outed
Loopy
Yesterday, as a favor to a friend, I made a delivery to a local potter. It
was a sketch I'd done of two birds, for a bowl susan had commissioned. it
was nothing extraordinary or even very good, but I think the potter had
been expecting something amateurish, because she looked mildly surprised.
"oh, that's nice," she said. "would you mind if I used it for other
bowls?" I told her no, of course I don't mind. it's always nice to get
compliments like that but it sets off cascades of guilt and angst every
time it happens. this time was no exception, and it comes on the heels of
a much more intense episode a couple of weeks ago.
My parents were in town helping me move five years of accumulated
furniture, books, mementos, and junk out of my little apartment. this was
the Big Move. I'm leaving ithaca as soon as I finish my thesis, and most
of my stuff went to my parents' house. in the meantime I'm staying at a
friend's house, until I finish or she throws me out, whichever comes
first.
My father and I were downstairs dealing with my coat closet, when my
mother came down the stairs, holding my old sketchbook in front of her
like a sacred scripture. (I can't do her french accent justice with
creative spelling, so you'll have to imagine it.) "Bill, you have to look
at this! you have to see how good she is!" I realized then that I don't
think my relatives have seen a single thing I've drawn or painted since
... senior year of high school. ten years. whoops. My dad cleared a space
on the sofa and sat down with the book, slowly leafing through the pages.
it was my sketchbook from senior year of college, and he recognized the
likenesses of several of my friends. "Have you ever shown these to
anyone?" I said, "oh, yeah. lots of people. " "what do they say?" "they
all say my stuff is really good." The professor for that particular art
course berated me one day, telling me i should have been taking art
courses for all of my undergrad career instead of last semester senior
year. actually i've been berated a number of times by different people.
this time it was my dad's turn.
"have you ever considered pursuing this?" "Well, yes, but I can't exactly
make a living at it." "what about doing medical illustration? you're
getting an anatomy degree." I tried medical illustration, and I can do it
with relatively little difficulty. I even signed up for a course in it.
that lasted for a week (two sessions) before it drove me nuts and I
switched to watercolor landscape painting, where i had a ball. Scientific
illustration is meticulous and dry and literal. basically, it epitomizes
everything I hate about scientific research. I told this to my dad. he
then said, "Hmmm, well, what about commercial art?" "can't. totally
different. no talent for it." "is there something else you could do?" "not
really, other than trying to make it as a fine artist." with a little more
training and a lot of hard work, i might be able to establish a name for
myself and sell some landscapes or portraits, but I'd need someone to
support me for a few years. I suppose I could also paint on the side,
while i work at a real job, but that strategy has worked so well that i've
done about five paintings in the last four years. and all of those were
done when i was on vacation at a friend's summer house in Michigan, where
i had nothing to do and nothing to distract me.
i feel like such a loser. I know i should try harder to do artwork
eveninggs and weekends. maybe it's grad school that's done it to me. I've
felt incredible guilt at doing anything that wasn't 'serious', i.e.,
related to science. this guilt is partly due to what i grew up hearing at
home. my cousin was trained as an artist, but neither he nor his sculptor
ex-wife were able to make a career out of it. they had three kids that
they had to support by working at menial jobs -- he as a manager at a
video store, she as a retail clerk. for years i heard my parents and other
relatives go off on how foolish christian was. A few years later, I
realize that I misconstrued the thrust of my dad's rants. his main
criticism was that christian spent years and years in postgraduate classes
in art, living on grants from the canadian government, and that the school
was neither encouraging nor preparing him to actually make a living at
this. but still, i'd managed to internalize a doing-art-is-for-flakes
attitude.
so now, what can i do, wait to win the lottery? decide between the guilt
of not doing something 'serious', and the guilt of wasting a talent some
people would do anything for? or wonder whether having a talent means i'm
morally obliged to use it?
