More off-topic Lantz talk
gregory duffell
last night.
"Rain Rain Go Away" was a Lantz "Beary Family" cartoon made in Lantz' last
year of production (1972). Astoundingly, even though Paul Frees announces
the cartoon as "the Beary Family" ("Beary" pronounced "bare-ee"), Frees,
who does the paternal Beary, pronounces his own name as "beer-ee"...in the
midst of this cartoon!
From evidence last night, in which we got another Chilly Willy animated by
Virgil Ross (ex-Warner animator so this post is slightly "on-topic"), the
cartoons are animated by two animators and Joe Voght and Tom Byrne were
the assistants. In the Chilly cartoon, Virgil animated the first half..and
Al Coe animated the second half. Volus Jones (ex-Disney) and Al Coe shared
duties on the Beary Family cartoon. Voght and Byrne assisted on that one
too.
Volus Jones, who animated the first half of the Beary Family cartoon, did
some fairly good animation. That's the irony of things at Lantz's....the
animation in the last year of the cartoons is strikingly better than
anything done in the previous decade...though that's not saying much.
STill, I"m kind of fascinated to see some of these, even if they are a
guilty pleasure.
Bye for now
greg D.
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Jim Bennie
duffell) wrote:
> From evidence last night, in which we got another Chilly Willy animated by
> Virgil Ross (ex-Warner animator so this post is slightly "on-topic"), the
> cartoons are animated by two animators and Joe Voght and Tom Byrne were
> the assistants. In the Chilly cartoon, Virgil animated the first half..and
> Al Coe animated the second half. Volus Jones (ex-Disney) and Al Coe shared
> duties on the Beary Family cartoon. Voght and Byrne assisted on that one
> too.
Judging from what I can tell, Greg, Virgil Ross replaced Les Kline
somewhere during the 1971 release season. From about 1964, Lantz
began giving only two animation credits. Les Kline and Al Coe got them
exclusively from sometime in 1966 onward (after Art Davis left; I guess
Artie went back to DePatie-Freleng). In '71, he decided to give Bryne
and Voght credit as well .. then Kline disappeared, Virgil Ross appeared
in his place for a few cartoons, then his name was replaced by Volus Jones
until Lantz closed down.
> That's the irony of things at Lantz's....the
> animation in the last year of the cartoons is strikingly better than
> anything done in the previous decade...though that's not saying much.
Alas, one watches these late '60s/'70s cartoons with anticipation ..
hoping that something funny, or at least something new, is going to
happen. It never does. The Bearys are pathetically unfunny. Chilly
Willy needed a LOT of effort to be funny and didn't get it. Woody could
have been funny, and got emasculated instead. Poor Virgil Ross or
Cal Howard never had a chance saving these from Lantz's limited
re$ource$ .. or the direction of Paul J. Son-in-Law.
Mind you, it could have been worse. At least the Daffy/Speedy combo
wasn't in them. :)
Jim
gregory duffell
: have been funny, and got emasculated instead. Poor Virgil Ross or
: re$ource$ .. or the direction of Paul J. Son-in-Law.
: Mind you, it could have been worse. At least the Daffy/Speedy combo
: wasn't in them. :)
Maybe the most damning thing that one could say about the Lantz cartoons
of this era is that I'd rather be watching "Muchos Locos", the absolute
rock bottom Speedy and Daffy.
Oh....Jim...what did you think of "Red Riding Hoodlum" the other night? I
thought there were a few laughs in that one and the poor animation kind of
helped to make the gags funnier sometimes. The script on that one was by
Dick Kinney and Milt Schaeffer.
As for Les Kline...it's very possible some of the animators were of
retirement age around 1971. Virgil was about 60 years old himself at that
time. Ken Harris officially retired in 1966, as did A. Kendall O'Connor,
the Australian design genius at Disney for many years. Harris didn't stay
retired long, ending up in England 4 or 5 months of the year with Richard
Williams from 1967 to 1977 or so. O'Connor kept his hand in it, even being
a design consultant on "Family Dog" and "Brave Little Toaster"!
Both Harris and O'Connor turned 65 in 1966 to the best of my figuring.
Contrast this to Chuck Jones, who was only 50 when he left Warner
Brothers in 1962.
Les Kline is credited on early Lantz cartoons, even directed a few,
according to Of Mice and Magic.
Well, these Lantz cartoons DO give us something to talk about now that
there's not a single decent Bugs Bunny cartoon on display here in Canada.
For you U.S. readers...that's why Jim and I are obsessing about Lantz
these days.
Greg D.
ese from Lantz's limited
: re$ource$ .. or the direction of Paul J. Son-in-Law.
: Mind you, it could have been worse. At least the Daffy/Speedy combo
: wasn't in them. :)
: Jim
bubba
gregory duffell <ligh...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:8bRJ3.27060$fp1.2...@quark.idirect.com...
