Tradition - Hanging Dogs
je...@ix.netcom.com
I am asking for anyone who is concerned about the unnecessary torture and abuse of Spanish
Greyhounds, (also known as Galgos) to consider supporting the upcoming International Conference
on Animal
Protection in Spain. No
money is required. Just an e-mail with your name and state. No spam will end up in your mail
box.
This November, Barcelona will focus the attention of the whole country concerning the problems
of animal protection in
Spain and the need for modernization of their laws to define mistreatment and cruelty to
animals as a crime. They are
still practicing age old traditions that include slow and agonizing death to their hunting dogs
at the end of the
season. This is considered part of the sport and just one example of the type of abuse that
goes on. Legislation needs
to be changed to protect these animals from unnecessary abuse and to catch Spain up with the
rest of the world for
pete's sake. The conference will be held at the headquarters of the University of Barcelona,
from November 7th through
the 9th.
Should you wish to support the objectives and spirit of this conference, please follow this
link
http://www.altarriba.org/010/sesigue/cipae/cipaeI.htm
The more names they have on the list, the better their chance of success.
Please take a moment to read about this great effort. You can help end the suffering for these
innocent animals who
cannot speak for themselves.
Thanks for listening.
Jenn
diddy
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Jenn
My sentiments are for your cause.
I STILL feel that a country that celebrates bull fighting as a National
Sport is a lost cause.
Judi
DITTO, diddy :)
Judi
>
>
--
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
~ Mohandas Gandhi
je...@ix.netcom.com
These poor dogs are used for sport which is too closely related to bull fighting. I am sure they feel it would only open
the door for argument on issues they aren't going to change. We keep trying though.
Thanks again.
Jenn
diddy
Thanks for that. Good luck and best wishes? I sincerely doubt a person's
opinion from the USA is going to sway them.
Lori Reynolds
attention!
--
Lori in Peoria, IL
"diddy" <di...@diddy.net> wrote in message
news:3DB6FDED...@diddy.net...
je...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.ameurogreyhoundalliance.org/spain3.html
Thanks for bringing it up Lori.
Sigrun Grabowski
site. She is putting forth a tremendous effort on behalf of the galgos.
http://www.greyhoundsinneed.f9.co.uk/
Sigrun
Chris Garcia
yeah, i love seeing that clip from one of those "when animals attack"
programs, where the bull gets a chance at the bullfighter :)
-Chris
roo
> > Thanks for listening.
[..]
> My sentiments are for your cause.
> I STILL feel that a country that celebrates bull fighting as a National
> Sport is a lost cause.
Hi diddy,
Spain is full of all sorts of different people, some of whom are kind to
dogs, and others aren't. My friend Magdalena from a village in central Spain
has a greyhound cross ('galgo' is just Spanish for greyhound) and he is with
her everywhere she goes. He gets into her bed at night, and sleeps by the
small of her back. She has a videoclub, and he sits by her feet in the shop.
She owns a bar, and he sits on her lap in the bar (he is crossed with a
smaller dog).
Her friend Mari is frightened of dogs, even small ones. I squatted to say
hello to a small barking dog one day when I was with Mari, and Mari told me
to watch out in case it bit me. Dog of course didn't, and came up to say
hello. Mari was surprised.
Isa, a friend in Madrid, has a pyrenean shepherd called Trufa. Trufa and Isa
go for long walks in the mountains every weekend, and Isa takes her out for
a long walk in the barrio every night.
There are brutos in Spain, just like there are in the US. But I don't think
you should think of Spaniards as much different from other people you know
in terms of loving or not loving dogs. On average, the dog advice in the
Spanish dog group I post in is not as good as in some anglo groups, IMO.
People still think it's OK to scold pups for weeing indoors, for example.
But they do say not to frighten the dog. And the overall impression is that
people care a lot about dogs, and want to use kind methods in training them.
There are lots of posts from people trying to find homes for abandoned dogs,
and who want to improve conditions in dog pounds. Maybe if you try to think
of Spaniards as quite normal really, rather than creatures with horns and
tails, it is more possible to be effective. How about helping Spanish people
who are trying to change things in their own country?