--
Lucie Melahn there are no handles on a horse head
lm...@cornell.edu THERE ARE NO HANDLES ON A HORSE HEAD
Chris
In article <lmm5-25089...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
lm...@cornell.edu "Loopy" writes:
[snip all but the bottom line]
>
> so now, what can i do, wait to win the lottery? decide between the guilt
> of not doing something 'serious', and the guilt of wasting a talent some
> people would do anything for? or wonder whether having a talent means i'm
> morally obliged to use it?
>
Science is no more "serious" than art, no more nor less meaningful, no more
nor less worthwhile. It may be more lucrative but that is a different issue.
Sounds like you have a variety of talents. Given finite resources, it just is
not possible to use all of them to their utmost potential. Any moral obligation
would be discharged whichever one or combination of them you decided to use.
But, of course, there would probably still be a feeling of guilt.
Standard issue existential angst. I know of no way round that.
--
Chris
Jennifer Faucher
lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) wrote:
[...]
>or wonder whether having a talent means i'm
>morally obliged to use it?
My brother sincerely believes this. He told a friend yesterday, one
of his most ardent protogees, that I'm "headed down the wrong path"
because I'm a math major. Whatever talents I may have are, admittedly,
not mathematical, but I don't see where the moral error is. Paul
believes people are "put on this earth" to do certain things, and
we must listen to God and/or Jerry Garcia to find out what those
things are. I don't care much what he believes-- he's charismatic
and intelligent enough to have made quite an impression on several
people-- but his attitude is bafflingly judgemental.
Jennifer
Loopy
In article <4vqvm3$d...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Jennifer
Faucher <Bill-Fl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) wrote:
> >or wonder whether having a talent means i'm
> >morally obliged to use it?
>
> My brother sincerely believes this. He told a friend yesterday, one
> of his most ardent protogees, that I'm "headed down the wrong path"
> because I'm a math major. Whatever talents I may have are, admittedly,
> not mathematical, but I don't see where the moral error is.
I'm of the same mind as your brother to a certain extent, but it's more
for pragmatic reasons than some nebulous idea of fate or destiny. you
must admit, it's reasonable to ask, if you are not particularly
talented in mathematics, why on earth would you major in it?
David O'Bedlam
On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Loopy wrote to "Bill-Flag-City":
> > My brother sincerely believes this. He told a friend yesterday, one
> > of his most ardent protogees, that I'm "headed down the wrong path"
> > because I'm a math major. Whatever talents I may have are, admittedly,
> > not mathematical, but I don't see where the moral error is.
>
> you must admit, it's reasonable to ask, if you are not particularly
> talented in mathematics, why on earth would you major in it?
Near as I can tell Jennifer IS talented at math, enough to have a decent
math-gab with oh Paulie or Chuckie, but she doesn't think of herself that
way. It kinda irks me when people do that -- as if I were to believe I've
no talents at either writing or sex. It's just plain wrong, as in morally
AND factually wrong. (Stop it!)
Y'all angstresses in general need way more self-esteem. Line up!
TheDavid
Kelly Reeves-Thomas
Lucie,
Immerse yourself in your art! Do it now, before the years pass while
you wonder "if maybe, just maybe..."
Kelly
David O'Bedlam
Hey! I feel that way about my unfulfilled dreams of world conquest!
DerDavid
j.
lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) wrote:
#so now, what can i do, wait to win the lottery? decide between the
#guilt of not doing something 'serious', and the guilt of wasting a
#talent some people would do anything for? or wonder whether having a
#talent means i'm morally obliged to use it?