> Jim Bennie (jgbe...@felix.vcn.bc.ca) wrote:
> Maybe the most damning thing that one could say about the Lantz cartoons
> of this era is that I'd rather be watching "Muchos Locos", the absolute
> rock bottom Speedy and Daffy.
I beg to differ...in spite of "Muchos Locos" using so much recycled
footage, it actually contained some splinters of laughter. I think a better
example of Daffy/Speedy rock bottom is "Speedy Ghost To Town." Now THERE'S
a grade-A example of crap.
"would you like to shoot him now, or wait till he gets home?"
bu...@cinci.rr.com
WOTPPAPER
>footage, it actually contained some splinters of laughter. I think a better
>example of Daffy/Speedy rock bottom is "Speedy Ghost To Town." Now THERE'S
>a grade-A example of crap.
>
the satisfaction of seeing Daffy bash Speedy at the end of the cartoon --
something most viewers probably would like to do with the Warner's exec (J.L.?)
who commissioned the re-opening of the studio in 1966 and decided to imitate
the Hanna-Barbera TV product (which by 1966 was on its downhill slide)
S.J.Carras
>From: wotp...@aol.com (WOTPPAPER)
>Date: Sun, 03 October 1999 11:06 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19991003230633...@ng-fi1.aol.com>
BTW "Muchos Locus"(Directed by Robert McKimson, Produced by David H.DePatie and
Friz Freleng), had music not by William Lava, then music director but Herman
Stein.
20s-to-50...@onelist.com/
buffy...@eskimo.com
For more visit www.onelist.com
[Hyperlink eliminated for the hyperlink-wise challenged.
Anyone using my name on an e-mailing list will be reported.
Jim Bennie
duffell) wrote:
> Jim Bennie (jgbe...@felix.vcn.bc.ca) wrote:
> : Mind you, it could have been worse. At least the Daffy/Speedy combo
> : wasn't in them. :)
> Maybe the most damning thing that one could say about the Lantz cartoons
> of this era is that I'd rather be watching "Muchos Locos", the absolute
> rock bottom Speedy and Daffy.
Is that the one with Daffy as Witch Hazel or vice versa? That strikes
as one of the most pointless cartoons ever made. I don't think I've
been able to sit through the whole thing once. Eeeeasy Stomach!
> Oh....Jim...what did you think of "Red Riding Hoodlum" the other night?
My shift was moved to afternoons and evenings in early September, so
I haven't seen any of them since then. I refuse to have a TV at home.
> the poor animation kind of
> helped to make the gags funnier sometimes. The script on that one was by
> Dick Kinney and Milt Schaeffer.
Only two animators are creditted .. Les Kline and (ex Warners) Bob
Bentley. Kline had fairly recently returned to the studio about that
time, it seems, after (ex Warners) Herman Cohen left for MGM and
(ex Warners) Gil Turner left for UPA. Don Patterson stopped getting
creditted for about 18 months; perhaps he worked on the TV show then.
> Well, these Lantz cartoons DO give us something to talk about now that
> there's not a single decent Bugs Bunny cartoon on display here in Canada.
> For you U.S. readers...that's why Jim and I are obsessing about Lantz
> these days.
I particularly enjoy some of the 1940s cartoons, and a few into the
mid '50s .. then things kinda petered out.. and dropped noticeably
about 1960. And it's always interesting seeing names familiar from
other studios on their releases. But they sure don't compare with
what better talent and higher budgets and better story work wrought
at Warners in the same period.
Jim
Garrison Hilliard
I'm sorry I'm late in the thread, guys (I've been travelling); did I miss
any really good Paul J. Smith bashing? :-)
>> Well, these Lantz cartoons DO give us something to talk about now that
>> there's not a single decent Bugs Bunny cartoon on display here in
Canada.
>> For you U.S. readers...that's why Jim and I are obsessing about Lantz
>> these days.
>I particularly enjoy some of the 1940s cartoons, and a few into the
>mid '50s .. then things kinda petered out.. and dropped noticeably
>about 1960. And it's always interesting seeing names familiar from
>other studios on their releases. But they sure don't compare with
>what better talent and higher budgets and better story work wrought
>at Warners in the same period.
In the late 'thirties until about 1955, Lantz was at the top of his form,
and some of his work was VERY good indeed, but that drop-off decline can
be traced as beginning in 1953, the same year Paul J. Smith was promoted
to director... hmmm, I wonder if it could be connected?
>(after Art Davis left; I guess Artie went back to DePatie-Freleng).
Well, Art went first to Hanna-Barbera, and you can find his name
plastered on those "gang credits" at the end of Flintstones episodes, then
he went back to work with his buddy Friz at D-F, where he continued
working up into his late seventies.
p.s. Don't you ever wish while watching "Starman" that the alien would
just turn around and say to one of the two F.B.I. agents chasing him "Hey,
your dad couldn't make a decent cartoon if the fate of the planet depended
on it!".
