Moses was probably Pharaoh Amenmesse
Avatar
but there seems to be an excellent contest of ideas
based on different beliefs
which is causing frustration on all parties
trying to project ideas from incompatable sources.
Since I am an Avatar, I will bud in this one time.
I do not have the qualifications to be an archaeologist,
I didn't read the 3 books (maybe I will, maybe not)
the best archaeological work I did was digging up clay pipes along the Erie
Canal.
But archaeology does fasinate me so I will throw a bone in the pot with an
article
published recently in WORLD PRESS REVIEW · DECEMBER 1997.
I hope you solve the delema!
He He!!! :)
Avatar
Was Moses Really Pharaoh?
The war crown rises like a giant eggplant on the head of the 3,200-year-old
quartzite statue. The face of a young pharaoh, with big eyes and a soft
smile, stares out below it, looking almost melancholy. Appearances are
deceptive. King Amenmesse was the leader of a coup that he hoped would
overthrow the most powerful empire of antiquity. Moreover, he may have been
the model for the biblical miracle worker who parted the Red Sea and
delivered the Ten Commandments from Mount Sinai: Moses.
For the last 20 years, Rolf Krauss, a scientist at the Egyptian Museum in
Berlin, has been looking into the life and times of Amenmesse, about whom
little was known. His conclusion: In the early 13th century BC, Amenmesse,
then only 25, tried to depose his own father, Pharaoh Seti II, from the
throne. The result was four long years of bloody civil war. But the
usurper's unusual background cor responds exactly with details of the
legends of Moses in early historical writings, and Krauss theorizes that
the writer of the biblical book of Exodus used Amenmesse's exploits to
create a heroic past for the Jewish people.
This spring, Krauss presented his daring hypothesis to an audience of
experts on the Old Testament, archeologists, and Egyptologists. They
listened as the researcher stood conventional wisdom about the biblical
patriarch on its head. Did an Egyptian lead the Jews into the Promised
Land? "The theory is plausible," says Heidelberg Egyptologist Friederike
Seyfried.
The heart of the Old Testament now seems to be a blend of fantasies: real
personages caught in pseudo-historical universes, fiction and chronicles
blended beyond unraveling. Archeologists have cast new light on the Old
Testament in recent years. To summarize their findings:
The exodus of the Jewish tribes out of Egypt is a fiction.
The immense kingdom of David, stretching from the Euphrates to the
Mediterranean, never existed.
Canaan was never conquered by Israelite armies.
The five Books of Moses—the Pentateuch—were not written in the 10th cen
tury B.C., but 500 years later.
Until just a few years ago, many people believed that Moses, roughly
3,300years ago, really did unite the 12 Tribes of Israel and bring them out
of Egyptian captivity.
In Exodus 1:11, it is told that the Jews had to make bricks for the
construction of the "storehouse cities of Pithom and Ramses." But Edgar
Pusch, an Egyptol ogist from Hildesheim, has been digging on the sites of
Ramses for 10 years. He has discovered no traces of any Hebrew forced
laborers. Nor is there any evidence for other episodes of the biblical
exodus, including Joshua's conquest of the land of Canaan, culminating with
the toppling of the walls of Jericho. For years, Israeli excavators have
been looking without success for evidence of an Iron Age military campaign
in Palestine.
Nor is there much sign of the realm of King David, traditionally seen as
the author of the chronicles of Moses. This kingdom may have existed, but
only for a short time and covering a much smaller area than previously
accepted. The tale of Exodus and the legend of the Kingdom of David, says
Heidelberg Old Testament scholar Bernd Jorg Diebner, "were retrojections of
dreams of great power into the historical past."
Krauss agrees on this point. According to his theories, the main author of
the books of Moses, known as "the Yahwist," was a post-exile Jew, more
prophet than historian, who wove a heroic, unified past for his people:
Chosen by God, they had conquered the Promised Land. This was a work of
propaganda that was intended to compensate for their real political misery.
