Softening water with RO
Eric
I bought my first tank, a 5 gallon half-hex a couple of months ago and
quickly outgrew it, falling in love with the hobby.
I live in Indianapolis, where the water is really hard, 300 ppm
general hardness, and pH 8.4 out of the tap. I plan on heavily
planting my tank and am going to to have 2x55 watts of compact
flourescent lighting as well as the Nutrafin/Hagen Natural CO2 system,
which is essentially a yeast/sugar DIY set-up.
I would really enjoy to keep south-american fish... Angels, Cardinal
Tetras, and maybe some Rams or Apistogrammas, along with a few
corydoras, otocinclus, and amano shrimp.
I understand that these fish prefer a softer, more acidic set up and I
would like to provide that as close as possible. I understand that
most of these fish are pretty hardy (angels and rams) and that if you
drip acclimate them for a long time (several hours), they can do fine
in harder water. I have no intention of breeding any of these fish,
but it would be cool if it happened on it's own.
RO water from the grocery store comes out at a hardness of zero ppm
and a pH of 6.8. I am currently changing about 5 gallons a day with RO
water ( for the last two days) and nothing seems to really be
changing. Can I expect some changes to take place in the near future?
I would consider stuffing a bit of peat in my Penguin 170 filter, but
I am not sure if there is room and I really would rather not have the
yellowish/brown water that comes along with it. I do have fresh,
active carbon in the Penguin 170 (came with it) so, would that remove
the color of the peat, without removing the water softening benefits
of the peat?
If anyone has any suggestion for softening water without using off the
shelf chemicals, I would appreciate it. I have heard nothing but bad
things about these supposed pH reducers in a bottle, so I would like
to stay away from them. If anyone else has any other suggestions for
me in regards to my set-up, I would also love to hear it.
Dave Painter
Eric <ericmich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:872b21b7.04042...@posting.google.com...
<snipped>
> I live in Indianapolis, where the water is really hard, 300 ppm
> general hardness, and pH 8.4 out of the tap. I plan on heavily
>
> Tetras, and maybe some Rams or Apistogrammas, along with a few
> corydoras, otocinclus, and amano shrimp.
>
> I understand that these fish prefer a softer, more acidic set up and I
> would like to provide that as close as possible. I understand that
> most of these fish are pretty hardy (angels and rams) and that if you
> drip acclimate them for a long time (several hours), they can do fine
> in harder water. I have no intention of breeding any of these fish,
> but it would be cool if it happened on it's own.
> If anyone else has any other suggestions for
> me in regards to my set-up, I would also love to hear it.
I live in a hard water area of the UK, my angels and Tetras are all locally
bred fish.
Bred in a highly technical water treatment 'factory' for want of a better
word.
They have been acclimatised while young to the local conditions and are
doing really
well. I'd suggest you contact your LFS and ask about fish they stock which
are already
conditioned to your local water.
Much easier in the long term with no worries over pH crash etc.
Dave
Eric
Dave,
Thanks for the Advice. The local fish store here keeps all of their
soft water fish in RO tanks. The rest of the fish in the store are
just in the Indianpolis Tap water. I asked them about acclimating, and
they just reccommended the long drip method at one hour for every .2
difference in pH. Therefore, going from 8.4 to 6.8 should take 8
hours!!! That seems kind of silly. Some of the other local fish stores
are huge chains, petsmart, petco,... I have no idea what they use in
their tanks. (and I would assume that their employess don't either.)
I will look into finding some local breeders.
NetMax
> I bought my first tank, a 5 gallon half-hex a couple of months ago and
> quickly outgrew it, falling in love with the hobby.
Seeding from your 5g should accelerate your cycling. It can be a very
addictive hobby.
> I live in Indianapolis, where the water is really hard, 300 ppm
> general hardness, and pH 8.4 out of the tap. I plan on heavily
> planting my tank and am going to to have 2x55 watts of compact
> flourescent lighting as well as the Nutrafin/Hagen Natural CO2 system,
> which is essentially a yeast/sugar DIY set-up.
