Online vs. LFS prices
GNastasi
Our LFS is expanding, which I'm very pleased to find out. They've bought
the store next to them and knocked the wall out and are nearly tripling
their size. As a result they're going to be stocking more of the 'better
brand' aquarium products. Including Penguin/Marineland products.
At the various recommendations on this newsgroup, I'd shopped around a bit
and settled on Big Al's Online to purchase a Penguin 330 biowheel power
filter. Cost $21 and change there, which I knew was a good price, but had
no idea *how* good.
LFS has the same filter in stock now ... and are asking eighty bucks for it!
Is this a common price differential between online sources and local fish
stores?
--Gayle
Matt
"GNastasi" <ga...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Yep, I try to buy most of my aquarium supplies online. I know it is best to
support you LFS, but I just can't afford to pay prices 3 to 4 times that of
online vendors.
Matt in MI
>
> --Gayle
>
>
>
E.W. Marshall
Deluxe" which costs about $80 anywhere online, but sells for up to
$170 at LFS, and an "Eheim 2026 Filter" which I purchased last week
for $165 online but sells for $289 at the LFS. I think it needs to be
noted, however, that Big Al's and some of the other "online" stores
also have retail stores which would also classify them as a LFS to
people who live near those places, so this really does say alot. I am
always comparing prices between about three different "mail-order" pet
supply stores before I make a significant purchase. On the other side
of things, I do have an appreciation for how hard it is to make a good
profit in the LFS business, but I also think that many of these places
try to make all their money off a few sales rather than putting more
effort into being competitive and marketing. In my logic, this is why
many LFS are becoming nothing more than tax write offs while places
like:
www.petsolutions.com
www.petwarehouse.com
www.bigalsonline.com
are going to continue to do well and remain in business. They've
figured out what customers want: Convenience, large selection tailored
to the customer's needs, good pricing, customer service, etc etc etc.
The same stuff that makes any business successful. In a nutshell,
some people feel a strong loyalty to support their LFS and help them
stay out of the red - there's some merit to this, but I tend to
believe that MANY LFS need to "get with times," wise up, and realize
that this is the "electronic age" and just because they may be the
"only game" for a 50 mile radius in their town, doesn't necessarily
mean they've got "Park Place & The Boardwalk." If they want to
succeed, their going to have to do it right, or find some other way to
earn a living. It's a customer's market now - thanks to the internet.
*smiles:
E.W. Marshall
Colorado Rockies
NOSPAM...@direcpc.com
(just remove the NOSPAM to email me)
Reefer
E.W. Marshall <emm...@direcpc.com> wrote in message
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GNastasi
purchases online while trying to find a happy medium in giving my LFS my
business regarding things like filter media, food, chemical supplies, etc.
And of course the fish ... I've yet to try to order fish online and would
worry about shipping loss and stress.
Since they're the only local source I'd hate to see them suffer, especially
after going through what has to be a huge expense in expanding as much as
they're doing. But I can't afford paying eighty dollars for a twenty dollar
filter, either. :-)
Thanks for the input, everyone!
--Gayle
"E.W. Marshall" <emm...@direcpc.com> wrote in message
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> On the other side
Ralph Ellis
stores. An independent is typically buying the item for about the same amount of
money that the online store is selling it for. Chain stores such as I own, one of
the Pet Valu chain, pay about the same as Big Als or the online dealers for
specific equipment. One difference is that online dealers frequently sell for
zero, count it, zero profit. Most online pet supply dealers are massive money
losers. They have to sell the product at close to zero profit to get market share
and to get people to get over the fear of buying online. Some online retailers
sell for a more realistic mark up that does reflect the absence of maintaining a
sales room, displays and employees. These retailers do well by establishing a
segment of the market that is not regularly well served, for example marine
aquarium equipment, and building a base there. But they make their money on items
that their competitors are not selling at rock bottom prices.
Independents go out of business at a massive rate and LFS stores that do not have
large scale livestock sales will go out of business rapidly. Their days are
numbered unless they can establish themselves as unique establishments serving a
specialized need. One of my independent friends has built a market for discus and
african cichlids locally. He may survive because of it. One of my local
competitors who has been in business for 17 years may go out of business because
there is no unique identity to his store. I can sell for less than him on all the
dry goods because I am part of a chain. If I carried livestock, he would no
longer be there.
