Is it bad to shoot compounds with fingers
Bob Blunden
purchased a Jennings buckmaster split limb compund (30" draw, 60-70% let
off, at 60lbs) the bow feels real comfortable, and I do not strain
shooting. My form feels good and I seem to be shooting consitenlty. The
problem is, almost all shots go to the right of target, and low. People
have told me that this type of bow is too fast to shoot with fingers. I
don't personlally like using a release, and really enjoy shooting fingers.
Any advice on how to correct this problem, oh yeah, my rest is a two pronged
model(1 on the bottom, one on the right ). Sorry I do not yet know the make
of the rest.
Thanks
Don Casteel
You can shoot a compound with fingers, it is just harder to master than the
release. One point of interest: If you hunt where it gets cold, everything
will change when you put warm gloves on. The hardest part of shooting the
new compounds with fingers is the low hold weight. My guess is you are
holding around 15 pounds. That is not enough weight to get a consistent
release with fingers. If you are going to shoot fingers CHANGE YOUR REST!
You need a rest with a cushion plunger. The rest supports the arrow, the
cushion plunger fine tunes the arrow exit. Find a local finger shooter to
help you with the tuning. My guess is your shop is set up for the masses,
I.E. release shooters. If there is a local FITA shooter find them. They
know finger shooting.
Good luck
Don Casteel
Bob Blunden <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:_ReR4.4205$Ft1.2...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Richard Fuehrer
Bob Blunden <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:_ReR4.4205$Ft1.2...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
> This might sound like a newbie question(cuz I am a newbie), but I recently
> purchased a Jennings buckmaster split limb compund (30" draw, 60-70% let
> off, at 60lbs) the bow feels real comfortable, and I do not strain
> shooting. My form feels good and I seem to be shooting consitenlty. The
> problem is, almost all shots go to the right of target, and low. People
> have told me that this type of bow is too fast to shoot with fingers. I
> don't personlally like using a release, and really enjoy shooting fingers.
> Any advice on how to correct this problem, oh yeah, my rest is a two
pronged
> model(1 on the bottom, one on the right ). Sorry I do not yet know the
make
> of the rest.
>
> Thanks
Well, you're doing better than some newbies. You're asking. You can't
learn otherwise.
Any bow can be shot with fingers. It just takes a lot of practice, some
bows more than others.
First, make sure you aren't moving your hand sideways or up or down when you
release. Push your thumb against your neck and make sure it's still in the
same spot after the shot.
Next, verify that your arrows are spined right for the bow. If in question,
crank the bow weight up or down about 5 lb and see what happens. Fingers
take a stiffer arrow and your's might be too light.
I'm in question about your rest. You don't give a brand name. I wish you
had. If it doesn't have a cushion plunger, you probably need one. I don't
think you are getting enough support on the side of the arrow. When you
release, the arrow naturally bends toward the bow and your rest may be
letting it bend too much.
If your bow has adjustable letoff, set it at the lowest percentage so you
are holding the max. weight. You can change it again later after you have a
LOT more practice.
If none of this helps, don't hesitate to ask again. Someone else here will
have more suggestions.
Dick F.
David Egalton
Bob Blunden <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:_ReR4.4205$Ft1.2...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
> This might sound like a newbie question(cuz I am a newbie), but I recently
> purchased a Jennings buckmaster split limb compund (30" draw, 60-70% let
> off, at 60lbs) the bow feels real comfortable, and I do not strain
> shooting. My form feels good and I seem to be shooting consitenlty. The
> problem is, almost all shots go to the right of target, and low. People
> have told me that this type of bow is too fast to shoot with fingers. I
> don't personlally like using a release, and really enjoy shooting fingers.
> Any advice on how to correct this problem, oh yeah, my rest is a two
pronged
> model(1 on the bottom, one on the right ). Sorry I do not yet know the
make
> of the rest.
>
> Thanks
If you are going to shoot using the fingers rather than a release aid, you
really need to shoot using a compensator button and arrow rest, as used by
those shooting recurve bows. It's all to do with the "archers paradox".
Change over, tune the bow properly and make sure that the arrow spine is
correct and you should be OK.
Dave.>
>
Henry Etteldorf
the best shooter in my bowhunting group, including the guys who shoot with a
release.
