snails-snails-snails
kw...@cornell.edu
Dear newsgroup,
My four year old and I are not sure what to do about a booming snail
population in our fresh water tank. The tank is new (3 months old) and
is only a 10 gallon with about 10 fish in it. I thought I remembered as
a kid being told that some fish ate the snail eggs...but upon asking pet
store owners...I get a negative response or a sales pitch for some
chemical. We want some snails...but not hundreds....any ideas?
You've probably dealt with this problem on the newsgroup before, so I'm
sorry if I'm crossing commonly traversed ground. But is there a natural
way to at least limit the population. Please reply to my e-mail:
cm...@cornell.edu
thanks,
Chris
patrick timlin
kw...@cornell.edu wrote:
: My four year old and I are not sure what to do about a booming snail
: population in our fresh water tank.
[The following is a canned response to snail questions...]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Controlling Snail Populations in the Home Aquaria
There are generally four ways to deal with an unexpected (or maybe
intentionally introduced) snail population in your tank.
Method 1) Snail eating fish. This is generally the solution that requires
the least amount of intervention by you plus you might get some new and
interesting fish in the deal. How much your snail populations declines
depends on the type of fish you decide to use (some are better at it than
others) and how much you feed those fish (plenty of prepared foods may
make them lazy at eating snails).
Here is a partial list of some fish that are rumored (I don't have first
hand knowledge with any of these except the first one listed) to eat
snails. Others surely exist and if anyone would like to add to this list,
please email me with the details.
Clown Loaches (Botia macracantha) notes: community fish, schooling
Skunk Loach (Botia horae) (some say better than the Clown L.)
Puffers (Tetraodon species) notes: aggressive, keep alone
Craggy-Headed Banjo (Agmus lyriformis)
Bunocephalus amaurus (bi-coloured)
Pseudotropheus & Melanochromis (Malawi Cichlids)
Labidochromis caeruleus (Malawi Cichlid) Yellow Labs, Electric
Yellow
Chocolate Cichlid (Cichlasoma coryphaenoides / C. hellabruni)
Thai variety of the bumblebee catfish (Leiocassis siamensis)
Giant Gourami (Osphronemus goramy) notes: VERY large
Betta/Fighting Fish (Betta splendens) notes: some do, some don't
These are listed in a book I have (Drs. Andrew & Baensch) as being snail
eaters, but one person who has bred both claims they do not eat snails.
Opaline/Blue/Three Spot Gouramis (Trichogaster trichopterus)
Convict cichlids (Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum)
Banjo Catfish (Bunocephalus knerii) (he didn't breed these but kept
them)
In addition, most other Botia species eat snails as well, but I didn't
list any specific ones other than Clown & Skunk Loaches. Anyone who can
confirm specific snail eatering Botia, please email me.
Method 2) manually removing snails. This includes just reaching into the
tank and picking them out as you see them. You could also crush them
against the glass. Most fish readily eat them once you have crushed the
shells for them. Other methods include putting a piece of food on an over
turned dish and leaving in the tank for a few hours after lights out.
Snails will converge on the plate. Lift out plate and dispose of snails.
Of course many bottom feeders (such as Cory Cats) usually eat the food
first. People have reported good results with other foods like a leaf of
lettuce.
Note, this method usually never rids you of the problem. Rather, it merely
keeps the population in check. Often after an initial week of snail
warfare (nightly lettuce leaves or hours each day picking them out) it
will only require the occasional intervention to keep the numbers from
getting out of control again. Of course this method also requires lots of
work from you and continues to do so. If you are lazy, you might opt for
Method 1) above.
Method 3) snail killing chemicals. These are sold in most pet shops. This
method is one of the most sever and I can not really suggest it. For one
thing, anything designed to kill snails probably isn't all that great for
your fish and plants. Adding chemicals to your tank is always a risky
thing unless you know exactly what you are adding and exactly what the
effects will be.