Jim Bennie
Hilliard) wrote:
> I'm sorry I'm late in the thread, guys (I've been travelling); did I miss
> any really good Paul J. Smith bashing? :-)
Well, I tried to fit some in .. but we ended up talking about
Virgil Ross. ;)
Can you imagine? After time under, I'd presume, Bill Nolan,
first Virgil works with Avery, then with Clampett, then with
Freleng, then with .. Paul J. Smith. (puts paper bag over head)
Oh, the shame of it!
How's that, G?
> >(after Art Davis left; I guess Artie went back to DePatie-Freleng).
> Well, Art went first to Hanna-Barbera, and you can find his name
> plastered on those "gang credits" at the end of Flintstones episodes,
Gee, that's right, too. Forgot all about that. Didn't he get a
supervisory credit of some kind? It's been awhile since I've seen
them (no TV, you know).
> p.s. Don't you ever wish while watching "Starman" that the alien would
> just turn around and say to one of the two F.B.I. agents chasing him "Hey,
> your dad couldn't make a decent cartoon if the fate of the planet depended
> on it!".
Then he'd say "What about Inspector Willoughby?" And the alien would
say "My point exactly". Then the director would say "Cut!"
Jim
PS.. I guess you've noticed the VCN news server is called Sylvester.
gregory duffell
: >(after Art Davis left; I guess Artie went back to DePatie-Freleng).
: Well, Art went first to Hanna-Barbera, and you can find his name
: plastered on those "gang credits" at the end of Flintstones episodes, then
: he went back to work with his buddy Friz at D-F, where he continued
: working up into his late seventies.
Interesting that...I wonder if ARt left right after "Quackodile Tears"?
Even Friz, Hawley and John Dunn ended up at Hanna Barbera for a little
while (on Hey there it's Yogi Bear). There's a book about Hanna Barbera
art (it's a paperback...kind of rare) and one Magilla Gorilla layout is
definitely by Hawley Pratt.
Greg D.
h
: >what better talent and higher budgets and better story work wrought
: >at Warners in the same period.
: In the late 'thirties until about 1955, Lantz was at the top of his form,
: and some of his work was VERY good indeed, but that drop-off decline can
: be traced as beginning in 1953, the same year Paul J. Smith was promoted
: to director... hmmm, I wonder if it could be connected?
: >(after Art Davis left; I guess Artie went back to DePatie-Freleng).
: Well, Art went first to Hanna-Barbera, and you can find his name
: plastered on those "gang credits" at the end of Flintstones episodes, then
: he went back to work with his buddy Friz at D-F, where he continued
: working up into his late seventies.
: p.s. Don't you ever wish while watching "Starman" that the alien would
: just turn around and say to one of the two F.B.I. agents chasing him "Hey,
: your dad couldn't make a decent cartoon if the fate of the planet depended
: on it!".
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Garrison Hilliard
On 6 Oct 1999, Jim Bennie wrote:
> > >(after Art Davis left; I guess Artie went back to DePatie-Freleng).
>
> > Well, Art went first to Hanna-Barbera, and you can find his name
> > plastered on those "gang credits" at the end of Flintstones episodes,
>
> Gee, that's right, too. Forgot all about that. Didn't he get a
> supervisory credit of some kind? It's been awhile since I've seen
> them (no TV, you know).
A few years back, Art's son-in-law, a surgeon whose name I forget
(DAMMIT!), faxed me a birthday card Art had made for his grandkids which
was decorated the Flintstones.... I wish I still had that.
Jim Bennie
<garr...@efn.org> wrote:
> A few years back, Art's son-in-law, a surgeon whose name I forget
> (DAMMIT!), faxed me a birthday card Art had made for his grandkids which
> was decorated the Flintstones.... I wish I still had that.
Hmm. It wasn't a fellow named Steve Marshall was it? I still have
an e-mail from him from 1995.
Jim
Garrison Hilliard
I believe that's the guy.
Garrison Hilliard
Make that I'm sure that's the guy!
Subject: Art Davis
Date: 1996/01/03
Author: medd...@ixnetcom.com <[44]medd...@ix.netcom.com>
[45]Posting History [post_r_x.gif]
joe...@netvoyage.net
I'm sorry but I can't remember if I answered your letter so I'll
answer you again. Art said that although he felt he could go elsewhere
after WB disbanded his unit, he chose to stay to continue working with
his friend, 'Friz'. I see Art weekly. I don't think it will be
possible for me to get him on-line in real time, but he seems to enjoy
answering these questions. So, if you can wait for an answer, just
e-mail me and I'll ask him your questions.
Steve Marshall
Jim Bennie
wrote:
> >>In <Pine.GSU.4.05.99100...@garcia.efn.org>, Garrison
> Hilliard
> >><garr...@efn.org> wrote:
> >>> A few years back, Art's son-in-law, a surgeon whose name I forget
> >>> (DAMMIT!), faxed me a birthday card Art had made for his grandkids which
> >>> was decorated the Flintstones.... I wish I still had that.
> >>
> >>Hmm. It wasn't a fellow named Steve Marshall was it? I still have
> >>an e-mail from him from 1995.
