Draw hold time (for recurve)

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Peter

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Mar 27, 2003, 4:07:46 AM3/27/03
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Hello Everyone,

I'm posting because I'm finding that I take a long time at full draw
before I loose. I've only been shooting for 6 months and I find that
if I try and speed up my accuracy suffers.

Any help? Or should I try and speed up and will my accuracy return
after a while?

Peter

Black

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Mar 27, 2003, 7:37:08 AM3/27/03
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"Peter" <peter....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
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i've been shooting for about six months too... in the archery club where I
shoot coach told me to hold the full draw maximum for 5 seconds, not
longer... after 5 seconds your muscles begin to tremble, and you won't be
able to be accurate enough...

from what he told me you should speed up, and keep practicing like that and
your accuracy will return for sure...

b.


Ed DeBee

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Mar 27, 2003, 8:39:04 AM3/27/03
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I've been shooting for a few years now and find that my average time
at full draw is from 5 to 7 seconds. I have no problem with this
time because I paddle my kayaks 100 miles a month. I don't know what
kind of time you are talking about but I don't recommend holding at
anchor more than 7 seconds.

My average indoor score is in the 280s with a high of 292.

Ed DeBee
NAA Instructor

On 27 Mar 2003 01:07:46 -0800, peter....@ntlworld.com (Peter)
wrote:

shadyshark

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Mar 27, 2003, 11:27:05 AM3/27/03
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How long is "a long time"?
There was a (very good) Korean lady a few years back who would spend
no more than a second and a half at full draw. I'd guess most of us
aren't that consistent. 3-4 seconds isn't excessive, 10 or more is...
I'm talking Recurve, target archery here, mind you.

Are you struggling to get through a clicker? Or just hanging around at
full draw without one?

peter....@ntlworld.com (Peter) wrote in message news:<61019828.0303...@posting.google.com>...

Sabrina Fried

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Mar 27, 2003, 10:12:12 PM3/27/03
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It's been about 5 or 6 months since I returned to archery (again) and quite
honestly I can't hold at full draw for more than 7 seconds. It's not that I
am not physically strong enough to hold it, or that I have an itchy bow
finger, or that I am shooting a bow that is too strong for me, it's just
that I find that if I hold longer than 6 or 7 seconds my release posture
suffers, my aim and accuracy suffer, and in the long run my overall shooting
session is not as good because my fingers tire faster.

As for Kayaking, now THERE is something I haven't done in a long time that I
would love to do again! :)

Sabrina
"Ed DeBee" <ede...@ev1.net> wrote in message
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Ed DeBee

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Mar 28, 2003, 9:57:50 AM3/28/03
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Sabrina,

On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:12:12 GMT, "Sabrina Fried"
<sabrin...@rogers.com> wrote:

>It's been about 5 or 6 months since I returned to archery (again) and quite
>honestly I can't hold at full draw for more than 7 seconds. It's not that I
>am not physically strong enough to hold it, or that I have an itchy bow
>finger, or that I am shooting a bow that is too strong for me, it's just
>that I find that if I hold longer than 6 or 7 seconds my release posture
>suffers, my aim and accuracy suffer, and in the long run my overall shooting
>session is not as good because my fingers tire faster.

I think you are doing good holding for those times, especially just
returning to the sport. One exercise you might try is drawing, hold
for 5 to 6 seconds and then let down. Next time draw to a
satisfactory aiming solution and then release. Doing this you'll be
building good draw and hold skills between each shot. You don't have
to do this all the time but set a certain number of shots which you
know won't be loosed but used for draw and hold practise. I find it
helps.

>As for Kayaking, now THERE is something I haven't done in a long time that I
>would love to do again! :)

I love the sport and find it builds the right muscles for archery.

Check out my Kayak web site at:

http://users3.ev1.net/~edebee/

Good shooting,

Ed

John Grove

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Mar 29, 2003, 4:48:45 AM3/29/03
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Ascham wrote "Holding is better perceived in the mind than seen by the
eye" The problem is that the energy in contracted muscles cannot be
replenished. Therefore your muscles run out of energy and the shakes set
in as you mentally try to maintain the bow at full draw. Under these
conditions you may creep forward without you being aware of the creep.

You will have been taught the "T" draw where you sight the bow before
drawing, then draw. Keep the sight on the gold, draw until the string
touches your reference point on your face. Then keep the pressure on as
you elbow rotates until it feels as if your elbow is behind you head. If
you are using a clicker the clicker should go off at this point. Now
relax your fingers for a good shot. The follow through with the drawing
hand going back then occurs naturally due to the sudden release of
tension. Now the muscles are no longer under tension their energy can be
replaced ready for the next shot.

