I can't think of any more right now, as I'm off to play SRW4 some more, but
lemme know your thoughts. :)
-Nick
...Weaksauce Bishonen Hosehead
Hmm... I wonder if anyone ever uses the Guntank.
"N-Bomb" <nick...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rqljgt41fvmorgmvc...@4ax.com...
Bleh.
Kou has no redeeming qualities.
He was thrust into a situation he wasn't ready for, and rather than doing
the intelligent thing: turning it over to the professionals (he's a _Test_
pilot for chrissakes ... Monsha was an alcoholic but he did survive the OYW
as part of the Immortal 4th) he let personal vengence get in the way.
What happened as a result?
- GP-01 gets trashed.
- Large chunk of the Feddie fleet gets wiped out
- South Burning gets killed
- Lucette gets killed
- Captain Synapse gets executed
- Colony gets dropped on earth
- GP03D gets destroyed
- Titans rise to power as a result
He's useless. If you want examples of non-newtype pilots (especially ones
who graduated from military academy) there are much better examples:
- Shiro Amada ... one of the best non-newtype Feddie pilots, an excellent
tactician, and a successful leader. He had much greater success than Kou,
had none of Kou's annoying character traits, got it on with Aina, beat
Norris Packard in a fight (arguably the best Zeon ground combatant) and
generally succesfully completed all of his missions.
I also question your assertion that Gato is second only to Char. No way in
hell. There was actually a discussion on the GML about Gato's abilties a
while ago and his actual skill is pretty questionable. When you've got the
likes of the Black Trinary, Shin Matsanuga, Ranba Ral, Norris Packard and
countless others, Gato certainly isn't in the #2 spot.
Personally I can't decide who I hate more ... Kou Uraki or Quess Paraya ...
both were infantile, caused loss of life because of their own idiocy and
generally had no redeeming qualities. I'd have to pick Kou in the end,
though, since at least Quess died.
Amuro and Camille both did the "young boy thrust into war" bit much better
than Kou. Honestly, I think 0083 would have been cooler if it had focused
on OYW Feddie Aces (Monsha, Burning, etc) trying to prove that they've
still got what it takes. Those guys chasing Gato would have been a far more
compelling story than a wuss like Kou.
--
Nicholas "Echo|Fox" Paufler
http://www.outlawstar.org - The Unofficial Home of Outlaw Star
"Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups."
"Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil."
"Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!"
-Jeremy
"Nicholas "Echo|Fox" Paufler" <ech...@REMOVETHIS.wingzero.net> wrote in
message news:Xns90A8EE6F1FF9Be...@198.80.55.10...
Just wanted to point this out -
Test pilots, by nature, rank among the best in any military. You have to
have the skill and instinct to do the right thing when the craft you're
test-piloting goes berserk on you. By definition, test pilots are THE
professionals.
--
Sickle 584th
The JAE FAQ
http://www.evafaq.com
AIM: Sickle584th
ICQ: 2775295
Perhaps in reality, but not in Gundam. The two test pilots we've been
exposed to: Christine McKenzie in 0080 and Kou Uraki in 0083 were not the
best of the best. Christine was better than the average feddie pilot but
she only won because she had the Alex on her side. Kou Uraki, on the other
hand, was just an agressor pilot running around in captured Zaku's and
whatnot giving other pilots something to shoot at.
>Just wanted to point this out -
>
>Test pilots, by nature, rank among the best in any military. You have to
>have the skill and instinct to do the right thing when the craft you're
>test-piloting goes berserk on you. By definition, test pilots are THE
>professionals.
>
>--
>Sickle 584th
>
>The JAE FAQ
>http://www.evafaq.com
>
>AIM: Sickle584th
>ICQ: 2775295
>
>
>
--
Since the new movie Pearl Harbor is coming out, there's been alot of buzz
and such on the news about "meeting the Pearl Harbor heroes". I don't
really think they qualify for that title. I respect them for doing it. But
those actions, to me, are considered acts of patriotism, not heroism.
Any thoughts?
"Comic-Kaze" <comic...@home.com> wrote in message
news:uenO6.23647$Ub.3...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
>Bleh.
>Kou has no redeeming qualities.
