Beginner's mistake (long post)
Stuart Teo
should have surfed the web and read newsgroup postings before I started.
Like some beginners, I bought myself a minute plastic tank which could hold
about 1 gallon of water. I had 10 fishes inside it, 5 of each species. I
later found out that I had 5 zebra danios and 5 tetra black widow.
Still without reading & surfing, I changed to an 8 gallon tank. I added
sand (gravel?), a corner filter which operates on an airpump, an airpump
with an airstone attached. All because it was fun to do things for my tank.
What's gravel? Is the coarse sand I added also known as gravel?
The corner filter is a really simple mechanism which has activated charcoal
at the bottom and fine wool-like mesh on top.
I added another 5 tetra black neons & 5 tetra serpae & 1 peppered pleco.
Then I started discovering newsgroups & websites about tropical fishes as
pets. I started learning about ammonia/ammonium, nitrites and nitrates.
Since I have basic engineering training, these stuff makes sense to me.
Fine.
Following that, I took out my goldfish and put it in its own tank since they
don't fit with each other.
I added a thermometer to my 8 gallon tank. Reads 25 degrees celcius plus
minus 1, everybody's happy. I went to the LFS yesterday and the owner tells
me he doesn't have ammonia/ammonium/nitrite/nitrate test kits coz he never
uses them and he has no problems. He says he only test for pH. Is it
true?!
After checking the characteristics of all my fishes, I think my tank needs
to be pH 6.5 so everybody's happy. Question. Are those pH-up and pH-down
medication harmful to my fishes? Is there a natural way to achieve the pH
value I want? Wonder if litmus paper is cheaper than pH test kits. Will
check it out later.
Question. Is sea/ocean water hard or soft? Have forgotten the definition.
Given it back to my teachers. I know that either hard or soft water
produces a lot of bubbles.
The water in my area has pH 7.0 and is slightly chlorinated. I added this
plant which has arrow-head-like leaves. Is this a mistake?
I have 3 bottles of stuff. 1 bottle is anti-chlorine with no chemical
composition listed - this makes me nervous. What is anti-chlorine normally
made of?
I have another bottle that ways "general disinfectant". In English, it says
it's good for about almost every common problems a fish can have. In
French, it states the chemical composition - which is 3C23H25N2Cl.2H20
Shit. I see a lot of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, chlorine and oxygen but
what the hell is this stuff? Is it safe to add to my tank?!
The 3rd bottle is the most expensive one says it removes chlorine,
chloramines & heavy metals. Buffers pH and reduces stress. What does pH
buffering mean? (I'm not a chemical engineer, I'm a computer engineer)
Contains aloe vera?! Forms protective slime. Creates superior water
quality. Protects mucous & gills. Are such stuff any good to the fish?
Sounds good. But?
I noticed that some of my fishes have torn fins. The problem is I can't
differentiate the difference between torn and rotting. Anyway, is it due to
stress? The tank has been running for 1 month. I do 20% water changes
every 3rd day. Previously, the fishes were losing color. Now it's OK. I
do water changes on every 3rd days coz that's the day they always start to
lose color. I assume the water is stressing them and hence the color loss.
When I do the water change, the color comes back and the appetite returns.
Am I doing the right thing? Will the tank cycle this way?
In my 8 gallon tank, I added about half a teaspoon of salt. Is this good?
I hear it keeps ich/ick away. But I'm worried for my peppered pleco aka
suckermouth catfish(?). I can't get information off the web about my pleco.
Like what pH it likes, what temperature it likes, etc...
I know I started out wrongly, but I'm trying to correct things now. Please
let me know if I'm doing anything wrong!
Hui King Ho
He says he only test for pH. Is it true?!
Not really, when u first "cycle" the tank, the levels of ammonia, nitrate
and nitrie will vary (various spikes). Some ppl, know when these occur,
therefore they do not buy any test kits, but as a begnnier it would be
advisable to have these things.
>
> After checking the characteristics of all my fishes, I think my tank needs
> to be pH 6.5 so everybody's happy. Question. Are those pH-up and pH-down
medication harmful to my fishes?
Only in excessive amounts.
Is there a natural way to achieve the pH value I want?
A cheap way to increase pH is to add baking soda, Sodium Bicarbonate. Not
sure for lowering, i think its Sodium bisphosphate.
> Question. Is sea/ocean water hard or soft? Have forgotten the
definition.
