HELP: My dog chases lights & shadows (LONG!)

[The Puppy Wizard]

HOWEDY tracy,

"Tracy Doyle" <tr...@unspam.rag-time.com> wrote in message
news:3FF71D2B...@unspam.rag-time.com...
>
> "VacationRenters.com" wrote:
> >
> > We have a 1 yr old Golden Retriever.
>
> Hi, Tim...
>
> I have two deaf dogs.

Your dogs ain't deaf. They just don't listen to you.

> And yes, I have a similar problem.

Your dogs have been in treatment at Purdue university
behavior clinic and on psychotropic meds UNSUCCESSFULLY,
for years.

> It seems that

Seems that you're a liar and dog abuser.

> deaf dogs

A dog is a dog.

> have an unusually high incidence of this type
> of compulsive behavior,

Purdue sez OCD'S are precipitated by STRESS.

> and if it shows up,

Nuthin happens by ACCIDENT, tracy. YOU CAUSE
YOUR DOG'S STRESS INDUCED TEMPERAMENT
and HEALTH DIS-EASES.

> it seems to happen between the dog's first
> and second birthday,

It takes a while for the STRESS to take it's toll
on the nervHOWES system.

> from the reports of other deaf dog owners.

Deaf dogs tend to get PUNISHED MOORE
than hearing dogs.

> But it happens occasionally in hearing dogs, too.

A dog is a dog, tracy. All behavior problems
are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> Usually in drivey, high energy dogs,

You mean HYPERACTIVE HOWETA CONTROL
anxiHOWES dogs, tracy.

> and also in certain breeds.

No. You ain't gettin away with blamin the dog
noMOORE for behavior problems YOU CAUSE
by ABUSING your dogs, tracy.

> There seems to be a hereditary element to it, as well.

That's a load of crap, tracy.

> I'm going to tell you our story

You're a liar and a dog abuser, tracy.

> and what I did

You HURT and INTIMIDATED your dogs, tracy.

> and didn't do,

You didn't train them, tracy. You ABUSED your
dogs to CAUSE the OCD behavior problems
they've been UNSUCCESSFULLY TREATED
for at the university behavior clinic, tracy.

>since I've dealt with it twice

Dogs GET OCD behavior problems like
HOWE they get SEIZURES... from STRESS.

> in different ways

You HURT and INTIMIDATE your dogs.

> and with different results.

BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> You have to make up your own mind on
> how to handle it with your own dog.

You mean HOWE MUCH to HURT IT, tracy.

> My first experience with it was with my Australian
> Cattle Dog, Sugar Baby. About 2 weeks after her
> first birthday, she fixated on her own shadow on
> the stairs for some reason.

The reason is you've provoked her to INSANITY.

> She spent about an hour running up
> and down the stairs before I really
> figured out what she was up to.

You're not the brightest bulb in the chandolier, tracy.

> I didn't know what to do,

You HURT your dogs, tracy.

> so I got on the internet and googled "shadow
> chasing dogs." All the conventional wisdom

You mean the SUCCESSFUL methods to
EXXXTINGUISH OCD behaviors, tracy?

> said not to correct the behavior

You mean HURT the dog, tracy.

> because that makes it worse.

HURTING dogs for ANXIHOWESNESS never
makes them FEEL HAPPY, tracy. HURTING
dog's behavior problems causes them to change
to other, often worse, seemingly non related behavior
problems and stress induced DEATHLY physical
health DIS-EASES.

> I called my private trainer/behaviorist,

BWEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

You mean you called the professional
abuser who taught you to ABUSE your dogs.

> but she wouldn't help until we had been to a
> vet to rule out such things as epilepsy, etc.

BWEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> She kept right on chasing shadows and lights
> REALLY badly.

Yeah... that's what happens when you IGNORE
behavior problems, tracy.

> I made an appointment with a veterinary behaviorist -

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Your veterinary behaviorist is a FRAUD, tracy.

> couldn't get in for three weeks,

And it cost you HUNDREDS of bucks.

> so the behavior continued.

Takes MINUTES to EXXXTINGUISH this behavior, tracy.

> In the meantime, I went to our regular
> vet and got her on a Clomicalm equivalent.

BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Instead of breaking the problem NEARLY INSTANTLY
GENTLY and FOR FREE.

> All that did was zonk her out and completely
> ruined her performance in obedience classes.

You mean her jerking and choking classes.

> She was a zombie -

The fruit don't fall far from the fruitcake. Does it, tracy.

> but it didn't affect the shadow chasing at all.

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Your dog chases shadows cause you hurt
and intimidate her. NUTHIN is gonna FIX
THAT till YOU STOP HURTING HER.

> I did try distraction, to no avail.

You mean you tried alternate incompatible
behaviors and bribery, tracy. You got no
understanding of behavior trainin and
conditioning or you wouldn't NEED to
HURT your dogs, tracy.

> When I finally did go to the behaviorist, he
> gave me a full program to follow -

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

TAKES MINUTES TO BREAK THIS PROBLEM.

> two half-hour walks per day, lots of play,

That's IRRELEVENT, tracy. You might ask
professor SCRUFF SHAKE HOWE he CURED
his little dog Maxie The Magnificent FuriHOWESLY
Obsessive Compulsive Masturbator's obsessive
compulsive masturbation, tracy.

> but - to keep her in a gentle leader head collar

You mean a fear force intimidation neck twister device.

> with a drag line all the time.

Of curse the manufacturer sez NEVER do that.
The Puppy Wizard sez NEVER have a dog on
lead you ain't handling.

> I never did like those things

That's on accHOWENT of you don't FEEL
like you've HURT the dog enough with it.
There's no SATISFACTION of givin your
dog a nice jerk and choke.

> and I liked them even less after I put it on my dog.

Oh. That's on accHOWENT of you HURT your dog
when you pull her on it.

> She was so disconcerted by the thing -

That's cause you FORCE and INTIMIDATE her, tracy.

> she just laid there and didn't want to move at all.

That's what happens when you pull them, tracy.

> The behaviorist said it had a "calming" effect.

Your "behaviorist" is a FRAUD.

> I didn't see any "calm" at all -

What you SAW was your dog goin catatonic
from FEAR, tracy. The SAME FEAR that makes
her chase lites..

> she was petrified!

That's on accHOWENT of YOU HURT HER, tracy.

> When she did get up and walk, she dragged
> her nose on the ground and would go a few
> feet and lay down to paw at her face.

That's on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE
to handle your dog withHOWET HURTIN HER, tracy.
You're a DOG ABUSER a liar and a MENTAL CASE.

> She started licking her paws with avengence
> and snapping at the other dogs when they came
> close, and chasing her tail.

BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

You traded WON behavior that you STILL
couldn't break for three new WONS tryin
to break the original problem caused by
you ABUSING your dogs.

> By the next day, she had sores on her paws
> from licking and on her nose from dragging it.

It's not your fault you're an abuser, tracy. You was
raised like that by your abuser. You need professional
mental health care, tracy.