#Lucie Melahn
you should ENJOY your talent, not feel obligated to make a living with
it, dear. you'll do to yourself with your artwork the same thing you
did to yourself with grad school. DON"T DO IT.
people have to give up this notion of having an "important" or
"serious" career. fuck. if its paying the bills and putting food on
the table, its damned serious enough for the moment. the things you
are doing AWAY from the day to day work grind are more important than
your "serious" profession anyhow. the contributions you make to
mankind are going to be made outside of 9 to 5, not sitting at a desk
or standing in a lab somewhere, thinking your work is "important."
my littlest brother is a fabulous artist. has won awards, had his
paintings hanging in D.C... sells one now and then, has a show here
and there, has even arranged for studio and display space. his work is
breathtaking (i know, i know, i'm slightly biased), some of its
political (my influence, ahahahaha), some of it is charming in its
simplicity. in a just world, he'd be feted and awarded and never have
to work a day in his life.
he works as a chef in an italian restaurant, and amuses himself by
putting the family recipes on the menu.
j.
i want that painting he did of RFK and i want it now
"Lure him outside and chop off his head. I would." --Methos, "Through a Glass Darkly"
CupCaked
id...@asuvm.inre.asu.edu (j.) wrote:
>lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) wrote:
>#so now, what can i do, wait to win the lottery? decide between the
>#guilt of not doing something 'serious', and the guilt of wasting a
>#talent some people would do anything for? or wonder whether having a
>#talent means i'm morally obliged to use it?
>people have to give up this notion of having an "important" or
>"serious" career. fuck. if its paying the bills and putting food on
>the table, its damned serious enough for the moment. the things you
>are doing AWAY from the day to day work grind are more important than
>your "serious" profession anyhow. the contributions you make to
>mankind are going to be made outside of 9 to 5, not sitting at a desk
>or standing in a lab somewhere, thinking your work is "important."
Hey, I'd love to be a Pulitzer Prize-winning
photo-journalist, but I'm not. The bills get paid on time
doing what I'm doing at the office, and there's still time
for the darkroom and the other things I really enjoy.
I'm not so self-centered to believe that my art MUST be
appreciated by the masses. I just do it and have a good
time with it. If anything ever comes out of it, that's
grand. I'd be both delighted AND surprised.
- CupCaked - http://www2.cybernex.net/~frambois/index.html
Paul Bennett
Lucie Melahn :
>so now, what can i do, wait to win the lottery? decide between the guilt
>of not doing something 'serious', and the guilt of wasting a talent some
>people would do anything for? or wonder whether having a talent means i'm
>morally obliged to use it?
i too, spent some time as an amature artist in a different major
at cornell. i miss ithaca, but i don't think i missed a career.
i'm a boring engineer now, but i make alot of money.
and money is what people value in this society, not talent.
they may say, "oh how beautiful", but they are confused, and no, they
don't want to buy it.
--
Paul Bennett (817)763-4217
ben...@mps.lmtas.lmco.com
http://www.flash.net/~aronna =8]
Jennifer Faucher
'David O'Bedlam' <thed...@clark.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Loopy wrote to "Bill-Flag-City":
>
>
>> > My brother sincerely believes this. He told a friend yesterday, one
>> > of his most ardent protogees, that I'm "headed down the wrong path"
>> > because I'm a math major. Whatever talents I may have are, admittedly,
>> > not mathematical, but I don't see where the moral error is.
>>
>> you must admit, it's reasonable to ask, if you are not particularly
>> talented in mathematics, why on earth would you major in it?
Well, I enjoy it.
>Near as I can tell Jennifer IS talented at math,
Compared to most people? I suppose so. But comapred to other math majors,
I'm mediocre at best. And I probably would have been more successful
doing something else.
Jennifer
Jamie Elizabeth Fend
In article <lmm5-25089...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
Loopy <lm...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>"have you ever considered pursuing this?" "Well, yes, but I can't exactly
>make a living at it."
wow. i am jealous that your dad said that. when i told my parents that
i wanted to pursue art as a career, they did everything within their
power to try and stop it.
while they tell me that they think i am good, i think perhaps they don't
really believe it. neither do i.