> >
> >I believe that's the guy.
> Make that I'm sure that's the guy!
All hail Dejanews!
You know, Garrison, I was really disappointed in the Davis article
in 'Animato!' It was pretty perfunctory, especially considering the
man's career. I'm sure he has loads of stories and I hate the idea
of them being lost to time.
Jim
Garrison L. Hilliard
>You know, Garrison, I was really disappointed in the Davis article
>in 'Animato!' It was pretty perfunctory, especially considering the
>man's career. I'm sure he has loads of stories and I hate the idea
>of them being lost to time.
On 8 Oct 1999 07:35:09 -0700, in alt.animation.warner-bros you wrote:
>You know, Garrison, I was really disappointed in the Davis article
>in 'Animato!' It was pretty perfunctory, especially considering the
>man's career. I'm sure he has loads of stories and I hate the idea
>of them being lost to time.
Art is one of my faves, and deserves a lot more attention than what he gets
for his work at Warner Brothers (hey, it wasn't his fault the suits
(probably Selzer) yanked his film unit). He is the absolute best at
handling Daffy, I think, and his work as an animator is nothing short of
amazing... it's a pity so few people have taken notice of him.
p.s. For all of those keeping score, Vladimir "Bill" Tytla is my vote for
bestest animator of them all, but he was a weak director (being at Famous
didn't help). Art Davis is a close runner-up on the animation, and was a
FAR better director!
p.p.s. Myron Waldeman told me once that Bill Tytla really felt rather
unhappy while at Paramount/Famous, and also thought the studio heads didn't
care about any of their animation product.
gregory duffell
: p.s. For all of those keeping score, Vladimir "Bill" Tytla is my vote
for : bestest animator of them all, but he was a weak director (being at
Famous : didn't help). Art Davis is a close runner-up on the animation,
and was a : FAR better director!
Care to tell us about some of your favourite bits of Art Davis animation
sometime?
Greg D.
9 -0700, in alt.animation.warner-bros you wrote:
: >You know, Garrison, I was really disappointed in the Davis article
: >in 'Animato!' It was pretty perfunctory, especially considering the
: >man's career. I'm sure he has loads of stories and I hate the idea
: >of them being lost to time.
: Art is one of my faves, and deserves a lot more attention than what he gets
: for his work at Warner Brothers (hey, it wasn't his fault the suits
: (probably Selzer) yanked his film unit). He is the absolute best at
: handling Daffy, I think, and his work as an animator is nothing short of
: amazing... it's a pity so few people have taken notice of him.
: p.s. For all of those keeping score, Vladimir "Bill" Tytla is my vote for
: bestest animator of them all, but he was a weak director (being at Famous
: didn't help). Art Davis is a close runner-up on the animation, and was a
: FAR better director!
: p.p.s. Myron Waldeman told me once that Bill Tytla really felt rather
: unhappy while at Paramount/Famous, and also thought the studio heads didn't
: care about any of their animation product.
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Stephen W. Worth
<garr...@efn.org> wrote:
> p.p.s. Myron Waldeman told me once that Bill Tytla really felt rather
> unhappy while at Paramount/Famous, and also thought the studio heads didn't
> care about any of their animation product.
From what I've heard, Tytla had to spend so much time tutoring
artists who were stuck in a rut, and correcting animation that
the animators were incapable of doing the way he wanted it, he
had no time to direct. I think it was more than just the execs.
See ya
Steve
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WOTPPAPER
Tytla directed, Service with a Guile, which had Jim Tyer as head animator. Two
diametrically opposite animation styles (and Tyer left the studio to join
Terrytoons a short time later, which may or may not be a coincidence)
Garrison Hilliard
>Care to tell us about some of your favourite bits of Art Davis animation
>sometime?
Well, considering his great work with the final Clampett
WB unit (where Davis's rounded, squashible style fit right in), his own
unit, and a large portion of Freleng's unit, you sure aren't pinning
things down, are you? I think I'm just going to beg off of the question,
as whatever I say will start a disagreement, and pass it back to you...
what's you're fave Davis-animated bit?
Mark LoPresti
I guess I missed this part of Arthur Davis' career. Please expand on your
previous post.
Mark LoPresti, Buffalo NY
________________________________________________
"You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break,
and never smarten-up a chump." - W.C. Fields
WOTPPAPER
Famous/Paramount.
But just for the record, my favorite Davis animation is Sylvester and the
vacuum cleaner from "Catch as Cats Can."
Jim Bennie
duffell) wrote:
> Sorry, I thought you had by refering to his "animation". I tend to
> consider that seperate from his "direction". I guess that's from my own
> personal bias.
Greg, what about the colour remake of 'Wackyland'? Did Davis really
animate any of that, or is that one of those answers lost in the mists
of time?
Jim
gregory duffell
: I was posting on the side thread about Bill Tytla and his problems at
: Famous/Paramount.
: But just for the record, my favorite Davis animation is Sylvester and the
: vacuum cleaner from "Catch as Cats Can."