> No, she didn't chase shadows while she had it on,

You mean, so long as you could HURT her, tracy.
That's HOWE COME dogs do STUFF behind your
back when they KNOW you can't CATCH them in
the act and HURT them. Soon as they GET AWAY
with doin STUFF behind your back they've been
VARIABLY REINFORCED for their BAD BEHAIVORS
and then you'll NEVER break it... unless you know HOWE.

> but she developed two other compulsive behaviors
> (licking and tail chasing) and became aggressive.

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

You're pathetic, tracy.

> So, off came the GL ...

Another $20.00 dHOWEN the tubes, eh tracy?

> IMHO, some dogs

A dog is a dog, tracy.

> do just fine with it

If you know HOWE to pupperly handle a
dog it only takes fifteen minutes to condition
them to a head harness, tracy. But you can't
PULLl and BRIBE, tracy. That's all you know.

> and some can't deal with it.

Tha's a load of crap, tracy.

> Mine couldn't.

Your dogs are MENTAL cause you ABUSE them.

> A few months later, I accidentally took one of her pills.

HOWE does a normal intelligent human being
JUST HAPPEN to "accidentally" take their dog's
psychotropic medication, tracy? You could get
busted for misappupriating and illegally using
prescription medications, tracy.

> That was an eye-opener.

That so, tracy? Was it REALLY?

No tracy. You're still a MENTAL CASE.

> I was giving her two, twice a day. She weighs
> about 36 pounds. I took one, and I weigh one
> heck of a lot more than she does. It hit me like
> a ton of bricks -

That's on accHOWENT of your dog's got
a whole lot MOORE INTELLECT to work with.

> I was totally buzzed.

That's on accHOWENT of you got practically
no functioning brain cells...

> I almost had my S.O.

Your mental health aide?

> take me to the emergency room!

You belong in a mental ward. But prison would
be FINE as far as your dogs are concerned, no dHOWET.

> That's mighty powerful stuff

Your mind hasn't the strongest constitution, tracy.

> and I was both nervous and drowsy at the same time.

You're a psychopath, tracy.

> After that, I decided to get that little dog off
> those meds,

That was another hundred sumpthin bucks a month...

> and we weaned her off it over a period
> of several weeks.

Yeah. You can't stop takin psychotropics cold turkey
cause you'll have seizures and maybe drop dead.

> NEVER AGAIN will I give my dog a drug like that.

But you'll continue to nick your dog's psychotropics
if you can get a buzz when you're havin a psychotic
break from reality, eh tracy.

> At my wits end,

You never had any WIT or you wouldn't NEED
to HURT your dogs, tracy.

> I tried something that is controversial and
> I KNOW I'm going to get flamed for this,

Not here, tracy. Your pals are likeWIZE liars
dog abusers and mental cases who PREFER
to HURT dogs and LIE abHOWET it.

> but I really don't care.

Perhaps that's part of your MENTAL DIS-EASE, tracy.

> I had used a prong collar

To HURT her.

> on her occasionally

When you NEEDED to HURT her to make
her want to listen to you cause you run HOWETA
ideas and informatin and methods, eh tracy.

> in obedience training,

You mean submission trainin, tracy.

> so I put it back on her,

Good for you, tracy.

> with a drag line.

So you could snatch her up and jerk and choke her
to calm her dHOWEN and make her FEEL HAPPY
and SAFE and CALM, eh tracy?

> When she went after shadows, I grabbed the
> leash and corrected her,

You mean you jerked and choked her, tracy.

> signed "NO SHADOWS,"

Your sign for that is to cover your eyes?

> then had her do some obedience work

You mean you jerked and choked her someMOORE.

> and treated her when she did well.

That's kindly of you, tracy. All that's REWARDING
the behavior with your direct attention and a cookie.

> I was consistent with this

You mean you HURT HER every time she does it.
That'll only teach her not to do that when you're
standing there ready to HURT her someMOORE.

Soon as she does that when you're not standing
there to HURT HER, she'll have VARIABLY REINFORCED
the behavior and you'll NEVER be able to stop her from
doin it.

> and it HAS reduced her shadow chasing,

YOU MEAN IT DIDN'T WORK.

> but it hasn't stopped it.

RIGHT! But you'll cause other behavior
problems and deathly stress induced
physical DIS-EASES cause YOU HURT
YOUR DOG, tracy.

> I'm convinced that I waited too long -

Before taking psychotropics? Your pals
have been on them for years, didn't they
share the GOOD NEWS of life with the
safety cushion of lituium and zoloff and
paxil and efflexor?

You gotta catch up with the times, tracy.
Takin mentally ill medication is accepted
in HOWER society. It's better than just
being plain NUTS.

> it had been several months since
> she started the behavior and it was
> quite ingrained.

Yeah. The problem is you don't know HOWE
to NOT HURT your dogs, tracy.

> Now, 2 years later, she still chases shadows,

INDEEDY. That's on accHOWENT of you STILL HURT HER.

> but mostly it's only when my S.O. and I
> move around the house.

THAT'S CAUSE YOUR DOGS FEAR YOU.

> She has good days and bad days.

No tracy. Your dogs live in a constant state
of threat and duress. They only have BAD
and WORSE THAN BAD days, tracy. Your
dogs are the MOST FEARFUL in the battlefield
of your own HOWES.

That's HOWE COME mental illness care needs a
few LAWS behind it to lock folks like you where
you won't HURT others...

> On her bad days, I put the collar and leash on

AND HURT HER.

> and it DOES calm her down.

Jerking and choking does not calm your dog.
It makes her deathly physically ill, tracy. Ask
professor SCRUFF SHAKE.

> Usually, I don't even have to give her any corrections.

You just THREATEN to HURT her. UCLA's most
recent work sez the THREAT of PAIN is worse
PUNISHMENT than administering PAIN... The
Puppy Wizard knew THAT, tracy.

That's HOWE COME you and your pals
are GOIN MENTAL over The Puppy Wizard
IDENTIFYING and EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING
you and you lying dog abusing punk thug coward pals.

> What's really odd is that she doesn't do
> this anywhere else.

Oh, that's on accHOWENT of she's not HURT
elsewhere as bad as she gets HURT in your HOWES.

> Out of the house,

She feels she has a chance at ESCAPE.
That preoccupies her thoughts.

> she's a perfectly calm little lady.

She's lookin for an ESCAPE rHOWET
or she's goin catatonic from FEAR.

> I've taken her on trips with us, she goes
> everywhere with me when I can take her
> and she's rock solid and reliable.

So long as you got her on a pronged spiked
pinch choke or shock collar.

> She's even a certified therapy dog!

She's been bullied into being submissive.

> When people come over and see the behavior,
> they can hardly believe it's the same dog.

Right... That's cause she knows you won't HURT
HER in front of DECENT PEOPLE.

> I tell them that she's convinced there are ghosts
> in the walls, and she thinks it's her job to keep
> them there.

That's caused by constant repetitive abuse, tracy.

> I kind of believe that, to a certain degree.

You're a MENTAL CASE, tracy.

> She's also fixated on a ball -

Your dog NEEDS to think of anyting other
than YOU HURTIN HER.

> a Jolly ball teaser (hard plastic with
> holes and a smaller soft ball inside).

