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Xiphophorus maculatus and Poecilia Velifera

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Andreasson

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Jan 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/4/97
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Hi!
Does anybody know if it is possible to breed Xiphophorus maculatus (Platy)
with Poecilia Velifera?
Have anyone tried something like that before?

Thankful for answers,

Kristofer Andréasson

SWEDEN

E-Mail: Sten.An...@mailbox.swipnet.se

Johan

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Jan 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/5/97
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Andreasson wrote:
>
> Hi!
> Does anybody know if it is possible to breed Xiphophorus maculatus (Platy)
> with Poecilia Velifera?
> Have anyone tried something like that before?

Why in heavens name, you want to do that for?
Aren't there enough beautiful fish without creating your own. If every
fishkeeper would do such things, nobody know next year wich fish are
original and wich not.
Please don't mix, there already enough 'accidently' mixtures, without
your help.
>
> Thankful for answers,
--
Johan Cleppe
Aquarianen Gent vzw

Homepage: http://www.ping.be/~pin06501/index.htm
Some people "Love" to have....... Others "Have" to love

Dr. Karl Albert Brokstad

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
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In article <01bbfa70$0d279680$0144f482@olof>, "Andreasson" <sten.an...@mailbox.swipnet.se> wrote:
>Hi!
>Does anybody know if it is possible to breed Xiphophorus maculatus (Platy)
>with Poecilia Velifera?
>Have anyone tried something like that before?
>
>Thankful for answers,
>
>Kristofer Andréasson
>
>SWEDEN
>
>E-Mail: Sten.An...@mailbox.swipnet.se

It is not possible to cross mollies and platies.

Karl

Svein A. Fossa

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
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There have been several postings in this newsgroup lately on which
species of livebearers which do - or do not - hybridize. Opinions
presented in these postings have varied to such an extent that I thought
it worthwhile to refer to what science says about hybridization among
Poeciliid species.

The following list has been compiled from data presented in
SCHWARTZ, F. J. (1972): World Literature To Fish Hybrids with an
Analysis by Family, Species, and Hybrid. Publications of the Gulf Coast
Research Laboratory Museum, 3: 328 pp.

The list covers hybrids which have been described in literature prior to
1972, both naturally occurring hybrids, artificial hybrids (from aquaria
and lab. conditions), both fertile and non-fertile hybrids. I have
included only some of the most frequently described hybrids. For a much
more detailed list, with cross-indexing to a huge number of hybrids,
please refer to SCHWARTZ's original publication.

Gambusia affinis X Gambusia heterochir
Gambusia affinis X Girardinus caudimaculatus
Gambusia affinis X Poecilia latipinna
Gambusia affinis X Poecilia mexicana
Gambusia affinis X Poecilia praesidionis
Gambusia holbrooki X Phalloceros caudomaculatus
Poecilia arnoldi X Poecilia nigrofasciata
Poecilia arnoldi X Poecilia sphenops
Poecilia latipinna X Girardinus caudimaculatus
Poecilia latipinna X Poecilia sphenops
Poecilia latipinna X Poecilia velifera
Poecilia latipinna X Poecilia praesidionis
Poecilia mexicana X Girardinus caudimaculatus
Poecilia mexicana X Poecilia latipinna
Poecilia mexicana X Poecilia praesidionis
Poecilia nigrofasciata X Poecilia versicolor
Poecilia nigrofasciata X Poecilia vittata
Poecilia nigrofasciata X Xiphophorus helleri
Poecilia reticulata X Poecilia vittata
Poecilia reticulata X Poecilia latipinna
Poecilia reticulata X Poecilia sphenops
Poecilia reticulata X Poecilia velifera
Poecilia sphenops X Poecilia vittata
Poecilia velifera X Poecilia sphenops
Xiphophorus maculatus X Xiphophorus couchianus
Xiphophorus maculatus X Xiphophorus variatus
Xiphophorus maculatus X Xiphophorus xiphidium
Xiphophorus maculatus X Xiphophorus helleri
Xiphophorus helleri X Poecilia reticulata
Xiphophorus helleri X Xiphophorus maculatus
Xiphophorus helleri X Xiphophorus montezumae
Xiphophorus variatus X Xiphophoris maculatus

It should be evident that hybridization is quite common among
livebearers. I have personally observed (presumed non-fertile) hybrids
of Poecilia reticulata (Guppy) and molly varieties, as well as fertile
hybrids of many Xiphophorus spp. and varieties (Platies and Swordtails).
As has been remarked by other participants to this thread, most aquarium
varieties of Platies and Swordtails have actually been produced by
cross-breeding. Many Molly-varieties are probably also the result of
hybridizations of species like Poecilias sphenops, P. velifera and P.
latipinna, primarily.