Didn't Davis direct that? I'll have to look and see who the animator was
on that.
Greg
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gregory duffell
: Greg D. wrote:
: >Care to tell us about some of your favourite bits of Art Davis animation
: >sometime?
: Well, considering his great work with the final Clampett
: WB unit (where Davis's rounded, squashible style fit right in), his own
: unit, and a large portion of Freleng's unit, you sure aren't pinning
: things down, are you?
Sorry, I thought you had by refering to his "animation". I tend to
consider that seperate from his "direction". I guess that's from my own
personal bias.
I think I'm just going to beg off of the question,
: as whatever I say will start a disagreement, and pass it back to you...
: what's you're fave Davis-animated bit?
Hmmmmm.....what Clampett cartoon did he animate on? I don't recall one.
Didn't Davis go into Tashlin's unit? Then he's credited on the early
Mckimson directed cartoons, like "Acrobatty Bunny".
I think my favourite Davis scene of animation is the Sylvester building
the bridge of boards in "Tree Cornered Tweety". It's a great gag, pulled
off by exquisite timing and perfect animation and expressions.
Hmmm...just thought of another. Sylvester's hand stuck (by the heat) to a
frying pan and he has to search for a spatula to pry it off in "Snow
Business". I LOVE that piece.
I guess the content has a lot to do with the memorability, but there is
definitely execution excellence to both of the above scenes.
I also like his animation in the two "Chester and Spike" cartoons, but ALL
the animation is fantastic in those outings. If I remember correctly he
did the animation of Chester doing the sparring outside of the fence as
Spike is getting pummelled in "Tree for Two"...."That's my Spiiiiike?????"
Bye now
Greg D.
WOTPPAPER
Moving down one level, may favorite scene of his as an animator was the attack
by baby Butch on Porky in "Brother Brat."
gregory duffell
: Would have been interesting to see the collision on the first Popeye cartoon
: Tytla directed, Service with a Guile, which had Jim Tyer as head animator. Two
: diametrically opposite animation styles (and Tyer left the studio to join
: Terrytoons a short time later, which may or may not be a coincidence)
When you mention Tytla/Tyer and "collision" in the same sentence, all I
can think of is Tyer's experimentation with having characters actually
disappearing for a frame or two after they've been punched or otherwise
struck with an object. I'd have liked to have heard Tytla's comments about
THAT!!!
By the way...that Popeye "Rocket to Mars" cartoon is just downright
spooky (directed by Tytla, with Tyer animation in it)
Greg Duffell
WOTPPAPER
>can think of is Tyer's experimentation with having characters actually
>disappearing for a frame or two after they've been punched or otherwise
>struck with an object. I'd have liked to have heard Tytla's comments about
>THAT!!!
>
characters in action sequences (Tyer had the most energetic action animation at
famous, but sometimes Bluto would end up squashed down to a square by the time
it was all over.
>By the way...that Popeye "Rocket to Mars" cartoon is just downright
>spooky (directed by Tytla, with Tyer animation in it)
>
That's also the cartoon in which Tytla gave Olive a new hairdo that lasted
through the end of the series in 1957.
He also did some weird directorial stuff in the Little Lulu series, though
that's never seen on TV anymore -- lots of dream sequences which are well done,
but you could tell by the time he left the studio in 1950, he'd lost his
enthusiasm for them, since that seemed to be the only type of plot ever used on
the new Little Audrey series.
>Greg Duffell
gregory duffell
: In <SxbM3.72324$fp1.5...@quark.idirect.com>, ligh...@idirect.com (gregory
: duffell) wrote:
: > Sorry, I thought you had by refering to his "animation". I tend to
: > consider that seperate from his "direction". I guess that's from my own
: > personal bias.
: Greg, what about the colour remake of 'Wackyland'? Did Davis really
: animate any of that, or is that one of those answers lost in the mists
: of time?
Maybe a year ago, I started to work on an examination of the original
"Porky in Wackyland" and the "Dough for the Do-do" as far as assigning
scenes to the individual animators. The original requires me to do a LOT
of research. The remake is also hard to pin down as to who did what but I
don't recall any Davis stuff in that.
Here's my best guess: Friz didn't want to direct or was working on
something else (perhaps the two live segments in the live action movies?)
and Davis was handed some members of Freleng's crew
(animators Chiniquy and Perez, and MAYBE Champin, background artist Paul
Julian and perhaps layout artist Hawley Pratt) and told to direct this
cartoon. I guess it coincided with Davis' unit being disbanded and his
transition into Freleng's unit as an animator.
Around this time (1949), Gerry Chiniquy left the studio to go into another
line of work entirely. There's also confusion about Manny Perez' status.
Virgil Ross told me that Perez was "Friz's whipping boy". If credits tell
any story, Friz dumped Manny to take on Art Davis only to take Perez back
when Chiniquy left. It's acknowledged that Gerry Chiniquy was favoured
highly by Friz above the other animators in his unit.