That's comforting, ain't it, tracy.

> She carries it around with her all the time,

Dogs DO that so they don't GET IN TRHOWEBLE.

> and when she gets cranked up on shadows
> she does her best to "kill" it.

Good, the behavior is getting worse...

> Her compulsive behavior doesn't bug me
> anymore like it used to,

That's good that your dog's anxiety behavior
problems caused by abuse don't BOTHER
YOU, tracy.

> but I wish I had corrected the behavior earlier on.

You haven't CURED the problem tracy. You can't
cure this problem cause this problem is caused
by you and DSO HURTING your dogs.

> She'll probably do this for the rest of her life.

Cause you'll HURT and INTIMIDATE HER
for the rest of her life. That's the NATURE
of a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE.

> Right after she started this behavior, I wound up
> with a deaf pit bull puppy as a foster dog. Long
> story, but I wound up keeping her. She grew
> up watching Sugar getting whacked out on shadows,

Dogs don't develop anxiety behavior problems
from watching other SICK dogs, tracy.

> but didn't seem to pay any attention.

It taks TIME for STRESS to take it's toll on
the nervHOWES system, tracy.

> Then one day, shortly after her first birthday (again!),
> I saw her charging after shadows on the wall.

Your record is 100% CONSISTENT FAILURE.

Doesn't that tell you sumpthin???

> THIS time, I put the pinch collar on her and
> corrected her STRONGLY,

You mean you HURT HER.

>then did some obedience moves with her,

You mean you HURT her someMOORE.

> heavy praise and treats.

Yeah... after the fact, eh tracy???

> When I let her go, she went after the
> shadows once more and I did the same thing.

You mean you HURT her again...

> I was determined NOT to have
> two whacko dogs in the house.

There's not enough room for a other
MENTAL CASE, eh tracy?

> Well, it worked.

Did it work, tracy? NO. It diddn't work It APPEARED
to work but that's just an illusion. The behaviors are
still there, you dog is only AFRAID to do them in front
of you.

> I had to remind her ONCE a couple of weeks later.

You mean you NEEDED TO HURT HER AGAIN, tracy.

> Oh,> once in a while she'll see a light on the wall
> and start to go toward it, but she looks at me, first.

GOOD! That means you've sufficitiently intimidated
her so she won't DO that if you're able to HURT her.

> I sign to her NO SHADOWS,

You play peek a boo?

> LEAVE IT!

You mean you threaten to jerk and choke her...again.

>and she does.

She'll find the lites in your HOWES WON fine
day when you're HOWET and she's escaped
her crate, and she'll destroy your furniture...

> Then I call her over to me,

So you can give IT a cookie?

> do some sits and downs

You mean someMOORE jerking and choking.

> and a few tricks - lots of praise and treats.

Yeah. Treats...

> NO drugs, NO behaviorists, NO not-so-gentle leaders -

The stuff you wasted hundreds of bucks on...

> just good old-fashioned correction,

You mean PAIN, tracy. You HURT your dogs.
That's HOWE COME they GET OCD beahavior
problems, tracy. Ask matty. Ask disciple cad. Ask
professor SCRUFF SHAKE. Ask Master Of Deception
blanman. Ask ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN, tracy.

> distraction and redirection.

No tracy. You do not "distract" when you give
an alternate incompeatible behavior, that's
REWARDING and REINFORCING the behavior
by giving it 100% of your direct undivided attention, tracy.

> I didn't give her a chance to get into a habit -

So you THINK, tracy. HOWE COME your dog GOT
OCD behaivors is the same same same, tracy. It's
cause YOU ABUSE THEM, tracy.

> I marked it as incorrect behavior

You mean YOU HURT HER.

> as soon as I saw it,

As long as you can ALWAYS SEE the behaivor
and HURT HER when you see it, that'll WORK.

But fail WON time, and the dog will GO NUTS
and you'll NEVER stop her from doin it again
unless you know HOWE.

> then gave her something better to do with her time.

Like HIDE from you abusing her someMOORE.

> Tim, if you have questions, I will answer them.

You're a dog abuser and that's HOWE COME
your dogs GOT OCD behavior and deathly physical
health DIS-EASES. You're a liar and a MENTAL
CASE, tracy. You HURT dogs cause it MAKES
YOU FEEL PHOWERFUL and IN CONTROL and
compensates for your fragile defective ego, fearful
weak mind and inferiority complexes, tracy.

You need mental health care.

> I will not respond to flames, though.

Of curse not! That's the nature of a dog abusing coward.
Ask professor SCRUFF SHAKE or ed w of PET LOSS
dot COIN or ChadL or C. L....

> I'm just telling what worked and what didn't work for ME

This really IS all abHOWET "ME," ain't it, tracy.

> and MY DOGS.

Your dogs would run HOWET on you if
you left that line off your pronged spiked
pinch choke collar and let the door open
for WON minute.

> All dogs are individuals

No. A dog is a dog. That's your EXXXCUSE
to HURT INDIVIDUAL dogs when your briberyf
fear force and intimidation and avoidance FAILS.

> and I'm not recommending anything in particular.

Yes you are, tracy. You HURT your dogs to train them.

> You have to find what works for you

You HURT your dogs cause it makes YOU FEEL GOOD.

> and your dog.

Your dogs are deathly ill cause you abuse them, tracy.

> I wish you luck ...

Dog trainin ain't LUCK "Luck is for SUCKERS," The
Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

> I know how heartbreaking it is to see your
> dog get addicted to a behavior like this.

Yeah. You've got LOTS of EXXXPERIENCE CAUSING IT.

> Oh, and NO LASER POINTERS!

Oh? That's an EXXXCELLENT TRAININ AIDE!

> No flashlights - nothing like that.

Cause his dog will chase it EVERY TIME, eh tracy?
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE The Puppy Wizard would
EXXXTINGUISH the behavior problem, tracy.

> Let your dog chase a ball for exercise.

That's gonna becom a FIXATION too, tracy. Remember???

> Kind Regards,

KIND, tracy? You're a dog abuser and a mental case.

> Tracy

There's NO behavior problems that can't be CURED
NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET HURTIN noWON.
And The Puppy Wizard can do it AUTOMAGICKALLY,
to boot:

"misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21047-3CA...@storefull-2291.public.lawson.w
ebtv .net...
> Jerry sent me the DDR when I mentioned my cockatoo
> was stressed out by my then just learning to walk
> baby.

> Buddy was screaming day and night..lunging at Joey
> whenever he crawled up to Buddy's cage and nipping
> the baby ( if Buddy wanted to his beak is powerful
> enough to sever an adult's finger in one snap!) At
> first we noticed nothing... after a few days
> ..nothing..nothing except quiet :-)

> That's not to say Buddy never screams.. heh.. he'a a
> 'Too.. but the late night scream-a-thons ended.

> He also tolerates Joey playing in his water dish
> <sigh> just what I want...2 splashers! Buddy loves
> to bathe in his water until there's more water on
> the floor and walls than in his dish :-)

> Twice now Buddy has had marathon scream-a-thons...
> for a few days each time. It takes that long for me
> to realize the DDR is unplugged :-O
> Once cos DH did some maintenance and forgot to plug
> it back in ( of course he remembered to plug the
> washing machine back in ;-P)

> The second time I had unplugged it while
> sweeping...and forgot to plug it back in...

