Plunger Spring Tension
Han Su Kim
got a good answer on this.
Simply put, what is better a stiff button or a weak button (within reason)
assuming they tune to different shafts.
Han Su Kim
--
-----
Han Su James Kim
arc...@redconnect.net
krar...@hotmail.com
-----
Kerry Kingsbury
of the plunger as part of properly tuning the bow/shaft setup to punch
perfect holes when paper tuning.
Han Su Kim wrote in message ...
shady...@hotmail.com
"Han Su Kim" <arc...@redconnect.net> wrote:
> What are the real benefits of having a stiffer or weaker spring? I
never
> got a good answer on this.
>
your button is that you should be able to tune to a wider range of
shafts using them than you would with just the standard mid-range
spring. That's it. I don't think there is any intrinsic benefit to
having a stiff or weak spring. The only difference I can think of is
that you might get a little more travel out of a weak spring (i.e. you
can't compress a stiff spring as much as a weaker one, generally,
because there is less space between the coils, because they are
thicker!), I don't know if this is an issue.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Han Su Kim
Take for example this. An weak shaft would usually need a stiffer button to
compensate. A stiffer shaft would usually need a weaker button to
compensate for the EXACT same bow. Both shafts tune up and they both shoot
similar groups.
The question which setup will shoot a tighter group? The weaker button or
the stiffer button?
The reason I'm asking is I shot a pretty weak button indoors and shot very
well but I shot a button as stiff as a rock outdoors and didn't perform as
well.
What again are the advantages of a stiffer vs. weaker button given that both
spring tensions will tune a different arrow shaft?
Han Su Kim
Unknown
<arc...@redconnect.net> wrote:
>What are the real benefits of having a stiffer or weaker spring? I never
>got a good answer on this.
your shooting and your setup.
For me, I use ACEs which are a bit on the stiff side AND I have the
button on the stiff side. This gives me (when I shoot properly) good
groups at all distances.
You might think that this won't tune, BUT yes - this does give me a
good bare shaft result out to 30m (beyond that, I don't care what the
bare shaft does - since I don't shoot bare shafts in competition ;o)
You should know by now that the physics is beyond most of us, and so
we have to result to trial and error to see what works best.
Gives me an idea - maybe the arrow companies could make a fortune
renting out arrow sets for people to try when they're setting up a new
bow (charging for damaged ones of course!)... it'd give the archer a
low-cost route to finding the best shaft, and would give the
manufacturer a good return on investment since the same shafts could
be used time and time again.... Probably a stoopid idea, but what the
hell.
--
Murray
Think "Gold", shoot "Gold"
m.kirkwood
whippy ones for getting groups. So if you have any control over the
matter you should head that way and have a weak button. I'm sure if you
post this query on Sagitarrius you will get the same answer - but in
much more detail ,-O
Easton have an arrow choosing program that runs on a PC. Some dealers
use it, and coaching groups etc as its not very exensive. You need lots
of measurements from your bow set up (tiller, string material/strands
weight at full draw etc) and the program will print out a list of
arrows/spines/points etc and their percentage match to your equipment.
Muriel
Marty Sasaki
know why this should be so, only that it's my experience. I've been shooting 600
X10s and at the weight I was shooting these were weak. They grouped okay, but not
as well as I would like. I tried out some Windsport shafts that were stiffer and
found that they grouped a lot better. In both cases I tried to get them tuned as
best I could (bare shafts, then tuning for groups).
This is just my personal observation, but I've seen a few others who experienced
the same with their setups.
Having a loaner program would certainly help archers, especially for the pricier
shafts. I spent a lot of time agonizing over my X10 purchase and ended up getting
an arrow that was a little too weak. Of course next time I'll know better...
Actually, having a dealer who really knows what he/she is doing would be a
reasonable substitute for this. I'm sure that if I had gone to a George T, or Don
Rabska, or someone else with technical expertise, I would have had a better
match. Such a person could watch you shoot a few arrows to get an idea of your
form and style of release and make a better informed first try.
I don't know how many such dealers are out there. Such a person would need lots
of experience, and most pro shop owners are unlikely to get such experience since
their customers are predominantly hunters, and 3D archers. Getting a broadhead to
fly straight is certainly different than getting an X10 or a Beman Racing to
group well at 70M.
Marty Sasaki
dean
m.kirkwood wrote in message <380EFE17...@bioss.sari.ac.uk>...
