please help with my freshwater angelfish fry (4 days old)

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Ken Cunningham

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Dec 31, 1994, 4:50:40 PM12/31/94
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My freshwater angelfish are laying eggs again!

I've managed to get my angelfish pair to lay again; the male had died a few
months ago, but the female has decided to stop mourning and has taken a
new male mate. I had previously tried to leave eggs in with this female,
but she's shown a propensity to eat 'em, so I've got them scooped out into
a 2.5 gallon aquarium, bare bottom, next to the main tank.

At day 2, about 90% turned into wigglers, and I shook them off the slate onto
the tank bottom. Some have started to swim around the bottom now, and I've seen
one or two make a valiant effort to reach the surface. Most are still wiggling
away on the glass bottom of the aquarium.

I've previously reached this stage of angelfish husbandry before, three or four
times, and always, the fry die about day 6 or 7. Anyone with some experience in
getting over the next few days that would be willing to help me a little here
would be my appreciated.

The tank is 78 degrees, there is a trace of methylene blue still in the water.
The tank is bare. I have been doing 50% water changes daily, using water from
the main aquarium next to it, which appears sparkling clean & healthy. The pH
7.0, but I haven't purchased a nitrate/ammonia kit.

Questions:

When & what should I start feeding these little guys?
Should I start putting a few freshly hatched brine shrimp in now, or wait until
more or all of them are swimming off the bottom?
Do they swim off the bottom much before they eat?
Put the sponge filter in now or later on?
Put an airstone in, or leave them without for now?

Thanks, any & all, for your help!

Ken

Wayland Chan

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Dec 31, 1994, 6:15:16 PM12/31/94
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> Questions:
>
> When & what should I start feeding these little guys?

When they start free-swimming in about 3-4 days. Feed them newly
hatched brine shrimp. Start these cultures a day or two before
you expect the fry to start swimming.

> Should I start putting a few freshly hatched brine shrimp in now, or wait until

No, they won't need this until they have absorbed their yolk sacs
and start swimming. If unsure, put a few in in a few days and watch
the fry for any eating activity.

> more or all of them are swimming off the bottom?
> Do they swim off the bottom much before they eat?

Yes, a little. But after eating they may rest on the ground.

> Put the sponge filter in now or later on?

Put it in now so a bacterial culture can grow in the sponge.

> Put an airstone in, or leave them without for now?

You can put one in if you wish, just make sure it doesn't make a
current too powerful for the fry ie. you need some circulation.
Remember, there should be a sponge filter already which will
provide circulation.


>
> Thanks, any & all, for your help!
>
> Ken

As to your water changes, I would recommend testing your main tank
water or using fresh water corrected for temp,pH,hardness, and
chlorine.


Good luck!

David Chan

David Hickey-Schiappa

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Jan 1, 1995, 9:26:03 AM1/1/95
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Ken Cunningham (k...@wimsey.com) wrote:
: My freshwater angelfish are laying eggs again!
[break]
: I've ... reached this stage of angelfish husbandry before, three or four
: times, and ... the fry die about day 6 or 7. Anyone with some experience in
: getting over the next few days that would be willing to help me ... here
: would be my appreciated. [break]

It has been my experience that many of the fry may be just a
*little* too small to take newly hatched brine shrimp (who knows,
maybe different sources of eggs produce slightly different sized
shrimps, and perhaps different strains of angels produce slightly
different sized fry).
Also, since the fry tend to hang out around the same spot in the tank
for quite some time before they start swimming all over the place, and the
shrimp tend to space themselves all over the tank, I don't think brine
shrimp get to the fry very efficiently in the early days.
As soon as you notice that at least some of the fry are no longer
waving their tails, but have assumed a more or less "normal" position for
a fish, I would start adding some micro-worms; they can be placed in the
same area that the fish are in, and they will find them easily on a bare
bottom tank. I found that the fry could be clearly seen taking the
worms. Btw, the sponge filter will also harbor rotifers, which fry
also like to eat! (free food). After most of the fry have been eating
the micros for 3 or 4 days, then I add the newly hatched artemia. I have
had excellent results with this method.
I recommend that you obtain some micro-worms and start your cultures
going a week or so before you expect the blessed event. When the fry are
starting to travel all over the tank, then you can add other foods for a
varied diet. Good luck!
altair4
=========================================================================
Save your intelligence quotients, gang - the Krell shall rise again!
=========================================================================

Peter Monaghan

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Jan 3, 1995, 2:35:09 AM1/3/95
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Ken, when the mass of fdry swims free, you need to feed freshly hatched brine shrimp 4 times per day
Just hatch the eggs in salt water, strain with a brine shrimp net and wash them with a few tablespoons of fresh
water. Then add them to the tank. Add enough to be eaten in about 5 minutes.
Get a sponge filter in when these fry are free swimming.

You might go to artificial hatching. Give the pair a slate slab to lay on. Once the eggs are laid, remove the slate and place it in
a 1 gallon jar with water from the original tank. Place an airstone
where it will bubble the eggs to keep water circulating.
Add methylene blue dye to the water to reduce fungus growth at twice the
recommended dosage for ich treatment. The eggs will hatch ad fall to
the bottom. When the fry swim free, feed brine shrimp that evening.
The next day dump all the contents (except for the slate and airstone)
into a 5 or 10 gallon tank with a sponge filter and feed brine shrimp
babies copiously until the fry take dry food (about 3 weeks).