> We sure enjoy him being such a good bird! He's been
> so loving to everyone... my older 2 boys love being
> able to give him scritches again.

> ~misty

> (No, Jerry, you can't have the DDR back just yet! :-)

===================

Subj: Fear of Thunder
Date: 6/29/02 6:07:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Jraltman
To: Witsenddog

Dear Jerry,

I hope you'll be able to post this message so more people who
are at their wit's end will be able to help their dogs.

To review:

Our puppy was uncomfortable during thunder storms.
At the beginning of the problem, she paced restlessly
from room to room. She couldn't settle and sleep.

From there the problem grew. She would run to the
far southeast corner of the house (which makes
sense because most storms here come from the
northwest) and she'd cower in the corner of the
couch and shake.

1st attempt to help her:

I'd pick her up, brush and massage her (call me a nut -
I've sung to her when I've done her daily brushing since
she was tiny so of course I sang too) and when she
relaxed, I'd put her in her crate. She then slept and I
thought the problem was solved.

Traumatic event:

We were out in the park playing with one of her doggy
friends when it began to rain. On the way home, there
was the loudest, longest, thunder clap I've ever heard.
From that day on, the problem got worse and worse.

I couldn't calm her with singing and massage. The
fear spread. She wouldn't go out if it was raining.
No thunder, just gently summer rain, and she
wouldn't go out.

The solution:

I surfed the net and came across a free manual Wit's
End Dog Training Method and a product called Doggy
Do Right that seemed better than anything else I came
across.

A phone call to Jerry Howe, author of the manual and
Director of Research, Biosound Scientific, convince
me to try both the manual and the product.

Problem solved:

I followed Jerry's suggestions (more phone calls - he
is most generous with his time and advice).

The first two thunder storms my puppy was restless but
not running around in a blind panic. The third storm, she
barked her deep, stranger danger bark after each clap of
thunder. The fourth storm, she seemed uneasy at first.

Soon she was asleep at my feet and she napped through
the rest of the storm. A miracle. I am endlessly grateful to
Jerry for his manual and his machine.

A word about Doggy Do Right. It is odd to buy a machine
that emits a sound I cannot hear. I took the chance because
Jerry offered a full refund including shipping.

Though I heard nothing, my puppy clearly did. When I first
turned on the machine, she got the cutest, most quizzical
look on her face. She looked at me as if to say: "What's
that? I never heard that before." She looks at the machine
when it is on.

She rests on the floor beneath it.

It is obvious from her behavior that she is aware of its
cycles.

Amazing.

Thank you Jerry.

=============

"Linda" <llindal...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.03041...@posting.google.com...
> "Rosa Palmén" <ro...@no-spam.locomail.com> wrote in message
news:<_bhla.1641$M47.1...@reader1.news.jippii.net>...

> Rosa, I got the doggy do right machine from Jerry
> in Jan and my dog relaxed in the first week. He
> does not have SA but he scratched himself raw
> until I got the machine. He also was a frantic
> chewer on his sticks until I got the machine.
>
> In less than a month he really relaxed. Now when
> the machine in on he just lays down and goes to sleep.
>
> If there is something outside that upsets him like a
> cat in the yard I just turn it on and he can cope.
>
> You will see all sorts of comments about the machine
> being as loud as a freight train etc but it is small and
> can not be heard by humans. I know he can hear it
> and that it relaxes him because I can see him relax
> when he hears it.
>
> I used the machine outside on the patio to quiet to
> dogs behind us that barked a hundred times a day.
> In two weeks they reduced the barking by 80%--
> When they barked after the machine was on Sunshine
> ran to the patio as they were alarm barking not just
> barking to pass the time.
>
> I asked the owners if they had noticed the dogs barking
> less and they said yes they had guessed the dogs were
> just growing up.
>
> Sunshine loved daycare but he was kicked out when he
> got aggressive but now than he has been trained with
> Jerry's Wits End Method and the machine I think I will
> let him go back to daycare.
>
> I am disabled so I can not run and play with him and
> I know he needs to play with other dogs.
>
> Go to www.doggydoright.com and read about the
> machine and get a free copy of Wits End Training
> Manual--since the info is free you won't lose anything
> and you can really help your dog.
>
> Linda and Sunshine

-------------------------------

<"Terri"@cyberhighway

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog
into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that
hide behind fake names are more honest than people that
use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante
dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than
those that have studied and lived by their craft for
decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===============

[The Puppy Wizard]

HOWEDY tricia666,

"Tricia9999" <trici...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040103210106...@mb-m27.aol.com...

>
> >So, off came the GL ...

The GL makes some dogs aggressive.

> > IMHO, some dogs do just fine with it and some
> >can't deal with it. Mine couldn't.

That's cause you abuse the dog with it.

> Many don't adjust to the GL

That's a load of crap. That's on accHOWENT
of you don't know HOWE to handle a dog
withHOWET HURTING HIM.

> > A few months later, I accidentally took one of her pills.

Yeah. Accidentally.

> > That was an eye-opener.

INDEED?

<snip>

> Fascinating.

You mean INSANE. Don't you.

> We are drugging our kids and dogs

That's cause you ABUSE them.

> and maybe we should all see how it feels first.

Most of HOWER dog lovers are active mental
patients takin psychotropic drugs, tracy666.

> > At my wits end,

As usual. That's HOWE COME it's MENTAL ILLNESS.

> > I tried something that is controversial

HURTING her dogs, tricia666.

> > and I KNOW I'm going to get flamed for this,

Not here abHOWETS. HOWER dog lovers HURT their
dogs and are prHOWED of their ability as trainers.

> > but I really don't care.

That's part of the INSANITY. Ain't it, tricia666.

> > I had used a prong collar on her occasionally
> > in obedience training,

Just for the obedience part and the leave it command.

<snip>

> No flames here.

Of curse not! You're a dog abuser, tricia666.

> You did the best for your dog

tracy's dogs have OCD behavior problems BECAUSE
she HURTS them. HURTIN THEM MOORE DIDN'T
HEELP it only makes the dogs DEATHLY ILL.

> and helped fix some problems.

NO you simpleton it made her dogs AGGRESSIVE
and MOORE HYPERACTIVE.

> That's what it's all about.

INDEEDY.

[The Puppy Wizard]

HOWEDY vacationrenters.com,

"VacationRenters.com" <vande...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:qyQJb.216303$8y1.786200@attbi_s52...

>
> "Tracy Doyle" <tr...@unspam.rag-time.com> wrote in message
> news:3FF71D2B...@unspam.rag-time.com...
>

Tracy told you HOWE to HURT your dog
to break your dog's stress induced OCD.

> > "VacationRenters.com" wrote:

vacationrenters.com sez "THANK YOU!"

> > > We have a 1 yr old Golden Retriever.

All behavior problems are caused by mishandling.

> > >He has been well trained to do the
> > > usual, sit, place, come and all that good stuff.