Sure he does! One of them being a lack of the 'why me??' attitude alot of the
young newbie Gundam pilots have. He accepts his role without much whining. He
doesn't have much battle experience in the beginning, but he learns quite
quickly.
>He was thrust into a situation he wasn't ready for, and rather than doing
>the intelligent thing: turning it over to the professionals (he's a _Test_
>pilot for chrissakes ... Monsha was an alcoholic but he did survive the OYW
>as part of the Immortal 4th) he let personal vengence get in the way.
Well, we can't always be ready for the situations that we're put into. Was
Amuro? Or Camille? And who's to say that a 'professional' (note Sickle's comment
about test pilots) would've done better?
>What happened as a result?
>- GP-01 gets trashed.
What happened when Sayla stole the Gundam? :)
>- Large chunk of the Feddie fleet gets wiped out
Blame Kou for WW2 while you're at it :P
>- South Burning gets killed
That's just bum luck.
>- Lucette gets killed
Given... but Camille basically got his whole family killed.
>- Captain Synapse gets executed
Blame the Titans.
>- Colony gets dropped on earth
Blame the Titans.
>- GP03D gets destroyed
You know how they like to destroy all the mecha at the end of a series :)
>- Titans rise to power as a result
I doubt Kou not running off with the Albion would've affected events that much.
I mean, the fact that the entire events of that OVA were hushed up by the
Feddies pretty much shows how much of a scope it had.
>He's useless. If you want examples of non-newtype pilots (especially ones
>who graduated from military academy) there are much better examples:
>- Shiro Amada ... one of the best non-newtype Feddie pilots, an excellent
>tactician, and a successful leader. He had much greater success than Kou,
>had none of Kou's annoying character traits, got it on with Aina, beat
>Norris Packard in a fight (arguably the best Zeon ground combatant) and
>generally succesfully completed all of his missions.
Yeah Shiro was good... But he's ALSO a main character. :) Shiro could almost be
considered a veteran, no? And he has a whole platoon of experienced troops
backing him up. How much of that would he have been able to do with just Eledore
and Mikhael in the Hover-tank?
>I also question your assertion that Gato is second only to Char. No way in
>hell. There was actually a discussion on the GML about Gato's abilties a
>while ago and his actual skill is pretty questionable. When you've got the
>likes of the Black Trinary, Shin Matsanuga, Ranba Ral, Norris Packard and
>countless others, Gato certainly isn't in the #2 spot.
Yeah... I dunno about that. However, I'd say he's at least at a level with the
others (Char not included). You don't get a fearsome nickname without some
fearsome skill. ;)
>Personally I can't decide who I hate more ... Kou Uraki or Quess Paraya ...
>both were infantile, caused loss of life because of their own idiocy and
>generally had no redeeming qualities. I'd have to pick Kou in the end,
>though, since at least Quess died.
I haven't seen CCA yet, but I'd say that the fact that he lived speaks for
itself. Dying is the easy way out.
>Amuro and Camille both did the "young boy thrust into war" bit much better
>than Kou. Honestly, I think 0083 would have been cooler if it had focused
>on OYW Feddie Aces (Monsha, Burning, etc) trying to prove that they've
>still got what it takes. Those guys chasing Gato would have been a far more
>compelling story than a wuss like Kou.
I dunno... Someone like Burning would be too cautious. I'm fairly sure he'd have
let the Albion just go on it's way; after all, he wasn't really required to get
the suit back, it's just that Kou jumped in and became involved. Those older
guys chasing Gato wouldn't have retrieved the GP02 either. They'd be too
cautious. Well... maybe not Monsha. But he's Monsha. :)
-Nick
>Aziaphale: I'm trying to kill that bastard! ~TFG14VR
Test pilot is a misnomer for those two pilots. McKenize is a spect checker
for Alex, someone who go thru the check list and make sure that this mobile
suit actually work after assembled, and not trying to push the limits of the
mobile suits.
Kou is an opposing pilot. Someone who drives an enemy units for the actual
test pilot to shoot at. In the opening scene of 0083, South Burning is the
test pilot who is pushing the Powered GM while hunting down Zakus piloted by
Keith and Kou.