Maybe on some cold winter day when I'm housebound, I'll have a look at
"Dough for the Do Do" and try to do a breakdown of that cartoon.
Greg D.
Jim Bennie
duffell) wrote:
> Jim Bennie (jgbe...@felix.vcn.bc.ca) wrote:
> : Greg, what about the colour remake of 'Wackyland'? Did Davis really
> : animate any of that, or is that one of those answers lost in the mists
> : of time?
> Maybe a year ago, I started to work on an examination of the original
> "Porky in Wackyland" and the "Dough for the Do-do" as far as assigning
> scenes to the individual animators. The original requires me to do a LOT
> of research. The remake is also hard to pin down as to who did what but I
> don't recall any Davis stuff in that.
OK. I appreciate all the work that went into those breakdowns, btw,
and look forward to when you have time to go do them again.
> There's also confusion about Manny Perez' status.
> Virgil Ross told me that Perez was "Friz's whipping boy".
Why was this?
> If credits tell
> any story, Friz dumped Manny to take on Art Davis only to take Perez back
> when Chiniquy left. It's acknowledged that Gerry Chiniquy was favoured
> highly by Friz above the other animators in his unit.
This piqued my curiosity so I went through the credits. It seems Manny's
name doesn't appear on about 16 months of releases (Pete Burness was
in Friz's unit briefly during this time), then he worked on a McKimson
cartoon before replacing Chiniquy. I wonder where he went.
I guess it was part of the fallout from the Davis unit disbanding. Btw,
Davis had a layout guy named Don Smith. I've only seen his name in
connection with Davis's cartoons. Do you know anything about him?
I'm presuming he and Don Williams and Basil Davidovich got laid off.
Jim
WOTPPAPER
but I don't know if his voyage there was a direct trip from Warner's.
gregory duffell
: > There's also confusion about Manny Perez' status.
: > Virgil Ross told me that Perez was "Friz's whipping boy".
: Why was this?
It's hard to say. It's well known that Friz was quite cantankerous. Virgil
felt that Friz belittled Manny, then when Manny left Virgil felt that HE
became the target of Friz' wrath. The way Virgil told it, it was that
everyone's work was compared to Chiniquy's, with Gerry's work always
deemed to be more appropriate and better than everyone else's.
I met Manny Perez in 1975 at San Rio Productions during the production of
a feature film (I've forgotten the title now) that was like a rock music
Fantasia.
I was quite thrilled, of course, to meet Mr. Perez (didn't know he'd be
there) and started to ask him questions about his work. At that time, I
wasn't clear which animator did what, though I could see the various
styles while watching the cartoons. Manny was very elusive about
identifying any of his work for me. At the mention of Friz' name (Manny is
credited on cartoons in the late '30's to the middle '70's related to
Friz) he said these words, with a tense smile, that I'll never forget:
"You know, I worked so long for him....well...I got to HATE that little
guy..."
: > If credits tell
: > any story, Friz dumped Manny to take on Art Davis only to take Perez back
: > when Chiniquy left. It's acknowledged that Gerry Chiniquy was favoured
: > highly by Friz above the other animators in his unit.
: This piqued my curiosity so I went through the credits. It seems Manny's
: name doesn't appear on about 16 months of releases (Pete Burness was
: in Friz's unit briefly during this time), then he worked on a McKimson
: cartoon before replacing Chiniquy. I wonder where he went.
Ya...I remember Manny's name on "Pop 'IM Pop" and "Dog Collared" if memory
serves me correctly. I don't know where Manny went...if he went anywhere.
I learned from talking with Bob Givens that some top people could be at
the studio and not get any screen credit. It's also possible that Manny
might have been demoted for a time during all the confusion that went on
in the late '40's. It was a very bad time in Hollywood in the cartoon
business. Art Babbitt really identified this time as being particularly
bad for employment in discussions I had with him.
: I guess it was part of the fallout from the Davis unit disbanding. Btw,
: Davis had a layout guy named Don Smith. I've only seen his name in
: connection with Davis's cartoons. Do you know anything about him?
: I'm presuming he and Don Williams and Basil Davidovich got laid off.
Don't know what happened to Don Smith. Yes..I think Williams and
Davidovich were dismissed with Lloyd Turner and Bill Scott. Actually...I
think Bill got fired before Lloyd. As Bill told it, he thought that he and
Lloyd were writing partners. What the management didn't tell them was that
they were actually in competition for one position, of which Turner was
the "winner".
Bye for now
Greg
gregory duffell
: Basil Davidovich's name turns up on some Disney animated shorts in the 1950s,
: but I don't know if his voyage there was a direct trip from Warner's.
I think Davidovich was a Layout artist at Disney's. There's even a picture
of him in the Bob Thomas book "The ARt of Animation", published in 1958.
Dick Thomas, the background artist, also went to Disney's at this time to
work on the same film.
It would seem that Disney needed vast numbers of artists to complete
"Sleeping Beauty".
Greg
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Garrison Hilliard
>a feature film (I've forgotten the title now) that was like a rock music
>Fantasia.