>
>i feel like such a loser. I know i should try harder to do artwork
>eveninggs and weekends. maybe it's grad school that's done it to me. I've
>felt incredible guilt at doing anything that wasn't 'serious'
i feel this at all times. but i do it anyway. i've found that if i'm
not doing any sort of art work, i go insane, and i really couldn't handle
that at all. even pushing art to the side makes me feel a bit jittery.
so, i do what my parents always dreaded i would do, and hope maybe for
once i'll prove them wrong.
jamie
DGollub
CupCaked wrote:
> I'm not so self-centered to believe that my art MUST be
> appreciated by the masses. I just do it and have a good
> time with it. If anything ever comes out of it, that's
> grand. I'd be both delighted AND surprised.
If it doesn't hurt at least some when you don't communicate with your art,
you're not really a dedicated artist in that genre. A little bit of ego
attachment guarantees your seriousness. Of course you can tell yourself that
you intend to communicate with a select audience, or with posterity. But
then you have angst as to whether you really will-- whether you're really as
good as you think you are. That angst is not sufficient to make an
outstanding artist. But it's necessary.
DGollub
published poet, whoop-ee-doo
--
Vote the Family Values Ticket.
GOTTI & MANSON IN 96!
Loopy
: I'm not so self-centered to believe that my art MUST be
: appreciated by the masses. I just do it and have a good
: time with it. If anything ever comes out of it, that's
: grand. I'd be both delighted AND surprised.
sharing your work with others need not be self-centered. for some of us,
showing it to other people is a necessary part of the process. it only
becomes self-centered when you do it only for the accolades.
--
Lucie Melahn i repeat myself when under stress
lm...@cornell.edu I REPEAT MYSELF WHEN UNDER STRESS
Chris
>
> you should ENJOY your talent, not feel obligated to make a living with
> it, dear. you'll do to yourself with your artwork the same thing you
> did to yourself with grad school. DON"T DO IT.
>
using a talent != making a living with it
--
Chris
Dr. Irony
id...@asuvm.inre.asu.edu (j.) writes:
>lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) wrote:
Ah. My two favorite redheads. How could I resist following this one up.
>#so now, what can i do, wait to win the lottery? decide between the
>#guilt of not doing something 'serious', and the guilt of wasting a
>#talent some people would do anything for? or wonder whether having a
>#talent means i'm morally obliged to use it?
>#Lucie Melahn
>you should ENJOY your talent, not feel obligated to make a living with
>it, dear. you'll do to yourself with your artwork the same thing you
>did to yourself with grad school. DON"T DO IT.
>people have to give up this notion of having an "important" or
>"serious" career. fuck. if its paying the bills and putting food on
>the table, its damned serious enough for the moment. the things you
>are doing AWAY from the day to day work grind are more important than
>your "serious" profession anyhow. the contributions you make to
>mankind are going to be made outside of 9 to 5, not sitting at a desk
>or standing in a lab somewhere, thinking your work is "important."
Don't listen to her, Loops. She's an evil ultra-liberal. And besides,
the minimalist thang is outta style. You've got to BE somebody. You
only go around once, so you must make something of yourself. You
must achieve great things or you'll regret, maybe not today, but tomorrow
and for the rest of your life. Imagine at the moment of death, when your
life flashes before you. You look back on it all and lament because you
did accomplish great things. You just pissed your one and only life away.
What could be worse? The ultra-liberals, they want everyone to be
underachievers. They want all to sink to the lowest common denominator.
That way, in their own twisted, perverted minds, all are equal. In
reality, it just makes people easier to control and manipulate for their
own selfish gains. Well, I say NO. Stop now. Rebel! Dare to be somebody!
Dare to make a difference!
>j.
>i want that painting he did of RFK and i want it now
Would you settle for a replica of my black velvet Nixon?
Chuck
--
Chuck "THE mindless, heartless conservative"
j.
Chris <Ch...@railton.demon.co.uk> wrote:
#using a talent != making a living with it
#--
#Chris
i disagree. "using" a talent does not equal making money with a
talent.
no wonder the world is so fucked up. we can't even be creative and
talented without a monetary important attached to it.
bah.
j.
Chris
> Chris <Ch...@railton.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> #using a talent != making a living with it
>
> #--
> #Chris
>
> i disagree. "using" a talent does not equal making money with a
^^^
> talent.