> Given it back to my teachers. I know that either hard or soft water
> produces a lot of bubbles.
To tes if water is hard use a soap with the water. If it bubbles easily the
water is soft. If it is hard to lather then the water is hard (too many
dissolved salts)
> The water in my area has pH 7.0 and is slightly chlorinated. I added this
> plant which has arrow-head-like leaves. Is this a mistake?
Not sure, haven't delt with this typer of plant
> I have 3 bottles of stuff. 1 bottle is anti-chlorine with no chemical
> composition listed - this makes me nervous. What is anti-chlorine
normally
> made of?
Not exactly sure.
> I have another bottle that ways "general disinfectant". In English, it
says
> it's good for about almost every common problems a fish can have. In
> French, it states the chemical composition - which is 3C23H25N2Cl.2H20
> Shit. I see a lot of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, chlorine and oxygen but
> what the hell is this stuff? Is it safe to add to my tank?!
Usually disinfectant contain a bleach or ammna compound of some sort, which
is toxic to your aquariums. Any disinfectant (Eg. household cleaners) are
deadly to fish.
>
> The 3rd bottle is the most expensive one says it removes chlorine,
> chloramines & heavy metals. Buffers pH and reduces stress. What does pH
> buffering mean? (I'm not a chemical engineer, I'm a computer engineer)
Buffering means, it prevent changes in pH in your tank (up to a certain
point though).
> Contains aloe vera?! Forms protective slime. Creates superior water
> quality. Protects mucous & gills. Are such stuff any good to the fish?
> Sounds good. But?
Not sure.
>
> I noticed that some of my fishes have torn fins. The problem is I can't
> differentiate the difference between torn and rotting. Anyway, is it due
to
> stress? Probably another fish is nipping at the fins, try to observe who
the offending culprit is in the daytime and in the night.
The tank has been running for 1 month. I do 20% water changes
> every 3rd day. Previously, the fishes were losing color. Now it's OK. I
> do water changes on every 3rd days coz that's the day they always start to
> lose color. I assume the water is stressing them and hence the color
loss.
> When I do the water change, the color comes back and the appetite returns.
> Am I doing the right thing? Will the tank cycle this way?
Not sure, maybe you're feeding too much, which is deteriating water quality.
>
> In my 8 gallon tank, I added about half a teaspoon of salt. Is this good?
This has been a much debated topic, where no real conclusion is availalble.
I guess if its not broken why fix it.
> I hear it keeps ich/ick away.
Yes, by changing osmotic conditions and also raising the temp.
But I'm worried for my peppered pleco aka
> suckermouth catfish(?). I can't get information off the web about my
pleco.
> Like what pH it likes, what temperature it likes, etc...
> I know I started out wrongly, but I'm trying to correct things now.
Please
> let me know if I'm doing anything wrong!
Its definately a learning process, even for some of us who have been doing
it for years, continue to learn andmake mistakes. But the journey is fun.
--
[biology is the only science where multiplication means the same as
division]
-hui
Dave
the necessary bacteria to reduce the ammonia & nitrite you should
continue with regular water changes. I would not worry about the pH
unless you test it and it is really high (>8.0) or really low (<6.0).
Otherwise you would be better off to ensure that the pH is consistent
rather than any specific level. Given that you didn't cycle the tank
I would buy an ammonia & nitrite test kit. With these kits you will
be able to see your tank cycle. Initially the ammonia will rise, then
as it falls the nitrite will rise. When it falls that means that your
filter become cycled. You could back off on the water changes at that
point but for a small tank like you have it is not that big a task and
it is very beneficial. Make sure that when you clean your filter that
you rinse off the carbon & floss in tank water. You don't want to
kill the bacteria that are there. Carbon is not really a great filter
medium as it gets used up quickly and has to be replaced but that's
another topic.
If you cannot age the water that you use for water changes overnight
then you should add the chlorine remover prior to adding the new
water. This product is made up of Sodium Thiosulfate. Other than
that I would not add anything to your water. Salt should be
considered a medicine and should not be added other than for a
specific purpose.
Dave
Aspatia
leave some water in a tub overnight with a filter with some peat in it.
however, the previous poster is right, you shouldn't worry about pH until
the nitrogen cycling has been completed.
jeanette
Stuart Teo
i _think_ the cycling process has been completed. i'm not sure but i'll
observe for another few days. i have accelerated the process by adding
bateria.
after the cycling process is completed, how do you lower the pH and maintain
it? are those "pH down" treatments the correct way? or should i stick a
piece of driftwood in my tank?