With reference to the original question by Kristofer Andréasson: Hybrids
of Xiphophorus maculatus and Poecilia velifera was reported by SCHMIDT,
H. (1939: Beitrage zur kenntnis der Tropischen Susswasser-Teleostier.
Dissertatin, Berlin, 107 pp). I have not seen this publication myself,
however, and do not feel confident that the information is correct.

When all this has been said - PLEASE OBSERVE: I do not think that
hybridization is something which the average hobbyist should pursue.
Except for in specific endeavours to produce new varieties off well
known hybrid varieties (like Swordtails and Platies), aquarists should
rather sthrive to keep the species (and geographic strains) pure. If you
(by accident, or otherwise) produce hybrids they should never be given
or sold to other aquarists without clearly stating that these are
hybrids!

Regards,

Svein A. Fossa

**************************************************

AKVARIEKONSULENTEN - Grimstad, Norway
Consultant in Aquarium Technique and Ichthyology

**************************************************


cpt...@aol.com

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
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As far as I know, all live-bearers will interbreed though the hybrid
offspring is almost always sterile. I have never had it happen in my
tanks before, but since I only keep guppies, that's not saying much. I
have a friend who has a fish we believe is a guppy/platy cross, though it
is still young yet so we aren't sure.. A fellow I used to know
successfully crossed guppies with mosquito fish...ugly little buggers they
were! To a one, all the hybrids were sterile. Hope this helps.

BCNU!!!


JKSinrod

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Jan 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/6/97
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wow what a response! you should recieve an award for this posting. I am
honored being on the same newsgroup as you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Remember when you went away and I got on my knees and begged you not to leave because I'd go berserk? Well....... you left me anyhow and now the days got worse and worse and now you see I've gone completely out of my mind!

from, "They're coming to take me away"

JKSi...@aol.com JKSi...@aol.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dr. Karl Albert Brokstad

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Jan 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/7/97
to

In article <32D174...@sn.no>, sfo...@sn.no wrote:
>There have been several postings in this newsgroup lately on which
>species of livebearers which do - or do not - hybridize. Opinions
>presented in these postings have varied to such an extent that I thought
>it worthwhile to refer to what science says about hybridization among
>Poeciliid species.

I have a few comments to the following posting:

>It should be evident that hybridization is quite common among
>livebearers.

It is not as common in nature as in the aquarium trade. Closely related
species may live side by side in nature, despite this hybrids are not present
in these habitats.

>of Poecilia reticulata (Guppy) and molly varieties, as well as fertile
>hybrids of many Xiphophorus spp. and varieties (Platies and Swordtails).
>As has been remarked by other participants to this thread, most aquarium
>varieties of Platies and Swordtails have actually been produced by
>cross-breeding. Many Molly-varieties are probably also the result of
>hybridizations of species like Poecilias sphenops, P. velifera and P.
>latipinna, primarily.

Many of the hybrids listed are produced by under very artificial conditions
which the average aquarist are not able to reproduce, e.g. artificial
insemination.

>
>With reference to the original question by Kristofer Andréasson: Hybrids
>of Xiphophorus maculatus and Poecilia velifera was reported by SCHMIDT,
>H. (1939: Beitrage zur kenntnis der Tropischen Susswasser-Teleostier.
>Dissertatin, Berlin, 107 pp). I have not seen this publication myself,
>however, and do not feel confident that the information is correct.
>

I agree !

The genetic make up of Poecilia species (Guppy, Molly and Limia)
and Xiphophorus species (Platy and Swords) are so different that it is
unlikely that viable offspring will be produced. If I remember correctly the
number of chromosome pairs are different in these two groups.

>When all this has been said - PLEASE OBSERVE: I do not think that
>hybridization is something which the average hobbyist should pursue.
>Except for in specific endeavours to produce new varieties off well
>known hybrid varieties (like Swordtails and Platies), aquarists should
>rather sthrive to keep the species (and geographic strains) pure. If you
>(by accident, or otherwise) produce hybrids they should never be given
>or sold to other aquarists without clearly stating that these are
>hybrids!

Unless you keep natural forms of livebearers and not culture forms
(99% of the livebearers sold in pets shops are culture forms) I dont see any
reason for not mixing species and variants. They are most likely not pure
species anyway.

Possible advantages by crossing/hybridizing
- The offspring may become hardier/robust
- new exiting patterns/colours/bodyshape/finshape may occur

Possible disadvantages
- you dont know what you get
- The offspring may be infertile
- You may loose an allreaddy atractive fish form


Karl

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