Where was the Hold? Look more carefully at good archers and you will see
that most do not actually hold but have a period at the end of the draw
where the arrow is moving very very slowly as the elbow moves towards
making the forearm in line with the arrow.

There is no such thing as holding you are either drawing or creeping
forward.

Note
I have used the words "reference point" not the old "anchor point".
Anchor point suggests something static to be held in place.
--
John Grove

Chuck A

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Mar 29, 2003, 9:26:41 AM3/29/03
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> There is no such thing as holding you are either drawing or creeping
> forward.


I totally agree. You must keep the arrow moving. Very slowly mind you. You
never actually hold. This is where a clicker is extremely helpful. It gives
you a reference point. Let the sight float on the gold as you draw through
the clicker. To do this you must be using your back muscles to draw. Don't
worry about how long you are holding. Worry about keeping the arrow moving.
If you are doing it correctly you will come through the clicker long before
your muscles fatigue. They will fatigue more quickly if you stop and start
your motion than if you continuously pull.

--
Thank You & God Bless
Chuck
cand...@adelphia.net

"John Grove" <ARCH...@sherwood3.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
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Chuck A

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Mar 29, 2003, 9:37:27 AM3/29/03
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One other point. You must be aware of the draw length that you set your
clicker. If it is too short you will not get your back muscles involved. If
it is too long you will have lots of difficulty getting through the clicker.
Get some coaching from a recurve archery instructor. Make sure that they
understand the use of a clicker. Many compound archer will not understand
this.

--
Thank You & God Bless
Chuck
cand...@adelphia.net


Chuck A" <cand...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
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Norm

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Mar 29, 2003, 10:20:36 AM3/29/03
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Regarding where to set the clicker, this was a problem of mine early on (and
may still be!). Until you have shot for a while, and established a "form",
you will probably be moving your clicker around. Clicker position is
affected by more than just the reference area you use for your string hand.
It is also affected by your bow shoulder position, hand position on the
grip, position of your string elbow, finger position on the string and
shoulder alignment, just to mention a few. It has been said in another
archery forum that you should be able to draw the point of your arrow at
least 2cm past the clicker. If you're serious about this, a few hours with
a qualified coach can help you avoid months or years of bad habits and poor
shooting. It may seem expensive to hire a coach, but for someone who is
serious, a coach should be considered an essential tool just like a good
arrow.

Disclaimer: I am new to archery, only a couple of years; this is just
information I have found to be generally true and worth what you paid for
it.

Norm

"Chuck A" <cand...@adelphia.net> wrote in message

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Steve Bielby

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Mar 30, 2003, 4:47:52 AM3/30/03
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Take up longbow then you won't need to hold at full draw for more than 3
seconds and you can have a coffee whilst the recurves and compounds finally
let go of the arrow.

Steve

"Sabrina Fried" <sabrin...@rogers.com> wrote in message
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Peter

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Mar 31, 2003, 6:57:54 AM3/31/03
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Thanks to everyone that has replied!

Wow, its been helpful.

I don't use a clicker, and my hold time is about 5-7 seconds. I tried
speeding up again and at 40 yrds my arrows are all over. Then I slowed
down again and my accuracy goes up - I get 4/6 in the gold.

Should I try and speed up at all?

Peter

Murray Elliot

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Mar 31, 2003, 6:59:14 AM3/31/03
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>Note
>I have used the words "reference point" not the old "anchor point".
>Anchor point suggests something static to be held in place.

Spoken like a true GNAS coach John ;o)

You could, of course, arcgue that the face/string reference point
*should not* move, once established, until the release. Syntax and
semantics.

Norm

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Mar 31, 2003, 7:11:32 AM3/31/03
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Give yourself some time. You have not been shooting very long. With time
you may naturally shoot faster. If not, shooting faster with accuracy may
come easier in itty bitty steps. Find the little form changes that take up
time during your draw/anchor sequence and try to speed them up or change
them. You don't have to speed up much if any. 5-7 seconds isn't very long.
I know a collegiate world champ who is at 6 seconds.

Norm

"Peter" <peter....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
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shadyshark

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Mar 31, 2003, 10:20:01 AM3/31/03
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Um. What are you finding to do for all that time at full draw?
I mean, you come up, reach full draw, check that everything feels
okay, then let go.
What are you doing for the other 4-6 seconds...? :-)

Tom Duncan

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Mar 31, 2003, 12:05:30 PM3/31/03
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"shadyshark" <shady...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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> Um. What are you finding to do for all that time at full draw?
> I mean, you come up, reach full draw, check that everything feels
> okay, then let go.
> What are you doing for the other 4-6 seconds...? :-)

In my case, I'm trying to get the damn thing through the clicker.