Don't count on too many of the online retailers making a go of it either. Outside
of items that are pure commodities that people do not need to see to buy, i.e.
filtration material, there will always be some resistance to buying something
unseen. Many online retailers are subsidized by the profits from the brick and
mortar sides of the business. Eventually, if there is no profit, the business
will die or be reorganized. Can anyone spell Amazon.com? There will be a place
for online retailers but the business model has to include selling the product
for more than what you pay for it and charging for delivery. On the other hand
mark-ups in the aquarium supplies business are higher than most of the cat and
dog field and these should drop over time. I price aggressively and by picking
and choosing my spots, I can sell for less than Big Als Online for selected items
and still make money. This for me means pushing certain brands such as Seachem,
Hikari and Wardley or selling unique items that the online retailers do not sell.
There is room for many types of retailers but the one that you will see less and
less of is the independent LFS. Sometimes, that is a good thing and sometimes a
bag thing but it is the trend of the last 20 years.
Ralph Ellis
hds
I purchased a biowheel mini at a local petshop for $19.95 vs $12.95 from
www.thatpetplace.com A heater for $9.95 vs $17.95 at the local petshop.
frankly it depends. If I get the advice and help I need from the petshop I
don't mind spending the extra money. I still buy large bulky Items and
about 1/2 of the fish I want from them. Yet as I am usually the one
educating them so I don't feel the moral need to buy from them any more.
finally, don't assume that the $90 was a ripoff. The local petshop simply
has overhead that the mail order place does not. (Like shoplifting, or
maintaining a store front etc.) Our local petshop charges about 10% below
MSL for most stuff. and sometime give me an additional 5%. But remember
most petshops are honest places. Sure they want to make a nice living but
you don't do that by ripping your customer off. But they honestly can't
afford to sell at the mail order price.
/harry/
www.seapony.homestead.com
"GNastasi" <ga...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Averygacav
ask me (your LFS aquarist) how to put "it" together, why it won't work etc.
When I
am at work I am not a hobbyist, I am an asset to the business and if you don't
spend money you are not ENTITLED to the knowledge you lack. This is the most
valuable part of the retail biz IMHO.
GNastasi
news:20010514085310...@ng-mj1.aol.com...
Well, now, after reading back through my posts several times, I can't find
any hint of a statement that would cause you to presume that I would be so
rude as to ask for advice from my LFS on a filter I didn't buy from them....
Or that I considered the markup a "ripoff"....
Or that I didn't understand the need to support my LFS (in fact I believe I
sent one whole post about ways I could continue to support them and how I'd
hate to see them suffer, and started the whole conversation with the fact
that I'm so pleased that they're able to expand as they have).
And excuse me, but I'm "entitled" to any "knowledge" I put in the effort to
research and obtain, thank you very much.
--Gayle
Trevor Holyoak
in that they have a 14 day return policy on the fish, so that's where
I buy my fish. All the aquarium supplies - filters, etc. - I buy from
Pet Warehouse online. Not only are there prices tremendously better
than Petsmart, but they've got a lot more stuff to choose from, rather
than just 1 or 2 brands. Petco is also in my area, and they seem to
have a better variety of fish (including saltwater, which Petsmart
doesn't carry at all), but they don't advertise any return policy on
fish, their prices are higher than Petsmart's, and the one time I
actually did buy from them, I had a bad experience.
The local independent shops I have not been very impressed with in the
past, and have not visited any recently.
If I only want something small, I usually just get it at Petsmart.
Otherwise, I order a bunch of stuff at once from Pet Warehouse to make
the most of the shipping charges.
- Trevor
On Sat, 12 May 2001 13:38:09 GMT, "GNastasi" <ga...@yahoo.com> wrote:
JSL
barbs) at Petco. They have a 14 day return policy on FW fish. I had one
die, and they replaced it. They also gave me a 50% off coupon (when I
didn't have mine with me). They have no return policy on SW fish.. I've
got the documentation as to why somewhere--if you want it, I'll dig it
up. Something on very specific environmental requirements, etc... Dunno
exactly.