Most of us don't like foreigners coming in and telling us we are barbarians.
People in the US don't take kindly to Brits saying the Amercians are
gun-toting savages and tolerate a mass slaughter every year in terms of
murders and gun-related accidents that no civilized country should tolerate.
It would really annoy you if these Brits argued that most Americans are
inherently violent, and one should try to change their ways by not going
there on holiday. Hit those Americans where it hurts - all they care about
is dollars. Now does that make you annoyed? Well if it does, think of how
Spaniards must feel if they hear this sort of argument.
Alikat
diddy
>
> Spain is full of all sorts of different people, some of whom are kind to
> dogs, and others aren't. My friend Magdalena from a village in central Spain
I have a friend in spain who was heartbroken when she lost her dog. She
adored that dog. They put it down because it had brucellosis. I told her
to just spay it, and they told her that others could catch it from urine
and body fluids and she had to be put down. She was devastated. We had a
talk about spaying and neutering, but she thought a female had a right
to breed, and wanted puppies out of her, even if mixed.
I love my friend. She is highly intelligent and a principle of a school.
I suggested her next dog be spayed early and she should live a long
normal life. Unfortunately she believes a dog has the right to roam
also. I realize this is just one case, and probably not representative
of the whole country, but I was saddened at her dogs loss. I also
wondered if that dogs death was fear stemming from the same ignorance
that got that dog in that situation to begin with.
I have mixed feelings about that. My vet says if a dog is brucellosis
positive, spay and neuter should be sufficient. If i had a breeding
kennel, I don't think I would want even a speutered dog dog on the
property. At the same time, seeing that this was a singular pet, i
can't see this dog's death as necessary. Comments? Is this a local or
national protocal regarding brucellosis positive dogs?
sighthounds etc.
>Spain is full of all sorts of different people, some of whom are kind to
>dogs, and others aren't. My friend Magdalena from a village in central Spain
>has a greyhound cross ('galgo' is just Spanish for greyhound) and he is with
>her everywhere she goes. He gets into her bed at night, and sleeps by the
>small of her back. She has a videoclub, and he sits by her feet in the shop.
>She owns a bar, and he sits on her lap in the bar (he is crossed with a
>smaller dog).
Lucky for that galgo, but unfortunately he's in the minority. Folks
in England and the USA are importing these dogs to save their lives,
which is also unfortunate, because there are already too many
Greyhounds in both of those countries needing homes.
>There are brutos in Spain, just like there are in the US. But I don't think
>you should think of Spaniards as much different from other people you know
>in terms of loving or not loving dogs. On average, the dog advice in the
>Spanish dog group I post in is not as good as in some anglo groups, IMO.
>People still think it's OK to scold pups for weeing indoors, for example.
>But they do say not to frighten the dog. And the overall impression is that
>people care a lot about dogs, and want to use kind methods in training them.
>There are lots of posts from people trying to find homes for abandoned dogs,
>and who want to improve conditions in dog pounds. Maybe if you try to think
>of Spaniards as quite normal really, rather than creatures with horns and
>tails, it is more possible to be effective. How about helping Spanish people
> who are trying to change things in their own country?
I think everyone knows that there are good people and bad people, and
animals lovers and animal torturers, everywhere. I doubt that people
outside of Spain who are trying to help the galgos think that people
in Spain have horns and tails. Spain, however, has some rather
spectacular animal cruelty which is very public and of which they seem
rather proud. Galgos in Spain are slowly hanged when they're finished
racing; that's because at least some of the locals enjoy watching them
die. I think that's barbaric. More barbaric even than, for example,
pinch collars. There are many, many people in the US who are helping
Spanish people who are trying to change things in their own country.
There are also lots of people in the US who are pretty busy working on
changing things in their own country (and we are often reminded by
people outside of the US that there is much needing change).
>Most of us don't like foreigners coming in and telling us we are barbarians.