--
[ Rodrick Su [ ]
[ r...@tigana.com [ I might be crazier than you think. ]
>Test pilot is a misnomer for those two pilots. McKenize is a spect checker
>for Alex, someone who go thru the check list and make sure that this mobile
>suit actually work after assembled, and not trying to push the limits of the
>mobile suits.
I believe she was referred to as a "shoe fitter" in the 0080
mini novel that was written by Hiroyuki Yamaga.
>Kou is an opposing pilot. Someone who drives an enemy units for the actual
>test pilot to shoot at. In the opening scene of 0083, South Burning is the
>test pilot who is pushing the Powered GM while hunting down Zakus piloted by
>Keith and Kou.
First, Allen was piloting the Powered GM, not Burning.
Second, I got the impression that they were all test pilots, but that
the junior members (like Kou, Keith, and Karcs) played the aggressor
role while the veterans like Burning and Allen played with the REALLY
hot hardware. Since they were all excited about the prospect of
getting to test the GP01 and 02, my guess is that any of them could
have been chosen as the pilot. It was all up to Lt. Burning.
- Neil Nadelman
>"J-Ajushi" <jj...@u.washington.edu> wrote in
><9eco9u$12to$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>:
>
>Bleh.
>Kou has no redeeming qualities.
>He was thrust into a situation he wasn't ready for, and rather than doing
>the intelligent thing: turning it over to the professionals (he's a _Test_
>pilot for chrissakes ... Monsha was an alcoholic but he did survive the OYW
>as part of the Immortal 4th) he let personal vengence get in the way.
>What happened as a result?
>- GP-01 gets trashed.
>- Large chunk of the Feddie fleet gets wiped out
>- South Burning gets killed
>- Lucette gets killed
>- Captain Synapse gets executed
>- Colony gets dropped on earth
>- GP03D gets destroyed
>- Titans rise to power as a result
Excuse me, but:
- GP-01 getting trashed WAS due to Kou's recklessness, but don't
forget that Nina's idiocy was a strong motivating factor as well. He
probably would have taken out Burning's GM had Nina not gone and
pissed him off only moments before.
- 2/3 of the fleet getting trashed was a result of the Feds not taking
the Delaz Fleet threat seriously. Kou was just too far away to do
anything about Gato.
- Burning died because Cima shot his suit! Kou was busy fighting the
other guys when it happened. And Burning wasn't ready to fight
because he'd just gone out to get that briefcase with the Op. Stardust
mission briefing in it. How can you possibly blame his death on Kou?
- Lucette was baiting Kou to take her precious Gundam all through the
episode and then placed them both in danger by going against an
already unstable Fed officer. Why do you blame him for the fact that
she was shot by a nutcase?
- Synapse doomed himself the moment he decided to take effective
action against Op. Stardust. This whole thing was a giant power grab
by Bosque Ohm and Jamitov Hymann. He made his decision to get the
GP-03 and in doing so doomed himself.
- The colony was dropped because the Feds were so caught up in power
plays and infighting that they never mounted a serious challenge to
Op. Stardust.
- The GP-03 wasn't destroyed. The Orchis was trashed, but the suit
itself was fine. The fact that Bosque fired the Soar System 2 at him
was kind of a mitigating factor. Hell, why don't you go bad-mouthing
Amuro for getting the original Gundam trashed? Or Chris for getting
the Alex trashed? Or Emma for getting the Mk-II trashed? Or Judeau
for getting the Double Zeta trashed? Or Shiro for getting his RX-79
trashed? Compared to them, Kou was one of the few Gundam pilots who
actually brought an intact robot back at the end of the final battle.
- How is it Kou's fault that some corrupt Fed officers cooked up a
scheme to take advantage of the Delaz Fleet's ideals?
- And finally, how could you suggest giving the Gundam to the asshole
comedy-relief guy?! Christ, he tortures prisoners for kicks! Would
you really want to watch a show like that where HE'S the main pilot?
I don't see why Kou is badmouthed by so many people. He's a
rookie pilot who, over the course of about 8 WEEKS, becomes a
formidable Federation ace. The worst you can say about him is that
he's terribly naive at first, but he grows quickly into the job. He's
a low-level frontline officer who tries his best in an impossible
situation where everything has been stacked against him. Just the
fact that he got out of the whole mess alive and with all limbs and
sanity intact (Unlike certain other Gundam pilots I could name) makes
him a successful hero in my book.