Krauss believes the Yahwist looked for an important historical personage to
use as the main figure of his legend of the Exodus, and found the "raw
material for his story" in the writings of Manetho, a scholar writing at
the time of Alexander. His three-volume history of Egypt includes the story
of Amenmesse, who led the coup against the Pharaoh.
In the Bible, there are only a few facts about Moses: He grew up as the
adoptive son of pharaoh's daughter, married a Nubian, and had to leave
Egypt after being accused of murder. But the writings of Philo Byblius and
Flavius Josephus, both Hellenistic Jews, and rabbinic texts offer a more
detailed portrait. Here Moses is described as "an Egyptian prince" who, in
the 13th century BC, ruled Nubia for 10 years as the pharaoh's viceroy.
After a bitter fight over the throne, he was forced into exile. One detail:
Moses' parents were related as aunt and nephew.
This unusual biography corresponds exactly to that of Pharaoh Amenmesse.
Using new hieroglyphic evidence, Krauss has found that Amenmesse ruled
Cush, the gold-rich province south of the present Aswan Dam, for several
years as a "viceroy" and married a Cushite princess. Amenmesse's father,
Pharaoh Seti II, was married to his own aunt, Tachat. After his father took
power, the son revolted and seized control of the southern part of Egypt.
He set himself up as king. Only after a bloody war was Seti II able to
defeat his rebellious son.
For a growing number of biblical scholars, such theories sound fine. Niels
Peter Lemche, an Old Testament expert in Copenhagen, calls the writers of
the Bible "novelists." "The Old Testament is written like a fairy tale,"
says Dieboer. "It is useless as a history book."
—"Der Spiegel" (liberal newsmagazine), Hamburg, June 23, 1997.
WORLD PRESS REVIEW · DECEMBER 1997 35
the Exodus: Early propaganda?
Bob and Suzanne Kessler
Avatar, you are kind to bring this in to the talk. It is extremely
interesting. Very interesting.
Suzanne
Avatar wrote in message <01bdcf19$71b71d80$bfbad3cf@seer>...
Nubkhas
>
>The war crown rises like a giant eggplant on the head of the 3,200-year-old
>quartzite statue. The face of a young pharaoh, with big eyes and a soft
>smile, stares out below it, looking almost melancholy. Appearances are
>deceptive. King Amenmesse was the leader of a coup that he hoped would
>overthrow the most powerful empire of antiquity. Moreover, he may have been
>the model for the biblical miracle worker who parted the Red Sea and
>delivered the Ten Commandments from Mount Sinai: Moses.
>
>For the last 20 years, Rolf Krauss, a scientist at the Egyptian Museum in
>Berlin, has been looking into the life and times of Amenmesse, about whom
>little was known. His conclusion: In the early 13th century BC, Amenmesse,
>then only 25, tried to depose his own father, Pharaoh Seti II, from the
>throne. The result was four long years of bloody civil war. But the
>usurper's unusual background cor responds exactly with details of the
>legends of Moses in early historical writings, and Krauss theorizes that
>the writer of the biblical book of Exodus used Amenmesse's exploits to
>create a heroic past for the Jewish people.
>
>This spring, Krauss presented his daring hypothesis to an audience of
>experts on the Old Testament, archeologists, and Egyptologists. They
>listened as the researcher stood conventional wisdom about the biblical
>patriarch on its head. Did an Egyptian lead the Jews into the Promised
>Land? "The theory is plausible," says Heidelberg Egyptologist Friederike
>Seyfried.
As it happened, this past spring I posted this here:
Re: Who was the Exodus Pharaoh?
nub...@aol.com
Date:
1998/05/02
Forums:
soc.history.ancient
(some snipped for brevity, taking about the cast of characters from Artapanus's
"Peri Ioudion" and about Herodotus saying how the son of a pharaoh supposed to
be Ramesses II was a blind man named "Pheros")
Merenptah had the throne name of "Baenre-merynetjeru". The first part of this
name was possibly slurred in speech to "Bar<"--hence "Pheros" (the "s" is just
what Greeks tack
onto everything). So what could "Palmanothes" have to do with Merenptah?