HTH,
Stephane
In article <s250gto3b67lhsm2d...@4ax.com>, Trevor Holyoak
<tre...@holyoak.com> wrote:
> Petco is also in my area, and they seem to have a better variety of
> fish (including saltwater, which Petsmart doesn't carry at all), but
> they don't advertise any return policy on fish, and the one time I
> actually did buy from them, I had a bad experience.
--
Please remove the ".at" before the "@" in my email to send email
(it's a lot easier to do that than get rid of spam).
Averygacav
not meant personally, or aimed at one post
or poster. In a strange twist of fate, Not 12 hrs after posting this I had a
guy bring a
trickle filter into the store that was that was cracked in shipping and ask if
I 1) could fix
the cracks 2)could show him how it went together. This Yahoo had better buy a
lot
of fish!!
Again sorry for any misunderstanding.
E.W. Marshall
are "massive money losers."
On Sat, 12 May 2001 23:39:50 -0400, Ralph Ellis
<ell...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Most online pet supply dealers are massive money
>losers.
E.W. Marshall
Tom
I just got a retail store here last month and I've make more money
selling fish and products to local customer than wasting my time selling
stuff over the internet nearly a year ago...
Truely, the revenues weren't as hot as before but that's life.
ps: yes, majority of on-line retailer are selling stuff at or near there
cost. Profit magin is extremely low. I know, I am one of them.
"E.W. Marshall" wrote:
--
Located in S. California. We specialized in fresh and marine, cichlid,
tank set up, and services. Information, pictures and aquarium supply
also available here. Home on the web http://www.paps2000.com
E.W. Marshall
My observation has been, in the two cities I've lived near, that the
"Mom & Pop" LFS is practically doomed. In the first town, I actually
worked at one of them during my high school years. A perfectly good
LFS with a nice selection of merchandise, decent pricing, and well
cared for fish, yet I can recall "$10 days" in sales. This was the
only LFS in a prosperous town back in the late 1970's. Since that
time, and in another city of 1 million people or so, I've seen 3 LFSs
repeatedly dying a slow death and changing hands numerous times. Each
time I've gone into any one of them, I've never been among more than
maybe 3 or 4 paying customers - and this is a generous statement. In
these three, as soon as ownership would change hands, there'd be
exuberance and sales, grand openings, and some bargains to entice
people into the place. After some months, this exuberance would die
down to melancholy, a new pricing scheme would inevitably ensue which
just made me shake my head, and customer visits would slow down to a
trickle. I believe this is WHY so many of these have taken to the
internet - with some doing, apparently, extraordinarily well to date
with online sales . Now, I'm not talking about the "marts" or "chain
stores" here - I am referring to "family owned" local, FISH, stores.
If I go into a "Pet's Mart" it's a whole different ball game. Here
we'd find numerous consumers getting bones for "Doggie," and buying
ceder chips for their Hamsters, or a bird and cage. One stop pet
shopping - big selection, and pricing that would make any nearby LFS
try to exhaust every conceivable strategy before putting up the
inevitably "For Sale" sign. I can't call such "chain store" a LFS
store, although chain store owners would simply adore me if I started
doing that. I'd much rather support a LFS with my money than go into a
"Pet's Mart" or "Wal Mart," and every time it's "win-win" I will
gladly choose the LFS, but I wasn't born to keep someone who is
charging nearly $300 for an Ehiem 2026 in business - sorry, no guilt
for ME. I believe this is where the online aquarium supply people fill
the need for many of us. We don't get the personal service, but we do
get pricing that is more realistic, and some are earning enough
business from people like your's truly to stay in business, continue
creating jobs, and be mentioned and recommended 10 zillion times in
news groups such as this one. We can be sure that those who have been
savvy enough with their creative marketing and capital are currently
not losing money - in fact, over the years, we've seen their
expansion. For me, in lieu of seeing their tax returns, that's enough
to go on.
Dave
and I think the reason may be because it seems to be the
*only* LFS in the area (within a 20 mile radius of my house,
anyway) where the people who work there know what they're
talking about. So the knowledgeable aquarists in the area go
there almost exclusively.
Zayne Ismail
online.
E.W. Marshall <emm...@direcpc.com> wrote in message
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