Have fun, Pterophyllum scalare is a blast to breed. They will breed every 7 to 10 days
if you do water changes, keep the temp 78 °F, and feed frozen and live food.
You can raise about 300 fry (3-6 spawns) in 50 gallon tanks to nickel
size fish and get a good price for them. Ten pair is about $1000/month
profit.

--Pete

Ken Cunningham

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Jan 3, 1995, 5:02:52 PM1/3/95
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>discussion regarding angelfish babies...

Well, thanks for all the responses... so far, at day 8, about 90% are
still up and going.

I've been feeding them newly-hatched brine shrimp, as I haven't got a clue
where to find micro-worms or artemia, and they seem to eat it, I think...
they certainly get orangy bellies.

They don't *do* much,though! The baby angels spend most of their time just
lying on the glass on the bottom of the tank, usually on their sides. It
looks a bit spooky, and I expect to seem them all dead each morning when I
come downstairs, but they wiggle on.

They occasionally dart up to the top of the tank, then will spend a minute
or so barrelling around up there, only to fall back down to the bottom for
a sleep, I suppose. Now, they are intermittently resting & hopping all
over the bottom of the tank, usually within an inch of the bottom.

They *go crazy* when the brine shrimp go in... I thought at first the
brine shimp were tickling the heck out of them, but I suppose they're just
eating them...

Does all this sound fairly normal to you all?

Alisa Dean

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Jan 3, 1995, 5:17:09 PM1/3/95
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In article <kfc-311294...@pme09.bby.wis.net>, k...@wimsey.com (Ken Cunningham) says:
>
>At day 2, about 90% turned into wigglers, and I shook them off the slate onto
>the tank bottom. Some have started to swim around the bottom now, and I've seen
>one or two make a valiant effort to reach the surface. Most are still wiggling
>away on the glass bottom of the aquarium.
>
>Questions:
>
>When & what should I start feeding these little guys?
>Should I start putting a few freshly hatched brine shrimp in now, or wait until
>more or all of them are swimming off the bottom?
>Do they swim off the bottom much before they eat?
>Put the sponge filter in now or later on?
>Put an airstone in, or leave them without for now?
>
>Thanks, any & all, for your help!
>
>Ken

It's a great idea to use the water from the original breeding
aquarium. I've found that when I used tap water, I would have
a massive die off - maybe the babies are lot more sensitive than
the adults. I would suggest using the outflow water from your
filter, since this will be the "cleanest".

Regarding your questions:

Start feeding with newly hatched baby brine shrimp as soon as
the babies are free swimming. After hatching, the angel fry are
living off their yold sacs for the first three or four days. If they
die at day 6 - 7, they may be starving to death. At this point, I
would start feeding lightly, and add more as more of the fry
become free swimming. A good way to check if the babies
are eating is to look at their tummies - a rounded, pink tummy
means they are feeding well. If you have established infusoria,
this is an excellent first food.

Rinse the brine shrimp well, and use a turkey baster to gently
release the shrimp in the middle of the fry.

The fry will tend to stay together. At first, they will "scoot" across
the bottom of the tank, then they will start to swim in a cloud
close to the bottom. A few will venture to the surface - don't ask
me why. Maybe they are attracted by the flickering of the surface.

If the sponge filter is established, I would go ahead and put in now.
Just make sure it does _not_ rest on the bottom - it could lift and then
settle on some of the babies, killing them. The sponge filter will
provide additional food from the established bacteria, etc., for the
fry.

If you add a sponge filter, I wouldn't include an air stone, unless it
is suspended just under the surface. Otherwise, the babies will
constantly be swished around, exhausting them. All you need
an air stone for anyway is to break the surface of the water for
oxygenation.

Note for the future: I read somewhere where someone (vague
enough?) found that moving the babies before they were about
dime-sized cause a higher mortality rate. If it's necessary to
move the babies to larger quarters as they grow, I would recommend
using as much of the original water as possible.

Good luck

Alisa

Alisa Dean

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Jan 9, 1995, 6:41:21 PM1/9/95
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Yup! Sounds like you're doing great!

It is normal to have some mortality with fry - remember, if all of
them survived in the wild, we would be hip deep in angels...

Be sure to keep up with the water changes, and syphon off any
dead brine shrimp or fry.

Angel fry take almost a week or so before they are "free-swimming."
The couple times I left them with the parents, I found that the parents
would dig a pit and move the babies from pit to pit. I think it's to
protect them from predators, and to keep the area "clean" from
wastes. It took a couple weeks before the babies because free
swimming. Until then, they just laid in a clump and wiggled.

As long as the babies are eating (indicated by the orangy bellies),
then you are well on the way to a good batch.

Good luck

Alisa

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Alfred Guercio

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Sep 21, 2020, 10:00:19 AM9/21/20
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Alfred Guercio

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Sep 21, 2020, 10:01:24 AM9/21/20
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Monday, January 9, 1995 at 6:41:21 PM UTC-5, Alisa Dean wrote:
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