Your "training" is what CAUSED this stress induced
MENTAL ILLNESS, vacationrenters.com.

> Ughhhh . I am afraid he has been doing this
> for some time ..

The PROBLEM isn't the light. The PROBLEM
is STRESS from TRAINING CRATING BRIBING
CHOKING and PUNISHING your dogs.

> the word engrained comes to mind!

Ingrained... means a long time habit.

> Drugs .. I think not .. this is a behavior not a
> chemical deficiency.

HOWER veterinary behaviorists rely on drugs
cause they only know HOWE to FORCE BRIBE
INTIMDATE PUNISH and CRATE dogs to train them.

> I have been working with him correcting,

YOU MEAN PUNISHING YOUR DOG.

> praising and distracting

No, don't give us that bullshit. YOU HURT
and INTIMIDATE your dogs like you do your kids.

> as much as possible,

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAA!!!

> tonight he was in the back of the truck,
> with a canopy on it, and was chasing
> lights all the way home ..

Good for him.

> I feel so bad for him ..

That so?

> just imagine being so fixated on something
> you can not catch!!

Like a well behaved dog?

> I appreciate all the advice from everyone ..

That so? You're replying to WON of the
cruelest most viciHOWES MENTAL CASES
we got on HOWER forum...

> I will continue to work with him

What you've DONE to him CAUSED this problem.

> and give his trainer a call,

Your TRAINER taught you HOWE to make
your dog a MENTAL CASE.

> see if he has some other suggestions as
> well that I might incorporate.

Your "TRAINER"is RESPONSIBLE for CAUSING THIS.

> We just bought 6 acres so I am gonna try to
> get him out there daily ..

You think giving the dog acreage is gonna
make your dog feel calm and safe?

> see if I can exercise it out of him!

THAT'S INSANE.

What your dog needs is an EXORCISM, not exercise.

> Thanks again to everyone!!

You're welcome!

> Tim

"Linda" <llindal...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:3c317fe4.03010...@posting.google.com...

> I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
> dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
> I do not know what started the problem but he came
> aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
> snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
> and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
> ad I took him with me everywhere.
>
> At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
> Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
> clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
> it was not working on his aggression problem.
> I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
> trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
>
> They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
> and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
> suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
> working as he was becoming more aggressive.
>
> I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
> away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
> on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
> use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
> I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
> ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
> LEASH", ETC looking for help.
>
> We finally went to Purdue University Small Animal Behavior
> Clinic and they said he had fear aggression, punishment
> would not work, use the gentle leader and when out walking
> and he got stressed have the people stop until he could get
> in control using treats,and work on clicker training.
>
> At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the
> gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he would
> not come when I called him and would run away when I tried
> to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
> neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and
> women who hasn't trained her dog."
>
> I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
> were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
> so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said I
> should give up on him and kill him but they would say
> "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
> responsible for him."

You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.

> As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
> going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
> Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
> Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
> He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
> not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
> The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
> I had been working for 18 months!
>
> Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
> from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
> I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
> blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
> can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
>
> I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
> -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
> looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
> on by.
>
> When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
> me like "you must be out of your mind"
>
> The results can make a believer!!!
>
> Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
> Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
> in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
>
> He just seemed to not notice any one.
>
> When people talked to him or ask his name he would
> look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
> I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
> enjoy life out in public.
>
> If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
> was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone.
>
> Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
> toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
>
> My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
> dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
> out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
>
> I know most people would have given up on him a long time
> ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
> but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
>
> I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

------- Message -----
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

[The Puppy Wizard]

HOWEDY sinofabitch,

"Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bt94qs$4huhv$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

>
> > Drugs .. I think not .. this is a behavior not a
> > chemical deficiency.
>

> You *do* understand, I hope, that odd
> behaviours are often CAUSED by
> chemical imbalances??

Those "chemical imbalances" are caused
by STRESS from MISHANDLING and return
to NORMAL as soon as we REMOVE the STRESS.

> My employee who was bipolar

You and your pals are MENTAL CASES.

> (aka "manic depressive") had a lot of
> problematical behaviours,

You're a mental case a liar and a dog abuser, sinofabitch.

> which got worse when he didn't take his medication.

That's got nuthin to do with the OP's problem, SHE
AIN'T NUTS, except she can't PROVE IT after writing
in here...

> Nobody with a grain of sense and an
> iota of education would have said "These
> are behaviours, not chemical deficiencies."

Your MENTALLY ILL PAL is MENTALLY ILL
cause he's been ABUSED by his abusers just
like YOU.

> And quite honestly,

BWEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE.
You don't know nuthin abHOWET HONESTY or you
wouldn't STILL BE MENTALLY ILL.

> from what you wrote, I can't see that you have any
> basis for making the above claim; your dog is, in
> your own words, "fixated",

OCD behavior problems are CAUSED by STRESS.

All the drugs in the world won't REMOVE THE STRESS
that CAUSES the "chemical imbalances."

> and you have not had him evaluated to determine
> whether or not he does in fact have OCD.

BWEEEAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

> > I feel so bad for him ..

So she comes HERE askin LIARS DOG ABUSERS
and MENTAL CASES who told her to jerk and choke
and drug her dog to MAKE IT FEEL GOOD???

> > just imagine being so fixated on something
> > you can not catch!!

The dog is trying to ESCAPE her FEARS.

> As I said- it sounds very much as if your dog
> does, indeed, have OCD.

IMAGINE? You mean like you and nessa
and shelly and a few other MENTAL CASES
who HURT dogs and LIE abHOWET it?

> Normal dogs don't usually "fixate" on unreal things.

THEY DO WHEN THEY'RE STRESSED.

> Do both the dog and yourself a favor,

The PROBLEM can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY.
FOR FREE. But you gotta STOP HURTING and
INTIMDATING and BRIBING the dog... cause THAT'S|
HOWE COME they GET OCD'S. Ask professor SCRUFF
SHAKE.

> and have him seen by a certified behaviourist.

BWEEEAHHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Here's the MENTAL CASES WHO'VE BEEN
IN TREATMENT WITH "CERTIFIED BEHAVIORISTS"

WORDS OF WISDOM from our own
Lynn Kosmakos

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

-----------------------------------------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

ROTATE YOUR MEDS!

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer

SEE? TOLD YA SO!

Here's lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's PARTNER:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

> I think you'll find that most are quite willing to
> discuss not only their programs,

YOU HURT and KILL DOGS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

> but others in your area that would be suitable for you.

Know what? The OP would do better askin a MENTAL
CASE off the street than relyin on you and you MENTALLY
ILL LYIN DOG ABUSIN PUNK THUG COWARDS:

> Lynn K.

>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

> (replies to the list please)

INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of The Puppy Wizard
don't want noWON to miss the FREAK PARADE:

From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com)
Subject: I am
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/02

a major bitch today

-Sunny

---------------

From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: got a question - how long before I'm an EX-cutter?
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/11/30

> I mean, I haven't cut since June. But am I a cutter
> or an ex-cutter now?
>
> And how long before I am an ex-cutter? anyone
> got any answers?
>
> I still get sort-of cutting urges, but I haven't had
> 'em very strongly.Just sort of vague thoughts in
> my head. But I think that's going to happen forever.
>
> Kind of like alcoholics who recover.
>
> I know that the urge will come back at times of stress,
> but I don't have to do it.
>
>so, when am I an ex-cutter?