>
That's what I thought I just said. Maybe I'd better stick to words.
--
Chris
j.
c...@feenix.metronet.com (Dr. Irony) wrote:
#Ah. My two favorite redheads. How could I resist following this one
up.
ha. flattery won't get you anywhere HERE. is it working for you there,
luce?
#Don't listen to her, Loops. She's an evil ultra-liberal. And besides,
#the minimalist thang is outta style. You've got to BE somebody. You
#only go around once, so you must make something of yourself. You
#must achieve great things or you'll regret, maybe not today, but
#tomorrow and for the rest of your life.
oh oh. he's been watching his tape of "Casablanca" again.
#Imagine at the moment of death, when your
#life flashes before you. You look back on it all and lament because
#you did accomplish great things.
if your life is flashing, how long are you gonna have to lament? 30
seconds or so?
#You just pissed your one and only life away. What could be worse?
you have it backwards. what could be better? pissed your life away,
having a good time, not having to sell out to do things that other
people say you must do to be considered 'important' even tho it makes
you miserable and disgusted with yourself, not having to be constantly
judged as to whether or not you are 'worthy' or not by people whose
opinions you don't even respect.... who the hell wants that kind of
life?
republicans. what a bunch of stuffed shirt sticks up their asses
hypocrits.
#The ultra-liberals, they want everyone to be
#underachievers.
hey, if you can achieve peace of mind, what the hell else matters. so,
you "achieve" a big house in the burbs, drive a big fast car, pay a
big fat mortgage and a big fat car payment with big fat insurance
premiums, go to your 9 to 5 job in the shark infested waters of
corporate america, where you are viewed as a super achiever, then you
go home every night and swig your ulcer medication out of the bottle
and fall asleep watching leave it to beaver reruns because that's the
way things SHOULD be.
#>j.
#>i want that painting he did of RFK and i want it now
#Would you settle for a replica of my black velvet Nixon?
i would, in fact, like a replica of your black velvet nixon. i need a
new dart board.
#Chuck "THE mindless, heartless conservative"
j.
THE knee jerk bleeding heart liberal
"I don't care if he's dead, I still want to IMPEACH NIXON"
DGollub
Dr. Irony wrote:
> Would you settle for a replica of my black velvet Nixon?
black velvet Nixon
BLACK VELVET NIXON
DGollub
Ja, _das_ ist die Angst!
CupCaked
DGollub <dgo...@sirius.com> wrote:
>CupCaked wrote:
>> I'm not so self-centered to believe that my art MUST be
>> appreciated by the masses. I just do it and have a good
>> time with it. If anything ever comes out of it, that's
>> grand. I'd be both delighted AND surprised.
>If it doesn't hurt at least some when you don't communicate with your art,
>you're not really a dedicated artist in that genre. A little bit of ego
>attachment guarantees your seriousness.
That's just it. Fifteen-twenty years ago, I WAS serious,
then I had to earn a living, and now THAT'S how my ego gets
stroked.
That kind of art has become a second class citizen in my
life, where it rightly should be now. My desire of that kind
of notoriety and/or greatness has matured and taken on a
different focus.
I've also discovered over the years that there are different
types of what a young art student (me) first called *art*.
There are many gratifying means to distinguish oneself, and
it sometimes just takes some time to determine what they
might be.
Elena Barker
Jennifer Faucher <Bill-Fl...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Compared to most people? I suppose so. But comapred to other math majors,
> I'm mediocre at best. And I probably would have been more successful
> doing something else.
Are you doing quite well at the maths courses you take? That is,
after all, the acid test at college.
If you're not confident in your abilities, you will probably feel
less able than those who are. Being able to talk confidently about a
subject gives the impression of competence and knowledge, even when
you're not saying anything particularly amazing.
I know I felt stupid at college next to people who could chatter on
and give the impression of ability - even people whom I knew fine
well to be less intelligent and able than I, even when I suspected
that what they were saying was incorrect. In my lack of faith in
myself, I could not objectively compare.