Also, even if the chemicals turn out to be harmless to your fish, the
often overlooked result of this method is the massive die off of snails
and the resulting decaying of all those little snail bodies. This can
often be more deadly to your fish than many of the chemicals used to kill
the snails. If you do choose to go this route, follow up the treatment
with plenty of small partial water changes. At least 10% every other day
for a week if not more and make sure to check the filter often during this
time.
Method 4) complete tear down of the tank. Most people will try anything
before turning to this, but sometimes the only SURE way to rid yourself of
snails is to start over. This means cleaning EVERYTHING in the tank,
gravel, filters, the tank itself, plants, the hood (yes eggs can still be
there), etc. After this it is required to recycle your tank, so unless you
have a place to hold your fish population in the meantime, this method
probably isn't for you.
One last thing you might want to think about is... Are snails really that
bad? I personally don't think so. Some types might be more destructive
than others, but many add yet another element to a tank that helps give it
a more natural feel to it. Many snails even perform useful functions such
as eating missed food, burrowing through the substrate thus preventing
compacting and dead spots, and even help dispose of dead fish (you aren't
likely to notice that dead neon in the back of your heavily planted 75
gallon tank are you?). My suggestion is to employ method one and use fish
to help you keep a useful population of snails in your tank while at the
same time keeping their numbers from getting out of hand.
Any comments, suggesting, corrections, or additions to this file, please
email to pti...@geocities.com
A copy of this article can be found at my web page (see sig line below).
Patrick Timlin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4742/
pti...@geocities.com
Edward S Hughes
Two easy methods to control snails: one is to simply manually
harvest the snails, use your net to remove them from the tank. This method
will take several days maybe a week but eventually you will slow them
down. The second remedy is "had a snail"> I have used this before as well
and may take a couple of doses but works faster. Remember to remove dead
snails from your tank as their decaying flesh is toxic to fish!!
liv2padl
my guess is you don't have the dreaded malaysian conical snail. I've been
cursed with these things in the past and they multiply at an incredible
rate. they're next to impossible to get rid of short of taking down the
tank and filling it with a bleach solution or similar sterilant. Even
clowns can't keep up with them. i've had some folks suggest that they
help keep the tank clean and why would anyone want to get rid of them. my
own opinion is that they create an unwanted bio-load and while they do eat
some detritus they create more waste than they clean up ... I can vacuum
up the waste but can't do anything about the extra demand all the snails
put on the filtration dynamics. bottom line ---I hate the bloody things
!!! if you want malaysian snails, i still have some in a tank in the
garage and you're welcome to all of them.
In article <3475fe9b...@news.nh.ultranet.com>,
dran...@nh.ultranet.cannan.com wrote:
> liv2...@interpath.com (liv2padl) wrote:
>
> >clown loaches will deplete your snail population in a relatively short time.
>
> But think hard before you buy some. They eventually get quite large
> and can be sensitive to water conditions (Ich is fairly common). Read
> up on them first.
>
> I still can't believe it when people post here asking how to get rid
> of hundreds of snails. After careful cultivation, I have about a
> dozen tiny snails. My Cherry Barbs and goldfish reproduce faster!
> Ugh, if I lived near any of you, I'd come over and clean your
> population out for you and take them home!