>People in the US don't take kindly to Brits saying the Amercians are
>gun-toting savages and tolerate a mass slaughter every year in terms of
>murders and gun-related accidents that no civilized country should tolerate.
>It would really annoy you if these Brits argued that most Americans are
>inherently violent, and one should try to change their ways by not going
>there on holiday. Hit those Americans where it hurts - all they care about
>is dollars. Now does that make you annoyed? Well if it does, think of how
>Spaniards must feel if they hear this sort of argument.
Nothing will ever stop Brits and other non-Americans from saying
whatever they wish about Americans or from telling Americans how to
solve our problems and do things better. If those people feel that
the way to make their point is to stop coming to America and spending
their money here, fine. I have no problem with that. If Spaniards
are annoyed at Americans suggesting that people not go to Spain
because of bullfighting and what is done to galgos, perhaps those
Spaniards might work at changing how bulls and galgos are treated in
their country. Then other countries wouldn't have to get involved.
Sally Hennessey
roo
"sighthounds etc." <greypi...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:prrirusr36b2m1if6...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:41:56 +0100, "roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote:
[..]
> Nothing will ever stop Brits and other non-Americans from saying
> whatever they wish about Americans or from telling Americans how to
> solve our problems and do things better. If those people feel that
> the way to make their point is to stop coming to America and spending
> their money here, fine. I have no problem with that. If Spaniards
> are annoyed at Americans suggesting that people not go to Spain
> because of bullfighting and what is done to galgos, perhaps those
> Spaniards might work at changing how bulls and galgos are treated in
> their country. Then other countries wouldn't have to get involved.
What difference would it make if I said I wasn't going to go to the US
because you guys have a violent culture, which is why you kill such a high
proportion of dogs in your shelters? And that if this kind of statement
annoys you, perhaps you should do something about it so other countries
wouldn't have to get involved?
I think there are shades of what Patch and co used to piss people off doing
here. It would annoy you, because I know you do a lot of rescue work, and it
would be ignoring the efforts you, and people like you put in. It would have
little or no effect on the people who cause the problems - like the puppy
farmers, and the people who buy pups from puppy farms...if you want to
change things, you have to look at why they go wrong. Explaining what the
problems are with puppy farm dogs, for example, would have more effect than
saying you're not going to go the the US because 'Americans' are nasty to
dogs. You also have to understand the context in which people have to
operate. You don't go barging in dumping your own baggage and demanding that
people accommodate you.
Besides, greyhounds don't have too good a life in the UK after they finish
their careers, and many are culled, so we aren't in a position to take the
moral high ground.
Alikat
sighthounds etc.
>
>"sighthounds etc." <greypi...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
>news:prrirusr36b2m1if6...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:41:56 +0100, "roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>> Nothing will ever stop Brits and other non-Americans from saying
>> whatever they wish about Americans or from telling Americans how to
>> solve our problems and do things better. If those people feel that
>> the way to make their point is to stop coming to America and spending
>> their money here, fine. I have no problem with that. If Spaniards
>> are annoyed at Americans suggesting that people not go to Spain
>> because of bullfighting and what is done to galgos, perhaps those
>> Spaniards might work at changing how bulls and galgos are treated in
>> their country. Then other countries wouldn't have to get involved.
>
>What difference would it make if I said I wasn't going to go to the US
>because you guys have a violent culture, which is why you kill such a high
>proportion of dogs in your shelters? And that if this kind of statement
>annoys you, perhaps you should do something about it so other countries
>wouldn't have to get involved?
What difference would it make to what? If people want to protest
against things they don't like in the US by not coming to the US, that
is their right. I think there's a big difference between killing a
high number of dogs in shelters and hanging racing dogs that are no
longer useful in such a way that they die a slow, agonizing death. If
you don't see that difference, well, that's OK too. Also, I'm not
aware that other countries are helping out to a great extent with the
US companion animal overpopulation problem. Yes, we have lots of
problems here in the US, but this particular comparison is, I think,
apples to oranges.