Still can't, as a matter of fact. When have I ever claimed that I'm
not messed up?
While we're on the subject of talents, I'd love to be a musician,
play in a band, do some shows. I have the musical talent, enough
technical ability. What I don't have, or at least I don't think I
have, is the courage or the drive, the bottle to seek people out and
meet them and get them to like me and work with me. Takes more than
pure talent to be an artist of any kind, I'm too scared and I don't
care passionately enough, so it's mostly a solitary habit.
Obtained a mandolin today. Same tuning (GDAE) as my tenor banjo so I
know the chords and have been having a good strum. I do enjoy making
music, it makes me happy and that's the important thing. I don't see
any moral obligations. Well, unless you're so bad at what you do you
actually cause people pain - like most street performers!
-El-
--
Elena, Lorelei of Strathbogie
----elena....@zetnet.co.uk
j.
Chris <Ch...@railton.demon.co.uk> wrote:
#That's what I thought I just said. Maybe I'd better stick to words.
#--
#Chris
i apologize. (write this down, because it never happens)
hey, i didn't know that the "!" was secret computer code for
something. i'm a liberal arts major. we're busy psychoanalyzing each
other and interpreting our doodles. we don't know about "!"
j.
evil smiley face here
kefed
On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:20:21 GMT, id...@asuvm.inre.asu.edu (j.) wrote:
>people have to give up this notion of having an "important" or
>"serious" career. fuck. if its paying the bills and putting food on
>the table, its damned serious enough for the moment. the things you
>are doing AWAY from the day to day work grind are more important than
>your "serious" profession anyhow. the contributions you make to
>mankind are going to be made outside of 9 to 5, not sitting at a desk
>or standing in a lab somewhere, thinking your work is "important."
Yes, j. wisely knows the secret on this one. It took me a while and
much angst to find it out but it's true. "A Big Job" is not what I'm
looking for anymore. Hell, I'll take a 50% paycut just to have the
freedom of a life after work.
A life where I can do things like run real fast when my 8 year old son
hears the train whistle so we can make it to the crossing in time to
watch the train. Then, when it's gone, walk the tracks a while to see
what interesting things we can find.
A life where we can walk by a creek and see a box turtle sunning itself
and I can climb right down into the water and play with the turtle, then
realizing it is hurt (missing an arm), bring it home first to a box then
to the bathtub then to his own aquarium. One with a little sulfa turtle
to kill the diseases, and the rocks spread just right so he can move to
the water and back without help. The missing arm really seems to reduce
his mobility.
The point I'm trying to make is, when I was Ms. VP, I would not have had
the energy after work to even care about taking my son to see the train
and then exploring the creek with him. Much less even thought about
brining an injured reptile home to see if we can get him healthy and
stronger.
Fuck work. It just brings you money a maybe a little diversion and
that's all. The REAL stuff should happen when work is over. I'm glad
I've found that out before it's too late.
Smoochless
-wondering if turtles grow back missing appendages-
Loopy
In article <4vvq3s$c...@news.asu.edu>, id...@asuvm.inre.asu.edu (j.) wrote:
: c...@feenix.metronet.com (Dr. Irony) wrote:
: #Ah. My two favorite redheads. How could I resist following this one
: up.
: ha. flattery won't get you anywhere HERE. is it working for you there,
: luce?
I can be receptive to flattery, but he'll have to do better than that.
: #Don't listen to her, Loops. She's an evil ultra-liberal. And besides,
: #the minimalist thang is outta style. You've got to BE somebody. You
: #only go around once, so you must make something of yourself. You
: #must achieve great things or you'll regret, maybe not today, but
: #tomorrow and for the rest of your life.
does this last part sound like anyone we know, Jody?
: #Imagine at the moment of death, when your
: #life flashes before you. You look back on it all and lament because
: #you did accomplish great things.
: if your life is flashing, how long are you gonna have to lament? 30
: seconds or so?
