Amiracle Wet Dry Filter
Eric Edelman
I am considering purchasing my first marine setup. I currently maintain 8
freshwater tanks with cichlids (Mostly S. American, but I do have a tank of
Africans).
Anyways, my local fish store, who I buy livestock and other items from
recommends the following as a marine setup:
55 Gallon All-Glass with double tube hoods
Cabinet Stand
75 lbs. Crushed Coral
Amiracle Wet Dry Filter
That's it. He maintains tanks in his store this way (fish only), and they
look great, the fish look healthy, and the tanks are crystal clear. This is
ALL the filter he uses on each tank. No powerheads, No UGF, no Protein
Skimmer, No canister/power filters.....NOTHING! Just the Amiracle Wet/Dry
setup.
Anyways, I'm planning on starting a fish only marine tank. The other 2
shops in town have completely different philosophies on filtration for
marine tanks, but Joe (the one with the healthy looking fish and clean
tanks) swears by these wet/dry units. He states, "The undergravel filter is
old technology, these are 10 time better."
Does anyone dispute Joe? Is there something else I need to know before I
plunge into this? Does this sound like a screwy setup to anyone else?
Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by the whole thing. I maintain freshwater tanks
in my home from 10-180 gallons, and I can't imagine only having one method
of filtration. Are these Wet/Dry's that good??
Thanks in advance.
Reply by email or post to this newsgroup. Thanks!
--
Eric Edelman
edel...@interpath.com
Brian Baird
In article <01bba6a6$5d5bcd60$8c023bcf@D002078> "Eric Edelman" <edel...@interpath.com> writes:
>I am considering purchasing my first marine setup. I currently maintain 8
>freshwater tanks with cichlids (Mostly S. American, but I do have a tank of
>Africans).
> Anyways, my local fish store, who I buy livestock and other items from
>recommends the following as a marine setup:
> 55 Gallon All-Glass with double tube hoods
> Cabinet Stand
> 75 lbs. Crushed Coral
> Amiracle Wet Dry Filter
>
> That's it. He maintains tanks in his store this way (fish only), and they
>look great, the fish look healthy, and the tanks are crystal clear. This is
>ALL the filter he uses on each tank. No powerheads, No UGF, no Protein
>Skimmer, No canister/power filters.....NOTHING! Just the Amiracle Wet/Dry
>setup.
Ask him to do a nitrate test on his tanks. If they are below 40 he's doing
massive water changes when you aren't looking.
> Anyways, I'm planning on starting a fish only marine tank. The other 2
>shops in town have completely different philosophies on filtration for
>marine tanks, but Joe (the one with the healthy looking fish and clean
>tanks) swears by these wet/dry units. He states, "The undergravel filter is
>old technology, these are 10 time better."
"Joe" either is really into selling wet-dry's or he doesn't understand
biological filtration. Running a wet-dry filter by itself is the same as
running a UGF by itself. You NEED mechanical filtration. STRONG mechanical
filtration. You cannot allow fish waste and uneaten food to break down in the
system. Since saltwater fish "drink" their water, they will invariably drink
their own waste if you allow it to break down biologically.
The undergravel is NOT old technology. Its CHEAP, it WORKS and if you
maintain it properly ALONG with a good mechanical filter, you won't
experience any problems with it.
Look, undergravel's main disadvantage is that that the plate tends to collect
faeces over time. You can counteract this by using a STRONG mechanical
filter, and vacuuming your gravel on time with your water changes (something
you need to do anyways.)
> Does anyone dispute Joe? Is there something else I need to know
before I>plunge into this? Does this sound like a screwy setup to anyone
else? > Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by the whole thing. I maintain
freshwater tanks>in my home from 10-180 gallons, and I can't imagine only
having one method>of filtration. Are these Wet/Dry's that good??
Wet-drys are good biologial filters, but at that they are over priced and not
neccisary for marine. The worst thing about them is the are sold WITHOUT any
sort of STRONG mechanical filter on them.
My advice to you:
Spend the money on a 75 gallon tank instead of the wet-dry. If you have room
that is, but you can do the 55 too.
Setup as follows:
Tank (duh!)