>I think there are shades of what Patch and co used to piss people off doing
>here. It would annoy you, because I know you do a lot of rescue work, and it
>would be ignoring the efforts you, and people like you put in. It would have
>little or no effect on the people who cause the problems - like the puppy
>farmers, and the people who buy pups from puppy farms...if you want to
>change things, you have to look at why they go wrong. Explaining what the
>problems are with puppy farm dogs, for example, would have more effect than
>saying you're not going to go the the US because 'Americans' are nasty to
>dogs. You also have to understand the context in which people have to
>operate. You don't go barging in dumping your own baggage and demanding that
>people accommodate you.
I'm not even remotely suggesting that. I'm simply saying that I don't
have a problem with withholding tourist dollars from a country whose
policies I don't agree with. Heck, I'd do it with states in the US
that were doing things I strongly disagreed with.
>Besides, greyhounds don't have too good a life in the UK after they finish
>their careers, and many are culled, so we aren't in a position to take the
>moral high ground.
The same is true here. However, excess Greyhounds are not tortured in
the US or the UK, and that's what we're talking about here.
Sally Hennessey
roo
> What difference would it make to what? If people want to protest
> against things they don't like in the US by not coming to the US, that
> is their right. I think there's a big difference between killing a
> high number of dogs in shelters and hanging racing dogs that are no
> longer useful in such a way that they die a slow, agonizing death. If
> you don't see that difference, well, that's OK too. Also, I'm not
> aware that other countries are helping out to a great extent with the
> US companion animal overpopulation problem. Yes, we have lots of
> problems here in the US, but this particular comparison is, I think,
> apples to oranges.
Whar difference would it make in terms of 'making things better'. Yes people
have a right to protest, but if the aim of the protest is to make things
better, then not visiting somewhere because you don't like what some people
do there may not be the most effective form of protest. If you want to make
things better, then it might be more effective to ask people like you who do
rescue work what the problem is, why it happens, and what help might be
useful.
[..]
> The same is true here. However, excess Greyhounds are not tortured in
> the US or the UK, and that's what we're talking about here.
I've found the Brits all too willing to believe accounts of what goes on in
Spain that fit their preconceptions of what Spaniards are like. Our
newspapers tend to pick up on these preconceptions, and paint Spain as
barbaric. I have not met anyone, including owners of hunting dogs, who
tortures dogs for fun in Spain. Yet in my town in England there have been
cases of kittens tortured by teenage boys, and hedgehogs run over by young
men for fun. You could easily pull together all the incidents of horrific
injuries to animals and paint a picture of the UK as a very uncaring society
where animals are concerned. You could also paint a picture of Spain as a
very caring society, if you focus on the efforts many people put into making
life more pleasant for companion animals, and the way things are improving.
Alikat
sighthounds etc.
>"sighthounds etc." <greypi...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
>news:lssjru0v49akv8lgp...@4ax.com...
>
>> What difference would it make to what? If people want to protest
>> against things they don't like in the US by not coming to the US, that
>> is their right. I think there's a big difference between killing a
>> high number of dogs in shelters and hanging racing dogs that are no
>> longer useful in such a way that they die a slow, agonizing death. If
>> you don't see that difference, well, that's OK too. Also, I'm not
>> aware that other countries are helping out to a great extent with the
>> US companion animal overpopulation problem. Yes, we have lots of
>> problems here in the US, but this particular comparison is, I think,
>> apples to oranges.
>
>Whar difference would it make in terms of 'making things better'. Yes people
>have a right to protest, but if the aim of the protest is to make things
>better, then not visiting somewhere because you don't like what some people
>do there may not be the most effective form of protest. If you want to make
>things better, then it might be more effective to ask people like you who do
>rescue work what the problem is, why it happens, and what help might be
>useful.