>
> Kristen
> Remove "cannan" from my address to reply via email
> Revenge on spammers:rhu...@fcc.gov; jqu...@fcc.gov;
> sn...@fcc.gov; rch...@fcc.gov; cust...@email.usps.gov
dran...@nh.ultranet.cannan.com
Ann2Scott
Snails, can be a real bif problem, esspecially in a 10 gallon tank,
they can get out of wack real quick. I take it from having 10 fish in
your tank, the fish are small tetras or like kind of fish. Most of the
fish that eat snails, are to big or will not do well in that small of a tank (
I have lost several clown loachs in 10 or 20 gallon tanks)
Many of those fish would also beat up on the smaller fish and 1 fish
would cost more than all 10 fish. There is no sure fire way to get rid of
snails. remove as many of them by hand as possible and as often aspossible. I
would try coppersafe( chemical) first, some times it isnt as effective, but is
easy on most fish. If you use had-a-snail do a water change, and follow
directions. I have used it with no bad side affects. take an abrasive algea
claening pad (one from a pet store that wont damage the glass( not some thing
from a hardware store) and scrape of all of the glass dailyas well as any
filter tubes or other parts that are in the water to get the eges of and wash
any plants or decorations in hat water and let them dry for amonth before
returning them to the tank. The chemicals will drive the snails to the top rim
and out of the water so clean that real well daily . I have tryed several
variations of the vegitable trick, with very little succes, also purchase a
syphon hose for cleaning the gravel at the bottom, it will get most of the dead
snails, and maybe even some live ones. The syphon hose will make doing water
changes alot easyer. Get the one that relys on gravity,not some sort of squeze
pump. The snails won't go away quickly, but eventually they will disapear, but
if you see one snail, it doesn't take long to get 100s. The most common way you
get snails is in live plants or from a used tank or other part that had snails.
Sorry it is such a long post but it getting rid of snail is a pain
and takes time. Make getting the snail out a game or a chalenge forthe 4 year
old if he can handle it with out creating to much havoc.
Scott
rid of snails is a big pain.
Scott
patrick timlin
liv2padl (liv2...@interpath.com) wrote:
: i've had some folks suggest that they [Malayian/trumpet/live
bearing/burrowing snails]
: help keep the tank clean and why would anyone want to get rid of them. my
: own opinion is that they create an unwanted bio-load and while they do eat
: some detritus they create more waste than they clean up ...
Although adding "unwanted bio-load" to a tank is a matter of opinion
(basically of you either want them in the tank or you don't) the other
statement is simply false. Snails do not, and can not, create MORE wastes
than what they take in. If they are creating lots of detritus, it is
because they have lots of algae, uneaten food, decaying plant matter,
etc. in the tank to take in. They can not make more poop than the amount
of food the take in, in fact they make less since some of the food intake
is converted to energy (they have to move around and burrow and such),
making new snails (your favorite use :), and adding body mass.
liv2padl
Of course you're right -- snails don't make more waste product than there
is food for them to make it with -- perhaps it just seems like it if you
have several thousand of them in your tank. I think I was just expressing
my utter hatred for these pestiferous creatures.
In article <65c6v3$pk9$1...@isn.dac.neu.edu>, pti...@lynx.dac.neu.edu
patrick timlin
liv2padl (liv2...@interpath.com) wrote:
: Of course you're right -- snails don't make more waste product than there
: is food for them to make it with -- perhaps it just seems like it if you
: have several thousand of them in your tank. I think I was just expressing
: my utter hatred for these pestiferous creatures.
I rather like them myself and try to encourage their numbers in my
tanks! <smile>
[don't you just wanna slap me now? <grin>]
liv2padl
nah, I don't wanna slap you -- but I'd love to send you all my snails.
In article <65cg3j$pf1$1...@isn.dac.neu.edu>, pti...@lynx.dac.neu.edu
Gernot Lachner
> my own opinion is that they create an unwanted bio-load
> and while they do eat some detritus they create more waste
> than they clean up ...
<sniplet>
> They can not make more poop than the amount of food the
> take in, in fact they make less since some of the food
> intake is converted to energy (they have to move around
> and burrow and such), making new snails (your favorite use
> :), and adding body mass.
hehe - but doesn't "making new snails" = more snails = more
waste ?-)
no, seriously since old one's die off and become themselves
food, an established population will remain fairly constant and
apart from the aesthetic objections some people still have, i
feel snails are more benefit than problem in the long run.
an interesting side-note here;
they are excellent temperature indicators - snails will climb up
and out of the tank in a hurry when temps exceed 28C - this has
saved me a tank full of fry recently !