Well, "bal" means "blind and "manothes" is pretty much how "merynetjeru" would
be pronounced in
Coptic--"menoute"--maybe Late Egyptian, too. Or you could just as well make it
"Balla-Menoute", a LOT of old Egyptian "r's" having become "l's" in Coptic,
this being the fate
of "Baenre".
(So later peoples might have mistakenly thought Merenptah was blind. Or maybe
he was or had something wrong with his sight.)
"Merris", the daughter of Palmanothes, stands a good chance to be Tawosret,
herself, as this queens other name was "Sitre-Meryamun". It would not shock
anybody to know that
Tawosret was the daughter of Merenptah. Josephus, in his account, gives the
name of Pharaoh's daughter as Thermutis, the Greek version of Tawaret, which
is pretty close to
Twosret in sound, if nothing else. In fact, Tawosret was also known as
"Twore", which is exactly how Tawaret would have been pronounced, anyhow.
Next in succession, according to Herodotus, is a "native of Memphis whose name
in the Greek language is Proteus". You may notice, though, that Herodotus does
not call him
the son of the previous "Pheros." Amenmesse succeeded Merenptah and is supposed
to have been an usurper. Why "Proteus"? Proteios, in Greek, means "prime or
chief" and
how this applies to Amenmesse, clearly the "Prince Mousos" of Artapanus, is
not clear at all. Anyhow, there seems to be some mixup as to whether this
"Proteus" is Amenmesse
or Seti II, but Herodotus make this successor a Memphite while Artapanus has
Pharaoh's daughter marrying a someone called Khenephres "who was king over the
regions beyond
Memphis, for at that time there were many kings of Egypt". Strangely enough,
"Kha nefer" IS a name of Memphis. So
"Khenephres" could be merely "The Memphite".
Still, if Amenmesse is to be the "Prince Mousos" of the narrative and the
"adopted son" of Tawosret, "Khanepheres", as described by Artapanus, must be
none other than Seti II, whom Tawosret marries. If one credits Artapanus, he
is probably her half-brother.
Indeed, the mummy of the woman thought to be Queen Tawosret looks very much a
Ramesside lady. Since there is a good chance that Seti II and Amenmesse BOTH
ruled
for a time before Amenmesse disappeared from the scene, there is a good chance
that Amenmesse was the one actually connected with the Delta and Seti II with
the area below Memphis. But one can't be totally sure about this. It could
well be
the other way around.
Since the fate of Amenmesse is nebulous, perhaps he did actually disappear
instead of dying in Egypt and a cult grew up around him as being some sort of
hero and saviour. Perhaps his return was wished for--or he did actually come
back after a time and figured
largely in the affairs of the Semitic people with which he seems to be
connected. Whatever the case, the saga of "Prince Mousos" as told by Artapanus
and the Hebrew Bible resembles a biographical tale from the Middle Kingdom so
closely that one has to
wonder if the very interesting story of Sinuhe was not simply recycled for this
purpose. Sinuhe leaves Egypt in a hurry --so does Moses. Maybe the same could
be said for
Amenmesse. Sinuhe sojourns with Bedouins and adjusts successfully to this
nomadic life--as does Moses. After many years, Sinuhe returns to the court of
the pharaoh and is
warmly welcomed. Moses returns, as well, but his reception is not perceived as
warm. However, he seems always to be "received" by the pharaoh whenever he so
wishes,
nonetheless, indicating that he retains some sort of status at court. Sinuhe
presumably lives out his remaining years happily in Egypt, the land of his
birth. Moses, born in Egypt, too, heads back to the desert and a life of
wandering.