Bakshi's "American Pop", perhaps?
>: This piqued my curiosity so I went through the credits. It seems Manny's
>: name doesn't appear on about 16 months of releases (Pete Burness was
>: in Friz's unit briefly during this time), then he worked on a McKimson
>: cartoon before replacing Chiniquy. I wonder where he went.
Believe it or not, Terrytoons would be a good guess.
>Don't know what happened to Don Smith. Yes..I think Williams and
>Davidovich were dismissed with Lloyd Turner and Bill Scott. Actually...I
>think Bill got fired before Lloyd. As Bill told it, he thought that he and
>Lloyd were writing partners. What the management didn't tell them was that
>they were actually in competition for one position, of which Turner was
>the "winner".
Try Columbia/UPA there.
S.J.Carras
Greg Duffell, at ligh...@idirect.com wrote:
>Jim Bennie (jgbe...@felix.vcn.bc.ca) wrote:
>
>: > There's also confusion about Manny Perez' status.
>: > Virgil Ross told me that Perez was "Friz's whipping boy".
>
>: Why was this?
>
>It's hard to say. It's well known that Friz was quite cantankerous. Virgil
>felt that Friz belittled Manny, then when Manny left Virgil felt that HE
>became the target of Friz' wrath.
Golly..ya don't suppose Speedy Gonzales was a RACIST indictment opf Perez now
(he did return to work with Friz later after all!)
20s-to-50...@onelist.com/
buffy...@eskimo.com
For more visit www.onelist.com
[Hyperlink eliminated for the hyperlink-wise challenged.
Anyone using my name on an e-mailing list will be reported.
Jim Bennie
> >: It seems Manny's
> >: name doesn't appear on about 16 months of releases
> Believe it or not, Terrytoons would be a good guess.
> >Don't know what happened to Don Smith.
> Try Columbia/UPA there.
Thanks, Garrison. I don't have credits anywhere for either Terry's
stuff or any of the early UPA cartoons (or last gasp Columbia's).
Oh, thanks to those who filled me in about ol' Bas.
Jim
Jim Bennie
duffell) wrote:
> I learned from talking with Bob Givens that some top people could be at
> the studio and not get any screen credit.
Really? This kinda surprises me, as I notice some cartoons from this
period have five and even six animators creditted.
> the late '40's...was a very bad time in Hollywood in the cartoon
> business.
I think the staff at the Lantz and Columbia studios figured that out
quickly. Geez, Disney stopped his regular schedule of shorts about
that time, too, didn't he.
> I think Bill got fired before Lloyd. As Bill told it, he thought that he
> and Lloyd were writing partners. What the management didn't tell them was
> that they were actually in competition for one position, of which Turner
> was the "winner".
Greg, I've got Animania edition where he says this, but the credits
don't really bear this out. Turner has a story credit on one cartoon
without Bill Scott, then Turner's gone, too. Sid Marcus got credit
for 'Bye Bye Bluebeard', then it was bye-bye Davis unit. If Lloyd
Turner won a contest, Sid Marcus would never have been brought in.
Mind you, management could have given that explanation to Bill Scott.
I've discovered that, on occasion, what management says and what they
do can be two entirely different things.
I see that Turner and Scott replaced Dave Monahan, who I think ended
up at Columbia. George Hill has a couple of story credits. I don't
know anything about him, other than he was at Fleischer's in the 30s.
Jim
gregory duffell
: >I met Manny Perez in 1975 at San Rio Productions during the production of
: >a feature film (I've forgotten the title now) that was like a rock music
: >Fantasia.
: Bakshi's "American Pop", perhaps?
No....The film I'm thinking of was produced under one title..then released
under another..but I don't think it really got a release in the US. It was
a Japanese production with animation done in the US. Some of the noteables
on the film: Willie Ito, Jerry Eisenberg, Amby Paliwoda, Fred Hellmich,
Don Patterson, Paul Julian, Perez and probably lots and lots of classic
animators I never met there. I'll have to do more research on this title.
: >: This piqued my curiosity so I went through the credits. It seems Manny's
: >: name doesn't appear on about 16 months of releases (Pete Burness was
: >: in Friz's unit briefly during this time), then he worked on a McKimson
: >: cartoon before replacing Chiniquy. I wonder where he went.
: Believe it or not, Terrytoons would be a good guess.
No...you're thinking of another "Manny"...whose name I can't recall right
now. Manny Perez never worked at Terrytoons. (not Manny Gould either)
Greg D.
Jim Bennie
duffell) wrote:
> No...you're thinking of another "Manny"...whose name I can't recall right
> now. Manny Perez never worked at Terrytoons. (not Manny Gould either)
Manny Davis isn't/wasn't related to Art Davis, is/was he?
Jim
WOTPPAPER
>up at Columbia. George Hill has a couple of story credits. I don't
>know anything about him, other than he was at Fleischer's in the 30s.
>
>Jim
Also in the 40s. He managed to get story credits on both coasts in 1946, for
"Klondike Casanova" at Famous and "Mouse Menace" with Davis at Warners
WOTPPAPER
That kind of completes the circle on this thread, doesn't it?
gregory duffell
: Manny was Art's brother.
: That kind of completes the circle on this thread, doesn't it?
Wow...I never knew that!!!
farley_m...@my-deja.com
> : >I met Manny Perez in 1975 at San Rio
Productions during the production of
> : >a feature film (I've forgotten the title
now) that was like a rock music
> : >Fantasia.
>
> : Bakshi's "American Pop", perhaps?
>
> No....The film I'm thinking of was produced
under one title..then released
> under another..but I don't think it really got
a release in the US. It was
> a Japanese production with animation done in
the US. Some of the noteables
> on the film: Willie Ito, Jerry Eisenberg, Amby
Paliwoda, Fred Hellmich,
> Don Patterson, Paul Julian, Perez and probably
lots and lots of classic
> animators I never met there. I'll have to do
more research on this title.
Sounds like the American-Japanese co-production
WINDS OF CHANGE (1978, aka "METAMORPHOSIS",
released by Sanrio). Animated feature film
anthology of classic Greek myths, with narration
and all voices by Peter Ustinov, and an
incongruous disco soundtrack. That'd be my best
guess, anyhow.
Cheers.
--The Self-Loathing Narcissist
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mark Evanier
duffell) posted:
>
>No....The film I'm thinking of was produced under one title..then released
>under another..but I don't think it really got a release in the US. It was
>a Japanese production with animation done in the US. Some of the noteables
>on the film: Willie Ito, Jerry Eisenberg, Amby Paliwoda, Fred Hellmich,
>Don Patterson, Paul Julian, Perez and probably lots and lots of classic
>animators I never met there. I'll have to do more research on this title.
ME: You're remembering a feature that was originally called
METAMORPHOSES (spelled like that, I think) but later released under
the name WINDS OF CHANGE.
As I recall, they released it in a few cities under the first name,
then pulled it back, did some recutting and released it in a few
cities under the second name. I'm not sure there wasn't a third name
at some point.
I recall visiting the studio -- at Sunset and Vine in the very old
building which contained Wallich's Music City -- and meetings lots of
wonderful animators and seeing loads of great art that never made it
into the feature. I believe there was a fire in the building that
destroyed some of the material before it could be photographed.
---------------
Mark Evanier
PMB 303
363 S. Fairfax Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90036-3124
Raine
Jim Bennie wrote in message <7u2e44$a...@felix.vcn.bc.ca>...
>Manny Davis isn't/wasn't related to Art Davis, is/was he?
I believe he was Art Davis' brother.
Mark Evanier
duffell) posted:
>That's the place Mark. I seem to remember it was just south of Chuck
>Jones' place in the Tower 12 building.
ME: It was catty-corner. Jones was in the building on the Southeast
corner and Sanrio was in the building on the Northwest corner. (By
the way, I believe Casey Kasem was at one time one of the owners of
the Tower 12 building.)
There's a bank building today on the Northeast corner. But once upon
a time, NBC's main radio studio was there.
>My visit was around third week of April, 1975. Today I had occasion to
>look at a picture of me and Willie Ito together taken that day.
ME: I was doing some projects for Sanrio at the time so we may have
passed in the halls.
gregory duffell
: On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:13:50 GMT, ligh...@idirect.com (gregory
: duffell) posted:
: >
: >No....The film I'm thinking of was produced under one title..then released
: >under another..but I don't think it really got a release in the US. It was
: >a Japanese production with animation done in the US. Some of the noteables
: >on the film: Willie Ito, Jerry Eisenberg, Amby Paliwoda, Fred Hellmich,
: >Don Patterson, Paul Julian, Perez and probably lots and lots of classic
: >animators I never met there. I'll have to do more research on this title.
: ME: You're remembering a feature that was originally called
: METAMORPHOSES (spelled like that, I think) but later released under
: the name WINDS OF CHANGE.
: I recall visiting the studio -- at Sunset and Vine in the very old
: building which contained Wallich's Music City -- and meetings lots of
: wonderful animators and seeing loads of great art that never made it
: into the feature. I believe there was a fire in the building that
: destroyed some of the material before it could be photographed.
That's the place Mark. I seem to remember it was just south of Chuck
Jones' place in the Tower 12 building.
I met some of the same animators.
My visit was around third week of April, 1975. Today I had occasion to
look at a picture of me and Willie Ito together taken that day.
Greg D.
.
: Los Angeles, CA 90036-3124
Dewey and Susan McGuire
ligh...@idirect.com (gregory duffell) wrote:
> No...you're thinking of another "Manny"...whose name I can't recall right
> now. Manny Perez never worked at Terrytoons. (not Manny Gould either)
>
> Greg D.
That would be Manny Davis, Art's brother. Somehow these things manage to
make their circuitous way back to the original topic.
-Dewey McGuire