--
the BAT ~..~
liv2padl
Unfortunately, old ones dying off do not represent a food source ...
they're dead inside their shells and not reachable to fish. Those fish
such as clown loaches who do eat snails, actually eat the eggs, not the
shelled adult. There are some "mollusc chrushers" in the fish biz, but
they're pretty limited in number and may not fit in with the rest of ones
'fauna'. As to maintaining a constant number, this isn't true either --
they breed in a 48-72 hour cycle and produce eggs by the thousands. Their
growth/proliferation rate is logorithemic. They're a SCOURGE, a plague, a
pestilence worse than any which Moses cast upon Pharoh .. he shoulda sent
malaysian trumpet snails instead of grasshoppers .. i'll take grasshoppers
anytime !!!! Cya
In article <N.112597....@196-31-19-154.iafrica.com>,
patrick timlin
liv2padl (liv2...@interpath.com) wrote:
: Unfortunately, old ones dying off do not represent a food source ...
: they're dead inside their shells and not reachable to fish. Those fish
: such as clown loaches who do eat snails, actually eat the eggs, not the
: shelled adult.
Not true. Most of the botia species such as Clown Loaches are very good
at extracting snails right out of their shells. That is why they are
known as good SNAIL eaters and not egg eaters. Mine (Clown Loaches) have
no problems with even hard shelled Malaysian Burrowing snails.
: As to maintaining a constant number, this isn't true either --
: they breed in a 48-72 hour cycle and produce eggs by the thousands. Their
: growth/proliferation rate is logorithemic.
Only as long as there are resources to support such a population. In a
tank that is overfed and undercleaned, the excess food represents a
virtually unlimited food source for snails and in that case will breed to
huge numbers. But without th resources to support the population, snails
can only exist in a limited number. This is true with virtually ANY
animal species.
: They're a SCOURGE, a plague, a
: pestilence worse than any which Moses cast upon Pharoh .. he shoulda sent
: malaysian trumpet snails instead of grasshoppers .. i'll take grasshoppers
: anytime !!!! Cya
hehe I'll take the snails. They don't have the habit of smashing into
your windshield while driving down the highway and covering it with bug
goop.
liv2padl
Not true. Most of the botia species such as Clown Loaches are very good
at extracting snails right out of their shells. That is why they are
known as good SNAIL eaters and not egg eaters. Mine (Clown Loaches) have
no problems with even hard shelled Malaysian Burrowing snails.
€ i didn't know that. :-0
Only as long as there are resources to support such a population. In a
tank that is overfed and undercleaned, the excess food represents a
virtually unlimited food source for snails and in that case will breed to
huge numbers. But without th resources to support the population, snails
can only exist in a limited number.
€ yes, i know but my snails are special. despite the laws of physics my
snails can proliferate by spontaneous generation with no food. i know
this is not possible but my snails do it anyway. ;-)
€ They're still a scourge, a plague, a pestilence and i'm writing my
congressman to get a bill passed against owning any malaysian trumpet
snails. :-(
patrick timlin
liv2padl (liv2...@interpath.com) wrote:
PT: Not true. Most of the botia species such as Clown Loaches are very good
PT: at extracting snails right out of their shells.
: € i didn't know that. :-0
Yep, I haven't actually seen mine do it (but I see the empty shells
laying around) but others around here have said they have seen theirs go
right up to a snail, stick their snout over the opening, and literally
suck them right out.
PT: Only as long as there are resources to support such a population.
: € yes, i know but my snails are special. despite the laws of physics my
: snails can proliferate by spontaneous generation with no food. i know
: this is not possible but my snails do it anyway. ;-)
Have you checked for snail tracks to the fridge? How about your
cabinets? Are you sure that box of Captain Crunch cereal hasn't been
getting emptier and emtier despite that you haven't had a bowl of cereal
in weeks?
: € They're still a scourge, a plague, a pestilence and i'm writing my
: congressman to get a bill passed against owning any malaysian trumpet
: snails. :-(
I'll take them off your hands. Right now I seem to be at a low point
(haven't seen any in my tanks for a long time), so I think the CLown
Loaches are doing too good of a job. If you want to send some my way, I
would be more than happy to take them, congressman be damned!