Undergravel filter powered by powerheads.
Aruba or pukka shell substrate. (crushed coral breaks down over time and
makes a mess of the UGF and the tank, not to mention it has crummy alkalinity.)
1 Magnum 350 or HOT Magnum filter using the micron cartridge full time.
Now, the use of the magnum is soley for mechanical filtration. Running the
micron filter FULL time ensures you are getting the proper amount of
mechanical filtration. Buy an extra cartiridge so you can switch them out and
bleach them every 3 weeks. But don't let it go longer than 3 weeks, the waste
will break down and defeat the purpose.
Why the magnum? Simple. Once you pull out a dirty filter ask yourself this:
"Do I want my fish drinking this?" If you let ANY waste remain in ANY sort of
system it will break down over time into nitrates and dissolved organics.
Neither are healthy to your fish. Do yourself a favor and ditch the wet-dry.
If you have any more question why I'm so staunchy about this, e-mail me and
I'll explain more.
-b
Peter Simon
Eric Edelman wrote:
>
> I am considering purchasing my first marine setup. I currently maintain 8
> freshwater tanks with cichlids (Mostly S. American, but I do have a tank of
> Africans).
> Anyways, my local fish store, who I buy livestock and other items from
> recommends the following as a marine setup:
> 55 Gallon All-Glass with double tube hoods
> Cabinet Stand
> 75 lbs. Crushed Coral
> Amiracle Wet Dry Filter
>
> That's it. He maintains tanks in his store this way (fish only), and they
> look great, the fish look healthy, and the tanks are crystal clear. This is
> ALL the filter he uses on each tank. No powerheads, No UGF, no Protein
> Skimmer, No canister/power filters.....NOTHING! Just the Amiracle Wet/Dry
> setup.
>
> shops in town have completely different philosophies on filtration for
> marine tanks, but Joe (the one with the healthy looking fish and clean
> tanks) swears by these wet/dry units. He states, "The undergravel filter is
> old technology, these are 10 time better."
>
> plunge into this? Does this sound like a screwy setup to anyone else?
> Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by the whole thing. I maintain freshwater tanks
> in my home from 10-180 gallons, and I can't imagine only having one method
> of filtration. Are these Wet/Dry's that good??
>
> Reply by email or post to this newsgroup. Thanks!
>
> --
> Eric Edelman
> edel...@interpath.com
First of all, no one is really wrong, its all a matter of opinion. I had
my marine tank with just a Wet-Dry filter for a long time. It was fine,
but I felt I needed a mechanical filter so the filter pads in the
wet-dry would not get so dirty. (And some the solid particles were
smaller that the filter). I added and old diatom filter someone gave
me. I found this kept the water cleaner. I would stir up the bottom of
the tank and then turn on the diatom filter and let it suck up the
dirt. I also used it when I cleaned the algea off the tank walls. I
did not leave it in the tank all the time as it was too much and
disturbed the inhabitants and made it very difficult for my clown fish
to get food.
Since then I have replaced the wet-dry with a fluidized bed filter
(Almost the same price). It is smaller, quieter, and does a great job.
I still use the diatom filter once in a while to keep the tank clean.
Is this the correct way to keep a tank? Thats just a matter of
opinion. It works for me, and thats all that matters to me.
I have heard people keeping marine tanks with just live rock. I know
people who use protein skimmers. For me this fit my budget, and I
understand how it works. The only advice I can give is if you are set
on buying a wet-dry filter, get a catalog, look at the picture and build
one using plexiglass and a 10 gal fish tank and save $100 or so.
Peter
Mitchell DeKeyrel
We are running an amiracle wet/dry by itself. We do however have a
powerhead running for extra circulation. The tank had only been cycled
for a few months, but so far everything is great. Water is clear, all
the levels are perfect, and the fish are doing great.
Let me know if you have any questions.
M
lou_rehberger
In article , "Eric says...
Yes! The Americal Wet/Dry filter is that good!
Brian Baird
In article <51ubak$9...@lex.zippo.com> Lou Rehberger writes:
>Yes! The Americal Wet/Dry filter is that good!