>Han Su, good-top archers seem to agree that stiff arrows are better than
>whippy ones for getting groups. So if you have any control over the
>matter you should head that way and have a weak button. I'm sure if you
>post this query on Sagitarrius you will get the same answer - but in
>much more detail ,-O
>
Sagitarrius ?
>Easton have an arrow choosing program that runs on a PC. Some dealers
>use it, and coaching groups etc as its not very exensive. You need lots
>of measurements from your bow set up (tiller, string material/strands
>weight at full draw etc) and the program will print out a list of
>arrows/spines/points etc and their percentage match to your equipment.
>
>Muriel
I don't understand why Easton charge for this program. Surely more people
will buy Eason if they have this program to help them choose an Easton
Arrow.
P.S. Anyone know where the Easton Tech. Builtins are on the web? if they are
not here then why not.
W4LA
Todd
sully430
point in arrow selection. A couple years ago a dealer talked to one of
the gentlemen you cite to get a recommendation for X10s for me to
shoot. (Sky Conquest, 68", 40#, 29" arrows). They came up with 550s.
These were too stiff so I tried 600s. These too were too stiff. I now
shoot 650s and they are a bit stiff. I would have been better off
fletching up a series of X7s (1814, 1914, 2014, etc), found out which
grouped the best, then gone to the Easton chart. As it turns out, 1914
work bests for me andd they are the same spine as 650 X10s.
Back to the first question. What is the best spring tension? Simple,
the best tension is that which gives you the best group. If you have
two different spine arrow sets and can tune both of them with different
spring tensions, still pick the best group. If they are equal I would
go with the stiffer shaft. At 90 meters you may want to use the weaker
shaft (presuming the grouping is equal) because is probably lighter and
will give you a better sight setting.
Bill
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Han Su Kim
downward velocity?
Han Su Kim
Han Su Kim
basically a BBS style discussion. Much more target oriented much more
technical and a lot of top archers in the world (many who are world famous)
hang out there and exchange idaes and discussions.
Han Su Kim
Han Su Kim
Han SU Kim
Marty Sasaki
other asks for all sorts of information and calculates the desired shaft. The
first one isn't too expensive, and the think that second one, the "Arrow Flight
Simulator" is around $50 (but this is from memory). LAS has it, I think, and
Bowhunters Warehouse had them on sale a while ago.
I got the program since I'm a techno-geek and like these sorts of things. I would
be happy to run a few options through the program for anyone that wants me to. I
won't guarentee when I will get to it though, so it might take a while. Send me
some email (ma...@mss.ne.mediaone.net) if you have any questions.
One thing to note though. Some archers report that the recommendations are too
stiff by about an arrow size, so if it says to use an X10 600, that a 650 might
be better.
Easton should probably give this any pro-shop that wants it. It would certainly
make some decisions easier. As an example, I would have seen that the 600 were
weak and that I should have bout 500s.
One last thing. It's really interesting what the Internet is doing to people.
Getting an Easton Technical Bulletin is no harder than calling Easton on the
phone (or maybe your local dealer) and asking for a copy. If there is a charge,
it's usually only a few dollars. If you get it from your local dealer, you can
ask her/him some questions and get some perspective from their experience.
Marty Sasaki
shady...@hotmail.com
> downward velocity?
>
then not necessarily. We're starting to get into the realms of air
resistance and bow efficiency here (faster arrow=greater air
resistance, heavier arrow doesn't lose speed as quickly plus having a
slower initial speed doesn't hit as high an air resistance) so it's not
as simple as it might appear.
If it's weak because it's a smaller shaft size, or you've put your
poundage up, then it might well be moving faster.
shady...@hotmail.com
http://margo.student.utwente.nl/cgi-bin/bb/bb.pl?sagibb
takes you to the current blackboard. There is a searchable history of
past boards.
Miika Aulio
>downward velocity?
?????? Umh, it's lighter..?
MA
Miika Aulio
>Sagitarius ......... soething they caklled ........
>.......idaes
Han, stop drinking!
MA
Han Su Kim
Han Su Kim
MCKRICKLEE
the arrow. If you are shooting a weak or whippy arrow you need to keep the
tension tight so that the front node does not go too far in towards the bow.
If you are shooting too stiff of an arrow, the soft spring tension will help it
go closer to the bow. If the two nodes are lined up properly, you will get
good arrow flight. If not, you will not group as well as you are capable.
Stiff vs soft plungers: It is correct that most top archers use a stiff arrow.