But when I wasn't using a clicker, it was more trying to line everything up
and check my reference. And making sure I was bending at the waist for
90m...

7om


John Grove

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Mar 31, 2003, 1:41:34 PM3/31/03
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Aw you guessed!

--
John Grove

shadyshark

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Apr 1, 2003, 7:22:36 AM4/1/03
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That's sort of the point.
That's all the stuff you do *before* you reach full draw (yes I know -
unit aiming, but it doesn't mean "wait until you're ready to let go
before tilting").
By the time you reach full draw, everything should already be in
place. If it isn't, *that's* when you come down and begin the shot
again, because you've done something badly wrong. You can't fix
problems at full draw (unless you're a. brave and b. shooting a
compound with let-off :-}).
Shooting a clicker and struggling to get through - that's a sign that
you've got the draw wrong...

"Tom Duncan" <T...@The-Shirt.co.uk> wrote in message news:<b69t2p$pic$1...@pump1.york.ac.uk>...

Tom Duncan

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Apr 1, 2003, 9:20:01 AM4/1/03
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"shadyshark" <shady...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Shooting a clicker and struggling to get through - that's a sign that
> you've got the draw wrong...

I get it through nice and easy on the flat - it's just 90m. I'm not bending
right, but aren't entirely sure how to get it sorted. I guess I need to get
someone with a camera to take some photos...

7om


shadyshark

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Apr 3, 2003, 6:02:07 AM4/3/03
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Photos might not help... It's sometimes hard to see slight differences
(and clicker problems can be caused by *slight* differences). An
experienced other can sometimes spot problems a bit more easily. But
in the end you need to get the feel the same at longer distances (form
shouldn't differ apart from the tilt).

"Tom Duncan" <T...@The-Shirt.co.uk> wrote in message news:<b6c76j$rd$1...@pump1.york.ac.uk>...

Zeeeebo!

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Apr 4, 2003, 11:09:29 AM4/4/03
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Just my 2 bits. I haven't shot for a VERY long time, but when I did, I
used longbow, recurve, and compound; at least one type at least twice a
week. I don't even want to talk about the "procedural pre-release
checklist" I used to go through w/a compound using pins and a peep.
Caveat: with both longbow and recurve I have never used any kind of sights.
All that said, I shoot very instinctively, and do not hold very long. The
form of the draw and consistently reaching my reference point at full draw
were the most important. The 60lb longbow, there was no hold whatsoever.
Draaaw/BANG! When I shoot the recurve, I really don't think about it, but
now that I've spent so much time watching this string, I think that I must
hold for 3-4 seconds. (That's at 20yds, I think that I hold for slightly
more time at longer ranges.)
Keep in mind that all of this is coming from someone whose traditional bows
are all stick-bows and who only competed in a historical reenactment group.
"Cogito, ergo Zoooom!!!"
'98 SuperHawk
"An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind."
Ghandi

shady...@hotmail.com (shadyshark) wrote in
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Stephen Russell

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Apr 4, 2003, 7:54:15 PM4/4/03
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Sounds like you're bending more at 90m than at shorter distances which
affects everyone (including us wheelbowers). Your draw will tend to
lengthen as you tilt your bow arm into the air for the longer shot. It
should be apparent if you can get someone to video you while you shoot
flat and then shoot to 90m. You might be extending your bow arm which
will change the feel of the shot and throw off your timing - especially
with a clicker.

I'd recommend bending at the waist only while keeping your upper trunk
in alignment as with a horizontal shot, if you can. The only problem
with that is the tilt angle of your body will shift your aiming point
noticably at 90m (assuming recurve FITA shooter?) and you might have to
reposition your feet to compensate.

I'd set my feet and draw to 90m with my eyes closed, then open them to
see how far off left/right I was, then reposition my feet to correct.

Otherwise the flat shot should be identical to the long shot.

Good luck.

-steve

menno

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Apr 5, 2003, 3:25:27 PM4/5/03
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Strange or not?
Bowshooting and kayaking seem to go well together. I'm into both hobbys too.

menno

"Ed DeBee" <ede...@ev1.net> wrote in message

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Sabrina Fried

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Apr 5, 2003, 5:11:34 PM4/5/03
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Not so strange apparently, at least four or five other members of my archery
club have at least a passing interest in Kayaking too.

Sabrina

"menno" <mmme...@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
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assyb...@gmail.com

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Dec 23, 2019, 4:53:33 PM12/23/19
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and hit the gold whilst longbow clap if they hit the boss :)
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