IS NOT. (This from a guy who knows a wet-dry is STILL a wet-dry.)
-b
lou_rehberger
>
>Ask him to do a nitrate test on his tanks. If they are below 40 he's doing
>massive water changes when you aren't looking.
>
> "Joe" either is really into selling wet-dry's or he doesn't understand
>biological filtration. Running a wet-dry filter by itself is the same as
>running a UGF by itself. You NEED mechanical filtration. STRONG mechanical
>filtration.
Are you inferring there is an economical way to remove nitrates from an aquarium
other than with water changes? If so, I would like to know about it.
The Americal Wet/Dry filter does contain three mechanical filters.
I only make 10% water changes, once a week, and my nitrates are never above 40.
DC
In article <rcbaird.89...@fred.net>, rcb...@fred.net (Brian Baird)
wrote:
Agreed, what's the point of buying a wet-dry when setting up a new system.
Protein Skimmer, live rock. Hell, with sufficient live rock, a live sand
NNR even seems unnecessary (at least it seems so in my tank).
DC
copious use of live rock, live sand beds..... kills nitrates dead!
lou_rehberger
In article , rcb...@fred.net says...
>
>In article <51ubak$9...@lex.zippo.com> Lou Rehberger writes:
>
>>Yes! The Americal Wet/Dry filter is that good!
>
>IS NOT. (This from a guy who knows a wet-dry is STILL a wet-dry.)
>-b
>
Brian Baird
In article <51vepg$n...@lex.zippo.com> Lou Rehberger writes:
>>
>>Ask him to do a nitrate test on his tanks. If they are below 40 he's doing
>>massive water changes when you aren't looking.
>>
>> "Joe" either is really into selling wet-dry's or he doesn't understand
>>biological filtration. Running a wet-dry filter by itself is the same as
>>running a UGF by itself. You NEED mechanical filtration. STRONG mechanical
>>filtration.
>Are you inferring there is an economical way to remove nitrates from an aquarium
>other than with water changes? If so, I would like to know about it.
Uh, yes. Its called, Egaads!, PREVENTION! Wowser, never thought of that one!
>The Americal Wet/Dry filter does contain three mechanical filters.
Foam pads don't count. (see below)
>I only make 10% water changes, once a week, and my nitrates are never above
40.
Funny, I make 25% water changes every 2 months and mine aren't over 10-20.
Also, wait 2 years and see what your nitrates are at then. Do you tear your
tank down annually? Whats your alkalinity staying at?
The problem with wet-dry filters is they have no GOOD mechanical filtration.
This really can only be acheived by micron filters and is crucial to keeping a
healthy marine tank.
Facts:
#1: Dissolved organics (minor acids, proteins, fats, lipids, nitrate) are
toxic to marine fish. (If you ask why, I SHOULD by my right means hit you,
but... The biggest difference between freshwater fish and marine fish is that
freshwater fish normally have to work to keep bodily salts and excrete excess
moisture. Marine fish do excactly the opposite due to the osmotic pressure
from the higher salt. Marine fish have to work to keep water intake up, and
excrete excess salts [See Tetra's MANUAL OF FISH HEALTH] Therefore, if a
marine fish is drink dissolved organics, its like you drinking the product of
your protein skimmer. Mmm mmm good!)
#2: Dissolved organics are toxic to most marine fish and will kill sensitive
species (butterflys, certain gobies, anthias) quite quickly in unsatisfactory
conditions.
#3: Dissolved Organics are the direct result of organic decomposition. I.e.
uneaten food, fish poop, partially digested food (see: FISH POOP) other
various wastes.
Wow. Just kinda wrapped that up in a nutshell. In other words, if you allow
the fish waste and uneaten food to remain in the tank, yikes! Yellow water,
high nitrates, high amounts of water changes. Unfortunately for you bob, even
if that isn't your name, the normal wet-dry filter does not have adequate
mechanical filtration. By adequate I mean cannister micron filters.
Why micron filters?
#1: Will trap particles down to 10-15 Microns (thousandths of an inch? I
might be wrong on this, let's just say its TINY compared to those WIDE, OPEN
pores on most filter sponges) In other words, if there's ANYTHING in the tank
that isn't alive or a rock, it will be removed from the system.
