that, so it
>> doesn't explain the recent problem and its sudden disappearance!

> A couple of possibilities is the number of Wi-Fi devices in the house and
> whether the router can handle them all. Some limit number of connections.

As I write, Fing shows nine devices including the router. The router shows
fourteen with allocated addresses, so I don't imagine that is the problem.

> Another possibility is the security on the rounter, did you change the
> password and ensure you are using WPA2 for wi-fi secuirty in case someone
> is piggy backing on your network.

Yes and yes respectively.

> Yet another possibility is there is a neighbour using the same wi-fi
> channel as using and making the signal drop, although a lot of routers
> nowadays will automatically switch wi-fi channels to get round this.

See reply to Tim downthread. Thanks for the input.

[Peter Young]

On 11 Dec 2019 Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <8c28a220...@mytarbis.plus.com>, Chris Hughes
> <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> Yet another possibility is there is a neighbour using the same wi-fi
>> channel as using and making the signal drop, although a lot of routers
>> nowadays will automatically switch wi-fi channels to get round this.

> It amuses me no end that my laser printer operates on the same channel as
> next door's BT router and I don't even use its WiFi. This conversation
> has reminded me to switch off its WiFi so thanks for that. :-)

> If you have an Android device and even if your router has its own app,
> one of the most useful free apps IMO is 'WiFi Analyzer' to help you
> understand your own WiFi coverage (and bleed from others) in each room.

Thanks, Tim, and I've downloaded that, but so far I haven't been able to
make it do anything useful. Also, the adverts keep interrupting what I'm
trying to do :-(

[charles]

In article <5820b8...@invalid.org.uk>,

Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <8c28a220...@mytarbis.plus.com>, Chris Hughes
> <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> > Yet another possibility is there is a neighbour using the same wi-fi
> > channel as using and making the signal drop, although a lot of routers
> > nowadays will automatically switch wi-fi channels to get round this.

> It amuses me no end that my laser printer operates on the same channel as
> next door's BT router and I don't even use its WiFi. This conversation
> has reminded me to switch off its WiFi so thanks for that. :-)

> If you have an Android device and even if your router has its own app,
> one of the most useful free apps IMO is 'WiFi Analyzer' to help you
> understand your own WiFi coverage (and bleed from others) in each room.

+1

[Rob Hemmings]

In article <5e80bc205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,

Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2019 Chris Hughes <ne...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

> > In message <133ea1205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> > Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> >> On 10 Dec 2019 Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> >>> This may be entirely irrelevant but we have had issues here of
> >>> laptops and sometimes phones refusing to connect to the internet
> >>> even though they were networked.

> >>> The answer I found was to go into the router and assign a fixed IP
> >>> address to each offending item. This was easy to do, all that is
> >>> required is the MAC address of the laptop and, once set, everything
> >>> worked fine.

> >>> No, I don't know why but it worked.

> >> That is indeed wise advice. However, I've always done just that, so
> >> it doesn't explain the recent problem and its sudden disappearance!

> > A couple of possibilities is the number of Wi-Fi devices in the house
> > and whether the router can handle them all. Some limit number of
> > connections.

> As I write, Fing shows nine devices including the router. The router
> shows fourteen with allocated addresses, so I don't imagine that is
> the problem.

<snip>

Depending on your router, that number of devices could well be the
problem. I have definitely seen some routers struggle trying to support
that number of internet connections - particularly on Wi-Fi.

I have also seen similar problems with channel interference causing a
problem with the router. If the issue happens again try switching your
router off and then on again and see if that helps.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Hemmings rhem...@rgvk.co.uk
(Chairman, Hillside LTC)
www.hillsideltc.org.uk Tel: +44 (0)1704 573210

[Tim Hill]

In article <a6b5bc205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young

<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks, Tim, and I've downloaded that, but so far I haven't been able
> to make it do anything useful. Also, the adverts keep interrupting
> what I'm trying to do :-(

With the device's WiFi switched on, swipe the app left or right to see
the various displays or use the dropdown menu.

The Channel Graph will illustrate the signals being received and the Time
Graph shows you how signals vary over time. The Channel Rating will rate
your currently selected Transmitter and/or suggest a better channel to
transmit to your current location. The AP list is a more comprehensive
version of the WiFi selector in the OS and the Signal Meter helps you
find hot/weak spots with an optional audible prompt.

I have no idea why your adverts are interrupting, they don't do that on
my phone or my tablet and are easily ignored when it's in portrait mode.
Ads enable free apps to be free.

--

Tim Hill
Webmaster, www.timil.com

websites : php : RISC OS

[Peter Young]

On 11 Dec 2019 Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <045e23205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,

> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 8 Dec 2019 Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

>> Yes, that looks fine as far as it goes for the wired connection, as
>> I would expect.

>> However, it shows two wireless connections which
>> are both disconnected.

> Hang on can I just clarify, this is the ethernet connected laptop?

> If so then I would expect the two wi-fi connections to be
> disconnected because ethernet takes priority and you don't want two
> simultaneous connections to the same network.

Understood. But it did have a wi-fi connection when the Ethernet cable was

disconnected.

>>> If so ping the default gateway - probably something like ping
>>> 192,168.0.1

>>> What did you get?

>> Sent 4, Received 4, lost 0

>> Then I fired up the unwired laptop, and to my amazement the
>> internet is now available! I'm flabbergasted, and ipconfig and
>> ping work correctly. As far as I know, I've done nothing to make
>> that happen.

>> I've made sure that this laptop has its address reserved in the
>> router, and will cross my fingers that this isn't a temporary
>> thing.

> I'm confused again. So are you up and running now or is something
> still not working.

So far (crosses fingers) all is performing excellently. Many thanks to
everyone for their advice.

[Peter Young]

In the past there have been more than that connected, and not at a time
when I was having trouble.

> I have also seen similar problems with channel interference causing a
> problem with the router. If the issue happens again try switching your
> router off and then on again and see if that helps.

When the RISCBook Go wasn't connecting I did that several times but
unsuccessfully. Good suggestion, though.

At any rate, all is well for the time being.

[Peter Young]

On 11 Dec 2019 Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

Sorry for not answering earlier, Tim, but I've been hectic in a good way.
I'll have another try at it when I have a bit more time.