Its been about 9 months since I last cut.

I consider myself a recovering self injurer.

I still get the urge at times.

And like an alcoholic, i could easily slide.

So, Im proud of me for being in recovery from cutting....

And I'm proud of you Laz for being in recovery

and Im proud of everyone else resisting the temptation.

Love, hope and caring to yall all

-Sunny

---------------

From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: is it self injury if:
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/03

>you pick at scabs and watch them bleed...
>
>you pick at hangnails and make them bleed...
>
>you pick at calluses on your feet until they bleed....
>
>you poke blisters making them bleed....

I dont know.
I wonder myself.
I do the same thing.
Im a self injurer and an obsessive compulsive.
I always thought it was picking from my OCD.

-Sunny

----------------

From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: I wish I was........
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/05

> sun...@aol.com (Sunni12) wrote:
>> important
>> needed
>> cared about
>> loved
>> wanted
>>
>> -Sunny
>>
>>
>You are all those things, Sunny...& more.
>
>But I'll give you a few more cyberhugs, anyway...
>
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SUNNY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
>
>Mary

Thanks. That was a really bad day when I wrote it.
Much better now.

Thanks

Sunny
who should do something about her PMS

RPD* MeNTally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03

NEW!!

LYNN K. 20 plus years on Lithium
LOIS E. 25 plus years on tricyclics

Hello Fans,

here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person
update, including our latest mentally unstable person,
Lois E. of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.

Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
RPD* Ment_ally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03

I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER (MANIC DEPRESSION) I ALSO CARE
ABOUT DOGS
COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING

WORDS OF WISDOM from our own
Lynn Kosmakos

=======================================

From: Chris Kosmakos (chri...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye

Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility
: for their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIM
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

-----------------------------------------

> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR... YOU
DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (ga...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
-------------------------------------

MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses.

I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.

Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING!
list as of 12/21/2003:

list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy)
Regulars Most of whom are women or homosexuals

RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
=============================================
=============================================

NESSA
NUTCASE
MVP (Most Valuable Psycho) of dog newsgroups

Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP

Nessa blames all the problems in her life
moston ADD ADHD Or some other empowering acronym
which encapsulates her futility for her

Her dog bagel, a large newf mix
has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives
a 2003 Toyota Matrix, owns a house in
suburban MD, recently got a raise/promotion
to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two
dogs. With help from non crazy regular
(Paulette) and witchcraft practicing regular
Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her
dogs for the time being. She is undergoing
training from Janet "Nice Abdominal Surgery
and getting Run Over for the Family Pet."
Her results have not been dramatic.

CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular
Leah helping Nessa

=============================

On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote

Nessa use...@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes, it's not
related to Bagel at all. I have
chronic major depression and I'm just having
a flare."

Leah asks
"Are you on any medication?"

Nessa responds

yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD.
I have been for over 10 years.

--nessa

Nessa is Fat as well as crazy
=============================
"For what it's worth...

I picked up 30 pounds when I started
Dilantin. I picked up (just recently) another
20 on risperidol.

I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and
now I am solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.

Sad part is, the side effects are worth it.
The positive effects
are too much to part with."

--nessa
============================

NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH
==============================

Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va.
He is at the Rosyln Metro Station. His name is
Martin Stein
1911 N Fort Myer Dr.
Suite 907
Arlington Va 22209
703-807-2471
email 75120...@compuserve.com

Marty is wonderful. He is really the best.
He has also given me permission to post his
infomation on this Newsgroup. If you call
him and see him by all means tell him Nessa
sent you.

--nessa
================================

ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS
=============================

from: Nessa (ne...@ix.netcom.com)

Hi,

I often have to rotate my stimulants.
You can become used to them and sometimes
need a different one for a while. Until I
got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and
Dexedrine every 3 months or so.

It is true that anti-depressants or
anti-anxiety pills will help with the
stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that
a switch from cylert to something else might
be in order.

warm thoughts,
Nessa
=============================

=============================================
=============================================

Lois E.
(of Gary and Lois fame)

Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for
approximately 25 years. This may be a record.
Husband is a cop but there is no evidence
that he beats the crap out of her, or that he
has for 25 years.

Had a traumatic experience as a child with a
horse running wild in the Pantry and living room.
In recent years, shot neighbor's dog from point
blank range while it was chewing on her pigmy goat,
teaching son to solve problems with the neighbor's
using shock and awe levels of violence."

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.

=============================================
=============================================

Kelly/
culprit

Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two
pitbulls, proving that Bill Gates does not
discriminate against crazy people or pit bull
owners.

psychotic features, panic and more. Coming
forward so that others like her will have the
strength to do the same. Like Charlie Wilkes,
she is one of our most entertraining regulars

Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally
about her mental illness/crazy problems.
Sally is being rude and condescending (as usual)
and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for
being crazy, aka wacked in the head

culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending
Mustang
Sally
-----------------------------------------------

I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!

"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an
illness, major depression with psychotic features
certainly is, panic disorder is too. and the
other stuff just makes it all the more fun.

i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to
accept it, because ignoring it wasn't working out
too well. i need to do that to make changes to my
life so that i can become healthy. and you say
you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing)
"people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them
consume their life"

you come across as though you would be able to
handle any of these illnesses, and anyone who
can't is just copping out. well we're all
different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my
problems. i tried it for years, and believe me,
it didn't work very well."

-kelly aka culprit
systems engineer @ Microsoft
----------------------------------------------

=============================================
=============================================

MaryBeth
FMVP (former most valuable psycho)

(super psycho bitch
lunatic queen of the
mentally fucked in
the head)

Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,

MaryBeth has suffered from or been:

TIDAL WAVES OF PMS

suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...

MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell

I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH

"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."

"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.

--All the best,
MaryBeth

DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER

"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."

"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."

--MaryBeth

ME NOT SO HORNY

"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."

--MaryBeth

NEW TO GROUP

"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
reported none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"

--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>

WASTED 10 YEARS

"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))

--MaryBeth

WAS HORRIBLE

"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"

--MaryBeth

=============================================
=============================================

Theresa Willis

(paxil, depression, robot displacement)
Theresa is a gang banger who comes out
of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly
Victim is usually Leah, but may be a
random person.

=============================================
=============================================

shelly
couvrette

Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil
for mental illness, but claims she does
not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than
any other female in all dog newsgroups

(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself (see below). Still thinks
of herself as a five year old ballerina
despite the fact that she is a fat
adult in her mid thirties.

PAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN FOR BONUS COVERAGE

=============================================
=============================================

lynn
kosmakos

RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1

(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer. Murders
dogs because of insurance rates
Her brother was attacked by a Golden
Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily
trainable dogs. Condemns dogs to
death who are easily trainable
with her "evaluations."
Is nice to people in person, but
her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with
extreme clarity.

Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when
they chase deer. Sees no other
option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked
with a shock collar to keep him from
chasing deer.

has been on lithium for approximately
20 years. Zoloft for an undetermined
number of years

1200mg LITHIUM
50mg ZOLOFT

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

From: Chris Kosmakos (chri...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Prozac - Good medication or no?

I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF

"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems.
I would have to trust my vet and behaviorist
a lot, and be very sure that I had exhausted
every other option before I used Prozac to
deal with a dog problem - and I take a
similar drug, Zoloft, myself."

Lynn K.

=============================================
=============================================

Leah

Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her
chronic mental problems. Leah is
improving as a dog trainer and wants
to open her own training/boarding
kennel soon and write a book.

This drives her fellow
mentally ill regulars nuts (read shelly
Lynn K.),
especially if Leah succeeds while other
loonies continue to sit on their fat
behinds

Leah is a relatively stable crazy person
but she just might be the agent that drives
others to jump off of a cliff

=============================================
=============================================

Tara Green

Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York
City left rpd* claiming that she could
not afford internet access and/or a computer,
but her story is of value nonetheless

was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as
chemical simply because of our too human
ability to prolong the impact of the
causal situations indefinitely"

Sounds like more denial, see leah

Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances

TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:

"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"

"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people,
but they do exist."

aka, tara has problems with both

=============================================
=============================================

Kevin
Michael
Vail

various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Kevin is a homosexual but there is no
evidence that this is the cause of him
being crazy

=============================================
=============================================

Furpaw

(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring
and nondescript crazy person

=============================================
=============================================

Chris Jung

(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)

another very boring nutcase

=============================================
=============================================

Charlie
Wilkes

drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash
as a business consultant. Triumphing over
adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog (very much unlike Leah)
One of our most lucid regulars, despite
(or maybe because of?) a penchant for phat
philly blunts.

=============================================
=============================================

Karen
DuChateaux
aka Karibear

suffered from clinical depression for years
until some drug or something brought her out
of it. Some of her best friends "are
certifiable" and have various degrees of
psychoses. Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.

=============================================
=============================================

Mike
"DumbOxDumb"
Dufort

threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)

=============================================
=============================================

Jim "Brain
Shivers"
Sabatke

Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has had
trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting
the "brain shivers"

From: Jim Sabatke (jsab...@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST

EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.

Good luck!

Jim

"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."

Jim

"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."

Jim

=============================================
=============================================

<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific to
you,
if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward, we can help
each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness is nothing
to
be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a defective brain
which
may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or
robot without your being aware of it).

Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
been
added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections and
remove
you from the crazy person list.

===========================================

mental health weekly

--
This has been a production of
dogtv.com networks
your world leader in dog entertraining

this is michael
reporting live...
from dogtv.com networks
http://dogtv.com

A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.

========================================================
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING

EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED

"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
--shelly couvrette

STILL VET SHOPPING

"<raises hand> i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
*way* too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."

--shelly couvrette

THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE

"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."

--shelly couvrette

POSITIVELY STARVED

"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"

--shelly couvrette

WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR
WIDDLE PRECIOUS?

"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
*realize* that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."

--shelly couvrette

JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom

FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF, BITCH
--shelly

"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."

--shelly couvrette

NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY

NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================

There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve their
dogs
out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.

shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale

Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about
measuring out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny
measuring cup, or
counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin that she gives her
dogs
when they give her the "I'm Starving" routine. When grandma tried
to
give Hattie a snack, shelly probably went apeshit, because it was
in
violation of her Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that
goes into her widdle precious' mouth.

shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser

------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list

copyright 2003
dogtv.com networks
you are free to reproduce this list

[The Puppy Wizard]

HOWEDY paula,

"Paula" <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote in message
news:ocpfvv8rb5qoc6lk2...@4ax.com...
> On 04 Jan 2004 02:01:06 GMT, trici...@aol.com (Tricia9999)
wrote:
>
tracy doyle:
> > >So, off came the GL ... IMHO, some dogs do

> > >just fine with it and some can't deal with it.

So you'll HURT the dog to find HOWET.

> > > Mine couldn't.

Right... but that's O.K.

> > > Many don't adjust to the GL

That's on accHOWENT of you mishandle the dog.

> >.> A few months later, I accidentally took one of her pills.

Accidentally? That's hugely unlikely.

> > > That was an eye-opener.

tracy is a dog abuser a liar and a mental case.

> > > I was giving her two, twice a day. She weighs
> > > about 36 pounds. I took one, and I weigh one
> > > heck of a lot more than she does. It hit me like

> > > a ton of bricks - I was totally buzzed. I almost
> > > had my S.O. take me to the emergency room!

They'd of locked tracy up in a rubber room
nekked except for these paper slippers...

> > > That's mighty powerful stuff

It's for MENTAL ILLNESS.

> > > and I was both nervous and drowsy at the same time

tracy is a MENTAL CASE.

> >Fascinating.

INDEEDY! So's tricia666.

> > We are drugging our kids and dogs and

> > maybe we should all see how it feels first.

That's INSANE.

> You can't necessarily do that.

Ahhh, the voice of REASON!

> People and animals react differently
> to different medications.

Yeah,

> A classic case is ADHD.

Which you know all abHOWET.

<snip>

> If you feel dopey and your dog acts dopey and
> drugged, then that is probably a pretty good indication,

That you've mishandled and abused your dog
to MENTAL ILLNESS.

> but you probably could have figured that out
> just by watching the dog with and without medication.

No. We could figger that HOWET by NOT HURTING him.

> I think a better moral for the story is not to
> decide drugs or no drugs or to try it yourself
> and then assume that your animal feels the
> same on it as you do. Watch the dog with and
> without medication and see if the dog seems to
> do better with or without.

You mean instead of just NOT HURTING your dogs
noMOORE, paula?

> If the meds are not working,

Anti anxiHOWESNESS meds ain't
gonna work if you continue to ABUSE
your dogs someMOORE.

> don't assume that because it is
> a vet that the one thing prescribed
> is the only or best thing.

Your vet doesn't know nuthin abHOWET
behavior and trainin or he wouldn't NEED
to prescribe DRUGS for BEHAVIOR problems
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> Ask about other medications and/or doses
> and try to get maximum benefit with minimum
> side effect.

Instead of learning HOWE to handle and train
your dogs withHOWET HURTING them?

> I have a dog who is nutty about flashlights

Purdue sez OCD'S are CAUSED BY STRESS.

> and reflected light (the sun shining off a watch face,
> for example). She goes nutso barking at it and looking
> at me and barking at it and will chase it if she can.

Your dog has GONE MENTAL.

> I have not had a laser pointer anywhere near
> her as that would seem to be asking for trouble.

Of curse you could USE IT to EXXXTINGUISH
the problem IF you knew HOWE. You don't, you
only know HOWE to FORCE and INTIMIDATE
and DRUG behaviors of the domestic puppy
dog you fear cause you don't have the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit them even after The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students tell you HOWE they done it EZ
GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE.

> We keep flashlights and flashes of light to a
> minimum if we can, but you can't stop the sun
> from shining.