A longer bow then the buckmaster (like 40"+ axel to axel) helps as does a
very consistent and clean release. I believe you will want to change the
arrow rest to something like a NAP flipper. The basic ones are fairly
cheap. The top of the line one is about $40. These rests allow the arrow to
bend out freely on release instead of popping the arrow upward. Don't worry
about buying or changing anything but the rest (if needed) until you get
good enough to notice a difference. I have a $40 stabilizer that I don't
use cause I don't notice my shots being any better and it makes the bow
heavier.
While it is possible the bow is setup well and all you need do is move the
sight pins you probably have to do some basic tuning.
Move the knock upward if the tail of the arrow is high, down if tail low.
Move the rest outward if the nose is inward, and vise versa.
To see if your arrow spine is about right go to www.edersbow.com and check
the Easton chart. I believe you are better off picking a shaft a little
stronger (larger) than a weaker one for the selection group. If you need to
buy new arrows, you can buy them singularly and only need three to start.
Hang out at the local archery range/shop for an hour or two. Strike up a
conversation with someone (especially if they also shoot with fingers) and
you will get all kind of help for a few dollars range fee.
Richard Fuehrer <rl...@cyberhighway.net> wrote in message
news:8f5fjl$la8$1...@news.cyberhighway.net...
Bob @NH
My local pros shop is useless, the only time they would help me was before I
wrote the check! I checked the manufacturer that makes my rest, and they
called the rest a built in plunger. Thanks Again,
Bob
"Henry Etteldorf" <hette...@nfco.com> wrote in message
news:8f79ic$9c...@news.vbe.com...
Mad-Mikey
I began shooting with fingers some quarter century ago, and only
recently went to a release. Shooting a compound with fingers is not a
problem, if everything on the bow compliments the shooter. From your
post, your main malfunction is your choice of rest. Follow the advice of
others with regard to using a cushion plunger, and for God's sake, take
your bow to a reputable archery shop rather than going to a generic
sporting good's store. This will assure that your bow will be set up
properly. Personally, I think this year I'll go back to fingers because
I've accomplished what I wanted with the release. I like the idea of
having more direct control with fingers than with a release, especially
when stalking.
Good Luck
--
"Mad-Mikey" At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies,
then they became addictions taking all my time
and money. If they ever find a cure for these
sicknesses--- I'm refusing treatment.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sean Tam
bow is not suitable for finger release.
In article <_ReR4.4205$Ft1.2...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,
"Bob Blunden" <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> This might sound like a newbie question(cuz I am a newbie), but I
recently
> purchased a Jennings buckmaster split limb compund (30" draw, 60-70%
let
> off, at 60lbs) the bow feels real comfortable, and I do not strain
> shooting. My form feels good and I seem to be shooting consitenlty.
The
> problem is, almost all shots go to the right of target, and low.
People
> have told me that this type of bow is too fast to shoot with
fingers. I
> don't personlally like using a release, and really enjoy shooting
fingers.
> Any advice on how to correct this problem, oh yeah, my rest is a two
pronged
> model(1 on the bottom, one on the right ). Sorry I do not yet know
the make
> of the rest.
>
> Thanks
>
>
Dave Pierce
"Bob Blunden" <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:_ReR4.4205$Ft1.2...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Leon
shooting does not really affect scores if your shooting form is good and
your techniques are correct. However, using a trigger may reduce the effect
of porpoising. It also looks more professional. Your rest should work well
for both types of shooting. You must keep in mind to check that your arrows
are of the correct spine for finger shooting. If not, you will cause damage
to your bow and possibly bodily harm to yourself. If you have any questions
please e-mail me. I may be of *some* help...
Leon Zhu
bauerbo...@hockeymail.com
Bob @NH
handed and the "Pro Shop" I go to is supposedly one of the best in the are.
Apparently they just don't like to help people like myself trying to learn
the sport. I have checked the spine of my arrows according to the easton
chart and it seems I am using the right arrows. I made a few observations,
and another thing I noticed is that the arrow is not hittong the target
straight on. The nock is more to the left of the target then the tip. I
don't knowif this helps, but this weekend I will try adjusting the rest
inwards toward the bow more. Does this sound reasonable??? Thanks again to
all those willing to help, I am having a great time with this sport and
would hate to give up due to frustration.
Thanks,
Bob
"Leon" <baue...@hockeymail.com> wrote in message
news:8faus4$qfv$1...@newton.pacific.net.sg...