I suspect I'll spend my last 30 seconds shrieking at some member of my
immediate family, "I *told* you I was sick!!!"
: #The ultra-liberals, they want everyone to be
: #underachievers.
i hate to say it, but I think he has a point. chuck never said anything
about material rewards; he was talking about doing one's best. in most
american schools, the cult of self-esteem has all but destroyed respect
for excellence. you can't reward someone for doing well, because that
makes everyone else feel bad.
: hey, if you can achieve peace of mind, what the hell else matters. so,
: you "achieve" a big house in the burbs, drive a big fast car, pay a
: big fat mortgage and a big fat car payment with big fat insurance
: premiums, go to your 9 to 5 job in the shark infested waters of
: corporate america, where you are viewed as a super achiever, then you
: go home every night and swig your ulcer medication out of the bottle
: and fall asleep watching leave it to beaver reruns because that's the
: way things SHOULD be.
hey, that sounds a LOT like someone we know. but you forgot to add that he
will have all of this and yet still be ALONE.
: #Would you settle for a replica of my black velvet Nixon?
: i would, in fact, like a replica of your black velvet nixon. i need a
: new dart board.
I'll be accepting commissions, for a sizable fee.
: #Chuck "THE mindless, heartless conservative"
: j.
: THE knee jerk bleeding heart liberal
: "I don't care if he's dead, I still want to IMPEACH NIXON"
Lucie "THE floundering, faint-hearted fencesitter"
Richard (R.) Bown
PEOPLE! cease and desist.
someone love bombed you freaks or what?
Loopy
In article <501vga$k...@castor.usc.edu>, don...@castor.usc.edu (D. S.
Cunningham) wrote:
: lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) writes:
: >i hate to say it, but I think he has a point. chuck never said anything
: >about material rewards; he was talking about doing one's best. in most
: >american schools, the cult of self-esteem has all but destroyed respect
: >for excellence. you can't reward someone for doing well, because that
: >makes everyone else feel bad.
:
: I still give As (but only a few)
: and an occasional A+
: but you have to *earn* an A from me.
[snip further explanation]
I'm sorry, Donna, I should have specified elementary schools (and to a
lesser extent, junior high and high schools). I was a TA in many courses
in which i had to grade essays and lab reports. it's horrifying how few
students can write well, and they're all smart kids. I think it's because
no one pushed them hard enough when it really mattered.
kefed
On 27 Aug 1996 10:42:55 -0500, c...@feenix.metronet.com (Dr. Irony)
wrote:
>id...@asuvm.inre.asu.edu (j.) writes:
>
>>lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) wrote:
>
>Ah. My two favorite redheads. How could I resist following this one up.
[little snip...Lucie questioning how to use her talent, wise jody
offering her point of view]
>Don't listen to her, Loops. She's an evil ultra-liberal. And besides,
>the minimalist thang is outta style. You've got to BE somebody. You
>only go around once, so you must make something of yourself. You
>must achieve great things or you'll regret, maybe not today, but tomorrow
>and for the rest of your life.
[snip "Liberals are Communists" rant]
Awww Chuck, you're trolling us. We aren't THAT stupid!
Smoochless
D. S. Cunningham
lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) writes:
>[snip further explanation]
>I'm sorry, Donna, I should have specified elementary schools (and to a
>lesser extent, junior high and high schools). I was a TA in many courses
>in which i had to grade essays and lab reports. it's horrifying how few
>students can write well, and they're all smart kids. I think it's because
>no one pushed them hard enough when it really mattered.
I'm in total agreement with you here.
This is the first year I've *required* Strunk and White's
_Elements of Style_ in EVERY class I'm teaching!
They know *nothing* about sentence structure, punctuation,
or writing a thesis, and most of my students are juniors and
seniors!
It really is depressing.
donna
who has one month to prepare--eeek!
ASBU...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
D. S. Cunningham
lm...@cornell.edu (Loopy) writes:
>: #The ultra-liberals, they want everyone to be
>: #underachievers.