The main reason is because of less critical performance. If you are shooting
a weak shaft, thus needing a stiff plunger setting, it has the tendency to
react too stiff on a perfect release and too whippy on a poor release. Since
recurve finger shooters have not mastered their release as well as mechanical
releases, suffice it to say you need all the forgiveness you can get. Stay
with a stiff shaft and a soft plunger setting. It is more consistent with our
inconsistent ways!
Bare shaft tuning past 30 meters: all of my 1340 plus scores have been when I
was able to get my bare shaft and fletched shaft to hit the ten ring at all
four distances. Although extremely difficult to do, it was well worth the
effort. This gives you the best reading to make sure that your front and rear
nodes are lined up perfectly. Most people have the tendency to have their
plunger too far out or too far in from the bow. You probably will only notice
a 2 or 3 point difference per end. Of course that ends up to be 46 to 72
points total in the end...
Shaft comparisons: Easton has a chart that compares the different type of
arrows (that they sell) of the same spine versus weight at 29 inches. If you
know the spine of the arrow shaft you can usually get very close to the the
correct arrow size when changing types of arrows (aluminum to carbon for
instance). The two software programs they have are excellent, however, there
are so many variables that come into play that you will still need to use a
comparison chart for the real size for your needs. A good example is if an
archer used a 2114 aluminum arrow, they would need either a 520 or 470 ACE. A
500 X10 would work and of course our own 210 CT Royal would be in the same
category.
Rick
ARC - A.Ron Carmichael
the shaft nodes MORE pronounced, say for practice, vs. competition? Or do
you try to get the shaft as stiff as possible by keeping the tip as light as
possible within some FOC limit?
--
ARC in Lago Vista, TX
There are three kinds of people in the world, those who can count, and those
who can't.
MCKRICKLEE <mckri...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991028170042...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
Ann
>
> Do you ever change (increase) the tip weight of your arrow in order to make
> the shaft nodes MORE pronounced, say for practice, vs. competition?
In order for you to get the nodes in perfect alignment as Rick has
stated, and
for you to get the bare shaft in the group at 90 meters, it requires
extreeme fine tunning, one click at a time on the button, one wrap at a
time on the string, (looking for your arrows at 90 meters, buying more
arrows because you can't find those arrows) changing the point weight,
and then repeating. If you did this type of tunning, you would not want
to change anything for any reason. I have yet to reach this kind of
tunning dedication - maybe thats why my scores aren't 1340 with the
recurve!!!
Also remember, that an arrow has TWO nodes, increasing point weight only
affects (mostly anyway) the front node, you would need to play with the
fletching or knock, or perhaps add some weight to the back to work with
that node.
> Or do
> you try to get the shaft as stiff as possible by keeping the tip as light as
> possible within some FOC limit?
Most setup's I've seen have gone to heavier point weights, not lighter,
more down range stability in a wind. I don't know all the ins and outs
of setting up heavy points in ACE's, but maybe Rick will elaborate, or
set me straight. I'm still learning about arrows, tunning, and all this
stuff, even after 10 years of shooting ACE's.
Hope this helps!!
Ann
Vittorio Frangilli
>
> Bare shaft tuning past 30 meters: all of my 1340 plus scores have been
when I
> was able to get my bare shaft and fletched shaft to hit the ten ring at
all
> four distances. Although extremely difficult to do, it was well worth the
> effort. This gives you the best reading to make sure that your front and
rear
> nodes are lined up perfectly. Most people have the tendency to have their
> plunger too far out or too far in from the bow. You probably will only
notice
> a 2 or 3 point difference per end. Of course that ends up to be 46 to 72
> points total in the end...
>
>
I agree it is extremelly difficult to get the bare shaft impacting with
others at the 4 distances, but not impossible. However, this does not ever
give the best grouping, so after it you also have to get back to the
distance were you want to get the best result ( i.e. 70 mt ) and work on
grouping ( not to forget shaft selection, too)
Usually, the best group is with a slightly stiff setting ( not arrow,
setting only), meaning that a perfectly matched arrow+bow combination should
give you the possibility to get your bare shaft from right to left of the
fletched shafts just by the way of the plunger adjustement. This can never
be achieved with a strong plunger spring, but by the weeker one, only (let
say, the weekest of the 3 in a Beiter set). That means, if you use a strong
plunger spring ( not plunger tension..) forget the possibility to shoot
1300+...
Vittorio
MCKRICKLEE
you try to get the shaft as stiff as possible by keeping the tip as light as
possible within some FOC limit? >>
Although this has been answered well, I would like to remind you that this
style of archery is very intensive training. You try to set everything up like
you would in a competition and practice, practice, practice. You want to be
very comfortable and confident in your equipment at a competition. The more
comfortable and confident you are, the better your shooting will be. If just
one little tiny element goes out of place, your confidence can erode and your
performance will plummet. Watch any of the top archers and they can have a
"bad" day. So, to answer your question, no, you would not change anything.
Also, you do not try to get the shaft as stiff as possible. You are trying to
get the shaft tune to the ultimate with favoring a stiff shaft setting or
reaction. FOC is an on going argument that will probably never be answered.
Is it important and to what level of importance should it be considered
compared to tune, proper brace height, proper plunger tension and alignment,
etc. The tests that I made with FOC were so inconclusive, that I put it in a
range of 7% up to 15% is a good FOC. What is more important is your clearance,
your tune and your brace height.
>>Most setup's I've seen have gone to heavier point weights, not lighter,
more down range stability in a wind. I don't know all the ins and outs
of setting up heavy points in ACE's, but maybe Rick will elaborate, or
set me straight. I'm still learning about arrows, tunning, and all this
stuff, even after 10 years of shooting ACE's.<<
This is correct when using a barrelled shaft. You need that extra weight to
stabilize the light weight and the uneven weight distribution. Unfortunately,
most people do not remember the old AC arrows Easton developed in 1983 era and
of course the aluminum shaft. These arrows only needed 7 to 9 percent FOC for
great stability. The ACE just would not group well with light FOC. Usually
you were pushing around 12 to 15 %. On a shorter arrow you favored a very
heavy point in order to control a stick being launched! Imagine it like a rock
with a string behind it. The point being the rock and the shaft being the
string. The Beman and Carbon Tech arrows do not need so much FOC due to the
straight shaft design and equal weight distribution along the entire shaft.
>>I agree it is extremelly difficult to get the bare shaft impacting with
others at the 4 distances, but not impossible. However, this does not ever
give the best grouping, so after it you also have to get back to the
distance were you want to get the best result ( i.e. 70 mt ) and work on
grouping ( not to forget shaft selection, too)<<
I agree with you here, except I have found that if I can get the "perfect" tune
as I described earlier, I have been able to shoot incredible scores at 70
meters. Remember, that I said I was only able to get this perfect tune every
once in a while (4 times = 1340, 1346, 1347 and 1352). Usually I was able to
hit blue or black at 90 meters thus ending in 1300 to 1320 range. I know that
these scores are a bit extreme, but keep it relative. If you can hit the
target at 50 meters with your bare shaft and are averaging 1100, then keep
working on the form and keep experimenting (while you are training) on your
tune. You will continue to increase your scores by the training and by the
tune.
>>Usually, the best group is with a slightly stiff setting ( not arrow,
setting only), meaning that a perfectly matched arrow+bow combination should
give you the possibility to get your bare shaft from right to left of the
fletched shafts just by the way of the plunger adjustement.<<
This is where I was before I hit the higher plateau. I believe your son will
hit close to 1375 when he achieves that "perfect" tune. When I was tuning for
a slightly stiff set up I was able to stay consistently in the 1300's, but my
best was around 1334. Since your son hits a bit higher with the slightly stiff
tune, he will shoot higher that I was able to achieve. I am excited to see
that day. Say, maybe around September of 2000? :)
Alex Rodriguez
says...
>Bare shaft tuning past 30 meters: all of my 1340 plus scores have been when I
>was able to get my bare shaft and fletched shaft to hit the ten ring at all
>four distances. Although extremely difficult to do, it was well worth the
>effort. This gives you the best reading to make sure that your front and rear
>nodes are lined up perfectly. Most people have the tendency to have their
>plunger too far out or too far in from the bow. You probably will only notice
>a 2 or 3 point difference per end. Of course that ends up to be 46 to 72
>points total in the end...
Whats the best way to get your plunger located just right on the bow. I recall
reading that you want the plunger set up so that when sighting the string down
the center of the limbs the shaft point is just to the outside of the string.
Is there a more accurate, and repeatable, way to do this?