Aspatia <asp...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:UU1O4.21791$Pn.1...@news1.bnapk1.occa.home.com...
Stuart Teo
natural way... I'd rather not use chemicals.
I hear driftwood can reduce the pH of my water (pH 7 out of the tap)
slightly. Are there any cons to using driftwood? Is there any other
natural way other than adding driftwood?
I noticed my LFS having a decaying leave in some of his tanks. Is that a
way to emulate one aspect of black water?
Stuart Teo
> point but for a small tank like you have it is not that big a task and
I think my tank is cycled. I used this product called Cycle by Hagen once,
and only once. The strange thing is my pH now stays at a stable 7.5. I do
20% water changes and have been reducing the frequency of water changes.
Water coming out of my tap is pH 7 - made of rain water - and low on
chlorine.
> it is very beneficial. Make sure that when you clean your filter that
> you rinse off the carbon & floss in tank water. You don't want to
> kill the bacteria that are there. Carbon is not really a great filter
Does activated carbon kill bacteria like the nitrobactor? Or nitrosomonas?
> then you should add the chlorine remover prior to adding the new
> water. This product is made up of Sodium Thiosulfate. Other than
I use a bottle of stuff which says "Anti-chlorine Special". No chemical
formula stated on the labels. That's one thing I hate about fish medicine.
Sometimes I wonder if this stuff will kill my fish since my tap water is
already low on chlorine. BTW, does flouride do anything to the fishes?!
Dave
>and only once. The strange thing is my pH now stays at a stable 7.5. I do
>20% water changes and have been reducing the frequency of water changes.
>Water coming out of my tap is pH 7 - made of rain water - and low on
>chlorine.
You shouldn't have to guess if your tank is cycled. Test the Ammonia,
Nitrite & Nitrate. If it is cycled then you should have 0 Amm & Ni
and with good water changes <20 ppm Na. That is the reason to
continue with water changes, it is the way to remove the end product
of the Nitrogen cycle, the Nitrate. If your water is pH 7 and low on
chlorine then I would not add a thing to it. Maybe just aerate it
overnight with a heater in it and then do the water change the
following day. A pH of 7 is ideal for most fish. It's far more
important to have a consistent pH than a low one.
>Does activated carbon kill bacteria like the nitrobactor? Or nitrosomonas?
>
Carbon is best used to remove medications or color from the water. It
does not recharge well (although the manufactures would have you
believe that you can recharge it) so in the end it becomes a
biological filter. Much more expensive than a sponge that can be
rinsed frequently.
Dave
Dave
>ammonia tester. I don't want just that. I want a nitrogen tester too. And
>the price of the ammonia tester was 18 bux. Is that price normal? The pH
>testers only costed me 5 bux.
>
Check www.petsolutions.com for comparable pricing in North America.
>
>But slight acidic water is ideal for my tetras. Although they don't mind pH
>7.
>
What is ideal for your tetras is water with a consistent. The minute
you start changing the pH you are stuck doing it for all water.
>Does that mean that while the charcoal is there, adding medication is equal
>to adding nothing?
Carbon should not be used if you are adding meds. In my opinion
carbon should only be used to get rid of meds.
>I also heard that the charcoal will neutralize black
>water. Is that true?
Don't know what black water is. Carbon is good at clarifying water.
Dave
Oleg
Wisper biobag instead of carbon. As opposed to majority of the newsgrooup
partisipants I like my Wisper though it has two modifications: extra floss
to trap particulates and algae better, and foam Triad retrofit kit to let
bacteria proliferate..
"Dave" <dclu...@home.com> wrote in message news:3909d35d.518655360@news...
ri...@ssec.wisc.edu
will reach at least 1-2" and the pleco 4-5". You are definately over
populated! Old rule of thumb is 1" of fish per gallon of water.
Your fish are stressed out by the high levels of ammonia over the 3 day
period. Cycling will help, and your water changes are excellent in
removing some of these unwanted ammonia. Still in my opinion you need
to remove some of the fish (5-10 of the tetras).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Stuart Teo
> Nitrite & Nitrate. If it is cycled then you should have 0 Amm & Ni
> and with good water changes <20 ppm Na. That is the reason to
I've visited about 8 x LFS. 3 of which are large ones. Only one sells
ammonia tester. I don't want just that. I want a nitrogen tester too. And
the price of the ammonia tester was 18 bux. Is that price normal? The pH
testers only costed me 5 bux.