You know, after rewatching 0083 for the DVD subtitling
project, I'm more convinced than ever that 0083 is a VOTOMS side story
that got turned into a Gundam story. All the classic "guy at the
bottom getting screwed by his own officers" points are in there.
- Neil Nadelman
4. He got Luck, Hot blood and Spirit, and being the best non-NT MS pilot in
SRW4. ;-)
However, he can't use Nu-Gundam or any funnel weapons. Also GP-03D is only
useful in space, and you got it so late the I-Field become ineffective.
Well, no Kou can't use any funnel-equiped unit, but he can still use the
S-Gundam and it's upgrade, the ExS-Gundam because it's fitted with incoms,
rather than funnels. The Dendrobium could be used on Earth when you equip a
Minovsky Craft on it. The GP-03 is one of the best robots in the game,
right next to Shin Getter and the Hyukabine, IMO.
A Virus on Usenet wrote:
> I think the word "hero" is too overrated now-a-days. Sure, he did take on a
> Gundam in a measly Zaku, but he failed at it. In my book, a hero can take
> on an impossible situation, and accomplish it. Shirow Amada, OTOH, goes out
> in a Ball, and is able to blow up a prototype Zaku.
Wouldn't that make Bernie all the more a hero? For someone to take on a
task that he knows is a lost cause takes a great deal of bravery, I'd think.
Alex
Luckily for us, Kou is probably on a farm somewhere in UC 88 by the time of
Gundam Sentinel (which he would probably wreck somehow).
And don't anybody disrespect Bernie Wiseman! ^_^
He is a true hero because he overcame his own cowardice to save the colony
from nuclear destruction by his own people. He risked his own life to take
out the newest Gundam with a only stock Zaku on the bare hope that he would
save the lives of Al, Christina (how ironic), and all people of the colony.
This is true bravery. He overcame his own inhibitions and moral obligations
to his own side (Zeons) in hope of a better future (theme of 0080). Bernie
was no ace-pilot. He was, if anything a poor pilot. He was a nice guy put
into a tragic situation and made the best of it. He didn't allow his own
fears and misgivings to cloud his judgement in the end much like all other
Gundam pilots do (Kou, Amuro, etc... how many times have these guys ran
away, cried, or chickened out?).
Yes it is true that Bernie contemplated escape at first, but he quickly
changed his mind because he realized he was the only hope for the thousands
of people in the colony. Would Kou or Amuro have done this on one of their
first missions? If they were sent to a Zeon colony and discovered the
federation were going to nuke it, would they dare fight the Kampher with
only a damaged GM to save Zeon citizens? No. Take away their super-Gundams
and they are nothing. Take away their moral support and all their friends
who cheer them on and they are nothing. Bernie lost all his comrades in
battle, the only friend he had was a small child and a neighbor who was his
destined enemy.
Virus, you say that "Sure, he did take on a Gundam in a measly Zaku, but he
failed at it. ", well Bernie succeded. The Alex was pretty much destroyed
and he had accomplished his mission in his mind. He even left the tape as a
contingency.
Virus, I think your impression of what a hero is has been tainted by
society. Heroes are not "supermen" who can accomplish everything they do.
You do not have to be successful to be a hero. What do you call all those
people who died in previous wars? Cowards?
-Jeremy
>
> Wouldn't that make Bernie all the more a hero? For someone to take on a
> task that he knows is a lost cause takes a great deal of bravery, I'd
> think.
>
> Alex
>
*nod*
I agree with that.
To add on the Kou thing, however.
Well. I actually don't hate Kou .... and for every shortcoming he has, I
blame it on Nina. And I feel great about it. =}
Though, when considering in SRW games, Whoa! I don't Like Kou in those
games! (not in F and alpha anyway!) Kou takes forever to get 2
moves/round (if that ever happen!) and GP-03, you really get it too late
in the game.. it is not maenuvarable (spelling?) and its weapons are not
as powerful as I would like it to be.... so.. actually, I seldom use Kou
after a while......
-Shinken
(actually, Amuro and Kamiyu have not been used these days, either, can
you believe it?)
--
"Change R-1, switch OON!!"