>
> I would really enjoy to keep south-american fish... Angels, Cardinal
> Tetras, and maybe some Rams or Apistogrammas, along with a few
> corydoras, otocinclus, and amano shrimp.
>
> I understand that these fish prefer a softer, more acidic set up and I
> would like to provide that as close as possible. I understand that
> most of these fish are pretty hardy (angels and rams) and that if you
> drip acclimate them for a long time (several hours), they can do fine
> in harder water. I have no intention of breeding any of these fish,
> but it would be cool if it happened on it's own.
Ordinarily, I try not to mess with the water too much, but 15dgH and
8.4pH is quite a jump for some of the fish you mentioned. Not
impossible, though not recommended.
> RO water from the grocery store comes out at a hardness of zero ppm
> and a pH of 6.8. I am currently changing about 5 gallons a day with RO
> water ( for the last two days) and nothing seems to really be
> changing. Can I expect some changes to take place in the near future?
Not really. Your dkH will be so high as too absorb the effects of the
dilution for a while. Your gH will be dropping, but your pH will still
be up there. Fortunately your CO2 injection will bring your pH down,
once your kH is low enough, but it's effects are only while it is
running, and you need to reset it about once a month. Are you sure you
want to go to all this trouble?
> I would consider stuffing a bit of peat in my Penguin 170 filter, but
> I am not sure if there is room and I really would rather not have the
> yellowish/brown water that comes along with it. I do have fresh,
> active carbon in the Penguin 170 (came with it) so, would that remove
> the color of the peat, without removing the water softening benefits
> of the peat?
The tannins would saturate your carbon quite quickly, and while it won't
affect the softening effect, I don't think peat in a Penquin 170 will get
you very far as the prime method of softening when you are at 15dgH and
8.4pH. If you had your water where you wanted it, then a bit of peat
might help keep it there, or you can prefilter your water with peat, but
just having it in your filter is not a viable option.
> If anyone has any suggestion for softening water without using off the
> shelf chemicals, I would appreciate it. I have heard nothing but bad
> things about these supposed pH reducers in a bottle, so I would like
> to stay away from them. If anyone else has any other suggestions for
> me in regards to my set-up, I would also love to hear it.
Gotta ask if you're sure you want to maintain a softwater tank with a
hardwater source, as it's a bit of trouble. You can improve the
situation by going with local bred fish, which will handle high 7s of pH,
and by keeping a low fish load in the tank (more fish = more food = more
water changes).
RO water is usually premixed with some hard water (ie: maybe 6:1 in your
case), then with CO2, and a bit of peat, everything should settle in
nicely around 6.8pH (will depend on a few variables). Do small water
changes keeping your RO/tap recipe, otherwise your gH will start
climbing, and the increase in kH will start pushing your pH up (even with
CO2).
Alternately, go planted, CO2 and keep neutral-hard water fishes. You
will probably settle somewhere around 7.4pH, and if the water hardness is
kept steady, many fish would be fine in it. Featherfin rainbowfish are
just as delicate and probably more entertaining than Cardinals. Other
plant friendly hardwater fish include various puffers, livebearers,
snails and some African lake cichlids. Some of the fish you mentioned
would adapt, especially if locally bred.
I'm not sure about the drip method's effectiveness for gH extremes. In
adjusting fish from one extreme to another, it's not just the pH, but the
hardness. Their gill cells are of a thickness which is optimal given the
transition between their blood and the viscosity of the water. What I
have read is that moving fish from very soft water to very hard, causes
respiratory distress which lasts for several days. Moving fish from very
hard water to very soft water can cause cells to rupture. I don't see
cells compensating for the change in only an hour or two. Six hours
would not even be sufficient, but might make enough of a difference so
they survive the transition.
--
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