> following day. A pH of 7 is ideal for most fish. It's far more
> important to have a consistent pH than a low one.
But slight acidic water is ideal for my tetras. Although they don't mind pH
7.
> Carbon is best used to remove medications or color from the water. It
> does not recharge well (although the manufactures would have you
> believe that you can recharge it) so in the end it becomes a
Does that mean that while the charcoal is there, adding medication is equal
to adding nothing? I also heard that the charcoal will neutralize black
water. Is that true?
> biological filter. Much more expensive than a sponge that can be
> rinsed frequently.
I see. So, I can use a piece of sponge for the bacteria to colonize.
Didn't realize that. But makes sense.
btw: I'm in Singapore, near the equator.
orthodo...@nospamnetscape.com
general assembly:
ok, i have a 20 L thats a tetra tank (course my other fish have
adapted). my pH 6.6-6.4 btw stabile pH is important. i also have
plant's hence the 1" rule is kinda stretched. i have 8 glow lights 5
lemon tetras i have 4 (two mated pairs) bleeding hearts and 3 cory's
and one pleco (clown) i'm going to add one bleeding heart and one
lemon plus maybe two cory's. i use a product called Kent's Blackwater
Expert. it's kinda like a plant fertilizer plus bog water. and it DOES
change the color of the water. if i feed fresh food add a dose of kent
blackwater my tetras start doing the spawning dance. its fun to watch
my bleeding hearts get very deep red and start belly slaping. anyway
the blackwater is supposed to simulate amazon river water for tetras
and discus type fish. as to carbon, it will remove the additives you
put in the water. i used a carbon bag to remove some meds i was useing
and i totally removed the blackwater stuff from the tank. (btw i try
and the blackwater in it regularly since it helps maintain a
consistance water condition). i now NEVER use carbon except to remove
color or meds. i use floss ( i have to over the back filters) and i
change alt. between the two.
Stuart Teo
13 tetras, 3 types. 5 zebras. 1 pleco. And yes, I realize it's
overcrowded. But there's nothing I can do about it. I can't get a bigger
tank, neither can I give them away. Coz I don't know anyone else
(personally) who has such interest!
David D
store does it for free.
Stuart Teo
news:3908...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> Is there a natural way to achieve the pH value I want?
> A cheap way to increase pH is to add baking soda, Sodium Bicarbonate. Not
> sure for lowering, i think its Sodium bisphosphate.
Today, I found a LFS (far from my home) with very complete Sera products.
Now, I was talking to this guy. Telling him that my pH starts at 7.0 and
ends up stable at 7.5 after added to the tank. This guy says I need to
increase my KH by adding carbonates?!
The above (quoted) text says that the bicarbonate will increase pH. So...
I also asked the LFS guy about buying trace element additives. He told me
that my activated carbon will remove those trace elements. How does
activated carbon work, and what do they absorb?
Dave
<hl...@cyberway.com.sg> wrote:
>Hui King Ho <hui_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3908...@news.alphalink.com.au...
>
>> Is there a natural way to achieve the pH value I want?
>> A cheap way to increase pH is to add baking soda, Sodium Bicarbonate. Not
>> sure for lowering, i think its Sodium bisphosphate.
>
>Today, I found a LFS (far from my home) with very complete Sera products.
>
>Now, I was talking to this guy. Telling him that my pH starts at 7.0 and
>ends up stable at 7.5 after added to the tank. This guy says I need to
>increase my KH by adding carbonates?!