If you leave your dog in the HOWES HOWEtside
of ITS crate the sun will cause IT to destroy your
HOWES.

> I hadn't thought of OCD,

You're not the brightest bulb in the chandolier.
Seems you know a little TOO MUCH abHOWET
psychotropic meds, paula. You're a MENTAL CASE.

> though she does have some other behaviors
> that could possibly be indicative of OCD.

INDEED. That's on accHOWENT of you abuse
your dogs, paula.

> We have managed fine by trying to
> minimize the flashing that she is exposed
> to and handling her episodes, when they
> happen,

That so? Has avoiding lights and shadows heelped?

> by telling her it's okay

That so?

> and to knock it off, like we do for barking.

You mean YOU INTIMIDATE HER.

> She seems to be trying to protect us

You've intimidated your dog into being fearful.

> from the lights,

Of lights... sumpthin YOU CAN'T CONTROL.

That's no accident.

> which would make sense if she is afraid of them

Your dogs are AFRAID of EVERY THING cause
YOU ABUSE them.

> like Tracy's dogs are afraid of shadows.

tracy HURTS her dogs.

> She reacts to things she is afraid of with a
> combination of protective behavior and getting
> close,

You've intimidated and abused your dogs into INSANITY.

> but not too close, if you know what I mean.

You been rotating your meds?

> She did this with men when she was afraid
> of them, too. If we couldn't manage it like we
> have been, I think I would try medication before
> correction

You mean PAIN and INTIMIDATION.

> for most people because most people have
> a whole lot of trouble with timing

You mean knowing PRECISELY
WHEN to HURT your dog, paula?

> and timing could make or break correction

You mean HURTING dogs, paula?

> for a fear or OCD issue.

RIGHT...

> THere is also the risk that correction

You mean HURTIN your dog.

> will stop the barking or other behavior, but
> will actually increase the dog's aversive
> reaction to and fear of the event that is causing it.

And other seemingly non related often worse
behaviors, as tracy REPORTED. Remember, paula?
Or are you still havin brain freezes?

> Not only do the shadows mean danger in and
> of themselves,

That's malarkey, paula. The dog is NUTS. The
dog ain't AFRAID of the shadows... the dog has
been ABUSED, paula, but not by shadows.

> but now they also mean collar corrections are coming.

You mean jerking and choking on a pronged
spiked pinch choke collar or burnin IT with
a shock collar.

> If it is truly OCD or anxiety,

They're the same same, paula.

> that can make it hell to live in that dog's head

So it'd be better to MURDER the dog like your
pal tara o. aka tee did to her DEAD DOG Summer.

> and medication can make that dog's
> head a much more pleasant place to be.

That so, paula? Like it heelps your head to be
a MOORE pleasant place to be, paula?

> I am not saying that corrections can't work,

You mean HURTIN the dog as you ordinarily do
to make IT feel calm and safe and sHOWEND, eh paula?

> but I think that it is not likely to be
> effective for most people

You mean most people who don't WANT to
HURT their dogs, paula?

> and may actually make the dog's life far worse,

You hurt your dogs, paula. That's HOWE COME
they GET OCD behavior problems.

> even if the outward appearances are much better.

INDEED.

> If you want to treat OCD behaviorally and without
> meds, there are ways to do that,

DO TELL?

> and I think the distraction of obedience work

You mean MOORE jerking and choking and bribing
and intimidating and withholding...

> and heavy praise for it are good ways,

The EXXXPERTS sez you can't prasie a FEAR behavior
cause you'll REINFORCE IT. They're RIGHT, you know.

> but I would still work with a behaviorist on that

Your behaviorist gives medication and recommends
HURTING dogs to train them.

> as it is a complex issue.

No it ain't. All you gotta do is STOP HURTIN THEM.

> If the behaviorist is making no sense

Your behaviorist's methods CAUSED this.

> or is landing you with a drugged dog

The dog don't need DRUGS.

> and not much else,

Your dog got the same same same same PROBLEM,
remember, paula? You're tellin the OP to do what you
done TO GET the same same problems.

> I would go to another one before giving up on that
> approach all together.

HOWE long you been in mental health care treatment, paula?

> If I were to give up on behaviorists all together,

They don't have a very good HISTORY of SUCCESS, paula.

> I would work with a good trainer

It's TRAINING that CAUSES this, paula.

> to get a better reading of the behavior (anxiety or not,

You're a MENTAL CASE, paula.

> cues and triggers, etc)

Usually it's PUNISHMENT and INTIMIDATION
and CONFINEMENT to a box and bribery.

> and to work on great timing

You mean to HURT the dog.

> rather than try to correct my way out of the
> situation on my own.

As you've been doin with your own OCD dogs.

> Paula

Here's HOWE COME dogs GET OCD'S:

> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's YOU,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.

> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like
a raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT
on his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked
pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with
the heel of your palm.

"BethF" <da...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us3...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank" <flma...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.02061...@posting.google.com...
> > dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20020610173326...@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" bri...@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
> > All of it?
> > Ear pinching?
> > Shock collars?
> > Spiked chokers?
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
:
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.

"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?

matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.
He's a MENTAL CASE.

Isn't that true, Marilyn?

Of course not, but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...

> >Di,

> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:

> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.

> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43...@earthlink.net>
rhur...@earthlink.net writes:

>> -snip headers etc.

>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?

> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com

>Richard

Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:

http://www.powells.com/

Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.

Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,

========================================================

Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its
face for 5
seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could cause. Then
he starts
to work the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog
makes his
grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the dog is
suspended
in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.

The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

[The Puppy Wizard]

HOWEDY melanie,

"Melanie L Chang" <mlc...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:bt8jsc$acdt$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> Tricia9999 (trici...@aol.com) wrote:
>
> : Fascinating. We are drugging our kids and dogs

You mean when we ain't beatin them in the
face with a shepherd's crook?:

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

> : and maybe we should all see how it feels first.

That's dangerHOWES and illegal.

> I don't know how useful that would be because
> if you don't have the sort of condition

You mean MENTAL ILLNESS.

> that the drug is intended for,

Like separation anxiety and fear of men
like your dog Solo who's been on psychotropics
and treatment at UofPA behavior clinic for three
years?

Solo was taken off his medications when you was
in Europ and he was boarded cause he's NORMAL
when you're not ABUSING him.

> it isn't going to affect you in the same way.

You HURT and INTIMIDATE your dog, melanie.

> In this case, the drug was clearly inappropriate for
> the dog anyway because of the effects it had on her
> behavior.

You mean cause it DIDN'T WORK just like it
DIDN'T WORK for your dog Solo.

> Although I think Tracy's is an interesting case study,

tracy is a DOG ABUSER and a MENTAL CASE.

> considering the large amount of data out there
> on the efficacy of meds behavior modification
> for true OCD in dogs

The drug companies only claim 15% success
when given with behavior modification.

> (see the ref cited by Melissa in an
> earlier post) I hope that the original
> poster explores that route.

That's INSANE.

So's this:

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows
function.
> Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
> University of Pennsylvania | -- Louis Sullivan
> mlc...@sas.upenn.edu |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
---------

The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >