tuning with finger release
Michael Burling
I normally shoot with a mechanical release, but got curious about shooting
with fingers. I haven't been able to paper tune as close with fingers as
with a release. The closest I can paper tune with fingers is down to about a
1" tear. Is this normal or can finger shooters paper tune closer than 1" and
if you can, what arrow rest are you using?
Mike
William Pearson
With either a release or fingers I found I make the same 'bullet hole'
in paper. I have, however, been shooting for almost 40 years and
developed a very smooth release. In actuallity, most finger shooters ,
so called, perfect tear is an approximate 45 degree tear to the up and
left through paper of about an inch. I only use paper as a very quick
starting point anyway. If using a plunger (Rarely) I tune the bow with
the Vic Berger style. I shoot (and most always have) a springy rest. I
find this a very foregiving and quick setup rest.
As a certified instructor, I find there is usually to much time spent
on dialing the bow, and not enough on form. Just my opinion..
Hope this helped a bit,
wPm
--
S&B Enterprises Sunland,CA. 91040
Fax/Ans/Phn:(818) 951-0274
E-mail:buff...@jps.net Chat:ICQ:7349522
'..the MOUNTAINS are calling and I must go! <John Muir>
Irishhill1
My name is Andy and I own an archery store here in Rochester, New York. I
read your message and I have some advise for you. It is not you. Finger
shooting is VERY hard to master. The littlest movement in the string will
cause the shot to have a different some form of varience. You have a good tear
with what you are shooting now and you will get better with more practice. It
is very hard to master. Good luck and dont get discouraged. If you need
anything or need prices on any equipment please drop me a line and I would love
to have you as a customer.
Sincerely,
Andrew W. Bansbach
Owner: Irish Hill Archery
Marty Sasaki
useless. Because of the gyrations that an arrow goes through
recovering from the forces of a a finger release, you will get
different tears depending on how far away the bow is from the paper.
Better to use the bare shaft tuning method. Here you shoot a bunch of
fletched arrows, then a bare shaft. You adjust things until the bare
shaft shoots into the same place as the fletched arrows.
Marty Sasaki
bub
hard to find).
IMO the best spring rest is the Model SR-1, made by BPE, Inc., Emporia, KS.
Phone 316.343.3783. This item is really hard to find.
Michael Burling wrote:
> I normally shoot with a mechanical release, but got curious about shooting
> with fingers. I haven't been able to paper tune as close with fingers as
> with a release. The closest I can paper tune with fingers is down to about a
> 1" tear. Is this normal or can finger shooters paper tune closer than 1" and
> if you can, what arrow rest are you using?
>
> Mike
Dick F.
"Michael Burling" <mike...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> I normally shoot with a mechanical release, but got curious about
shooting
> with fingers. I haven't been able to paper tune as close with fingers
as
> with a release. The closest I can paper tune with fingers is down to
about a
> 1" tear. Is this normal or can finger shooters paper tune closer than
1" and
> if you can, what arrow rest are you using?
>
> Mike
>
fingers. Most tabs I have used tend to shrink when wet and then I
sometimes catch the tips of my fingers on the string. I tried a
Saunders Fab Tab (the slick plastic one) because it's waterproof. I
found, for me anyway, that the slick plastic gave me a more uniform
release and reduced my group size and made paper testing more uniform.
Also, the plastic lasts a lot longer than hair tabs. However,
eventually the plastic will wear and get a little rough. When it does,
replace it. The rough plastic will trash your groups.
I have tried a number of rests and find that my release has a much
larger effect on group size than the type of rest.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
William Pearson
Marty Sasaki wrote:
>
> Many folks think that paper tuning while shooting with fingers is
> useless. Because of the gyrations that an arrow goes through
> recovering from the forces of a a finger release, you will get
> different tears depending on how far away the bow is from the paper.
I always start and finish the paper test at 6 feet from the paper. I
certainly do not rely on it. I also, dont rely on any other so-called
methods. I shoot for groups at ALL distances. Must work I just shot a
290 indoor (possible 300) using pins and fingers.