Beverly Erlebacher
In article <liv2padl-251...@ecity-187.interpath.net>,
liv2padl <liv2...@interpath.com> wrote:
>Unfortunately, old ones dying off do not represent a food source ...
>they're dead inside their shells and not reachable to fish. Those fish
>such as clown loaches who do eat snails, actually eat the eggs, not the
>shelled adult.
Clown loaches do suck live snails out of their shells. You can see them
do this, or find the piles of empty shells. They are pretty selective
about size, however.
>There are some "mollusc chrushers" in the fish biz, but
>they're pretty limited in number and may not fit in with the rest of ones
>'fauna'. As to maintaining a constant number, this isn't true either --
>they breed in a 48-72 hour cycle and produce eggs by the thousands. Their
>growth/proliferation rate is logorithemic. They're a SCOURGE, a plague, a
>pestilence worse than any which Moses cast upon Pharoh .. he shoulda sent
>malaysian trumpet snails instead of grasshoppers .. i'll take grasshoppers
>anytime !!!! Cya
Ah, MTS! My clown loaches don't eat them, but other people's clown loaches
do. Is it a matter of training? Btw, MTSs are livebearing, so you can't get
at the eggs.
When I get too many of them, I siphon them off the surface in the evening.
I find that I need pliers to crush them if I want to feed them back to the
fish. You can trap them pretty easily too.
I only get plagues of them when I am overfeeding to raise fry or condition
adults to breed. After all, they do have to eat something.
>> an interesting side-note here;
>> they are excellent temperature indicators - snails will climb up
>> and out of the tank in a hurry when temps exceed 28C - this has
>> saved me a tank full of fry recently !
>> --
>> the BAT ~..~
This is an interesting observation. Last weekend I was watching a tank
while eating breakfast and noticed that the heater was on a lot, and that
the MTSs were heading up the glass although the light was on. Sure enough,
the thermostat needed to be adjusted - the tank was at 30C! I'll bear this
in mind next time I see the MTSs out in the day time.
Beverly Erlebacher
In article <65en39$il1$1...@isn.dac.neu.edu>,
patrick timlin <pti...@lynx.dac.neu.edu> wrote:
>liv2padl (liv2...@interpath.com) wrote:
>: Unfortunately, old ones dying off do not represent a food source ...
>: they're dead inside their shells and not reachable to fish. Those fish
>: such as clown loaches who do eat snails, actually eat the eggs, not the
>: shelled adult.
>
>known as good SNAIL eaters and not egg eaters. Mine (Clown Loaches) have
>no problems with even hard shelled Malaysian Burrowing snails.
Patrick, *please* let me in on the secret - how did you train your
loaches to eat MTSs?? Threats? Bribes? A good sales pitch?
patrick timlin
Beverly Erlebacher (b...@cs.toronto.edu) wrote:
:PT> Mine (Clown Loaches) have no problems with even hard shelled Malaysian
:PT> Burrowing snails.
: Patrick, *please* let me in on the secret - how did you train your
: loaches to eat MTSs?? Threats? Bribes? A good sales pitch?
I don't know why mine like to eat them. They just have always done so.
However, I did get mine at only about 1.5 inches in standard length and
the tank they were placed in had ONLY M.Trumpet snails in it. So it may
be that they were never originally spoiled on the softer shelled, and I
assume easier to extract, pond snails. Or I may just have some that like
them, plain and simple. I have never seen them actually eat the snails,
but I have a small pile of MTS shells to prove that they do.
Ann2Scott
I have a 3" clown loach in one of my 60s that loves to eat any snails in the
tank, I get them from the pet store(free) as a snack
for him I have never seen him eat them, but every morning I find
several sucked empty shells. The snails are never arround for
more than a week or 2
Ann2Scott
to the Bat
Snails, are sensitive to warmer temps than 28C . Thanks for that
bit of info, it is alot easyer to get them frm the rim than out of the
gravel. I hate to use chemicals, and I don't trust had a snail. I do
use coppersafe when needed though
Scott
Gernot Lachner
> Most of the botia species such as Clown Loaches are very
> good at extracting snails right out of their shells. That
> is why they are known as good SNAIL eaters and not egg
> eaters. Mine (Clown Loaches) have no problems with even
> hard shelled Malaysian Burrowing snails.