>
You should find a new guy to talk to. Increasing your KH will only
increase the hardness of the water and if anything will increase the
pH or at least the buffering capacity of the water and make it even
more difficult to reduce the pH. Sodium Bicarb will very quickly
increase the pH of your water, and it won't take much. I can take
about 1/16th of a teaspoon and it will increase the pH of a 15 gallon
holding tank from 6 to 6.5 almost immediately. Muriatic acid will
very quickly reduce the pH. It does it by first reducing your
hardness to zero and then reducing the pH. For that reason it will
take more acid to have much effect on the pH but once it starts to
drop it can quickly plummet to less than 3.0. For that reason both of
these additives should only be added to a holding tank and never to
your aquarium. Once the pH in your holding tank is where you want it
and has settled for 24 hours then you can use it. If for instance you
add muriatic acid to your holding tank and it starts at a pH of 7.5
and then drops to 6.0 it will slowly rise during the next 24 hours and
could easily settle in at 7.2. Over time you will learn how much to
add given the starting pH in order to end up where you want. My pH
starts at about 7.8 and I add about 24 drops (works out to less than
2ml) of muriatic acid. The pH drops to about 5.0 and by the next day
it settles at about 6.6. If I add too much it will stay down around
4.5 to 5.0. Then I add some sodium bicarb (usually I notice that
evening and add it then) and it will rise to the desired level. The
key is to work with it on your own. My measurements won't work for
you since your initial hardness will be different than mine. I am
using a mix of RO water and tap water so my hardness is low to begin
with. If you use hard water it will take much more acid to get the
desired drop in pH.
>The above (quoted) text says that the bicarbonate will increase pH. So...
>
>I also asked the LFS guy about buying trace element additives. He told me
>that my activated carbon will remove those trace elements. How does
>activated carbon work, and what do they absorb?
>
Trace element additives are not necessary unless you are using
straight RO water or distilled water. I prefer to add tap water (80%
RO/20% Tap) to get the trace elements rather than an additive as the
additive greatly increases the conductivity and thereby the hardness
of the water. Also, adding tap water is obviously cheaper.
Carbon should only be used to remove meds IMHO. Otherwise it has no
purpose in your filter.
Dave
Stuart Teo
> holding tank from 6 to 6.5 almost immediately. Muriatic acid will
I'm sorry, but I don't know what muriatic acid is. I've read things about
vinegar but it sounds so strange to be adding vinegar to a tank. Anyway,
I've just added a piece of driftwood into my tank. So far, it's doing
_nothing_ to the pH. Strange.
> Carbon should only be used to remove meds IMHO. Otherwise it has no
> purpose in your filter.
But does it remove trace elements like what my LFS guy said? He also said
that when the activated carbon reaches limit, it releases everything back to
the water.
Rikkochet
>hardness to zero and then reducing the pH. For that reason it will
>take more acid to have much effect on the pH but once it starts to
^^^ Is there a common name/product with muriatic acid? Sodium Bicarb
is baking soda, so I imagine there's just as cheap a way to drop the
pH by going to the grocery store.
orthodo...@nospamnetscape.com
<hl...@cyberway.com.sg> wrote to the general assembly:
a fairly quick way to lower ph is to use peat, put it into a stocking
and run it under tap water for a few seconds (to loosen the dirt out
of the stocking) then put it into your filter where the water will run
over it. of course the peat adds tanic (sp???) acid so your water will
turn slightly brownish yellowish, which i think makes the tank look
natural but thats me.
>Dave <dclu...@home.com> wrote in message news:3914dff9.187548320@news...
>
>> holding tank from 6 to 6.5 almost immediately. Muriatic acid will
>
Frank & Kay Bayne
right to the tank.If you have live plants in the tank,bubble Co2 (carbon
dioxide) Co2 dissolves in the water and forms carbonic acid which lowers the
pH....Frank
"Rikkochet" <rikk...@home.REMOVEcom> wrote in message
news:rfUUOfokodi9VG...@4ax.com...
> >holding tank from 6 to 6.5 almost immediately. Muriatic acid will
Hui King Ho
post??
Stuart Teo <hl...@cyberway.com.sg> wrote in message
news:3914d...@news.cyberway.com.sg...
> Hui King Ho <hui_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3908...@news.alphalink.com.au...
>
> > Is there a natural way to achieve the pH value I want?
> > A cheap way to increase pH is to add baking soda, Sodium Bicarbonate.
Not
> > sure for lowering, i think its Sodium bisphosphate.
>
> Today, I found a LFS (far from my home) with very complete Sera products.
>
> Now, I was talking to this guy. Telling him that my pH starts at 7.0 and
> ends up stable at 7.5 after added to the tank. This guy says I need to
> increase my KH by adding carbonates?!
>
Frank & Kay Bayne
be a little tricky to use within a closed area. Peat moss would lower the pH
but it takes a lot of it,much more than just a little in the
filter.Driftwood - same thing,you would need to fill the tank with it to
lower the pH.I'd use the vinegar to get the pH to whatever level you want
and the peat moss/driftwood would help keep it stable.Think of carbon as a
sponge,it works by absorption and can only hold so much.It will remove meds.
and trace elements,dies,gasses,etc.from the water. If left in the filter,for
more than a few hours,it's really not left the tank yet..... Franknews:3914f...@news.cyberway.com.sg...