> Better to use the bare shaft tuning method. Here you shoot a bunch of
> fletched arrows, then a bare shaft. You adjust things until the bare
> shaft shoots into the same place as the fletched arrows.
Not really Marty..if using aluminum shafts they will bend.(and I do use
aluminum)if shot out of compunds at close ranges. Works fine with the
newer carbon stuff though.
I usually do it the old and tried way. Get someone I trust, shoot many
dozens of shots and have him/her watch arrow flight. Then shoot for
groups from 10 feet to 100 yards..after a couple days of that..get
serious.. hehehe Everyone has a perfect way of doing things, except when
I try them with my bow. and YOU?
wPm
--
S&B Enterprises Sunland,CA. 91040
David Egalton
starting point.
A finger shooting archer, either recurve or compound, should be able to get
a paper tear down to about half an inch. However, for the finger shooter,
the most important part is to get an horizontal tear showing that the
nocking point is positioned correctly. There areother bow tuning processes
to go through after that. See the Easton Bow Tuning guide for macro and
micro bow tuning.
Hope this helps
Dave.
Michael Burling <mike...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:6log4.2916$%Y3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
fred s
"Michael Burling" <mike...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>I normally shoot with a mechanical release, but got curious about shooting
>with fingers. I haven't been able to paper tune as close with fingers as
>with a release. The closest I can paper tune with fingers is down to about a
>1" tear. Is this normal or can finger shooters paper tune closer than 1" and
>if you can, what arrow rest are you using?
If you have ever seen slow motion video of arrows leaving a bow you will
understand why I think that paper tuning is at best a rough tune when
using fingers. An archer, using a mechanical release can achieve a tune
where the arrow leaves the bow almost perfectly straight. This is not
possible for a finger shooter.
The video I saw the other day showed Butch Johnson's arrow bending like a
snake as it left the bow. Some of the compound release shooters missed the
point of the video. They made comments like; what a lousy release, his
arrows are way to week. My remark was; how many Olympic Teams have you
been on? ... do you know who he is? ... watch the path of the string ..
Paper tuning only records the arrow's flight at a given distance from the
bow. When an arrow is "snaking" its way to the gold, as it does with
finger shooters, paper tuning does not work. Get a perfect tear at 1'
and then back up to 5' and then 10' ... Bet the tear changes
(with fingers). Watching slow motion video captured at extremely high
frames rate shows this to be a fact. Arrows shot from a recurve with
fingers "snake" their way to the gold. I can see it on my plain jane
video camera when I play it back frame by frame.
Bare shaft tuning is a better starting point.
Marty Sasaki
> I always start and finish the paper test at 6 feet from the paper. I
> certainly do not rely on it. I also, dont rely on any other so-called
> methods. I shoot for groups at ALL distances. Must work I just shot a
> 290 indoor (possible 300) using pins and fingers.
My point is, why bother? Because of the "archer's paradox" paper
tuning won't tell you anything until the arrow has finished most of
it's wild gyration. A paper tune at 20 yards might tell you something
though.
You have to have some sort of methodology to tuning. "Tuning for
groups" is meaningless unless you know what to do to tighten the
group. You use some sort of methodology to get tight groups.
> Not really Marty..if using aluminum shafts they will bend.(and I do use
> aluminum)if shot out of compunds at close ranges. Works fine with the
> newer carbon stuff though.
First I'm assuming a reasonable arrow match. Next, I'm assuming a
reasonable starting point for the nocking point, and a reasonable
setting for the centershot.
Lastly do the tune starting at 20 yards. If you end up with bent
arrows then your setup isn't to the point where you should be
attempting to tune it.
> I usually do it the old and tried way. Get someone I trust, shoot many
> dozens of shots and have him/her watch arrow flight. Then shoot for
> groups from 10 feet to 100 yards..after a couple days of that..get
> serious.. hehehe Everyone has a perfect way of doing things, except when
> I try them with my bow. and YOU?
The old ways are often the best. If it works, then there is no reason
to change. And of course your method is a "so-called method".
However, the original poster asked about paper tuning with a finger
release, and I do think that it is worthless. Many others, including
lots of world class archers recommend the bare shaft planning
method. Some of the top FITA archers do the bare shaft tuning out to
70 meters when they want things set up exactly right.
Different folks have different ways of doing things and I find the
bare shaft tuning method is quick and easy to do. Once I'm in the
right ballpark using this, I then make small changes to tighten
groups.
I've seen folks to a paper tune with no tears and then watched their
arrows doing all sorts of gyrations on their way to the target...
Marty Sasaki
Ronny Yurong
his/her way to tune and shoot that works will do fine. Some of the best
shooters makes up their own tinkering to get the best results.
>I've seen folks to a paper tune with no tears and then watched their
>arrows doing all sorts of gyrations on their way to the target...
>
Ronny Yurong Sr.
Sean Tam
Marty Sasaki <ma...@mss.ne.mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> Better to use the bare shaft tuning method. Here you shoot a bunch of
> fletched arrows, then a bare shaft. You adjust things until the bare
> shaft shoots into the same place as the fletched arrows.
>
The fletched arrow is stiffer than the bare shaft. To compensate this,
you could put tape (e.g. the ones for electrical wiring) at the end of
the bare shaft. You start with a longer tape, and then gradually cut it
until the bare shaft have the same FOC (i.e. balance point) as the
fletched arrow.
John Cryar
everybody the paper tuning is the only/best method to tune a bow! What most
archers miss is the part that tells them that the results depend ENTIRELY on
the archer's release.... good release good results on paper. Poor release,
poor results. After dealing with it for the better part of twenty years, it
is my professional opinion that most people, especially those who shoot
fingers, are better off bare shaft tuning first and then, when they feel
they've got the best combination of arrow and bow settings, go to the range
and enjoy a good session of practicing their form as they fine tune their
equipment. I have seen far too many good archers get so wrapped up in
tuning that they forget that archery is supposed to be fun! BOHICA! John
C.
Richard White
I also agree with the above. Finger shooting or release....paper
tuning is not the definative arrow tuning method. Getting a bullet
hole at 2 yards or even 10 yards proves nothing except that the arrrow
is straight or not straight at that point on its journey. It may have
a psychological advantage but I'm not qualfied to make a judgement.
I've seen many archers who sneak a look at their arrows to make sure
they are not wobbling too much and then start tuning from there. What
many forget is that the groups are dependent upon how the arrow is
shot in the first place. Inconsistency at the shooting line means
inconsistent scoring. You don't win trophies for well tamed arrow
flight.
I prefer to make sure there are no really serious collision problems
between fletches and rest etc and then go to tweaking at say 50 yards
for best groups. Initial rough tuning is by bare shaft method as
mentioned by others.
Ronny Yurong
sport in your own speed and way you thing is OK. Get help along the way. At
our range all one need to do is ask and a handfull will be willing to help.
Ronny
Ronny Yurong Sr.
Marty Sasaki
> ... What most
> archers miss is the part that tells them that the results depend ENTIRELY on
> the archer's release.... good release good results on paper. Poor release,
> poor results.
While I agree that a good release is a good thing, and a poor release
is a not so good thing, I do disagree that a good release will give
you a good paper tune.
As it leaves the bow, an arrow goes through some pretty wild
gyrations. I'm not sure of the exact magnitude of the bending, but
judging from the Beiter video "The Way to the Center" the shaft must
be bending up to an inch as it snakes around the bow.
Marty Sasaki
Marty Sasaki
> The fletched arrow is stiffer than the bare shaft. To compensate this,
> you could put tape (e.g. the ones for electrical wiring) at the end of
> the bare shaft. You start with a longer tape, and then gradually cut it
> until the bare shaft have the same FOC (i.e. balance point) as the
> fletched arrow.
If you are using spin wings or kurly vanes, you can actually tape the
vanes flat to the shaft. The tape that you use to hold them in place
is similar to the weight of the double sided tape used to normally
attach the vanes in place. This does increase the drag slightly, but
this increase is probably not significant.
Marty Sasaki
shady...@hotmail.com
of arrows hitting the target, I'd say they carry on "snaking" for quite
a distance. A bullet hole on paper tuning for a finger release archer
is going to be a lottery at best...