Leon
by 'fishtailing'. This happens when the arrow leaves the bowstring when the
bowstring is vibrating sideways.(I hope this is clear enough!) This sideway
vibration is caused by the archer 'plucking' at the string during the
release. All finger releases tend to have this plucking effect, and
fishtailing is inevitable. However, the effect can be reduced by practicing
to release the bowstring cleanly, and not letting it roll off the finger.
The release should be a quick release of the fingers, juz straightening them
and pulling them(gently!) away from the bow.
Leon Zhu<---hope this helps
shady...@hotmail.com
"Bob @NH" <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote:
<snip>
>The nock is more to the left of the target then the tip. I
> don't knowif this helps, but this weekend I will try adjusting the
rest
> inwards toward the bow more. Does this sound reasonable???
I think you'll be wanting to move the rest *out* from the bow, not
towards it.
The Easton tuning guide says something like:
1. check clearance
2. decrease bow weight
3. use a lighter arrow point
4. use a stiffer arrow
5. increase spring or plunger tension.
6. move rest out from the bow in small increments,
for this sort of arrow position.
I'd probably check the rest position first before trying anything. For
finger shooting the tip of the arrow should be visible to the left of
the string, when the string is alligned with the centre of the limbs.
If the bow has been set up for release shooting, then the rest position
will be wrong for finger shooting.
Sean Tam
http://www.eastonarchery.com/tech_room/tuning_guide.htm
If you are shooting the target at a close distance, it is not uncommon
to have the arrows strike at an angle because of archer's paradox.
In article <b5lS4.10938$Ft1.4...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,
"Bob @NH" <rb...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Thanks for all the input, to answer some of the questions, I shoot
right
> handed and the "Pro Shop" I go to is supposedly one of the best in
the are.
> Apparently they just don't like to help people like myself trying to
learn
> the sport. I have checked the spine of my arrows according to the
easton
> chart and it seems I am using the right arrows. I made a few
observations,
> and another thing I noticed is that the arrow is not hittong the
target
> straight on. The nock is more to the left of the target then the
tip. I
> don't knowif this helps, but this weekend I will try adjusting the
rest
> inwards toward the bow more. Does this sound reasonable??? Thanks
again to
> all those willing to help, I am having a great time with this sport
and
> would hate to give up due to frustration.
>
Laszlo Nobi
: If you are going to shoot using the fingers rather than a release aid, you
: really need to shoot using a compensator button and arrow rest, as used by
: those shooting recurve bows. It's all to do with the "archers paradox".
: Change over, tune the bow properly and make sure that the arrow spine is
: correct and you should be OK.
: Dave.>
You don't necessarily need a cushon plunger, but you do need to use a "shoot
around" type of rest rather than a "shoot through" rest. I use the NAP
Centerrest Flipper for years with good results. It's the best finger
shooter rest on the market, IMO.
Let us prey.....
Laszlo
Member: Wildlife Legislative Fund of America
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society
National Rifle Association
Colorado Bowhunters Association
Ft. Collins Archery Association
PETA-- People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
Please remove the "nospam" from address to reply by email.
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not
necessarily represent those of Hewlett-Packard Company
: >
Laszlo Nobi
: What's your bow's axle-to-axle length? If it is shorter than 40", the
: bow is not suitable for finger release.
That's a pretty bold statement, and I disagree. I have a 30+ inch AMO draw
length (29" true draw), and I have shot 36" bows comfortably, notably the
Mathews MQ1. I prefer to stay at 38" or longer, but to say that shorter
than 40" is "unsuitable" is a gross over-generalization.
Laszlo Nobi
: However, using a trigger may reduce the effect of porpoising.
If the bow is tuned correctly it should not matter what release you use.
:It also looks more professional.
It also doesn't "look" like archery to me. What the h*ll do you mean by
"more professional"? It looks more "gadgety".
: Your rest should work well for both types of shooting.
It's amazing how much bad info you can get on these threads. The type of
rest suitable for release shooters is not suitable for fingers. A release
shooter needs to use a "shoot through" rest, a finger shooter a "shoot
around" rest to take into account arcehrs paradox.
: You must keep in mind to check that your arrows
: are of the correct spine for finger shooting. If not, you will cause damage
: to your bow and possibly bodily harm to yourself.
How can an improperly spined arrow cause bow damage? Bodily harm? Gimme a
break. All it's going to do is cause th arrow to flex too much or too
little, resulting in instability and erratic flight.