>i hate to say it, but I think he has a point. chuck never said anything
>about material rewards; he was talking about doing one's best. in most
>american schools, the cult of self-esteem has all but destroyed respect
>for excellence. you can't reward someone for doing well, because that
>makes everyone else feel bad.
I still give As (but only a few)
and an occasional A+
but you have to *earn* an A from me.
I point out the students who are doing well, and support them
with letters of recommendation and put them forward for
special honors and $$$ awards.
I rarely worry about the students who get Fs, but
I do give them fair warning.
I *do* give more Cs to students who don't really
deserve them than I want to.
This is at that *surfer* school, UCSB, and I am
what Chuck would call an "ultra-liberal".
and not everyone gets a gold medal, a scholarship, or makes honor roll
donna
who hasn't taught a class yet in which it was EASY to get an A
CupCaked
ke...@vnet.net (kefed) wrote about life and work:
>A life where I can do things like run real fast when my 8 year old son
>hears the train whistle so we can make it to the crossing in time to
>watch the train. Then, when it's gone, walk the tracks a while to see
>what interesting things we can find.
>A life where we can walk by a creek and see a box turtle sunning itself
>and I can climb right down into the water and play with the turtle, then
>realizing it is hurt (missing an arm), bring it home first to a box then
>to the bathtub then to his own aquarium. One with a little sulfa turtle
>to kill the diseases, and the rocks spread just right so he can move to
>the water and back without help. The missing arm really seems to reduce
>his mobility.
>Smoochless
>-wondering if turtles grow back missing appendages-
I'm glad you threw in that second paragraph. I was about to
question just what you two *were* looking for on the rairoad
tracks.
Tara Marchand
Lucie called herself a "floundering, faint-hearted fence-sitter," and Tony
jumped on it and wrote:
: She's got to be bi.
When a person uses "outed" as a subject line and calls herself a
fence-sitter, you've gotta wonder. Hmm!
Tara
--
Tara Marchand
ta...@calweb.com http://www.calweb.com/~tara/
pjohnson
kefed (ke...@vnet.net) wrote:
[snip seeing trains and turtles and spending time with your son]
: Fuck work. It just brings you money a maybe a little diversion and
: that's all. The REAL stuff should happen when work is over. I'm glad
: I've found that out before it's too late.
I agree that work != life but it can enhance your life beyond just
providing you with an income. If you are lucky enough to have a job
that you enjoy it can contribute to your overall life. The key is
(IMO) not letting your job become your life and not even let it take
away (or prevent you from enjoying) the other parts of life. That are
importtant (like watching your children grow up). I've also noticed
that some people just can't leave work at the office. And I don't
just mean bringing work home to do I mean bringing your job problems
home and dwelling on them. That's when the job and work start to become
the entire focus of your life.
: Smoochless
: -wondering if turtles grow back missing appendages-
I don't think so, but I could wrong.
--
Paul Johnson
at home again in Charlotte NC
http://www.vnet.net/users/pjohnson/index.html
crescere scientia et gratia
Chris
In article <tara-29089...@news.calweb.com>
ta...@calweb.com "Tara Marchand" writes:
> Lucie called herself a "floundering, faint-hearted fence-sitter,"
Fence-sitting? So that's why the human backside has evolved to the shape
that it is.
--
Chris
Mikki Halpin
I dont think talent is as *much* of a criteria for success in the arts
(if we are suuming success = making at least most of you rliving and
spending most of your time doing your thing). There are lots of very
talented peopel who dont have the drive or the discpline to succeed. Or
they are not socially compatible with some of the rewuisite networking,
gross as that sounds.
I've seen both extremes, peopel who arent that talented but who are so
driven that they manage to get book deals, high paying magazine gugs,
etc. And those who are very gifted, but can only produce a small trickle
of work, and dont bother to send it anywhere or to be a more rigorous
self critic.
I try to stay somewhere in the middle.
m