John Cryar
about ten years ago and it was absolutely amazing what the arrow AND bow
went through! You're right, the arrow really gets it on leaving the bow,
and it's much more severe when using fingers. That said, what I wrote
should not be taken literally...i.e., the cleanest possible release from
either fingers or a mechanical method will produce better results than a
sloppy release.
Marty Sasaki wrote in message ...
>John Cryar <jwc...@primenet.com> wrote:
>> ... What most
>> archers miss is the part that tells them that the results depend ENTIRELY
on
>> the archer's release.... good release good results on paper. Poor
release,
>> poor results.
>
>While I agree that a good release is a good thing, and a poor release
>is a not so good thing, I do disagree that a good release will give
>you a good paper tune.
>
>As it leaves the bow, an arrow goes through some pretty wild
>gyrations. I'm not sure of the exact magnitude of the bending, but
>judging from the Beiter video "The Way to the Center" the shaft must
>be bending up to an inch as it snakes around the bow.
>
>
>
>
>
Peter Heyman
<ma...@mss.ne.mediaone.net> wrote:
>John Cryar <jwc...@primenet.com> wrote:
>> ... What most
>> archers miss is the part that tells them that the results depend ENTIRELY on
>> the archer's release.... good release good results on paper. Poor release,
>> poor results.
>
>While I agree that a good release is a good thing, and a poor release
>is a not so good thing, I do disagree that a good release will give
>you a good paper tune.
>
>As it leaves the bow, an arrow goes through some pretty wild
>gyrations. I'm not sure of the exact magnitude of the bending, but
>judging from the Beiter video "The Way to the Center" the shaft must
>be bending up to an inch as it snakes around the bow.
>
> Marty Sasaki
I have been watching this thread for a while to see where it heads. My
2 cents worth.
I shoot fingers with a light bow. 36# recurve at my draw.
I also have been shooting for some 35 years and tried a number of
tuning methods.
None of the methods have been without fault, including paper tune.
I have used paper tune with good results.
It may not be the best method, but it is a very good starting point or
for me a good finishing point ( I want to shoot arrows, not spend
hours making adjustments to tuning).
Normal FITA scores for me 1180 to 1240.
Personal best 1285.
Cheers, Peter
From Y2K Olympic city, Sydney
Cheers, Peter
phe...@one.net.au
Dan
results.
I use a Judo head and shoot in an open field, no bent arrows unless you are
WAY out of tune.
Start with a fletched shaft, graduate to a shaft with fletching trimmed to
the base for minimal guidance, then final tune with a bare shaft.
Dan
LFrene4599
paper tune is nice way to start tuning but it isnt the end of tuneing.. and if
your shooing fingers dont ever expect a bullet hole in paper,,, in fact even a
release shooter that has a perfict hole a 8 ft wont have it at 6 ft nore
10ft.... the parodox of the arrow is to great to say a bow is uned just because
it sot a hole in paper... best way to tune is make your ajustments so the bow
shoots good for you,,, not for the paper
J. Paul Bissonnette
is going to work
Paul
Michael Burling wrote:
> I normally shoot with a mechanical release, but got curious about shooting
> with fingers. I haven't been able to paper tune as close with fingers as
> with a release. The closest I can paper tune with fingers is down to about a
> 1" tear. Is this normal or can finger shooters paper tune closer than 1" and
> if you can, what arrow rest are you using?
>
> Mike
--
Henry Etteldorf
expect a perfect tear. Up/down seams to show good results but left/right is
always vague. I am a bow hunter and so tune so my broadheads and field
points hit the same place. (Making sure the two heads are matched as
closely as possible).
I shoot 1 broadhead tipped arrow, then the field point. I move the rest so
the broadhead hits where the field point does. It is an extremely easy
method to use and easy to understand. It gives me good flight and grouping
with both types of heads. Good enough to make my shooting buddies jealous
and my supply of arrows with shot off nocks growing.
If I made money with my shooting I might get a lot more particular. If I
didn't hunt I would use bare shafts, maybe with a weight added to replace
the weight of the fletch/vane.
I have two general rules
1. keep it simple
2. worry about the end product, not how you get there.