Let us prey.....
Laszlo
Member: Wildlife Legislative Fund of America
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society
National Rifle Association
Colorado Bowhunters Association
Ft. Collins Archery Association
PETA-- People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
Please remove the "nospam" from address to reply by email.
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not
necessarily represent those of Hewlett-Packard Company
: Leon Zhu
Laszlo Nobi
: Well, the phenomena of the arrow entering the target at this angle is caused
: by 'fishtailing'. This happens when the arrow leaves the bowstring when the
: bowstring is vibrating sideways.(I hope this is clear enough!) This sideway
: vibration is caused by the archer 'plucking' at the string during the
: release.
The "sideways vibration" can be a result of an underspined or overspined
arrow. In other words, an untuned bow. It's not always the release.
: All finger releases tend to have this plucking effect, and
: fishtailing is inevitable.
No, "archer's paradox" is inevitable. A properly tuned bow will cause the
arrow to stabilize quickly. Fishtailing downrange is NOT inevitable.
Let us prey.....
Laszlo
Member: Wildlife Legislative Fund of America
Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society
National Rifle Association
Colorado Bowhunters Association
Ft. Collins Archery Association
PETA-- People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
Please remove the "nospam" from address to reply by email.
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not
necessarily represent those of Hewlett-Packard Company
: Leon Zhu<---hope this helps
Ron and Michelle Babcock
year. Both bows were in excess of 300 fps with less than 6 inches of brace
height and 40 inches long. If it had'nt been for being silly and breaking a
string 3 hours before shooting at IBO worlds,.....well thats another
story,....A few other comments though,....
1) the shorter the axle to axle and the shorter the brace height, the more
critical the bow and the more practice you'll need to shoot fingers with it.
I like to keep my bows axle to axle at least 10 inches longer than my draw
length for fingers.
2) Agree with the shoot around rest, my personal favorite is one of the
cavalier plunger and and a cavalier magnetic rest.
3) When you shoot fingers instead of a release, some shops see a 30-100
dollar loss as you are'nt buying an expensive release to shoot with.
Additionally, many shop owners/ shooters no longer know how to properly
shoot fingers. Finger shooting rests generally sell for much less as well
bub
> This might sound like a newbie question(cuz I am a newbie), but I recently
> purchased a Jennings buckmaster split limb compund (30" draw, 60-70% let
> off, at 60lbs) the bow feels real comfortable, and I do not strain
> shooting. My form feels good and I seem to be shooting consitenlty. The
> problem is, almost all shots go to the right of target, and low. People
> have told me that this type of bow is too fast to shoot with fingers. I
> don't personlally like using a release, and really enjoy shooting fingers.
> Any advice on how to correct this problem, oh yeah, my rest is a two pronged
> model(1 on the bottom, one on the right ). Sorry I do not yet know the make
> of the rest.
>
> Thanks
Guess I might as well add my $.02.
I sold compounds for 15 years or so starting about 1972. When York came out with
the 1st 'cam' bow, I sold a ton of em'. However, being a finger shooter, I got a
lot of flyers with this bow. A Pro friend of mine suggested I try a release.
Sure enough, with a release, I could shoot the necks off of coke bottles at 30
yards. Those York cam bows were only about 40" axle to axle as I remember.
So... IMHO, unless you are really talented and practise daily, AND/OR you want
some meat on the table, get the longest axle to axle bow you can buy. The 1st
compounds were 48" axle to axle and were VERY accurate with fingers. They had
round eccentrics. If someone made a 48" cam bow today, I'd buy it in a second.
Someone my yet make a round wheeled target compound. Don't know.
At the moment, I use a Darton Lightning cam bow (discontinued) which is about
45" axle to axle. And this bow is marginal for me.
GregS
wrote:
<snip>
> If someone made a 48" cam bow today, I'd buy it in a second.
>Someone my yet make a round wheeled target compound. Don't know.
The longest I've seen today are just shy of 46" (Hoyt Aspen and
AccuTech with LX Pro limbs). I have an Aspen with the an accu-
wheel and the older Carbon Plus 4 limbs. I find it very smooth
at my 28" draw with a three finger hold. But my other bow is an
Oasis that is only 40", so of course 46" is great improvement.
Besides a long, finger shooting bow, another thing I had trouble
finding was an airline approved case long enough to fit it! That
never occurred to me until I tried to fit my new Aspen in my old
case and quickly declaired, "Oh *&^*!"
Greg S
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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Gord
>
> > This might sound like a newbie question(cuz I am a newbie), but I recently
> > purchased a Jennings buckmaster split limb compund (30" draw, 60-70% let
> > off, at 60lbs) the bow feels real comfortable, and I do not strain
> > shooting. My form feels good and I seem to be shooting consitenlty. The
> > problem is, almost all shots go to the right of target, and low. People
> > have told me that this type of bow is too fast to shoot with fingers. I
> > don't personlally like using a release, and really enjoy shooting fingers.
> > Any advice on how to correct this problem, oh yeah, my rest is a two pronged
> > model(1 on the bottom, one on the right ). Sorry I do not yet know the make
> > of the rest.
> >
> > Thanks
>
I haven't shot fingers in years but I might have an idea to help. (Any thoughts
from the peanut gallery welcome, trying to reason this one out, not talking from
experience)
Anytime I shot fingers for the heck of it with my hunting bow just to see if I could
hit something if my release broke or got lost while on a hunt, I found that my rest
reacted differently. I was using the TMhunter style rest with the prongs, and when
I was pulling with my fingers, the rest felt soft. (Pulling with fingers applied
pressure down on the arrow that isn't there with a release.)
I'd try a stiffer rest. If you're using a rest like I had, you might be pushing
down on the rest causing it to fall and shoot low.
hmmm, seems reasonable to me on a Friday.
Gordo
Johnson's Valley Printer
they are fast and flat!
Laszlo Nobi wrote:
> David Egalton (Dave.E...@btinternet.com) wrote:
>
> : If you are going to shoot using the fingers rather than a release aid, you
> : really need to shoot using a compensator button and arrow rest, as used by
> : those shooting recurve bows. It's all to do with the "archers paradox".
> : Change over, tune the bow properly and make sure that the arrow spine is
> : correct and you should be OK.
> : Dave.>
>
> You don't necessarily need a cushon plunger, but you do need to use a "shoot
> around" type of rest rather than a "shoot through" rest. I use the NAP
> Centerrest Flipper for years with good results. It's the best finger
> shooter rest on the market, IMO.
>
Mike Lowe
work. I personally like bow speeds around 225 fps for best broadhead
accuracy. I guess I'm from the "Old School" but that is what works best for
me.
I currently shoot a Hoyt LX Pro that is 45" axle to axle.
Good luck and shoot straight!
Mike Lowe
hit low and right at any distance? It sounds like a tuning problem to me if
they hit the same place at a given distance. If the impact point varies at
different distances, it could be a problem with your bow hand. If you don't
shoot with a stablizer and bow sling I would suggest it, and try shooting
with a open hand.
aRcHeR823
and shooting fingers, one does not go with the other because of
archer's paradox. He has to shoot some sort of rest that
accounts for that, such as a plunger and flipper rest, or
plungerrest type rests.
Henry Etteldorf
Roy
First -- you need to shoot a rest designed for finger shooters.
Second -- Make sure you are loosing the arrow not plucking it. What I
mean is let the string rip from your fingers as you pull through your shoot,
don't let the string go. Look were your hand ends up, if it is away from
your face you are letting go of the string sideways and not straight back.
Third -- The faster the bow the more it will amplify your mistakes.
Longer Axle-to-Axle the easier on your fingers. The longer the brace height
the more forgiving, and round wheel more forgiving the cam wheel.
Fourth -- Make sure your arrow spine is correct for your bow
Fifth -- Make sure your bow is setup correctly. (a pro shop or
archery club can help with this)
If you have specific question I maybe able to help just e-mail me
Roy
NFAA Instructor
----- Original Message -----
From: "aRcHeR823" <hskNO...@visto.com.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Is it bad to shoot compounds with fingers
> Wait a second! Bottom line is he's shooting a prong style rest
> and shooting fingers, one does not go with the other because of
> archer's paradox. He has to shoot some sort of rest that
> accounts for that, such as a plunger and flipper rest, or
> plungerrest type rests.
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>
"aRcHeR823" <hskNO...@visto.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:16d06442...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> Wait a second! Bottom line is he's shooting a prong style rest
> and shooting fingers, one does not go with the other because of
> archer's paradox. He has to shoot some sort of rest that
> accounts for that, such as a plunger and flipper rest, or
> plungerrest type rests.
>