>
Frank & Kay Bayne
person using muriatic acid and household vinegar will do the same thing and
is safe.I would suspect a lot of people wouldn't know what muriatic acid
is,let alone being hurt by it......Frank
"Dave" <dclu...@home.com> wrote in message news:39162810.271551759@news...
> >Muriatic acid is used to clean brick and concrete,kind of strong and
could
> >be a little tricky to use within a closed area.
>
> french fries, so what? Muriatic (HCl) has the immediate effect of
> lowering pH. The fact that it is also used to clean brick is
> irrelevant. Bicarbonate of Soda is great for increasing pH but I am
> not really concerned with how it is used in the kitchen. You are
> correct though that great care should be used when handling HCl. I
> use about 24 drops for 18 gallons, it takes 5 seconds and the bottle
> is closed and the eyedropper rinsed.
>
> Dave
Dave
>^^^ Is there a common name/product with muriatic acid? Sodium Bicarb
>is baking soda, so I imagine there's just as cheap a way to drop the
>pH by going to the grocery store.
Muriatic acid is just Hydrochloric acid. I think you should be able
to get it at a Home Depot or something similar. Just be careful with
it.
Dave
Dave
>vinegar but it sounds so strange to be adding vinegar to a tank. Anyway,
>I've just added a piece of driftwood into my tank. So far, it's doing
>_nothing_ to the pH. Strange.
>
>But does it remove trace elements like what my LFS guy said?
I don't know, I doubt it, but it's immaterial to me since I disagree
with using it for an extended and non-essntial period of time.
>He also said
>that when the activated carbon reaches limit, it releases everything back to
>the water.
That's what I've heard. There is no way for a hobbyist to recharge it
so it can leach out all of the crap that it removed from your water
once it reaches saturation. Again, why would you want to use it in
the first place?
>
>
Dave
Stuart Teo
in school... geeze... adding that to my fish tank? No way.
Dave <dclu...@home.com> wrote in message news:3916269d.271180818@news...
Louis & Sarah
would know where they could find it, if needed.
Dave <dclu...@home.com> wrote in message news:39162810.271551759@news...
Daniel Carle
reduce the pH while adding as little as possible of other "stuff". In
that case a strong acid will do a better job than a weak acid. Acetic
will result in acetate being added to the water and that in quite large
quantity. You may have to use 100 times more acetic acid than muriatic
acid to reach the same pH level with a lot more "by-products".
Daniel
Frank & Kay Bayne wrote:
>
> Just pointing out that great care should be taken for both the fish and the
> person using muriatic acid and household vinegar will do the same thing and
> is safe.I would suspect a lot of people wouldn't know what muriatic acid
> is,let alone being hurt by it......Frank
Dave
>in school... geeze... adding that to my fish tank? No way.
>
you so comfortable adding that to your tank when you don't really have
a good idea about what it does to your water. I am always surprised
by hobbyists that add carbon to their filter simply because the filter
either came with it or has a compartment dedicated to it. If you look
into it you will see that carbon has a very specific purpose in the
aquarium world and it is not intended to be used as an everyday filter
medium.
So I guess I understand your reluctance to add HCl to your water. I
feel the same way about carbon. I think that what your statement
really says is that you don't want to add anything to your water
unless you understand fully the effects that it will have on your
water and fish. With that in mind why do people regularly add the
following to their water:
Carbon
Blackwater extract
Vinegar
Salt
Cycle
Aquari-Sol
Aqua-Safe
pH Up
pH Down
Proper pH
Water Softener Pillow
Stress Coat
Most of these are just money makers for the producer and provide no
real benefit to the fish. Some should be considered meds (salt). The
point I am trying to make is why would you add anything to your tank
if you don't understand what it does or if it is required. I take RO
water, mix it with tap water (80%/20%) and add about 24 drops of HCl.
The next day if my pH is less than 6.4 I add a tiny bit of Bicarb of
Soda to get it to about 6.5 and do a 30% water change in my 50 gallon
tank. That is all that is added to the water and as far as I am
concerned all that needs to be added to the water. Without the RO or
the HCl I would have water with a pH of 8.3 and hardness of300ppm.