#2: Micron filters may be bleached and re-used several times, saving money.
#3: They just ROCK. Ok, maybe thats not a REAL reason. They are easy to
change.
Notes:
Running a micron filter on any tank will decrease dissolved organic and
nitrate buildup if propetly maintained. The filter should be removed and
bleached every 3 weeks even if it DOESN'T clog to prevent the filter from
becoming biologically active and breaking the waste down, defeating the
purpose.
Micron filters aren't really that expensive. A good hobbyist grade Micron
filter is availible almost everywhere. Its called a HOT Magnum or a Magnum
350. Just simply run the micron filter full time. This works great for tanks
up to 75 gallons or so.
Micron filters should be planned into ANY saltwater setup preferably, and will
pay for themselves in fish and salt. Honest. Our Raccon Butterfly hasn't
lived for 6 years by LUCK. Are your fish dying of old age? no? You need to
re-evaluate your filter system. Oh, BTW, 5 years doesn't classify as "old
age" unless we're talking silversides or minnows. Lionfish can live to be
over 20 years old in captivity, certain species we can only speculate as to
their life span under good conditions.
I've tried (badly) to make this a LITTLE fun, but its never very fun being a
heretic.
-b
Steve Lawrence
> > That's it. He maintains tanks in his store this way (fish only),
and they
> >look great, the fish look healthy, and the tanks are crystal clear. This
is
> >ALL the filter he uses on each tank. No powerheads, No UGF, no Protein
> >Skimmer, No canister/power filters.....NOTHING! Just the Amiracle
Wet/Dry
> >setup.
>
doing
> massive water changes when you aren't looking.
>
I too will be starting my only tank.
My filtration will consist of: A plenum setup on the bottom for
nitrite/nitrate biological filtration, An aqua clear for
mechanical/chemical filtration. I also plan on using a power head or two
for water movement, and a protien skimmer for dissolved organic waste.
I also plan on having a very reduced biolode, I am going to introduce a few
hermit crabs, an anemone, and a clown fish. Thats it.
If I am successfull with this, I will start another tank (larger) and add a
fluidized bed filter for extra bio filtration.
Matt Anderson
>I also plan on having a very reduced biolode, I am going to introduce a few
>hermit crabs, an anemone, and a clown fish. Thats it.
that's what we all say....in the beginning....
-matty
misc...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Eric Edelman wrote:
>
> I am considering purchasing my first marine setup. I currently maintain 8
> freshwater tanks with cichlids (Mostly S. American, but I do have a tank of
> Africans).
> Anyways, my local fish store, who I buy livestock and other items from
> recommends the following as a marine setup:
> 55 Gallon All-Glass with double tube hoods
> Cabinet Stand
> 75 lbs. Crushed Coral
> Amiracle Wet Dry Filter
>
> Eric Edelman
> edel...@interpath.com
The dealer is dodgy....remember he turns over his fish
and may only keep a fish/coral etc max 1 month.He supplies the
minimum possible to keep the livestock barely.... alive.If you
do the same the fish etc will be great for 3 months and slowly
die off.Clean tanks mean nothing.....
Supply twice that light for fish only or 5x that amount for
corals .....remember the light is the corals food...light is the
energy that keeps the entire marine ecosystem & the world alive.
Add an undergravel filter and a canister & you should be
okay.Protein skimmer too.UV etc not really necessary.Change 20%
water 2 weekly if keeping corals.
I live in Nz and I can use ......real sea water!!! ....
......everything loves real seawater ...ps if anybody
wants to argue that synthetic seawater is as good as real stuff
please send your arguments...
Al
I'm running the Amiracle Wet/dry on my 130 G. Have had it up and running
for almost two years. I use the trickle, and NOTHING else. Tank quality
is great. Crystal clear water, no ammonia, no nitrite and less than 5
PPM nitrates. I do not vacuum the gravel (anymore), do 20% water changes
once a month. I run a mid size Amiracle protein skimmer in the sump,
pumping 600 GPH thru two spray bars. I wouldn't change a thing. May not
work for everybody, but has and continues to for us.