--Super Robot Wars alpha
"stock Zaku"??? The Zaku II FZ is one of the first Gundam
continuity busters! It has a downright ugly design (tangential to my
actual point) and high-powered specs: it's thruster numbers comparable to
the original Gundam. Sure, it's not up to the NT-1, but it's hardly at the
level of the Zaku II.
(going by the stats on the Mecha Domain, http://mechadomain.gundam.com/ )
Still, all things considered, I don't mind Bernie. It's Al who
annoys me to death.
--
So if you can work hard to teach each unforgiving minute, the Moral
ABC that unites all mankind free, come hell, hate, ban, you'll enjoy
God's spaceship Earth and do great work within it. And which is more
my son, you'll be a man! A MAN! -Dr Bronner
Well, not necessarily cowards. But not necessarily heroes either. Loyal to
their country, maybe. I consider individuals heroes, like Martin Luther King
Jr., Mahattma (sp.?) Ghandi, etc. But see, you always here about people in
the Holocaust, and someone calls them heroes. Why are they heroes? They
haven't done anything for the benefit of mankind.
Maybe I'm thinking too much in terms of The Odessey for a defination of a
'hero'. After I thought about it, Bernie isn't that bad. He did *try* to
save the colony, so I now consider Bernard Wiseman a hero.
Just my opinions.
Hehe, yeah I suppose that Hero stems from the classic Greek hero like Jason,
Hercules, etc...
I just think Bernie was brave. He knew he had little chance but he had to
try.
-Jeremy
It is still useless since no matter how you modify it it's rating is still D in
air and D on the ground. At that rating you can only cause 30% of the maximum
damage of your weapons. Kou is well suited for the ExS and ZZ in MS mode.
> The GP-03 is one of the best robots in the game,
>right next to Shin Getter and the Hyukabine, IMO.
Even in space it does not rank that high. It got speed and HP, but it's weapons
are very weak without modification.
1. He's not a Feddie pilot. He's on the losing side of the war.
2. He's not a newtype or an ace pilot. He's just an average rookie.
3. Bernie loses all his comrades in the end (except Al) and has to carry out
the doomed operation himself.
4. Bernie doesn't get the girl. In fact, he's killed by the girl he wants.
5. No happy ending for Bernie.
Unlike other pilots, you can't get pissed off at Bernie. When Amuro didn't
wanna fight because he couldn't sleep or whatever, you can't help but get
pissed of at this moaner. Bernie, on the hand, was tempted to leave the
colony but he cared about Al and Chris so much that he decided against it.
Usually for the other pilots, every once in a while you get pissed off at
them. With Bernie, there's nothing but sympathy.
Too bad he sucks in SRW4.
"Comic-Kaze" <comic...@home.com> wrote in message
news:uenO6.23647$Ub.3...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
But I would still consider Kou Uraki a Hero, He has his short comings don't
we all? He was up against Gato someone who was clearly a better pilot that
him.
"Comic-Kaze" <comic...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FXLO6.28204$Ub.3...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
[Snip. ARR UMM NUMM NUMM!]
> Amuro and Camille both did the "young boy thrust into war" bit much better
> than Kou. Honestly, I think 0083 would have been cooler if it had focused
> on OYW Feddie Aces (Monsha, Burning, etc) trying to prove that they've
> still got what it takes. Those guys chasing Gato would have been a far
more
> compelling story than a wuss like Kou.
>
On that subject, I agree! It would have been more interesting to see
Monsha, Burning, and the other veterans using prototypes than Kou. For that
matter, what if they learned about the corruption within the Federation
(Jamitoff and Basque Ohm's attempt to rise to power), fight back, and
ultimately fail to stop the Titans from coming forth? It would be massively
cliche, but hey, so was Kou. Except Kou lacked the ability to feel for,
unlike Amuro and Camille, who had reasons to be distraught...
--Maikeru
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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I put Sleggar in GP-03, just because I felt like it. He has the Guts
ability, so putting him in a Mobile Armor with lots of HP helps him from
getting offed anyway once he reaches the HP level for Guts to activate,
rather than the rather weak Core Booster's around-2000HP or so-- One hit can
take it out, anyway...
More blasphemy! ^_^
"Maikeru" <mai...@awesomenet.net> wrote in message
news:3b1405ba_1@newsfeeds...