--
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)
Steve Ellison
>I agree with you here, except I have found that if I can get the "perfect" tune
>as I described earlier, I have been able to shoot incredible scores at 70
>meters. Remember, that I said I was only able to get this perfect tune every
>once in a while (4 times = 1340, 1346, 1347 and 1352). Usually I was able to
>hit blue or black at 90 meters thus ending in 1300 to 1320 range. I know that
>these scores are a bit extreme, but keep it relative. If you can hit the
>target at 50 meters with your bare shaft and are averaging 1100, then keep
>working on the form and keep experimenting (while you are training) on your
>tune. You will continue to increase your scores by the training and by the
>tune.
This may be a daft question, but was it you or the bow? I find (at a
subtly different score level ;-)) that the quality of my shooting has
big effects on my tuning - but not the other way about. I have to be
shooting cleanly to get best tune. So was the tuning driving the
score, or the score driving the shooting?
MCKRICKLEE
recall
reading that you want the plunger set up so that when sighting the string down
the center of the limbs the shaft point is just to the outside of the string.
Is there a more accurate, and repeatable, way to do this? >>
Alex, What you state is correct as an initial setup. Next you need to do the
usual bare shaft tune method by shooting fletched and bare shafts at 20 meters.
Once you get your setup tuned, then move back to 30 meters. Watch the bare
shaft flight as it travels to the target. If it goes straight into the middle,
go back to 50 meters. What you are looking for is the shaft traveling straight
to the target and not arcing from right to left or left to right. Although a
bare shaft may impact in the center, how it gets there is the key. If it arcs
out from the bow as it leaves and then comes back to the right in order to hit
center ,then your plunger is too far out from the riser (right handed archers.
Left handed think of the mirror image). If the arrow arcs to the right as it
leaves the bow and then comes back to the left, move the plunger out away from
the riser a bit. You will have to adjust the spring tension the opposite
direction that you move the plunger. Eventually you should be able to get the
shaft to fly straight and true all the way to the center.
The reason there is no absolute way to set this up is because of the riser and
limbs. Although they may appear to be perfect while sitting motionless, once
you draw the bow back, there can be some twist in the limb pocket, in the limb
itself or in the entire riser which goes undetected when just sitting there.
This is for real finite tuning by the way. Also, remember that when you set up
the string, limbs and bow to look perfect, someone else looking at the same
thing will tell you it is off a bit. That is why you need to fine tune the
setup.
Rick
Marty Sasaki
a while. A bare shaft is going to be lighter yet will act like a
weaker spined arrow since there is no fletching on the back end.
I would therefore expect that a bare shaft tune would result in the
bare shaft going slightly to the right. At longer distances, the bare
shaft should strike the target higher, both for the lighter weight
(more speed), and the lack of wind resistance (drag) on the shaft.
I would imagine that adding some weight to the nock end of the arrow
that was equal to the weight of the fletching would be a better match
to fletched arrows.
So, why do most people use a plain bare shaft? Or do they really add
the weights?
I'm willing to hear, "because it works", but I'm interested to learn
the why behind this.
Thanks in advance.
Marty Sasaki
ARC - A.Ron Carmichael
the drag effect of the fletching? (drag effect is equivalent to weight/mass
in this respect, I suspect<G>)
Man, how do you separate the two? We need an aerodynamic engineer here!
--
ARC in Lago Vista, TX
You sound reasonable...Time to up my medication.
Marty Sasaki <ma...@mss.ne.mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:2olT3.508$X76....@wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net...
MCKRICKLEE
subtly different score level ;-)) that the quality of my shooting has
big effects on my tuning - but not the other way about. I have to be
shooting cleanly to get best tune. So was the tuning driving the
score, or the score driving the shooting?
>>
Steve, Thanks for the compliments. I agree that the "rich get richer".
However, I sincerely believe that the better the tune I was able to achieve,
the better the score IF I was shooting well. That is why I mentioned in the
same post (I believe) that it is relative. If your performance is 1100 scores
keep trying to improve your form with your tune. Tuning your bow with a bare
shaft is good feedback to form consistency. If you can get your bare shafts
consistently in a particular spot, you are on your way to good form
consistency. The fletch stabilizes the arrow. With a really good shot (and no
wind!), there is no (or very little) reason for the fletch. Now having said
all of this, I highly recommend to shoot close shots with the bare shaft. Do
not go back to the long distances until you are sure they will hit the target!
I worked with an archer at one time and her bare shaft barely hit the target at
30 meters. The shaft was stiff. I told her it was fine for now. Let's work on
form. She worked on form and the smoother she got, she was able to go back to
50 meters and do the same thing. She started at 1000 level (bare shaft hitting
30 meters). She eventually went up to 1100 (bare shaft hitting at 50 meters).