>
> Patrick, *please* let me in on the secret - how did you
> train your loaches to eat MTSs?? Threats? Bribes? A good
> sales pitch?
hehehe, considering patrick's way with words it MUST be the
sales pitch !
mine probably learnt it from a pair of half-starved pakistanis,
but then these pond snails don't seem particularly problematic ;)
--
the BAT ~..~
Steve/Sharon
Yes, me too. I'd love to take someone's snail population. I cant seem
to get that kind of luck.
Sharon
liv2padl
oh yeah -- where do you live ... i'll deliver. !!
Beverly Erlebacher
In article <65fb67$ptb$1...@isn.dac.neu.edu>,>:PT> Mine (Clown Loaches) have no problems with even hard shelled Malaysian
>:PT> Burrowing snails.
>: Patrick, *please* let me in on the secret - how did you train your
>: loaches to eat MTSs?? Threats? Bribes? A good sales pitch?
>
>However, I did get mine at only about 1.5 inches in standard length and
>the tank they were placed in had ONLY M.Trumpet snails in it. So it may
>be that they were never originally spoiled on the softer shelled, and I
>assume easier to extract, pond snails. Or I may just have some that like
>them, plain and simple. I have never seen them actually eat the snails,
>but I have a small pile of MTS shells to prove that they do.
Aha! That's the secret, they don't know any better! I got mine at about
the same size as yours, but put them in a tank full of little ramshorns
and pond snails. A couple of hours later, after the light were out, I
heard these loud sounds, from about 30 feet away, like they were banging
the snails against the glass. It took me a while to realize that this
was the loaches fighting over the tastiest snails, making those clicking
noises they are famous for. They ate the pond snails first, then the
ramshorns, but as far as I can tell they aren't eating MTSs unless I
crack the shells for them.
When baby clown loach season comes around again, I will try to get a
few naive individuals and *keep* *them* *ignorant*. Maybe the bigger
guys will get the idea.
Gernot Lachner
> When baby clown loach season comes around again, I will
> try to get a few naive individuals and *keep* *them*
> *ignorant*. Maybe the bigger guys will get the idea.
LOL!
--
the BAT ~..~
Gernot Lachner
> I'd come over and clean your population out for you and
> take them home!
> Kristen
> Yes, me too. I'd love to take someone's snail population.
> I cant seem to get that kind of luck.
>
> Sharon
seems snails don't go for the ladies that much ;)
i think i'll send you both a thanksgiving turkey - stuffed with
snails ;)
hey, it is the silly season after all.
--
the BAT ~..~
dran...@nh.ultranet.cannan.com
liv2...@interpath.com (liv2padl) wrote:
>oh yeah -- where do you live ... i'll deliver. !!
New Hampshire. Quite a drive from the Carolinas (Interpath's
location, and I assume yours).
Kristen
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers."
dran...@nh.ultranet.cannan.com
glac...@iafrica.com (Gernot Lachner) wrote:
>i think i'll send you both a thanksgiving turkey - stuffed with
>snails ;)
>hey, it is the silly season after all.
Not _so_ silly; I've eaten periwinkles before, which I assume to be
very similar to freshwater snails. Not slimy in the least, for those
of you wondering!
CptnCal
<< Not _so_ silly; I've eaten periwinkles before, which I assume to be
very similar to freshwater snails. Not slimy in the least, for those
of you wondering! >>
I wonder how they would do in a home aquarium...? I used to bring a lot of
things home from local ponds and creeks for my home aquarium, but never chanced
upon these during my travels...
The Captain.
dran...@nh.cannan.com
cpt...@aol.com (CptnCal) wrote:
They're marine.
Kristen
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers."
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