With the above my tank has a pH of 6.4, KH of 10ppm, GH of 20ppm and
conductivity of about 100.
Dave
Rikkochet
>>be a little tricky to use within a closed area.
>
>I don't see the relevance of this statement. Vinegar is used for
>french fries, so what? Muriatic (HCl) has the immediate effect of
>lowering pH. The fact that it is also used to clean brick is
>irrelevant. Bicarbonate of Soda is great for increasing pH but I am
>not really concerned with how it is used in the kitchen. You are
>correct though that great care should be used when handling HCl. I
>use about 24 drops for 18 gallons, it takes 5 seconds and the bottle
>is closed and the eyedropper rinsed.
Muriatic will lower the pH, but will it release anything the water as
it disassociates? Well, anything that isn't inert? Or are fish not at
all bothered by it (Besides the stress of a quickly-dropping pH)?
Dave
>Muriatic will lower the pH, but will it release anything the water as
>it disassociates? Well, anything that isn't inert? Or are fish not at
>all bothered by it (Besides the stress of a quickly-dropping pH)?
experience a quickly dropping pH. This has to be done slowly. And
you cannot add HCl to the tank. If you do you might as well flush the
fish. You have to add it to your change water. And you can't have
the pH in your change water alter the pH in your tank by more than 0.1
or 0.2 in a day. So you have to slowly alter your pH.
Dave
Dave
>BTW, what's the long form of "RO"?
>
Sorry, RO=Reverse Osmosis
Dave
draseymour
weak organic acid but though Im a scientist ive never heard of
it. Is it like humic acid or the like. anyway to follow on
with the discussion in a healthy aquatic system there are not
just fish but bacteria producing CO2 etc and this causes a
lowering of the pH as has already been explained. Normally a
light alkali can be added to the water and sodium bicarbonate is
good as it also acts as a buffer through the carbonate ions.
The maintenance of reasonably neutral pH is also required by
the bacteria. Fluctuations in pH can affect the populations of
bugs in the filters etc and create problems. Beware of high
pH's say above 8 as ammonia becomes unionised exponentially as
Ph rises and this form is highly toxic and acts as a nerve gas
on the fish. In marine water hydrogen sulphide is more of a
problem.. To maintain control over the environment it is
important not to allow a build up of too much sediment detritus
as this can cause instability. Regards Andrew
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Stuart Teo
producing some Cl compounds?
If I add sulphuric acid to a tank, wouldn't it react with some other stuff
in the tank producing some sulphate/sulphite compounds?
If I add nitric acid to a tank, wouldn't it react with some other stuff in
the tank producing some nitrite/nitrate compounds?
This whole acid adding thing sounds so hazardous to me...
Stuart Teo
> you so comfortable adding that to your tank when you don't really have
> a good idea about what it does to your water. I am always surprised
> by hobbyists that add carbon to their filter simply because the filter
> either came with it or has a compartment dedicated to it. If you look
> into it you will see that carbon has a very specific purpose in the
> aquarium world and it is not intended to be used as an everyday filter
> medium.
True. I added carbon because it came along [1] in the package and [2] the
mech. filter had a compartment dedicated to it and [3] the instructions says
to put it there. I made the assumption that the manufacturers must be
informed about what they are designing. Of course, that's before I learnt
the purpose of the carbon.
> Most of these are just money makers for the producer and provide no
> real benefit to the fish. Some should be considered meds (salt). The
I couldn't agree more. But then again, we live in a capitalist society. ;)
And we often get fooled into buying things we don't need.
BTW, what's the long form of "RO"?
Thanks,
Stuart
Alan Ruben
industrial purposes.
Alan
--
The Clear Water Journal
Everything Fishy...and then some
http://www.clearwaterjournal.com
draseymour <andrew.dir...@virgin.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:0c8cbe1a...@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com...
> Can anyone explain properly what muriatic acid is I assume its a
> weak organic acid but though Im a scientist ive never heard of
> it. Is it like humic acid or the like. ...
Bob Raible
form, and some small percentage may precipitate out after combining
with cations in the tank. If these cations are heavy metals, that
would be a good thing. Strong acids are better in that one needs to
add less to achieve the same result and thereby adds less of the
associated anion (CL-). The main problem with using HCL is that it is
hazardous to handle in concentrated form. I dilute 20:1 or so before
using on my tanks.