Now she shoots 1200's and she can bare shaft back to 70 meters.
MCKRICKLEE
a while. A bare shaft is going to be lighter yet will act like a
weaker spined arrow since there is no fletching on the back end. >>
Hi Marty :)
I usually tune with the Spin Wing tape on the back. With the wrap still
attached to the tape, it weighs about the same as Spin Wings. Thus the weight
is fairly accurate. When you are using the rubber vanes you would need to add
some metal tape or something back there in order to get close to the same
weight. Most people use the plain bare shaft because it is easier and they are
not trying to perect their tune at this time. It could be due to knowledge,
not believing it will make enough difference or something, but generally
speaking most top archers use some weight back there.
Steve Ellison
It's not unheard of for people to add a layer of insulating tape at
the back end of the bare shaft to get the balance identical to a
fletched shaft. And I met an engineer with some interesting kit that
showed that the rear node moves around a surprising amount with tape
added or removed.
But on the whole, if they're coming out near straight, the balance
change makes little difference, I suspect. Most people won't be able
to tell, though I have not done the experiment. And a bare shaft test
is only that - a test. It tests how straight the nodal plane is
(allegedly); it doesn't test the group size. They may be related (see
mcricklee's earlier post & my response) but there's no guarantee like
tuning for groups!
On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 18:57:02 GMT, Marty Sasaki
<ma...@mss.ne.mediaone.net> wrote:
>This talk of bare shaft tuning brings up a question that I've had for
>a while. A bare shaft is going to be lighter yet will act like a
>weaker spined arrow since there is no fletching on the back end.
>
shady...@hotmail.com
"ARC - A.Ron Carmichael" <a...@inetport.com> wrote:
> does the stabilizing effect of the fletches on the path of the arrow
offset
> the drag effect of the fletching? (drag effect is equivalent to
weight/mass
> in this respect, I suspect<G>)
> Man, how do you separate the two? We need an aerodynamic engineer
here!
stabilizes the flight of an arrow, that's why we fletch them! Think
about it. With an arrow in flight, there are only two forces acting;
gravity and drag. While gravity will eventually stabilize the arrow
(can't get more stable than lying on the ground! :-]), the only thing
which will do it in the air is drag. That's why you need larger
fletchings on broadhead arrows, to keep the centre of pressure towards
the back of the arrow. Choosing fletching size is a compromise between
stability and arrow speed, bearing in mind that if an arrow loses too
much speed down range, it will "float" in the breeze with a
corresponding decrease in accuracy.
Incidentally, did you know that an unfletched shaft does not
necessarily fly straight? I've seen this in action with an extremely
poorly matched system. A bare shaft would start out flying straight
towards a target set at 30M then curve off course so much that it would
miss the boss! This is apparently predicted by some of the mathematics
in the aerodynamics of cylinders, but I saw it in action before I heard
about the math.
William Pearson
MCKRICKLEE wrote:
> Once you get your setup tuned, then move back to 30 meters. Watch the bare
> shaft flight as it travels to the target.
Well Rick there is a first time for everything.. Never before have I
ever heard a top form shooter tell anyone to PEEK! Am I missing
something here???
--
S&B Enterprises Sunland,CA. 91040
E-mail:buff...@jps.net Chat:ICQ:7349522
'..the MOUNTAINS are calling and I must go! <John Muir>
Dean
William Pearson <buff...@jps.net> wrote in message
news:381F0C2C...@jps.net...
>
>
> MCKRICKLEE wrote:
>
> > Once you get your setup tuned, then move back to 30 meters. Watch the
bare
> > shaft flight as it travels to the target.
>
> Well Rick there is a first time for everything.. Never before have I
> ever heard a top form shooter tell anyone to PEEK! Am I missing
> something here???
>
You don't have to watch the arrow your self. Get a friend to watch for you
MCKRICKLEE
ever heard a top form shooter tell anyone to PEEK! Am I missing
something here???
>>
HA! That's pretty good...anyway, just have a friend watch the flight or watch
without moving your head. I do it all the time. Get in trouble with my coach,
but sometimes we fudge to get results we are looking for. :)
By the way, you would be surprised of other things I have done to get the
results! ;)
LFrene4599
a weaker lighter shaft does not alway go faster then the RIGHT shaft... most of
the time all the kenetic's are used up in the spline of the shaft,,, making it
slower than the more heavy riged shaft