People like me who do rescue work are already involved. We're not
talking about things like animal overpopulation, or random acts of
cruelty perpetrated on animals by kids or whatever. We're talking
about the way galgos are disposed of when they no longer make money
for people. I know that in some countries, eating dog is part of the
culture. I don't like it, but it's part of the culture. I'm not
necessarily going to do anything to try to stop people in those
countries from eating dog, but if I did want to try to encourage them
to stop eating dog, I'd probably look at the cultural tradition of
eating dog and consider why they do it, etc. Taking dogs that worked
for you and hanging them so that they die very slowly, in fear and
agony, is torture, and it's barbaric. I don't care why people do it;
it's torture, and it should be stopped. It's my opnion that when a
practice involves torture, whether it be of animals or people, it is
wrong whether it's part of the culture or not. The government in
Spain has resisted entreaties to stop the torture of galgos. An
economic boycott of that government by potential tourists because of a
practice which the government refuses to stop is not inappropriate, in
my opinion.
>> The same is true here. However, excess Greyhounds are not tortured in
>> the US or the UK, and that's what we're talking about here.
>
>I've found the Brits all too willing to believe accounts of what goes on in
>Spain that fit their preconceptions of what Spaniards are like. Our
>newspapers tend to pick up on these preconceptions, and paint Spain as
>barbaric. I have not met anyone, including owners of hunting dogs, who
>tortures dogs for fun in Spain. Yet in my town in England there have been
>cases of kittens tortured by teenage boys, and hedgehogs run over by young
>men for fun. You could easily pull together all the incidents of horrific
>injuries to animals and paint a picture of the UK as a very uncaring society
>where animals are concerned. You could also paint a picture of Spain as a
>very caring society, if you focus on the efforts many people put into making
>life more pleasant for companion animals, and the way things are improving.
I am not painting any pictures of any societies. I have not said
that Spain is full of barbarians or animal haters, any more than I've
said that about the UK or the US or anywhere else. There are plenty
of cases of animal abuse in the US too, as I'm sure you are well
aware. That's not what we're talking about here, and the efforts of
Spaniards to make life more pleasant for companion animals have
nothing to do with hanging galgos. The fact that you have never met
anyone in Spain who tortures animals also has nothing to do with the
fact - - and it is a fact - - that galgos are hanged in Spain. I've
never met anyone in the US who tortures animals, either, but it
certainly happens here. I've talked with people who have been to
Spain to help in the rescue efforts - - they have seen what has
happened - - this is not a case of preconceptions or inaccurate
newspaper stories. The fact that animal abuse happens in the US and
the UK and probably every country in the world does not negate the
fact that galgos are tortured in Spain. The fact that the US kills
hundreds of thousands of animals yearly does not mean that people in
the US cannot have opinions about the hanging of galgos in Spain.
Sally Hennessey
je...@ix.netcom.com
>
> >I think there are shades of what Patch and co used to piss people off doing
> >here. It would annoy you, because I know you do a lot of rescue work, and it
> >would be ignoring the efforts you, and people like you put in. It would have
> >little or no effect on the people who cause the problems - like the puppy
> >farmers, and the people who buy pups from puppy farms...if you want to
> >change things, you have to look at why they go wrong. Explaining what the
> >problems are with puppy farm dogs, for example, would have more effect than
> >saying you're not going to go the the US because 'Americans' are nasty to
> >dogs. You also have to understand the context in which people have to
> >operate. You don't go barging in dumping your own baggage and demanding that
> >people accommodate you.
>
> I'm not even remotely suggesting that. I'm simply saying that I don't
> have a problem with withholding tourist dollars from a country whose
> policies I don't agree with. Heck, I'd do it with states in the US
> that were doing things I strongly disagreed with.
>
> >Besides, greyhounds don't have too good a life in the UK after they finish
> >their careers, and many are culled, so we aren't in a position to take the
> >moral high ground.
>
> The same is true here. However, excess Greyhounds are not tortured in
> the US or the UK, and that's what we're talking about here.
>
> Sally Hennessey
Sally,
Thank you. The torture is what we are trying to stop. It is so hideous and
unfair that it continues without any any legal protection for these dogs.
It simply must change.
Jenn